 Okay, so we're ready for our third and final session of day one of our 10 of Taiwan Studies Summer School. I'm delighted to welcome back Professor Sun Jia-Sui from our third speaker from Dong Hua University. So I think welcome back because she spoke, so I've seen, last quote, so I've seen 2004. When our Taiwan set was just starting to get developed, it was the year I graduated, actually, and the first year I was working at SOAS. And then we met again the next year. So Professor Sun, in 2005 she'd already joined Dong Hua University after completing her PhD at the University of Birmingham. And she was at the second EATS conference in March, I think, of 2005 at Bochum University. So on going to Dong Hua, like quite a few scholars, she changed her research direction to move into Indigenous studies. And that's going to be the topic of her first of two talks. In today's session she's going to look at gender and Indigenous TV. We've had talks on Indigenous TV two years ago, I think, but not from a kind of gender angle. So I'm really delighted that you agreed to come back. So let's give Jia-Sui a very big SOAS welcome home. Thank you very much for your invitation. I'm Professor Jia-Sui Sun, and I actually did the research about globalization in creative industry before. But today I'm going to present the gender issues about Indigenous television news. And for quite a reason we need to address this issue here. Actually I did a similar talk in Taiwan a few months ago, and a lot of questions raised in that talk, because in recent years there are a lot of gender issues happening in the tribe in Taiwan. So we need to see how most news and issues have been represented in the Indigenous news. And does it show something different with the mainstream news? And what is gender taboo? And what is culture translation? It exists in the process. Taiwan right now has 16 different ethnic groups. So what happens to news is sometimes one channel cannot cover all the news from one Indigenous tribe because there are not enough news to support a channel for the news. Therefore, within those 13 different tribes, sometimes news need to be translated from one channel to another one. But during the process it's not only the translation of the language, it's also the translation of culture. So anchor and reporter become the connection and bridge to bridge different culture and society within the Indigenous group. But there are a lot of taboo from different tribes that will affect those influence. I'm going to give different example about what reporter encounter in the context of different tribes. And I can give you first example. It's about the fishing, fried fishing festival from Lanyu. Does anyone join the festival before? And do you see any movie and see all those frying fish? And you can imagine what real image in the tribe. It actually attracts a lot of tourists from all over the world to the tribe to see how it happened. But if you are female, sometimes you couldn't enjoy it to see the ceremony. For one reason, first of all they are taboo. People believe, if you female touch the boat, or join the ceremony, when man goes out, the boat will get some disease. What do you think about that? For perspective of reporter, it will make difference for female reporter and male reporter when they need to report news. How female reporter went to the festival and trying to film it and interview people, but could not enter a cultural space and making the news. That become the first question for me to try to explore what happened here. And in quite ways, it's not only a news problem, it also related with many issues right now exist in the tribe. Because many taboo is from very go through history and from legend and it just you know, people believe it. But right now in the real society, many young people also go to others, like go to the main island, so when they go back to the tribe, sometimes they feel they also want to join the ceremony, or particular loss of female young people. But they couldn't enjoy it because traditionally they are not allowed. So there are a lot of change, not only the representation of culture, media also get involved with all flows changing process of the indigenous society. And also there are another issue, it's also about female role in the, in general indigenous society. For example right now a lot of political figures, they are female in Taiwan. So in high society, they can be leader of a political agenda, and they have their voices and hear by the people. But when they go back to the tribe, because traditionally they are special area only for men to get in. They are not allowed to participate in the public sphere. Of course there are many women trying to change this situation. But there are a lot of pressure. Many people tell them because traditionally it's not allowed. If you do it and you need to kind of like against the traditional way. And they are also very, many issues need to be care. It's not only it's equal or not. Because a lot of traditions actually change in the modern society. So the cultural reservation become an important issue. So even for female figures, sometimes they feel they don't want to change it. Because they kind of trade their own culture. Even it may be damaged the female right. But if they think from the ethnic concept, they still try to preserve it. So here we actually see one main problem. It's when gender issues encounter with ethnic issues. In many cases, gender issues will be forgotten. And people will just keep the traditional way. But many young people they are not happy with that. Because for the education system they are special way in different tribes. They can have a special area, cultural space. They train generation by generation. What is traditional life of indigenous young people's life? But for women, they do not have such kind of cultural space. Because from first beginning they are not allowed to get in. So for example from Amis tribe, the young generation actually they are thinking about to form another system. Because it's too hard for them to get into the original system. They need to bear the responsibility. They become the person to break the traditional way. And a lot of resistance in the tribe, especially from the elder women. So sometimes they are trying to think about they just form a new one. So they can also have their education system to learn the traditional way of life. And I think that's what happened in the different tribes of indigenous society in Taiwan. So right now I'm going to give different examples from different tribes to show you what happened here and then what are the issues raised from those situations. So I'm going to tell you more about those two different fields. The first one is about frying fish. And do you notice about in the film it mentioned about fish for different for men, for women, for children. So it's just fit with ecosystem. Because different nutrition will fit with different gender and children. And I think in the Da Wu they believe the children need nutrition and the pregnant women need more nutrition. So they have more special fish for them. And for the elder people sometimes it's just fish. They are not that popular. So that's why we emphasize about indigenous knowledge. Because as a reporter you got to understand how people of indigenous knowledge think about. And then you can report the proper way and also become a bridge to convey all those traditional knowledge to the audience from different ethnic groups. And also not only the fish do you notice about it talking about the container. That's the play for men. Play for women. Because if the tourists go into the tribe and they are not knowing all those cultural knowledge they may offend people in a way they don't know. They allow cultural space for example like