 I'm not Fluffy Pony. Sorry. Come on in, everybody, grab a seat. My name is Mike Savi. They flew me all the way in from Philly, and boy, is my block folio tired. Actually, you know what? Before we get started, while you guys are getting a seat, I just got to do one thing. You guys are actually in for a treat. I heard Fluffy Pony's going to make some really exciting announcements about Monero. So hold on. All right, buy 20 Monero. All right, cool. All right, my buy order's good. All right, so I don't really have much to sell, except for some jokes. I hope you guys laugh. That's pretty much it. I don't have any shit coins to show. I'm my own shit coin. Showing myself. Now, we took an Uber on the way over here. I just wanted to point this out. It's kind of messed with my head a little bit. So we're on the way here, and we came to a stop sign. And we stopped. But on the stop sign, it was like, it's not like vandalized, but somebody put something on the stop sign to make the stop sign look like a mess. They made it so that the stop sign said stop rape. Great idea. That just means somebody's walking around in Las Vegas right now with a bunch of stickers. They just say rape on them. Like, I don't, could you imagine getting caught with, like, are you driving down the street? Cop pulls you over. Officer, what did you put? License to registration, hang on. It's right here in the club box. You go to open a whole bunch of like, another gun fell out and like shot the cop. And I have a bunch of like, like rape stickers fall out. So now we've got the rape jokes out of the way and the cop shooting jokes out of the way. Let's get into some crypto stuff. I'm a realtor by trade. So I sell houses to whoever still wants to buy them. I, we don't sell them for Bitcoin just yet. But honestly, I'm looking for a different career. Okay, I've been doing it for about 15 years. And one of the biggest reasons I want, I'm just like, I like people. I just hate when people ask you stupid questions. Should they think that I should know? Like I'm a real estate agent. I can tell you about value. But when somebody says, is there a lot of sex offenders in the neighborhood? I'll just go, yeah, they're everywhere. Like, they'll come knock on your front door. So I never happened to anybody here. I had a guy that came knock on my front door and said, hi, like I looked outside first. He didn't have a clipboard, didn't have a badge. I'm like, okay, this guy might be okay. I go, I open the door, tells me he's Steve the sex offender. I said, okay, by Steve the sex offender. That was all our entire counter. But I looked them up online. You know, you can do this. That's cyber stalk everybody. I'll probably cyber stalk half of you. There's, he lives in a house, but right next door to him lives another sex offender. Like, 1907, look this up on your phones if you don't believe me. Actually, by the way, has anybody had, you guys scared the shit out of me about coming to DEF CON. I don't have my like smart. I bought one of these because I'm scared to death. Oh shit, I did the Manera, fuck, I ruined that one. What up, marijuana is legal in Las Vegas. I just found out two days ago. It does affect the memory. So anyway, these guys, I just kind of imagined, like what was it like when these two sex offenders met? Because when I bought my house and I drove my motorcycle up the driveway for the first time, my neighbor darted over. Cause he has three motorcycles. And we're like the best of friends now. I don't want to say that they're like, these guys share like, anything disgusting. Like not anything gross. I just gotta imagine like, hey, I got a bunch of kids coming over next door. I'm on crayons. Do you think that you could, I like when they color. Another reason I kind of got into crypto, honestly, aside from just the money, because one thing I believe about crypto is that I do believe that Bitcoin is going to eventually destroy the dollar. Cause I personally destroyed thousands of dollars in cryptocurrency. And if I can do it, I know that together we can all do it. But what I did, I was, I got into crypto cause it was kind of depressed. And the community is really what brought me back out of my like funk, right? And for anybody that's felt that way, I know what it feels like to be depressed and introverted, not want to leave your house. And it's hard. It's even a little nerve wracking just to kind of talk about some of the things that I felt like I went through. But I want to share one of the things that really helped me in my depression. So, you know, just personally like, you can look this up online. It's like, I watched a lot of self help videos called jerk off encouragement. Like these girls look right at you and they're just like, stroke that cock. And I'm like, I am. Like I don't want another reason to be sad, you know? So I got into crypto. It was a little bit better. It's true. Oh, okay. I do want to share this one last thing with you. I sold some Bitcoin last night to make some bad decisions. And I've been apologizing to Bitcoin all fucking morning. Like