 Thank you. We're now live happy. Happy peaceful transfer of power I'm in okay So we have with us Gussie Lee and Jen holler Jen is a true that John retired He did he retired from Downs Rackland Martin and government affairs work. He's thinking about his next step So far, he's been making awesome dinners every night. So it's working out great for me Wow Okay, well you guys are obviously Far from newbies to this process I'm gonna turn it over to both of you however you want to do it essentially we want to get is an update from last September of what you've been doing and What you see in the future that needs to be done either continuation of your programs or new ideas and I'm sure you could talk for hours on it, but you've got about 45 minutes. So I Wouldn't be surprised if there's a presentation in the offing here Mr. Chairman for the record Gus Selig executive director for the Vermont Housing and Conservation Board and With me as our policy director Jen holler will share the presentation I am not great at screen-sharing. So I'm gonna try to get the presentation up We will cover the coronavirus relief funding As well as other activities including we usually do not spend any time in your committee But we have some important economic development work We do and rural economic development work. So we've got a few slides on that I want to say To send it around this is the first time I think I've had the opportunity to testify in a committee that you've been sitting in so welcome and look forward to working With you and with that, let me see if I can get the screen share up if I can't Jen will Well, you're doing that Gus I Started in general housing and military ferries on the house side and so we did cross paths then you Cross and you cross you cross paths and ways it means means. Yeah. Yeah, I mean Kasia and I served together on ways and means for what four years. Yeah Okay, so here here we go and Let's see Gus does this have you sent this to Nathan is it up on our website? I believe it is I think Jen sent it to him this morning. So Um, so just as broad overview, this is what our statue statue tells us to do in 10 VSA chapter 15 And I just want to make note that it is about Not just housing and conservation but economic vitality and quality of life for Vermonters The map here that you see is actually we don't see anything Gus. Ah, well, then I'm gonna Ah Stop trying to screen share because that's not working and ask Jen to do that So are you seeing? Anything on the screen now COVID response and recovery? Okay, great. So let's go to the next slide Jen And here's our mission statement for all of you that comes from the statute that you gave us the map that you're looking at is the village of Shelburne and This is what we call a dual goal project Which is the highest priority in our statute and it includes a large amount of conserved land along The La Plot which is one of those waterways that we've actually been able to measure improvements in water quality and the construction of Two different projects. I think Something like a hundred different units one by Cathedral Square Corporation and one by CHT in the village along with four homes That were built by Habitat for Humanity That the community welcomed and supported and we weren't sure that that would always happen Let's go on to the next slide Jen and this is our work writ large over 33 years and And we'll talk a little bit about as I said later in the presentation About the eight about the businesses that are enrolled in our farm and forest viability program and a program Senator star initiated called the Rural Economic Development Initiative that farm and forest viability program in addition to its normal business assisted 524 businesses this year with COVID relief funding all over the state I guess I just want to say before I turn it over to Jen to talk about the coronavirus relief fund that this has been a really challenging year for everybody and I think a very emotional last week for all of us and Yesterday or Monday I was talking with our AmeriCorps volunteers About Dr. King and Dr. King's legacy I had the great fortune as an eight-year-old to actually be at March on Washington in 1963 And I can't tell you I remember Dr. King's speech from that day I think I mostly remember lots of singing and Mahalia Jackson and long walks and a hot day But I was recently reading the Meacham biography On John Lewis and there's a point in it where Arthur Schlesinger Jr. one of the president's key advisors was Talking about the need for the vote for civil rights and voting rights legislation and saying in the 21st century People will look back and think Weren't we crazy? Essentially to have the society that we had and here we are 57 years later dealing with such fundamental issues Among all of us and and as we think about our mission we think from the moment we were invented It was about providing access supporting inclusion and We are absolutely committed to Continuing that work as best we can There's a number of other public policy goals that we can achieve through our work and that's included water quality It's included smart growth. It's included climate It's includes dealing with the opioid epidemic and supporting Recovery residences and the creation of them It's about community gathering spaces It's also about providing in a time where we need to be socially distant places for people to recreate Safely outdoors and it's very much about providing access to housing of all types from rental housing to home ownership So with that I'm going to turn it over to Jen to talk about What we did with the CRF funding that we thank you for your enormous support in providing funding to us to get out to your constituents to Help people in great need in this crisis. So Jen floors yours Okay, so An enormous thank you for entrusting us with a large amount of the coronavirus relief funds over the course of a few bills you allocated thirty four point two five million to VHCB and You did Dedicated CRF for housing for a number of other entities and we've coordinated with them. You'll hear from others Later this morning But our piece in that effort was to provide permanent housing and safe shelter For the folks who are experiencing homelessness related to the to the pandemic and at the time We had estimated with the funding you're going to provide we'd be able to do about 250 secure 250 new permanent homes We've able been able to achieve very close to that and and also made other improvements as well What you see on the left here in the pictures and we've gotten all around the state at the top is an apartment building in St. John's Berry were five new apartments were brought back online and are now Dedicated through the local coordinated entry system to folks who are experiencing homelessness in the middle is Upper Valley Haven they made improvements there that allow the shelters which are often very crowded to make improvements to improve Allow greater distancing and safety and comply with CDC guidance at the bottom is a Housing development in Middlebury where now four apartments will be specifically set aside and targeted to those who are experiencing homelessness And they'll be supported with services So here's a here's a look at the results of that Money and I want to say also. Thank you for the confidence in VHCB and You acted very early on in your first bill as 350 with some business recovery grants and then the initial Allocation to us in order to get started. It typically takes two or three years to develop a housing project And we had just six months So with that early signal, we were able to work and sort of activate the nonprofit housing network to go out and look for opportunities around the state For where housing could be secured in areas where there were a great number of people in Temporarily placed in motels and we coordinated with the agency of human services around that And here are the results you can see where we've gotten around the state each of the communities is listed There are 247 new homes in 15 different locations that were acquired and or rehab And are now permanently affordable housing We also made grants to 12 different emergency shelters around the state that have made the kinds of improvements I described just a second ago Here I'm going to run through a few examples Just to give you an idea of the variety It took a good amount of creativity and there is Quite a range of types of different housing that were that were made permanent And available to folks who are homeless as a result of this funding. So here's a big one This is in Essex Junction the former Baymont Inn in Suites was purchased by the Champlain Housing Trust has been renovated and is now 68 permanent apartments for people moving out of homelessness This is a really unusual one, this is a former John Deere dealership in Rutland, which is now been completely Rehabbed and is nine apartments with supportive services in a collaboration with a local homelessness agency the health the mental health agency and the medical center down there It's a highly energy efficient building. There will be services provided and We've just learned that the cherry on the top is going to be a solar array that's going to be paid for by V light the Vermont low-income With some old energy money You might recall that there was a proposal in Burlington because the low barrier shelter had to close down because it couldn't be Safe in a COVID time for some shipping containers to create a new near Sears Lane And there was a variety of opinions about that our board actually declined to fund that proposal when it came to us We kept working with a new which was the proponent of the proposal and they eventually were able to purchase and renovate and get done by December 30th Changes to the Champlain Inn, which will now be 33 units and can house up to 50 people along with Services and there's also Office and community space there We've helped among the shelters that we've provided or is one in that we've assisted is one in Rutland and then in Wyndham and Windsor County Those shelters are now made safer. This is a pre-COVID picture of people going through a training to help support the folks in those places Another one of the larger projects is in Colchester the former handy suites the Champlain Housing Trust worked with steps to end domestic violence to secure this building renovate it and It's now 21 It now can be home up to 21 households and there were 18 adults and 19 children We're sheltering there over the holidays and there more have been moved in since This is one of the more unusual properties. It's a former Chalet Motel very famous in the Brattleboro area. It's been purchased and renovated There's also additional land on the site. So future housing development may Maybe possible there. There's a very close collaboration here between the Wyndham and Windsor Housing Trust and Groundworks collaborative the local homeless and shelter provider. I want to note here that there was another motel that was That could have been purchased but it was much larger was 60 or 70 units and there was a discussion in the community and at the state level around whether that made sense or not and There were a variety of opinions and some thought well, let's go for the let's go for the building that's got the most potential new homes but in consultation with the agency of human services and Thinking about what's going to make the best permanent housing It was decided that that level of concentration of people with high needs Maybe wasn't the best answer and that also it was going to be difficult to have the services to support all of them And in the end, this was this was decided to be the better the better long-term investment I'm gonna have a question. I don't mean to interrupt your please do It's just a preview of what we can expect to hear from homeless advocates and stuff But I'd like to hear it from either you or Gus We were sort of delirious in our joy last year when we were talking about building back better together and At some point there was even some talk that we can permanently end homelessness with this program What's the status of that goal right now as you see it in the housing World and community I think we've since learned that there's been changes in a lot of the metrics and we're nowhere near that goal at this point That's right There's been a lot of good that has happened and a lot of people now have permanent homes that don't and I don't want to lose sight of that If our assumptions are what we knew back in June still held We would be on our way to ending homelessness the funding that you provided was going to make available through a variety of ways Enough housing or rental assistance that could have Helped the folks that were in motels at that time to secure permanent housing either through the rental rehab program Josh will tell you about through this program or rental assistance that was going to help people move into existing housing and Hundreds of people have done that but the pandemic's gone on longer the economic fallout is been more severe and There while people have been coming out of motels unfortunately more have fallen into homelessness and and The numbers are now higher than they were when we first began talking about this. So the challenge remains But that doesn't mean that this in no way In no way does that mean that we didn't achieve What we had hoped to achieve in terms of the number of units and the people who are permanently housed I Just add one other point. There's something like like 1800 households probably over 2,000 Vermonters in motels As we speak And there are a number of them that have rental assistance vouchers that have been issued but there Aren't enough there