female just cannot touch the boat. Even couldn't enter the cultural space. Do you know why? When we think about the taboo, I think certain people really think about what is the reason for the taboo and how does it begin. And the people who try always tell us it's because they are trying to protect women. Yeah. Because it's kind of I know I see everybody's face but that's what happens when I first talk to them. And that's why sometimes we need to meet the reporter become an interpreter and to help us to understand what happened there and why. And is it possible to change or when the people in the tribe they are going to change they may be under pressure because it's just not tradition if they are trying to go into a cultural space. And I'm going to give some other example and tell you what happened later about when tourists go into the tribe. There are also some change but a lot of debating about that. But that's the first thing I want to talk to you about the fish, the frying fish and the boat festival. And for the second one, the second field is from Saisha. And that's also a very famous festival called Bastai. And I think everybody hear the ring. When the button touches the bell it will help some. What is that for? Because it's from a story. How does this festival begins? Because some people actually had a sexual harassment of the women in the Saisha tribe. So the men just killed them. And then after that there are some disaster happening in the tribe. So it's kind of inviting, it's searching for peace, inviting all the lost evil come back to the tribe and play with them. So those rings and bells actually is inviting evil to play with them together and as they are not killed they need to go to the tribe anymore. And every second year they have this kind of festival. And the men family in the tribe, they need to organize and do everything for the festival. So at the beginning they are not, actually they are not very happy to inviting all those tourists going to the tribe. This is one of the tribes that kind of insist the traditional way because they feel that the festival communicate with God or with evil. They are not doing it for tourists. So I think a lot of indigenous tribes change a lot because they are trying to fit in with all the tourists' needs. But this tribe, they kind of insist they want to keep the original way. But when the people more and more come into the tribe and they don't know all those indigenous knowledge in many ways, they will offend people but they don't know. If you bring the camera, go in to try to film it. Even with camera, I need to bind with a special plan. It's kind of, the plan, kind of protection. Just put the evil away. Not only protection, people also protection your camera. So yeah, when you first go into a tribe, you need to bring your camera to a special area. And they will tie it with it and then you can go into there and then film it. And you also hear the singing of the film. They are also special taboo for the song. They are only those people's time. People can practice those songs. If you practice in other time, people believe the evil goes to you and then people will get it. So there are quite a lot of taboo exists in different tribes. And as a reporter, you need to explain it to the audience. So no matter you are a tourist or you want people going into the tribe, you know how to respect the traditional way. And then you did not do something that is not proper to make the people feel angry with that. So I think that's part of the reason. All of us are reporters and need to become a bridge when reporting all of those news. They need to talk about what is the gender issues and what is the cultural space of gender and who is the place you can go and who is the place you cannot go. Because not only female, they are also placed, male cannot go. Or they are also placed, female cannot go. So sometimes when you need to assign some journalist to reporting the news, you need to distinguish male and female. Because for some reason if you go there and then you cannot go into a cultural space and then you couldn't get a film. So there are a lot of organizations about this yet. I think people probably didn't see any indigenous before. So at the beginning I'm showing some photos about those people I do interviews with. And this is different tribe of the indigenous people. And they report the news, for example. This is from Amis. And this is one of the sections, inviting elder people to say something. Sometimes they introduce some indigenous culture and sometimes kind of encourage young people to speak their own language in one section of the news. And actually many people if they die, elder people if they die, no one knows how to speak in that tribe of the language in that tribe. Because young people, right now the reporter is about 50 years old. But those people that really know the language is about 70 or 80 years old. And for a younger generation like my student, sometimes they are making the indigenous but with high language, not their own language. Because even you know how to speak English, it's different requirement when you need to be a reporter or anchor on the stage. Unless what happens for a younger generation. And for some elder people about 70 or 80 years old, in the early stage they do come to the indigenous television news to report news. But later it's too overland. Every week come from the mountain, go through about 5 hours time to have news to feel about half hour time and then go back to the tribe. And following the indigenous television news, it also costs too much for transportation fee to invite someone to reporting the news. But on the other hand, those language may no longer exist if they didn't feel it at this time. That's what happened. And this is a thai-ya. And this is another elder people. And this is from Benun. And you can see sometimes they wear like western style dress to report. But sometimes it's traditional one. Because I think they are trying to figure out what audience are so different. Different generation, different ones. So they are trying to test which one people like the most. And this is Taguco. You can see their traditional architecture and their life special way. Like the white color one. You can see this. This is a lot of eyes from the pattern. The first speaker is from this tribe. The first speaker this morning. And this is Benun. And this is Gamalan. And you can see sometimes they use like the spelling of a woman. But sometimes it's hand, character. And they are also debating. Because if you use this language, most of the Taiwanese people can understand. Not only they couldn't listen. Even they see it, they also couldn't understand it. But they keep original condensation of the indigenous world. So some linguists feel like it's a proper way to use this language. But if you need wider audience to understand the news, you need to put a hand subtitle on the bottom of it. And this is Rukai. And you can see this one. They are all the tribe in the mountains. So you can see the background. You see it. And this is Zouzu. If someone know Alishan, this is the mountain. Mountain tribe too. And for elder people sometimes, for example, this is a priest say Zou language. Like inviting young people to speak their own language. And this is Satilada. And you can see because they are trying to put all of those cultural images in one page. So you can see they have this one. They have the dress. They have the architecture. And actually when it's moving, it's fire just keep moving on the screen. So sometimes you can see people really eager to keep preserving their culture and so trying to put everything in the news. But sometimes it's too much. So they also need to adjust it. This is also Saisha. This is the tribe from the bell you