 Hi Kevin, thanks very much for joining us. Kevin Cullen is the CEO of New South Innovations based at the University of New South Wales. Kevin, what is it that you do at New South Innovations? I'm the head of the technology transfer operation at the University of New South Wales, responsibility for getting the university research put to use in the economy and society. And I hear that, you know, around the traps that you actually turning the whole model on its head that rather than sort of starting from the premise that everything must be sold in order to create value for the university that actually turns out the other way around. Yeah, I would describe resetting the model back to a more rational one where the university's job is to try and get the outputs of publicly funded research into the economy and society to create benefits. It's not about how much money we make, it's how much good we can do. But there's still a component of things that are licensed technology breakthroughs that are licensed, is that correct? That's right. We reckon about 5% of the intellectual property created by any research driven university will have significant commercial value and commercialising that through the traditional licensing of spin-out routes is perfectly appropriate, but the majority of the intellectual... Yeah, what happens to the other 95%? The rest of the IP we want to get into the hands of people who can do something useful with it and we licence it to them for free. Oh, that's very interesting. Is that kind of free for all that coming in help or what kind of conditions do you put on that? The company has to tell us how they're going to use the IP and what benefits they're going to create from it. They have to make sure that they're not going to interfere with their ability to conduct research which is what universities do. And also they have to guarantee technology, the contribution of the university in the successful exploitation of IP. So we want to see a reputational benefit flowing from the application of our research into practice. So how's the model going? Have you actually applied this model to some real technology? Yeah, we started just over a year ago and we've now done 11 licensing agreements on 19 pieces of technology, but more importantly for me, it's driven much more engagement between our academic community and the business world. We're seeing more discussions, we're seeing more projects being developed. We're seeing some creativity happening in a space that used to be more characterised by conflict. It's a terrific model, isn't it? I can see all sorts of applications in our world which is really getting the data from research projects out there and into the hands of people who can reuse it. And just this model of turning things around and saying, okay, the business of the university is to get these things used and in most cases what we're really trying to do is make it clear that it can be used and give some clear terms and conditions by which it can be used and then under particular circumstances where some kind of commercial arrangement is necessary, then we deal with them separately. But there's a default assumption that really first we want to get in our world, we want to get the data out there so that people can use it. So I really think that the model that you're using there has great application in the reuse of data. So thanks very much. Sorry, thanks for that. If people want to find out more about that, we have a full one hour presentation with you on our video. Where else would they find out more about this, Kevin? If they do a Google search on easy access IP, UNSW, they'll come straight to it. Terrific. Well, more power to your arm. I hope it's a terrific fight, no, a fight, but a terrific new way of approaching things and really it can only have terrific benefits for society and also for the university itself. Well done. Thank you very much. All right, see you soon.