 Thank you. Thanks. All right. So I think the talk was about UX considerations in property real estate. But what I really want to talk about is how we actually help people find their homes. First, a little bit about me. So I actually have a lot more experiences in the telco sector where I worked for 12 years and what also made me come to Singapore. But I'm with property guru here in Singapore for a year now and I have to say I have learned a lot. But when I first got contacted about the job I was like, property really doesn't sound that sexy, right? It's not fintech, it's not what everybody is talking about. So when I looked into it, actually there is nothing that's more valuable on the world than the global real estate sector. So this is not a typo, this is in trillion USD. So all the property in the world, it's kind of owned all the land, all the forest. This is what all of it is together. It's 207 trillion USD. Compared to the little one over there, all gold evermined only comes up to 6 trillion gold still. Quite a lot. A lot of it might be a bubble and if you kind of talk to economists they will tell you yes, but and maybe the numbers looked a little bit different in 2008. This is from 2016, might be a little bit different now. But so property is a huge thing. Moving on. And also here, especially in Asia Pacific, we see a lot of prop tech. Yes, we also had to call it like that. There are about 180 prop tech startups in Asia Pacific. There is a lot of the investments that are coming in, kind of happens here in this region. A lot of it is in China, but also the majority of investments are in marketplaces and brokerage, in rental spaces, etc. There is a lot of very really interesting kind of business ideas going on. So we are where property group place is kind of the lower border here. It's about brokerage, it's about leasing, it's about listings, what we do. There is a lot in property management. How can we make it easier for people living in condos to access their facilities? How can we make it easier for developers to manage all their properties, etc. Coming up to project development, there is a lot of insights, a lot of data that's kind of going in there. Because when I build as a property developer, when I start building my project today, it takes a few years. Will it still be a good neighborhood? Will it still have all the supermarkets, etc. coming up? Does it have the right kind of people? Does it have the right audience, etc. And I think on top of it is definitely investment and financing, both for developers, for agents, but also for consumers. Okay, so I want to go through a few of the drivers for why PropTech is kind of hot. Obviously, there is a huge organization going on in Asia. I think this is not used to anybody here. 40 out of the 46 most rapidly developing cities are in Asia. The drivers here, mainly India and China, but Southeast Asia is kind of big. The second one is kind of interesting. So the middle class in all of those countries and the millennials, which is actually one of the biggest generations, they are in their prime spending years. That means how many of you in here think you all fall into the millennial category pretty much? How many of you have considered buying a property or bought a property recently? Quite a few. If you're a Singaporean, it's probably easier than if you're from a nice Singapore. But also when it comes to property, because it's a super-duper high-ticket item, it basically has a lot to do with trust. So you actually don't go on an e-commerce portal and say, oh yeah, I want to have that kind of white t-shirt, I want to have that house, and say, yeah, click checkout, right? So people kind of do have trust issues and they do definitely prefer the kind of personal touch. They want to talk to an agent, they ask their family for advice, et cetera, right? And also I think because we are not only in Singapore, but in other markets, people do not necessarily trust the information that they have or that they might not have or the government, right? So when we do research, for example, in Indonesia, people have questions like, yeah, but is this a flat area where you kind of develop that new project? Or does that person who says he actually owns this resale apartment really own it? Because legal documents are not always for sure. So there is a lot of trust issues and also the kind of societies here, they are sometimes really low-trust societies that we operate in. One of the next things that is kind of interesting for the whole prop tech industry is that there is selective support from governments positively and negatively. That kind of impacts us. So for example, if you think about Airbnb in Singapore, the question always is, can I do it? Is it legal, et cetera? Then there is a lot of more positive support. For example, thinking about Bitcoin and everything that's kind of coming up with what Irina talked about earlier, open APIs and all those kind of things. So all those are considerations that we kind of have to take into account when we talk about prop tech in general. One thing that hit us really hard, very recently for you, or not really hard, but it hit us, cooling measures in Singapore. Anybody knows what it is? Nope, so the government, yes, one person, thank you. So basically what happened is that the property prices in Singapore were rising up due to kind of, I think, several on-block sales, big sales, and lots of people are coming