 On this episode of the podcast and the conversation with Lana Maseku, Lana is a award-winning TV celebrity chef in South Africa and she is just a lovely human being. Lana spoke to me about her humble poor beginnings and how she quickly learned to have a very strong work ethic that allowed her to forge her path away from the poor background and into her love of food and performing art. She spent some time as a ballet dancer, the first black female ballet dancer to have any prominence in South Africa. Her creative process, how she wants to take South African food around the world. You're gonna learn a lot from this interview. I hope you enjoy. Don't forget to subscribe and comment. Thank you. Let me just ask you about the history behind what you came to do because I think being a getting to be a chef as a career is a lot of people's dream. Anyway, I would think. Yeah, you know, there's a difference between being a great cook or being a great baker or a great plumber between that and making a living out of that. There are two completely different skill sets, right? So how come you've been able to translate your ability to cook into making a living? I think humble relentless. To put it in one word. I think I'm extremely relentless and I think I'm extremely goal driven by the things that I want. You know, I just won't stop. You know, unless you say no or you kill me, as long as I, there's, even if it's the smallest opportunity, I'll go ahead and make it happen. You know, and I think also the good thing is that I started off in television and so I'm able to translate food in a television way and not just make it about the food where most chefs will just focus on how beautiful the souffle is or whatever they're making and not necessarily entertain. And at the end of the day, television and the entertainment space is just that entertainment. You know, you on social media for various reasons, but if you know most of the time it's to escape into something. And so if you were just going to make it about the food, I think it would be very difficult. I mean, you look at the likes of like Massimo Batorra who is flamboyant and is a personality in himself. Meaning he's able to translate that and make his food speak to that, you know. And yet you get some chefs, I guess, if I think about is it Madison Madison Park, the number one restaurant in the world? I mean, the chef there, he's like, you know, he's not, you know, watching because you want to be entertained. You're watching because you really want to see the skill of making the most amazing jus and it balancing with the steak and the steak is perfectly cooked. You know, there's no, there's no frills. It's just about the art in itself. And there's, I think there's beauty in that as well because it's at its highest level of excellence, you know, and you get Massimo who also has that kind of excellence, but his pay to splatter it everywhere and it's it's madness, but it it makes sense to somebody at least. So would he or who would be your like, um, role models if you could be mentored by any chef in the world? Have you thought who that might be and why? I wouldn't say mentored, but I the people that I look at are like Chrissy Teigen, uh, so John Legend's wife. Um, I would say Chrissy Teigen, Aisha Curry, uh, Steph Curry's wife. They are commercial properties and they've been able to make their brands commercial. So Chrissy Teigen can be funny and quirky with her mom in the kitchen and then she'll go present the sink battle and do it super, super well. You know, and so I love seeing how um, they've turned their brands into commercial brands. So you buy their product, you she has over a million followers on her cooking page. She's got tons of followers on her normal page. So I think for me, those are the people that I look at and I go, I love the lifestyle diversity of that brand. I never want to be be made to oh, she's just a celebrity chef, even though that's the corp who I am. I think these are the little things are able to feed into the whole thing. So those are the people I look at and I go, that's that's where I'm trying to go. Although they're rumors or people go over, the culinary space doesn't take them seriously. And I'm like, well, you know, you're still buying her books. You're still, you're still buying her cookbook range. You're still watching lip sync battle. You know, she's still having some Netflix. Yeah, everything you do, I think, when I watch you on a TV presentation or TV show feels organic, nothing that you do feels to me contrived or done for camera. It feels like you just, like you said about that person you admire, the risk kind of came from one thing in front of a camera and there's no switch of personality. It feels organic, which I think the people that are the best at what they do in any walk of life have that quality about them that what they do seems to be an organic extension of themselves rather than something bolted on that feels clunky and awkward. Do you think that's true of you? And if so, why? Because what you do to me seems quite complex. I definitely think so. You know, I try to stay true to who I am. I think there are many facets of who I am and very black. I don't want to say multiple personalities because it's not that. I think everything feeds into the ethos of my character. Yeah, you know, and I think in everything that I do, there's a common thread that links everything together. And I want to be genuine. I