 The new strategic agenda and the future of Europe is, of course, a most important moment in terms of the European Union when this was agreed in June 2019. This will be the focus for all EU countries when we are getting into what we expect to be the last of the first phase of the withdrawal agreement. It sets out in outline all the important areas for action, which will provide the framework for the EU in the next five years. And also the framework for the work of the Commission. And this was outlined and brought somewhat more into focus by Commissioner-elect von der Leyen in her speech to the European Parliament where she set herself actually some timetable for implementation of some areas in the strategic agenda. In Ireland we have an agreement with the Department of Foreign Affairs in the future of the EU 27 where we work with them looking towards Ireland's future in the EU 27. Portugal and Ireland, of course, are both consistently pro-European and have worked closely together in our membership of the EU. Importantly, Portugal, I think like Ireland, Minister, sees the EU as a critical platform in multilateralism and international cooperation. And we continue to work strongly in that regard together. Of course, it has to be said that Portugal has made a huge contribution to multilateralism. Having three existing heads of multilateral organisations in Antonio Vittorina as Director-General of the International Organization for Migration, Mario Santana, President of the Eurogroup, and of course Antonio Suarez as UN Secretary-General, and last of course, but not least, Jose Maria Baroso, who was for ten years leading the EU, which I think by any standard is an amazing contribution. And we all appreciate the leadership that they have given to us, particularly when multilateralism is under threat. And in the issues that go forward, of course, Brexit does loom. And I think, as we mentioned downstairs, the importance of continued cooperation with the UK and that Anglo-Portuguese Alliance of 1356 is the oldest alliance in still and existent. But anyway, it's to the strategic agenda and the future of Europe and the floor is yours, Minister. Thank you very much. Don't be afraid, I won't read all this. Well, so, good afternoon. And it's, I want to thank Professor Jill Donahoe and Maria Cross for this invitation and the Institute for International and European Affairs here in Dublin. It's really a privilege to be here with you today. I decided in the end that it would be probably better to start from the world to European Union to Portugal and Ireland. So let's do this approach. And so I would like, first of all, to point out that it's a couple of months only for us to get into the third decade over the 21st century. We're going there. I remember when I was working at UNESCO, for instance, we were on the year 2000, I said 2020, wow, that was so far away. And here we are, here we are. And some say that this is a decade of seismic shifts, the decade of the age of transition. And it's very interesting because it's a transition to several different situations that we need to understand. A transition to a warmer planet with life-threatening consequences for humankind. A transition to a multipolar global system which must accommodate new players seeking their places in the global stage. And as Tony Blair was saying yesterday in Lisbon, a world competition to see who has the craziest politicians. Where are we? Where are we going on this? So it's the politics of Twitter, the politics of the immediate. Are we prepared to have a democratic system? Is our democratic system prepared for this? What can we do? This will need a transition set of mind too. So it's climate change that will have this huge impact on economy. It's this global shift in power. There are new players emerging. It's a transition to an ageing world. And in Europe, this will be seen in a very strong way. We are becoming the average age of a person in Europe in the year 2050 will be 45 years. Can you imagine? The age of someone now in Africa, the average age by that time will be 23. So warmer, multi-global, multipolar system, an ageing world where Europe will be dramatically affected, a transition to a new economic paradigm shaped by the rise of the East, greater pressure to consume these finite resources that we have and at the same time a shift to probably and hopefully a more sustainable solution in terms of economy with circular economy, renewable energies, a new economy of the future, bringing in new needs for new technology, new types of infrastructure. Finally, we need all these transition periods, all these transition ideas and shifting that we'll see around the world are bringing some sort of unrest, a certain sense of alienation, a certain idea that there are inequalities in the world and there are a sense of difficulty to deal with the democratic processes that we have. People are voting less, they are prepared less to go and vote and they are showing in the streets their disagreements. We see people demonstrating in Hong Kong, in Chile, in Spain, in every weekend in the streets of France sometimes. So we see this unrest and this is probably brought in by this transition moment that we are living. So where is Europe now? Taking into account all this need to shift and this new decade that is coming in, where is Europe? The pessimistic view would say, oh God, Europe is divided, they are not functioning. Look, there is not even a commission in place. The parliament is divided, it's more fragmented, they cannot put together ideas about migration, not about enlargement, not about the monetary union, not about the rule of law, not functioning. Above all, okay, maybe there's someone as usual writing a plan somewhere sitting at the desk. This is