 Ladies and gentlemen, amidst your virtual applause, let's welcome Dr. Anurag Bhattra, Chairman and Editor-in-Chief BW Business for an exchange for me. And on this panel, where we'll talk about the role of the CEO in building brands, we have with us Mr. Rajesh Ramakrishnan, Managing Director, Perfetti Vanu, India Private Limited, Mr. Sarveer Singh, CEO, PolicyBazaar.com and Mr. Kishal Agarwal, Co-Founder, Zozo Day. A very warm welcome to all of you and over to you, Dr. Bhattra. Thank you so much, Khyati. Good to see you, Rajesh, virtually. Have you ever met in a while? Well, it's good to meet virtually. I'm short here. Now things are getting better. We'll meet Kushal. Welcome to this conversation. And my old friends, Sarveer, again, good to see you. Virtually, we are meeting each other virtually. First of all, Rajesh, are people chewing on gum more than they were or they're chewing less? Well, I think they're chewing pretty much what they were doing before, but they seem to be eating more lollipops and candies for sure. Good. You know, I think sweets and candy has its own place. And once in a while, all the child in us comes out in... Absolutely. Yes. So now, again, this panel is a panel of leaders, whether they're called CEOs or founders. Let me start by asking each one of you, let me start with Rajesh, go to Sarveer and then come to Kushal. Is, you know, though your businesses and your brands that bring in money are different than who you are, because in certain service businesses, let's take a news business without taking the name of a founder of a news channel. You know, if that news channel's founder is abroad, then a controversy will naturally... And Sarveer, in his last life, used to work for a leading media group and was the head of investments. So clearly, the personality and the business are intertwined. The brand and the business are intertwined. Whereas Rajesh, in a business where you have so many brands, but how does the CEO's leadership build a brand? And these days, brand, we're talking of three dimensions. We're talking of employee branding. We're talking of customers-centric brand interactions. And third, if you are a listed entity, we're also talking of stakeholders who are investors, you know, the brand amongst them. So give us a sense of how can a leader help in building the brand from these three dimensions? Internally, customers, and if it's a listed entity, stakeholders. Even if it's not a listed entity, you have your third party, partners, distributors, vendors, so on and so forth. Sure. And thanks, Sarveer Ragh. And as always, a pleasure to be here on this panel. You know, you're absolutely right. You know, today the CEO wears multiple hats, right? And if I were to look at it from a brand-building perspective, I would call out two or three different hats. So the one, first I would say is a CEO is also a chief growth officer, right? In the sense of being able to identify looking around what's happening in the environment, et cetera, what are some of the trends that are happening around us? And therefore, how can the company leverage those trends to form the building blocks for future growth? Because without growth, the company does not exist, right? So one of the most important things the CEO does is wear the hat of a chief growth officer or a chief strategy officer, which in a way shapes the vision and the strategy for the organization, right? So that's one. At another level, if you look at it, the CEO is also the chief sustainability officer, right? Because today what's happening is there is a lot more focus on brand purpose. What does the brand stand for? What would the organization like to stand for? How does the organization view environment? How does the organization view communities? So in terms of shaping the thought around how do you build a sustainability-focused organization which while doing business is also doing good for others. So whether it is to do with reducing plastic, to do with reducing carbon footprint or water consumption or any of those. So I think the other role that the CEO plays is the chief sustainability officer. And the third role I could say is to also act as a chief enabling officer. Again, to the point that you made, a CEO has to manage external stakeholders and internal stakeholders. So once the strategy is clear, how does the CEO remove bottlenecks? How does the CEO galvanize the team to work towards certain agreed priorities? So in that sense, the CEO is literally the chief enabling officer also, right? And last but not the least, I would also say the CEO is also the CEO, chief culture officer. In terms of what kind of a culture do you want to build which facilitates all the three things that I spoke about. So in a way, if you really look at it, I think the CEO wears multiple hats in today's context. The key thing is to have a consistent vision for the brands and for the company and to build that in a consistent manner, in a sustained manner over a period of time. Okay, Savvay, you heard Rajesh talk about each of the stakeholders and you gave nice acronyms, and I would add, in the last 10 months, you had to be the chief energy officer which means you gave energy to everybody else. You had to be the chief empathetic officer. You know, you gave empathy. I'd like to understand what is your take? You work with promoters, you're working with two founders