 Goed afternoon is the microphone working, yes. I want to have a session which is meant to be interactive. I will give a very short introduction, mostly repeating what I said in my keynote, to get the picture a bit about the organization behind it. I'm the chairman of Blender Foundation. I'm also the director of Blender Institute. That means I have a lot of responsibilities and many different hats. I will try to be in the right responsible position depending on the questions I get. I would especially like to hear from you guys like what do you expect from the organization or what can the organization do better, either whether that's the Blender Foundation or Blender Institute. The main thing people really should know and realize that Blender is not being made by the Blender Foundation of the Blender Institute. The Blender is made at Blender.org. People who are part of the Blender.org community, whether that's coders, or scriptors, or documentors, or website makers, or whoever helps us, but a community is an open community of people, hundreds of people, they are the teams who make Blender possible. We work with module teams, we call that, it's a little part of Blender where you can become a team member or you can become an owner of the module, that means you have responsibilities and you have some freedom to make decisions. You can find all that information on the GetInvolved at Blender.org. There's also two other organizations, that is the Blender Foundation and Blender Institute. The Foundation was started in 2002 to help with the campaign to get the Blender sources released as a group CPL. And since then the Foundation has remained active as mainly a safe, a thing with a door where you can lock your IP and your donations as a safe place for Blender to make sure that there is always a future. You don't want to have Blender being put back in some kind of risky business like it was before. Nobody can buy Blender. I mean, not even the IP from the Blender Foundation because the Blender Foundation is not for sale, it's legally you cannot sell the Foundation even. And even when I would become crazy and start selling stuff, you can bring me to court because the Blender Foundation has statutes which says our public goals and public interest, we have to act in that sense. I can't simply say, ooh, I'm going to support all the desks from now on and then you can, then you can bring me to court and I will most certainly lose this. Plus what people don't know maybe but the Blender Code is not owned by the Blender Foundation. Wat? Fuck! Dat was auto-desk! Peace of paper? Peace of paper? Peace of paper? Peace of paper? Peace of paper? Ok, well, that's... I hope that has been live on the internet. We'll look at the laptop here. Wow, dat was bang. Good, so, er was hype. The Blender... Oh ja, the legal crap about Blender Foundation. Hm? So even if... So even if you would want to, the code of the Blender is owned by the developers, separate developer contributes, can say, I keep it, my copyright and I will bring it as the CPL to Blender. So this Blender Foundation and Blender is continuity, it's safe, but I also want to do some risky stuff. I'm a businessman, I like to do crazy things. I don't like to make a lot of money, but I do like to have fun and do the things I like to do. So you have to make some money to be able to do that. That's why I started to a Blender Institute in 2007, which is... Looking, which is the place where we made BigBug Bunny en Sintel en Joe Francky en The Tears of Steel en The Gooseberry Project en Cameron Anders. We doen training, we do the book publishing, we do all the stuff in Blender Institute to make sure that is a healthy continuous income to support Blender projects, to support myself, to support the websites and everything we do. So those two organizations are of course very important for Blender, but I don't want people to think of the only way things happen or so. There are many ways you can make stuff happen, but I do understand the responsibility. Because if we have the Blender Institute, when I define that we want to do a new film project and we have a number of targets which we want to work on, then those things might likely happen. I'm in a luxury position because all the developers or artists, they say I want to work with you guys, I want to come to Amsterdam. I have a bit of a benefit compared to the NPR people who are sitting there. Nobody is listening to me, I have great ideas, but why is it not happening? I know I have to be responsible for this. We only work on targets which I believe in is in the best benefit of everybody and in the best benefit of Blender itself. The Blender has to stay a really good professional high quality 3D creation suite. That's what we welcome. Now mostly I would like to get some feedback or questions from the audience about what we do. And for the future. Is it working? No it's not working. What is the plan for the future? The Blender Institute, that's what I also mentioned in my keynote. There's some slides here. The Blender Institute is changing a little bit in plans what we do. We want to have more continuity. At least we will do projects and we might even explore to do a commercial film. What we want to be an open source studio. More than