the pessimistic view. The optimistic view will say, well, Europe is alive, Europe is living through what any country is living, which is trying to form a coalition government, if we look it in that way, try to bring in the fragmented way in which people voted for the European Parliament, bring it into a commission that we want now to be a paratary, equalitary between women and men, the same number in the commission. And it takes its time, but that's the way we function in Europe. We need time to bring in consensus. So it's the way it is. We cannot push it to action because it will not probably reflect the consensus that it's needed to advance. And then we can also say that Europe has already a strategic agenda. So Europe is sorting out the way forward in the future. And it is true that things are moving and we hope that by the end of the year we will have a full commission. Now it's said that on the 27th of November there will probably be a vote in Parliament for the full commission. By the 1st of December we'll have a new president of the council. So by then, by the end of the year, we will have the program of work of the commission and we will be able to move forward. And what is this strategic agenda? The strategic agenda is setting this movement. How can we navigate these waters? And it is important because though we do not have the program yet, also of underlining and the council approved the idea of a vision of a protective, prosperous, green and fair global influential EU. Okay, so you can say this is words, just words. How are we going to implement this? That's the way. So protective, what is a protective union? A protective union is a union that deals with a comprehensive program on migration. That has an effective control of its external borders. It's a union that deals with a fight against terrorism. That take care of these hybrid threats and the issues of disinformation that are looming in our societies. It's also about protecting European democracy and how to make it really work. It's all about our own values that we need and that are at the fundamental bottom of everything that we can build in Europe. Without the rule of law, without the fundamental values, there is no democracy in Europe, there is not a European union. We know about single states that can survive or live without the rule of law, can talk about them as the data ships. They survived, we know, they are here, but the union will not survive with the rule of law because it's fundamental and basic for our life. Then the other aspect, like our friends in the States used to say, it's the economy stupid. So we really need to focus on the economy. But on an economy that is a vibrant economic basis, it's the single market, it's the completion of the European Economic Monetary Union. It's all about to have the instruments that allow us to survive to the next crisis that will come sooner or later. We know it will come. That's the way the economics in the world functions. We need to have the instruments to be resilient and to survive that. But it's more than that, like President Ekins said. Instead of a discourse that might define Europe as simply an economic space of contestation between strong and weak, our citizens yearn for the language of solidarity, of cohesion, of a generous inclusive rhetoric that is appropriate to an evolving political union. So it's not just about money. It's not just about having everything functioning. It's above all about solidarity. And how can we build a climate neutral, green, fair and social Europe? So here we go for a 2050 carbon neutral Europe. Here we go for a green deal. And here we go for global action on climate change. And at the same time, we need to mitigate the costs and challenges of this green transition for the European citizens and a commitment to the social impact that this will have. Because if we go into a economic circular economy, which is the new trend, this will probably certainly will be more sustainable. Instead of having a partner of consumption, that is, you buy 20 t-shirts, you just have one. And it will be done in your constituency, in your area, because like that it will be carbon neutral. If you go to that, there will be a couple of people without employment somewhere else. So we need to see this in a coordinated way. And then you have a society that is based on the new technologies, the digital technologies, the new renewable energies. All this will have an impact at the level of work, the work as we see it today. So the jobs in 10 years will not be the jobs that we have now. And we need to prepare people. We need to have them skilled to do that. And we need to have the tools for older people that have difficulty in adapting. And we need to have the tools for the children and the young to adapt to. So we need to have a European pillar for social rights that really works. Then the final line is about our interests and defending our interests abroad. And here we have trade policy. How are we going to deal with trade policy in the future? And how are we going to combine trade policy and development, for instance in Africa? We've seen that many of the populist government bring in the issue of migration as a protectionist, as a way of protecting its society, saying we don't want any more. We don't want people. We don't want these foreign people here. Let's put a wall around Europe. And the Irish and the Portuguese know quite well what a migrant is. We know the millions of people that left our home countries and they are all around the world. We know the difficulties this entails. So we have to understand and we have to create the channels for, creating the channels for an organized legal migration. And at the same time we need to give to these people the possibilities of