isn't enough housing and so we continue and we said this last spring To say a big part of the problem is a supply problem And in vermont and we're not the only place experiencing this without increasing supply. We cannot solve this problem So our long-term work of adding Homes across the state need needs to continue. It's a it's a continuing need. We have a shortage It's clearly we had a lot of Vermonters who were doubled up prior to the Pandemic they were never counted under the official HUD count as being homeless And those are households that found it probably was not safe to be doubled up So that's added to this But we clearly have a supply problem that that we will need to continue To address in order to get at get at this issue and we're doing it At a time and we'll get to this at the end of the presentation where real estate prices are going up In many markets, which is going to close off access to some folks Okay, I I apologize for that diversion But I want us to To center the committee and where we're ultimately going to go with a lot of this and we're going to hear a lot more from uh Other people on homelessness services and supply. So I just wanted to get that out on the table So i'm sorry gen. Why don't you continue? Okay, please do interrupt at any time It's one of the disadvantages of the screen sharing and is that it's harder to to See where where people may have questions. So i'm going to keep running through a couple different examples of the new homes that were created So some zero energy modular homes have been Purchased and placed on empty lots in mobile home parks. So here's one in bristol five more will go and there There are three that are going to be installed there and five more are going to be delivered to parks in bradford and hardwick and again those Homes will be made available to homeless families that are Referred through the local coordinated the local continuums of care and coordinated entry system How much do they cost? total cost of citing one of these new homes All in there about a hundred seventy five thousand dollars including the frost wall foundations that hud requires and the solar package to help make them A zero energy home And how many of these did we do statewide? Eight of these How many eight eight of these Eight, okay Another example of what we've done is that um tiny homes in berry So one of these had been done one of these homes had been done previously and they were being constructed by students at norwich um But norwich had to shut down so they couldn't complete the second unit. So we were able to use cr This was the place we were able to use crf funds to fill that hole. There was no longer that Essentially free labor. Um, but the money Filled in so these are homes for chronically mental. Um people with um chronically mental uh chronic homelessness and supported by washington county mental health, excuse me We've been stumbled over that This one's a little unusual it's in chitney county The ho hum motel was purchased by the champlain housing trust in coordination With uh, the agency of human services. There was really a need for a facility where folks who are homeless Um, it could isolate or recover from coven Um, obviously you can't stay safe in your home if you don't have a home So being homeless during a pandemic is really really A vulnerable and um awful place to be so um, the ho hum has been um Housing people who are either been as I said exposed or have come down with coven and vermont's done really really well um in keeping its homeless population safe, which of course, um is important on a humanitarian level but also Um reduces costs to the state in terms of their of their of their care And this and this property can what can be eventually be turned to permanent housing Um when the pandemic's over So now I'm going to turn oh go ahead senator So I have a question, um You know, we're all faced with this challenge of getting money out the door quickly and The december 30th deadline and things like that Do you have any feel whatsoever? The people that were selling you these properties? uh Knew that and took advantage of it and Got top dollar as opposed to market value for these purchases and If so, I hope there would be some idea going forward how to make sure that does not happen Um It was definitely a tough negotiating environment Senator there were there was hopes to do projects in central vermont and in the upper valley that Did not take place because An agreement on price could not be met whether that was driven by what the owners knew Uh in terms of the availability of funds or You know when you're selling a property, you know, they're if you have a number members of a family involved in it Which was the true in one case they maybe maybe some wanted to get out of the their business and others did not Uh, but it was definitely a tougher When you have to do things really quickly um You are at a disadvantage As well Okay, i'm going to turn it over to gus to talk about our more of our core work and as you mentioned, um Senator syrock and the ongoing work that's going to need to continue to happen and what we see coming Um, so i'm going to just take a very few minutes and then we'll get back to your questions Just to run through the kind of work We have always been doing Some of which we've done with the housing revenue bond the building on the left Really was the conception of the leadership of the city of st. Albans. It's right across from city hall It was part of a redevelopment of what they considered one of the most blighted buildings in the community Also includes not funded by us New office space for community college and for their medical center, but this is 30 apartments Done by the shamplain housing trust with um five or six of them reserved for homeless families Private builder has also got some revenue bond help For a building that will open in april On the right is a building we did back a decade ago. It's the brattle borough food co-op This goes to our smart growth mission, but really speaks in in a different way to our dual goals The food co-op Basically needed was on the same site in downtown brattle borough had a long debate about whether to leave the community Downtown decided they should stay And then they invited the local housing trust to build on top of them And so 24 apartments were created in this facility same They moved from a strip mall back on the river right onto the main street restoring the streetscape Uh three employees of the co-op were among the original renters So they would never have an excuse to be late for work unless they got The heating system used excess heat from the refrigeration system to help heat the building along with solar power um and the brattle borough food Brattle borough co-op when they started this project was doing about 12 million dollars of annual sales This is as of about three years ago. They were well past 20 million dollars and they source a significant amount of their food From something several hundred farms that are that are within 100 miles of the co-op So it's an it's a great economic driver for downtown brattle borough. Let's go on to the next slide And it's gotten two different national awards um another several other housing revenue bond projects on the left is the primary building in downtown bennington at the crossroads of route seven and nine the putnam block That had been vacant since the 1970s And is now at substantial completion. We are a small part of a big economic development project that I attended the opening with the groundbreaking with the governor and the president of the bank of bennington Said in his opening remarks as the leader of the bennington economic development corporation This is a project that made no economic sense, but made all the community sense in the world It was possible in part because both the hospital and bennington college realized that if they had a dead downtown They were going to have a dying community and they both Least significant amounts of office space We funded just 11 micro units in the building as part of a bigger development on the right If you were in my player is the transit new transit center that has about I can't remember 24 to 30 apartments in it Some with views of the state house some with views of the river 20 years in the planning And the private builder who was going to build this pulled out at the last minute Uh and uh ever north you whom you know is housing vermont in past years And downstream rebuilt Jumped into their shoes and built the building and again units reserved for the homeless here um downtown st Jay the key building is undergoing a renovation now the local economic development corporation is buying as a condominium all the commercial space and ever north and rural edge are renovating 40 apartments There this was among the worst slums in the state When it was undertaken Many years of bed bug infestation in the middle is the french block also in mont pillier And on the left is the snow block in braddleboro. This is the wilson block in springfield That is just opening as we speak Senator Clarkson. I don't know if you've been able to get down there But I I saw some pictures I've had I've had a tour uh just uh in October late october early november and again, um Revenue bond project uh four units reserved for homeless youth here along with uh somebody who will support them And mixed income as all these developments are senator ballant joined us for a virtual groundbreaking for the bellows falls garage it had a setback in earlier this year but is now on its way to to get in terms of the cost of this building and They thought they'd be able to save the whole structure and found that that was going to be too costly, but uh redesign is on its way and Uh, this is the redesign and we're confident it'll be under construction this summer And we saw this on our tour. We saw you did walk by it. Yep Yeah, and we it just like we saw the one in sent all of it Yeah, um, so I won't spend a lot of time on this slide but But housing is an economic driver Tom gavette has said that in the past that when you're trying to climb out of a recession it creates jobs Like almost nothing else will It generates taxes and let's just keep moving along here This is a project that we undertook again with the revenue bond in Hartford That I think the committee visited at some point or visited the site. There are 24 additional units under construction again 30 apartments with 20 25 of them were reserved for homeless families And again Additional building on its way today and highly energy efficient One of the points that is in our statute that we're told our board is told by you to consider is how to leverage the state's investment Um, we've made a higher investment with housing revenue bond funding than we usually do Um, and we're about 20 of this deal but 60 of the Project is coming from private equity investors using something called the low-income housing tax credit And so there's a huge amount of private investment that makes these deals happen along with some other federal programs and private lending Uh, we're lending through the vermont housing finance agency. So we're always looking To take what we you what we What you give us and get as much bang for the buck and create as much construction activity as possible Having the economic multipliers and the job creation that I think this committee and your colleagues have always sought Let's keep moving jen um We do focus a significant amount of our work on single family home ownership. I wish it were larger Um, but you've asked us repeatedly to focus on the most vulnerable Vermonters um, but one of the things you that a housing economist will tell you is when people are shut out of The home ownership market it actually creates more pressure in the rental market. So the people who are at the Income levels that are at the top of renters When they're competing with very low-income people for the same housing um They end up winning and and people with more modest incomes end up Uh in more desperate situations Um, we do a lot of rehabilitation Work with our housing. This was the champlain housing trusts 500th home. It was a wreck of a building when we took it on and it is now A really wonderful spot with substantial rehabilitation We've invested in about 1200 of these homes across the state and because we use something called shared appreciation They have now become home to 18 more than 1800 families. In other words upon resale They stay affordable We work extensively with habitat for humanity. It's usually five to seven homes per year But it now totals more than 120 homes Across the state. Uh, so it's small but steady impact and it is Perhaps the most affordable home ownership option we have because both future homeowners And volunteers from the community help to build the homes. So except for where you need licensed trades you get you're getting the labor greatly discounted This is the conversion of 19 rental units at 40th and allen into home ownership again with us providing down payment assistance And some renovation work. Let's keep moving through the show Um, and this is a story of a home that we this is the quintessential vermont cape in brookline vermont, um We made a $12,000 investment in this home back in 1993 a family of four bought it They lived there. There was a divorce ultimately The woman and who stayed there with her kids remarried. They sold it in 1998 or 2000 They got some equity out of it a new buyer came along Um Single mom she was there for several years Um She remarried she moved on that a local realtor in 2005 Purchased it and you're seeing the net purchase price to the buyers And the market values across the bottom of that That screen and