a place where we do open movie projects. And then send everybody home and then do another project. I think that continuity is important for us to be able to grow and to get really the best people in the world to work with us and with Blender. The foundation has no plans. Apart from making sure that all the facilities will be perfectly working for everybody. But it's an open system. What I found kind of amazing at the talk yesterday from Francesco and Pablo was that they were very much with the Blender ID tying together all the services of the network and the certified trainers and all that. I was wondering if that was an outspoken strategy from the foundation or from people at the institute or if it's just happening. It seems very centralized in a way. I'm not saying it's not in a bad way. It's alright. The Blender ID is not meant to be some kind of evil Google overting what everybody has to get it otherwise you can't use Blender. But we do have the problem that Blender.org websites we have a whole rack of service and they are running like 20 or 30 websites already. With all the blogs and all the things and all the websites and the developer stuff and the wiki stuff and the network and name everything is complicated. The proposal was to simplify that a bit and make sure that if you are locked in once like to buy a conference ticket or to subscribe to be a speaker or to a vision in the cloud or when you do a donation or the development fund all those things that you only have to remember your password once and then you are locked in. Blender.org login facilitator is it. Of you never know what might happen I mean there's people who want to have secure Blender files or you want to be able to sign things. For security is a problem but it's really we have this crappy feature in Blender that you have to click in the header if you want to have a non-secure Blender file to work which is still something we have to fix. Did Daniel kick you for that everyday? And is there a solution? Ja. Wow. En is there a solution? Wacht het hier griechig met jou? Nee. Allerlijk. Dat is de Ja, was toch een geweld. Wie is het? Dank u. Do you publish the balance sheet of the Blender foundation like the revenues and spending and where the money came from and how it was spent? We should. I know we should. It's nothing to hide. The Blender foundation should be public. I did it once or twice and then I kept forgetting nobody asked me about it so I was like who cares. We do have a public the development fund income is public you can see the statistic it's coming in monthly but what I have a little bit of a problem with is publishing exactly what we pay or what kind of support we get to developers but I think that's really privacy information like what the developer works for 20 cents per day or for 2000 euros per day but it's something that's between me and the developer so we don't post that kind of information. But all together we should do that. I try to even for this talk to get this information but we have to remind you send me an email and I will do it. Is there any question you have I can tell you I know the numbers a bit do you want to know how many millions we are making? We don't. No. I think it was 120.000 150.000 between that last year in this old donation income donation and development fund gifts and the institute in average between 400.000 and 700.000 in euros that's like in dollars a bit more. Just a very specific question about Blender ID which is awesome but wouldn't it be possible such that this Blender ID also works for mailing lists like I have subscribed like seven mailing lists and I have seven passwords I don't remember them so it would also be awesome if it was linked to the Blender ID That's a good point. I have another. The whole list system is run by a software called mailman mailman has their own ideas about passwords it's not very secure mailman will email your passwords they don't like system that email passwords all the time it's a bit the same is for the developer login if you want to be able to commit on the Blender code that's also not the Blender ID dat is also best to keep a separate system sometimes it's better to keep a separate system but you are right we will try to get as much possible in one login system yesterday you talked about Blender default hopefully I got it right that there should be some default setting for example for VFX guys or maybe even game developers is there any plan already of a roadmap for this I mentioned it in some talks what I believe in personal but we had more developers we should support workflows better and we have to stop making a single default with switch everybody because Blender is far too big there is no way you can find an empty shortcut if somebody invents a sticky key they suddenly say oh let's use it immediately and then nobody can configure their own sticky keys we have to trim it down and make it easier for people to say the default I believe should be really really small hardly anything we all agree on that you should be able to have to be able to demo Blender from Squatch the further you add your own key maps on top of that but as I said this talk is not about Blender it's not about making Blender this is not about making Blender this is about facilitating