 to learn about the situation of the refugees and homeless people here in Hong Kong. So I came here to work with the homeless people and the refugees to build products out of free resources like garbage that with them to help them with their problems. So I had the opportunity to learn about the situation of the refugees and homeless people here in Hong Kong. And through the cooperation with the Maker Bay, the Justice Alliance and the Street Sleeper Alliance, I was able to really understand all of their problems in detail. And given the temperature, like it was the coldest winter in 60 years, I decided to work with the homeless people and the refugees to build a shelter and a little heater as well as some modular furniture that will help them to cope with the temperatures and maybe get some privacy given that many of the refugees and the homeless, as the name says, they sleep outside on the bridge and they're really, really cold. So I hope that will help them to keep warm and also these things are so simple to build with the resources that are at their disposal that maybe the idea catches on and they'll be able to pass the idea on. Excellent. So can you be specific and tell about a specific project that you have done? Sure. So when it was announced that it's going to get really cold, I started to cut up some tin cans to reduce kind of the heater design and then I went with the Street Sleeper Action Committee to the homeless people and gave this to them and they started to put some wood and some paper in here and started to get the fire going but given that it was raining a lot, most of it was really damp and wet so they couldn't really actually start the fire. So in the middle of the night we got the tools out and started to put air holes on the side, on the bottom in order for once you have a fire started it gets really, really hot and draws a lot of oxygen much quicker. And so we basically altered the design on the spot with the community that needed it most and they were really happy with the design as was I and they were hopefully able to spend the nights which is a little bit more heat than they would usually have. So what is the way they normally warm themselves? It's really difficult for them so what they usually do is that they put up makeshift shelters using pallets and plastic foil and they try to get as much textile as they can to cover themselves and this in combination with drugs is what they use to keep warm. I see. So there's no fire involved normally? Not because it's very difficult for them to have an open fire because people call the police and as well the traditional fire it basically doesn't really heat the surrounding most of the heat just goes up into the air and this in combination with a lot of wind which is under the bridge doesn't really make it very practical for them to use fire but giving this design most of the heat goes into the tin can so it's actually the metal that radiates the heat and that makes it a bit warmer and as well it's protected against the wind and it's kind of easy for them to put the fire out if it gets too big or if the police is coming so this design is a lot more helpful than what they traditionally use to keep themselves warm. And so you invented the design or something that existed from before? No, I'm not really an inventor as such I just hacked all existing models so there was a guy in Canada who was tinkering around soda cans and how to use them as a heater and so I took his design and altered it a little bit but as I just explained this design wasn't good enough for the people who actually needed it The material? Yeah, the designers didn't stand up to the materials they had they needed something that draws a lot more air and it would also work with damp or wet materials Very cool. Can you talk about the other things that you've done? Sure So one of the major issues that most people have is that when they build a shelter it usually gets destroyed by the police The police destroy them? Yes, because wherever you have homeless people the market value of the apartments surrounding them is dropping so the owners put pressure on the council and the council then uses the police to kick out the homeless people It's legal to have the police kick out and destroy their shelters? Yeah, because it's illegal to have permanent shelters if you don't have a permanent and so what's usually happening is that they sleep on the street with their merchant shelter and then the police comes and they destroy all the shelter and they don't just destroy it but they take all their property and throw it away to discourage them to do something foolish like building a shelter for themselves in the future You cannot use the tents like campers? It's unaffordable for them So the design behind me basically allows them to use old wood and advertisement posters in a way that they basically can just wrap it up as soon as the police comes and I'll add a little wheel on top So even if they are like older people, they are not very strong they can just wrap it up and just hold up one side and use the wheel to just get away quickly As well as the work you have done with the modular table design I hope to maybe produce some more and distribute them as well to the people that live in the cage apartment and to the homeless people because for them having something that is foldable, easily storeable is as important as it is for people living in the cage apartments A lot, so you don't know this in how much time? Two weeks Two weeks? But it's really frustrating for me because I would love to stay longer living here and working with you and the people of the Maker Bay I realize that there is so much potential and working with the homeless people and the refugee