right now. You lead a business. So how does the founders, your impact the business? So first of course, good to see you again Anurag and Rajesh and hi, hi, hi Kushal. I think the question and I'll try to stay clear of the controversial side of the question that perhaps you were asking. But I think the, I also feel like one of the roles, whether you're founder CEO or you're CEO after the founder or with the founder, I mean, there are many configurations that are possible. I think one of the roles also that is very important is to, at least what I have learned and discovered is to be the chief repeatability officer. In the sense that what I mean by that Rajesh made a lot of... I would call it focus, reiterating your focus, reiterating your focus. Yeah, so I think what really happens is that A, obviously Rajesh I think put it in a very good framework that first you have to be very clear on what you want to do, right? What are the areas of focus? Because see a company can only do a few things, right? I believe that nobody can do more than two, three things. And so those two, three things have to be cascaded down at the right time in terms of priorities and things like that. So I think it's one is clear on what those two, three things are. Then, who are those people who should be doing those two, three things? Whether you have the right people in place. And then of course, a key part I feel is that especially in organizations like ours, where we are only 12 years old. So relative to Perfetti and I'm sorry Krishnan, I don't know how long you have been around, but they're at a different point in our journey as a company. So I think it is also important to look out, right? In terms of saying, okay, yes, we will do some things this month and this week. And a lot of team members are obviously energized by that. But what are we going to do next year, right? Where is this industry going? What is our place in the industry? See, because we are not yet reached a point where we can be 100% even sure what is our place in the industry. So today, just taking our example, we are a distributor of insurance product. But honestly, we are much more than a distributor. And obviously we aspire to be in a different position. So you're also changing your area. And that requires, like I said, clarity on priorities and make sure that you're putting the people in place so that you can actually do those things. Because the problem is that for the first, let's say even for a year, nothing may show up in terms of results. So I think you have to back those people. You have to have the confidence in what you're saying, in what you're doing. And of course, you have to course correct. So I think the key thing is to, and I'm sure it's different in different organizations at different times. But the main thing is to be, I feel just to be very clear in what are you trying to drive, whether you have the right people with you and how to make sure that they are in the right position. And then to look out a little bit. I think that that's a very critical thing because I feel like in the second decade of our life, we are still very young. And I think making sure that the right habits are put in place, the right cultures. And as you know, culture is a much abused word, right? And again, for organizations which have been around for a long time, it's a little different because they have already, hopefully imbibed certain cultures and they're already there. But in organizations like ours, it's very important to walk the talk and to make sure that, because you're faced with trade-offs on a daily basis, the high performing star employee who misbehaves. Now, it's very tempting to say that we should stay with it because you know that he or she is going to produce next week and next month. But you also know that if you allow that to happen, and then you cannot, or at least then you can't ask for a culture where you say that, you know, everybody should be very logical and we will not tolerate jerks or whatever it is. So I always find it very humorous because I hear all these stories where people say we will not tolerate jerks and all that. And then, you know, you find that a lot of those around. So I think that, so we are in that stage where it's really important to walk the talk. See, as opposed to when you're very young as an organization where there, I feel survival is the main thing, right? You can't afford to have all these morals and all. You just want to survive. But I think now we are at a point where all of these things are important. Also the culture matters. You know, Rajesh talked about the culture. You talked about what you tolerate. You talked about prioritization, the re-creation of what the focus is. You talk about what are the, you know, new things that may be exciting to the core team. They need to be brought into discussion and the buy-in. So, you know, I agree with you. There is a price of tolerating, you know, behavior which does not exactly align to your culture in the short-term by tolerating if you may achieve some objective, but in the long-term it doesn't work. So if you have toxic colleagues, if you have toxic behavior from some people, I have learned that, you know, you want to cut it then because otherwise, you know, it is like a rot that kind of gets in completely. You know, Kushal, you're the youngest on the panel. You went to a