they were there for uh, she and her husband were there for about 15 years and sold it about three years ago Uh was bought by a machinist and somebody worked part-time as a teacher in daycare And they're they're still there today There's there was actually a decline in the value of the home But because that $12,000 subsidy had grown to $60,000 Given the way the shared appreciation works even with a decline in market Those buyers were able those sellers were able to leave and get their dollars out And the equity and the they earned some equity by having paid down their mortgage And a new family came in at $110,000 So we think this is a model that works well. Um, we also have a grant from HUD We've we've renewed it about 10 times now over 27 years um, and it has served almost Well 2,700 homes and apartments across the state two-thirds have been owner occupied or private for-profit rental properties The importance of getting lead paint making homes lead safe is that it lead paint poisoning has Cognitive long-term impact on young children that you do not recover from there's no cure for what you lose When you ingest lead so really important program We're glad to support it. It's one of those programs that we actually have to subsidize with state dollars But important to bring those resources to vermont and an example of how we're working with the private sector across the state Let's move on to the next slide and gen i'll turn it back over to you Okay, thank you guys. So part of our mission is historic preservation and we make grants to preserve and improve Buildings that are available for community use around the state. We've done about 72 over our history one of the more recent ones was contributing to the the renovation and preservation of this community center the former st. Joseph school in the old north and and Um, our sense is that this is a very active place providing programming and services and I'm sure that all People who are used to using that are probably very eager to get back to using it in the way. It's fully Fully intended after the pandemic, but we wanted to share that as example of something we we've also done People think of us as housing and conservation primarily, but I'm not going to run through a couple other things that the organization does In order to support those missions And can I think you're up for a second? Yeah, just a timing question And I know senator rom is pretty familiar with the work that you do and so is all the members of the committee We have very little time and I'd like to focus on the the future Rather than going through all the All the things that vhcb does You know the problems we're trying to face with covid and I think even you know gusts had Recognized that we need to move on to that as well in the okay All right, let me reorient then and talk about what we do we think in the help of the recovery Is that would that be helpful? Okay, so one thing is our sergeants Oh, these projects are so amazing though. You ended on a really great note with st. Josephson I spent a lot of time in there at the association africans living in vermont. So I mean, thank you for all these projects. It's not Okay. Yeah, thank you. Um so Back to covid and crf. So, um About 18 years ago. Sorry. It's a little bit historical. Senator. I won't dwell But vhcb established a viability program to help support the enterprises and businesses that are actually working the land In most instances that is conserved So under the theory that in order to keep um the land that's conserved open and working well We need the the people who are stewarding it and caring for it to have viable businesses So we have a farm and forest viability program that provides intensive one-on-one advising Business advising and financial planning assistance to enterprises over time. It's been about 850 Um businesses have enrolled in that program over the last 18 years. So um As you can imagine, um, the pandemic has been a tremendous disruption to these businesses and CRF funding was allocated by the legislature To help the program set up a rapid response business coaching program to help them access state and federal programs shift to new markets You know rework their their delivery systems And we are happy to report that we were able to provide that support in the last six months for more than 500 different enterprises These businesses are going to continue to need support in the coming months And they also are very much the future of what we want for month to be So I want i'm hoping the committee can think of this as a resource Vhcb out of our annual allocation provides about $800,000 a year to this program And then they go around chasing down other federal and philanthropic funds In order to support the whole program So that's something that we would like to be doing more of Um The other thing that we the other piece of our work that we think can help with the recovery is our Ready program the senate created this it's specifically designed to help communities that have um in rural areas under 5 000 in population and The essentially what the program does is it provides grant writing assistance to help them pull in federal and philanthropic funding that might otherwise be left on the table because they don't have the capacity Sorry, somebody needs to mute Okay, I hang on just second john can you stop doing the dishes please? I've never once said that in my life Okay, so Anyway through the ready program we provide we help them write grants over the last three years with $225,000 to vhcb We've secured 4.4 million for them in order to uh To do a variety of projects on the upper left here Is the clements farm in addison county and they received a really competitive national grant I think it was about 300 325 thousand dollars to help create a cultural arts and cultural center Jenna's promise is in johnson. It's a recovery center. We helped a business in fairfield Move into an old scrabble factory and it's now run a very Successful run amok maple and then on the far right is a gentleman and glover who secured a federal Value added producer grant through you as da So just think of those as resources in terms of what we can do This is a quick slide from gilford vermont that shows how all the different things we do Can come together when there's strong local leadership affordable housing Um a community center the restoration of the local general store and preserving on the green river that restores flood plain Um and habitat so i'm going to keep moving along quickly. Hey den this becca. Can I just say Yeah, Katie. Katie buckley was really instrumental in helping revitalize The uh the country store there and just like to give her a little little plug She's still doing really good work in southern vermont. So Absolutely, you know, I um state state money in montpellier Is great, but you really can't make much happen unless there's strong local leadership and katie was fantastic down there in gilford And that's and they they for a small town have really pulled in a lot of resources to strengthen our community She she is a force of nature. Yeah Okay, i'm going to hand it back over to gus about what more we'd like to be able to do So as you can see in this slide, um There is a lot more for us to do and I guess I would just say that as you think about your economic development and your housing missions We're a place that it comes together um There's clearly a long long pipeline of Projects that we can be doing all over the state. I think senator that mr. Chairman. That's why you've been so interested in um Doing another uh bond for housing. Um, I would just say to you as as gen has just indicated that our conservation programs Are also contributing to economic recovery. Um You know historic sites like the daisy turner homestead is important to our Both to our heritage and to our travel and tourism as is Site like the clemens farm But even with our farmland work, um, and this goes to the generational demographic challenges half of the time that we conserve A farm It's to promote an intergenerational transfer to deal with a demographic challenge of vermont and And young people are using the sale of development rights as a way to get um To get on to into farm ownership. So it's really important, but they're In every direction we look whether it's rental housing recovery housing The need for mobile home park investment. Uh senator ballant is well aware of our work with tri park There's just tremendous need for us to continue to attack it One of the problems with the current federal package that you will undoubtedly discover is We're grateful that there is a huge amount 200 million dollars of rental assistance We only spent 25 million dollars For rental assistance out of the crf funding Um, but um, and it'll be a challenge to use all 200 million dollars There's apparently more in the in the president's next proposal There's nothing to provide for capital For housing and so to get to that question of balance Uh and providing more units. We're going to need your help. Uh, and I think there are two ways to do that and one is by Impressing upon the federal delegation that we need more help But the other is to work with your colleagues and this is our I think our very last slide or not quite the closing slide, but the transfer tax Um, I sat in the senate finance committee when it was raised back in our second year of existence when act 200 was passed It was passed primarily because it would be a barometer Of what's going on in the real estate market and pressure in the real estate market upward makes housing and land Harder for people of more modest means to access This data is provided, uh through the housing finance agency and what it shows you is that There is a great increase and this is a few months old, uh through october In homes selling above 300,000 400,000 and 500,000 dollars That's what's generating the increase. We should probably think about this as a one time or maybe two year phenomena And I would say to you that we are a great place to park one time dollars If we do a lot as we did with the revenue bond We make these investments and we don't have to you can decide to ratchet it back Yesterday there was new data on the transfer tax projections It went up another five million dollars and what that would mean if it could be allocated to us Is last year our budget was 17 million dollars both between the transfer tax and the capital bill It would go up to 27 million dollars. I know there'll be other competition and other need that senator valent and everybody in appropriations is going to be asked to address but I I guess I think this is a moment at which recognizing what in the increased value Of homes and land means for people who are squeezed out of the market This is a time to invest in in our work. So we'll stop there Except to say as we said a few minutes ago that The numbers of remoders who are homeless as a result of the economic fallout and the pandemic is stubbornly high and we Need more supply to address it We need to do some other things as well. Uh, and we will we will get rental assistance from the feds It seems to help address that at least for the short term terrific Any questions for Gus or Jen um So I have one comment Senator Brock, did you have your hand up? You're muted randy You're muted I do have just a general question not to be answered immediately, but I wonder if The vhcb could just provide us with a list of the projects Housing projects that you've done this year with the number of units That are provided in each and then the total cost For each of those projects including Specifically the cost of public funds that went into the project in addition to total cost That would be just very helpful to try to digest what we're getting Yeah, we will give you that with our annual report senator. It's always in the annual report So you will have that and if what will that be up by the way It it's due to you the end of the month at the end of january And if there if there are more questions, please Let's explore them all I will say senator and you know you have been Sometimes asked us hard questions about cost Because of the nature of the properties that we needed to acquire to meet the six month deadline. We did this primarily at the low end Compared to what you're used to so most of those projects are well under $200,000 a unit good Okay, thank you senator Clarkson so gust and jen thank you. This was terrific and As you know, this is a committee that's completely dedicated to your mission and Fair very supportive of this work and we just applaud how much you've got done in such a short window of time Which leads me to my first question, which is With the extension The federal extension of spending some of this money How many more projects might be able to be swept it in under this and As we look at FEMA dollars replacing some of the crf and being able to use Some of our other money more flexibly What what do you see that enabling? Well, we turned back about 1.3 million dollars At the beginning of December and depending on who one talks to the administration certainly considers those dollars to have been reallocated There were two projects in particular that The developers just had to give up on one was in St. Albans another in Rutland Because they were sure they there was no way to meet the December 30th deadline Um So where are those dollars to be reallocated? And with another year to spend them we could I'm sure find ways to do that There is Much less flexibility in the new package than there was in the rf package and that's one of As we learn more about it and you know, we're all hoping that In another week, there'll be better treasury guidance than the guidance that's come out so far