 Next question is from Rui Marquez Insta, is HMB worth it? HMB, you guys remember that supplement got all crazy and it was like all over the ads and stuff? Yeah, this was actually not one that I really got into. Really? So, okay. So hydroxy methylbutyrate, you could call it, right? That's the, that's what HMB stands for. It's a metabolite, an active metabolite of leucine, the amino acid that is really closely tied to the anabolic effects of protein. So the more leucine protein has, the more anabolic it has. Now I will say this, if your protein intake's high, it doesn't matter as much. It's if your protein intake is below that, you know, what studies will show to be the upper limit of where you'll get benefit from high protein. Now I remember when HMB first came out, it was EAS that was really pushing it. EAS at the time also sold creatine. Now creatine is just, it's the best natural supplement, just hands down that you can find. It's good for you, it works, it builds muscle, improves recovery. It's got heart health benefits and cognitive benefits and it's just a great supplement all the way around. And EAS tried to kind of follow on the heels of creatine with HMB and I remember reading an article and this will haunt, I think it'll haunt Bill Phillips till forever. Literally article said, creatine is like D-ball and HMB is like deca. Like he was trying to say, you'll get explosive gains with creatine and you'll get slow and consistent gains with HMB. I, and by the way, studies show HMB to be great for preventing muscle breakdown in certain populations. It helps with muscle building and strength. So there are studies to show and support it. In fact, you know those inshore, like drinks that they get to the old people or whatever. They now will have HMB in them to help with old people to prevent muscle loss. Now I've tried HMB at least 100 times because of the studies. And I've taken monster doses of it to make it work or whatever. Here's why it doesn't do shit because my protein intake's high. It didn't do anything for me when I would supplement it because it didn't do much. The value with HMB might be the similar value you'd find with branched amino acids, which is if your protein is low, then you may get some benefit from taking HMB. Let's say you're vegan and you're not hitting your 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight because it's harder to do with plant sources. HMB might be beneficial to you. Other than that, it's one of those supplements that didn't even come close to meeting the hype. Have either of you heard Lane speak on this before? He's someone who I'd love to hear talk about HMB. He says leucine, just do leucine because leucine has been shown to do the same thing. Yeah, I know that his thesis was on that. So I imagine that he would have a really intelligent answer to the- If you compare leucine to HMB in similar studies, you find that it doesn't make a difference, except for HMB is way more expensive. HMB is a much more expensive supplement. I can see benefit in some populations. Like I said, low protein populations. Yeah, but then why that? Why not just take leucine then? Exactly. Why not just give them leucine? So it's really worthless because even where it has some value, there's a product that's cheaper and would do as good of a job if not better. Yeah. So to me, that's enough to just cancel. The one time I saw some benefit, I don't remember the dose. I was like three grams, three times a day, which is way higher than you're supposed to. So I'm not advocating for this. I do like to experiment on myself with supplements. And it was during a period where I was cutting really aggressively and my protein intake even wasn't high enough because my calories were so low. And then I felt like I got a little bit of a benefit, but it never added up to the cost of buying all this freaking HMB that I took. So it's one of those supplements that I just say, look, here's the deal. If your protein intake's low and you want to take amino acids to help preserve your muscle, buy branched amino acids. Way cheaper. They're high in leucine, right? One of the branched amino acids is leucine. Typically a good branched amino acid supplement will have like a 2-1-1 ratio. So the highest amino acid is leucine than isoleucine and valine, so 2-1-1. And that'll do what the HMB is gonna do and it's much cheaper. Or your better option is increase your protein intake. Take a protein powder, which gives you all the amino acids and has all the benefits of preserving muscle. But yeah, this is one of those supplements that, it was, the marketing was so heavy behind it in the 90s and the early 2000s, like they spent so much money marketing it and it absolutely never lived up. Like I've heard of it, but also I got it confused. What's the other one called that's like a muscle relaxer? It's like a drug, something like that. It sounds like HMB, but you guys, come on you guys, you're the drug guys. Yeah, yeah, and it's, it's be like a muscle relaxer? Yeah. I don't know. I have no idea. Is it a prescription drug or is it like an actual supplement? No, no, it's illegal, I think, yeah. It's legal? Illegal. Oh, it's illegal. Oh, I don't know. Everybody's looking at Adam. Adam, what are the illegal drugs that I said? Well, shit, I'll never know. I mean, how do you measure it in grams and ounces? Hold on a second. Wasn't there a, okay, now I can't remember it. Wasn't there a drug that used to be sold? Yeah, I know this for a fact, I just don't remember the name. It used to be sold in supplement stores because it raised growth hormone and then people would take it before going to bed and it would help them sleep. Yes, methoxybolic? No, no, no, no. Bro, if people used to take it to a party. Oh, to a party. Oh, you're talking about, here we go, I got, so I have some of that somewhere. No, you don't. No, bro. Allegedly, bro. You're talking about GH. No, not GH. That's growth hormone. No, no, no. It's called, it's called, it's called, it's the acronym is still GMB or GM. GHB. GHB. Thank you. That's what it is. GHB. There it is. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm talking about. My crazy brain. No, not the same. Give me the chemical. Because I remember, God, I remember my first experience trying that stuff, dude. That's of gnarly. Not at all like HMB. No, not at all. Yeah, it's totally different. No, OK, so GHB. So that's supposed to help you get into your REM sleep. Yeah, your REM sleep faster. Like you instantly go into it. My new bodybuilders were taking it. And I remember my first experience. I'll never forget the first time. Please don't take, don't do it. Yeah, we're not wrecked. Just because I'm telling you something, a drug story. Gamma hydroxybutyrate, there you go. Yeah, GHB, right? So I mean, what, OK, that's the, what exactly is it derived from? And like what is it used for? Is it used for anything right now? But like the, I know what it is on the black market. Used for, but what is it used for? Oh, yeah. I heard it was like used for like cleaning computers and shit. Oh, really? Interesting. It's a central nervous system depressant that is commonly referred to as a club drug or date rape drug. My bodybuilders would use it to get into their REM sleep as fast as you could. And I remember the first time that I tried this, I was at my house. I remember I was scared to death to try it and I had a buddy that was peer-pressing me and do it and I'm easily peer-pressing to try drugs. And so I go, OK, I'll try this out because it's just me and you and it's safe, right? So I take it. Oh, no, it was a date rape drug, probably. He pressured you? We used to be friends. So what happened was I passed out on the couch afterwards. I just fell asleep and he went to the bathroom or something we were watching TV. It was late at night and he went to the bathroom. He comes back and him coming back into the living room startled me enough to wake up and I woke up and I thought I slept through the whole night. I thought I was a, I went, oh my God, and I just felt so rested and it felt, it literally felt like I full night sleep and I thought it was like early in the morning, like five or six in the morning and it had only been like 20 minutes. And he's like, I was like, how long have you been gone for? He's like, I just went to the bathroom. I came back and I'm like, what? Yeah. That's what it felt like. Bro, they used to sell this at supplement stores in the 90s, I believe the early 90s and it was because it raised growth hormone and they sold it as something to help you sleep. By the way, this will kill you. You take too much. Very, very dangerous. You take too much, you go to sleep, you don't wake up. Yeah, and it was, I mean, I was, I experimented with like a little tiny cap full. Yeah. So small. Yeah, and then people are like, oh, this is fun to take at the club because you feel like you're drunk. That's what I heard. It's kind of fun. It's no alcohol. My friend told me. Yeah, I don't know. And I've never used it before. But anyway, it's, that's crazy to sell it as a supplement and now it's one of these, you know, whatever. But it's not HMB, not even closed. Justin, don't cry.