she's my wife. I'm like, honey, I'm sorry. I swear, if you go back up, I will never ever sell you again. She still hasn't talked to me. So I've been texting gold for like, oh, one and two, just like it's a backup. You gotta have a backup, you know? Listen, if all in love, those sort of things happen. All right, we'll bring up our friend of mine. I just want to tell you what am I doing in Las Vegas? I was brought here for a show that was called the Crypto Shit Show. It was just evolved into something called the Crypto Integrity Show. And we got a lot of real, which, whatever you can make of that, which you need to. But I'm here with a really good friend of mine and Ken Bozak, Nathan Hawk from the IoT Village who put this all together. And Nate is like, he doesn't want all this fame but he's gonna at the very least get this credit that he wants to establish this thing where there's like bulldogs and crypto. So that you're afraid to like, like if you have something to show, you're afraid to do it because there's people that are gonna come along and within three seconds, go that's bullshit, get that out of here. And yes, we have a level of professionalism we have to keep, but I'm from Philly, okay? We just won the Super Bowl and then three minutes after we won the Super Bowl, a viral video of a guy went viral of him eating dog shit on the street, okay? So gotta forgive me, I'm a little rough around the edge. That guy wasn't me, by the way. But it was a little rough around the edges. But I think, and I think that's important. Like when I was younger, let me listen to rap. Awesome, Paul, three of you. Okay, well, I'm 40 and I love the Wu-Tang Clan. If you haven't heard of them, look them up, they're a great group of youngsters. But I gotta remember like, if I was an up-and-coming rapper, there was a lot of like scary names and stuff like that. There was a rapper named Ghost Face. Somebody knows this guy, Ghost Face Killer. If you were an up-and-coming rapper, would you like walk up to that guy and be like, hey, would you take my demo, say Mr. Ghost Face Killer? Those are scary and intimidating names, but man things have evolved. You know what the scariest name in the space right now is Fluffy Pony. So with that, I'd like to bring up my new friend, Mr. Fluffy Pony. Come on on, give it up for Fluffy Pony. I don't even want to know his real name. I appreciate you. Hello. That's fine, I got him. All right. Thanks for having me. So I'm here to talk about Mineros Emerging Applications. I don't actually know what that means. So we're just going to make this up as we go along. I'm going to talk about that in five minutes before I came here, so they might not be up to my normal standard of excellence. But for those of you who don't know, I'm Ricardo Sputney. You may know me as Fluffy Pony. You may also know me as that gigantic troll on Twitter. What the hell is that guy and why is he ruining Minero for everyone? I'm not the lead developer of Minero. That's a fallacy, a lie. I'm also not the lead developer. Oh, I said that already. I'm not the creator of Minero either. That's a Russian guy who I'm thankful for today. We don't know who he really was. We think he's Russian. And he created Minero in 2014. We had a little tiff with him off he went into the ether and probably went on to hack the American election. So that's cool. At least he accomplished his life's work. You can find me on Twitter and on Reddit and more recently on Mastodon, which is like decentralized Twitter because we decentralize all the things. And there is my GPG fingerprint, which is very important if you wanna validate the Minero binaries. Or if you're cool, you'll just compile from source. So what I wanna talk about is there seems to be this desire to blockchain all the things. And I think part of it is because Bitcoin was open source and so people realized they could just clone the repo and create the Bitcoin scam coin. And that led to this desire to just make everything a token or shove stuff onto the blockchain. And I've had a bunch of ridiculous ideas over the past like seven years, six, seven years. My favorite one is, I read an article, this was probably like three, four years ago and it was all about how in emergency situations, and this is true, responders struggle to get hold of each other or to get hold of the joint operation center and whatever because the cell phone networks are clogged up and sometimes they don't have access to radios, they've only got their cell phone on them and now the cell phone network's clogged up. And so this article posited that we could use blockchain to fix that. So you can't get on the internet but you're gonna use a blockchain to fix the comms problem. So this is just one of many stupid ideas using blockchain and we're not gonna get away from them, like people are gonna pitch stupid ideas all the time but what I really wanna get out of this talk, I want everybody out of this talk is to think carefully, especially if you're creating applications or if you're not creating applications, if you're trying to