 I'm also going to allow for the closed captioning. Excellent. And I am just going to quickly send. I know that even will not be here. And I'm just going to send this bridges. And I just miss bridges just text me. She said she's having problems with her iPad. So she's going to continue to try to get in. Okay. Great. Okay. Excellent. All right. So let me go ahead then. I'm going to go ahead and call this meeting to order. I am calling the. January 23rd African heritage reparations. We're meeting to order at 2. Oh, 2pm pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021. This meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance at members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can access the meetings in real time via technological means. This meeting is being recorded and I am going to take a moment to do a sound check here for our members. And I will start with welcome Dr. Shabazz. Yes, I can hear and be. And I see everyone. Great. And you can be heard. And Hala. Hala present. Can you hear me? I can hear you well. Thank you. Dr. Rhodes. I can hear and see everyone. Great. And we can hear you and Jennifer. I know I could hear you a second ago, but let's. Okay. Great. So just for the record here, we do have kind of a unique day happening today. It's a snow day for, for many of the schools. The town hall is going to be closing at three o'clock today. So we're going to have a limited time to meet today. We still have to do the usual kind of things that we do like public comment. I would ask folks who may, I haven't, I've got a look, but if there are folks in the audience, just to please keep in mind. That we have a limited time to meet today. And if we, and then we'll be meeting again next Monday. With more time to meet. So I was hoping that we could begin this meeting. Just quickly asking Jennifer. If she would give us an update or just a little summary of how the. There were a couple of events that happened in town last week for Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King junior day. There was an event that happened through the town. And then there was a day of racial healing that also occurred. And then Jennifer attended the mass municipal conference as well this weekend. And so Jennifer, anything that you'd like to share about any of those events, this would be a great time. Thank you. All three events were well attended and excellent. The racial healing. We did one in the morning and for staff over at the Jones library in the Woodbury room. And then we held one in the evening time over at the Amherst survival center, which was very, very well attended. So that's great. It was just a very. Very beginning conversation on race and identity. So there was a series of small questions. People broke up into small groups and had facilitators crests and some of the members from the core equity team here at the town were facilitators of each, you know, of the different tables that were. We had nine tables total, I believe all nine were full. And so each table had a facilitator at it. Which was really great. It's good. The MLK event was fantastic. It was well attended. And the MMA annual conference was fantastic as usual. A lot of networking and of this Sunday, we have our, the town's first in person lunar new year celebration. So I hope that folks can come that'll be at the Amherst regional middle school cafeteria and starts at 11 a.m. And then on the 1st of February, we'll have our flag raising ceremony for black history month follow. And that's all we do on the 1st. And then throughout the month, we do different activities and celebrations and events. Awesome. Thank you, Jennifer. And I want to welcome Ms. Bridges. Ms. Bridges looks like she may still be connecting to audio. So we'll give that a second. And Alexis welcome Alexis. Can you hear us? Thank you. Okay, great. We can hear you too. Jennifer, just a quick follow up on the racial healing. Is that like, I understand that that was a national holiday. And so was the town provided with some. Guidance in terms of how they might facilitate the, and is there a plan to continue those. You know, between now and the next national day of racial healing. Yeah, so our guidance came from it's the Kellogg foundation. Who? Who oversees who sponsors and we use their, they have an entire. Guideline for having these conversations. So we followed that guideline. And so we will be having an event every other month. We're hoping that in between that, every other month that we can hire a consultant to do that one month that Emily and I are not able to, because what we don't want to have is get people engaged and then not have follow up, which is hard to do it weekly. It's hard to do it biweekly because of timing of everyone's time. Absolutely. Welcome Ms. Bridges. Can you hear us? Yes, I can. I don't know what goes on with this, but I figured it out. I don't know what it is. My email on my phone comes just fine. I go on here and email from two weeks ago. So I figured it out. Thank you. Well, I'm glad. I'm glad that you made it good to see you. And we can hear you well. So that's good. Awesome. I'm going to have to leave a bit early, but I'll give you a, I'll give you a signal. I'll text Jen or you or someone. That's perfect. And you missed me say that town hall is actually closing at three o'clock today because of the storm. So, and so we will, we will have a limited meeting today anyway. So just to give you that. Okay. Jennifer, just keep us in the loop in terms of, or keep us abreast anyway, that this will to support that ongoing racial healing work that the town is doing, if at all, if there's any way that we can do that, please keep us attuned to that. Great. I sure will. Thank you. Awesome. All right. So unfortunately, let me just quickly review our agenda for today. The agenda and the pressing items are the survey. And then we have also, I wanted to give us the opportunity to. Do a little bit of a debrief on the listening session. And maybe we might tie that into discussion on two upcoming events one that has already been established with Amherst neighbors and one potential event with the League of Women Voters. So we'll, I'll give it a little bit of an update on both of those. Dr. Rhodes has on your agenda. If you look, there's item E. It says courage. And this is Dr. Rhodes will be presenting that item. So I'm going to check in with Dr. Rhodes in a second. To see in terms of our timing. Dr. Rhodes, is that something that you would certainly like to get to today? Just so I can prioritize our. It is not a priority, but if. Whenever a meeting would allow for it, I would love to do it. Okay. Yeah, that's great. And I think if we can do it today, that would be good because I know it's going to be great. You know, fresh for you and so in terms, let's start with a survey. So Chris Spitzer was supposed to join us today, but she has three children at home due to the snow. So what she has asked is that we compile a list of questions. Based on the scope of work that was in your packet several weeks ago and that we reviewed as a committee. I, so the. Dr. Rhodes had already been in touch with Kerry throughout the months about the survey. So one or the other, or both of us will be in touch with Kerry to review these questions that the committee has and then to bring them back. Bring those answers back to the committee at next week's meeting. I also sent this scope of work to our town manager. I'm waiting. I copied Pamela young on that. So I'm waiting on the town manager to respond to whether he might have some questions about the scope of work. And then in terms of moving forward with getting it. Getting the contract sign, which is what town manager Backelman would be. Be the one signing the contract. So I hope to have an update for you all next Monday on that. I really would like for us to be able to move forward with this as soon as we can. So let's start with that and see. Yes, Jennifer. I'm, I'm doing minutes here. So I just want to make sure that I have this correct. The contract that you're asking Paul is for. The Donahue Institute and the. And then creating a survey for us. Yes, exactly. And this might help. I'm going to bring up. The actual, I'm going to share my screen and I'll bring it up here. So that you have the title right in front of you. Let's see here. Okay. So I should be able to share screen. Let's do this. Can everybody see my. Screen now. Yes. Great. So I'm going to just open the floor now for discussion on this scope of services questions, comments. I'm going to be taking a list of questions from committee members that will go directly to curry. And then she'll be providing us answers. To those questions before our next meeting next Monday. So I'm looking for hands. Could you pull your screen down all the way of the letter so we can see more. You got it. Yep. Would you like me to go to task two or just leave it here for a second. Well, and also if you could just expand the pain. Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah. We could see more at one time. Thank you. Did that work? Okay. So again, this is going to be more of an informal. Study. We're going to survey. We're going to. If we move forward with this, we would use the various lists that we have. So we have the black assembly of Amherst mass. We have our own inclusion portal, which is growing. Quite a bit. And then all of the other sort of ways that we have to reach people through reparations for Amherst and other ways that we have established throughout our time working together. Dr. Rhodes. Yeah. The question is. Are we going in this, in this survey, which I applied in terms of how it's going to be done. And yesterday is a survey of convenience. And it's not, you know, a quantitative one, but it is something that will serve our purposes neatly. The only question I have is how broad and how deep do we want this to be? I. Are we just going to send this out to. The African-American community. Are we going to send this out to the African-American community? Are we going to send this out to the African-American community? Are we going to send this out to the African-American community? And if so, is that something we wish to do? Do we wish to include a wider, the wider community of Amherst in some form or another? What are the pros and cons of doing that or not doing it? So those are two really big questions for me. And somehow we, you know, we don't have to answer the questions for ourselves, but I would like to remind you. Us that in our charge, we were to reach out to various communities. And Amherst various groups, cooperate with various groups, check in with various groups. And it seems to me that if we're going to do this survey, we're going to be able to respond to serve our needs and meet some of that criteria that we should consider ways in which to include them. And they can be included as a matter of convenience as this is. You know, we could, we could send a survey out to selected groups within town. For instance, the town council members of the town council. Members of various subcommittees in town, et cetera. And really without increasing the cost very much more because the cost is in creating the survey, not in sending it out, given the ways that are indicating which this thing is going to be distributed, which is one other thing is ensuring that one is distributed, especially if we're hitting the African American community that is distributed in such a way that a wide as possible. Exposure happens. Thank you, Dr. Rhodes. Okay, Dr. Shabazz. Yeah, so my comment is along similar lines. I'll just without being redundant just state that really there are three tasks involved here. Task one is development of the survey itself. And I do believe Umdi could be helpful in getting us to get a manageable set of questions of doing some cognitive interviews in the way that that it's suggested piloting, making sure that the questions are understandable or legible or intelligible before they go out broadly. I like all of that, that process. So there's development, but then there is data collection, there's collecting and getting a certain response rate to the survey once it is developed. And then thirdly, there is the analysis of the data. Okay, so the critical one that is not clear in this scope of services and is left then to us and to. I think to be clear about as we take it to the next step with Umdi if we're doing that, and that is the data collection piece. Okay. This just, this doesn't project what the data collection piece would look like as laid out here. And without knowing that, then we don't know what we don't know how far it's going out and what kind of bench how we can benchmark what would be a successful collection. We need to think about the period when once all of the development phase is done, and we've got a nice complete set. We need to think about once we launch. If we're launching entirely online with just a Qualtrics, you know, here's the link go in answer the questions and online and be done. If we're talking about some paper for folks that need it in that format. If we're talking about it going out in the mail if we're talking about some going out and some door to door actions, or in or at the library or at certain places people can come and get copies and and turn it in right there. Someone's there to collect it at the Jones library. You know, we've got to think about the the the collection piece, because it's not in this document, and we could approve this, but then we don't know what the collection strategy is or it comes back to us to once the instrument is developed, it comes back to us to execute the the the collection piece. And, and to me, that is really, you know, the development piece is good and I think it could help the analysis piece. Yeah, we probably could get it got enough brain power around here that we could analyze the results ourselves but but I'm not averse to thinking about getting some help on the analysis, but but really the collection strategy is is what's what's not in here that we've got to we've got to figure out we've got to discuss. Thank you Dr. Shabazz. Dr. Rhodes, I think your hand went up for a second time there so I'm checking in with you. Yeah it is. Dr. Shabazz, when I say collection, I'm looking up here on it and it says the questionnaire will be distributed and distributed using Qualtracks. Now I'm assuming are you talking about collection being the same as distribution because this is saying an online survey tool which means it's going to be done online. The town and AHRA will be responsible for distributing the survey through various channels that is not collection that's just putting it out there and distributing it and then because it will be done online, the responses are coming in online. This means that's the data collection technique that's going to be used unless we are going to be thinking about doing it outside of the scope that Kerry is proposing here and if we are going to be doing that we need to get that discussed and settled now. Okay I saw Jenner, I'm going to go to Alexis but first I'm going to go to Jennifer because she may need to clarify something. Jennifer? It's been a while since I tried talking and muted at the same time. So I just, I always have concerns when surveys are just done online because it seems very inaccessible to everyone. Often if we have a paper version then staff will take the time to input it so that we do have it online but we have to have a copy version. We have to have a hard print and then I don't know what we are doing well. So we definitely need to have that hard copy. And I would add that we can, we should establish a collection site list or a distribution site list including the library and other sites. I think this is an excellent opportunity for us to partner with the bid and the chamber. I think it's a good opportunity for us to have a distribution site list where they have a brick and mortar location downtown. That could be another place that folks can pick it up obviously town hall. So we would want to establish a list where paper copies were available. And then Jennifer I think what I heard you say is that staff would then input that. And I think it's very important. You know, like our human rights complaint form, often people don't want to do that. Form online. And so they'll come and they'll talk. And then I have them sign off that this is what they said, but then I go in and enter the information so that we can have it there. So that's, I think is very important piece of it. And I think I would want to talk to Paul about that in terms of if there's going to be additional staff time required. And I would say that it's pretty sensitive information. So it's not like we want to just have anybody. You know, so. Oh, please go ahead, Jennifer. So I was also just going to say that if there's a flyer, so we can put those up in the restaurants with a QR code. So that people can link right to the, you know, like I know, crazy noodles has a board where you can just put stuff up and a lot. You know, everybody loves crazy noodles and Amherst. So that's a good popular restaurant to do something like that. Absolutely. Like the laundry mat over here in North Amherst, the Amherst house of pizza. There's so many places we can do. We can do that. One question. Go ahead, Dr. Before we move on. How are we going today? Or the next time we meet. Come together and make a decision in terms of. How we are choosing to distribute this. I hear. Yeah. Conversations around, you know, we can do this or we can do that. But we haven't made any kind of formal. Vote on in terms of how we would like to do that. But we haven't made any kind of formal. Vote on. In terms of how we would like to do that. But we haven't made any kind of formal. Vote on in terms of how we wish to do this. Yeah. Dr. Dr. Rhodes, I was going to come back to that as I think we, I would like to, before the end of this meeting, have that established. So I have the two questions that you asked noted. And so let's we'll stick with. The distribution question, if that's what Ms. Bridges and Alexis have to. Respond to, and then we're going to specifically speak to your questions about who this is going to, is it limited to the African heritage community, African-American community, or is it going town-wide and potentially can it go to both, but maybe in the survey itself be broken up so that folks who are African-American have some. You know, unique questions. So let me go to Ms. Bridges who's patiently been waiting. And so Ms. Bridges, please. I guess I wanted to clear something up with Jen. Jen, when you're saying. A lot of people don't want to do it online. And they rather have a paper copy. They don't want to do it online. They don't want to do it online. They, they, they, maybe they feel uncomfortable or whatever. Maybe I'm a little confused, but what is the difference of. If you take their information and you put it in anyway. With, with their name. They're not doing it. And some people don't have access to. Oh, it's not that they feel uncomfortable. It's just that they don't have access to do it. So they don't mind if you put it in with their name on it. They don't mind if you put it in with your name on it. Yeah. Something similar. And also to further clarify Ms. Bridges, they'll have anybody who. Submits a response will have the option to either include their name or be anonymous. Okay. So it's really about access, making sure that folks who might not have access to a computer or don't want to do it that way. Can do it. And if they do it by paper, they can do it by phone. So, they can do it by phone. So if they want to include their name, which I think we might get quite a bit of people. And you'll have then you'll have, you'll still have all the information you need. Exactly. With or without their name. Okay. All righty. Lexis. Jennifer said what I was going to say, but yeah, I, I really, I feel strongly