business school from 2011 to 13. So you work for the last seven years. You're a travel enthusiast, right? Yeah. And then you co-founded XOXO Day. You know, now tell us, in a young organization like yours, you have the opportunity to shape culture. The culture also then shapes up your brand. So give us your perspective as the founder of a business. Yeah. So thanks, Anurag, for bringing me in this panel and sharing my thoughts. So just to share about Zosuri, we are a software company, software product company, basically. We help companies to digitize their sales incentive programs for their sales team or their channel partners. We are a typical SaaS software company altogether and we have a history of eight years, younger than policy reserve for sure. So thanks, Rajesh and thanks for sharing your insight. So if you, if I see Zosuri, I saw that we started this company in a typical garage way where we took a, took a room from one of our friends and then we started over there. We just had one table and there were, you know, a bunch of enthusiasts working in that, in that table. And everyone were doing everything. So there was no defined roles at that point. So that was an actual start. Then we saw that there was a phase where, you know, we started bringing in new people and these people started asking for JDs. So we never knew that what exactly are JDs, that is job description. So we started learning about the job description. People are started asking for designations. I mean, I didn't have the same problem. Anybody who asked me what JD was, I give them Jack Daniels but that's another story. Yeah. So that was the second phase where we started understanding the market needs and people started asking for these designations, et cetera. Then there was a third phase when we started hiring people from better colleges, from better companies and better background where people started talking about processes that, okay, this is the process which you should follow and, you know, they started talking more and more about improvising things. Then there was a fourth phase where we saw that there was a lot of negativity in the company. And this typically happens in all the startups where when you hire people from multiple backgrounds from multiple places and you don't have an experience of managing them, they start complaining about certain things. They start complaining about the process or certain systems, et cetera. And that is where we went through last year. Last year, I would say. And here what we did was we made these, I would say, backbenchers as class captains and we made them as culture guardians and we asked them to create a panel and start working on the issues which the employee has and have and then they started working on it. And that pretty worked well for us all together and now we are kind of, you know, moving towards becoming a highly tech and highly efficient, you know, organization will be touching closer to 300 CR this year. And yes, all our team members are geared up all the way. So there's a, I would say that there's a journey and US founders and I would say with less experience we have to rightly sort of be mentioned we have to walk the talk. And yes, we have to innovate ourselves at all times and we have to be progressive in our thoughts. Like if you see COVID has bought a lot of unpredictability in the business, I mean, at this one time I can't forecast it very clearly that, okay, what will be my, you know, next quarter's revenue or next year's revenue with great perfection. But now with that thought, we also have the other side of the story that, okay, there are companies who have started accepting digital transformation, they've started becoming more progressive, they like integrations, they want to start immediately, et cetera. So yeah, so I feel that it's a journey and we have to learn from the journey and take, learn from the situations which we have and then, you know, move ahead. You know, the beauty about this panel is very diverse. It pretty much represents what we have out there, which is an established company, which is an MNC like Parfetti Van Mele. Before Rajesh came into it, he worked with Van Mele FMCG brands in senior leadership capability capacity before he came as the MD and CEO at Parfetti Van Mele. Excuse me. And I'm, you know, I must say that he's lucky to have an Indian as the CEO. Your global CEO is also an Indian, right Rajesh? That's right. That helps. And then you have Savit who's working in a homegrown, you know, you know, Proficon. I don't call it a unicorn. Now it's hopefully at some stage wouldn't be a profitable unicorn. And again, there are challenges in the, you know, capital raising ecosystem. There's challenges in the business environment. But throughout those challenges, how to build, how to scale up as we said, how to be focused on what is needed is the key. And you Kushal brought in as a young startup founder who's built a sizable company, which has an impact on the business world. So to say, you brought in, you hit the nail on it set by saying that when you're a young company, as you all there are different cultures that kind of come together and that shape your company's brand and the CEO's style of functioning does shape it, you know. So, and you really talked about the fact that when it's growing very fast and there are different people coming from different