break applications, think carefully about what a blockchain is and how it applies because a blockchain is basically just a terribly skatable, really slow, really horrendously clunky database. But it's also for some things, it's awesome if you need tamper resistance, it's awesome if you need trustlessness, it's awesome if you need some sort of like a censorship resistance finality. These are all things that a blockchain can provide but it shouldn't be like the go-to and I think what I really wanted to sort of think about is this idea of tokens and you know, why do we need a token in this application and why do we need a token in that application? And the reality is you probably don't need a token if you're creating an application, although that seems to be the go-to and I think the reason it's the go-to, I think the reason why people try and model applications with the idea of a utility token is because they wanna do an ICO and buy a Lambo and I applaud that, I mean if that's your goal, no problem but just be outright about it, just be like we're doing an ICO so daddy can buy a new Lambo instead of being like we're doing a utility token. So you know, that said, there are some times where tokens are useful but before I get onto that side and there are some times where tokens are not so I wanted to sort of just talk a little bit about some of the applications that have been built without requiring a token. So things like obviously Tor, I mean what's the token that we use to pay Tor routers? There we go. But we don't, there's no token that runs I2P, there's no token that runs FreeNet, there's no token that runs Signal or Wire or any of the comms applications that we've become so accustomed to using. You know, OTR over RSE is incredibly powerful and RSE itself is incredibly powerful as far as decentralized, relatively decentralized federated protocols go and yet there's no token running that. And even in the blockchain world, the probably the first decentralized exchange is BitSquare which is now known as Bisk. And BitSquare like doesn't have a token. I mean it does have a token now but the token is just sort of a way to unlock certain things and they did that because they ran on a donation model for a long time and then decided to do this like internal mechanic to try and fund some stuff and that's cool. But the core functionality of BitSquare or Bisk doesn't require a token at all. So tokens can be largely meaningless and yet there are situations where I can see that a token is useful. And I think an example of this is of course, Counter Party which I value as an extremely underutilized protocol and Namecoin as well. I can buy that, that there's a native token that is required for the functioning of that protocol. But in general, I don't think that most applications need a token. So if you're building on Monero, how do you build on Monero? How do you leverage Monero? So there's several ways of leveraging Monero and I've been thinking about this a lot over the past few years because what's the point of programmable digital money for not programming it? If all we're doing is just sending it around, I mean that's cool, there's nothing wrong with that but I mean we kind of want to take advantage of the fact that this stuff's digital otherwise we can just carry on using cash. And I think that some of the advantages of Monero and maybe the key advantage of Monero is that there's this massive grassroots movement and people are ideologically motivated. So I think about miners as an example. Miners in Monero and this is certainly not across the board, there is a massive cabal of miners who are motivated by profits. They are mining because they want profit. And yet if you look at the stats, if you look at the potential profit from mining Monero, there are many times where Monero's hash rate stays relatively stable or even increases and yet at that point in time it's not profitable to mine Monero. So I have to assume that there are either a bunch of miners who have extremely low electricity costs and have purchased their GPUs for like super cheap and that's certainly possible. But I think the, and of course we've got the botnets and thank you botnet operators who are here for supporting the Monero network. I love your work. I mean I don't but thank you for following the rules of the network. But I think that there definitely is a, there's a large group of miners who are purely ideologically motivated. They're mining Monero because they believe in Monero. They're not mining Monero to sell and cover their electricity costs. We're talking about people who have like three, four, five rigs at home. They're covering their electricity costs out of pocket and they could be selling their hash rate on nice hash. They could be mining, I don't know, Tatatou, whatever coin is super profitable right now. That's also a legit coin I found out the other day. That Coinbase is thinking of adding. Thanks Coinbase. And yet there's this massive ideological core and I think that that's really powerful. And so when you're thinking of building