There might be a little bit more flexibility Even the rental assistance program I'm sure you're about to hear from richard williams is far more restrictive than what we could do with the crf funding So we have challenges ahead. I know the congressional delegation will be happy to work and push for more flexibility from the feds That's could I add that um, and as you said they're going to hear from richard williams later and the need for rental assistance is is Tremendous We all have To the extent the legislature could let richard know how much he can have and let him get up and going would be fantastic He's really it's going to be um administratively much more challenging than the last time around and whatever it isn't Set to be used by september will be reallocated to other states So we know there's a need for rental assistance and to the extent the legislature can let him know early on that He's going to have a certain amount to work with and can get going It's going to help the state be more successful Particularly with the tight strings that are around it because it's going to take a while for those to change Yeah, I double down on that urging that right move that as quickly as possible and Keep it moving because if people are unable to pay rent, um It it's problem both for them and for the landlords even with an eviction moritz william in place um I have a comment uh gusts So you mentioned uh this committee my interest in the first housing revenue bond and promoting a second housing revenue bond Uh, i'm putting in another bill as you know with the second revenue bond several committee members have sponsored i'm not naive as to the hurdles that faces but uh, we're very big into leveraging and matching and And uh trying to get the most bang for our buck early on that's why The first housing bond was so attractive to me Even though it took a million or two million dollars from your annual appropriation to pay the debt service it got 37 million dollars up front and out to build housing now as opposed to what that One or two million dollars could do over the next 20 years so i'm looking to you guys to figure out any other creative ways to get money up front and leveraged uh given the uh where we are and what the federal government Is doing and uh, i'm sure a lot of people are going to have all kinds of ideas how to do this extra money that coming in housing assistance and I think you are very good at saying the overall picture and and leveraging money and matching funds and so i'm looking for ideas from you folks As soon as you can get them to us Okay, I I guess I would just say senator I would be completely supportive Uh much to the chagrin of the treasure of another bond Um given what the transfer tax is doing at this moment If there were a way to capture an extra 10 million dollars a year for the next two years For housing that might be a good way to go as well And I think we should just look at it because this is not Likely a phenomena that would last and I think that there is a great case to be made That we should capture this revenue and reinvest it Um Because because it's a reflection again of Of an upward pressure in the real estate market that will be make it harder for people to buy housing Make housing less affordable make land less accessible as well Well, and may I just say given on one of the top 10 towns where this has happened Less houses sold but at much higher value Totally squeezing out full-time residents Uh that that which is also a a challenge that we're facing which puts Additional pressure on schools and education funding with fewer kids. I mean we're you know We're just being gutted by seasonal residents And and we're not clear that they're all many saying oh, we're going to come sometime full time and oh, it's remote work now but You know, it's it's unclear as this sugars out how many will become full-time residents And anyway, it's it's a phenomenon that is a real a huge challenge So that reinvestment of that 10 million in full-time affordable housing in communities that no longer have any affordable housing Is incredibly important okay, um For the people who are New to the community our witnesses. We're now taking 10 minute breaks on the half hour. So We will on the hour On the half hour We're now um at 9 35 will reconvene at 9 45 and we'll start with richard williams. Thanks Thank you. That was great um I guess we're at 9 45 so we're ready to go Nathan and we are still live and um, we're going to talk about the rental housing subsidy program Which was run by the remand state housing authority So richard, I There you are. Hi richard Why don't you give us an update from September you can also give us a little bit of the historical background uh to refresh our memory and for our new member And tell us where we are and what you see as a need going forward And I assume that you better than anybody might have a bit of a handle on what was passed in December in washington what we might see from the biden administration and What your needs are what holes you've seen other than just continuing the program what tweaks you might want to make to the program So i'll leave it to you to go forward. Thank you richard. Please introduce yourself Thank you, mr. Chairman. Uh, my name is richard. Williams. I'm the executive director of the vermont state housing authority I've also asked kathleen burk to join me today uh, kathleen is the uh, uh, the director of the rental administration of of our Of our rental assistance programs Uh, I just I want to thank all returning members to your committee and your newest member Look look forward to working with everyone and And this committee's uh been very supportive to this agency in the past and I know You will continue to be uh, because Housing is in your name. So, uh, yes, let's begin. Uh, rental housing stabilization program um was uh, uh, uh, just a little background was contained in a bill called h966 uh And it was related to covet 19 funding for assistance for broadband connectivity housing economic relief And it was signed into law by governor scott on july 2nd Vermont state housing authority launched, uh, its program on monday july 13th uh, the rental housing stabilization program Provided uh, rental reage uh to the landlord uh for the actual amount owed by the tenant Or the vsha payment standards, which we, uh, established for the section eight housing choice voucher program Whichever was less, uh You know the the household and the unit had to meet certain eligibility Criteriors, but the primary goal If you recall of this program was to keep remodels housed During his public health emergency by allowing them to keep Their rented homes by granting back rent funds and avoiding termination of tennessee court evictions and homelessness The secondary goal was to compensate landlords for some of their losses due to the cares act uh judicial emergencies and state of eviction proceedings So the uh, rental housing stabilization program, uh, was active for six months. Uh, And it's paid out 21 billion 119 thousand dollars Currently the vermouth state housing authority is out of money, uh for that particular program I will give you a little history, uh We were appropriated additional, uh money But in october We were required to Assess the program and look at the expenditures, uh because we had a requirement to report back, uh to the administration On the progress of the program To date at that time Uh, we honestly didn't think that we were going to spend our full full appropriation Uh, we actually thought there would be three million dollars in reserve Therefore the agency of administration, uh recaptured Uh through the uh agency of congress and community development recaptured that three million dollars And then uh In november and december the applications just ramped up way beyond expectations At the same time, you know, this program was running Working with our partners vermont legal aid vermont landlords association. We were continuingly Modifying this program, uh to include as many low income households members in various different Uh situations and uh and that in those in those organizations, uh, you know, really did a great job Helping us with stipulation agreements, uh, which were arranged between attorneys to settle back rent disputes out of the court Otherwise it led to eviction once the moratorium was was lifted, uh I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe, you know prior to covet there was over 600 Cases pending before vermont courts regarding evictions. I know that our next speakers can can confirm those details We also almost in like the last month and a half Came up with a new way to spend money And that was a motion to dismiss and what we were using was 12 vsa 47 73 which provides a renter a way to have a non-payment eviction case discontinued if the renter pays into court all the rent due Through the end of the current rental period including interest and cost of soup. So That's where uh There was a case. Uh, it was based on renter rearage and uh through all the reaching out Was still not able to settle those cases. So We worked out a an arrangement would vermont legal aid Where we paid that amount into their escrow account And then they in turn paid that into the court to dismiss the case Vermont landlord association Uh started up a mediation services Program that was laid in or in the program, but uh, I thought was successful And angela will be able to uh, tell you how many cases that uh That was settled through that process, but uh I thought that was a great pilot program I don't want to really dwell on uh, you know a lot of the report I I did post it up for the committee. I also both posted up the landlord survey That we sent out about a week or a week and a half a year ago and at that time there was about over 500 Uh landlords had responded to our survey out of I believe around 1600 That we had sent out to people to landlords that participated in our program and overall the uh Those uh, the information that we gathered through that was that We really were able to reach out to their private landlord or or the property manager Now this is based on responses, of course So but 93 of the responses said that they were Uh, a landlord a private landlord And of those there was uh of those responses 49 of them uh responded that they only owned owned One to four units There was another 16 percent that Owned between five and ten So you can see that we really did reach down to the private landlord and that was a goal of this particular program to you know provide some Some economic relief So as I said, we we spent 21 main 119 thousand dollars We were asked to come before the senate appropriations committee Last thursday about this particular program and they asked uh Asked us at that time about the program and we informed them that We have a 1500 applications currently that we are unable to fund and It appears that that is about 2.8 million dollars. So Um, I think there may be some activity on that this week Uh, it sounded like the the committee was going to move that request forward Uh, what that would enable us to do is to uh process the remaining applications as We cut the uh cut the application off on december 11th Because at that time Uh, there was no extension of the program. So we needed to Uh and process those applications because we were we had a december 20th Deadline looming on us to return any money That we hadn't spent to the agency of the administration so Richard I'm sorry How much were you spending in the last couple of months per month on the program? Uh, I can tell you the uh, the average payment Uh, was about 2000 a little over 2000 hours was the average payment that was made to a landlord uh I can Shuffle some paper here and uh, I'm just trying to get at how much money You need until um Let's say town meeting day till we can get a budget investment and what signed by the governor Uh to to come up with an appropriate amount That gives you cover For the how long you need it for So I I think you're thinking a different track than maybe that I was uh was approaching I was thinking that we would close out this particular program senator uh By requesting additional 2.8 million dollars that would that would uh get clear of the applications that we have here and then we would Uh look to the new program That the state remand will be receiving the 200 million dollars that will be For a small state minimum for remand and we would use that new program uh For future You know But wouldn't that lead to uh A gap I mean aren't you all things being equal? Wouldn't you need money in the month of january? to help pay back rent and By the time you get that kind that money and it may be March or april That is that is true senator, uh, but uh, that would mean that we would have to open up and start taking applications again Because we can only process what we have in house right now So that would mean that would you know a continuation of the current program uh using CRF funds, I believe Right, you know, I want to I want to think outside the box here. I mean We know there's going to be a ton of money for back rent Why should we artificially stop the program and start it up? Why can't we figure out a way to keep it going? Yeah, and may I tag on to that mr. Chair? Yes, go ahead Uh, I'd also love to get a sense of your understanding of the timing of the 200 million because it does strike me once we've set up a program That there's no reason to artificially end it that we could continue to fund that aspect of it Uh with these new dollars. So I guess the one of the questions is when are we seeing seeing those 200 million dollars? I don't have an exact date on that and I think uh, commissioner Hanford Probably has