backgrounds, different cultures, sometimes there can be conflicts and there can be gray areas that may lead to dissonance. But the beauty of startups is also is that there is a sense of ownership that exists in startups that possibly doesn't exist in bigger companies, possibly. But now let me go on to the second leg. Let me ask you Rajesh, let me start with you again, which are some of the companies, give us an example where the culture was shaped by the CEO and it was a positive example and give us an example of company where the culture was shaped by the CEO but it didn't work out as well eventually. Or, you know, as, you know, in some way, the CEO and the company being entered to find if it's a service business that can be collateral damage. So give us some examples that readily come to your mind. Yeah, I think, you know, to that point, I'm not sure whether, you know, from a culture point of view, whether there is a very strong good or bad, right? It's all end of the day contextual and it needs to be viewed in the context of the industry, what stage the industry is in, what kind of an ambition that the company has and so on and so forth. So, you know, first of all, I wouldn't like to pass any judgment saying, you know, whether it is good or bad in terms of culture. I think that's the first point. Second is, yes, while the CEO can, you know, help drive it from the top and a lot of things get driven from the top, unless it very clearly trickles down and cascades down in the organization, it can't become part of the culture because there is only so much that one person can do and there needs to be a strong ownership of that culture amongst, you know, definitely the management team and the people below so that everybody is able to consistently demonstrate that culture in all walks of life so that then that becomes part of the organization's DNA, right? So I think a few of those points to keep in mind. And I mean, if I look around and see at a few companies, I mean, you can talk about Elon Musk and Tesla, right? As an example, or you look at, say someone like Steve Jobs. So, you know, what happens is, there is a personality of the, you know, CEO, which very often plays a pretty determining role in the way the culture starts to shape up. I mean, you know, if there is a CEO who's so focused on work is very, very, you know, ruthless and passionate about driving things, then that sort of starts trickling down in the organization and taking shape in terms of how the culture needs to be, you know, fixed. But for example, I was reading a book recently where they talk about the aluminum company of America, right? And the CEO, when they were going through a tough time and there was a new CEO who was appointed and the only thing he talked about for the first six months was how safety was important for the company. And people actually got scared because they thought they had put somebody completely incompetent in charge of the company and they started selling the shares of the company. In six months, the company became the fastest growing and the most profitable company in the US and it stayed like that for a long time because they realized that because there was a paramount focus on safety, it resulted in productivity improvement. It resulted in many other cascading effects on the entire supply chain that that started resulting in some fantastic results for the company. So I think the point is, yes, the personality of the CEO can drive the business or the culture to a certain extent, but it needs to come together as a collective or to really have some impact on the full culture of the organization over a period of time. If you talk to any CEO or a founder, Elon Musk names come, but Elon Musk has also seen as a maverick who may do things more in a spontaneous way and being nice. Yeah, but yeah, you know, I use the word spontaneous, you can use a term you like to use, but you gave a great example and now let me go to Kushal and ask him, Kushal, give us a sense of companies or founders or leaders you look up to for the kind of impact they've had on their companies and their colleagues. Yeah, so there are a couple of them whom I closely follow and I admire. One is Mr. Sridhar Venbuk, who recently received the Palmasri Award, who is the founder of Zoho Corp. A very brilliant guy. I had a chance to meet him as well once or twice. And so he rightly talks about what Rajesh earlier talked about, you know, culture, growth, enabling and sustainability. And, you know, keeping that in mind, you know, he has trained India to how to sell SaaS products. Previously, if you see in India, only companies like Infosys or Wipro or, you know, Accenture or other companies who are in services segment had flourished. But he has shown a direction, he has shown a path that an Indian grown, you know, a software product can also sell globally and also locally. And he has kind of built the entire organization in such a sustainable way that he himself has established as a whole university where we train the people towards what the SaaS products are and how people can actually sell SaaS products and also explain more integrities about the overall process. So, yes, so Mr. Sridhar Vembo is one person whom I look up to. Second person I feel is a great leader whom I follow is Mr. Jeff Bezos. I mean, I haven't met him or I haven't interacted with him any