I realize that the need is so big and so diverse that even though these products are kind of cool and gimmicky it just touches the surface of the actual needs and if you don't build with the community you just build something and you give it to them that is the wrong form of charity So the best way is actually building a personal relationship with the community and build products with them and a way that they believe they invented it and they contributed to it and that will allow the community to embrace a product as a native Hong Kong product not something that's been brought to them by some white guy And so why are you not part of a big NGO and you know looking for why are you an independent I don't know are you a designer or a humanitarian aid worker why are you independent, why? I work with a lot of NGOs and I got really really frustrated about how inefficient they work how they spend a lot of money of buying new goods bringing very expensive consultants abroad that advises them on how to do very insustainable forms of aid where traditionally if the money runs out in a project the impact reduces to zero and I hope that through the approach of using local resources that are freely available and working with the local community to build solutions through them and buy them you have a sustainable project So I try to engage with NGOs as an outsider and try to convince them to improve their approach which is something I found impossible to do working within NGOs because you basically have to reach decision makers not just people who kind of work on the middle level And so working on such a scheme looking at the ways as a new form of resource and transforming to habitat and to heating and to environment do you see this as a first step into reintegration of the middle class of the society or you think that you will be creating a new type of strata and just making them more sustainable Is the goal to make this base of the pyramid available or is your idea is to bring them off the social scale? I think it can be seen in both ways On one hand if you embrace certain products and you specialize in their production you can make a living and you might be able to climb the pyramid First and foremost it's to help them with their immediate problems and to relieve some form of stress or to satisfy some form of need in a very immediate way which then gives them free time or gives them some form of comfort which allows them to focus up on their self empowerment So say if you have a homeless person and they have access to your technological inputs they are co-inventors What is your dream scenario? Is that they access this kind of early technology and what happens to them next? So they have more time to for example go to school Can you explain what's the story you have in mind? Sure So there are two possible scenarios One scenario is for example the project I've done in India where I produced a water heater with a local community now allows them to heat water in a more safe and efficient way This empowers the community to have a healthier life and also allows them to make some money whereas here I really envision that given the very steep ladder and the very steep pyramid that exists in Hong Kong it's actually quite difficult to make enough money to climb up the next step of the social strata Here I see it more like do-it-yourself gimmick that might be passed along from one homeless person to the next one I see So Hong Kong is one of the most unequal societies in the world You have the second highest concentration of a millionaire and at the same time you have about 25% of all people living under the poverty line So how do you explain that and what do you think is going to happen to a society in which extremes are stretching apart? This is a really difficult question I think that if you look at other cases like for example some cities in Brazil where you have a similar distribution you have an unequal system that becomes more unequal So I can't think of a historical example where these kind of gaps grew closer in a kind of natural, steady way but they become so wide that the only way to kind of keep on the stage to school is to build more walls, to create more security in order to guarantee that the rich become richer and the poor stay poorer However, I hope that Hong Kong will take a route where innovation and the access to knowledge allows more and more people to climb up out of poverty and it creates a more equal society that is not ruled by very, very rigidly If you ask certain anthropologists in Hong Kong they would tell you that the fact that Hong Kong has a lot of poor people is itself the engine of Hong Kong prosperity that rich people need the existence of the ultra poor in order to fuel the economy and to have a low cost personnel and so I'm just wondering how we can contribute to reduce that gap if the society in general is tracking those two extremes I think this is what you do here at the Maker Bay where you give people the opportunity to become self-sufficient where in order to access shelter, electricity or any type of good it's something that you can provide for yourself you just make it yourself you don't have to go out and spend money which basically relieves some economic pressure from the society so the best way forward is exactly what you do here at Maker Bay you create a space for people to empower themselves using materials and the tools that you provide to So you're going to keep traveling, I understand? I hope, yes How do you choose your destination and what is your next destination Sure So I choose my destination according to where I have the opportunity to work given the financial restraints I'm under I can just really work where people provide the platform