about the paper thing, which I personally would distribute this. It is way easier for like being connected to the community that I am. It's way easier for me to like, you know, roll up into global cuts or like, you know, literally hand a piece of paper of people. Even if there is an option on the piece of paper that like can lead them to the online one in case that that happens. So I know that this is kind of like bridging into what Dr. Crosby's question or comment was. But I think in terms of me personally, it's way easier for me to do like the person to person contact, especially because I just like, I know already, like who I know and how I would contact them. Even in the mail sort of thing like that. But I guess one question or well, okay, I don't know if you're ready for this one. Or okay, maybe you can write it down. So in terms of distributing this to our student community, I think that that's where it gets really tricky. Because like for me, for example, I don't know, I don't know, maybe Dr. Schwarz has a better connection working in the schools, but like I, I know like three students right now. I'm old at this point, but I don't, I don't really know. I don't really know students like that anymore. So I think that when it comes to students, I think that's where. Yeah, I have a big question about that. And maybe we're opening it up to. Maybe I just have bad, my nomenclature is bad. I don't know, but it opening it up to more people so that they can say, hey, I know that I have these students that I know, I know that I've got that. But also we don't always know who is African American. So that piece is like a, a toughie, just by, you know, it's one thing like look around and find black folks. But then I guess if we're if we're looking specifically for African heritage folks who label themselves in whatever capacities as African American, I think that's where it gets So, yeah, I'm thinking about things, thinking about things. I love when you think about things Alexis. I see Pamela is joining us wonderful. Hi Pamela. Hello. Sorry that I was late but I have been listening in for the last few minutes. I left early to avoid the snowy roads traveling back. Yeah. Good. I was just out there for grocery shopping and it was starting to get icy already so that's good. And we can hear you well and we're talking about the survey Pamela. Yes, I heard that I do have a comment so I did see the email exchange between you and Paul. My understanding is that he's just seeking approval from the town council through, I didn't read all of the statutes that was there, but I think that the process is on the way to get the approval that you need to move forward. Yeah, that's a good question because he did not communicate that with me. If that's the case, I sent it to him on the 10th. And I didn't hear back anything so I followed up. And it's my understanding that it would not need to go through the town council approval process. But if there's, if it needs to, then that's something that, you know, will need to be placed onto an agenda. And so I'm slightly concerned about that. Yeah, I don't think it needs the full process. I don't have the document in front of me now, but I thought there was some, some notification that needed to take place for intergovernment contracts. And, and I did see that he had made that notification. Okay. Follow up and email you later. That would be fantastic. Yeah. If you could do that because I saw that we have another discussion with the council agenda, and that's what I was questioning with the inner with UMDI. So yeah, please follow up with me after that would be excellent. Okay. Dr. Shavas. Thank you. So this is great. This is exactly the discussion. I was hoping for and feel we need. The soul. And in keeping with Dr. Shavas' suggestion, we do need to then take a moment and, and map out a complete distribution slash data collection strategy, because in the scope document we have before us, it is just to develop the instrument and to set it up through Qualtrics to go online that. And that's it. That's it. That's all in their scope. So we have to be clear then that's not a collection strategy. That's not a distribution strategy. You've got to do more to figure out how do you advertise this across the town so that people know. Those who do have online access here is where you go. This is what you should do. This is the window where that it's going to be open. So please between now and then, let's say between February 11 and, and March 30th, you know, as the window open, please go in and fill out your, you know, go to this site and, and fill out your, your survey. So that's, that's got to be thought through. How do you get the word out? How do we target the word? If we're in whatever targeted way we want to do this. How do we, then, and are there any other ways besides just sending them to the online portal? Sound like there's a lot of support here for there also being a paper run of the survey and that paper copies. Then we have to think about a distribution strategy for that. If it's those of us on AHRA and our support. Supportive staff at in the town. If it's through partners, different partnerships that we've, we've already had in the past with League of Women voters with Jewish congregation of Amherst with, you know, Amherst neighbors with, you know, there's a whole host of groups that we've, we've begun to develop partnerships that could, could help us get the word out both for the online as well as for a paper copy if that would be desired. Sites such as has been suggested of the Jones library of town to the town hall itself to the other libraries that might be open and other sites. So, you know, this is then, we just got to kind of write this all up, bring it back so that we can, you know, look through it one more time. And agree to it voted up or down and then we do then have a collection strategy because just with this scope of services, this is not, this is not going to, this alone isn't going to cut it just to create a, create a survey, put it up in Qualtrics online. And then that's it. We, you know, it might just be us to fill it out. That would be very much so final thing is this with respect to, to the document before us that we're really, that's our agenda item here. So I would say then thinking about some of the cost aspects and, and cost savings, then that two things that I would like to ask you to carry back to, to Dr. Spitzer. And one is to look at the Providence, Rhode Island survey. This was done in Qualtrics. This was done online. They're results of how much feedback they got to it. And it could be useful to, to look at that. And perhaps other, that may be out there. I'm familiar with the academic, the academics that created and put the, the Providence one together. Secondly, I would say this, and that is I would want to think a little more with respect to the analysis, because I don't know that we really need that. I don't know that we really need that. I don't know. I don't know with respect to the analysis, because I don't know that we really need that $5,000 expenditure for what I think we probably have enough brainpower here to get the, get the, get the Qualtrics answers back and be able to think about what it really says. So I'm, I'm kind of open on that part of the scope of services to, to not really go with that at this time. Thank you, Dr. Shabazz and Dr. Rhodes. I'm going to come to you. And if while you are saying whatever it is you're going to say, if we could also start to move this discussion very pointedly to the question that Dr. Rhodes brought up initially, which was whether this survey is going to only African-Americans in the community, or if it has a broader scope or some hybrid. So Dr. Rhodes over to you. That question really needs to be answered that, which you just said, Michelle. The other thing is just a no brainer for me to say, look, when all this data comes in, I don't want a data analysis by committee. I want the data analysis to be done by the firm who put together this, who has the staff to do it has the ability to do the budget. And we have to do it in a way that gives us a lot of more clear knowledge and such to do it and do it in a really efficient and effective manner. We don't need to have that in a lap and, and saving $5,000 is, it's not worth it because then we have another headache. That we have to deal with as a committee. When they have all of the staff available to do this on their own. my support for that. I completely understand what Dr. Shabazz is saying and I think and I understand what Dr. Rhodes is saying. I think what might be helpful, if you think about what we paid the Dunahue Institute for the Black Census, I think it's important for us to reflect on what this committee feels we have gotten out of that contract and where that Black Census may actually help us as we move forward. So I think what we want to do with Kerry is be really clear about what analysis means. I tend to agree that Dr. Rhodes is absolutely right. We don't have the timer capacity to sift through all the surveys and put them into some visual format that will help us. Ultimately we are going to be analyzing the data, but what we want is we want to analyze data that's already been put in a format that's not so raw, I would think. So I could see both sides to that, but we definitely will need to unless we ask for that piece to be broken out. For right now we will need to make that decision. Let's stay with right now though. So Dr. Rhodes, since you asked the question, what is your sense about who this survey is for? I would like the survey to be as broad as possible. I also would like to say that when I say as broad as possible, I want to make sure we capture as many in the African community as possible and that obviously the survey itself will have a question in terms of whether you are African-American or identify as African-American or not. If we don't have that, then why are we doing this? But anyway, if