teams to be able to make Blender I'm really interesting about the Monca project and I would like to know how the Blender Institute intend to help external studios on teams to create film so you said it's a aim for the Blender Institute but how do you have an idea of how we can for example apply for a movie I mean I think people have been trying to do crowdfunding for film a lot and in general it works really bad it's really difficult as an independent filmmaker as an animator or even without games it's getting better but for film if you want to get your money I think Tube might be the biggest with like 30.000 or something in the end 40.000 dollars and for the rest it goes down to 15, 10, 5 which is not a lot it's a difficult issue but that's why when I was contacted by the team in India with their open movie project they wanted to do a crowdfunding tour they wanted to copy the same system as we've been doing maar when I was looking at it and talking with them about it they also agreed that they probably would not get that much it might sell 200 or 100 because they are not known and nobody knows them so why would you give them money is it reliable do you actually get the DVD or not those kind of issues are important on the other hand we decided to do a more permanent subscription system we tried to get our loyal supporters we really liked the projects we do to say ok I will pay a little bit per month and for that money I want you guys to do awesome stuff like making film testing things, hiring blender developers and really help bringing blender further and if that's fun to get speaking off we can also support other projects I thought it would be a good idea to test it first with the why back guys in india they have their film in the blender cloud it has to be open open content and creative commons it has to be done with blender of course and then we will see how that works and if a lot of people appreciate it we get good feedback from the users there we can try other projects and so if you have projects you can talk to me about it but for the time being we can't do that every week of self we also don't have a lot of money for that are you planning to make some training serious again at the blender institute and if you are not why do you mean training in blender institute we did that a lot but I was mostly in between the film projects we didn't have a lot of people working there on a film so we could use the studio to do that running and at the moment studio is full so there is no space for a training that's why it hasn't been planned and I really think there is need for it there is a lot of need for a training this is a business opportunity I would like to share with everybody training is business you got this for it it's not that bad to do some people really like it even I get a lot of it some people really like to help explain how blender works do it make publicity or mail me that we can help you making PR that you can be found at the training institute certified trainer or the blender network how do you become a certified trainer you go to blender.org and there is a education slash certification Pablo and Francisco we handelen in the certification too so you can talk to them a little bit this is a complete online system there is no physical need to do things you can get through the whole process by submitting your material some evidence that you actively know blender stuff like that after that you are supposed to have a freelance subscription at the blender network in tact certified trainer so people can find you don't you think that with the certified trainer a bit the community starts to close now a blender is an open source software and it's open to discussions about the techniques online and many people get their information on the artist for example so when now this professional training is starting or if delivery develops more don't you see that this is a bit of counter acting you mean whether the certification would work against the openers or against the open community where everybody can participate in this quality of the public I mean a certification doesn't mean anything that you are qualified or good it's not a quality thing it's simply a business facilitator for trainers who need it because many times institutions or governments they want to see that paper I'm officially certified by the blender foundation to get this that's all, it's not for selling themselves to you or to other people that's not meant to be that way if you are certified only means that you are a serious person who wants to get into training paid by institutions or governments that's all so all the other things like what do you have to know like you have to know all the 1000 atoms 5000 blender fluid empathicofuture all that stuff we don't really bother with that and that would be also good to have like training online where people can go through steps that they can get a modeling badge or a simulation badge or an animation rigging a badge or how you call those things some kind of standardized training that's what I really would like to see happen but that's a lot of work and we don't have people on board who are into this know how to make it I just mean the effort of many people go more in this paid training