kind of in the market. And what the government did to kind of avoid creating a huge bubble, creating too much demand, is that they put in cooling measures. That means basically when you want to buy a property now, or a second property, you have to pay a lot more in Texas. So that kind of dampens the market and it dampens our traffic, et cetera. All right, but I think enough about the market ecosystem. How do we actually help you find your home? Because as I mentioned, helping people find their home, or basically making the decision of finding a home, is something that you do one, two, maybe three times in a life, like marriage, or having kids, et cetera. So it's quite a big decision. And most of the people, especially here in the region, are basically on the verge of kind of buying their first home. And they need a lot of help. And they need a lot of trust. They need a lot of kind of trusted sources where they can find more information. So when we talk about design in Property Guru, we talk about designing for trust. This is kind of really, really simplified our business model. So we have consumers who give us their time, their effort, their data. And in turn, we hopefully help them to facilitate to find their home. On the other side, we have property agents and developers who give us their money to advertise on our platform, to have their listings there, to have their banners there. And in return, what we give them is hopefully growth for their business. But the currency that is all underlying and the underlying principle is trust. Our company vision is also trust. So we want to be the trusted advisor for every person seeking property. That doesn't mean only consumers. It means agents and it means property developers as well. But this is what basically guides our design and UX in general. So this is pretty much the framework that we kind of think about when we design something new. Very simple. Starting from the bottom here, we say, okay, whenever we create something or we design something, first of all, it needs to be functional. So what that means, yeah, it needs to kind of fill basic usability standards. You need to be accessible. You need to be findable, et cetera. The layer on top of that is convenience. This is when kind of good UX really starts. When we say, okay, it doesn't only work, but it's also easy to use. It's simple. It does what it wants and it's kind of convenient for me to use. But when we come into the two upper parts, this is where it kind of gets hard. So when we talk about pleasurable, how many experiences have you ever used that were kind of pleasurable? How many do you remember? How many do you know about what is kind of an experience that you remember? For example, it's not always necessarily a product that you have used, right? For example, I was recently taking a flight to the U.S. with Eva Air, and they have this amazing experience when you take their Hello Kitty airline. So basically at the check-in, you get Hello Kitty tickets. You get Hello Kitty everything, right? In the plane, the cutlery is Hello Kitty. What do you do? You kind of share all those things. It's in your memory. It's really amazing. My little daughter, four years old, she still talks and wants, oh, can I please fly with the Hello Kitty plane again? So this is a pleasurable experience. It didn't cost much and was mainly marketing, but still people will remember. And then the kind of part that we put on top is trust, right? So how do we design for trust? How do we make sure we don't fuck up your experience ever, right? Yes. If you do that once, it says in any relationship, if you do it once, it's really, really hard to get it back, right? And I think this is one of the truths of design, right? If you fuck it up once, it's really hard to get it back. This is what we're trying to achieve, not always, right? So most of the time, 80% enough of our products, 80% of the time you use it, this is enough, yeah? Because otherwise, if we would always go the full way, it would take us forever to get anything done or get anything out because you need to do a lot more research, you need to go a lot deeper into what is trust actually mean, what is your context that you're designing for. So most of the time, this is good enough, especially in the super fast-paced sort of world that we operate in. So this is the 20%. And actually, as I thought, instead of sharing some principles, blah, blah, blah, I want to share some examples of what we did and how we basically designed for trust. So the first one, if you go on our product, which is our main site, what do you see? Not so great images, we all love those. So our number one consumer complaint is, I don't want to see that. I want to see the actual unit. I want to see that actual apartment, right? We know that. But what you actually see is that, right? And those are not examples that are specifically curated. I just went to our site one day and took out some photos. So this is actually how it really looks. And I have to say we are all aware of this. We actually are doing something against. So what do we do? We could basically say, no, no, no, you cannot do that anymore at all. But there is a need for agents as well. We are a marketplace. We not only have consumers, we have agents. So what is the need for agents here? We think about, oh, I want to show my face. I want to show my phone number. I want to market myself. This morning when I came in, I saw an