 Have you developed an abusive relationship with exercise? Watch this. Our next caller is Rachel from California. Hi, Rachel. How can we help you? How are you guys? What's happening? Not much. First of all, I just want to thank you guys for everything that you do. And for the, uh, you know, the real high quality content you guys put out. Um, I've been listening for a couple of years and it took me a while to jump on to the resistance training train. Um, I'm a former, I guess, cardioholic, if you would call it. Um, and I just, you know, cardio was my thing. I needed the endorphin rush. Um, anything that wouldn't get me that was off the charts. And so I've recently started doing resistance training and I've been enjoying it a lot. So thank you guys for that. Awesome. Great. Yeah. Um, okay. I want to give you guys a little bit of a context before I ask my question because I think giving you a little bit of background will be helpful in any kind of where I'm coming from. Um, I, growing up, I never struggled with any type of disordered eating or, um, addiction to exercise. I was raised in a very, uh, untraditional childhood. Um, I was born into a very, uh, ultra religious Orthodox Jewish family. Um, and my dad is the head rabbi of a very large community in Southern California. Um, and so we were brought up in a typical Jewish home. I had a very Jewish mother and, um, you know, the Jewish culture is if you love me, you'll feed me. And so I'm one of eight. Um, and we would come home every night after school and there would be eight dinners waiting for us because we all like different foods. And so, you know, mom would kind of cook whatever we all wanted. Um, I went to a, an all Jew, an all Jewish girl's school, essentially. So I grew up with very like minded girls. Um, body image was never an issue. Um, we, uh, I guess I hovered around 145, 150 since I stopped growing. Um, but it never really bothered me because we were so sheltered from social media. We were so sheltered from the world. We were, you know, we didn't watch movies. We didn't read English books. And so body image just didn't exist fast forward. After high school, um, I was set up in an arranged marriage, which is pretty common in the orthodox culture. Um, I met the man that I was supposed to marry, uh, when I was right at 18 and then a month later we were married. So, um, the night of my wedding, I got pregnant. Um, and you know, first year I want to say into my marriage, everything kind of just hit me. Uh, I realized how miserable I was in this world and this marriage and this religion, um, everything I felt like I was doing. Ultimately, I felt like I was doing for my parents, not for me. And I've got a kid and I'm married to someone I don't know. Uh, nothing. I was just numb. So I took on a hobby and that was exercising. I started running. Um, I loved the feeling that running gave me, it was an escape for me. Um, I started hit training. Again, I loved that endorphin rush and exercise was essentially what I would do to escape my reality. Um, at the same time, I started restricting the food that I was eating. I gave up all animal protein, then I started giving up eggs. Um, giving up carbs over time. I went from that 145 weight down to about 104. Um, I was very lean. Uh, I exercised in the beginning, started about an hour a day until it got to about five hours a day and nothing less than that was acceptable to me. Uh, it almost felt like I was punishing myself for the life that I was living, uh, in an odd way. Um, but that went on for over 10 years. Um, I've got three kids. Uh, and about two years ago, I left the marriage and essentially left the religion too. Um, I started, you know, adapting a very healthy way of eating and exercising. I've incorporated a lot of food back into my diet. I trimmed down the exercise from five hours, you know, to three hours, two hours gone over like the last two years. So I'm currently at one hour a day. Um, I do mind pump aesthetic for three days a week. Uh, the other days I do my cardio, I'll go for runs. Um, do my steps, you know, whatever feels right that day. But I know that I've done a lot of damage to my immune system, to my gut, uh, to my body during those 10 years. So, uh, I've tried to incorporate a lot more protein into my diet, a lot more food, but my stomach can't really handle it. Um, in the beginning it just, it was almost impossible to eat that much. Um, but I've gone to a place now where I'm able to eat the amount of protein that I should be eating. Um, you know, not enough, but I'm working towards that. In regards to the exercise that I'm doing, um, you know, I told you it's the mind pump and then the cardio. The last couple of months, I want to say it just feels like everything's breaking down. My body's breaking down. I don't have energy for those runs anymore. You know, my heart rate is just elevated more than it's ever been. Um, I just, I feel tired, um, constantly. And so ultimately my question is those, you know, 10, 12 years, I know that I've done a lot of damage to my body. I also know that it's tied to some type of, you know, trauma of my past. And I'm wondering now in my mind, you know, I've, I'm eating more. I've cut back to about an hour a day only. Um, but I can't seem to find that the place where I feel rested and ready. And, you know, ultimately that the, you know, the results of the work that I'm putting in, I'm not, I'm not really seeing it. So I guess my question is, is, you