integration in the territories and the countries where they are coming to. And at the same time we all know what our migrants like to go to the United States if they had the conditions to stay in our home countries? Of course not. They would stay in Portugal or in Ireland if they had the conditions. They had to immigrate because they didn't have the conditions at home. That's what we need to do and supporting Africa. We need to find ways to bring in a better economic situation for the people of the different African countries and we need to diversify. So far, Kenya, South Africa, Morocco, Egypt, there are basically the African states that gather 58% of trade with Europe. The rest is almost nothing. We need to diversify. We need to have trade with Mozambique, with Angola, with Cape Verde. We need to have trade with Central Africa. We need to engage with the different countries of Africa and sometimes stop talking about a continent that has 56 member states and we talk about Africa. We talk about something like America. So we need to understand and have this real partnership, develop a partnership with Africa. And then we have to take care also of our neighbourhood and we have to see what are we going to do with our traditional partners in the United States, Canada and Latin America and what we are going to do with China and the race of China and all the other different countries in Asia. So this is what the strategic agenda brings in. All these elements are there. How are we going to do this needs a discussion amongst member states because we can always, we can all and each of us bring new things, bring new elements, bring our own capacity to implement this agenda. And of course we need money. We cannot do this without money. That's why we are discussing the new budget for the next seven years at the new level. We're talking about one trillion euros. It's a lot of money and yet it's so little. It's 1% of the 27 GDP. It's small and yet we need to know what are we going to do with this money. We need to continue supporting what we call the traditional policies of covision of common agriculture policy but we also need to look into new things, science and technology. We need to become more competitive in this area. We need to finance the digital agenda. We need to finance the issue of migration. We need to find money also for our development corporation. So strategic agenda and budget are now combined and discussed at the same level. At the same time we need to find the way forward here. And where do Portugal stands on this? It's interesting because now I talk a little bit about my own country. We had a huge, we passed very difficult moments during the crisis. And finally after 2015 we started a movement upwards trying to get rid of the difficulties that we had. The economy is growing a little bit above the eurozone growing around 1.72%. It's not a lot but for us it's very meaningful. And we are converging with the rest of the European Union. And we are a country that is in the continent. So our major exporter and importer is our neighbour, it's Spain. We also have a strong relation with France and a very structured relation with Germany. And from there we go even to I would say the Czechs and the Slovaks. So we have this continental line. Then we are members of the MED7. We meaning that we have a special relation with the Mediterranean countries. So we talk with France, with Italy, with Greece, with Malta, with Cyprus. We talk with all these countries. But are we a Mediterranean country? We aren't. I always say that we are the most Mediterranean of the Atlantic countries. We are on the Atlantic coast. And so we are looking for partners up there north. That's why we have this beautiful alliance with the UK since 1386. Because we considered ourselves like an island too. We had this big neighbour next door. And then there was the sea, so we decided we chose the sea. And this is the reason why we had this relation with the UK. And so I think that now we are looking for partners. And we are looking for partners in this Atlantic region. I was ambassador to Estonia. And for me was very interesting to see that when I arrived there, there was a gentleman saying, oh, do you know about our national instrument, the bagpipe? We said the bagpipe is your national instrument. Good, because it's also ours. She said, no, you don't have bagpipes in Portugal. Yes, we do. And we have bonfires in St John's Day. Because we have a Celtic influence, very strong in the north of Portugal. And sometimes people don't know that on the 13th century, there was this daughter of one of our first kings who married the king of Denmark. And then they went to conquer the city that existed already in Estonia, which is now Tallinn, Darlina, the city of the Danish. She was a Portuguese princess that married with this king of Denmark and then got to Estonia on the 13th century. What a brave woman. And so we have this heritage. We do have this heritage of Celtic nature. And it's very important now when we all talk about Brexit. How would we redefine, number one, our relations in the future with the UK? Because we want to have the UK not just as a competitor. We want to have the UK very close to us. We want to have a good relationship in terms of economy. We have a free trade agreement, but also in the realm of science and technology, science and intelligence, climate change. And then we need to define how are we going to increase our cooperation as Atlantic countries, Portugal, Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, but also Norway and Iceland, how can we cooperate and work better? a i wneud ond y gallu bod y bwysig ychydig yn iawn ar gweithio'r gweithio y Lliniaeth Cymru, y Lliniaeth Argyrchu, ac y Lliniaeth Aetholant i