that question is going, that question obviously will be there. You're checking a box in terms of you're either you identify as African-American or African-American or you do not, or you have other checks that you can do. So depending upon if we say that's not why we want to have, want that to be, then it seems to me we can send that out to a broader community. So given that we'll be requesting some basic demographic data optionally obviously, but I think we could what I'm hearing you say is we have the lists that we have. We want to reach as many African heritage folks as possible in the community and we could still send it out if we develop it properly to abroad to the whole community. What I would like to do is that is just to send out to a broader community, but our focus and the intensity of our focus will be on getting as many African-Americans to fill this out that our marketing, the marketing that we do with this primarily will be marketed to the African-American community. Yes, there will be information available that this is available online, essentially to the broader community, but the intensity of and focus of our marketing will be to the African-American community. Since this is a survey of convenience, I see nothing wrong with that, because we do want to get as many African-Americans to respond as possible and we do want to get responses from the broader community. As long as we have the demographic information on there, we can separate those two responses out. So is anybody opposed to doing it that way? But everybody just weigh in? Could we just do that? That would be fantastic. Yeah, anyone who would like to weigh in on that, please raise your hand. Dr. Shabazz, do you want to weigh in on it? Sure, I was going to allow for others first though. I think it's two things. One, I think for what is a survey and what is the purpose of this? It is a research method used for collecting from a predefined group of respondents information, insights, attitudes, feelings into various topics of interest. In our case right now, it's on the question of how here in Amherst, we can instructural racism and move to provide greater racial equity for Black residents of Amherst. That is our resolution that we operate from. That is what this whole thing under the rubric of reparations is about. How do we instructural racism in this town and how do we promote greater equity for African American residents? That being said, then the survey is designed to collect information, insights, attitudes, feelings of a predefined group of respondents. Now, it's difficult as Dr. Rhodes is calling this a survey of convenience that is essentially about is not really that possible right now. We don't have a captive random sample. We don't have a captive audience in which to ensure that this predefined group is going to be a representative sample of the whole. It seems to me then, logistically, it's sound that it go out broadly and those who answer answer, but then how do we clean the data? Cleaning the data to know that we're getting at a defined group that we want to get at is where there has to be preferably toward the end of the survey. There have to be identifying questions or fields that people can answer that we can then use to say here were the responses from African American residents. Here are the responses from the whole number that answered. So that's where we can hopefully be able to disaggregate the responses to certain definite groups, particularly African Americans, but I do think the survey itself ought to go out broadly because again, we don't know. Once you put it up online and someone goes to it and fills it out, we don't, as a survey of convenience, we don't know exactly who is answering and we're going to be depending on the report of people, those who are willing to identify themselves with the survey or at least identify how they identify ethnically, racially. So we're going to be, in that sense, it's going to be relying on trusting the answers given rather than that we have a true captive defined group that we know who is answering. And so this then brings up one last thing I'll say on it, if we do approve it to go out broadly, then there are the databases of the town through which it could be mailed out, it could be emailed out, it could go out broadly if the town so approves it. Thank you. Thanks, Dr. Shabazz. I also wanted to just respond quickly to something you said earlier. I, when the Rhode Island survey came out, I went through the entire survey, I downloaded it. I downloaded the raw data that they released. I have all of that information. I don't know if it's still available or if they've shut that down in terms of being online, but either way, I will send that out to the group so that we can, any one of us should start to really look at that so that we can have that as some insight into what we're doing. So just reminded me, and I just quickly looked and I still have it in my Google Drive. Alexis. I don't know if Dr. Shabazz just said what I'm going to say in a more politically correct way. Okay. So being that, and maybe I'm just problematizing for no reason, but how do we assure then if these answers are coming in anonymously in some cases, how do we know it's not a farce? I'll just leave it at that again. Yeah. Yep. And that's something that we should talk to Kerry about and see how in more sensitive or controversial type of surveys that she or the, she may be able to talk to the executive director, how that might be looked at for us. I think that's a really solid inquiry. Are there any other thoughts, feelings, questions about the, who the survey is going to? Are we generally, I don't think we need to take a vote if there's general consensus unless somebody feels like there's some opposition to that method. All right. I just want to make sure we're clear as to what we are ascending to in terms of this. So, Michelle, you need to clarify that so everyone knows what you're proposing or saying. Yeah. Let me restate that. So I think what I've heard is that the survey will be sent to the broad community. It will include certain identifying questions that respondents will have the option to either complete or not complete. And I'm going to do a little further inquiry with Kerry about how to deal with all of the nuance of all of that and all of the things that have been raised. What I'd also like to do is come back with, on Monday at our next meeting, based on this discussion, a distribution plan that we can look at together so that as we're working, for example, or if you begin the work of actually developing the survey with Kerry, being if we can get this moved through with our town manager, then I can begin thinking about how we might strategically distribute so that we're once sort of both of those things come together, we're ready to go. Did that encapsulate what you had in mind, Dr. Rhodes? Yes, except that when you talk, I think both of us, I would, both of us have to carry it at the same time. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. And she was very apologetic. She was really looking forward to being here today and, you know, three kids at home on a snow day makes it tough. So we'll, I'm certainly going to invite her to our meeting next Monday, but I will hope that Dr. Rhodes and I will be able to meet with her sooner than that so that we can start putting some of this stuff together before our next meeting. So are there any other questions or comments right now on the survey? Okay. So it's 251. I am quickly going to just announce that we have arranged, well, let me back up at the end of our last meeting. I mentioned briefly that Amherst neighbors had invited some, some of us, not specifically any one of us, but invited a couple members to come and be part of a panel presentation that is open to the public, but that will be offered primarily to the Amherst neighbors membership. And so that is happening. That's been confirmed. It's occurring on Thursday, February 2nd. From four to five 30, it will be entirely virtual and Dr. Shabazz and I will be there. Kathleen Anderson will be there on the panel. However, all members are invited to be there if they are able. I know Ms. Bridges that you're not available. You had shared that with me that on the second, I think you have an appointment, right? Can I have surgery? Right. I didn't want to. That's all right. Just saying. Yeah. I'd rather be there. Yeah. We'll say a prayer while we're there. We'll hold you in that space. Yeah. So that I will make sure that that gets out to everybody. In term of the League of Women Voters, Meg Gage has requested that a couple of us and a couple of them get together to start having some preliminary discussion. I think Meg has some concerns about sort of what the original format, or maybe not concerns, but questions about what the original format was, how Dr. Darities, because there's some requests on purchasing a certain amount of books, what the financial implications of that would be, whether we want this to be a full panel or all of those kinds of things. So Dr. Rhodes and Meg had a conversation. I've had a conversation with Meg, so we're going to try to get more together with a couple of them and get some details back to this group. And so if between now and the next couple weeks, if you have any particular thoughts on that that you haven't already shared, please send them my way so that we can make sure they're addressed. So being that it's 254, we do have several folks in the attendees today. And so I'm going to call for public comment. I did just say in the beginning of the meeting that we have a limited time today, so I will allow for two minutes of public comment for anybody who has their hand raised, but I also would like to say that we'll have more time and space in our next meetings. This just happens to be a more limited meeting because of the weather. So let me just go ahead and call for public comment. If you'd like to make public comment, please