time, but, you know, I've interacted with the employees of Amazon. And, you know, there's a completely different type of cheer in their kind of, in their face. Recently, I met one of the representative, one of the person who was one of the employee of Amazon who manages, you know, Amazon's seller services. And they were working on integration of Amazon and Shopper Stop. I mean, they had to sell goods from Shopper Stop to Amazon. And he was so excited. And I've seen for the first time that an employee is speaking so positive about his target, so positive about his vision, so positive about, you know, challenges which Amazon has put forward in front of him. So he was just asked to kind of get some X number and he has been given all freedom to kind of do it. So I think building that culture where your people become a part of your mission is something which is very, very important for an organization and for a CEO. And, you know, I keep taking notes from that, from the friend of mine. And I try to implement the same kind of notes, some different kind of, you know, things in my organization. So yeah, so I think building a culture, you know, as rightly mentioned by Rajesh, has to come from top to bottom. And, you know, if you're able to make your team a part of your mission and if your team believes that they are building something amazing, you know, you have won the list. So yeah, so that's input from my side. Can say, Kusherl, is that my, I follow Jeff Bezos at least in my head, you know, I'm trying to look like him. So clearly, you know, on a serious note, yesterday Jeff Bezos resigned as the CEO. He's taken the company to a scale where, I mean, he believes that while he's continued to give the vision, there are other capable leaders in the leadership team who can take forward. So, you know, again, he's been both the people you talk about have had the impact beyond their own company. They've inspired us. And, you know, again, they've been visionaries in their own way. Saravir, now your point of view. You know, I think both Rajesh and Kusherl have obviously covered, you know, names that are, you know, unquestionably great. So I don't think there's much to add in that dimension. I would just like to the way, I like to think about this whole thing if you take away the personalities, is that, you know, of our generation and where we are currently, you know, customer centricity has become the key issue. And I believe that, you know, there was a period of time and FMCG is of course, great example of that. You know, where there was this whole thing that you had, where you had this mass advertising, you know, mass distribution. And basically what you did was that you got people to, you know, know about the product. And then, you know, they went and selected it on the shelf or whatever the, you know, story was. But I think the paradigm has changed. I think now given social media, given the fact that everything can be, can move very quickly, you know, from one person to another. The whole thing is now driven by people and people's experiences with a brand service. So whether it's Apple, Amazon, at some level, if you realize that they are, you know, all these companies, I would say, are extremely customer centric. And what happens then is that once you decide to move from that perspective, then, you know, everything that you do is driven by that and your consumers, your other people who use your products and services are your ambassadors. They are the ones who actually do the marketing for you. They are the ones, you know, who create, you know, your company and who decide the success. I mean, you know, for instance, like WhatsApp is an amazing service, right? I mean, sometimes I think we forget what an amazing achievement it is, right? You know, whatever, 55 people created a service which practically half the world, you know, runs on today. And then, you know, it was zero marketing, zero traditional, you know, no television, nothing like that. So I think the point that, and I think we're moving in an era where this is going to become bigger and bigger part. And I think the main thing now is to kind of learn from, you know, these people who have been able to master these points about customer centricity. And it's an easy thing to, again, talk about, but it's really hard to execute, really hard to make those investments, you know, before they start to pay off and really invest in all of that because it is a comforting thing to do, right? Even at Policy Bazaar, for us, it's a comforting thing to spend X-Carrows on television and Y-Carrows on Google. Because, you know, as they say, nobody's going to fire you for doing that because that's what is expected. And of course that works too. So, you know, it's not to sort of knock that. But I think as we go forward, we also have to remember that the future is not on this side. The future is on creating, you know, customer experiences and, you know, even in a field like insurance, which, you know, is very hard to kind of create too much customer joy out of, but you have to create customer joy so that people will talk to each other, people will tell each other. So for me, I think the, and I think having grown up at a time when, you know, manufacturing, FMCG, et cetera, were the heroes, right? We looked up to these companies and said, like, this is what a well-run company is like. I think