don't want someone to go, not that I keep what people say, but you know, I don't want people to go, oh my gosh, she's such a cow, you know, like, you won't believe she's she's not as nice as you think she is. And I always say like a rat smells and you can smell it from a mile away. And even if somebody, and there are many people that in front of camera, they can put off this like, you know, beautiful, amazing person. But when you meet them in real life, they really stink. And they're not authentic. And I feel like those things, you'll crack at some point, you know, you'll, you'll, you'll crack and you lose it at the wrong time at the wrong place. So when you're safe, kind of not staying true to who you are, you'll always be within the boundaries of who you are, you know. And so I think, I think it's intentional, because I guess I've been around people that I see personalities and I go, gosh, I don't want to be like that, you know. But yeah, so it's, it's, yeah, it's a journey, but it's an intentional one. When you mentioned the common thread, what is the common thread through what you do? The common thread for me would be, am I being true to myself? Am I working towards the goal that I want? Am I stimulated? Am I inspired? Am I making money? Because sometimes people think that's not important. It is very important. And I am I walking towards success, and what I define as success, whether it would be trying to get into a deal for the mining equipment company where my director, it's completely different to what I do as a TV personality and celebrity chef. But there's something about that particular space that I want the opportunity to prove something to myself, I guess. And I love the fact that it pushes me to think, it forces my brain to think in another way and not in my creative strategy sphere. And so I think that those are definitely the things that I would, I would deem as the common thread. And do you, do you associate the reason why you do what you do with the common thread? Like in everything you've done, because I know you had some time as a ballet dancer, a lot of people won't know that in that expression of your ability and your skill as a person and your love of dance or entertaining, those roots that are serving you now well. Is there a common thread of why you do what you do, not just the common thread of law and authenticity or your values, but do you feel you've been pushed and are still being pushed? You talk about drivenness, are you still being pushed by a sense of a cause or a calling that's within what you do, or bigger than what you do? Is it about nutrition? Is it about aging well? Is it a good relationship with food? Is, you know, what is it that drives you to do what you do because you could be around food and enjoy that in lots of ways besides what you do? I think it's the, it's the goals that I want. It's the things that I want to achieve. It's wanting to be the first South African to be on a global platform when it comes to food. It's about being the face that's known as pushing food, South African food, onto a global space. I think those are the things that I constantly think about. So even on days where I don't feel like actually getting up or writing that proposal, the anxiety of the fact that somebody out there is going to take that very safe idea and get on with it. And because you are procrastinating and never did anything, you're one step away from what you want to achieve. And, you know, people will say, oh, you're successful. And I'm like, I don't really feel like I am just as yet. I feel like I still have a long way to go. And I feel when I, when I am successful, whatever that success is, is to me, I will know it. It'll be like an aha moment. The funniest thing is, I had never emceed in my life, but somehow in my head I thought I had. And so when I emceed, it felt like a natural thing. I had never been in first class on Emirates. And when I, when I, when I did for the first time, I actually felt like I had been here before. I was like, but I was like, but you have honestly never been on a first class flight to, to anywhere. But when I, when I was on the first class flight, those things feel like aha moments, they resonate. And they may seem frivolous to somebody, but to me, they are that step closer to what I want to achieve. So I don't know if I'm answering your question, but Yeah, what I think, what I think you're alluding to, and I think this about you, that when I met you and what I know of you, you're a very confident person as opposed to confident on stage or confident in front of a camera. A lot of people have a stage confidence and off stage, they're not confident, but you strike me as a confident person. And so to me, to bring that confidence, you bring it to the camera with you. You don't, you don't step into it on camera and then lose confidence and a battling self doubt and fear and overthinking, which we all do a little bit after you've been on camera. So that sense of confidence you have coming from your background and from your poor beginnings and so on and so on. Where does that confidence come from? To be honest with you, I think it's, I think it's a, it's my relationship with God. I think it's that inner, it's that inner peace, it's that inner strength. It's, and to be honest, I think everyone does feel like they're not confident at times. I remember having to go on stage for the first time to do my first principal role, which