go ahead and raise your hand and we'll bring you into the room and you can make your comment. As usual, we'll be listening very carefully, but generally not responding. And I am going to... I just tried to let Ciara in, so Ciara, so she should be coming in. Perfect. There's a little bit of a time lapse. Let's double check. I think it's Chiara. Oh, Chiara. Yes, let's... Chiara, we're debating your name. Can you... Thank you. Thank you. I'm here. So again, my name is Chiara Cosby, and I just want to say that the Alliance for Afro-American Cultural Education at UMass Amherst submitted recommendations to the AHRA on December 12, and those recommendations were on the agenda for both the December 19th and January 9th meetings, and those recommendations affirmed to the AHRA that ethnic Black Americans, descendants of those enslaved in Amherst and in the United States of the whole, are suffering an ongoing genocide. We called for the AHRA to center the experiences and perspectives of Native Black Americans in an atonement process that is rooted in historical traumas that are specific to our ethnic group. The AHRA has yet to address this agenda item, and I was concerned to see that it's no longer on your agenda, nor are the recommendations listed as an upcoming agenda item. The AHRA has a duty to adhere and respond to feedback from the public, especially Black Americans on the direction of its process. Even if its members may disagree with the perspectives or ideas shared, preparation for Black Americans is an issue of national interest and importance, and thus members of the public across the country have eyes on the AHRA's process. I'm eager to hear from the Donahue Institute regarding the upcoming community survey, and it's critical that any demographic data collected from Black residents in Amherst be disaggregated by ethnic group. This will provide ethnic Black Americans, descendants of US chattel slavery, or American freedmen, an opportunity to be identified as a people group and will yield a clearer picture of the disparities faced by our community in Amherst in order to achieve true data equity. This will also aid your information distribution efforts. This is in line with HD 2864, which was recently reintroduced in the massive state legislature, which calls for data disaggregation in the Commonwealth. Notably, our population is not specified for disaggregation in this bill, while nearly every other populace ethnic group in the Commonwealth, including the African diaspora, is represented and will achieve data equity. I hope that the Donahue Institute will be able to consider these facts as well. And finally, I would like to request that Chair Miller and the Assembly will prioritize and honor both public comment periods, as listed on its agenda going forward. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Kara. And I would like to just take a quick second to respond to your, I really appreciate your comment. And I recognize that the item has not been on the agenda. We're sort of working through a process. We will absolutely be taking up what has been sent. And it is in the packet. It's publicly available. So as we move through this process, we will be taking it up. And I appreciate the comment about the public comment period as well. So thank you very much. Great. Great. And so we have Jaylin Conway. Hello, do you hear me? Yes, very well. Okay, hi. So I've been following the UMass and Hearsting because Kiara, we did work here in Boston. As y'all can see the articles and the receipts they have posted. They have passed the reparations task force. But what I'm going to say is that we need the desegregated data. That is the only way we're able to figure out who is who. We have Africans that come off a plane and they check the box African-American. How dare you? If you go look at Evanston or what happened in Illinois, how dare Narcan and Cobra grift off and make money off our plates and give it to people. And this is what I'm saying. We have desegregated data is the most important thing because you cannot give people who come overseas our money. If they want reparations and they want state acts of atonement, they need to go see it from the people who enslaved them. And this is real. Reparations is not something you should be able to play with or make money off of people's plate. This is a debt owe for 400 years. So let me tell y'all something. It's very important. And as a young person, I've talked into my people, the American Freeman youth who do go to UMass Amherst. And I'm talking to them and they're saying that this is looking very weird because they are not willing to come and comment sometimes because it is very frustrating that there are people trying to make money off our plate and send it somewhere else to Africa. I am an African American and this is me speaking from the heart because these are my ancestors. So I would respect if desegregated data is very important and also too. We don't want to make this broad. We don't want to make this broad because you are allowing other groups to come in and say, hey, you qualify. How do you qualify when you wasn't here? So I'm just only stressing that because it's very disrespectful how Narcan and Cobra and the Pan-Africanists have been going around nationwide. Yes, Ken Howard has a tour coming up. He's going to Chicago. He's going to New York to preach this reparation packages and we're going to be done. No, it's state acts of atonement. Reparations can only be paid on the federal level to the 40 million immense and paid as slaves of 1865. So all of these reparation packages that are popping around in different states, that's not reparations. That's not going to repair the all the 40 million slaves of 1865 in United States. It's just not going to repair us. So when we talk about this is state acts of atonement, it's not reparations. It's state acts of atonement. So I just wanted to make that clear and I do talk to Black Americans, American Freemen who are African Americans at UMass Amherst and they're saying the same thing that I'm seeing and I'm educating and I'm telling them they should come and they should talk to y'all. But the only reason is, is that we get excluded and people don't listen to us. They exclude us out. They don't want to take our phone calls and they don't want to answer emails. I send an email, no response. We get excluded. How dare you exclude someone where you're not the descendant of the 40 million emancipated slaves of 1865. And that's what I'm here to talk about. And thank you for speaking. I'm done. Thank you, Jaylin. All right. I do not see any other hands raised right now. And I would like to just take pause to the comments that we just received. I find that sometimes folks would like to respond immediately other times there's processing and we'll continue that process together. But I do see Dr. Chavez. I am going to take you. I just saw one other hand go up in our participants. So I want to make sure that I get to that person. Antonia Edwards. Hi, Antonia. Hi, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you again for allowing me to speak. I was at the previous meeting. I'm a full supporter of Chiara. I have been working with her. She is a Springfield resident of Massachusetts and she's in Florida. And so because I do reparations work from Connecticut and Massachusetts, we teamed up together. What I like for you guys to consider and I did speak about it last week was focus on the students. I know that there's a lot of residents in the town of Amherst that are Black or African American, however, that are interested in this, but they're students. And I'm of the age of 56. I have a lot of friends who have kids who have gone to Amherst who suffer systematic racism. And even if they don't live there full time, they'll stay long enough during the year to face these discriminations. And so I'd really like you to focus your survey on these students because Amherst doesn't have a high number of African American or Black residents that lives there, you know, 24 hours a day. So I also want to say in all respect, I don't really think the survey should be generalized to the general public of all other races. When you're talking about reparations or acts of atonement, it should really be the harm party because nobody else could speak for us. And so when the AAPI community talks about anti-Asian bills or anti-discrimination bills or the Japanese or Native Americans or even the Jewish from the Holocaust, they don't invite other people to speak on their rehab. They don't have other people invoke their opinions on how they were harmed. And I would just like for people to take that in consideration because it's highly disrespectful. And as a descendant of Chattel slavery, my mom was a child, illegal child sharecropper. My grandparents on both sides were sharecroppers because they're parents were slaves. We really need to have our identity recognized as pure erasure to not do so. And so I don't think in this particular case when we're talking about reparations, we need other races to do a survey to tell us how reparations should be paid or how it should be identified or how we were harmed. It's egregious and it's highly disrespectful. And I just want to end that again to please focus on the youth. The youth are our future. And if we're not listening to them and they're they're not there as they're not considered to be a part of those who are harmed in your community, we're overlooking a mass category of people that are harmed in that short period of time and come away from the Amherst experience as though it's highly racist and that they're not a part and they're not welcome. And I just want to make sure that you focus on the students first and also those who descend from Chattel slavery because reparations wouldn't be a common conversation if it wasn't for the 40 million or 4 million emancipated slaves. And so I do agree about having the debt desegregated. We should be talking about