know, I'm, I'm worried to take a full time, you know, a full on break. I don't want to do that. Um, but given, you know, my past and the history and where I am now, I want to know your thoughts on if I'm not, you know, let's say I'm not eating enough to sustain the muscle growth that I would want or that I'm putting in the work for, um, or I'm just, you know, I'm pushing my body into the ground. Where do you think I got, I should go from here? Rachel, are you, um, first, before I let Sal lecture you, are you in, are you in a place, uh, where you're ready to receive that? Because that's a guarantee all the guys, I mean, we probably could have answered your question about halfway through, on what you need to do right now and the answers to why you're seeing what you're seeing right now. The question really comes down to, um, are you in a place right now where you're ready to receive that advice and follow through on it? Or do you feel like, uh, you, you're, you're reaching out to us just to hopefully tell you that we, you can do more of something else. You might know it intrinsically. I know what you guys are going to tell me. I know what Sal's going to lecture me in, um, you know, calories. I need a reverse diet myself. I mean, I couldn't write the script myself. Yeah, yeah. That's why I'm asking. I, I took a week off of exercising because I thought that that would share all my problems and clearly it did not. Yeah. Um, I, I don't know honestly that I can commit to any longer than that of taking a break. I don't, I don't necessarily think he's going to tell you that you've got to stop everything. Rachel, let me ask you a question. Hi, Sal. Hi, how are you? How are you doing? Here it comes. Hey, look, uh, by the way, congratulations for being able to get where you're at now and talk about, um, you know, kind of everything that you went through and the way you did, um, you've helped a lot of people. Okay. Right now, just because you're on our show. So I appreciate it takes courage to do that. What, what are you worried about? What are you afraid of if you, because you said, I don't know if I can do less than an hour a day. What, what, what is the fear? Here's my mind. The fear is what I'm going to tell myself all day. The fear is, you know, I've become the harshest critic of myself. And it's constant. It's constant noise in my head. Yeah. You need to work out. You need it. Why aren't you working out, right? You're working out. And then it just goes on all day until ultimately I'm just, I just want to shut it up. And so I work out. Yeah. Yeah. I know what that feels like. Are you, um, are you working with, uh, a therapist? I've been working with a therapist. We've been going through, you know, all the past trauma and look, that's going to take years to, right. Um, I guess I wonder if, if there's any way that my exercise or my eating is tied to more than just, you know, the body being tired and mortgaged. Yes. Yes. It's a, it's, and by the way, it's not, it's less of a punishment punishment thing. It's more of a control thing. Yeah. It's total control. That's, so you're, it's control. You've developed a relationship with exercise where you, you, you abuse it, um, like a drug. Um, and it sounds like you're getting, you're running away from something when you do it. And so without that, like you said, your fear is like, what am I going to tell myself, what am I going to do in that hour? How am I going to operate? Um, so I understand that. So, okay. First off, um, you have 15 years of trauma. Yeah. Okay. And, and, and that's, there's a lot there. I mean, you told us the tip of the tip of the iceberg. I'm sure, right? So there's 15 years of trauma. A big part of it is you abusing yourself. Um, and then there's other stuff that goes along with that. Okay. A week off isn't going to even come close to addressing that. You know, three years off isn't going to do that. And I'm not going to tell you to take time off, but what I, what I am saying to you is what's driving the way you're feeling right now is, is, it has to do with your, your mind. Some people would say the spirit, but it's the mind that's driving all of this. And the mind is probably impacted your gut in the way that it has now. Well, you got bad gut health. I would work with a functional medicine practitioner for gut health. So you got to do that. Um, and as far as exercise is concerned, I, I, I know what program I would recommend to you, but you're going to probably want to do something every single day. Is there something you can do in replace of the workout for that hour? Is there anything you can do that, like, would you be open to doing a yin yoga class on those days that you're, uh, you know, on the days where you're not going to be lifting? It's so boring. I know. I know. Do you, do you play music? Do you have any other hobbies, a hobby that you like? I do have hobbies, but my hobbies are boxing, running. No, no, no, you don't get any of those ones. Okay. Look, here's what I want. There's no knitting, knitting or reading books or anything. I'm not going to get it. Look, I'm sitting still. Anything that's, you know, honestly, I don't really love hiking because it's very slow paced, right? Yeah. Hiking is slow paced. There's no way in hell I'm going to do a yin yoga class. I just, I can't. All right. All right. Look, I'm going to, I'm going to, look, I'm going to sell you differently. Okay. You either do, either do what I'm about to tell