Europ. Mae'n ddoron yn ddifrif o'i bwysig y bwysig. Mae'n ddifrif o'ch ddechrau argylcheddol ac mae'n ddifrif o'ch ddifrif o'r ddifrif o'ch ddifrif o'r ddifrif oedd. Because normally we are very like-minded. We think about trade as a very important issue. We have, all the time, this question of being smaller countries, defending our interest, pushing for values in the European Union, pushing for democracy, pushing for some pragmatism. So it's important that we develop this line of work on the Atlantic. ac ydych yn fyddi'r gweithio'r byd ac os ydych yn fwybodaeth o Washington, ychydig o'r UK? Rydym yn bwysig yn ymwneud o'r rhannu ar gyfer y rhannu ar yr American friends. Gwybod yna rhoi'n gwneud y celf yn Europion? Fe yna dwylo, ac mae'r Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'r rhannu a chyfnodol a'r Rhannu. Ono, ond mae'n rhaid o'r canfodau yng nghylch yn Ysbethau eich Llywodraethau, a dyna ymddur y Llywodraeth yma, y cyfaciliadau, felly rhai'n gwybod y mynd o'r ffordd yng Nghymru yng Nghymru. A dyna, yn fwy o'ch gyflawni Porthogol a Ysbethau yn eich gweithio gwybod, yn fwy o'r ddweud. Mae'n gweithio, mae'n ddweud o'r holl o'r llwyddiol a ddifithio i ddechrau a bod yn dechrau, mae'n ei ddweud o rheswm am ddiddordeb. Rhesiliadau i'r ffordd, ond rhesiliadau bryd, rhesiliadau ar y bryd, ar y bryd, ac mae'r bryd, mae'r bryd, mae'r bryd, mae'r bryd. Felly mae'r bryd ei ddweud, mae'r bryd ei ddweud, ac mae'r bryd ei ddweud yr ysgol yn afrygiad. Yn ymdîch, yn ymdîch, It's also in Africa, where we can work together. Portugal has some sort of experience. We've been there, we know the countries. You want to engage in this? Let's go together. Let's go together. In common projects that we can organize, that we can do in the digital area. It's interesting to see how Ireland has developed mae'r gwaith er mwynhau ymddangos cyhoedd ymddangos o'r gwaith yn ysgol, ar yr ysgol ymddangos, ond byddwch yn cael ei wneud anghyddiadau. Byddwch yn cael ei wneud. Yn gweithio, mae gennych eich idea ond y gwaith yn cerddur yn ei wneud, rydyn ni'n rydyn ni'n gweithio ymdangos efo'r peth. Mae'r gwaith yn unigill. Rydyn ni'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gwaith yn afri. Not just in the perspective of way to development, but also in trade, really engaging with a partner on eye to eye, and how can we work together and develop. So all this is part of this strategic agenda that we need to implement. This will need a lot of debate, a lot of discussion being with our own citizens, so people understand what is the union doing, and this needs a lot of conversations in the union itself amongst member states, because this also needs the money of the next budget. So everything has to be seen in a combined way. It will take its time. Hopefully we will do this before the Portuguese presidency of the union in the first semester of 2021. I don't want to deal with this. But we have the first year of this decade to sort all these things out. We need to sort this out so that the union can be a beacon of light, a beacon of democracy, a beacon of something that is bringing a positive message to a world in transition. We need to adapt, but we need to do it in a very strong, coordinated, solitary way. I think that united, united we shall prevail. Thank you. Thank you, Minister. That was a real tour de force, and I think you have opened up the strategic agenda and made it much more accessible to us as to what the possibilities are. I think you made clear the link between the strategic agenda and the ongoing discussions and what are called the MFF, the budgetary discussions, but in fact which at the end of the day I think policy and the strategic agenda will depend very much on the outcome of the budgetary discussions. But now to follow that, could I open the floor? As I mentioned, the minister has kindly agreed to take questions which are on the record, and we have some time to do so. Perhaps you could identify yourself if you're asking the question. In relation to your traditional relationship with the United Kingdom, would you comment on what you might see as any particular to Portugal disruptive effects in a post-Brexit situation? Now I know there's still an if about Brexit, although I think it's rather likely in some of all myself, and if it is to come we have Johnson's deal on the table which may well be the situation before the end of the year. There are other talks to take place with the commission. After that I know, but just any thinking that has taken place in Portugal upon the disruptive effects of Brexit. From our point of view, there is nothing positive in Brexit, nothing. We cannot find one single element that could be positive on Brexit, but it's a decision from the British people, we respect it, we have to live with it, let's do it the best possible way. For us and for, I would say, all the 27 member states, it was clear that we need to be together, and this is a fundamental aspect of all this. We kept together, we worked together, and there were many people saying that, okay, well, there are special relations with the UK of this country, that country, will derange this capacity of being together, but it didn't happen. And we were all together with Ireland because Ireland was part of us. And there was a moment now at this end of this negotiation of this agreement that is now on the table, that we are all very cautious and we all understood that the timing was the timing of Ireland. We had to wait until Ireland said, okay, I have here a green light to this. And just then we would say, okay, let's see, let's see this thing that you come to, this conclusion that you can do. So there was indeed an incredible coordination and an incredible solidarity towards Ireland. Now disruptive effects of the Brexit. There