system or more in the public available documentation system this is the point I mean the public documentation system is a talk to this afternoon a tool there will be a documentation session to talk about that and for the blender foundation is essential to support good public free documentation on the wiki and other systems which is available for everybody to use or to put in books or do whatever you like with it hello there during the whole conference we saw many special implementations of blender to different fields either were scientific either were industrial shouldn't we gather all these people either to a thread either to a form section either to somewhere even in this conference could we make a small meeting about the application specialists of blender for instance somebody uses blender for CNC engineering somebody uses for 3D printing another one finds an application for blender that's used in any visualization effects in chemistry in research all these people come mainly either from research facilities either from industry so these meetings might prove a very good status a basis for people that are searching there are blender developers or they are graphic artists and they are basically looking for a job or they are they were left out of their business because they the job opportunity they had before is poor so that meeting could go could be a solution to their problem because they will fill them with ideas of what is going on in the world in blender applications also the people that are in there they can combine some skills and not be searching for one another so they can make also new opportunities what do you think about that Tom? I think the blender conference is actively a meeting for professionals and researchers and users of blender developers to make sure there is interaction and we do things together but there is no formal other session yesterday I think from Render Street we wanted to probably to say it but a lot of companies have issues with getting into the market because blender is not very well established as a support system for example because a company says we have a blender bank and then they start blaming the render farm and then the render guy says but it's not our problem it's their problem or it's blender's problem there is no real infrastructure in the blender community or in the blender ecosystem where you can hire professional support although sometimes it pops up but it disappears a bit and we should have that more visible maybe that's also what you mean so you might want to talk more to the professionals in the community and make sure that they know the needs and they know how to work together to find out business together that they can help out and become a nice and fruitful company what? Just want to say that we're not pointing fingers at blender we're trying to solve the problem first and then point the fingers at blender but this is no no no I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding but the question is who should be responsible for developing the ecosystem around blender because what's happening is that as I told you yesterday there are people coming up as more professionals start using blender people coming up are not quite part of the community they don't know how to come on IRC or how to submit a bug on the developer site in my opinion there should be somebody concerned and focusing on developing the community and the question is who would that be I hope that blender network would help with that to blender network blender network.org blender network is meant to bring the professionals together and you should kick them to say wow we want to have a forum or a mailing list is that a list okay get a forum so people can do a call we want to have a support business guys or how are we going to establish this in my preference I know I've been asked this many times five years ago six years ago if you look at how other open source projects evolve especially when they got a bit bigger you could decide to go like how a canonical is working with Ubuntu which is that you build a servicing business you centralize the whole project and you say okay the whole development of blender will be happening in a blender institute and we will involve control toons and developers and we will hire the whole brand start a business with 20-25 people and we call that the blender company I could but I decided not to do that A because I really well I don't think I even can I'm not a typical developer person I'm a creative I like to make things my passion is in having blender to work and not having coders like a whole room of coders working on blender doesn't sound to me like a very interesting project I want to have coders and artists to work together right that's a very good approach it was a question sorry I wasn't saying what you should do but now that this is the philosophy and it's a very good one it shouldn't be somewhere in the foundation or in the institute that should kick things to the right path not manage things but steer them somehow don't do that he hates me nice guys they are ready for it they are ready for it they are interested they might be smiling nice but you can kick them they are happy with it ah come on ok want I understand the problem and I think a