agent who kind of bought a whole kind of back of a bus to market himself. There is no listing. There is no apartment. There is only the agent face and his phone number, which is, wow, okay, it must be a very successful agent. So how do we work around that? So we have introduced something that's a quality, what we call quality photo guide. So it's basically artificial intelligence or image moderation through machine learning. Because what we have, we have 17K photos alone that are uploaded every day in Singapore and you cannot moderate them. So what we did is we trained our quality photo guide to basically detect all those images. We don't want collages. We don't want anything kind of written on top of images. We don't want broken images. We don't want faces or floor plans. All those on floor plans, all those kind of things. We don't want nudes. Actually we, earlier this year, no, no, no other jokes. We have recently had to train our system to detect nudes. Earlier this year, I think it actually made it into the news. Somebody had the great idea to kind of take photos of his apartment and strip and forgot about the mirror. So it happens. So it's now also detecting those kind of things. But what we didn't do is we didn't enforce it. So what we do is we are trying to tell the agents when they create their listings, when they upload the images, what is a good image? So for example, at the point of uploading, we tell them, do use that. Do use something bright. Don't use, put your name or your face over it. Don't use collages, et cetera, right? And actually our photo quality got quite a bit bigger. I think it was around a quarter in the last time I checked. Since this is on, so there is zero enforcement. Yes, we could enforce it and yes, we could kind of hinder agents from uploading these images. But it's getting better slowly by just educating people positively. We also have a quality store score that helps with that as well. So it is kind of compromised of how many photos you have uploaded, what is the quality of the photo, et cetera. Another example of one of our recent products is around affordability. So in Malaysia, more than 60%, I think this is also where it comes back to kind of those banking APIs that we heard about earlier. More than 60% of all mortgage applications currently are rejected. So this is due to reasons that a lot of people are not even aware, right? So what you can do is basically, you can do a credit check. And if you do a credit check today, you will basically need to go fill out long lengthy forms and pay like, I don't know, I think it's the equivalent of 20 bucks to give it to the credit agency that will check and then you will get a number which is called the deaf service ratio that will come back and will tell you if you are illiterable to even get a credit or not. And there are lots of factors in there. If you have paid your credit card bills, if you have ever had a credit before, things like that, what's your monthly income, et cetera. So one of the products we built together with a partner was kind of based on, okay, how do we automate that process? How do we make it super easyable to access for people and how do we make it free? And actually we did all of that. So it kind of ended up in like a super short four-step approach where you basically put in your name, your NRAC number, your income, but not details, right? It's just really basically five or six fields. We do run a credit check with the credit check agency and back you get. So we basically say, okay, this is your deaf service ratio. You are in the green or you're in the red. That actually means you can afford a mortgage for a decent amount, right? And then once we have that, we can also show you the relevant properties. It's free and it's accessible to everyone. Together with that, we also kind of run a campaign to basically help people with more information, with case studies, with other kind of tools and calculators to help them kind of get more information or basically own their affordability and hopefully in the future be able to buy and afford a home. Okay, one of our, sorry. One of the projects that we are currently working on, and this is very much an in-progress thing, is we are reimagining our search. And I see my team here laughing at me. So we, thanks. We recently set out to say, okay, our search engine or our search backend and probably our tech guys will kill me if I say that, but at the moment it's really old. We have a 10-year-old tech stack that we're currently slowly updating and it doesn't support experimentation. It doesn't support new features, et cetera. So we said, okay, let's redo our search and also let's take that time and kind of reimagine how we can do search. This is a little bit about the process and what we did. So we went through a phase of doing quite a bit of research on search to basically build out personas, find out what are their core issues with searching. And the journey here is actually really, really interesting because it kind of starts from being, I don't even know where to start. It's all really, really overwhelming. What do I do with my current house? What do I do with resale, et cetera? So this is just one of the journeys that we did with our kind of stakeholders until the actual searching, right? How can you make it easier for me to find my property? At the moment we have zero relevance. If you go on our site, you have zero personalization and we