a better understanding of that. Uh, my understanding is that uh The agency of administration submitted the request, um I think it was last monday or maybe it was a monday before um, and that A large percentage of that money will start flowing into the state at that time I was on an impression it was like 30 days that the vermont could start receiving some of that money And then there's uh Then there's going to be a time period to actually set up a new program because the new rules and regulations the new program are just, uh I don't want to be discouraging but they we saw some We saw the current treasuries uh FAQs yesterday coming out and uh It's going to really slow down the processing of the applications. Uh, sadly because uh, they're running it very close to what I had a federal rental assistance program, uh, would be where we would need to verify income and and uh, and And determine that it was covet related, you know, and there's this current program we as as you know You gave us a fair amount of flexibility We were able to go back prior to march 31st to landlords To because as I said, this was a public health and no one wanted to see anyone Loser lose their housing or become homeless So we had a lot of flexibility that flexibility is not going to be there with the new program At least currently under the current Uh outgoing treasurers Determination, uh, we're all hopeful that in the next few weeks uh, we may see, uh Whatever uh flexibility that the new administration may have I mean the act is the act, uh, which is the guardrails For spending the money I'm not sure how much flexibility a new administration will have with that Uh, because uh, most of it appears statutory to me So that so it would appear that they would need to go back and And get an amendment to this act to make changes. I mean, we originally thought there would be uh Some flexibility, uh Not as much as the current program, but now it's it seems I just I don't want to Really be, uh, you know, really negative on it. But right now, uh, that's that's the way I feel is because Of what I saw yesterday. It's it's going to take a longer to process this The required documentation as you know, uh vermont, uh Has challenges with internet and broadband and a lot of the folks that we serve lower income households don't have access to good Good service Or you know have to go to a local library, you know to try to submit information And that that that will be a challenge Under the old program that were just wrapped up, uh you know, it was Self-certification on on most of the documents that we needed So I would have to you know, think about this and you know talk with with folks Senator to see if there's a way to to to move this forward under the current current program, but um I'm not seeing that right now. So but I would certainly delve into that for you. Okay. Uh, so I I guess One question I have there has been talk of 50 million or 10 million dollars Going forward that would have been under the new program. Yes I had asked the center appropriations get, uh Well, they the center appropriations committee brought that up and uh, they you know, basically we're uh looking to see If I had any guidance for their committee And I asked them, uh based upon what we spent on this program 45 million For six months. I thought it was a reasonable request to ask for 50 million as a placeholder and then I Have heard that there was another number uh Of 10 million that had been uh projected But uh, I can tell you that's that's probably not enough money for us to set up the new program because We're looking at a new total new platform To process the applications And that's close to 500 000 dollars And last year if you recall, uh, we were appropriated Uh, well Through accd we received Looks like 875 000 dollars to cover our staff costs For this current program this program appears to be much more expensive to To administer we've been Kathleen and I have been on many national conference calls listening to other states as to what They're anticipating And uh, so we've reached out to some vendors and we're having those conversations. We're we're hoping to be Uh ready to go but 10 million dollars. Uh, I don't think we'll cover the uh administrative costs because We believe we're going to need to work with other entities Not only landowners associations and and vermont league lead, but I think we will need to work with Would uh, you know advocates for the elderly Advocates for low-income households to help them prepare the applications to submit it because there's so much documentation that will be needed and uh, I don't think I don't think uh Richard that I mean we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves. I don't think People have in any way come down as to what the amount that's needed for the program I don't think the 10 million dollars to the extent that's been suggested In any way represents the total program costs. It's just a placeholder To move the program forward. We have several vehicles like the budget adjustment act and the budget itself to put more money in to get the The number correctly, so I wouldn't be concerned that people are short changing this program, but um In terms of the 2.8 you're saying that that's to take care of people's back rent For since you shut the program off and through december 30th, and that's the only um Money you could ask for essentially right now out of the old cares funding you couldn't Pay with the extension that was given Uh and spending the money you still can't Pay for january rent for instance for anybody So this would cover the uh all the application as I mentioned we uh The program was terminated on december 11th So the applications i'm referring to are the ones that we have in the house That we're received by that deadline Uh, it does not include monies going forward from december 11th to the 31st But could that be could that be paid for with cares funding? That's another question. I think that would have to be answered by uh, commissioner handford Because we understood there was uh restrictions I don't know if those have gone away, but there were restrictions about paying january rent We were able to pay that uh some january rent for Tenants that were forced to move for whatever reason. We were able as long as I'd entered into a lease prior to december 31st for the first of January we're to make payments on their behalf I'm not sure if we can continue that into january now because of the new program But we certainly can we can find that out. So we we do have uh, josh on our agenda today. I believe senator rome um I think richard started to answer my question, but I was just struck um When I heard about the utility bill Program and forgiveness there that you know, people had to kind of fill out a form And so like for example in burlington electric. There was only 20 uptake So just trying to get a sense of you know, people are so underwater and so burdened right now It sounds like you can just do this without much paperwork or Ways that this could get stopped up and people could not get the help you can just sort of apply this to their What's owed or how much do people need to participate? Are you talking senator? Are you talking about the current program or the future program? I guess both, you know, has has there been barriers that you'd like to see addressed in the new program that come from the federal government Well, the new program is a lot of barriers, uh, you know, it's and it's going to be very complicated for for No matter what income level you're it's still going to be complicated There will be restrictions on the use of the the future funds. It has to be for At incomes at or below 80 of medium income It also has to be a preference towards 50 medium Of income or below. So, you know, the means testing is will take time We're looking hopefully, you know, uh, that we may be able to And you folks may be able to help us out Because we're going to need information In order to process these new applications with this this new million this 200 million dollars that's coming in And uh, whatever portion we we may receive of that So, you know, we currently have some, uh Memorandums of understanding with department of labor, you know, uh, you know for our federal rental assistance program We also have a memorandum of understanding with agency of human service. So we can Again with our section eight voucher program so we can Verify eligibility verify in income fairly quickly Part of this is also the new program they want to they want verification of The 2020 income And that's going to be difficult, uh, because many people That are very on low income don't even submit a tax form and And also the filing date of, you know, obviously a april 15. So those are look like huge delays to us right now And uh, and also very complicated to get that information. So that's why I think What the funding that we would get would increase would have What I would propose would incur would involve other agencies Uh, to help us get this to package up applications to get them in And then we would compensate those agencies On their behalf if under this current program, if you remember you actually broke that out a little bit differently agency human services Received direct allocation and then the accd received Fundings, you know for this particular program also for the landlords association From on housing finance agency received a portion of that as well and there was money set aside for the Department of Housing Community Affairs to administer a rental rehab program So i'm not sure if I answer your question senator or just Probably I'm just uh, no it's helpful, you know, just uh You know, you're seeing my personal reflections on on after seeing these Guidelines yesterday, so right it It just looks like a huge burden Administrative burden overlay on a program that you had designed that got money out the door fast with modest Administrative overlay and it's just it's so frustrating to see the feds uh burden this with with these additions, but We'll hope the treasury guidance changes Into course on the on the other hand It's not unusual to see Subsidy programs mean tested And i'm wondering whether There's a part of me that says there's people who are lower income have greater needs here obviously and To target the money to those folks So i'm wondering whether you have any evidence in terms of your metrics or whatever Of what the income distribution might be or anecdotally what you see in the existing program Have people who have clearly could have afforded their rent Come and taken resources Perhaps some other people who needed it more in your program. We certainly uh, I believe we'll be able to document that for you we're currently working on Finalizing this report and there'll be a lot of graphs to show it to you, but I can tell you From what we were seeing is uh, these are low-income households that were receiving this benefit No doubt about it And and mr. Chair from all all we've heard in our housing community that that there's Huge need For that next bump up. I mean that next group up. I mean Completely agree with you on on on low income Our lowest income households, but there's been huge pressure on that next group of Of of still what one would consider low income. It just isn't as low as this threshold that's been set by the feds My other concern centers Is with this new program there's these deadlines that 65% of this money has to be spent, but that's end of september right and therefore I'm Who are looking at the other particular programs and I I'm I'm assuming that you folks will be as well to see if there's other ways to chunk out big portions of this appropriation and Possibly could use be used for you know bumping up, uh, you know the tan of supports for housing also You know finding a way to use this money to support, you know the over 2000 homeless folks that we still have in motels I know there's been programs for vouchers to help the homeless But I think you will probably if you haven't already heard testimony People are struggling to use the vouchers even if they have the voucher As you know, we have a huge lack of affordable housing here in vermont and Unfortunately at this particular program That is coming in really and doesn't look like it's going to be able to do much for for that situation looking ahead you know to the The current President elect I think for a few more minutes It has proposed a substantial amount of money as you know a 1.9 trillion dollar budget In that there is a proposal for additional vouchers Again, uh, that's good. That's I think it that goes a long ways to support permanent affordable housing housing because we We want to say housing is already uses its vouchers And many different creative ways, but we also use them for what we call project based vouchers and we've been successful in using working with our for-profit developers and non-profit developers to use those project based vouchers and and uh In coordination with the Vermont housing finance agencies low-income housing tax credit program and we've created a lot of Really a deep affordable housing using those for very low-income households that normally probably wouldn't get into that type of housing because without rental assistance Even at the low-income housing tax credit rent many of them are not able to pay the basic rent for the unit. So We are looking forward to that as but as you know, that has a long ways to go But it does contain 28 billion for 500,000 new housing choice vouchers Uh, it also contains some legal aid resources and other rent protections to help renters avoid evictions It's uh, his his proposal Has a three billions emergency solution grants to help prevent and respond to