just saw. And this is the flying fish tribe from Bali. Okay, so this is the people I interviewed. So I will tell you more story about them. Okay, this is the flying fish one. So in this one, I hear people are curious about what is this for. And when the bell rings, that means inviting the evil base with them. So it's like kind of trying to be a peaceful way with the people they are inviting before. So that's important every year to inviting people to do that. And this is from Taiwan, I think many people like it. And traditionally different family from different class, they own the different base. It's like one generation to another generation. But right now, a lot of people also kind of imitate it. So the culture production sometimes lost the original meaning. Because it used to be only one family with one. And I show this because I want to tell you one story about Taiwan indigenous stories that when they trying to make news about this one, she encountered some problem. First of all, she need to borrow it to film it. The people in the tribe is your leader class. So the person on the base actually tell her, you are not allowed to see it. Because you do not belong to the same class. So she need to bring her husband. Her husband also belong to the leader class of the tribe and it's male. Only when her husband appear and then she is allowed to film it for audience. And it's very strict in the tribe because they feel it's kind of representation of the class and representation of the status. So not everyone can see special things. And sometimes they also hesitate to show it in front of all of the audience. That means everybody can see it. And it's not only a story. It's talking about how the problem of a journalist encounter in terms of gender, in terms of class, during the interview process, even you want to see this one, you need to be identified as a man or a female journalist before you can film this one. And that's what happened in Taiwan tribe. And there are also, you can also see if you are a female reporter, if you went to Lanyu and trying to report news about frying fish, you are not allowed to go near the boat. You are not allowed to go into the cultural space of ceremony. And in one way, you can make, you can make the news. You need to cope with another male reporter or film photographer and then you need to do it together. And in many ways, the representation of the film will show the angle from male perspective, not female one. That's why the first question I'm trying to raise here for the research is, we need to pay attention about the gender inequality representation in the Indigenous film and news. In many ways, you couldn't see the female in the film, even they are doing the same thing with women. And in many cases, they are on the background, not in the front. But sometimes they are doing many, many things, but they are not paying attention in the whole ceremony. For example, in the Taiwan, this one, in the final part of the ceremony, you will see a very, it's like a sticky rice, but it may less. It's very big from here to here. Women in the tribe spend a lot of time making it because in the final part, they want to share with all of the people who participate with that. But we still don't see the news reporting how they make it. But they are also doing a lot of things in the tribe but they cannot be seen. And so this talk, trying to explore the gender issues present in Indigenous television news in Taiwan, the representation of gender in Indigenous media is involved with gender norms, taboo, and cultural relation in different ethnic groups and different Indigenous society. In the news production process, gender issues influence Indigenous anchor and reporters. In interview and broadcasting perspective, furthermore, gender boughs affect the ethnic images produced and presented in Indigenous news. So that's the first part I'm trying to raise here to see how gender has been represented in the news. And this research also carries out in order to understand what Indigenous news professional encounter when considering gender cultural space in the news production process and what gender issues are involved in Indigenous media. So that's part of the reason I'm showing this film. Therefore, we need to know what is Indigenous knowledge and Indigenous gender issues in the news production process. For example, if you go to a specific tribe, the journalists need to be trained to know where is the cultural space they can get in and where is not. And also, the news needs to broadcast and tell the audience or participants, people participating in the events, including the tourists, where is the space for men, where is the space for women. If you did not follow it, sometimes people will get angry with the people from outside. And also, ethics in the news production process. For example, some journalists, they are trying to making the news so sometimes they think they have privilege to go into those cultural space. And some tribe is open for that. But some tribes are very angry with all of those people doing that because a lot of tradition has been changed if everyone just uses a special title and they want to get into a cultural space and they are no longer in a traditional way. And gender cultural translation indigenous knowledge and audience. And I will mention about this later because there are a lot of cultural translation from one tribe to another tribe. They have no similar words, so you don't know how to say it. I give one example. A lot of words if they related with sex and then people couldn't say it in public. But if you need to report news about breast cancer, but we now mention breast, how can you report it? And that's what happened to the reporter because they need to see a very complicated way to express that. And sometimes they use, for example, in one tribe they use a fig, fig to represent women's breast. So you need to use a very indirect way to explain to the public. In many news you couldn't talk about rape or sexual action, even a condom. A lot of words you just couldn't use it. But sometimes layer news is for medical use because you need to inform them so people know how to prevent some young generation get pregnant too early or for the health reason they need to do some protection. And it's all become very difficult. First of all, in a tribe they don't have medical words. People are more like, they have a special way, they are all traditional way for medicine, not from a western society. So they don't have such kind of words at all. So how do you report it? But we don't mention that. So sometimes you need to tell a story. The whole news process becomes like a story carry. Yeah! And you can imagine it becomes very long. And then news need to be short. And then sometimes when the news go to the next page the subtitles still in the previous one. And that's what happens. And it's kind of, I think the anchor is not easy at all. It's like going to exam every day because you need to file a problem word to say something. It's like this at all. Or you know a word but you couldn't say it in front of the public. Because I remember this one news, like that's the male anchor but he feel it's very difficult for him to reporting the news. Actually he is trying to like ask the young people in the tribe to use condom to prevent too many young people get pregnant. But there's a word in the tribe but he couldn't say it. So he say it in a very uncertain way. So for elder people they feel it's impossible you don't know the word so you don't know how to say it. And for the young generation they feel it's not clear at all. Can you say it clearly? So kind of both different generation are not all not happy with him when he reporting the news. And then he is male. You can think about if that's a female