want to change all that. So how did we do that? After we did basically... After we did our user personas, we did lots of workshops with our stakeholders to kind of come up with some ideas and opportunities and what to do. We went into user testing and so this is where we currently are. This is really work in progress. We have a few rounds that we did. We're kind of refining prototypes. On top of that, what I'm not showing here, so those are the kind of closer to happening very soon prototypes. We are also exploring other options of searching. There is a theme that is round voice search because everybody is kind of having a Google Home or an Alexa, not everybody, but soon. We hope everybody will. And then why don't you just search on our portal with that? Or another idea that we had and that actually came out of one of our internal hackathons was VR search. So if you're new to Singapore, for example, have you ever wondered what's that condo over there? Can I live there? What does it cost, et cetera? Are there any free units? So basically we have come up with a product that will allow you to do that very soon. All right. So the other side of the metal is agents, property agents. How do we make their lives better? And also those are wire frames and I'm actually not showing nice and finished products here. But what we have figured out is that agents, especially when they get started, also through research, they often don't know where to start. They don't know which kind of units to source. They don't know where to go, what is currently hot. So we created a piece of insight for them which is called Market Supply Gap. It will basically give them a way to see, okay, here is high supply, but low demand. Probably let's not go the other way around. We will tell them where is a good place to source? How does it help us? It helps us in a way that we can steer the kind of supply because when we say, okay, you know what? We have so much demand. People really, really want to find apartments in Novina, but we don't have enough listings there and people don't come back. We can get our agents to go there and do that, for example. Another part of insight is very basic things, right? So what we want to show is how their listings are performing. How do they compare with others? There's very few tools in the market that currently do that. So, yeah, that was some of the examples. The slide that they made me do, basically... We're the tech leader across five markets. We have 55% market share in Southeast Asia. We just recently bought a company that's more than double the size than we actually were in Vietnam and we also just recently got 200 million from KKR. So it's a great place to work for and we are hiring. All right. Thank you. All right, okay, we can do questions if you guys have any. Don't ask me about a tech stack, please. Any questions? Any questions from the floor first while we're starting up the slide? Yes. First is price. So it doesn't allow for variability. Like, if you put in, I want something that's about $2,000, it keeps a hard cap whereas there could be a really good property available for 2050, right? But it wouldn't show me that. Then there is the idea of area, right? Area is very fixed. Now, I could not have selected one whole area but I could have something that's just crossed the boundary that would be interesting to me. So there are, like, the filters are really hard filters right now and it makes for, like, it excludes a lot of options at times. Yeah, it does. So this is one of the reasons why we are revisiting our search because we know it's not fit, right? We know there are lots of other products that people currently use, right? One is the last time you searched on Netflix, for example. So what we want is we want to have a more relevant experience and we want to serve you with the right insights as well. So for example, as you said, like a good agent does, right? You start searching in one area because somebody told you this is good but actually a good agent will tell you, hey, have you considered that area over there because it kind of meets your requirements too, for example, right? Or have you considered spending a little bit more because you will get, that's what they do anyway, but you will get so much more value for that. So yes, this is what we're currently working towards. Maybe we can get a question from Zidoo. What do you think about the rise of new platforms that offer homeowners the option to list their property? So by passing property agents. That's a tricky question. I think, no, I think it's great. And I feel that, you know, in other markets like the US or in Europe, this is also very often how it works. It's listed by owners. Also one of our markets, for example, Thailand, we have that option to do that because there is way more listings by owners. What is here is just the way the market is. And as I said, agents are our customers. We want them to help succeed. So there are several reasons why we say, no, we don't do that at the moment. But I think there is definitely a need in the market for it. So yes, great initiative. How do you reconcile trust with this statement? Recent protests by agents price hike for packages. Yes, it happens. So let me talk about that. So what happened when we had a price hike, what we actually did, we doubled our price in Singapore and for agents. And you know what? We had actually not a lot of agents that we lost because they came