now we are slowly transitioning, you know, to people like Apple or Amazon or Google or Facebook or whichever, you know, ones that we want to pick. And I think one of the key differentiators between that set and this set, to a large extent is their focus on customer centricity and being able to, you know, to tap into the power of customer networks and the fact that people, you know, talk to each other or message each other or whatever, whichever form you want to pick. So I think that is the defining, to me is the defining lesson at this point. And that's what, you know, I'm trying to emulate, trying to learn from various people as to how they do this and what can we bring to the table and, you know, adapt it to our insurance context and make sure, you know, that people are happy about it. It's also, you know, it also teaches you one more thing is to how to look at adjacencies, right? What was traditionally, you know, to say that, okay, we are in the business of insurance, but, you know, are we in that business? Are we in the business of making people feel secure? Are we in the business of making people feel comforted? So then should we do other things that will make them feel secure and comforted? Now, you know, there are challenges in that. There is regulation. I mean, there are many sort of reasons not to do them, right, to be honest. But I think we have to think very broadly. We have to think, you know, we are also lucky, I would say, especially if we are living in a time where capital is abundant, right? I mean, there is so much capital that is available. You know, companies like ours are very lucky. We, you know, it's a question of our ability to imagine our ability to dream versus our ability to, you know, for scarcity of capital being a challenge. And as you know, Anurag, this was not true even 10 years ago in India, right? So things have changed dramatically. I mean, God knows whether they will stay this way or not, but today we are in that period. So I think the opportunity is to focus on this, you know, consumer, you know, joy, delight and drive that such that, you know, you can create these networks which work in your favor. So yeah, so I think that's kind of how I look at this question that you asked. You surveyed in your responsibility. Now you lead a business, but you've nurtured other entrepreneurs, other businesses. So clearly your experience is both in terms of leading a company and helping other leaders build their companies has come into play. I want to ask you, Rajesh, if you had to say, you know, some rules of leadership were true before COVID. Post COVID, some more nuances or contextual rules have been added. Tell me post COVID, what are the rules for leadership, especially in the context of brand building? Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely valid because there are indeed some things that have stayed true, whether COVID or otherwise. I think in terms of leadership, you know, being empathetic, you know, Sarabhir also talked about it, being inspirational for the organization, you know, also being a force of energy. I think those things have remained constant. And if not further got accentuated as a result of the pandemic. But I think a few things that come in post COVID, I would say, one is, you know, we earlier used to talk about situational adaptability. I would, you know, go one step further to say, today one of the key facets of leadership is situational agility, right? It is being very mindful of what is going around and being at a very fast pace to quickly adapt to it. So I would, you know, introduce the concept of situational agility. That's becoming very, very important, right? The other piece I would say, which is important for CEOs is our ability to unlearn and relearn, you know, the world is changing and let's face it, I mean, we are all, you know, I think except for Khushal, I think all of us have been around for a long time now. And you know, in a way we are living fossils, but I would like to see myself as saying that, am I able to constantly unlearn what I've learned and relearn for the new reality? So I think that's another very important facet for leaders as well. So I think these are two areas where, you know, I would say we need to really, as leaders, see how we could, you know, take some of this forward. And last but not the least is a part of, both of these would be our ability to then appetite to leverage technology, to act as an enabler in doing many of the things that we never thought was possible to do with technology. I mean, launch conferences, award functions. I mean, who would have thought all of this would have been possible, right? So I think our ability to just absorb leverage technology to sort of act as enablers for the growth trajectory for the organization. So yeah, these would be a few things from my perspective. Kushal, your pick on what are the rules to build? You know, you know, for many years, Kushal has been my favorite team at conferences, especially if I've gone to an entrepreneurship conference, that why have we not produced a single product company out of India? You know, product company in the way I define a product. But finally, it looks like we started to produce product companies. Look at your company. You talked about Shridhar Vimbo's company and I can talk about other 10, 12 companies that I'm very closely keeping