 I was able to get somebody all over the valley and disperse in nobody's business. So one of the experiences we've had over the last few days is completely disperse and just go away and not be part of what we do. Now obviously a lot of you who are still in the room are in my class and I'll see you on Tuesday. And we'll be talking about this more. But a lot of us in here are gonna be able to share with them. But I also, because if you're not gonna do anything then I'm gonna take it and I'm gonna update maybe three law posts about it. And I'm pretty sure it's okay. So those of you who don't know, I write in my scope of spare time, I write up all those phrases. Of course, we have been live streaming. Thank you, News 8 TV. Woo! All the emerging arts leaders in here, you have transitioned into your first, really second professional career after education. That I think you have to have a couple of questions towards you to start some discussion. And the first one is, as the next generation of arts leaders, I want some of this conversation to lead towards action. One way to not dissolve the song always leads to action. So as leaders in the arts community, be entrepreneurial in building. Is the idea of looking intently and to make sure that we're looking up from and noticing the physical place of the city? You don't have to just really have a boundary. Yeah. Right, and outside your city, even though it's a travel problem or not, outside of your city in the US, can you go to downtown urban core and there's those like, bake it off. Like not just like they built like, bake it locked. Maybe in Detroit, but. Like, bake it locked. Bake it locked. And part of the reason for that is, the zoning of the air rides, so the property's worth a certain amount. You know, you can't build on it or is that going to build this company's zoning housing? And part of it is, you know, there's not. So what we'll do as artists is to activate those, those vacant lots and they have them not seem like that, but certainly seeing opportunity is the discipline. I mean, so I said this in class, right? Seeing opportunity is the discipline of entrepreneurship, but recognizing that that vacant lot is not like, but that vacant lot is a blank canvas on which we can build something or paint something. One thing that I would, within the arts community between organization and artists, sort of found myself in arts administration haphazardly, like I think it would be arts degree. And I think that, but, you know, as we're talking, I think that we do. It's like, yeah. It's like, yeah. In the arts administration world, I think that just continuing to do this work together and really embracing these values that we've been talking about, so that we start to make a sea change as those of us who are working in organizations or in government or in administration, move up into different roles within that context and bring these values with us into the work of those. One thing that I love in one of the reasons that I really wanted to join, and we're two arts leaders, is the fact that as an organization or a group, we are not only looking at how we can impact actively through our community by doing things, but also just going to stuff. And I feel like that's really important. That is, I mean, to have it as like an active mission as a group, to like, we're all gonna go to this event. We're gonna try to go to events together and show that we're there and show that we're supporting and be supportive. I think it's something that in this community in particular is hard. It's hard because we're all trying to make things and we're spread out, we learn different disciplines and we're all trying to venture, but we sometimes, and I know I'm totally gonna do this, like forget to go to other people's stuff. You know, it just becomes sort of, you have your friends that you work with and you go to their things, but outside of that sometimes it almost feels like it just sort of dissipates after that. Like you're being curious about the things that about other work, what you don't know or any assumptions about what people are doing without having gone. I think it's something that really got me excited about this group and wanting to be a part of a culture or part of a practice of actually making an active effort to attend other things. And through that, having an actual active experience that opens my mind to what is going on. So in your white paper foundation for what is now, people are calling it big funding initiatives, but also because of this idea that you can keep the arts, I went down exactly the quote that I wanted to use from you from last night, but keeping the arts at the core or the art is really at the core of these activities, your position. I think where I do this is only like, we're all trying to do it in a different way, some with more of an emphasis on equity and inclusion than others. And that's unstoppable in a way. These aren't big funding initiatives, really. It's not very much money for what's happening all over the United States and so on. But what is happening a lot is a lot of places, a lot of organizations, a lot of arts leaders and other people for the first time are saying, oh, this is really kind of a cool combination and a really great idea. And we have these values or sources in our arts and cultural community and they do bring us these wonderful intrinsic benefits, joy, beauty, criticism, satire, and understanding of each other, bridging and all these things. And yeah, it is time for us to, on the arts side, get out from our bunkers and just be concerned with getting people to come inside the doors of our space and really work with other people. I don't think that's gonna stop. I think it's really, really kind of caught on and Prancing don't get the thing, oh, what's matter, we're gonna do it anyway, right? So, and they're doing it, meaning it's human energy and not with money because there isn't a lot of money in this era. So that, I think, is a very, very exciting thing. And the arts and culture at a core, I think, to the extent that the arts community is about, people really get that, people in the arts community don't want