are many, some of them hopefully are taken care of, which is the citizens rights. We have 400,000 Portuguese in the UK. It's a huge community and we were afraid that what would happen to them. So it's, and thanks God things seem to be fine. There is a compromise from the British side. There is a compromise from all of us to take care also of the British citizens in our own countries. We have also a big community in Portugal. So we were afraid what happened, but it seems to be taken care of. This was the main worry. The second effect is certainly in the economy. The UK for Portugal is the fourth trading partner. There is a lot of concerns about what will happen. Fortunately, what we export to the UK, it's very specific. It's the only thing that our business people were afraid is that they would start buying things from others and not from Portugal. We export textiles, shoes, car parts. We export agricultural products, beverages. And some of these elements can only find in Portugal. So it's fine. But others, they can start importing them from Asian countries. And that's a bit of a worry. And that opens new possibilities, including for Ireland. Because when we do our preparedness meetings with our business people, they say, okay, so how do I diversify my market? And they say, okay, fine, there is this other country next to the UK where I can export or where I can invest. And so I think here, too, there is good ground for better cooperation between the Portugal and Ireland. Thank you. It's probably the only good thing about Brexit. No. If you won't go there. Yes, Patrick, did you want? No. Okay, then we have several questions. Horst, and then Francis, and then Jale, and then Ciaran. I think we'll have to take a few together. No, all right. Horst. I'm Horst Sieglach. I'm Horst Sieglach, a member of the Institute. You mentioned similarities between Ireland and Portugal. Both are the most western countries of Europe. And you mentioned all the neighbours on the Atlantic. But there was no reference to the big neighbour, the other side of the Atlantic, which is for both countries very important. And I take up the term strategic agenda. You used the explanation Europe should be protective. Protection includes, in the strategic sense, also security. Security externally and internally against terrorism and just kind of threats. And you mentioned the budget, the EU budget, which has one innovation, which is the European Defence Fund. That brings me back to the question, how is Portugal, the security aspect of the EU. In particular, since Portugal is one of the founding members of NATO. Thank you. Thank you. I'll take a second question, Minister Francis. Thank you very much, Minister, for really stimulating talk. You spoke very eloquently about the need for greater solidarity. Portugal is obviously one of the minority of left-of-centre governments at the moment in Europe. How do you plan to push the social agenda at the European level? That's my first question. And the second one is you mentioned the small budget. So, where do you stand on the current MFF size of the budget discussions? And do you think that there's any scope in the future, obviously not now after Brexit, for a considerably bigger budget? I ask that because I remember, I've got a long enough memory to remember, the MacDougall report in 1977 saying there needs to be a pre-federal budget of around 3%. And look at the debate now, where do you stand on a slightly larger budget than this one-centre security and money? Yeah, so on the money, on the money. For the moment, the discussion is between how the level, the total amount of the budget should be between the proposal of the commission, which is 1.11% of GDP of the 27. And what the European Parliament proposes, which is 1.30%. With 1.30%, the proposal of the parliament brings in a very, very important thing, meaning that cohesion policy, which is fundamental for Member States, for investment, for bringing in the backward regions to push them for more convergence, and the money for the common agriculture policy at the same level that we have now. And on top of this, we would have enough money to deal with migration, with science and technology, with a digital agenda, with external policy and security. So one point, the parliament did the right thing. They said, what do we need to do? This, this, this, this. How can we finance this, this, this, this? So this is the minimum, 1.3%. Now, the commission went, was less ambitious. They say, ooh, we know that this is not going to fly. So they reduced all this, they cut a bit in cohesion, they cut a bit in common agriculture policy, and they brought it down to 1.11%. OK. But now, we have a proposal on the table from the presidency, saying 1% and 1% only. And this means even further cuts, further cuts. It's going to be impossible. So 1% is what Germany, Sweden, Finland, Finland, well, Finland a bit. Denmark, Netherlands and Austria, they all want just 1%. So this would be a, I would say a disaster, because it's cutting the union at its heart. It's cutting cohesion, it's cutting agriculture, it's cutting the possibility to expand what we really need to do in the future. Somewhere we will find a balance, we will find an agreement, hopefully in the first semester next year, because we need the programs for cohesion to start in time. Let's see. But it's indeed, we need to find this solidarity, because this is a budget of the union. We cannot see this just in national envelopes, and then this idea of the just retour that I put x, I receive x, which is exactly the same. This cannot happen. We are a union. This is not the way in any country. We have a, I know quite well that the union is not a country, we're not a federation, of course we're not. But this is