applications on top of Monero, leverage that core. There's all this talk about proof of work being unsustainable and destroying the environments. And my wife's vegan so you're like, I understand about like destroying the environment and all the poor trees and all that, I get it. And so if you're building a new application, consider merge mining as a way of leveraging Monero's proof of work. With merge mining, what you're doing is you're building your own chain but you don't have to go and recruit miners. You don't have to go and find miners and try and motivate them with profit or ideology or whatever. You can just be like, hey, existing Monero miners, would you like some extra tokens for free? Because that's totally a thing you can do. Now with merge mining, you do have a native token because you've got to incentivize pools to add support for your merge mine chain and that's cool. But I think that there is massive benefit to that. Another component of this is of course, if you do end up going down that road, you build a merge mine application, then you have to try and leverage the existing plumbing. So you'll obviously want to do things like, oh, atomic swaps. So atomic swaps can be achieved in two ways using existing plumbing. There's hash time locked contracts, hash time locked contracts, HTLCs, and of course lightning. Now Monero has support from neither of those. So as existing plumbing, I mean existing plumbing in the world, not existing plumbing on Monero yet. But we are working towards adding HTLC support and adding lightning support. There are multiple groups that are focused on that and I think it's something that is achievable within the next sort of 12 to 24 months. And then we'll have the plumbing and the infrastructure for easy and virtually free atomic swaps between Monero and other coins. Now, there is of course an application that is being built called Tari. That is being built on top of Monero and this is something that I'm deeply involved in. I'm one of the founders, along with my co-founders, Dan and Naveen. And I wanted to talk a little bit about Tari as like a case study because again, we thought about many things that we can leverage and we are leveraging, the stuff I've just described, merge mining and we're trying to, at Tari Labs, we're trying to support HTLCs and lightning on Monero as particularly as a mechanism for atomic swaps. And lightning of course is great from a scaling and privacy enhancement perspective. But you might wonder why we rejected other ways of building a top of Monero at Tari. I mean, the Tari design is certainly not set in stone, but we thought about other things. For example, Monero transactions have this little field called TX Extra. And you can basically just shove whatever data you want into TX Extra and it's not at no cost. You're paying a transaction cost per byte. So it's not free to shove data in the blockchain, but you could ostensibly, like you could build a service that uses the Monero blockchain and backs up your entire computer to it. So if you're so inclined, I wouldn't advise doing that because it would be horribly expensive, but it is certainly something you can do. The problem with TX Extra, and this is something we've realized over the past few years, especially the Monero Research Lab guys, is that TX Extra only works really well if it's uniform, otherwise your transaction starts sticking out. And so you're busy shoving data into TX Extra and now everyone can pinpoint your transactions and now they start being able to perform large data analysis and that's not great. So we're working towards, I think, as a development work group and as a group of researchers, we're constantly working towards ways of creating transaction uniformity. And so anything like that would break transaction uniformity. And so we kind of have rejected TX Extra as a way of building on top of Monero and instead gone the sort of merge mining routes. It's something to consider if you are building an application. In terms of Tori and of what we're building, so Tori is a decentralized assets protocol. So in many ways we think of it as like this spiritual, I guess spiritual successor to Counter Party or spiritual sister to Counter Party. Counter Party's built on top of Bitcoin and Tori's built on top of Monero. And the whole idea is that there are natively digital assets that could benefit from a blockchain-like structure. So think about things like in-game assets, in-game tokens, loyalty points, tickets, ICOs, and other things. And of course one of the most exciting things is if you think about in-game assets and in-game tokens. So if you're a World of Warcraft player and you spend a bunch of time building up your character and you just play it and play it and play it and now your character is really built up and it's worth a ton of money and you're bored of World of Warcraft and you wanna go play Fortnite or whatever, it would be great if there was a dex where you could sell some of your World of Warcraft stuff and buy some Fortnite stuff or just move from one game to