a watch on. But finally, it looks like we started to build companies which are product companies. We started to take risks which are bigger than just being a service business. We started to use innovation to in some way make an impact beyond cost arbitrage, right? So give us a sense of what are the rules for building this new age company in an ultra competitive environment? And Rajesh rightly said, situational agility. He talked of the CEO being mindful. If you're mindful and you are watching both the macro and microtrends, you can be situationally agile because really the last 10, 11 months got us to take the sales faster, quicker, with less visibility of the future. We didn't have visibility. Sometimes beyond a week, two weeks, both on the supply side and the demand side. So give us a sense that now that you're building a company which is already sizable, you kind of got here. And let me ask this in a classic way. They say, what got you here won't get you there. So tell us what got you here will still work and what are the new things you need to add? So Anurag, I'll talk from the perspective of Zoday or a software company basically or a software startup, I would say. Meanwhile, we talk about we are a software company. We have to digitally transform internally as well. So I've seen my friends, I've seen various companies and my fellow entrepreneurs who have built a tech startup but while they talk about digital transformation outside as for the clients, they're registered to become, they're registered to transform internally as well. So that was one thing which I saw a change in me, I would say. We transformed our technology, our kind of, the way we sold the approach to the marketing, et cetera. And we transformed internally, digitally. And then we started thinking that, okay, first digital inside and then digital outside. That was first thing we did. Second, with this pandemic, it has taught us to become more progressive. And progressive, not very slow progressing, but you have to do rapid progression. And we did it via instant integration. So if you see our software, it's a sales incentive automation software and typically it has to connect with multiple data source to kind of prepare a dashboard for accommodating the rule engines. Previously, we were doing all manual integrations with the systems. Now, with pandemic companies started asking for more services and they started asking for integrating faster. So what we did was we built various instant integrations and APIs in different market places and we hosted. So now any company who wants to deploy our tool, they can go live within a day's time. Second piece and other piece we did was the CRM automation where we did automation of the follow-ups. We did automation of the feedback collection. We automated about understanding the consumer or the client's voices. We did a lot of automations there too. So if you see as a whole via the software company, we transformed ourselves internally to stay ahead in the market, to stay in the market I would say. And yes, that's how we are sustaining as the first two quarters of the pandemic were very, very bad for us. But next two quarters has been extraordinarily good. So yeah, so we have to go very, very aggressive in digital transformation internally as well as externally to kind of stay in the market and ahead of the market. Yeah, that would be my take on. Thank you so much for being so real. And you know, let me now do a rapid fire. We have five more minutes to go. Let me start with sir, we sing right now. So if you had to make three predictions for the future, if prediction is a very large word, let's say trends that you see becoming bigger, which we are not able to see in a big way right now, but over the next one to two years, they will become mainstream. I have the same question to Kushal and Rajesh. Sir, we're first to you. I think the, I mean, it's hard to say what is mainstream or not. But I think one of the things that will break out, I think in India is the fact that as we go beyond the English speaking elite and you know, the others start to use services and digital services and propositions, a very different kind of user interfaces, et cetera, will come up and voice is going to be one of the big areas that I think is underdeveloped and I think will play a very big role. I think it's somewhat appreciated in certain areas and it's not appreciated in others, but it will be a very big role. And the second thing I think that will, that is going to, which is again, I think at the crux of that movement is the fact that as people have got used to doing things in a very digital and you know, the fact that our payment systems are so efficient and so easy to use, I think this is going to unlock a very, you know, very differentiated type of experience in this country. So I think the distribution of products and services as it has been done in other parts of the world may not be, you know, may not exactly mirror the Indian, you know, may not be mirrored in India and I think that those, maybe I'll stop it too, I think, and let the others take a crack. Kusher, yours? Yeah, so the first point would be the ability to collect feedback continuously and implementing it very fast. So you have to keep doing, keep collecting feedback and keep improving. So that's the only way to grow and to make your product, you know, where