 Will you please tell us your name and a little bit about you so we can get to know you a little bit better, please? Sure. My name is Tracy Dokes. I am a graduate of engineering school here in North Carolina. I won't say which one. I'm very, very proud of it. Currently, I am the CEO of MCNC, which provides high-speed fiber across the state. And prior to that, I was the state CIO working in the governor's cabinet. And so I am, you know, married two kids and particularly focused on my black son. Okay. And so do you have concerns about your children? How old are they? Are they old enough for them to be out and about on their own without you, or are they still at home? So my daughter is 25. And so she just graduated law school, so she'll be out. You know, she's got her own place now working for a law firm and away from that very sheltered college university community. And my son is 20, and he goes to NC State. So he is on campus currently, and a very heavy studier of society, socialism, all of the things that we take for granted, and his generation looks at in a different way, certainly from a different perspective. And yeah, I do worry about both of them very much. So I have known you for maybe 10, 11 years, and I have seen your career grow exponentially. You were a senior leader at Duke Health. You said about your time at state and now in MCNC. Can you tell us how is it that you have been able to be so successful, and what have you had to let go, and what have you had to gain in order to maintain that success? So I attribute my success, besides all of the normal attributes that you would expect as base foundational, right? But it really is networking, my network. And I say this all the time, especially to young black women who are starting out finding your tribe, your tribe of people who support you, who speak your name with positivity and integrity, and remember you when things come about. And so my reputation for me has been everything. And every job I've gotten for the last, I don't know, 20 years has been by word of mouth, not by me applying for something. And yeah, it's been by somebody knowing my reputation and asking them if I'm interested. And so that's the way, yeah, the last 20 years or so, my opportunities have come about, but it had everything to do with my network. It's tough in Research Triangle Park to be in a network that at least used to be predominantly men, but women, particularly in technology, we are starting to grow and build our own network so that we can also hire people that look and smell like us too, and kind of get away from the such a minority of women and people of color in technology. The thing that I had to let go was my ego. So I've had some really tough experiences in my journey that I won't lie that hurt me deeply, but shaped me greatly. Where I knew I was clearly being sidelined, but my ego wouldn't let me go down. So I just kept fighting and fighting and fighting. And I think at some point that kind of energy that you're expending can be negative to your spirit. It really can be. And you have to figure that out early, sooner than late, so that you can say, okay, this is not the right place for me. I need to make a change for my spirit in order for me to continue to be a good person and someone that is moving forward. So, and that's a different thing to get rid of your ego. It really is. I'm not known as a conceded, arrogant person, but they're still in all of us. And the ego that kind of keeps us, you know, when we feel like we're being discounted, that we want to fight, we want to know, I'm going to show you. And a lot of times it's not about them, just to release them and either create your own thing or find out where else you might be welcome so that you can make a change. And I think that was one of the hardest things for me to do is to be discounted and allowing my ego to just fall by the wayside. And it was good for me to do that. And I think that your success in doing that is probably attributed to the success you have now. But I will tell you, as a Black woman, 45, 46 plus years of experience, never been, never missed a deadline, never had a project coming in time. And like you, I have a community, but for me, my community is not one like you speak of, right? So I've let my ego go a long time ago. You know, I'm done with it. You know, the labels that are attributed to me, okay, that's what you think of me. I can't worry myself about that. But the key is how do people like you and others see what's happening to Black and Brown people. And I would even say women of all gender, all races, you know, and bring them along, you know, and bring them with you or introduce them to your network or explain to them how to create their own tribe as you describe. I think that's really an important thing because, you know, it's sort of like some of us get so high up, we forgot how we got there and you don't look back down to see all the people shoulders you stood on to get where you are. Yeah, and I stay very connected to the people who got me where I am from the person in college that knew that I was struggling to feed myself and found a little part-time job for me. I still know that person and I interact with her. And when she needed help a few years back, I helped her because it was the right thing to do and because I remembered that someone did that for me. She gave me a chance and she did many other things that she did that really helped me significantly as I was trying to learn and grow with a whole bunch of obstacles in my way. As well as today, I spend a lot of time with other nonprofits that are female-based or female and people of color because I think it's important. I remember feeling isolated in college because of the predominantly male-oriented groups and cliques that congregated together and so as a female, it's hard to break into those things and so there's a several organizations. So there's one called Corral Riding Academy out in Cary and it is a horse farm and they do equine therapy for at-risk girls, mainly girls of color and they start at middle age. A lot of these girls have come from very abusive homes, not very supportive communities around them and the job of the mission for this group is to help change that for them and their families. And I sit on the board of that group. I talk to the girls, I volunteer there so that they can see that there is a way out of there, that there's somebody that looks and smells like them that is different and is doing something different and I think that's really important. I spoke