for me to work This is why I'm eternally grateful for Maker Bay to have me to work here So following my stay in Hong Kong I'm going to go to India to check up on the water heater project I've done there, one and a half years ago and following India I will go back to Jordan Jordan is a very interesting country which has a lot of stress with regard to the conflicts that surround it and the resulting refugees that stream into the country I had the opportunity to go there one and a half, one year ago to work in a refugee camp to analyze the camp, what type of rubbish is available what type of needs are there and I created an approach about how you could marriage them So I'm in the process of raising funds to go to Jordan and work there for six months in order to build products with the community that helped them which will result in a product catalog where NGOs or people who want to do charity all over the world just have to look in the community, what are their needs what resources do they have and then they can use the catalog in order to find an innovative solution to these problems That's wonderful And so you made clear at the beginning that there's a big difference in how you work almost as an individual NGO like you're only one person but you're kind of an NGO of your own and so is it something that you think is replicable do you think we could generate more George type of people? Absolutely, it's just a matter of convincing people that the status quo is unsustainable and we have to experiment and find different ways of helping people and the best way is not to create an organization that spends a lot of money on administrative costs but the best way is to send out people into the world and let them experiment in very different ways about how to empower people that is as far as possible from the current status quo which is very unsustainable and creates more dependency instead of people that empower themselves But to be a person like you are you're like a humanitarian mercenary almost you're going... you go with this opportunity and the need but that requires a lot of votes or how do you... what kind of quality does a person need to have to be George so a person is going to be watching this video and I'm like wow this is so cool like that I want to have these votes and I want to go in this country just by myself and help people where do you find a resource in you to do that? I think this is just that even though I'm like the main guy in the organization it's not really me who does the work I try to facilitate it so wherever I go I find supporters people that believe in me and that support my project otherwise I wouldn't go in the first place so my biggest advice for people is that the only thing you need to do is go out and ask for help So you go to provide help but you ask for help? Absolutely because you don't go somewhere and say I know what's best for people and then you just force it up on people you go to a place you ask can I come you ask who might be interested in helping me are there people already who do something familiar people who think outside the box and by asking for help as somebody who wants to provide help you get extra access to the community and materials that you need to work with so to see yourself as somebody that is kind of removed from the community that goes into the community is I think the wrong approach you're part of a global civil society and you have to take advantage of this global civil society because you don't know how to do a specific aspect of your work and by just asking over and over for people to help you you will become an army not a mercenary That's beautiful I think a lot of people who wish they were doing what you're doing I think a lot of people would want to have this courage but a lot of people are afraid that if they go so much to help but they also ask for help they are afraid to become a burden to the people they want to help Absolutely and this is so important that you have this fear like nothing is worth going somewhere and actually use more resources than you provide and this should be at the forefront of everything you do and there is no easy answer so how do you not become a burden because I think what I want is that people see the video and they go this guy is supposed to do it and he said openly that he is calling for help so how do you not become a burden so that doesn't mean that when you're going there you're bringing your own water and your own tablets and you're like a superman how do you not become a burden to the community trying to help The best way whenever you receive help or whenever you approach somebody you are very determined to share so you don't give it's an exchange so when I came here I really hope to help make a baby become bigger and better and attract more people and in return I received a lot of advice and the access to this amazing resource and this is kind of how I do it wherever I go I always swap I don't when I went to the homeless people with the heater I was aware that it's not a good design so I went there and asked how can I make this better to serve you so they showed me about how to actually do a proper heater out of a soda can in exchange quite a lot of heaters soda can heaters with exactly the design they require so this that you're talking about right now to me is even more precious than the catalog you're talking about is the method so now that you're starting to reveal it can you go a little bit more in depth do you have a systematic way so what is it so there is a course of the MIT which is called human-centered design and this course together with an organization called ideal they set up a catalog about how you engage with the community and really find out what