reporter this will even worse because they feel it's not proper or impolite to say it in front of the public. Sometimes they say it and the elder people will tell those anchor it's not right at all. That's impolite. And that's not a proper way. So they are not happy with the news. But actually there's no such kind of word in the tribe at all. Or they know the words but they could not say it. It all cause a lot of difficulty when those like medical news or they have things related with like sexual words. And you will hear a lot of story in the indigenous news because that's just not a traditional way to report it. So you can see the cultural space not only exists in the real world it also exists in the reporting newsroom. They encounter problems every day. So let's find out about the genealogy and cultural translation. I'll just give one example about so let's find people need to know indigenous knowledge and why they are doing it and for quite a reason they use it this way. Or they need to just have some modern words to start to think about what is the new word they can use in the newsroom. Because right now many tribes from different countries they encounter the same problem. They don't have a computer this way. So they use kind of like Japanese to Japanese character to talk about the computer. Yeah. Yeah, just because sometimes in the reporting process you can hear different language in one sentence. Because elderly people, Taiwan used to be occupied by Japan so some elderly people they only know Japanese language. So for certain words they use Japanese word to say it. And then right now I have modern concept. There are many words. For example, like football. I don't know how indigenous news reporting news for England. Football. Football, yeah. Because they don't have football in the tribe but you need to reporting the news. Or sometimes you need to report the global in a more global context and then you know what to connect with it. So sometimes the gender issue and gender concept are different. So all of these the reporter in the indigenous news need to think about one way to convey the knowledge and also give explanation with that. So that's why I feel the England reporter as a bridge to connect different culture and different society. They are not only reporting the news they need to build a connection and explain it. And so interview was conducted with different indigenous ethnic news reporting in indigenous television news and I just show you who they are. So indigenous anchor and cultural translator among different culture. So when they making the news sometimes they need to not only translate language they need to introduce the indigenous knowledge behind that. So people can understand what's going on and why the gender issue exists. And for a reason people need to understand it and in Huawei you need to cope with that. And also it provides different cultural background of ethnic group and explain gender issues to the audience. For example if you go to flying fish but you couldn't come close to a boat the tourists need to know why not only men can be there and male cannot. Female cannot and you need to find a way if they don't want to follow it how can you deal with it. So there are a lot of things people need to need to know before they go and media become one bridge before the special festival they need to know how to what is a cultural translation when they go into a tribe and they research also interview anchors and reporters of different ethnic group to understand the difficulty which a journalist encounter and a strategy to explain gender issues and relating news events. For example they are using a story to let you know what's going on or they need to have a special like a column to tell you why the gender issues is you need to follow in this trend. And then for a media cultural society perspective to explain how gender factors influence indigenous anchors to report the news so as to produce the news with more gender awareness. And the language and cultural translation I just explained and making news with Julie from different ethnic group so that means from one group to another the gender issues are different. So when you translate the news you also need to translate the culture you also need to help people to understand from this culture to that culture if they are different and why you need to follow it and sometimes may disagree with that but news also provides a public space for people to debate about that. That's one reason I just mentioned at the beginning about young people in the Amis tribe. They are trying to have their own like age system. Age system is actually young people from different age they have a special way to train different age people with traditional way but right now it's only for male not for female. So they are trying to also they have their own system so they can also learn the traditional way in the tribe. Reporter anchors produce from different ethnic group and they are all involved with culture translation so not only inside newsroom also need to target the audience and keep them similar training. Okay so missing image of women in the indigenous media so I think the reporter need to report more for the women even they couldn't show in the sermon but they do a lot of things behind. So I think the reporter need to be trained not only reporting the men in the traction of the news also need to report all those women from different perspective and see how they also participant in all of the preparation process and then there are also some issues for example the younger generation they have different perspective to the tribe and different anticipation with that I think that's also very good for to be the main issue for the news reporting them because they are shipped in two different society for example like those political figures they are in high position in the high society but when they went back to their own tribe they couldn't participant in the public sphere also right now the chairman of the indigenous people television news also female but when they went back to the tribe sometimes she also couldn't join the public sphere but when I asked them they always tell me you are not in the tribe you don't know the potential of that so for the people inside it's even harder for the people outside try to tackle those problem because they want to they don't want to black the relationship of the human relationship in the tribe if they insist to do something it's not traditional sometimes they will be blamed for all of the people so that's not easy at all but I think the media provides one kind of public sphere for people to debate about the gender issues and also new media provides another way for the people to voice their situation because in the tribe they didn't say it but in the new media in the outside world they can just show you all of those issues as they want so sometimes it becomes different perspective to bring the different point of view back to the tribe and for the younger generation they can be enlightened and make further change for the society the festival they are all the festival a lot of female cannot participate for example like the flying fish you can see and the year festival that's from Phu Nong they shoot the pigs here instead of players and they are a lot like the bull female also couldn't touch it because they believe female touch the hunting material and then they couldn't catch any animal yeah and it's sea festival that's the tribe I just mentioned about and so men catch use attention but how about women they are also doing a lot of things but they are not in the news and sometimes they are traditional taboo and gender known and how to translation about who is there so they are voices for indigenous women they also sometimes