couple of years ago when the blender network started I added a little note and probably never nobody has ever seen it but it said that the blender institute is open for support contracts by other network members at that time at this moment I don't know but at that time we did two things even we did a little project where you could hire a blender developer to put on some job but at the moment we don't have enough developers we don't really need the money of course we always need money but we need money for our current project not for other projects but that is not a thing that moves on but I would still like to promote businesses who can do the Lumicool and they here where are we the jana and this is the finnish company there is three blender developers in it Nathan, letwary is doing the integration of the cycles engine in the rhino nubus editor the jana they did the patecos code and they did some other projects but they both know how blender works en ze hebben een business. Zullen ze het doen? En als ze daar op de blauwe netwerk zijn, zullen ze het werken op Denish. Ik ben zeker dat er een paar andere companies al daarin zijn en willen echt omhoog zijn. Wie zou willen omhoog zijn als een consultant op Denish? 1, 2, 3, 4. Natuurlijk. Ah, consultant. Je loopt me heer, je loopt me heer. Je loopt me heer, je loopt me heer. Je loopt me heer, je loopt me heer, je loopt me heer. Je ziet. Dus misschien moeten we starten een blenderconsultant.org of iets. Of om dit te supporten dat het meer bevrijd is. Of misschien kan het een taak zijn en dat het heel prominente maakt. Want wat een typische consultant-shop kan zijn, is dat je naar de consultant gaat om te zeggen, oké, ik heb deze idee voor blender. En ik wil het in de volgende release hebben. Hoe gaan we dat doen? En de consultant zegt, ah, ah, dat is interessant. Dus we gaan dit en dat doen. En dan hier, en dan propoes je papier. En dan massage een beetje dingen. En dan doe je dat. En dan krijg je een verschillende blender. Dat wil je. Of ik heb een boek. Dat kan je in een uur. Want het hele project is hoe je deze boek kan fixen. Om de consultant te doen, dan kun je een kikking doen. En dan zeg je, ah, kijk naar de boek nu en fixe het. We hebben 200 euro's. Dat is wat een consultant kan doen. Dat soort dingen zou ik jullie willen denken om te doen. Je zei gisteren over blender 101. Is er al een strategie of een startpunt mailinglist of iets van dat? Of is het gewoon een idee voor de moment? Het is nog alleen een project waarin ik haar feedback wil. Er is geen vormige organisatie. Ik wil eerst weten of ze het vragen. De mensen denken, oh wow, dat is leuk. En dan mail ik me en dan weet ik hoe ik het interesseer. Wat wil je doen? Hoe wil je haar feedback? Hoe wil je het supporten? Hoe wil je het ontwikkelen? Hoe wil je het geld geven? Hoe wil je het promoteren? Hoe wil je de visibiliteit vinden? Ik heb het niet leuk om een project te starten met een team waarin ik niet weet of je het kan doen. Maar als we dit als project aanwezigen, zal het gebeuren. Hoe voel ik het in mijn eigen busy schedules en wie gaat het doen? Ik bekijk voor een paar mensen die 100% confidence hebben en dat ze het echt kunnen verwijzen. Het 101 project is een paar dingen. Maar het is vooral een probleem van een concept van een blanding versie die 12 tot 14 jaar oud werkt in het blanding. Je kunt zo een project in het blanding vervolgen. Het is niet een speciaal versie maar het is vooral een interface code we hebben. 2.5 project, Python, apis ontwikkeling, echt een system om te controleren van dit. En dan proberen we 99% of efficiëntie en doen iets zoals de Westerdijk ook. In Python kun je alweer build interfaces maar het is limit. Je kunt e.g. denken om een interface met 3 pictures een monkeer een print en een moving operation. En dan kun je 8 monkeers in het 3d view printen. Je moet een manier te creëren en als je dat kunt doen voor kids, kun je ook voor animaties of gamemakers of occasional user of 3d printen. Ik wil meer workflow orientatie doen. Voor de 101 is ik wil een blanding in schools want in educatie, in high schools willen ze allemaal 3d nu. En ik wil niet dat alleen in hun handen. Ze proberen het met 1, 2, 3d dat is het meest horreste ding. Maar Blender en Open Source en wat we kunnen doen is veel meer kracht. Blender kan de hele rote map niet alleen als je 1-1 proces hebt dat is makkelijk voor die kleine 2-5% van talenten die het leuk zijn kan ze de schijnen en dan maken ze filmen of gamen of wat ze willen. Dat is onbedienbaar. Heb je probleemsteaties waar Blender wordt downloaderd en in welke landen wordt het populair en hoe de communitie wordt ontwikkeld? We posten altijd website-staties online. Ik moet het wel vinden. Ik tweede het en zoiets. Ja, nu heb je gewoon tweeten. Ja, ik weet het niet. Je moet me op Twitter volgen en dan weet je alles. Er is een ton Rosendal op Twitter. Ja, iedereen volgt me? Oké. Ja, maar ik post het als je gaat... Is het daar? Can you show it on the computer when I'm talking? It's not going into the... I always forget because those numbers are too big. But there's a lot. There's a lot of physics on the website. It goes into the millions. And there's millions of downloads and we usually stop counting because the statistics take too much place on