the emancipated slaves which are the American freemen first and foremost. And I want to also say I'm not devised as xenophobic. All Black people in America are discriminated against but it's the primary source and the root cause is slavery. And I want us to keep that in mind. Please thank you. And thank you for allowing me to speak. Thank you Antonio. Really appreciate your comment. Okay so we have another hand that's come up since that comment. So Jennifer if you could bring in TBAT task force and TBAT task force if you could just give me one second to ask Jennifer a question. Jennifer are you Town Hall closed at 3? How are you doing in terms of are you in Town Hall? Are you good or? I was expecting to be here till 4.30 am. Okay we have a dog sled that we can get to you Jennifer in emergency. What did you say Dr. Rhodes? I said we have a dog sled for Jennifer if she needs one. Nice. I think Rocky would be into it. Okay so please TBAT task force. Thank you. Thank you. Can you hear me? Yes. All right thank you. First definitely thank you to the panel for coming together for this matter. A few things that I wanted to address. And during this meeting was stated that they were going to be actually out amongst the African community and that was kind of definitely taken aback by that because reparations is a repair for a specific group of people. And those are Black American descendants of chattel slavery and Jim Crow laws. And so that is who it needs to be for. That is who needs to be heard. That is who needs to be asked what they feel their repair should be. And then someone mentioned that reparations the purpose of reparations is to end racism. And that is not the purpose of reparations. It is not the duty of those in the Black American descendant community to repair or fix or end racism. To even think that or to even suggest that is negligent and quite disrespectful to think that our repair that we should mule for all racism. I just thought that that was very alarming as to the focus of some people that are on this panel. We're not here to end racism. Repairing Black Americans will absolutely benefit the world, right? Because this is an act against humanity. In 2023, Black Americans are actively in a genocide. And every passing day that we delay this and not focusing in on the people that were harmed specifically is a problem. So I'm hoping that this panel recognizes that recognizes what reparations is and in fact, who it is due to specifically. It is not a race-based claim or repair. It is for a specific ethnic group, a specific lineage, a specific group of people that have received this harm. And that continues to receive harm even in 2023. So I just wanted to reiterate that as well, that this repair is for a specific group. It's not for Africans. It is not for those that just arrived. It's those that have been actively under a genocide for hundreds of years. And at this point, we're feeling that we are definitely the government has been handling us with benign neglect. And so again, thank you for this. We look forward to being present and alert. And thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you. And we have one more. I'm going to ask if there are any other public comments, please go ahead and raise your hand now. And we're going to bring in Cache. And then we're going to close the comment period. Welcome, Cache. Hello. Hello. Thank you for having me. I first wanted to just clarify that I'm black American on both sides for context of the conversation, meaning that my mother and my father would be eligible for reparations, as well as my little brother, my little sister and myself. I wanted to mention to the panel and really to stay diligent to anyone who's mentioning reparations to keep the numbers as far as what's calculated for direct cash payments as high as possible, not because we're trying to quantify the brutality we survived, but because a lot of our tax against our community have actually been economic from housing to education to business loans. I'm not going to belabor the room of this task force. I like to speak about solutions in San Francisco, which is a city, which I think is a fair comparison to Amherst. They're mentioning and they were able to calculate 10 different financial solutions, including trust funds, tax credits, 250 years of payments tied to the area median income, which we believe is kind of a low ball, as well as a lump sum of $5 million. I just wanted to drop that in the room so that we have a kind of basis to work from as far as speaking about the actual numbers that will be referred to and compared. All that being said, I want to say I applaud you again for speaking about repairing the Black American community, specifically those who are descendant of the slave population. And I want to remind you to be wary of those who are trying to make this all oppressions matter, all poverty's matter, or trying to jump in with other people's justice claims on ours. We've survived this multiple times throughout history, and we won't let it happen to us anymore, especially with something titled reparations itself. So thank you for the time. Thank you, Cash. Thank you very much. All right. So the public comment, I do not see any other hands right now. So let me, before I go to Dr. Shavas, I'd like to do a time check for members to make sure that we stay above a quorum. So starting with you, Alexis, what is your time limitation today? I'm cool. I'm here for the ride. Yeah. All right. Dr. Rhodes? Well, I mean, I've already had one meeting. This is the second one. And the third one is coming up at four o'clock because I'm a member of the school committee. And it's going to be a joint school committee and council meeting. So as far as I'm concerned, I would like to be off in the next 17 minutes. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. And I'm also heard of that as a council. We have a meeting tonight with the school committee. Hala? I'm good to four or whenever you need. Okay. Ms. Bridges, I know you had said you might need to leave early, but I'm not sure what time I just I just made that to 3.30. Great. I think I'm good. Okay. Perfect. And Dr. Shavas, and then you can also go ahead with your comments, but just in terms of timing. Thank you. Yeah, I'm also good for 3.34 o'clock if need be. So I just wanted to pick up from our agenda with the HR 40 update and BAM update if that's possible. Absolutely. All right. So HR 40, the legislation in the Congress was submitted in the new Congress, the 118th Congress on January 9, 2023. It is a bill to address the fundamental injustice, cruelty, brutality, and inhumanity of slavery in the United States and the 13 American colonies between 1619 and 1865, and to establish a commission to study and consider a national apology and proposal for reparations for the institution of slavery, its subsequent de jure and de facto racial and economic discrimination against African Americans and the impact of these forces on living African Americans to make recommendations to Congress on appropriate remedies and for other purposes. So this has been reintroduced in the new Congress, the 118th Congress. It has over 75 cosponsors. There were an initial set of cosponsors supporting Ms. Sheila Jackson Lee of Houston, Texas, who introduced it again. I am proud to say that among those was of initial cosponsors introducing it January 9 was our very own representative McGovern, whom we had at our listening session. He was among those helping to reintroduce it, also a Yana Presley out of the Boston area, also others. And it is continuing to tick up the numbers of folks since January 9, many from January 20, January each day, more and more are signing on in the new Congress. And we do hope that it will continue going up in the coming days. I also want to note, I've read the language of the bill introduced on January 9, and it cleans up a number of things that have been criticized, things that notably Dr. Sanidarity, criticisms he had of the HR 40 that was introduced in the 117th regarding members who selected, there's no longer mention of legacy organizations, NARC or Incobra as people who would be on it. It's much more direct and clean. I don't say that it is immune from further criticism that people may wish to have. There's certain things that are not there in language that's not there that I might have liked to see. But in general, I think it has been responsive to some of the critiques that have been made and is very, very, I hope will continue to move forward. In the meantime, I want to note that efforts are increasing for federal action by President Biden. A letter went out on the 20th, this past Thursday, that AHRA was not able to consider being a signatory to many organizations are a part of it. Many municipalities that have reparations, first repair, Robin Ruth Simmons' organization is on there. So many people are on there. But this was directed to the Honorable Stephen Hansford, Chair of the Congressional Black Caucus, and Mr. Vince Edwards, the Executive Director of the Congressional Black Caucus, asking them to go forward with asking President Biden to proceed by executive action to create the Commission, again, modeled on what's in HR 40, but to go ahead and to do it by executive action. Of course, none of these, these will simply allow for the study to proceed, will allow for the recommendations of certain proposals that would then go back to Congress for ultimate action budgeting and so forth for those. But again, very pleased to see the wide range of organizations and broad support and inclusion of, of course, the New African community as well. I used the term New African to refer to the specific nationality, ethnicity of people of African descent in the United States whose ancestors were enslaved in the United States. So, you know, it's, it we have to come at this all, all in. And as was noted, some like to say that the term reparations should be reserved purely for the efforts at this