was Don Q and my nerves were killing me and I was literally shaking. And I remember thinking to myself, I was born to do this. This is where I'm supposed to be in this moment, in this time, in this century, in this season. And that kind of gives me that confidence and that peace that I'm able to achieve everything that I, that I want to achieve. And I definitely think that it's in the quiet places where God speaks to you, where sometimes you can't even say to people the things you want to achieve. Some of them I can't even say on this interview because, you know, people be like, are you, are you wanting to do what? And you know that that confidence for you to, to know that it's going to happen is a God confidence. I can't unfortunately deny that. I can't say it's some other spiritual thing that I felt and then it disappeared, but it's that, it's in my know, in my know, and I know, and I know, and I know, and I know it's going to happen. It's a matter of just when it's not an if question. We hope you're enjoying the podcast with Paul Scanlon and Lana Maseko. We wanted to take a moment and let you know about an exclusive offer just for those who listen to this podcast. Paul recently launched his communication masterclass. This is for anyone who has something to say, your message is worth sharing and this course will enable you to be the best you can be. The course has six core topics that Paul dives into with over seven hours of training material. A lot of people think nervousness is a reason not to do something, especially if they get nerves really bad. As you know, when he came to the masterclass, I was so grateful he came to the masterclass and we got to meet there and talk about communication a bit. But one of the things I've felt and struggled with, and I think other communicators do in all fields, including yours, is that people feel if they're extremely nervous, there's a voice that tells you, people that do this well, don't get nervous like this, as if you have a superpower, we don't, but that's not true, right? Definitely. I'm a jump and learn how to swim or fly on your way down. And honey, if you're not going to fly and flap those wings, the floor is beneath you and you can see it. So I'm definitely one of those people. Sometimes it's happened, it's been an advantage. Sometimes it's been a disadvantage. I remember buying a restaurant and thinking I'm a celebrity, everybody will come to the restaurant, I never did proper due diligence, I fought it out, I fought the good fight, but it was a bad decision. It was one of those, I jumped in without looking properly and gazing and kind of seeing what would work out and what wouldn't. I went in there, I unfortunately failed at it, learned a whole lot of stuff. Now in my acquisition of any business opportunity, I'll be a lot more vigilant and a lot more diligent, but I'm that kind of person. I'm definitely jump and we'll see what happens. And generally, I start flying after a while because that's just, I think how I'm, that's just how I am. So how are you with this? Because as we talked a bit earlier, there's the difference between being a great cook or a plumber or whatever and making a living from that. And so on the way to that becoming a living or even a business, I said there's a difference between a great plumber that does well and he's in high demand and a business owner of a plumbing company who knows nothing about plumbing but is a millionaire from a business. One's a business head, one's a technical skill. You have had to discover both and increasingly have to. So as you move more towards where your drive is taking you, how are you managing taking on new skills? Because as you know, getting what you do to a wider audience or to a target audience or to a global reach is not just to do with, you're the best cook in the world because there may be people out there that are way better cooks than you, better speakers than me who will never hear of. So what translates it to becoming that global brand is very complex and you're having to learn that new stuff all the time, right? Yeah, I think you have to be in it. You know, you have to be as much as I spend time on social media, end up discovering things that I never knew were there and then it kind of changes my mind and I start thinking oh maybe I should change the way I'm going to do something or even let's say listening to a podcast you would have and it would take something in me that goes no man, maybe I need to change and do something else. You know, it's chatting to producers in the US and them throwing ideas and me kind of growing into that but you have to be in the thick of things, you know, and in every sense possible whether that thing is the amount of books you read, the amount of YouTube, YouTube inserts you look at, different shows on Netflix, what's current, what's not, what do people enjoy, what can you improve and I'm constantly doing that. I think, you know, I wish I had like almost like a mentor which I'm still going to, I need to still sign up to yours but you know someone that would guide me because sometimes I think I haven't lived enough to kind of have a little bit more foresight in terms of what would happen if I did XYZ and so yes sometimes I've got to do that and another thing that I need to mention is I don't have a team so most of the time, a team yet so most of the time I do everything myself. If I was going to negotiate a deal, that is me doing that. If