outbreaks Uh amongst those that are experiencing homelessness And there's 44 billion dollars for the national housing trust fund. So you know, who knows what's going to happen, but It it looks encouraging, but we all know that It's got a long ways to go before we'll see that money so my My goal here for this committee is for us to be an integral part of the decision making and try and anticipate the kinds of challenges we had Last time around where money had to go out the door so fast that we had to give so much discretion to the administration Not only on housing, but an economic recovery and we may find ourselves in that situation as well, but Richard has Sent me I don't know 10 days ago or something A list similar to some of the stuff He's just saying of all these creative ideas of how we might Be able to spend this money. I mean 200 million dollars is a lot of money It sounds like we're going to double that with the biden proposal So what i'm going to ask josh hanford to do is to sort of convene a group if he doesn't already have one And keep us in writing informed on a weekly basis of all the ideas you're considering and Um, the guidelines you're getting from the federal government So we don't have to keep having you back Every week to know what's going on So when the time comes to make a decision to design this program The five members of this committee can have some input on what that looks like and what the guard rails are around those programs So we just don't get stuck and say all right do whatever you can do and I don't I'd like not to be in that Situation that's not the way the legislature should function. So Let me uh, I appreciate your time richard. We've got a couple more witnesses before our next break Let me turn it over to Jean and Is it gene or john? Just be muted Uh, it's gene gene marie Gene thank you once again for being here. Um So i'm interested in your perspective on how uh, the program has worked and i'm specifically interested in knowing how it went with the agreements and protections against rent increases and evictions that came along with landlords getting this background paid Um, thank you For the record, I am gene murray. I'm a staff attorney at vermont legal aid Um, I've been at vermont legal aid For 23 years And have worked since the last time we met on this program as well as the eviction moratorium And so I want to thank this committee for the support um that came for housing issues That allowed us to basically keep people housed in vermont During these last six months One of the things that I I want to say is that This rental housing stabilization program under h966 Was enacted on july 2nd and was taking applications on july 13th and That meant that vermont state housing authority had to immediately Gear up create an application start figuring out how to process applications and then They have been working Incredibly long hours Very hard very focused very concentrated for the last six months in order to process the applications and Take applications that are really going to amount to 25 million dollars. That's been a tremendous amount of work and they've worked Very hard. So if I were thinking about what to do With new money, I would start now Um, I think angela would agree with me vermont legal aid needed to staff up in order to do its part That takes a little bit of time the staff that we had through december 30th Because we couldn't promise them That there would be a program after december 30th. They've moved on We we will have to rehire to do our parts We also need to be earlier in the effort Outreach effort to get to community agencies and train them about what the New program will be so that they will be available to help us. So When we're talking about what Is needed now In addition to paying off the pending applications, we need to really start trying to figure out now How vermont state housing authority can staff up vermont legal aid vermont landlords association And the partnership that we put together to be able to distribute the money that we did You asked about how well did this program work to prevent evictions Um Once vermont state housing authority gets its final tally With its spreadsheet we will be we will request Information from the judiciary data from them about pending cases and cases that were pending last march And we'll cross check Because what I think is of the 600 Cases that were eviction cases that were pending last march A number of them became resolved because um the parties accessed the rent payment and One of the things one of the conditions for accessing the rent payment was to agree to uh drop or Or cease or stop any current eviction cases and we believe quite a number of people did that without Lawyers helping them whatever they just got the payment and dropped the case um the other thing I know is that in a Regular year About 150 eviction cases get filed per month The moratorium allows landlords to file cases, but they're filed and then they're stopped right there if you recall So this year Since march Instead of 150 cases a month being filed only About 50 actually less than that cases per month statewide got filed so new evictions Were very much slowed by the possibility of landlords getting payments um because about 70 75 of all eviction cases are for non-payment and once you take that Away, um, then there's no need for an eviction case so We do think that Being able to have rent paid really reduced the number of eviction cases in the court We want to be able to do that cross-check thing Once we get all the final data in so that we can actually Give numbers In terms of Slowing rent increases The the provision of the rental housing stabilization program said Had the landlords promising not to increase the rent before january 1st And I think that basically worked um We got a lot of applications in in the last two months Richard, uh I don't know if you said this but you got a thousand applications in in the last two days so um The prohibition against increasing the rent not increasing the rent until january 1st became less and less important um I think My written testimony I start from what did we learn that we didn't know one thing is we I learned which was a revelation for me is that Landlords and tenants once the financial tension is taken away They can really work very well together. They are supportive of each other They work together in this crisis to keep people housed in a float The other thing that became that was revealed to me is there are a lot of landlords Who financially carry their tenants? through the year I I more or less realized that before um Because a lot of times At tax time when tenants are getting their tax refund and the earned income tax credit They go back and pay a few months rent And there are there are several occasions Well, that is one uh during the year and in between landlords carry tenants We tend to think about problems in landlord tenant law as Cats and dogs they're fighting all the time But as a matter of fact this experience proved that that's not true that landlords and tenants The majority of them cooperate all the time um I have studied the the new um statute Coming from the federal government And one of the problems is going to be The delay so As richard was saying that the That statute says That if by december 65 percent of the 200 million isn't committed Then The secretary of the treasury can take it back and and send it to states where it is committed I don't know whether or not it's possible to spend 200 million dollars on back rent between now and september, but I do know it will be a lot harder Given that we won't even be able to start doing that For now a month or two And so again, I guess the thing that I want to reiterate is If we can begin to understand in advance what it's going to take administratively to run the program And start doing that now even before we get the dollars to spend Giving rent and utility money out um I think Can I ask a couple of questions? Um, sure In terms of outreach on this program, uh Do you think it in in the low-income community? It was widely Known that this benefit Was out there. That's One question what the take-up rate Might be And how does the program work in terms of if somebody applied in july And got their back rent paid Can they keep applying monthly and every month get their month? Let the rent go in a rears for a month and put another application in and get another Months rent those are two questions I have Yeah, so for the program we just finished the one that ended december 30th um re application was allowed and we also said that um The program said that rent had to be in a rears in order to apply um So In other words, if your rent is due on september 1st, you can apply for september's rent on september 5th That nuance. I don't know how well it was known. Um, I do know that many tenants and landlords applied more than once and Sometimes it was sort of the That that people hadn't really figured out the best scheme for applying And so could have gotten more money from the program, but didn't because of the dates that they were applying um, the new program will be allowed to Pay rent in advance so it won't need to be in a rears in order to be eligible for the program Uh, the person the tenant household applying will need to show that they have the financial need um, and some other Things that need to show And I can't really say enough how much different that will be administratively than what we Just did uh Alex senator Clarkson before you go senator Clarkson uh I'd like you to give some thought and Maybe some investigation It sounds like we're we may benefit significantly for some bridge funding to get the next program up and running quickly and One area that I was exploring last year, which I'm I didn't make any headway, but I think it's still fertile ground is that We have like 11 or nine million dollars in the rent a rebate program That I can't imagine Is going to have as much demand on it Given the 25 million dollars that has been put in to help people pay their rent and their very similar population so there may be some excess General funds, I think they go to the ed fund But the ed fund is now seeing an infusion of money that we might be able to Take or borrow from to jumpstart some of the work you're talking about So I think we should look at that and you represent people that probably Apply to both programs And I'm wondering if you could find out whether there's less pressure on the on the rent a rebate program now that people have far less rent to pay so That's something you don't have to answer that now But you know any kind of exploration you can do on that would be helpful senator Clarkson You're muted. You're muted I'm pulling us to rock him We gotta get rid of that rid of that refrain, please It's endearing. Yeah, but you do it just as much as he does so it's not fair I'm trying so hard to mute myself because as you all know those of you who I work with the temptation to Leap into the conversation is very hard to respect To be really good. I actually don't mind the tag. It is endearing Anyway, the the idea that rent can be paid prospectively is one that's possibly very attractive given How much money we're getting and the question I have for you is as we go into these discussions with treasury is like how far in advance could we be paying rent and could Could it be like a whole year or two years or Or whatever. I mean it would be I mean that may be part of the creative solution that we look at just Saying and the other tag. I'd like to put just like senator sorat can just put that tag in Um about the rental rebate program I'd like to put in the tag for another conversation about challenges within our eviction stays because all of us as senators have faced nagging Challenges with with rental situations that are unhealthy And and and are violating the sort of spirit of the stay And I'd like to put a stake in the ground for that conversation I know angela has been working really hard on a lot of these with landlords I hear great things about working and I've also gotten people from Jeans, so we're we're getting it from both sides and would love that conversation to continue To for us to have that conversation a little later So yeah In answer to what the new federal law seems to be able to say is that Rent can be paid for 12 months and up to 15 months if the State determines the need for doing that, but it must only be granted in three-month increments and on top of that if the way the person proved their financial eligibility For the grant in the first place was based on their current income as opposed to their whole previous 2020 income Then every three months that group of people is going to have to verify Their income as well as their need for the next three months So everybody in the program has to verify that they need the program for another three months And a percentage of those people are also going to have to financially verify every three months Which is why it is going to be such a huge administrative burden, but The program could Give a subsidy You know a conceptually a subsidy for 12 months But the people who are receiving it would need to check in fairly regularly and that it's going to take a lot of staff to do that Um Could we I think i'm going to let angela talk about the moratorium and and and how she might see it I don't always entirely agree with um Angela, uh, I do think that the mediation program which we started fairly late Um can go a long way to solving some of those issues short of needing to change the moratorium And yeah Could we uh, are we able to It may be too early to tell and maybe a legal question, but are we able to add provisions to the federal Outline like for instance, if