they use new media to become a channel to show their opinion and female image and transformation of indigenous society it's not only the transformation image I think it also change the social status of image of indigenous society if new media can provide different perspective not only the traditional one here is another example the cooking program for the indigenous food but the presenter is a male so quite often you can see those active male presenter in front of the just explain all of those food and then the female is in the background just cooking so it's not a very good representation too even in the like cooking program so it's like traditional gender role and stereotype representation quite often appear in such kind of no matter news or program I think this question need to be raised and to more emphasize on all of those women they are also doing like keeping the traditional way a representation of indigenous women in the indigenous Caribbean news often show their traditional image sing dancing and cooking but sometimes it's still meaningful for example like total women is like waiting in a traditional way and not a lot of people know how to wave it so when you keep the film you also keep the tradition and Saishan women dancing the traditional festival that's the one you just see you see the bell but the bell actually the ring actually did not have too many people know how to make it so some family if there are some family with that no one knows how to fix it so that's why people need to feel it now or to as those people they know how to how to make it to teach someone so they can it can kind of be fixed for some years from now although it shows how indigenous women convey cultural translation however indigenous media presents different image of indigenous women in the changing culture and society therefore indigenous media can facilitate development of indigenous culture and society these taboo and gender issues let's the Amis and the Bune the cases I just show you so that's why in many cases the reporter also need to be careful with that if you touch all those hunting equipment people will get angry with that and if later they couldn't catch any animal female can be blamed for the reason and if the frying fish festival if someone got some disease in the sea but before some female touches you can you can imagine she will become the reason for some disaster so that's why a lot of the concept probably will be changed but right now still in the debating process so it's changing society and changing rules and gender issues and gender taboo need to be understood in many cases so the research question is about how can indigenous that become mediator do cultural translation and transmit gender issues how can indigenous knowledge and indigenous taboo influence the production of indigenous TV news the theory many mention who translate what for whom translated when and where how to translate, why translate so from indigenous news you need to understand who is your audience for what reason you translate that and for you need to do a translation for what reason you are doing it so from production process to reception process you need to know all those gender issues so translation about both language and cultural context indigenous anchors as mediator media indigenous cultural society to audience from different ethnic group and articulate gender issues and how gender language has been represented in the indigenous news that's one of the focus my research trying to raise here translation of gender issues it's gender and social connection that's why the lowest female non-medical education or lowest people in high social status they are still under lowest pressure because they don't want to break the social connection so sometimes they need to follow although they have question with that so media in some ways become a public sphere kind of raise over those issues for discussion and social practice and gender issues it's not only about the news it also about no it also link with the social status with women when I making similar talk in Taipei many NGO group they are assist many women they they experience many bad experience in the tribe and when they try to assist them they found that's a main problem with that because you need to go into the indigenous system knowing their knowledge sometimes the people coming from outside is hard to help because the tribe will say this is not following the traditional way so women are used to be treated in that way so it's hard to make the change let's why media become another important channel to raise the question so the people from outside when they trying to provide the help they know the knowledge and they know what they care about and people can find a way to provide the help tribe women will need it so this communication action and gender issues those issues also need to be raised in the news and the program for discussion indigenous knowledge and cultural translation so it's not only translated culture is also translated culture and articulate indigenous knowledge it's connection between different cultural context and search for cultural world and cultural context so people from outside need to go into the indigenous knowledge system to understand what they think about before doing anything and the gender issue sometimes probably different from outside but sometimes need to be understand before you are trying to change it the problem encounter is sometimes it's hard to find similar gender language among different indigenous language and anchors explain gender language and concept everybody explain in different way so sometimes the same rules can be very different they need to find different words to say the same thing but with their own interpretation and that's time limitation and I just mention this this is the medical part I just mention about so there are difficulties of referring to breast cancer without using the word breast so everybody just use different way to explain it and you still need to see clearly so people can understand why you are trying to address in your news and this is only one example there are also many other examples and there are words you couldn't see in public so you need to use the words in a very uncertain way and sometimes people just couldn't catch it there are many scientific words who couldn't find it in the indigenous language and you need to report it so sometimes you need to invent new words to tell the audience I give another example from Canada there is a film called Angry Nuke so this film actually is filmed by female director from Canada and the main thing is about the skin of the seal because we eat chicken we eat beef no one blame us but in nuke when they kill a seal use their skin a lot of animal protection organization feel it's very old but from the female female director perspective she just want to tell the world that's the way how in nuke people live for thousand years there is no right to tell them not to kill seal and use their skin to make other different kind of product because they actually allow them but it's not allow people from in nuke tribe to produce like a scrolls or something but if the commercial system has been brought down many people just do it for living they know other ways so when people did not kill a seal actually in some ways they kill some of the people from the tribe actually couldn't survive that's the way they make for living and that's one of the example how Canadian female reporter use media to voices their indigenous knowledge and their situation in the tribe and I think some people indigenous media in Taiwan can also draw some kind of attention to other people what is indigenous knowledge and what do they think about because if seen from from different perspective probably