you want it to take. You have to take the feedback from the market and you have to quickly implement it and there are enough and good number of automations available for feedback, its analysis and then how you can kind of improve it. That would be my first piece. Second piece is you have to go, you have to start thinking digital internally as well as externally and you know, you have to think on, think of the consumer, customers, how they will see your product as a simple product. So simplicity is something which is very important and third is the collaborativeness between the companies. So you can't do everything in-house. You have to partner with people so that you know you can go after it, you can go fast and you can do a quality piece. I think these are three pieces for my sake. Okay, Kushal, I like the simplicity, but I like the fact that you got to reimagine your complete value chain digitally and while right now the physical and digital may coexist at some stage, digital will be bigger. So clearly I knew you also talked about the ability to get quick feedback from all stakeholders and implement it. It syncs with what Rajesh said in terms of situational agility. They are kind of similar things. Rajesh, you have the final one. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, so just taking off from what Kushal said, I think one thing for me is the role that technology plays in our lives is going to significantly go up and I think it's about how we choose to leverage that as organizations that will make a big difference between the also RANS versus the ones who succeed. I think that's important. Also, I think the consumer perception of value is already undergoing a change and it will continue to undergo a change. See earlier... Explain that, explain that. So earlier it was about, okay, you get a certain value, but now if you look around you, what's happening is many industries have become really difficult to survive. Small businesses have literally shut shop. So you find a lot of economic turbulence going around all around us. And therefore the way I used to earlier perceive value for money, I think is undergoing a significant shift. So today as a consumer, I'm really looking at and saying, is this spend actually required for me? What role is this product or service playing in my life which really makes it necessary for me to have that? Can I postpone something for later which I don't need to invest in today? So I think this whole value piece is getting redefined and the more we are able to understand that, I think the greater the chance of organization succeeding. So that's the other second piece that I see. And the third piece, which has been there a little bit with the youth of today, which I think will only go up, is the sense of purpose, right? I would like to associate myself with brands or people who have a sense of purpose which goes beyond just making profits or making money. So I think as an organization and as brands, if we're able to align ourselves to a larger purpose which is either to do with doing good for the community, doing good for the environment or whatever, I think that again, it gives us a greater right to succeed as leaders and as corporates. So I would say technology, value, redefinition and having a sense of purpose. Thank you so much. I learned something during the conversation. I'd like to wrap up by saying what I believe in. One is rightly as Rajesh said, the profit is important but the three more piece are equally important than the help in building the brand that is purpose, that is people and that is the planet. You talk to sustainability. I also believe from what Kushal and Sir Veer said that we are in a three C economy. We're in a collaborative economy. We're in a compassionate economy and we are in a contactless, which you may want to call digital virtual economy. So clearly the three P's and the three C's become very important to be able to build brands and businesses. And in some businesses that you take away the brand and the premium goes away. So there's nothing really left. It's, you know, we're in the business of building brands and again, whether they're B2B brands like Kushal's business or B2C brands like Rajesh's yours. And you know, I know Sir Veer, there's a B2B part and a B2B to C part and a B2C part. So clearly it's ever changing landscape. We need to be as leaders, we need to be keep our feet to the ground or yet to the ground taking faster decisions, quicker, taking more decisions on a weekly basis. And if I may say, agility sometimes leads to, you know, resilience. I believe agility contributes to resilience. They're kind of intertwined. And I think in today's world, the most important words are agility and resilience. Leaders that can show compassion along with these two attributes will triumph in the marketplace. So thank you Rajesh, Kushal and Sir Veer for joining us in this conversation. In the evening, we have the Indian Marketing Awards. The who's who of the brand and business ecosystem will gather to receive the award. The jury here will be there to make the jury chair address. So we look forward to seeing you at the awards and we wish you luck in your endeavor of building your businesses and the brands that power those businesses. Thank you so much. God bless you. Good evening. Thank you, Cathy. Thank you all the time. Thanks for having me.