you, or you're going to be forced. And I don't mean I'm going to come force you. You're going to start to run into some problems. I'm already running into those problems. Okay. I don't, or they're going to get worse. They're going to get a lot worse. Things are going to get a lot louder. You're, the signs are going to get a lot louder. You're going to suffer more. Your children are going to suffer as a result. Maybe that'll motivate you. So the only way, the only way to get to the other end is to go through. Okay. You can't go around and you can't avoid it. You got to go through. So what does that mean? What am I talking about? What the advice I'm going to give you is going to suck really bad for probably a year. It's just going to suck a lot of shit's going to come up. You're going to be like, I got, I got to do it this way. I really want to do it the way I did it before. Uh, you're going to start to feel better. That's really going to want you to go back. It's going to push you to go back to what you were doing before, especially as you start to feel better. So here's what I'm going to recommend. Maps Aesthetic is the wrong program for you. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to have you do Maps Anabolic. I want you to follow Maps Anabolic. The two day a week version, not the three day a week version, the two day a week. This, I'm giving you the perfect advice. Okay. This is like, like, this is what I want you to do. Okay. I wish I could train you because I would just coach you the whole time. But Maps Anabolic, two day a week version on the other days, I want you to find a restorative something. Yen yoga is a good example. Can we give her, can we give her a maps performance to go with it and have her do the mobility sessions? I think the flow work and stuff in there would give her something that makes her feel as long as you don't turn the mobility sessions into circuit training. Well, no, it's not hard to do that. Well, I mean, you could do a fast as hell. I mean, that will keep her mind busy. It's challenging enough to where she has like a goal she can set and work on. It's, it's the intensity is low enough. It'll be recuperative and it will keep her. Do you, do you have the, is it feasible for you to hire a yoga instructor so you could do one on one? Yeah, that's feasible. You know, I, I mean, I just as feasible for me to do it alone, right? Or go to a yoga class and do it. I just, I never have the style of exercise. Yeah. No, I'm not talking about feasible in terms of, can you like, like in terms of the cost? Cause it's, it's more expensive, right? To do a one on one instructor. Here's why I think a yoga instructor would be better. You're going to be more accountable. They're going to be able to coach you through the process and a really good yoga instructor really knows how to work with the mind. They really know how to calm the mind. A lot of breathing techniques. Yeah. And you're going to need that. A lot of shit's going to come out. Like, okay, don't be surprised if you cry often in yin yoga with a good instructor. And if that happens, you're supposed to happen. Okay. I would do yin yoga. I would do maps on a ball of two days a week. And then I'd work with a functional medicine practitioner for diet because you got some gut stuff that needs to get addressed. Okay. Now what I'm saying isn't going to be easy. A lot of stuff's going to come up. It's going to be challenging, but I promise you on the other end of this, you're going to be like, wow, this is so different. This is so different, a lot better. So I'm going to add some stuff to this just because if I had you as my client, I would 100% agree with Sal because I'd be in control of it every day. My fear is taking you from everything you're doing down to two days a week and yin yoga, which you already professed you are not a fan of my fear is that you're not going to stick to it longer than a week or two. So I would want to peel you down slowly. I would want to take you to anabolic three days a week with mobility days on the other day. So you're still got this kind of feeling of you're doing active, but I know you're you're dramatically reducing the intensity. And then my goal would be to get you to where Sal wants you because right now I think you're so far on the right of extreme with the at the exercise that the rip off the band-aid thing you want her to do right now without having somebody holding her hand all the way through. Here's the thing Rachel's saying right now that the signs are already showing up. She hasn't told us what they are, but based off of the energy I'm getting from what she's saying, it sounds like we're in a bit of a dire situation. Am I am I am I resonating? Yes, yes, you are resonating as far as the signs, however, you know, the week that I took off of exercising, I was a mess. You know, I was I was angry. I was moody. I couldn't be a mom. I couldn't work. I've got, you know, I have three kids and that one week I felt bad for my kids. It was, you know, they were suffering with me because I couldn't be present for them because of my own shit that I had going on. And that's why I don't know that I can do a year. I don't. Rachel, how familiar are you with what withdrawal looks like from from substances? Not that familiar. Have you ever known a friend who had to stop doing something like opiates or alcohol or cigarettes even? OK, the withdrawal symptoms are really bad at first. They don't last a