it's not always a bias to thinking about other people's culture and other people's society we also need to respect them probably the gender situation the ethnic situation are different but we still need to try to understand first so that's how media put into cultural and social context ok so let's so media help to represent indigenous viewpoint they change the bias to indigenous people and media also is a weapon to come from with understanding and fight for justice this is how new media communicate in language having gender awareness and social network that's how the Canadian film trying to address the issue to the audience indigenous cultural reservation and cross borders and they are also different use when cultural cross border, language cross border social context cross border we need to go into the indigenous knowledge system to understand what's going on there in conclusion, report gender in cultural context and general responding to social change in modern society and also help audience to understand gender taboo media as a platform to form new social network and support system and it's important to empower women through media the news also need to emphasize the viewpoint from indigenous women and voices for indigenous women add new words to changing society and do a cultural translation for gender so this research reveals with gender factors influence news production in different ethnic groups it identifies key gender issues and also provides suggestions to facilitate indigenous news production they embrace both gender awareness and multicultural gender image and finally, medical news may change to become socially acceptable in travel area by taking into account different gender and cultural views understand gender taboo but find ways to address important gender issues okay, that's my final remark okay, that was fascinating we've had talks recently on indigenous media but we haven't really covered much when it comes to gender issues it's just something that's been occasionally come up in discussion but not this kind of degree of focus we often tend to often our students who look at gender in Taiwan one of the things that they one of the conclusions they often get is that Taiwan is actually quite a an exciting case because of the particularly when they do the comparison with South Korea or Japan but it sounds like from this angle the picture looks quite quite different so one of the questions that I asked and you kind of touched upon at one point was how does Taiwan's feminist movement deal with this issue you briefly mentioned activists who try and work with victims but generally how does Taiwan's maybe Taipei based feminist movement deal with indigenous communities you can understand the female is actually under pressure but not only the people we see the we see the tribe, people from outside if we something tackle the gender issues sometimes people will they still try to keep traditional way so my research actually is not to encourage people to again to tackle the gender issues and trying to do something but I'm trying to raise the issue to let the people in the tribe can discuss by themselves because for the people from outside particularly from outside people if you raise something and then question with that sometimes people will you don't understand the indigenous language or you are trying to encourage people in the female people in the tribe to do something traditional so that's why I need to be careful for my research actually one scholar in Taiwan she used to tell you need to do further of this research because they also want to take over those gender issues but they are the people from inside they couldn't do it because they couldn't lose connection with their family and if they are trying to raise those issues, they are trying to make some change sometimes they will be brain for all of the people in the tribe particularly male elder people so indigenous TV news took I was thinking about the way it's managed is that also very patriarchal if I say yes and that means I kind of identify them as that but what I believe is some taboo originality as they say they try to protect women but I know when the society becomes like this this reason cannot many people will not be happy with this kind of reason so some people they want to change but they need to change in a very subtle way or they will become a target to under pressure for all of the people so if the reporting is handled badly from it then what happens is the concern that politicians or elders will complain because they will tell off those young female generation because they are trying to change the tradition of the tribe and they don't think that's right particularly right now everything in the tribe is kind of missing and they are trying to when they are trying to preserve preserve the culture that also means they need to preserve the tradition and during the issue it's part of the tradition so one of the kind of topics that I was curious about was how does indigenous TV deal with news about marriage equality but that's okay we've got a pretty controversial issue and indigenous TV can't avoid that topic marriage equality different news just report it from different perspectives some actually in a positive way because quite a lot of people actually they need support from this perspective and I think for younger generation it's quite okay it's also some religious reasons because a lot of Catholic are indigenous people so not only the pressure from like the leader from the tribe they are also religious reason they kind of didn't see it in the proper way so it's kind of a very complicated web but people they are under those different kind of pressure not only from the gender issues also from religious so sometimes they are not they are not necessary to stay in the tribe they went to the city so they still can have their own space and also sometimes a reporter will use the a detour for example when presentation in a very high position she told me every time she went back to the tribe she couldn't join the public debating meeting in the tribe she tell her brother or her father to address her point of view in the tribe she also use a new media one way because she built camera is her weapon she don't need to go back to the tribe to say it she can say it in the other society so people also hear she address her opinion with that so they are also different way it's you probably couldn't say it in the tribe but you can say it in the Han society or in your position yeah for some questions thank you it's really interesting topic you have here of course there's a few keywords here tradition in indigenous people's context always has to be good has to be respected in many ways it is almost like there's no way you can even argue or even put into a public forum for discussion is that right also because of the people don't want to hurt the feeling of the people in the tribe if they trying to tackle it yes ok that's one of the keywords that you sort of prevent any further meaning for discussion another is this kind of insiders and outside their position so every time a Han people want to make any contribution or have some sort of discussion you have to stop just like in this country whenever you talk about then you have to stop because there's a certain way that you feel you might offend people at least from my perspective inside and outside so more or less you are suggesting revolution need to be carried out from within and that should be the indigenous people they really need to take on this task so after all the interviews I'm asking you from your interviews those indigenous actors and reporters do they want to carry out revolution do they have a way of get around it thank you thank you for your question actually at the time when I do