 Well, we can sure hope that we don't have any problems and But the reality of the situation with wean is there will be some issues to be dealt with and we should be proactive figuring out how to be prepared for them joining me is Dr. Jerry Stucka extension veterinarian and DSU extension service and You know, you're very knowledgeable about things that we might expect to see in these calves and in these lots when we wean them What would you say we should be anticipating and how might we recognize it and we've got a strategy to deal with it? Yeah, I think overall John we're really fortunate to be in this state in a cow calf state primarily in Which we don't generally see great levels of sick cattle. We just don't when we wean our calves at our own place You know, we Maybe anticipate two to three percent of them we're going to treat sometimes we have a little bit less but sometimes You know for other circumstances, we're going to have a little bit more. So you're never quite sure But the key I think that you're driving at is that even if we have one not a hundred or One out of 200 we want to make sure we find that calf in the right in the right circumstances in the right place in the right time Because early treatment and especially with a bacterial infection early treatment of antibiotic is critical So this is where the animal husbandry skills really come into this discussion Yeah, science part of this absolutely, but animal husbandry is key here We already know what sick calves really look like when they're really sick. I mean we use the terms like depressed Well, I'm not sure the calf is depressed or not to be honest with you, but he's not feeling good Well, he's not feeling good. What does he look like? Sometimes his ears start to droop. He goes off feed a little bit and if you're if you're a real astute Student of animal behavior, you'll notice things like his hair coat is not quite the same You'll notice things like his eyes just are a little bit dull You'll notice that he's not really in a position where he's interacting with his other pen mates really really early signs That he's not feeling well. You don't always know the reason why you can't always tell whether it's respiratory disease Or he's just got a bellyache or he's got something else going on but the very very early signs of illness in the words anything that indicates it's there's an Abnormal behavior pattern to this calf is a clue that that calf needs to be looked at Probably brought up to the treatment said facility and leased Stick a thermometer in let's see what his rectal temperature is Where would we like to see that? Temperature before we get or what at what point are we saying that we got some real issue to deal with? Yeah There's actually veterinary discussion about what's the cut-off point and and some of that depends on environmental temperature It really does I guess for me. I look at the normal temperature of an animal of a calf It's a hundred and one and a half plus or minus the degree So and I even fudged a little bit beyond that so when I get a calf That's a hundred and three and a half and I'm concerned that he doesn't look right. I Think that's one that probably is going to need some treatment now. I'm going to make some different Not assumptions, but I'm going to look at that calf in a little different way Does he really have rest early respiratory disease at that point or is there something else going on with this calf? Or did I just? Mess with him too much bringing him up to the facility and it's 80 degrees when I'm looking at this calf And now he's hotter than it should be so these are animal husbandry skills Yeah, we have a thermometer to tell us but this is your skill as an animal husbandry person. I Think most cow calf operators Don't use a lot of antibiotics don't treat a lot of sick cattle And so when it comes to having to deal with one they might not have a lot in the vet cabinet yeah, and They probably haven't kept up on all the latest and newest products like a feed-on operator would who deals with this day-to-day Are there a couple of products out there or some lines of antibiotic or? Medications that you think they should be aware of and help us know what's happening in that industry pharmaceutical industry So let me back up a little bit one of the things I don't think cow calf operators need is a whole big inventory of antibiotics. They just don't they don't treat very many Even big herds. You just don't treat that many you can have some on hand for there may be an emergency Situation where I need to treat a foot rot or something like that So don't maintain a big inventory of a bunch of different antibiotics because it get it's expensive for one thing And they can go out of date number two One of the things and I'll just put this in here right now that you really need is a VCPR a veterinary Client patient relationship with your veterinarian that means that you know who your veterinarian is you know his name You work with him. He he deals with your animals He knows your operation and you trust him for recommendations He can give you advice as to if I'm going to treat any calves this fall That that need an antibiotic because I'm pretty sure they've got BRD bovine respiratory disease. Which one should I use? We are really fortunate in the last 10 to 15 years probably 10 years 10 12 years That we've had a pretty dramatic switch in our antibiotic usage It used to be years ago that we would give an antibiotic day one day two day three and maybe beyond we had a treatment every day and That was okay to keep the blood levels up of the antibiotic But actually the animals kind of got tired of it after a while to be honest with you and they got a little sore Today, we've got low volume That means I can treat a five-weight calf with some of these products with a dose of somewhere around seven and a half CCs others it may be around that five point five CCs a five-weight animal with that low of a volume and Know that I've got antibiotic on board for at least seven days. It may even be longer That's not only good For me Because I don't have to bring them in every day, but that's good for the animal because now I'm confident I've got therapeutic levels of that antibiotic in that animal for enough days so that I can get rid of those bacteria Antibiotics don't cure the animal they get rid of the offending organism. So It's really a lot better than it has been and and we've got a whole Not a plethora, but certainly a toolbox of different antibiotics we can choose and your veterinarian may May tell you to use Draxin may tell you to use the Zaktran may tell you to use the prevo it may tell you to use Exceed even Micotill and Batrell have long-acting dosages that can