federal level. And I get the arguments in favor of that. And if you want to talk about the work that we're doing here as work of local governmental act of atonement, that's, that's fine if that's your preference of language. But again, I certainly believe that ultimately the kind of meaningful reparations that that we're talking about, inclusive of direct cash payments, but not entirely or limited to direct cash payments is something that is at the federal level. And the vision I've always had of AHRA is that we would always be a bully pulpit locally for the support of that action at the federal and national level. But the local work we do as limited as that is in terms of its ability to to that it is not, let me just put it this way, understanding that it is not and is in cannot be the level of reparations that we need that is at the federal level. But this local work that we are doing is nonetheless a very important work helping to build toward that action at the federal and national level, as well as consistent with the resolution that give that the town has passed that gives that that gave birth to AHRA. And that is a resolution to commit this town government to end structural racism and specifically to work toward the equity and benefit of people of African descent, African Americans, residents of Amherst. So I think we stand on that foundation that is of no disrespect to anybody that that is our foundation we stand on. And and I think we are moving moving straight ahead with respect to to both those that is supporting action at the national federal level, true reparations, if you will, but also doing locally all that we can to bring about atonement and equity and the ending of racism, at least as concern, people of African and new Africans or people of African descent. Finally, I just would say Dr. Rosen, I've talked about this, but we will be approaching asking Hala and others to convene BAM in February to create that kind of space where the descendants of the free people, you Africans can come together in an all African American all you African setting to really have a space to talk about where we are in this process and to bring to AHRA and to bring to the wider community our thoughts and concerns from that space. So so that so look for that in the month of February as well. Thank you. Thanks, Dr. Shabazz. And I'll just say that we in the coming weeks, our work will be to have these really in depth discussions. And we're all going to bring our individual perspective and work together to incorporate the feedback that we receive from the folks in our community as well as other folks who are weighing in to create our proposal. So I just want it to be clear, especially for folks who may just have learned about the work that we're doing, that we are in the middle of working through a process. We'll be meeting weekly over the next many weeks through June, and we'll be having these very in depth discussions at the same time. We have to take time out of these meetings to be because of the limitations of open meeting law, we're unable to plan events and do much work behind the scenes. So some of the meeting time has to be allocated to doing that work as well. And I will also say that as a municipality, there are certain limitations that we have or certain expectations as a body and as a government that, you know, where there are a community of taxpayers involved. So we are sort of taking all of that into consideration and any and all. I think that it was Antonia who said about the students. Any, I think that any sorts of ways to get and encourage folks like students, other folks that we might not have the ability to or are not reaching, please do encourage them to come and speak or write to us or anything like that. So I am going to call a second public comment period. I'm going to honor that because we do have a hand raised. And then after that public comment, after this public comment period, we'll move toward closing the meeting. And we have a lot to think about. And let me just check with everybody for next Monday's meeting, would we be able to commit to a two hour, a full two hour meeting from two to four p.m. If you're unable to do that, just please let me know. I'd like for us to try to to do that next week. Okay. Yes, Alexis. Sorry. So so our next meeting is next week, not the following week. Yeah, our next meeting is the 30th at two o'clock. Oh, okay. Okay. Is that is that a hard time? Is that not work for you? Well, no, I'll make it work. I'll make it work. Okay. Yeah, I think given that we are, you know, three quarters of the way are almost finished with January and our charge is due up in June, we're going to be meeting quite regularly for the next, you know, many weeks. Of course, there's going to be vacations and things where folks are not able to make it and we'll make that work. So Jennifer, I think I saw Antonia had her hand up. Antonia, will you raise your hand again if you wanted to speak? Okay. I'm not sure what happened there. I think she put her hand down, but it's there. She is. Oh, there we go. Okay. And cash also put their hand up. So let's go to Antonia since she had her hand up first and then we'll bring in cash. Yeah, she should be coming in. Welcome back, Antonia. Hi. I just want to do this with all due respect and I want you guys to listen to the conversation that Dr. Shabazz said. I don't know Dr. Shabazz. I have the highest respect for him because Kiara does, but in his verbiage, he has this new Africa. What is that? We in the black community didn't agree to that. And so this is the knock on cobra concerted effort to speak on our behalf as those who send from Chattel slavery. And this is the stuff that we're talking about. So the Evanston first repair is knocking in cobra. This evidence that this Amherst is knocking in cobra. The CBC is ran by Sheila Jackson Lee, which is knocking in cobra. And they make concerted effort not to allow us to speak on our behalf. And so that's why we're running around to all these municipal and local reparations on projects and speaking for our on our behalf. And if we don't show up, they control the narrative. It shouldn't be the one group or two of multiple groups to band together that has a pan African ideology control the narrative for the masses. I'm in the community every day. I'm in all day. I control I'm in Connecticut and I'm in Massachusetts. Nobody knows what a new African is. What is a new African? That's something that I'm knocking in cobra with a pan African ideology decided to claim us as being they refuse to say American freedmen who we which we are, which is on the congressional books as of 18 1865. They come with this global reparations package for the African diaspora. They have nothing to do with the slavery that transpired here in America. And it's highly egregious. And it's highly disrespectful. And they barely talk to Dr. Darity, who's on their level. Dr. Darity is a scholar. And we follow him and they refuse to conclude his edits on HR 40. And that's why the black community is against HR 40. At first, there was no cash reparations. They wanted to be paid $100,000. The Senate Task Force, it was totally controlled by knocking in cobra. And it's a monopoly. So I'm just saying to you, please do your research. I'm not disrespecting Dr. Sabaz, but for him to sit here and tell me that I'm a new African as highly disrespectful, who named us that who let the gate up to allow us to rename the 4 million emancipated slaves that's on congressional paperwork as being American freedmen. And this is what's going on in our group within the black community. This is a black community problem. And they're using you to grift. And it's wrong. Evanston had 500 people to apply for first repair. They thought that these people thought they were getting cash reparations for a housing program. Only 16 people were picked out of the bingo lottery thing. 16 people in a community. They still haven't paid them. I know these people personally. I family in Chicago. I work with Chicago. It's a lie. It's a grift. So I'm just saying I don't have no disrespect towards Mrs. Sabaz. But don't call our people new African. What is a new African? Most of our people who descend from shadow slavery don't even identify with Africa. We're 400 years removed. And if somebody wants to practice pan-Africanism, and they want to get in touch with their roots, that's fine. But don't invoke your ideology on the masses of us and control the narrative. And I really, really wish you would do your research. I can send you all kinds of documentation where they block us out. They have symposiums. And if you ask a question, they ignore you. They won't let you speak if you're American descendant of chattel slavery. I have screenshots where I said, is there anybody there representing American descendants of chattel slavery, and they block me immediately. They don't want us to have a voice because they want us to control the narrative. And I'm just going to say one more thing. Their director, Cam Howard, is with IB21 knocking in Cobra. He did his spaces on Twitter. I have the recording. He said, I don't care about anything, but getting my bag so I can buy a house in Africa. If you want to get the recording, I can send it to you. My email address is antenoantenea.edwards.yaho. These are the games they play. He wants us to pretend they were all friends, all aggressive organizations, so he can push through HR 40. His tour is to brainwash people into believing that they have the keys to the kingdom for reparation. Let's keep it real. I'm just taken aback by the fact that somebody can sit here and tell me what my people are when my people were slaves here. It's very disgusting and I don't want you to be used, but if you want me to send you the documentation, my email address, again, is antenoant.Edwards.Yaho.com, and Cam Howard said this is health. Who is knocking in Cobra? So I just want to get that out there. I'm sorry that I sound