at their graduation this year so that I could get an expanded group of girls. Some of it was on-site but most of it was online and really trying to get more donors for the mission of that group so that they could continue to educate and support our girls throughout the summer when they had nothing to do. A lot of them didn't even have high-speed internet access so that usually smells, spells trouble for girls like that and keeping those summer programs up and keeping them engaged so they also don't get behind when everyone else is starting school. That's just one example. Sue Harnett who does rewriting the code is very, very focused on STEM girls across the country and having a tribe and a network even if it's across the U.S. and I believe Canada so that there is a connection between each girl and some companies that help support and fund some of the work that they do. It's been tough for them this year because of COVID a lot of those girls lost their internships and offers were rescinded so you know being able to come back and try to inspire the girls to hold on and to encourage other companies to you know as they're getting back on their feet to remember that those internships that went away to make sure they find a way to get those back and the offers that were rescinded so I do spend time in nonprofits that are focused on those things. Does your network also include just people who you know in STEM, areas? No, no not at all and I think that's important. One there's just not that many of us right and two the I think we're getting stronger but all the power is not ours yet. Will it ever be? I don't know. I don't know in our lifetime but it is certainly spreading out a little more than it has which I'm thankful but I will say I do get tapped a lot for stuff. It's like well would you be interested in this would you and it's almost like and I get it you know it's like whoa she's a black woman and she's doing stuff and black lives matter and we're trying to be diverse and how about we and it's like I don't have that kind of time and there's plenty of other people out here that have the time the inclination the energy to do that. That's the thing that I struggle with a little bit is oh there's one let me you know tap into that one so I do think we need to publicize ourselves more so they don't just see one or two of us. Interesting so I have a question might be an uncomfortable question but do you think that you are still in the working environment still a black woman or are you simply just a woman? I'm always going to be a black woman there's no way around that I'm always going to be a black woman and I'm going to carry that with me no matter what I'm always going to be a woman and now I was hired because of my skills and what I could do with and for MCNC. I'm known for being able to manage services build new services cost structures new models for how you cost recover costs I know that that was a major part of why I was hired but I don't think anybody can neglect the fact that I'm a black woman I just don't think in this instance I was hired because I was one now what I will say about the state um Governor Cooper had the most diverse cabinet in the history of North Carolina and that was truly amazing to be a part of that and the strength in numbers and in how you know it was like normal conversation but most of us were um that actually um the white male was the minority in the cabinet so it was a very big conversation particularly when we got to Black Lives Matter and how we wanted to handle that and how the governor supported us in the way that we did it. Excellent so you mentioned Black Lives Matter tell me what that means to you when you hear that phrase. I put you this way it should always matter and it's a sad day when we have to get megaphones out and remind people or to tell people that that hurts me to my soul that we are at that place um for someone who has a black son that has always mattered Black Lives have always mattered to me because I've always seen discrimination bigotry coming from a really small town in the valley that happened to me all the time it was not new so I watched the work through and maneuvered navigated through um a world like that my whole life and I think it's gotten way more violent and way more visible um I'm probably more violent first and more prevalent and then more visible and um it hurts it hurts every time I see a new um incident that's come about I worry for my son but you know getting pulled over something happening because he's he's down for the cause he's got the dreadlocks he is very very um the civil rights oriented and has no shame in his game about talking about that very vocally he also understands because his sister is a lawyer what his rights are and will be to say that but that still doesn't mean that he can't get hurt so that that that scares me for him my husband you know by my uh my brother uh it just and and I've gotten to the point now and I hate to say it I hate to say this publicly but it's true the George Floyd video I could not watch it hurt me so so much though so much as a mother and hearing that he was calling out for his own that could be my son that could be my son and so um Black Lives Matter is so important I just I'm just struggling to see a change now for my son's generation and my daughter's generation what I will say is when they interview for jobs their first question is which diversity look like can I see your numbers and my daughter when she was searching for law firms that was what she wanted to know so I do think there's a generation coming that is not going to settle and they're going to be a little pickier about um where they're going to go because they're want they want to go where they know they have a chance and they want to be able to use that opportunity to reach back and so for my daughter for example pro bono work was really important to her because she works on the innocence project and she wanted to be able to continue to do that so you've got a generation of people that are coming up that look at things much differently and it's not just I um for them they they want to live the life they want to live the life of diversity not just trying to find pockets where there is diversity if that makes sense yes yeah well I I would just tell you so when I think about Black Lives Matter um I think I feel a little bit differently than you do probably because I'm much older than you are but but I will say you know like I think Black Lives Matter and I often give this analogy the way Black Lives