another as like a, you're not a pro gamer, but you play on weekends and you enjoy it and you've spent, you've invested time and you've maybe invested money and being able to perform that lateral shift from one game to another in a permissionless environment would be great. So these are things that we're thinking about that we think Tori will enable. And Tori, the way we're trying to build it is in a decentralized manner. So we're taking a leaf out of Manero's playbook and the design isn't set in stone. Like I said, we have a bunch of ideas. We have a community that's forming around Tori. We have a company in South Africa called Tori Labs that has a bunch of developers and researchers that we've hired pretty recently over the past three months and those developers and researchers will be contributing to the Tori project as well as a whole bunch of other people in the ecosystem. There's some Manero people who will be contributing to both Manero and Tori and there's some Tori Labs employees that are gonna be focusing on Manero as well. And I think that this is an interesting fact pattern in terms of building a decentralized application because it means that we're not the source of all knowledge. We're not saying, yeah, as our white paper go forth and we're gonna go forth and build. We're saying like, we have this cool idea. We have some ideas about how to build it and we've got some resources we can leverage but ultimately we need a community to build it. And in many ways that community is something that rises up out of the larger Manero community without poaching resources from the Manero community because we're able to feedback and share resources as much as possible. But this is an application that leverages Manero's existing technology or existing security model rather but we're able to play around from a technology perspective. So, you know, we've looked at things like DAGs and we've looked at, we're very excited about like Mumble Wumble as a technology and we think that Mumble Wumble can be leveraged because the whole idea of Mumble Wumble really is let's put as little information onto the blockchain as possible. Like what is the smallest nugget of information that you need for a transaction? How about just a unique identifier and that's it. And that's a really powerful thing that we're trying to leverage. And then of course lightning and other scalability solutions. And I think what's really interesting about this is that we can potentially create a fact pattern for other projects that wanna build on top of Manero to imitate. They can come into the fold and they can go, oh cool, that's the way we should be building things. Not let's write a white paper, let's do an ICO and then let's centrally issue our security token which totally isn't a security token. That's a utility token, I promise, SEC. You know, it's like yeah, that's a fact pattern that might actually work. And so I think that's kind of exciting. And I think this could be the start of a new class of applications emerging that are built on top of Manero. And one of the most exciting things about building on top of Manero and about inheriting that user base in that community is that there's a culture in Manero that is unavoidable and that is a culture of privacy first. Of privacy being a basic human rights and a basic tenant of the application that you're building. And I think that that is something that if you're building on Ethereum, you're thinking, eh, World Computer and purple cat t-shirts. And if you're building on top of Manero, you're just like paranoid constantly. And so you end up with this amazing culture of like I want to protect myself. I want to protect the other people that are using this tool. I want to protect the user base. And I think if that's the one key takeaway from today, if you're building stuff, you've got to be users first. So to sum up some of the things, blockchains are mad hype right now. If you're working for a company, you probably have been told, hey, should we investigate blockchain technology? But mom. And I think to some degree, you can leverage that. You know, if you're working at a company, if you're working at a fintech company or a security company, if you're a pen tester and whatever, if you're a red teamer, go red teamers, then you can think about ways of leveraging that mad hype and being like, hey, we should investigate ways of breaking all the scam coins out there because we can get paid by shorting them when they break. If you are building a decentralized app, you probably don't need a blockchain. Think about models like BitSquare, Bisk. Think about things like Tor and ITP. Think about all the things that have been built thus far that didn't need a blockchain and yet are decentralized. Also tokens can be useful, especially in merge mining scenarios, but it's imperative to first try a less constrained model because tokens also add a bunch of complexity. Incentives are really hard. And honestly, stuff like Monero and Bitcoin is, it's not just like, oh, slap a token in it and off you go to the races. I