we wanted to continue the requirement of no rent increases for Families or landlords that take advantage of this new tranche of money Would we be able to add something like that on to our program requirements? Yeah, from my point of view our program that we put together for rental housing stabilization program had a number of tenant protections in it including the don't raise the rent and cease evictions and And we also said we didn't want to spend money on places that had life safety issues and Really were in dire need of repair And so this statute doesn't have Tenant protections like that in it it hints at them. It says that you could be at risk of homelessness because of health and safety issues, so But it doesn't require those tenant protections, but I would certainly advocate for there to be tenant protections In this process One of the things that's The last program required in order for the landlord to get 100% of the rent that the landlord was owed the tenant and the landlord had to apply together Or looking at it the other way around in order for the tenant to get 100% of what they owed paid The landlord and the tenant had to apply together The new program is really based on the tenant household application And all the landlord has to do is cooperate with receiving the money And even if they don't cooperate The money can be paid to the tenant household to pay the the rent or the utility bill so I don't know how much it's going to be about being able to make landlords promise to do certain things but It seems like That Because it's about housing We could make the program aware of repair issues and things like that my fantasy is being able to use those other housing expenses that Is in the federal statute hasn't been Defined yet by the secretary of the treasury To make repairs. I would love to see that money available to make repairs to keep units online Suffice it to say there are members of this community that share that fantasy So we're going to move on to Angela's who only have a few minutes. Thank you very much, Jean Angela, I know you weren't Thrilled with all the provisions in the eviction moratorium because you wanted some guarantee of monies But you stayed with us and I think you were justly rewarded And it worked out so give us any thoughts you might have in five minutes or so if you could Absolutely Thank you chair for the record. My name is Angela Zekowski. I'm the director of the vermont landlords association I'm also practicing attorney and I represent landlords around the state of vermont primarily in eviction type proceedings I think What I have not heard my other two Witnesses this morning Talk about is The collaboration and cooperation Um, it's it's sort of an unprecedented level that we saw between Tenant advocates landlord advocates the state vermont state housing authority Sanders rock and getting to your point. We have been meeting weekly since June maybe About this program so myself Jean Murray wendy morgan from legal aid folks from the administration The folks from vermont state housing authority and that's part of the reason why we have seen some of these additions and changes to the program As it's progressed because we were able to by having those weekly meetings See areas that needed to be addressed Look to whether within the authorizing legislation we could develop new avenues to the program and When we were given the okay, did it? So the mediation program is actually one of those Concepts that sort of came out of this weekly meeting of the stakeholders As a way to deal with some of the impacts and effects of the eviction moratorium And what the mediation program did was pay for professional mediators Up to three thousand dollars of mediation costs For landlord and tenant disputes It we didn't require that there was a pending eviction case And so it just we just needed a landlord and tenant to say we're having an issue and we'd like somebody to come help us resolve those those issues We didn't launch the program until the middle of october So this was a very late to the game type of program We did get eight applications in They all came in late in november and into december So it you know, again, it's that lead time that we're talking about With wanting to have some funds allocated now So we can start developing a new program because we know with anything there is time It takes time to get programs up off the ground and to get the word out that these programs are available Of those eight applications for mediation Six actually managed to mediate Before the deadline at the end of december Four of them completely resolved um One was a partial resolution and one Did not resolve though that mediation happened on december 28th, and I think if we would have had more time it may have And Folks would have had additional resources our hsp still being available to them It is possible that it could have resolved as well The average cost for mediation was a thousand dollars Um, so it was a relatively low Cost way to help or just have one more avenue for folks to Have their issues addressed Um, I feel like they're being heard. I feel like they're having some sort of process Um, so that's actually one program that we would encourage the legislature to look at Continuing to fund because I think it will help offset some of the challenges of the eviction moratorium Okay, thank you um So that money for the mediation has come out of your 250 000 dollars Correct, and uh the accd actually recaptured 85 000 of that 250 000 Because we were not going to be able to use it by the end of the year If we would have had an extension by the federal government sooner that would have been fantastic So Math wise that we used 100 and whatever 250 minus 85 Okay, um I just I sort of never got the question answers and it's up for anybody in terms of the penetration rate Uh, how aware of the program Um I mean having it be a joint landlord tenant program. I imagine that they're Uh in the landlord community. There are a lot of people that Tell their tenants about it and Get the application going Yada yada, but uh, I'm just wondering if there are a bunch of Tenants out there that could use this help that are unaware of the program I mean, it's entirely possible. Um, we Did advertising this actually the state judiciary system sent out Information to I think pretty much every pending eviction case about the various programs to the attorneys or parties of record Um, you know, we did outreach. I know I did seminars with cvoeo about these programs There were facebook ad campaigns by my organization by other organizations Vermont state housing authority did front porch forum Information out to the entire state. There were radio advertisements There was a video that was created and then translated into seven or eight languages about the program So we've really tried hard to cover as many avenues as possible to reach everybody. Is it perfect? No Short of a direct mail to every person in the state of vermont It it's challenging, but I think we've covered as many bases as we could Um, can I just jump in because I I really think that even though we did all of that vermont legal aid We did town halls on youtube and things like that That it would help if we um, did essentially road shows to service organizations for um, like Like the community action programs and the uh councils on aging and things like that because um Everyone and it seemed surprising to us every once in a while You'd hear about somebody who was saying oh, I didn't hear about this before and sad stories Like I put all my rent on my credit card and now you're telling me I can't get money to pay off my credit card I can only get money from rent. So that kind of so um I think Being able to really do a campaign and go to service organizations and And things like that is something that I I want to do better in this coming year Because as I say it was a real rush vermont legal aid got lots of phone calls vermont landlords association got lots of phone calls vermont state housing authority got lots of phone calls I mean we added staff to answer the phone and and so did angela And so did vermont state housing authority and still there were always more phone calls and people that were trying to find out information so I think we could do better Senator arcs very very briefly because we need to take a break And we gotta Is this one of the creative ways we could continue to continue this program? With some of our new stimulus dollars some of the 200 million I don't even know what we're really calling that money But stimulus too Encumbered stimulus too It strikes me that because it's about rental and and mediation that it might fall under the creative umbrella of that It's I think we're still waiting to get some guidance on that. It was part of A series of questions that have been posed or are being posed by the state To treasury to find out these answers because we're trying to figure out how many of our existing programs we can cover under this new money The new guidance that came out are Making it harder and harder for us to think that we're going to be able to do as much But don't worry. We got a creative group. We've all got our thinking hats on Thank you very much everybody. It's been very informative and we're catching up and great work Under tough circumstances So we're going to break till 10 55 We'll hear from mora for 20 minutes or 25 minutes to take 10 minutes to Talk about and vote out. Hopefully uh, the deed restriction bill s 14 Um, so we'll see you in eight minutes. Thank you I'm sorry. I guess my video wasn't on Nathan. Are we ready to go? We are Thank you Okay, we're gonna move on to the home mortgage assistance program with mora and more we've been asking people to give us an update on what's been happening since we adjourned and uh going forward whether you have thoughts as to What we can do to continue to address the need the pandemic hasn't stopped Uh, the program may have stopped. Hopefully we can get it up and going in some form. We've got a lot of housing money coming our way. It's Restricted may not allow for this. Actually, I thought I'd may have read that there may be some mortgage assistance monies in the new Bill as well or in the biden proposal. So I'm going to give the Floor over to you. We're probably going to stop it In about 20 minutes if that's okay That is more than okay. I have a very hard stop at 11 30. So thank you. My name is mora collins I am the director of the vermont housing finance agency And I'm joined today by my colleague chad simmons Um center ballant may remember chad from his windham county brettelboro days He's keeping it real windham county represent Chad so nice to see you so nice to see you And um, he currently is a washington county resident But um, most importantly is now uh vhfa's newest employee helping me out with Covering the state house. So um, you will see him more when we are back In the building. I wanted you to have a face to put with the name And he's our new housing policy and engagement specialist. Um, right Welcome welcome won't surprise any of you Center sir, I can answer your question. Yes, I do have thoughts on all of those matters I have thoughts on just about anything housing related. Why am I not surprised? Exactly. Um, in fact, I was hoping I could just take Just a moment or two To reiterate what and support what my you've heard from my colleagues already just to make sure it's clear The endorsement vhfa has for what you've already heard um vhcb Did incredible work allocating an entire year's worth of appropriations In six months on top of what they normally had to Appropriate, I mean that was that was a huge effort and it's really going to help You know, I love my data and I can't wait to see how this is going to help the housing market and make a difference in our homeless system long term and It was really to say it was too bad doesn't do it justice. It was really problematic that the federal funding The deadline that limited vermont's ability to be even more transformational But we should be proud of what vermont did because vermont and california are the only two states that i've heard of that use capital to address homelessness in the way that is going to be systemic and really Create housing opportunities permanently for these households So I know that the needs have risen since then but it would be if we only focus on those unmet needs We are really not doing justice to what has been accomplished um similarly vsha with the administration of a huge 20 million dollar rental assistance program Gene mentioned how they stood up a program within 10 days of the lobbying past Again, I'm in this national network with peers of state housing agencies across the country and most states had a much harder time moving a fraction of the money vsha did because of the complications that those states inadvertently put up as barriers that they thought were well-intentioned But as the months dragged on and no one was applying and there were problematic forms and certifications and documents those best intentions to means test or look for documents really Harmed their ability to Get that assistance out and I believe that those legislators then heard from those constituents almost like a DOL unemployment claim problem that we had here in vermont They were getting that on the housing assistance side because there were just too many clogs in the system to help people when they need it most so I hope that serves as a lesson for the future as we look at this 200 million dollars that Vermont the state and we as trusted partners can be trusted to Deliver amazing results, which I'm going to tell you about with the mortgage assistance in just second That meet the legislative intent