year, not even close. So, yeah, it's going to suck at first. That's what you're experiencing is withdrawal. And what's coming up is all the stuff that you're bearing and distracting yourself on. But here's the problem. OK, this is the myth. The myth is that you're actually keeping keeping it at bay and solving it. No, because what's happening is it's still under the surface and it's coming out without your permission. OK, it's coming out in other ways. It's it's it's still acting below the surface. It's actually more insidious because it's more subconscious. When you when you go through withdrawal, it's more of a conscious awareness like, oh, fuck, I feel like this, I'm acting shitty. I'm irritable. When you bury it, stuff it and distract. It's still pulling the strings. It's just in a way that you're not aware of and you're still doing stuff that's not great. So and withdrawal does not last forever at all. It's going to suck at first really bad. Then it gets easier and it gets easier and it gets easier. So I'm sorry, how long do you think it would last for? I think if you if you followed what we said, if you let your therapist know what you're doing and you did the yoga and you found a good instructor, I think you would have a very good. I think you would feel very cathartic by the second or third week. Definitely by the second month. Are you not on Rachel? Are you on social media at all? Are you on Instagram, Facebook? Are you on any of that stuff? Yeah, where I'm going to put you in our form, too. So I mean, I would like to to stay in touch with you as you go through this, just it's so hard to be able to sit here and try and tell you like, oh, this long and then you're going to feel great. Like it's, you know, it may not even take a year, but it may take longer. It's like, but for sure, what is not going to help is going back and then continuing to punish your body. I don't know where I'm at with, like, if I think that going all the way to what Sal is saying is the path or it is to slowly taper you down or not. But no matter what, you've got to head in that direction. You've got to start taking steps in the direction of taking care of your body instead of punishing it through exercise because it's it's revolting already and it's going to revolt anymore. That doesn't mean you need to stop it all. It just means we need to choose things that are less punishing and taxiing on the body and more things that are going to feed you, feed your soul, feed your body, take care of your body. And so we need to find that right balance and you're really far on one side right now. And I got to bring you back to the other side. Yeah. And I mean, listening to all this advice and it's it's a really tough one to prescribe. But I I really do feel like if a personal coach, you know, somebody that can kind of be constantly there to communicate with you in terms of like that intensity factor, because you're going to be driven to want to do everything intensively and to sort of let it out and to to be able to to work your way through and find, you know, a different approach and a different way to do it where it's restorative. So I understand where Sal's going with the in yoga and I understand how difficult that's going to be for you mentally to shift into that kind of a mindset. And I think that, you know, either one of us would, you know, love to personally, you know, kind of guide you through that whole process. And I think that there's somebody out there like that. But I think, you know, within our forum, we know some we know somebody. I'm going to tell where in California are you in the Canoe Valley, Agora Hills? Well, no, I know we know somebody virtually. I don't want to say over just in case that their schedule is too full. Rachel, I'm going to save your contact info and I'll have somebody contact you. That's a really good online coach that we know personally that could kind of help you along the way. Yeah. I appreciate all of that. I think my response to all of that simply is, you know, my workouts have really just been my saving grace. My, you know, the last 15 years of my life and they're the one thing that just may be able to just go on every day. Yeah. And I. That's why I don't that's why I don't want to take it away from you. I just want to change it a little. Yeah, we're just looking. That's why I just want to change it a little. I don't want to take your workouts away. I want you to do it every day. You're just three days a week. It's lifting weights and strength training. And then the other four days, it's mobility. You wanted to build you up, not to punish you. Yeah. That's that's where we want to get. Yeah. This this I get. Look, I get where you're where you're coming from. I can definitely go in and out of a relationship with exercise that way. So I know what it feels like. Um, I get it. It's definitely doing something, but it's it's it's not working anymore. It's doing it's doing the opposite now of what you want it to do. So yeah, that's the hard part. It's like, I want to do it and I want to feel good and I want to have that relationship with it, but it's just fighting me. Rachel, I also want you to know that you are not an anomaly. This is not not something that I have not personally dealt with with clients before. You'll get through this. You're going to make it through this. You will. Okay. I've been excommunicated from my family, my community. You know, it's very much an alone feeling and you're