mean, there's this delicate balance of incentives, game theory, cryptography, and just pure unadulterated code. And you've got to try and balance all these components and all these different people in the ecosystem. And the minute you slap a token on something, you just add this complexity. And the reality is that users don't care about your token. So a case in point, and this is not to knock any other project, but a case in point is bat, the basic attention token. I love Brave, the browser. I think Brave is an excellent effort at building a browser that is user-focused and to some degree privacy-focused. And I love the work that they're doing there. And yet they've got this token that they did a nice year with and then they've got this whole little in-browser token thing where when you're browsing someone else's content and that person wants to get paid for the content and you can send them some bat and it's a nifty little thing that you can build into it. The problem is like people aren't gonna go buy bat, right? So they airdrop bat onto people that installed Brave and then when those people ran out of bats because they were sending it to people when they watched videos and read articles, they weren't really incentivized to go buy more. So it's like, well, congratulations, you've built a reasonable token economy and yet users are just not incentivized to buy more. And I mean, what are they gonna do? Are they gonna go tell their boss, listen, when you pay me my salary at the end of the month, please put 0.5% in bat so that I can use my browser. I mean, it's just not feasible. So it's unfortunate, but token economics are really hard and users don't care about tokens. They don't wanna have a playthrough of tokens. No user wants to be browsing and then hit QR code and then pull out their phone and scan and then, oh, she's plugging the hardware wallet and then they're able to do things. It's not a good user experience right now. And you also don't need to invent a new security model unless you're an IOT and wanna win a Pony Award. I mean, then go ahead, write everything in trinary and get an AI to invent your hash function. If you have a token, take advantage of existing plumbing. So stuff like HTLCs, which are being leveraged pretty widely for atomic swaps. And of course, lightning, which is being leveraged for everything, for privacy, for laps, for lightning apps and obviously for scalability. And above all, defend your users first, make money second. I think that this is probably the most important thing that I've learned from working from an error over the past four years is you will make money if you're focused on building a product that is amazing for your users, for the people that are using that application. And I think that we're in an incredibly nascent space where everyone has the potential to make a bunch of money and buy their own expensive watch. But we've got to build applications that protect our users first. Making money should be a secondary concern, it'll come. But the focus has to be on protecting users and that means dogfruiting. Use the stuff yourself, see where it breaks, like hate yourself for making that mistake and this other mistake and then go and fix it. And I think that's when an error needs most of all right now is just more people improving the user experience because we've got the privacy stuff done okay, we're doing okay there, we've got the security stuff okay, we've got the decentralization stuff okay, but the user experience kind of sucks and there are a lot of people working on it. But if you haven't played on the Minera code base, now's a good time to learn. So that's all I have to say. Thank you very much for listening to me ramble. And I guess now we'll take questions. Oh good, no questions. There's a question at the back there. Right at the back. Hi Fluffy Pony, thanks for doing the talk man. Thanks. What do you, you talked about atomic swaps. I've heard some other conversations about what's needed, kind of like what the underlying cryptography needs to be invented or researched for that to be able to happen. Could you talk a little more about that? Sure, I think the underlying cryptography largely exists. There's a bunch of stuff that, I mean we don't really have like op codes in Minera for obvious reasons. It's extremely stripped down. And I think that that's probably one of the key things is not a sort of generalized op code, but we can do a specific type of op code that is specifically for HDLCs. So I think there's just some plumbing that needs to be done there. We have multi-sig, which was of course a big component in pretty much everything. And multi-sigs are leveraged in a lot of HDLC type applications and things like zero knowledge contingent payments. A lot of the stuff leverages multi-sig, so now that we've got that, it's sort of time to take the next step. But in terms of the cryptography, I think we're largely there. Next question. Oh cool, I answered everyone's questions. Yes, they're like a child. You can't have a favorite. I love them all equally. Sure, so