upset, but when I hear this new Africa stuff, you can't rename us anymore. Black people have been renamed seven times. We were niggers, Negroes. We were colored. We were black, we were Afro-American. Now we're people of color and BIPOC, where the only race has been renamed. Now the pink Africans want to call us New Africa. It's egregious and I'm highly offended. So I just want to say that I'm going to sign off because I can't listen to it anymore. But again, I have documents and I can confirm everything I'm saying and I have witnesses to show the first repair is a grip. And those people in Everson, Illinois are suffering and they won't even speak to them. Any meeting we go to, they won't speak to us. They block us out. I don't need for somebody's religion, like being a Muslim, whether it be Christian envy or Catholic, your personal ideology shouldn't control my reparations. I didn't ask for that. So I just want to say that and I'm going to bow out gracefully because I'm only here for Kiara, but I can't listen to this anymore. It's really disrespectful, okay? But have a wonderful day and I'll try to calm down and come to your next meeting, okay? Thank you so much, everybody. Thank you, Antonia. No problem. Thank you. All right. So I think cash is in and then we have Kiara's hand is raised as well. So welcome back cash. Thank you again for letting me speak once more. I wanted to say just because I heard HR 40 mentioned to those who are reparationists who keep up with it on the daily. We've already seen HR 40S foregone as something we've thrown out the window. My understanding is more than 100 co-sponsors in their Senate bill 40, which is S dot 40, the HR 40 duplicate for the Senate, supposed by Cory Booker. Our issue as Black Americans with HR 40 federally is that it had a salary for those who were featured on the commission, which Dr. Darity mentioned in his six edits, that it starts at 1619 when America wasn't founded until 1776. So that's essentially 151 years of enslavement that we have to go to the British crown for and can't hold America liable for. The HR 40 didn't mention closing the racial wealth gap, which Dr. Darity mentioned should be at least a goal of reparations or studying in general. There was no deadline for the commission at all. We argued that there should at least be a limit of 18 months or two years, excuse me, somewhere around there. I'm glad that the legacy organizations that were moved from it because that seemed like a perverse incentive as well as the salary. I'm not a new African. I specified multiple times that I'm Black American on both sides with context of the conversation. As you can see by my hoodie, which says it does not say new African, I just want to clarify that. And then lastly, as Black Americans, we know that there's a group called NAASD from California who helped to create AB 3121 and they support HR 1865, which is the new update to HR 40. So anyone who's distracted by the federal claim while speaking about citywide reparations should understand that HR 40 has an update and we're not going for that trick bill or those trick politics and we don't trust Sheila Jackson Lee. Thank you again for letting me speak. Thank you, Cash. So Jennifer did text me that she had to use the restroom, so I'm not sure. Kiara, if Pamela, do you have the ability to bring in Kiara? I will see if I have that. She promoted me to panelist, but I don't know. Oh, I think I was able to do it. At least it looked like I was. There we are. Hi, Kiara. You're in. Excellent. Thank you so much. I just wanted to, I had mentioned before the bill that's in Massachusetts State House and I just wanted to share some language with you in terms of identification. So as I said before, that bill is going to disaggregate basically every ethnic group, whether Asian, white, Caucasian, Hispanic, every other group. And I want to just share with you the section concerning Black or African American. So this is what it says. So each major Black or African American group as reported by the United States Census Bureau, including that limited to African American, Jamaican, Haitian, Nigerian, Ethiopian, Cape Burden and Somali. So that's how it breaks down in terms of Black racial or ethnic identities. And I want to note that African American is used as a racial category. It's used as a racial aggregate category that anybody who's considered Black will be able to be identified as. Meanwhile, it also lists African American as a subgroup, as an ethnicity. So that's supposed to be our disaggregated category. Meanwhile, it's the racial aggregate category. So every other group here that's listed is going to be disaggregated. Meanwhile, ethnic Black American, the Centers of Childhood Slavery are still called African American, which is still considered the racial aggregate group. So we're not even going to be disaggregated at all. So just to continue, this is just another example. We're talking about genocide and paper genocide. We're not specified. We're not going to have any identification whatsoever on our statistical position when it comes to housing and homelessness, incarceration, everything. We're not going to have any data on it because it will just be lumped in as a Black aggregate group that anybody can check off. So I just wanted to point that out. And I will be sure to email you this bill's language. So you can also look at it yourself. But every other group is going to be disaggregated except our population. So I just wanted to note that as well. Thank you. Thank you, Chiara. And yes, please do email it and we'll make sure it gets into the public packet. You can email it to me. And if you have Jennifer and Pamela's email addresses, they're on our Engage Amherst site as well as our town site. So if you don't have them, you can grab them there and please do email us. Thanks. Alrighty. So let's see here. Just want to do a quick check of the agenda to make sure that I didn't miss anything that absolutely has to... Okay. Dr. Rhodes left. So the one other item on here that we really didn't touch on at all is the documentary, The Big Payback, and having a discussion about the Big Payback and whether we would like to host a community screening of The Big Payback. I am meeting with some folks later this week to get a little bit more information about that. So I'll provide that for our next meeting. So are there any other questions and comments right now from... On that one, Michelle, I would encourage if we could talk to our contacts in the Amherst College Student Government, maybe UMass, the Student Government or the Diversity Chair of Student Government there, and Hampshire College, that might be an excellent, especially as an outreach tool to the student community. And I would note that it does go into a range of voices, a range of on the Evanston background, so it's not locked into to any one particular voice. And I would say in that regard, it's good that it is so, because as we've heard today in public comment that there is a range of voices and opinions, and my only concern with what was expressed there is the notion that of what I was saying is imposing on anyone. I was saying for myself that is how I identify in terms of my way of encapsulating my national history, my national experience, because I don't go as an American freedman. I've been free from the beginning. I didn't need the U.S. government to free my ancestors. My ancestors were free before there was a U.S. government. They were enslaved in Louisiana, and before Louisiana became a part of the United States, then some of them had already become free. So, you know, freedom is a and being free people is a very interesting construct, but it's one that I don't use as the framework to identify my claim and my history and my claim for reparations. I use the term as I've learned it from people like Amario Bidelli and Queen Mother Moore. I use the term but I don't impose that on anybody, and it certainly I'd be glad to try to educate Sister Antonia about it. I think Yara already knows a bit about where I stand on that, but I'm happy to share personally with anyone, but I don't impose that on anyone, and I'm not a tool of any organization, NARC or in Cobra or anybody else on this work. So, I think that's something that we ought to recognize as we think about the big payback is that there are a range of voices out there. There's a range of opinions from direct compensation to more of an ongoing kind of reparative programs with other things besides just direct cash benefits. There are a range of ideas out there, and it's important to hold space for all of those, even where we do begin to drive toward making certain recommendations and prioritizing certain recommendations and ideas locally, statewide and nationally and internationally. Thank you. Thanks Dr. Shabazz. I'm going to quickly just do a screen share just so folks can see. So, if you are interested in watching the big payback prior to us having a discussion about this, you can go to PBS. If you just do a quick Google PBS, the big payback, you'll be able to find it and it's streaming free, and I'm about three quarters of the way through it. I do agree that there are different perspectives being offered, and so I would ask if folks are willing and able to watch it, that way we'll have a better discussion when it comes to deciding on moving forward with a community screening. Appreciate much what Dr. Shabazz said regarding reaching out to UMass and Amherst College and Hampshire College. I think it's an excellent possible opportunity for us. So, I'm going to stop that and I think I am. Okay, there we go. So, are there any other questions or comments before we adjourn the meeting? All right. Well, really excellent, rich meeting. Thank you. Thank you to those who came to speak in public comment, and we'll look forward to seeing everybody on the 30th at 2 o'clock for a two-hour meeting. And it is 3.43, Jennifer. Thank you. Okay. Bye-bye, everyone. Have a good week. Bye-bye.