the disk. I suppose my... What I really was asking was where other than The Netherlands is a hotspot of Blender or are there any interesting communities developing that you're surprised by? The Netherlands is totally not the hotspot for the Blender. There's one Blender user in the Netherlands I think, maybe two, three, four. Dutch people are a little bit weird, you know. We have a tiny little country and everybody is still sitting on their own little islands and if you are 10 kilometers away this is outside of bicycle distance then we don't meet and then we say, oh, that's too far away. I don't want to talk to you guys. You're going to find it? No, I don't want to do that. I don't want to leave. Oh, you could show it. I don't want to know the world maybe with the statistics. The latest, latest, the greatest, the greatest is not there. A 3D Blender is international. If you look at how statistics work for visitors and users The Netherlands is only 15,000, 16 million people France is 70 million In France you will find 8 times more users than in the Netherlands. That's how it goes, but it's not like we have a suspiciously big Dutch Blender community. We do have a suspiciously big community in Germany Blender is extremely popular though more than an average and the other is Brazil for some reason Brazil is really, really, really Blender minded All the oldest Blender website Aside from Blender.org at that time is the Brazilian community website and it's still there since 1998 already very cool I don't understand why that's important I sit alone in Sweden on Countryside and I'm connected to Andrew Price in Korea and I'm connected to Tom and I'm connected to other people so it's the advantage of Blender is that it's not necessary national anymore Of course it's nice to meet once in a while that's what you probably mean Do you think of the idea to make crowdfunded features like some people wish to have near functionality in Blender and they are willing to give especially money to that if you would do that Dat start a crowdfunded feature film in April The Gooseberry Project another one or Blender Oh, that kind of feature sorry, I missed that kind of feature but then you have to repeat the question but I am totally confused What do you think of if some website would make like crowdfunded People started several times if you can buy a feature we are voting with their money so they say developers say I call this for 1000 euros and then you collect the money and wait until you get it but in general if you have discussions in the open source community I am on a list with foundation boards and other foundations like Mozilla to open office and they all agree that this system totally fails it's a really bad system so you could try Google Summer of Code is a little bit like it is also a problematic system but if you really say I have amount of money and I want to connect that to a feature you got a very weird dynamics because then who says that that feature is really good because usually if people pay for it that doesn't mean that it is good right so then you have to tell a team of people who don't have to review the code but the code sucks but I got paid for it but it sucks then what this is a difficult system so what you need to do is to help people to make good contributions and that is usually not something you can pay for that's so easy you can support that's why I have to blend the development fund which works 10 times better than a feature driven funding 300, 400 members of the fund thanks to the fund we can hire developers on bigger things and then we know that the moment we do hire this developer like for the freestyle project we hire the guy for 6 months to finish things and then he has time to do it and do something good and we can help him make sure that what he does is ending up in blender which is I think a better system I was just wondering about the Google Summer Code when you mention it do you feel it's a success because for me it looks like there's 10 students and we only see one of them and how many of the developers stick around and keep contributing it's always a bit problematic it did work for us really well so there's many success cases I think if you look at the past year we selected only 7 we selected 9 but 2 of them were doubles and they left to another project but the 7 projects we did I think 3 or 4 have been or are successfully completed but there's also 3 that probably are not going to be finished and are not good enough and there's one so yeah does it work and for blender it's maybe for projects like Acrita or Gimp or projects that don't have so much organization over the behind it it works much better but they can get finally somebody paid but for us we already do pay like 10 people to work on blender so it's like so how does it fit in in the future so it depends really also on the students so you can't predict it either sometimes great people come in the future and then suddenly I have to assign blender foundation people or the people who work for the institute as a mentor on the students to work on stuff paid by Google and Google pays them and then it doesn't end up in blender we predict it either sometimes great people come in like popping out of nowhere and we also had to flow it in