I think there are a couple of things. I think that the first thing is stuff I've been thinking about is how do people earn Monero? How do they acquire Monero? I think that if we create a culture where it's like, oh, congratulations, you're not using Monero, please swipe your credit card, that's not ideal. And I think we can create models where people earn Monero. So I was thinking the other day, what's the fiver of Monero? How are we building tools that enable people to earn Monero? What's the mechanical turk of Monero? There isn't anything that's solving for that, really. So I think, I mean, there's probably some ICO that is, but there isn't anything really cool that people are building that enables that. So I think that's the first step, is getting people on board from an acquisition perspective, but doing so in a decentralized manner. Getting them to earn Monero without needing to go to some central repository and swipe their credit card, or use PayPal, heaven forbid, and the data goes to 600 companies in Europe. And then of course, like from a UX perspective, just that, like walking people through, you know, like they fire up the application, there's all this terminology they've never heard of before. You know, what's a VUGEE? Like what's, and my favorite, I didn't realize this, but I was in Panama for a few days and I was chatting to regulators, and I kept using the term address. I was like, and then you just send to that person's Monero address, or their Bitcoin address. And after like 30 minutes, someone put their hand up and there was like, so is an address, like their postal address. And I was like, wow, okay, so that's the level we're paying on. And I think that we, you know, there's this terminology that we just take for granted. You know, you fire it up and then it's like, oh, sinking blockchain. Sorry, what? Connected to peers. You know, like none of this stuff makes sense to people. We've got to either change the terminology, which I don't think is gonna happen. We went through a phase where we try to change the terminology from address to account. You know, this is your Monero account. We thought that was better terminology, did not take. And even if it is better to terminology, like no one's gonna use it. You know, address is the thing that everyone uses. Wallets is the thing that everyone uses. So fine, we're gonna use these terms, but let's try and define them. You know, maybe we can have overlays. The first time you hit a screen, maybe it can be like a little overlay that describes some of the elements. Just anything to try and get people through. And I think we'll get there eventually, but yeah, it's like for a newcomer who's new to crypto, the UX is just bad all around. Sure. So that's a good question. I think that anything that holds people earn Monero doesn't, firstly, it doesn't have to be Monero-specific. It can be sort of a more generalized crypto thing. One of the things we've done at Globy is we'll ingest all of the scam coins. No problem, you can pay in Ripple. Even Ripple. Maybe we'll even add Verge. But in terms of being settled, you can only be settled in Bitcoin and Monero and Fiat. So that's massive because then it becomes a funnel. It's like cool, pay us in Ripple. But we'll just convert that to Bitcoin and Monero for the person like when no one's keeping Ripple. So I think that's really powerful, XRP the standard. I think that's really powerful and I think an application that lets people earn Monero can do the same thing. It can be like pay people to do jobs in any currency and then settle them in Bitcoin or Monero or just Monero, whichever. And I think that there's lots of scope for, you can go do VC like no problem with that. And I think that given the conversations that we had with VC firms about Tari and the fact that we were able to raise money from tier one venture capital firms like Trinity and Redpoint and Slow Ventures and all of those guys, I think they've come to some sort of appreciation of Monero, the technology and the fact that it's not going anywhere despite a whole bunch of people's desires. And so there's some, there's tacit respect for Monero. So you just go build something and go raise VC if that's what you need to do. Or just go build something in your garage, do it after hours. I mean, have a side hustle. I had side hustles for ages and they were great. And I think like one of the most powerful things there is building an open source application and doing it in a sort of semi decentralized manner. Open up a GitHub repo, start an IRC channel, invite some people in, get the conversation going. Start a subreddit and just get people helping out, chipping in and helping out. Pick a technology stack, whatever that is. Go, Node.js, Rust, whatever. Build your application and people will pitch up and help if it's the right application and it's the right group of people. Cool? Sure. So I think to answer your question, I don't know, is everyone yet familiar with Eternal September? So Eternal September is this thing where like the internet used to be cool