be used so Rely on your veterinarian have that relationship with them that you can call a veterinary client patient relationship You know, we've kind of stressed their Focused a little bit on the cow calf operator weaning his own calves in most cases He can do some things to manage stress so we can anticipate not so many problems But some of our backgrounders go and buy calves to market feed through and they use the sale bar and whatever Mechanism they can acquire calves and some of these calves come in Pretty stressed, you know some transportation issues unknown background unknown vaccinations Are those what situations would we consider it may be more of a general mass antibiotic treatment on arrival to get us through them tough time? Yeah So now we've changed the stress level dramatically Dr. Dahl had mentioned this earlier Once and I use the term piling on John and we start piling on the stressors weaning is one thing Most calves can handle it without too much problem when I start piling on transportation brand-new diets Co-mingling that's huge when I put different groups of calves together now. I've raised the stress level by 10x or more So now I need to be more aware of everything that I'm doing I Have to be aware that those calves may get sick very quickly after I bring into my place They may be sick within the first week whereas normally a wean calf is going to take you a little bit longer I got to be aware that's just going to be one or two that might get sick out of a hundred Now we're talking about five or ten or even maybe up to 20 of those calves might get sick So what can I do as an animal husbandry person? I got to think about their comfort I got to make sure that Carl mentioned this to that they know where the water is that this feed that I'm going to give them is The most palatable not to me as a human being but to them as a calf So I have no reluctance to come to the bunk and there may be some tricks I have to use I may have to feed some hay on the ground just to get them used to To me and I may have to put myself in that pen so they know who I am So that when I'm coming in the pen to try and find sick animals, they're not they're not Scared of me to the point where they want to hide their behavior. I want them to get used to me I want them to know who I am that I'm their caretaker. It's a big deal And so when I get in those situations, I want to know some vaccination history on some of those calves too because now I got to make a decision What do I really need to give that calf to promote health? There's some things that don't really help me with health and and the health we're talking about is respiratory disease Does that calf actually need a black leg vaccine? Probably not There's they actually need an implant when I when he comes to my place Probably not because I want to get him eating I want to get him healthy before I put an implant in that calf so he can make use of it So I'm going to think about only the things that promote good health in that calf It might be an intranasal vaccine. It might be a five-way vaccine. I'm going to keep it very Short and simple if I have a vaccination history that I can trust and that calf has been pretty well immunized I might choose to leave him alone entirely with vaccines and concentrate on nutrition The key question you asked me John was regarding antimicrobial use and this is this is really a conversation with your veterinarian Is this the first time you're ever doing this or have you done it before and you got some history with these calves? Do I need to manage their health with an antimicrobial? It could be if I'm if this isn't just local sale barn calves And now I'm getting calves out of Missouri and they're highly commingled I may need to give an antimicrobial an injectable antibiotic to every calf that comes because the level of Stress in these calves is more than I can manage even with my tender loving care Feed great antibiotics can fit in this too But you got to remember in order for feed great antibiotics to work calves have to be eating and that's why early on in high-stress calves I'm not a big fan of it because they just don't eat enough to to make a difference in my understanding some of the Ways we used to use or go acquire What feed great antibiotics in our bunks when we had stress periods or some you know illness showing up in the pan are changing What's the? Veterinary directive rules that are going to impact how we how we do that a good question John I wish we had a lot of time to talk about this Yeah, so the veterinary the VFD is the acronym for veterinary feed directive When we hit 2016 December 2016 January 2017 every antibiotic That goes that can be used in feed for livestock For either treatment prevention or control needs to have a veterinary permission slip if you will and that permission slip is something That we call a veterinary feed directive And I can only use antibiotics in the feed According to the label so in other words I can you put CTC which is Oreo my son or then a generic in the feed to treat Respiratory disease at one gram per hundred pounds for five days. I Can't put CTC in my feed to treat a foot brought outbreak That's extra labeled drug use which is illegal with feed additive antibiotics But the important thing to remember here is that if I'm going to use it when we hit that deadline December 2016 January 2017 That I'm going to need a permission slip from my veterinarian to use those drugs According to the label and eyes of veterinarian will now be accountable For their use as well as the producer as well as the distributor so it's a little bit of more accountability in the system I think we can do it. I think we'll do the right things up here Well, I want to thank you dr. Stucka for covering these health aspects. I think You know you brought a few things really to the front and one is we can be prepared with having some products On hand but our biggest preparation is to get to know our veterinary have a relationship So when we need some advice we can move ahead so in closing any final yeah, you know John I think sometimes and I'm a veterinarian so I'm biased. I'm not sure we've asked our veterinarians the right questions Doc, what do I need? What did I use last year? What and he might ask you a question? Well, how did you get along last year because he won't remember every herd that he consults with ask him what you need? Or say doc, what do I need to use? This is what my history has been. What do I need to use for vaccines? How do I use them if I need to have an antibiotic on board for some sick cats? Which ones do you think I should use and how should I use them? That's a really important thing Well, thank you very much You're welcome