I was going to reach out to Netflix, that would be me doing that. I feel like sometimes we give people the authority over your career and they'll go oh talent should never chat to clients but if there's nobody who's going to represent you the way that you want to be represented I'm not going to let somebody else mark up my name and say things that don't represent my brand so I put on different hats and it does sometimes it's you know people go oh we don't want to chat to talent but unfortunately there isn't a management team yet in South Africa that I feel like represents me in the best of ways. I've had people that will say things to a client and I'm like oh my wow how could you say that like that's what I want to be known as and so I am I am everything I am and I know in the future I'm gonna have to find a support structure that's really strong but at the moment I think the reason I'm able to do what I'm able to do is that I'm in the sake of everything I know I'm the one that reaches out to people I'm the one that creates the relationship with brands and clients and producers I'm the one that does it and sometimes right now it's working for me you know until I get to a point where I have a kick-ass manager that just kind of has an organic and and a relationship that has a great synergy you know and so it's literally myself on the PA but I'm the one that reaches out because if she reaches out no one's gonna answer that email but if I say it's Rona chances are they're going to reach out they're going to answer the email immediately so because to to scale up what you do to scale up from what you do and it was due to the next level especially into America and around the world with what you do with your brand is going to require a skill sets you don't have so you're the visionary and you're the entrepreneur and you're the gift and the power on the brand behind it and so get to an next level you're going to need to have a CEO and a CEO so on and so on um are you going to struggle to let go are you a are you a control freak um I do you know what I think if I had a strong team I would be able to let go I think it's a trust thing right it's a it's a trust thing to know that they will speak and resonate you in a way that you are and not say things that you know you're like how can you say oh give her a glass of gin and her personality comes to life yeah you know what I mean like for me that if I was in the other seat I'd be like oh is she an alcoholic do you know what I mean um and so for me it's about I think if I had the right people I also want to know everything I want to know every corner every every nook and cranny I want to I want to even be listening to the meeting I want to see people's reaction when you said what you said so maybe that is the control bit in in eternity but I do think when you do have someone who's a strong team you're able to be even better you know and I guess that's what I need to start working towards but like I said you know um perhaps rather having a mentorship a mentor while you look for a great team or while the team hopefully finds you that's that's what you do but um I think I would be able to let go if I knew that I trusted the people and I knew that they had my best interest at heart and they understood the Lorna Masako brand and they breathed it and they lived it and you know they are one with it like I look at I've been watching the becoming um documentary on Netflix with Michelle Obama and her team I mean she's been working with those people for years you know and I must say that I'm not exactly the easiest person to work with sometimes I'm a high D personality and so you know that also comes with its own you know complexities but um yeah it's we're growing that's the most important thing how can you be around food so much and not be overweight fat have a problem with food they say never trust a skinny chef but I think it's a miracle to be a skinny chef I actually went on the scale this morning and I was like oh my gosh these are rocket numbers that's lockdown let's blame that on lockdown I was like I've never been this big in my life this is like this is terrible and I still have like ballet dancer mentality so completely in what I look like what I think I look like and what I actually look like you know so um I was like oh my gosh but you know what I actually don't eat as much as people think you know you see all the food but it doesn't mean I'm eating all that food all the time like do you cook for yourself elaborately or do you eat simple kind of thing um I eat simple but I will crave some like at the moment I'm not in the mood to cook online or do any things I actually couldn't care so I I haven't posted anything or done anything like that because I'm just not I'm just not in that headspace I'm trying to complete other projects that I want to just finish off but I do cook I do cook food that I enjoy eating I won't eat what I feel like but you cook for yourself though I do cook for myself if I start a process generally I would then be like oh man I don't feel like eating it anymore it's the worst feeling in the world because you've started the process you start eating it and you're already tasting it so your mind it's like such a weird thing your mind kind of knows exactly what it's going to taste like before it's done so when it's done you're like yeah well that was a fun experience I don't really feel like that anymore but yeah what do you what