all back to us. The reason is, okay, we own 80% of the market, but also we deliver really, really good value, right? So they get most of their leads through us. There is no other place for them to go. So that's what I think. How we get agents insights. No, we don't hire a market researcher. We have our own researcher and currently an open role for that one as well. So we do all our research, all our design in-house. Anything else? Image recognition, giving the agents... Yes. We could, we could, we could do that. But I think agents, they manage up to 100 listings, right? So basically if you... We give them the possibility to enter information to describe their images, to describe their listings, right? But what we find is that a lot of agents don't do it and sometimes often copy it over. So it's kind of, for us, it's a really, really big theme is how do we determine quality and how do we measure the quality of our listings by agents to make sure we kind of, kind of get it up, right? Also honestly, there are quite a few listings that are not genuine on our side and all those things are considerations that we kind of take to see how can we make that better through design, through kind of guiding agents better to have good quality, to have good quality photos, to have good quality descriptions and not to kind of create clickbait postings, basically. All right. How do we measure the success rate of our design? What we don't do at the moment but what we are planning to do is basically implementing an integrated measurement system. So at the moment we measure product success as I guess a lot of companies do. But as we are striving to design for trust we basically are implementing a system where we say, okay, no, we don't only measure product but we also measure product quality but we also measure product experience and we also measure things like brand perception and we kind of pulling that together to measure how good our products are. Yeah, exactly how do we measure trust? That's a really hard one. So it is about product quality on the lowest level but then it's about the experience that you have with the product plus the kind of brand perception and brand experience. This is what we are thinking to measure because those are the things that we measure in terms of trust. Do you have any more questions from the floor? The agent or is it a... What is your main priority building the trust? Is it to the agent or is it the customer who is behind the houses? The more the priority is consumers, the customers who find the trust. Because with the agents we have, basically you give us money, you get something in return relationship so it's kind of not that hard to build trust, right? So if I say, okay, you bear X number of money, I give you X number of leads to make sure you basically kind of convert them into people buying their houses. So yes, it's on the consumer side, which is a lot harder. I think it's very harder because a lot of people using the property guru, they actually experience through the agent as well, right? So when they have a bad experience with the agent, it also might affect the property guru too, you know? I don't know. It might, that always happens. If you have a bad experience with Apple, it might also reflect bad on SingTel. So it's some of the journey. Any more questions? I think we have time for one to two. In that particular area, so you can check out the map, the size of the pool and everything. Now it seems like we're just like a step away, like I could just probably use Google to do the search. So how do you keep up with the competition? Like one day probably Google would take over the property view of Singapore. How do you keep up with the competition? This is true, but it is a business about volume, right? So I think as competition you're right, it is Google, it is Facebook, it is rather those guys that have marketplaces, but none of them has the knowledge that we have for over 10 years, and none of them have the sheer amount of agents that list with them. So it would be really, really hard for any business to come up with basically to get all those listings legally. My question is when you're designing for the agents and for the customers, so I'm pretty sure there is some system for agents that they have to access in order to keep a pool of customers. So sometimes this emerge happens between the agents and the consumers when the personas, when it comes in play right now. So how do you manage this integration between these two things and what are the challenges you face? All the time. So I think our job is a lot about trade-offs between consumers, consumer experience, and agent or even developer, property developer experience who advertise on our platform, because on the one side you have the paying customers that kind of pay your paycheck, on the other side you have the consumers that you kind of need to come. So it's basically every discussion we have, we have to make those trade-offs, right? And there are a few rules and guidelines around that where we basically say one of our principles is consumer first because very similar to learning from Google is also Google says, put the customer first, all the rest will follow. So we are following a very similar principle. Sometimes we also just put our agent and our consumer director in the room and let them fight it out. All right, thank you, Catherine, for sharing your insights and for generously answering questions.