not alone. We were with you. Okay. We're with you. I'm going to put you in the form. I want you to, if you communicate with me, I'm going to communicate with you. Okay. So you're not alone. You will get through this. Okay. Really, really what it is right now and what we're all spinning our wheels around is like, where to start you and how do we guide you virtually right now? If I had you, I'd take you. I got you. There's no way I would, you would not get through this if I didn't have you right by my side. One step at a time. You're right now you're going to, you're going to heal yourself. It's one step at a time. Okay. It sounds like there's a lot of things there you want to work on. But in order to tackle all those other things we need to, you need to be healthy and happy Rachel. So let's heal you first. Okay. Look how far you've come by yourself. You've, you've got this. You will. We're going to say, I'm going to have, I'm going to have somebody contact you. Okay. We got your, I think we got your email. So I'll have somebody contact you and hopefully it works out because they're really good online coaches and they can help you with this process. We'll be in touch today. Okay. You guys, I really appreciate it. All right, Rachel. Thanks, Rachel. Thank you. You got it. That's hard. Yeah. Yeah, that's really tough. I mean, look, man, I wish she was close. She was close. I'd take her right now. Yeah. That's, that's rough. That's, uh, um, she's developed this, you know, it's like, it's like an abusive relationship with exercise. It's like you're with this person and you're afraid to leave them, but you have to because they're, this is also a major control thing. When you, when you grow up in a very religious family where you've done everything, then everyone's been telling you what you need to do your whole life. You don't do what you want. This is the one thing you have, it's your one thing you've had full control of. Nobody's telling you how to eat. Nobody is telling you how to exercise. You have decided that. And so more of it, harder of it, you get to do that. And so it's letting go of some of that control. Um, that's why I, that's why I thought you were too far, bro, to two days a week with, I mean, we are, we literally get minutes. I know, I know, and I know, I know your desire. I mean, that's my goal. Yeah. It's just to tell her the answer, which you would never do in coaching. If I'm working with someone, I'm not going to just give you the, I'm like, we're going to work on this step by step. Yeah. And there's also other people. There's a lot of the reveal as we're doing the work, right? Listen, Rachel, we hung up, we hung up with you and we were not satisfied with the, the help that we, we, I mean, we tried helping you, but we thought we wanted to give you more. So here's what we did. Okay. We contacted our friend Christina. She's an excellent coach, excellent. She's a licensed therapist, but she's also works with people with nutrition and exercise. And what we did is we hired her for you for the next three months. So she's going to walk, she's going to walk you through this process. Okay. Because yes, I promise. So she's exceptional. She's really, really good. We want to help you out. And that was the person that I was kind of alluding to when we were talking to you, Adam got her on the phone and, um, and she's, she'd love to work with you. She's a friend of ours and we will be in contact with her also. So by extension, we're going to be working with you now. I really appreciate that, you guys. That's, uh, that's, that's honestly something that I've never, you know, no, I've spoken to a therapist about my past, but never really about this issue and combining the two, you know, so hopefully it'll, it'll work. And just having someone to talk to you, honestly, I think it's going to be the best motivator. That's why she's going to be perfect. Because that's what, that's what we were thinking is like, she specializes in exactly that. And that's what you need right now is somebody to be able to talk to you and communicate all these things. And then also be able to help you through the exercise and nutrition portion, because that's equally as important. So, uh, I'm going to, uh, do you want to, you want to give her a number or you want to have her call? No, I'll have Christina call you, uh, she's mind, uh, what is it? Mind of matter mindset of matter mindset of matter on Instagram and mindset of matter.com is her website. She's phenomenal. She's going to contact you. We've already talked to her and, uh, now you have somebody there that's going to walk you through the process. So, and we want to see you succeed really bad. So, yeah. Okay. I did that. You guys really, thank you. Okay, you got it. We're going to give her your number right now. So be on the lookout or her name's Christine. Okay. Mindset of matter coaching mindset of matter coaching. That's it. Okay. And it's Christina. To Doug, God, I don't know if Doug has my number. I do have your number. I called you earlier. Oh, that's right. You did. Okay. Sorry. Yes. So yeah, we're going to have it. We're going to have her call you and then, uh, she's in it. Whatever you, we told her whatever you need as far as coaching on her end for the next three months, mind pump, take care of it. Okay. Wow. Thank you. Thank you guys. That's, that's awesome. All right, Rachel, we'll be in touch. Thank you. All right. You have a good day. Take care of yourself.