the interview I'm quite surprised within a certain different tribe only one she feel this kind of situation need to be changed she actually encounter a problem when she trying to make the news for the glass beams because she feel why she couldn't because she's a female she's in that class and then she couldn't making the news for her she need to depend on her husband to making this news she feel that's not the right way but I think she's the only one and that I'm quite surprised and I need to tell more about the fishing bowl festival one because a lot of twist go into the tribe and then if that's you do want to go on the boat to try yeah that's what happen in the tribe but you are female so you couldn't but later that's one tribe they just that the female get on the boat to see what's going on and then there are a lot of debating in the tribe first of all I think it's not because the gender role has been yeah it's because of economic driving force because you need that's not the so that's why a lot of debating and for the people they feel uneasy with that because it's kind of I think all of us probably also need to encounter certain type of taboo it's not reasonable at all but you believe it so the people in the tribe actually they just they are people from outside so they are not the people from the tribe so it doesn't count okay yeah but you can see if one tribe they just take money and then that the female go on the boat probably other tribe will follow later and the tradition will be be change yeah and at that time when I asking the reporter she feel not happy with that she feel that's tradition and shouldn't that the female people get on the boat but I think probably it's also most of the anchor they are 50 years old or above so they are not the younger generation and for that that's why I think this is not only a reasonable or not it's about the feeling because they are trying to keep the tradition so even though it's not reasonable they are trying to keep the tradition so in that sense ethnic reason or the traditional reason is higher than gender issues in their heart and I think as a people from outside I kind of couldn't against it because in my talk in Taipei there's I think there's one audience actually ask me if they don't have pregnant women she don't want to join the the festival do you think she did something wrong because if we are trying to say it's equal everybody should can join the festival and people probably still feel not they comfortable if there's tabu there and then she broke it and some indigenous tribe not only pregnant women couldn't go into the festival even her husband couldn't go into the festival yeah thank you for sharing I'm Zhen Yan and I have a question about not miracles about the nature about the chain like you mentioned like she need to make a phone call to her husband to ask for the chain for the news so like this kind of cultural product selling may destroy or lose the original cultural concept so how to encourage like most hand people or most other people to know the original cultural concept by media how to encourage us to get know to stop this misunderstanding because we don't know the chain is only for the village leader we have no idea about it so how to encourage us to watch the news or this kind of news could be spread in different media to turn on maybe in memory speaking news channel or other social media channel so yeah it's about like how to encourage us and how to solve the misunderstanding from outsider thank you for question actually that's why indigenous tell the news because in recent years indigenous issues take more and more attention so right now not only between the tell the news also haka tell the news when they are making the news sometimes they are not only report in their own channel they kind of share with the mainstream channel so they just change the subtitle from haka to ha from indigenous to ha because they are certain different tribe so you just change the subtitle and then they also kind of can be seen from other channel so they reach more audience than before and there's one time as my student you don't understand German but you see the German news you probably don't understand French but you also see the French news and why not you couldn't understand indigenous news sometimes there are also some bias in our thought probably some people think some news are important but from the indigenous perspective they are certain different categories in the global concept you can think about certain different countries and they are using different news reporting the news for you if we can understand so many different countries from the world for some reason we could understand indigenous people apart from public TV do any other channels actually take the TV reports if they do for example they are quite popular you can see how many people in that bus die the Taiwan news they are all come from they are not only Taiwan they are many people from all over the world actually go there to join the festival and also the French fish one they are so many people from outside way to Taiwan but he want to join the event and I share with you with another case there's one time join the Taiwan festival it's like the young people when you grow up you need to test some test and the test is there's a bamboo tree you need to just cry out cry out there and there are some people from other countries send their children to the tribe because they want to just it's kind of test and pass the ceremony and then that means the children has grow up and everybody will the young people so it's also about education but in a different way probably it's in a very indigenous way but people like it thanks Cospel for your for your enthusiasm and I share something and ask you if you've observed anything similar and it's related to ways to address important issues and I think one is to emphasize that the tradition or culture is not just something out there an objective social fact but it's partly rhetorical there's a story by Aki Achi is it a tile writer a woman writer and in the story this woman's husband wants her to do something to live somewhere and he says you have to because it's gaga or it's gaga a counter gaga a woman's gaga and you're just saying that it's gaga to get me to do what you want and so they end up in the story having this debate about what gaga is or what it should be so I think to emphasize that to some extent tradition and culture are rhetorical is one way to address these gender issues from within so I'm wondering if in reports reporters have ever tried to report on debates in the local community where culture tradition is open to debate and not just it's not just something that the elders can lay down the law on is that clear? yep thank you each different tribe have different ways to deal with it for example like Amis I mentioned about sea festival and actually a lot of people join the festival so sometimes female also want to come close to the sea and to see the boat goes out and a lot of tourists change the situation because if people go there and you couldn't participate because you are female you can imagine a lot of people they don't know the taboo before but so some tribe actually make some change to let people also watch it have they ever reported on the debates surrounding these things? yeah some of them they are different type of TV program and one program is like voices for indigenous people it's more like a public forum people can debate about different issues and actually some of my students they are reporter for indigenous people for indigenous television news right now and they told me after I address those issues they also make some change and reporting more gender issues on the process and they also they are some female reporter