to just use an early development. They don't want to just be used to turn out their neighborhood. So, if they really feel like they are partners and they have ownership of it and they're listening for the first time and people who have a lot of skills, in urban design, transportation, or healthcare, whatever it is, that's the bridge, they're gonna learn a lot, but they're gonna be true to their artistic mission or in skills. So that's why I continue to really believe it has great potential, but it also needs a lot of thought. I think, you know, I think, we all kind of share a vision in this room of seeing the future of placemaking, the thriving organizations and projects that, like Laura's and Michael's, that will model to cure for us in the past couple of days, that we see that kind of energy take root in the valley. I mean, that's, it's woe. I think we just case way up at night. The city, in terms of life of time, of actually the population growth, we're really young still, and we're still finding our way as a cultural city, and we have a really great opportunity. People moved here, there's this huge influx of population, it was really awkward teenage city, and that we're just now starting to like fill out and fit into ourselves a little bit more and find our place within that and like, grow into an adult place. And because we don't have hundreds of years, the other places. I love the interesting thing about the hundreds of years, and how many of you know that I'll be along these penises? Just ask your grandparents if they're still around. Do they ever play in the canals? I guess people used to water ski, right? Yeah, it was all kind of short. I'm sure. I'll help you shoes, but yeah. At least it's last week though, because I just went to the selection by now, but here at Gate R, which is very intriguing, because we are, they're expanding the light rail corridor to Mesa, and then it's so right along Main Street, Mesa, so how, you know, a product can we maybe import something, something that you're a gate arts model to Mesa to help the business that's along Main Street. I see that as a great opportunity for artists to, can I? Absolutely. I think it's a little crankier, but it's absolutely. I want to say it, just to throw it off, but you know what I'm trying to say. But actually something you've said the other night in the car, I think you said it, that you know, actually what's the meaning of it. Yeah, I think it's really important to understand how the character of the world, Phoenix in the last two or three decades, has, you know, so worked the character of its population. You have huge numbers of people who just come here part-time to be wealthy people who are really choosing to live in very, very same-like, you know, safe income class, same-color people areas. And it's also very unstable. I mean, it can house the water issue in Phoenix. I think there's tremendous potential for the arts and cultural community to really work with the environmental community in diverting all this water bringing it to a place that was really meant to be a desert. That's, you know, which it could be livable. But the idea that we spent a lot of time talking about how we have to understand an individual's context in order to work with a group of individuals. But like you're saying, we also have to understand the context of the city itself if we're trying to affect that kind of widespread change in order to really find the roots, to work from the roots of the problem. One of the reasons we have a canals is the conversation. It's a haulty log. It's not a dialogue. It's a haulty log. I think you guys touched on a really good thing that it's a young culture. Arizona, we've got a lot of, we've got kind of like a very up-and-coming kind of arts culture, we've got roots. We've definitely got a history there because we've got a lot of this new influx of just because of the ASU downtown, because of other young people coming here and arts people. It's a prime opportunity. One of the reasons why I fight whether I want to go to Arizona or stay is because it's almost, you feel like it's on the cusp of something big. It's a place where it's going to be kind of the place where people want to be. Artists and entrepreneurs, just that place. But then it's almost like you have this battle between conservative and artistic of just the people wanting things to stay the same and then the people wanting to change. And so it's that getting there and talking about it to move us forward which equates the frustrating part for most artists and entrepreneurs. And I'm gonna sum, thank you for a second too, not specifically related to you. But as there's this giant, fluffy people, what, for example, has had impacts to the Yaqui people who live in Guadalupe and this six square block area who've been there for a hundred years. You know, this is the kind of stuff that Alex and then the other people. I'm kind of curious to talk about audience and how, you know, like one, because I know a lot of the more classical, you know, have an older audience and that's how they kind of fund support themselves. And so with this talk of, you know, this potential vibrant environment that we can create with this arts and culture, like, how do you guys think or view your audience? Like, how do you guys kind of conceive that in relation to this idea of being, you know, potential to be in this great city in terms of all of our arts and culture? So, Debra, who's visiting from Seattle? Thank you so much. You're from Seattle. We have some folks here from Austin and Lubbock. Anybody else from out of town? So maybe we could, let's talk about Alex's question about audience for a minute. And then we'll, that was actually my list about in your communities, because I know I had a time that there were people from out of town. So is your question, can we engage, continue to engage the communities that already exist or how do we engage those older communities in? Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm kind of asking, like, how do we expect to create these different, like, art and culture if we don't support the sort of interest and how do we expect to support that interest in the community and gather an audience? I'm putting up my little, I've done it in a lot of different ways of like, engaging audience and some have been really successful and some have not. In terms of, I think location, part of it is such a huge thing, but one thing I've found is outside makes such a huge difference. And it's interesting that, like, for a lot of what we do, especially for those of us in performance art, we're used to being indoors, but a lot of, because we're in an area where it's always sunny almost and it's the weather's so good. A lot of the time is that I've found, through my experience at outdoors, I mean, it's a simple thing, but like outdoors, people want to be outside. They want to be engaged in something where they can not feel like they're in a closed space because of the, and it supports our environment, it supports that where others' environments would not because of the unpredictability of weather can be a huge factor in that. I feel like that's something that I would like to see us engage more as a natural practice looking at our city and where we're located. And I also feel like one thing that has been really successful is festivals around here. There's been a lot of really successful festivals where people can come, like, there's that freedom to be under and to do what they want and it's not constrained and you can tap into a bunch of different things. Those are two, I guess, examples of ways that I've seen audience success in our area as opposed to something of, like, what we need to do. We're going to the work of spring morning that Laurie talked about a lot yesterday and just sort of that piece that you said you aren't able to measure yet but you want to be able to measure which is that ripple effect and we all know an arts experience is powerful. An arts experience of any kind, whether you experience it in sort of this, the lens through which Laura was talking about with the Irrigate Project, if you experience it through some of the projects that Michael was talking about in more like a civic practice kind of way. But working consciously to give more and more people access to those experiences I think has, we hope, but we can't measure it yet, you know, has those ripple effects of participation and engagement and value. Just, you know, again, say there's no real continuity, there's not, you know, maybe there will be, maybe individual artists will be able to perform it. I think you're probably the point of view of artists who are so badly in income street and especially when you get to the point where you want to have children and you have to pay health insurance, it's really very challenging and what I really have seen around the country is where there is dedicated space for artists to convene, to work with each other, whether it's disciplinary or neighborhood or ethnicity or community-based or something, whatever. It's really created an enormous amount of community and, you know, mutual learning that so reinforces the things that people want to do and are doing. And it doesn't even have to be expensive. I mean, there's actually a huge amount of space around it's not used a long time, like churches and schools on the weekends or, but you somehow have to kind of have organization and space and it kind of, the idea of a clubhouse, originally I wanted to start to call our artist centers the artist clubhouse, but actually some of the directors of the artist centers objected because they thought it sounded like a golf club whereas I thought it sounded like the shack of the skating rink where I went as a kid, you know, every afternoon after school. You know, they go into other organizations so you're not seeing that in the building and they are doing things. They might belong to the playwright center or they'll participate. Those are all the artists. Exactly. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. People want to learn. These four audiences come together with artists where beginning wannabe artists who didn't get it in school can learn those things from seasoned artists. It's really amazing in that way. There's an apprenticeship there that is really extraordinary. And if you think about intermediate juxtaposition arts or intermatch, all of these places that are neighborhood oriented, they are doing amazing things in their neighborhood and they're building audiences and that is having that dedicated space where people feel belonging to us. Not just the artists, it's not just about the artists. It's other people who are art lovers who come to the intermediate to see performances like me or to come to the gallery and see the show. So I'm just making a pitch for that. And I also want to just totally second point for saying about it, we should ask something from artists in return and the new art home project, for instance, every artist who gets help from them, they're asked to give something back to the community. I think that is really true. Artists should really be asked to give something back. It should be formalized in something and that's a job for our funders and the other people who are supporting them. What are some of the conversations like in Seattle or in Lubbock or in Austin surrounding some of these issues of place and... Ossinary tale, if you will, or just an interesting genealogy of festivals and different types of support for the arts. I have a transplant from Manhattan to Austin and so I've learned a lot about the fine arts, the high art that's gone on there as well as kind of the community base and the vines sort of using the east side art fuel for us. But if you want to get a sense of how it's like South by Southwest, great example of a festival that started back in the... Somebody in your nose who did that for their case. South by Southwest? Yeah, it was on a 17 years ago I think? Yeah, and it was like this kind of fringed rock festival that is now a very commercial prize that everyone who has the extra $1,000 in their pocket can go enjoy. So those of us that were on 17 years ago and don't have that $1,000, we go to the South by San Jose, which is a free music at the San Jose Hotel, or we go to Gay