their problems are in a very diverse way so I use this catalog in order to engage with the community to really understand what are their problems obviously I don't go there myself because I can't speak the language so I engage with a lot of organizations and universities and people from the community who do this work so when they go out and they do their research I'm the one analyzing their research but before I do that I make them very conscious about what it means to be a researcher not just somebody who asks a question a specific narrative in mind but somebody who is nearly like an anthropologist or like a scientist that doesn't have any prejudices and the most interesting part of this research is always the taboo it's always exactly what they don't want to talk about it's exactly the problem that they are so ashamed of that they would never share it with an outsider like me because in tackling this kind of issues you you have a much stronger impact so once this research is done I compile it in a quite academic research report which for example entails I ask the researchers to take pictures of each problem or each solution they found then I filter these pictures and create geotech maps that allows me to see this problem more prevalent in this part of the community geographic part of the community or the solution is implemented in this part but not in this part and that allows me to ask more critical questions and I create word clouds from the quantitative part of the questionnaire that people ask in order to see what issues more prevalent for people because you should never try to solve a problem that is not perceived as a problem in the community itself and then I create a lot of mind maps to understand the relationship of the problems because you don't want to cure a symptom you want to cure a core problem exactly a root cause so in doing so you create a relationship with the community so you go there so often you ask the same questions all over again that people naturally become curious why do you really want to know that and through this process you identify specific stakeholders in the community somebody who might be the father figure or mother figure of the community you identify who is the most vulnerable within the community this analysis of the stakeholder and the combination of the analysis of the problems allows you to do the implementation of a specific design where you gather all these stakeholders together and work with them and tackling one, two or three specific problems and you provide them with the free materials so you basically dump a whole pile of rubbish in front of them and you ask them so how are we going to solve shelter using these resources and and then you try to nudge them towards a specific solution and they will follow your lead partially and then they will resist and this is something where there is no methodology anymore and then they come up with seduction and threats and dates and banana and chocolate and then they come up with something absolutely amazing, something that's better than you even thought might be the solution and then you're done and basically they take it and they run with it because it's not your baby anymore they put all their effort all this sweat into this process by George, kind of we got a solution go that's Germany and this is sustainable development because you actually have people protecting a solution for themselves where you are actually perceived as somebody who doesn't need it anymore and this is for somebody who tries to provide aid or development that's the biggest compliment okay so what is the favorite way for you to work? Do you like people sending emails saying hey I'm in Syria and I'm in a camp and people are dying because there's no shelter and no water? Do you like to receive these emails that you prefer hey we are a big non-profit and we're struggling to deploy into a new place do you like people sending you hey I'm a homeless guy and I've seen you doing this and can you provide you money? You want people to reach out to you? Absolutely So how do people reach out to you and what are the conditions necessary for you to be able to go in these places and do your work? What do you need from them? I need honesty I need to know exactly what their angle is in this I receive sometimes emails from people that are in these situations and I just give them designs because there is no need for me to be there whatsoever On the other hand if there are organizations that are interested in my work I'm very very critical because I made a lot of negative experiences with big NGOs and small NGOs about why they might be interested in this type of work so if you're interested in these type of solutions because it's good for the next fundraising round then this is absolutely fine as long as you're transparent with me So yeah please reach out send me a very honest email go on my website innovation.co and and all the resources I gathered, all the methodology I've collected, you will find there so if there is something I can do in person just invite me to come give me a mattress, maybe a couch and a couple of tools and I'll be happy to work with you as long as you provide full transparency Thanks so much George Oh, thank you It's been amazing to have you as McLean residents for McLean program and we hope that we can continue to work if you think that Hong Kong has a lot of relevant work for you to do and we'd be very happy to support you in those endeavors I can't thank you enough and I would encourage anybody who might consider applying to this program to do so because when I approached you I literally sent you an email and asked for your help and there is no there is no right or wrong way of doing that just do it