blender thanks to Google summer of code and you can see the freestyle was a Google summer of code project many really good summer of code projects but the algorithm is like 20-30% I think that's a really good one my money is Google's money could you give a bit of an update on what's coming out of what's happening with red current at the moment so the Google the gooseberry project was started with a number of goals one of them was to make a good system to have many studios to collaborate and as a code name I had red current but at the moment the red current project is actively blender cloud and it sounds a bit nicer so there's already a product and we are working on making sure that all those functionalities we want to be able to make a film will be there in this cloud system so that people who have accounts they can review it and look at it and play with it and later hopefully we have enough power to give them access to other own projects or to put projects there and who could up it in the farms those kind of things so the red current project has been funded by the European Union and thanks to that we do have budget to hire 2 or 3 extra developers and they are working in the blender institute and they are happily doing lots of blender work I was wondering something with brush now working for Arnold do you think this will encourage new developer to start to contribute to blender because they see someone who started by making code for blender and now is paid in one of the most advanced I mean no hey it's quite a big achievement for him to unfold the blender I really wished but I would rather have a breakthrough to work for us of course but yes blender is a great start of your career and now in the end I mean the big companies have a bigger budget and they have bigger projects so I really like it to see when people go to a company like Arnold project when people go to pizza or google or whatever of course they should do that you don't have to work for blender forever if you start as a developer with blender you learn things sure that is useful in many other situations just another question if you have for example made an add-on or something like this how you can get this into the trunk version or some of the trunk versions of blender perhaps you made an add-on or something like this for blender and how do you get this add-on into the trunk version or something like this I should give that to Campbell he knows everything about that ok we have a python mailing list and you can mail the list and ask for a view currently the whole system is kind of broken and not working because there's very there's very very few people who will review your add-ons I'm one of them but so many of the add-ons I read are such bad code and I can't go through and spend the time to go through all and explain why it's bad so I think we really would like to have someone dedicated to work on add-ons add-on bug fixes, managing the community talking to the developers because at the moment I don't really have enough time to devote to this and it's a little pity the same is for if you have an add-on or if you have any blender patch we have hundreds of submissions in the tracker waiting to be reviewed a code review is not really funny do you like to do that do you like to do that do you like to do that perhaps maybe we should tell people who put our patch in the tracker that they first have to review ten other patches before they are going to review themselves I don't know we have to find a better way to get a better project running to review things like add-ons or code we do use blender development fund money to hire people to work on the trackers for example we have Bastien, Bastien Montagne Bastien look at him, he is not fixing every bug in blender at the moment he is really good, thank you we have I am talking to a couple of others younger developers who come in they seem like they understand the code they can get a nice temporary job to help fixing bugs and reviewing patches that's probably the only way to do it en I rather give development fund money to support in a way that then people can have fun coding code for it's is for coding cool stuff we don't have to get paid right we have to get paid for doing the boring stuff like fixing bugs and reviewing I would suggest to have a very comprehensive manual of photo write add-ons for code for blender because it saves a lot of amount for reviewing code there it was a suggestion a suggestion for to have a manual how to submit an add-on and how to avoid bad coding if you would like to be active in the development sorry in the documentation table we have a doc board mailing list it would be really good to have more people who are showing up and taking up a little bit of responsibilities for organizing the other documentation was a great idea but ideas don't make it happen usually so you have to find a people so are you going to make it happen but you are making art yourself right you are an artist you don't want to be an author good idea that's how you start I have to wrap it up I have to get my own lunch and there is a guy hey guy let's stop that's the Sherman meeting now right so thank you all for listening we won it we won it we won it we won it we won it we won it we won it we won it