and underground and then AOL came out and dished out a bunch of CDs and suddenly a bunch of people got online in September of like, I don't know, September of 93 or 94, whenever it was. And suddenly the internet and IRC in particular went from being like this cool underground place to like a whole bunch of kids coming in and they didn't know the lingo and they didn't know the parlance and they were like all these running jokes that they didn't get and the culture was like all sort of like upset, you know, the apocat is upset. And I think one of the most telling things was if you were on IRC in the early days, like nobody pretended to be someone they weren't. Like people would, you would go to meetups and people would be the same at meetups as they were in IRC. There was no catfishing, there was none of that. People just like, stupidly, inherently trusted everyone over IRC. Can you imagine doing that today? You know, it was like, oh man, yeah, I'd love to come meet you but I can't pay for the plane ticket. Can you wire me some money? Sure, no problem. I mean, that was a legit thing that happened. And then eternal September happened and that just ruined it for everyone. And I think that to some degree as the Monero community itself gets bigger and as, you know, it's sort of tarry grows and we start heading more mainstream participants or more mainstream people, then yes, we are gonna have our own eternal September. And I think to some degree, like I realized that last year with the consensus announcement, which I thought was hilarious and a whole bunch of people didn't. And you know, in jokes that don't always carry when the audience gets bigger. And I think that we are gonna face that in waves. As people come in, you know, there'll be an article published about Monero funding terrorism in North Korea and then a whole bunch of people will buy Monero or whatever. And then they're gonna pitch up because they think Monero's gonna get big and they wanna earn money and they wanna buy a watch. And you're not gonna be able to control that. You're not gonna be able to stop those people from coming in. But I think what we can do and what we have already is a culture that carries. We have a culture where people come in and they're like, when Lambo? And everyone goes, shut up, go to Monero Price Talk or whatever. They get shuffled to different areas where they can go and post memes, where they can go and talk about price and whatever. And it leaves the sort of, the main thoroughfares, the main areas where people chat about Monero are largely free of that sort of thing. And that's really powerful. And I think as long as we continue pushing people into different areas, then that'll be the best way to try and stave off eternal September for as long as possible. Yes? What is this consensus? Oh, sorry. No, no, no, that's fine. At consensus last year, which is a conference in New York, I made an announcement which was a fake announcement. I announced the Monero Enterprise Alliance, which doesn't exist. And... I lied. You see, yeah, you are using a trustless digital currency and yet you trusted someone. Rookie mistake. But anyway, yeah, and I took a lot of heat from that. Not so much from people who'd been in the Monero community for a long time because they found it hilarious, but there were people that on the wake of the, or on the expectation of the announcement bought Monero. And I mean, I'm sorry that sucks for them, but it wasn't my intention to try and sort of upset the market and yet that's what happened. So I think my point really was largely about just as the community gets bigger, it just becomes harder and harder to try and manage expectations and to have in-jokes continue to run. So regulators are interesting. I mean, some of them have... Well, there's two things. The first is that a lot of regulators, not so much in Panama because they have a fantastic banking infrastructure, but in Venezuela, there were a lot of politicians that love Monero, unsurprisingly, so that they can keep all this stuff hidden. And so there's a lot of like, well, we like Monero for our own use, but we don't want the people down there using it because we want to be able to extract blood. And it's very two-faced. And so then they, but they don't express concerns that way. They're like, oh, we really like Monero, but we're deeply concerned about its ability to fund terrorism and send money to North Korea. And I'm like, yes, I'm deeply concerned about cash as well. Gold bars, those are the problems. Expensive wristwatches, we should stop sending those to North Korea. And so, you know, I mean, you just got to have those conversations. I tend to, whenever regulators talk to me and they say, oh, we're concerned about the potential for using Monero for X, I just repeat the thing back at them, but use, replace the word Monero with cash. I'm like, yes, I am also concerned about cash being used for that. Cash is indeed bad. And they get the idea. It takes them a few tries before they realize what's happening. Is that too? Cool. Thank you very much.