do you like when people cook for you oh geez no one's really cooked for me in a while uh no i'm really no cuz they don't no no one's gonna no one's gonna invite the chef for dinner are they no one never cooks for me but I do I always say I cook rustic but I love eating Michelin like that yeah I travel to like London or Paris or Portugal wherever I go I have to these try like one Michelin restaurant like it's it's my thing I have to try one Michelin restaurant and then I have to try something really rustic and dodgy in like a really like weird place but tastes absolutely amazing and people rave about it so um I like to do that but no one's actually I should I guess also I spend a lot of time at home so I'm generally the one having to do stuff for everyone else because everyone else will come here the very little everyone else but you know all five of them will probably come here do you have a favorite food oh I love Asian flavors teriyaki soy sauce ginger mirin mizu ponzu anything with anything that's like umami that's that's my vibe and is there a typical South African food and if so what would you say that was because the world wouldn't really know I've been a South African a lot I'm not sure what I would say typical South African food is well I'm always saying that South African food is finding its voice in the global space I mean there's um you know traditionally people have buffed and buruvus and milk tarts and marvel pudding and that kind of thing although in the world I don't think there's any other country that has buff which is is a typical South African it's maize ground up and it's like pasty and you have that with like I guess a gravy of sorts or relish called chakalaka which is like beans and carrots and tomatoes and generally that's a staple in most homes but yeah I think you know that is my goal to to actually figure not figure out but to really pin it you know and so that no one would have to ask me that question for example way if you think about Mexican food you know tacos even though Mexican food is so vast beyond tacos and burritos and that's what people think Mexican food is just ceviche and and that kind of thing so um definitely my my my goal in life is to put South African food on that map to have people go oh you know I'm gonna try that you know it's a cold chakalaka whatever they're saying you know and you must know that that's South African like you go to West Africa you know there's a goosey and jollof rice you know you go to London and you know it's it's peas a mash and and bang bang is a mash you know so my goal or my my dream is to be that and to showcase South African food in a way that it can resonate with people and they would they would love it I'm eating chakalaka just because it's called chakalaka it's kind of I gotta have some of that get me some chakalaka yeah what is your biggest challenge right now Lorne's what you up to in terms of what's coming next what is stretching you what are you like looking forward to but scared of at the same time kind of thing um at the moment I'm really thinking how do we create and how do we expand the Lorna Maseko brand beyond what it is now and what does that look like um and you know I'm I'm never I'm never content with anything I always just want to achieve more and more and more and and I think it's more about okay how do we shoot a show you might not have brands wanting to put money down on stuff but maybe it's about you investing into your own brand and and looking at different strategies of getting your brand out there um it's about monetizing the brand beyond just cookbooks um it's looking beyond just that you know we have classics how the afghan brands like mrs bowls which is a chutney um and it's about why you know why don't we look at other things like that it's it's it's cookware ranges it's it's you know how do we expand the Lorna Maseko brand beyond the commercial tv and books and that's that's where my my brain is thinking and finding the correct distribution partners so that you are you know able I'm able to reach a bigger a bigger a bigger scale a bigger number of people so it's not just in South Africa just in Africa but I'm able to really just expand beyond beyond Africa did you say mrs bowls yeah I know is that a branding name or a real name you know no it's a real name it's mrs bowls is a chutney and it's been around for years it's it's like a classic south african yeah it's been around I mean I have probably like three bottles in my house and it's really good with like shoes or as a dip or as a marinate and it's really it's a chutney you know and so wow it's mrs bowl's chakalaka you guys are coloring the market on brand language that's for sure you know so um I think it's about creating next generation branding and thinking you know beyond just oh that's what we're used to because I think people are looking for different things and people are becoming more patriotic of their countries and right of who they are as nations and so yeah as opposed to looking out and and just celebrating people outside why not you know do stuff that will be welcomed by South Africans but also as spark and interest globally and I think South Africa is one of those countries where it's kind of it feels like it's it's in the middle you know people want to know more but there's not enough coming out you know we've just had Trevor who's a phenomenal comedian and host and he's doing amazing things but it shouldn't I