by Gay Day to stand in an artist or we try to get it into the interactive and but it's interesting. So as South by Southwest has grown, it's also been this sort of breeding ground for a lot of other fringe festivals that are now like what South by Southwest used to be. So it's an interesting sort of contemplation of light, all this stuff. And then you've got the east side versus the west side in terms of the space. A lot of people are looking at the east side in terms of what spaces are available and how they're being used. You might go over to the next who are, who have this great work on the east side that they had forever today, that they go out to other, I saw some great pieces there. So the Rude Max or the Mechanicals, that's funny because they just got this huge prize as well. Well, that's not what's funny about it. What's funny about it is the title of this symposium got hosted because of the live streaming and why not and on Twitter. And there was a little dust up between us on Twitter about sort of gentrification and creative place making. How they're feeling, they're getting priced out of there. Maybe I just read that, Rude Max, but you can. Everyone's, everyone in the east side is concerned about losing their spaces. It is a huge concern, I found. But it's interesting, the Rude Max they've brought in now. Well, here's the interesting thing. Kirkland, one of the founders of the Rude Max is now on-time with DTUT. Which, we can talk about artists and a lot of, I mean Annie Sprink has a PhD now. So there's this idea of artists moving into the avenue that we can talk about. But long as it's open to the public. Yeah, and we actually don't have time to open that conversation today because I wanted to sort of start to wrap things up. There's an analogy or a metaphor I've been using lately of a big tent. And I think that the big tent can enclose artists' spaces and arts and community-sharing space because I think in the valley, anyway, one of the conversations we have a lot, we heard it from the collab arts team this morning, is artists in space to some places to gather together. Right now they can do that a little bit at our Fine Arts Center here on campus because they're still in school. But where do you guys get together to talk about, so if you go to other people's events but there's not a place, right? The Community Center for the Arts is more of a community center. So community people go to the Community Center for the Arts to do sort of community arts participation but artists don't go there so much. Unless you're taking a class, you're teaching the class, right? So we don't have those kind of spaces that many people use, or the kind of organizational structure that we can come to discuss. And we don't have the kind of large destination festival that Austin has. Or the depth of arts and culture that Seattle has. We have all of that, but we still have problems. Oh, no, I'm not, I'm from New York City and there's problems there too, which we're, you know, well, I still am biased and thinking of things that I realize, well, no, I don't think so. I don't think, I'm gonna use that phrase, arts and culture everywhere to say that arts entrepreneurship can happen everywhere too. Colleagues from some other arts and partnerships are listening in this weekend. They might say, that's not arts entrepreneurship. They aren't talking about starting your business. Well, starting a business is just wanting to see these opportunities, working with communities, making art for yourself and for others and getting something new out of the world, sort of all art and the need for artists and it's an opportunity for communities and it's an opportunity for artists and community under this big tent. And it requires, I mean, one of the reasons that a year ago we decided to make this the theme of the Symposium was because I had read Anne's paper and one of the key points that you make is that every project requires an initiator. It requires a person. It requires an entrepreneur. Somebody is gonna start something and see it through, actualize it. And that's sort of the connection for me. I have your statement that arts and culture is happening everywhere and I'm gonna segue because a lot of places that I come from is not happening everywhere, but it should be happening everywhere. And so I think from what I learned today and yesterday about please making and us as social entrepreneurs and arts entrepreneurs is that we need to be going in those spaces where artists are. I wanna see the ballet in South Phoenix. I wanna see the ballet on the West side and moving in these areas that we don't go to. I wanna see those communities coming together and not just a lot of times artists they'll stay together. Like we do a lot of things downtown or Scottsdale will stay in Scottsdale. They may venture out to 10 p.m. downtown. They're not gonna go that much further. So I think as us for placemaking we need to be more conscious artists and entrepreneurs of those places and making them going out of our comfort zone. We want those people to come. Don't assume that they won't come because they don't have culture or don't assume that they won't drive that far because they will, but we have to make those spaces available and welcoming to them to want to come and we have to be open and welcoming to them to come into those spaces as well. And I think that is where a sprawl is happening where everyone's staying in their pocket. We're not venturing out. And I think our should be having a better way. So let me pick up on this notion of venturing out to segue to the closing event of our symposium which is the feast on the street which is happening on First Street in downtown Phoenix. And we do wanna encourage everybody to go and it would be lovely if I'm ready to go together and Hannah Cooper, if you wanna raise your hand. Hannah Cooper is here to, among other things, help guide those of you who would like to take a light rail to the event downtown. They can travel with Hannah and she will guide you there. And with that, I will say thank you very much. I will ask that you please... Oh, the flag, the flag! Oh, yeah, you're right.