when I interviewed them they told me they are happy to be interviewed because they never think about gender issues before like the Sai Xia one because she make the news but not from gender perspective and later she actually participate a lot and reporting a lot about how female educator in the tribe they are using like APP to teach their own indigenous language so I think younger generation change little by little so it's not only everything is traditional way I think the question need to be raised first and then see what people can do little by little but of course they are always have some different opinion from male but I think some people actually raise similar question before but not for long a lot of men also a famous writer immediately say we are protecting women so that's why the tradition is like this so you need to have different strategy and different way to address it or younger generation need to change little by little and then I think also the age difference can make a lot of change different generation is quite different so different tribe also open in a different way so you mentioned about the age of the anchors I was quite curious about that generally I think we would come to expect relatively young anchors on Taiwan's media so is the key reason here language because only people in the 50 years old they still use indigenous language and for my students they are just start to learn many of the anchors grow up in the city so they also don't know the language very well and some of them because they can speak because they are raised by their grandparents so they need to communicate with their grandparents that's why they know how to speak indigenous language but also you know the language doesn't mean you can report the news it's different standard and right now we are talking about language we didn't talking about different accent or different tone because for example like the noon in different area when they all speak the noon language that's totally different so sometimes even choose anchors is very difficult for indigenous language news because this tribe if you choose Taiwan from north next time you probably need to choose Taiwan from east because a different language can be kept by this way if you only choose one area they speak different way of language even they belong to the same ethnic groups because this is a very interesting contradiction between a kind of universalism and particularism I like the first question I'm somebody who never hesitates to offend people's religious belief particularly monotheists I don't think problems are ever solved if they are not discussed so I'm wondering and also I think that cultures that don't evolve die okay so we can see that with Brexit I'm absolutely serious so my question is are there on indigenous TV any discussion programs where issues like this can be raised and discussed by indigenous people themselves I suppose because talk shows are so popular in Taiwan particularly politics talk shows so I'm also curious about that that's a great question I'll just mention about is like the voices for indigenous people so it's a public forum and every time they invite people like from from the tribe also people from from academia or from government to discuss that together and those issues also been discussed quite often in the television program do they get heated? yes sometimes people ring and then tell they shouldn't do this or that but but that's why it's important and need to be discussed yeah hi thanks I love your talk I really love the focus on different tensions and the problematics and the end result nature and you can see like you yourself are struggling with this and I think that's fantastic it's great when you first started showing people from different tribes broadcasting I was thinking to myself how on earth do they divvy up air time you have 16 tribes recognize first nations or what have you and some of them have a few hundred people some of them have a couple hundred thousand people I could imagine easily inter-tribal tensions over whether or not everybody gets the same amount of air time versus we are a million times bigger than you guys we deserve the air time and while I was thinking about that that led me to your gender focus which is it sounds like some of the tribes are more rigidly traditional in their approach to gender and some are more open to some would be more amenable to type A feminist circles not necessarily that type of feminist but that some would be sort of more open to quote unquote progressive thinking on gender as opposed to others and so putting those two thoughts of mine together I was wondering inter-tribal is there any competition in the representation of gender on indigenous news to try to sort of out-compete other tribes for scarce resources whether that's for example if a tribe is more progressive on gender issues would they represent that more in their news broadcast in order to appeal more to forces in type A right or would a tribe that is more rigidly traditional for example in order to attract tourists to something that the press might perceive as different and exotic and therefore interesting actually play up their their rigidity on gender issues so that's my question to what extent do different tribes see indigenous news strategize a way of representing gender in order to achieve other political or economic ends is that a dynamic that goes on at all yes I think the political economy the driving force behind political economy factors because it's not only gender because if people kind of open to a tourist to do something that's not allowed before but they can gain some money sometimes people do it but some actually they want to keep the traditional way and I think that's the way they think they are treasurer their own tradition so the driving force is different so it's hard to use one reason to say even within the same tribe they are different Okinian and that's quite common in different tribes they are always debating for different things and it's not only like tribe versus type A they are also different people in the tribe versus each other and maybe if they are different generation they are also different and there are also a lot of gay people in the tribe and sometimes they need to under pressure not only from the tribe but also from the religion reason so it's very diverse so I couldn't use one reason to say it but I think people trying to test and break the rule sometimes for example one reporter told me if they are dancing normally in the middle they are always male female from outside and there is one time the reporter she is a female from indigenous television news actually she the reason she was in that festival is because New Zealand sent a reporter team and trying to report something for Taiwan and so she actually guiding all of those male reporter from New Zealand get into the first row and then not for long she has been kicked out to the second row again so she know even she is a reporter she is still not allowed to be in the circle they told the people they are doing it because of making the film and you know if you are in the beside behind you couldn't get a very good view because you will film other people's button so that's why she want to get into the first row but still she cannot they just squeeze her out and then she move to the second row again and that's what happened but she tried and they reported right now in a very high position of become political figure right now but I think when she went back to the tribe sometimes she still couldn't go into like traditional cultural space for discussion but she is the reporter she told me she just use new media to become a channel to voice her own okay so can I say your question okay so let's thank Professor Sudden one more time