are in America and maybe globally I can't say I don't know what other countries are doing but it's like you call there's a house on fire you call the fire department the fire department arrives on the street and they start pouring water on all the houses they're not on fire they're just sitting there and the house over here that's on fire it's going to burn to the ground and when that house is burnt to the ground there you go so you know I am not optimistic I like you have a son too I have a son who has had a chronic health condition ever since he was about 15 or 16 years old I don't know he remember exactly when and so my son is extremely affable he's pleasant he's easy to get along with he's not controversial in fact he would prefer to be away from you than with you so you know when he started going to college you know we'd have these conversations you know like tell us as soon as you get there tell us when you where you're going you know monitoring him you know almost like a helicopter parent for a man you know start trying to make sure you know and he's constantly telling me nothing is going to happen to him and I'm I'm willing to bet many of those young men who died Terry Ron's Martin mother probably thought nothing would ever happen to him she probably thought but that wasn't gonna happen you know and the fact that we live in a space where as black parents we're constantly cautioning our children on how to survive in a world where we're almost invisible so when I asked you the question earlier were you a woman or a black woman in your role at MCNC because to me it's hard to break that part because you know those little things that go on behind your voice those subtle comments you know those little little subtle actions that remind you that you are who you are and and it also goes back to the other thing when I asked you you know I mean like so what you said about your charity work is absolutely wonderful but for the women that you know like me how many of us have you remembered and where we have what we've done in the tribute and to me that's what Black Lives Matter means that you are advocating for someone who you know now if the person is a total goofball I get it don't no skin in the game I'm not not put my name on anything but from those in middle and school all the way up to people who have been in a career like me for 40 some years we're still struggling to be accepted heard and not be invisible and so every time I I see something on LinkedIn about you you almost look like a woman you never look like a black woman it's like you're a woman and so obviously your skin color defines you're a black woman you look like a black woman and all that stuff you know I'm sure you know how to code switch and you're talking and all that stuff you know all the things that we have black people know how to do but yet and still Black Lives Matter to someone I don't think we matter to ourselves as much as we matter to white folks because you know you could walk down the street and this is my first walk down the street and speak to a black woman she put her head down and I didn't acknowledge you you know or she'll call someone call me a woman called me the other day she said I've been unemployed since this thing started can you help me get a job I knew I met this woman once I didn't know whether she could do the job or not I picked up the phone and I called somebody she had a job the next day yeah that's an unusual experience that's not the common experience it's not but I will tell you now that hiring people has been probably my number one priority for the last few years black people black people people of color or women or both and so for example I met a young lady on Facebook she was talking there was on one of the triangle black owned businesses sites and she was talking about uh I guess she was asking does anybody have an opportunity out there okay that bold let me send her a note back and uh we went out for coffee the next day and she had a job as my executive assistant within two weeks and she was the absolute best assistant who wants to get into it so for her that was kind of uh getting in the door and then I had people mentoring her across the different technologies so she could get a feel for where she might want to fit then there have been other women that I have hired sometimes they already have jobs but I think they'd be really good um and somewhere else especially if if we were working together as a you know as a leadership team uh and then there are others that I will recommend to other people and I do that a lot I do that quite a bit now my only downside of that is so as the state cio hired a lot of people who came to work with and for me and leaving has been really tough for them and uh and now they're all asking well is there going to be a place for me where you are is there going to be a place for me where you are and and you know it's just reminding people you also have to stand on your own two feet um I had to make a choice that was good for me and my family uh but you're going to be okay and I'm going to be here and so I'm having you know zoom cocktails with them so they can ask me questions and feel supported as we move through this and and stay connected in case another opportunity comes up that I might be able to pick up the phone and say hey so and so they are good people how about we connect her with that and do this and so um I absolutely have used my journey experience expertise and reputation to do that excellent absolutely we have we have about five minutes so I'm going to leave the remainder of the time for you for any comments or thoughts or things we do not cover you wish to share um I think uh you know as stem but we call it people in stem people of color in stem women in stem at some point it's all going to be stem and then if you add the a which is the art part right and then and then it's steam but technology is everywhere it's in everything we do it's in my refrigerator it's in my car it's in everything you do now and I think it's just so pervasive that eventually it is going to open up the world for lots of people to be um what's considered stem because it just goes across everything I see it in farming I see it in of course manufacturing it's always been there that's where I started um I see it in odd places that you wouldn't normally see it and so what I tell people is don't be afraid of your journey because it may take you somewhere you hadn't intended but it's the right place for you to go. Thank you so much for chatting with me.