an investment budget. It's an investment budget, so we need to use it for the things that are very important. And one of the things that is important is security, for sure. We need to work more and better. It doesn't make sense that we have five or six or seven types of tanks, that we have six or seven types of whatever type of weaponry that we have. We need to work together better on this idea of research for defence, because it's also a relevant area where we need to work. And this has an impact in the industries of defence. And when we talk industries of defence, we're not just talking about making weaponry. We need to talk about textiles. We need this innovative textiles that change colour with these incredible new things that are coming. It's about many other aspects that we need to coordinate better. And this is important for those countries that are already in NATO, and for the ones that are not in NATO, where we can also cooperate in terms of defence of the European Union. Because when we talk about defence and we talk about security, we talk about a large, broader programme, it's not just military, it's also the need to fight with it, the need to work on intelligence, the need to work against terrorism, it's other areas that I'm expanding to. Thank you, Minister Jo. Thank you so much for such a beautiful environment. It's very important, very useful for our work at the Institute. Thank you very much indeed. Two things, just on your GPS system. I really liked the idea of the way you described the three strands, the Atlantic, the continental, and the Mediterranean group, because I think it's quite inclusive, and it doesn't sort of have that sense of fractured union about it. We're always just looking for ways to re-conceptualise the union, so I thought that was quite interesting underpin, presumably, by bilateral relations as well as relations with groups. But just going back to a point there picking up on the industry that Horst has mentioned, where does Portugal stand on the concept of an EU industrial policy champion, of course, by France, which has a tradition in sort of promoting European champions, but really quite different to the traditional order of liberal German approach to competition? When Professor Jill Donner who is talking about the GPS, the GPS says the trio of presidencies, it's first Germany, then Portugal, then Slovenia. So the GPS, as we call it, it's the trio of presidencies that will lead the Council of the European Union during 18 months starting on July 2020. And we have been discussing all this, including industrial policy. It is important for us industrial policy, as for any member state, that's for sure. And we understand that we cannot leave this out. Industry is very important for the union, but the idea of this champions of industry, we have our doubts about it because it's... These champions are only relevant the moment they bring in 100 or 200 SMEs around them. For instance, the car industry produces this. The car industry, there are champions of the car industry, we all know them, but around a structure of a car production, there is always around it an array of small and medium-sized enterprises. Those who produce the textiles for the seats, the ones that produce the security belts, the ones that do whatever thing. And this has an impact in the industry all around. And this has also an impact in the social domain. And this has an impact in research too. So if these are the sorts of champions that we're talking, okay, fine. But if we are just talking about big conglomerates, but only benefit the centre, we need to look into this in an encompassing way and also in a way that is relevant for all of us. It's the same thing when we talk about the need of excellence in research and technology. Of course we need to have this excellence and we need money for the champions of excellence in Europe. That's for sure. We need to have these institutions where huge research programmes are done. But we cannot forget that every single member state has his own capacity, something to put in, something to give to these projects. We cannot be outside of this. So here too we need convergence, here too we need cohesion. Because we all can benefit or should benefit from this capacity of the Europe of the Horizon 2020 programme that has been so important for all our countries. So a huge facility in one country, it's not enough. We need all to be able to contribute to that. And to be involved, yes. Minister, thank you very much. I'm sorry to say we have to bring this question and answer which you have so generously answered to a close because of time constraints because the minister is going to travel to the border and it's not a very good day. But you've given us such a clear, strong and also optimistic view of Europe. And I think actually we do need to be reminded with all of the negative publicity regarding the effect of Brexit and the various negative aspects as you outlined at the beginning of the lack so far of the approval of the commission, a certain fracturing in the European Parliament. We have to remind ourselves of the huge positive aspects of the European Union. And of course one of those was unity and I really want to express our thanks to Portugal for the solidarity that you have shown with Ireland even to the extent, as you say, of travelling to the border. And we are very appreciative of it. I think the effect of all of that has been for Irish people to appreciate what that solidarity means. So thank you for coming today. Thank you for sharing as I say in a very clear way the vision both for Europe and for Portugal and for Ireland. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. And we always say that dreams can be lies but dreaming is a reality. That's good.