don't think the gift is just for one person I don't think God says oh well Trevor is from the bucket of 83 so in this bucket of 83 he's the only person that's going to be successful you know I don't think that's how it works I think um the people that that have the successes because they chose to be successful I think one of the biggest things that I've realized during this quarantine time is that everything is a choice to get up in the morning and it's a bigger choice now because you don't have it's not like the meeting is you know and santa and then I've got to drive out or everything's a choice to get up in the morning as a choice to love people it's a choice it's not a feeling it's not it's not it's not cookies and cream it's none of that and I think the people that are successful made a choice to be successful and I think that's one thing I've definitely realized during this time along with the fact that your mind is the most powerful thing ever you can literally flip it by that decision you know and and not to go into you know negative holes of of feeling I also hate victims but like feeling victimized and also you know sorry for yourself um and that kind of thing so um it's the the decision is definitely to expand are you hopeful about the future for South Africa because every time I've been there I have always felt the progress has been so slow since the abolition of apartheid in terms of the infrastructure changing um equality of opportunity money getting down to grassroots and so on and so on um coming in there as an outside trader if you like has often been very difficult for me you know dealing with international currency exchange rates dealing with the business side of South Africa as you know are you hopeful I think it's changing you have to be hopeful you know you see how things are but you have to be hopeful that's all you have even if it's like a glimpse of optimism like one percent like I'm one person to hold on to that um you know I guess Pastor Andre always says there's the world economy and then there's the word of God you know and for me I you know the people in the midst of of crisis and of things going completely wrong that still become successful you know and I always ask myself how did they become successful and so um it takes Lorna pushing it and and doing the the relentless stuff that feels like she's completely crazy that's going to allow the next person to just just close up the gap a little bit more you know um and you know I I'm a firm believer of that and so for me I'm always like when there's chaos everywhere I'm just like that's that's not what God said about my life you know so um and I keep that optimism and I think in terms of the country as a whole I think it's definitely it's about the people that have the opportunity to close the gap to try and it might be just it might not even be in our lifetime or my kid's lifetime but it's just about slowly closing that gap and I don't think you can wait on governments I think you it's you it's individuals it's it's a small stuff that you do that allows you to to then close that gap um on a might be a small scale might be a big scale you know it's it's perhaps God willing and God blesses me in the way that I would like is then perhaps paying for my helper's kids you know for school and they having a better future you know it's I feel like that's that's how it would change personally I could be wrong I'm not a politician so I don't know where do you see yourself in the next few years Lorna what do you want to be doing five years time do you think that far ahead 10 years time and what I want my life to look like by then um definitely I think I would absolutely love to have a family have little kids running around although even though I'm like oh my career but unfortunately at my age the eggs are ticking so that's that but definitely a family definitely a global brand definitely merchandising of all the stuff that I do and I think it I think your dreams and your goals change you know that there's a common vision but it adjusts itself you know maybe I'll have a kids clothing line or like kids cooking way rage or whatever it is but um but definitely on a global scale and maybe an Emmy who knows I said there you go why not yes how can I how can our listeners find you Lorna um definitely they can look up for me on Twitter which is at which is at launch lorns underscore maseko which is m a s e k o on instagram it's Lorna maseko for the fabulous stuff and then for all the food it's celebrate with Lorna maseko and there's also a facebook page called Lorna maseko and everything Lorna maseko I think what you do is fantastic and I think you are a fantastic person I really appreciate the time with me on this podcast and wish you so much joy and fulfillment and prosperity in everything you are doing because I tell you we need voices like yours in South Africa to come out of South Africa as you say to put that beautiful country on the map in lots of other ways besides what it's been known for in the past I think is genius what you're doing and I think you're a genius too appreciate your time thank you so much thank you we hope you enjoyed this interview with Paul Scanlon and Lorna maseko we wanted to remind you about the 20% offer off of his communication masterclass course until the end of June you can find out more information about that in the show notes please do subscribe share and review this podcast channel thank you