because we talked to you all a lot and we know what you want We know what where your priorities are and I believe every time exceed expectations. So, um I really hope that this 200 million dollars that we keep the spirit around creativity and pushing the envelope and Really thinking about what we can do with this and not Put too many additional restrictions on what that looks like because the u.s. Treasury is richard referenced is already going to impose Way too many rules. This is going to be problematic when It comes out that there's 200 million dollars that we can't deliver in vermont fully because of federal rules yet again I i'm okay center clerks. I don't know if center soran can see Go ahead Thanks Maura, thank you. I I agree. We need to applaud this incredible partnership That's been so productive for vermont and vermont vermont's housing world Is your group of national? of vermont Is your national group also pushing on treasury to uh To sort of open up the flexibility because I know you're part of the housing partners, but you also have your own financing powerhouse group I hope you're also pushing because you lend a different kind of credibility And a different voice. Yeah, and um Rest assured I won't go into all the details of what's happening Not only did I just got get on that national board that is doing that work, but um, we Uh, there were a lot of state housing finance agency officials who are now in the biden harris administration They're having direct conversations with the new treasury administration and That those people are all friends So they are listening and we are hopeful that um, some things may shake loose But obviously we still haven't had a transition yet. We have another hour to go So I don't want to over a promise, but the advocacy efforts are robust and in line with what you've been hearing from the vermont partners um So you asked for an overview of the map program the mortgage assistance program that vhfa was trusted with by the legislature Um, we had an initial award of five million dollars from you all In november it looked like maybe um, there weren't going to be enough applications to use all that So we turned back three hundred thousand dollars Josh handford tells me that that was used for the red tag fuel assistance program that you know has been a real need in the state So, um, I appreciate that our money has been used for housing related Use, uh, I am confident that if the deadline had been extended earlier and um If we could have kept our applications open that there's no question that the need will continue and I can speak to that in a minute Of the 4.7 million dollars that we have for the program. We have cut checks delivered everything is done for all but 72 thousand dollars of it that 72 thousand dollars is um, Just the the scrappy tail end of the amount and we have already gotten an extension from the state for three months to Go back and revisit households who did not receive the full six months of assistance to check with them to see if they need More assistance to get them up to that six month amount We've prioritized applicants with the lowest incomes in doing that so that we know we're still matching your intent to serve Those who need this program the most Um, that is in process right now and and we only have Three months to cut those checks As a reminder the money that we distributed went directly to the loan servicers not to the homeowner Um, so that we know that for the 638 households that we were able to serve that we have prevented for closure for those households because there are rules that if A servicer receives money as a payment on behalf of a homeowner from the homeowner or Um from a program like this that even if they were in some level of a foreclosure filing That all gets stopped and they have to start the process over again So not only do we have the foreclosure moratorium? Obviously that the governor keeps extending but also this program has prevented foreclosure and that is critical um because 65 percent of the people assisted with this program Had some kind of forbearance agreement But the remainder did not the other 35 percent did not have a forbearance agreement And so if they were several months in arrears They were at risk of foreclosure once the moratoriums left both state and federal And even for the 65 percent of homeowners that have some kind of forbearance agreement Not all forbearance agreements are uniform. They all look a little different And so sometimes A lender will allow a homeowner to skip making mortgage payments. And then once the payments restart Then the loan amount is the monthly payment is modified and there's a short time window when a Homeowner would have to pay back those missed mortgage payments Other and what I hope is much more common and what I expect to see what vhfay does what I believe most of our vermont banks do Is instead take those missed mortgage payments and tack them on to the end of the mortgage just extending the term So if my mortgage were to end in 2047 maybe it'll now end in 2048 Frankly as long as my monthly payment doesn't change that does solve my problem right now And I'm sorry. I have an extra year's payments, but that was an okay program and that would be successful But we don't always know which kind of forbearance agreement a homeowner has and so just having forbearance is not necessarily a An easy pass that this loan won't end up in foreclosure Yep, yeah, um if I couldn't interrupt um, I remember last year you were obviously advocating for more money for this program it sounds like The amount was close to being sufficient that we put in but I'm I'm Questioning if the banks knew about this money, it seems like They would which I'm sure they all did that it would be Uh in their interest to and there was a back mortgage payment It would be their interest to get an application in for that home So does that mean that there were only like 600 odd homeowners in the entire state of Vermont that were in a rear on their mortgages I find that very hard to believe and I'll show you the data that proves why I don't think that's the case. Um I think we need I love behavioral economics And I think we need to be realistic about if you're told that you don't need to make a payment for six months And potentially that could be renewed for up to 12 months Then a lot of people will not apply for assistance because they're thinking Well, I don't need to make a payment Some folks I don't think understand that they may that they definitely will have to make those payments at some point and That those payments could translate into a higher monthly payment once they turn back on Um, so I I think that they're it's another reason why Homeownership education counseling and financial education is so critical is to have to help folks really understand the implications of this I was very surprised. You do remember. I was saying there were 45,000 Vermont mortgaged households That would be eligible under the income limits that we set And so if even 10 of them applied, I would have expected applications closer to 4,000 5,000 um and not the 650 that we got um So I do I do think that the for the Foreclosure moratorium and the forbearances that are available were two tools that also have kept the Um demand for this program lower than what we would have seen if people are not Don't have the fear of foreclosure On them. It's possible that they didn't apply for this kind of assistance thinking that they don't have to worry about But given the acute awareness and sophistication of the banks uh, wouldn't they tell the more the mortgage g um that um Hey, here's some money that can help with your disposable Income going forward Why don't you apply for this Out of loss to did the banks not want to get involved in this unless they absolutely had to No, I wouldn't characterize that. I actually I know with especially our participating lenders and many banks were I I can't tell you how often I would go to a bank's website and see mention of our program on their website um, so I think that there were many Vermont banks and credit unions that um did promote this um It was Amazingly shocking to us since since we're used to working with the same servicers for vhfa loans This was a stretch for us because we had to work with all these servicers that we'd never worked with before and there are a lot of, um Vermonters who have mortgages with National servicers that we had never heard of we were googling to make sure they were legit because they sounded absolutely fraudulent they turned out not to be but um it was incredible the um The range of situations that um Vermonters have with their mortgages and so I I can't say that all the these companies Um did that kind of outreach especially these big national banks that you see most of I mean There are a ton the number one mortgage lender in Vermont is quick in through rocket mortgage. I mean that They're not the Local partner. I can call up the bank president and say hey, can you get your staff to do some marketing to help us out? um So there are some limitations to that kind of outreach that you're speaking to I know that there was not a lender that we reached out to directly That we asked them to do something every single one of them did something put a Put a note in a mailing or put something on their website or the like I also think that we we need to really think about the income targeting of this program We paid about $1,100 a month For the mortgage assistance we paid and most of these homeowners needed more than six months of assistance So we're paying about six grand per homeowner But the median income of who we served was only $3,000 a month. That's 36 $6,000 a year. So this was very much a very low income targeted program So when you look at the universe It would be very fair for higher income households to turn to You me the feds anyone else and say what about a program for us because there are many people who are earning more than 36,000 dollars Did your did your mortgage were your mortgages covered under this program? They were eligible, but we made an ultra conservative decision to not reach out to our borrowers and do the kind of marketing that you're talking about because We were hesitant that it could seem that vhfa was preferencing our own mortgages So our mortgage holders had you know, we're absolutely eligible and somewhere served but for instance, we have a few right now that we're Feeling for because they are more than six months in arrears and we'd like to help them with this $72,000 But it we we have not reopened the program because we it's only we only have a three month extension And so it would not be fair for us to serve our mortgage holders above Another lender's mortgage holders who could be in that same position and did not apply during the open window senator Clarkson so more I I'm trying to understand the income the annual income Scale of the families you helped you telling me that A significant percent of your families Had more had incomes of only 36,000 a year and owned homes Yes, ma'am But we only were looking at the previous 90 days of income prior to them applying you had asked us to not Look at annual income, you know, you kind of didn't care if they used to make $80,000 If they were making zero today you want them to be eligible Right. Got it. Got it. Right. I remember that is a 90 day number that we've annualized Um, which is why I always think about it in terms of monthly But 84 percent of the households we served with this program were more than six months in arrears So what this really shines a light on is that perennial perpetual problem of housing unaffordability it shows That by the time we were cutting checks to folks that They were already several months behind and very much at risk of foreclosure So going forward we only have about five or ten more minutes, but Going forward. Is there anything on the horizon for mortgage assistance? Uh, there is a federal bill um sponsored by Rhode Island senator jack reid who um My national association is strongly supporting this bill and has I'll be reintroduced um in this congress and that would provide mortgage assistance There was a lot of talk that um, the previous stimulus money that has passed was there was a lengthy debate about that would include mortgages as well as rental assistance and uh, so it was very disappointing to see that mortgage assistance was not included and Again, a lot of advocacy around trying to either redefine what has passed already that we've been talking about the 200 million or quickly pass um The the next program I referenced which would include mortgage assistance And how about how about the biden? um That I think that's what she's referring to No, no, I'm speaking of something different the biden proposal um that I've read speaks to Homelessness assistance and some other programs. It still continues to push Mostly for rental assistance, and I have not seen mortgage assistance be called out So again, we're in the national association is in direct conversation um With treasury to push hard for there to be more flexibility. We are not the only state who is frustrated by this In fact, uh, we may be more aggrieved by this decision because we have a higher home ownership rate than many other states Right, so it's extra hard for rural states like vermont um And so but at the same time home ownership rates also track with race and so urban centers as well as States that have higher BIPOC populations um Do see tremendous need for rental assistance Okay So more we have Two minutes if you would I hate to cut you off You know that but if you have anything else you'd like to share with us Uh, let's go further. We could clearly have you back soon. Uh, and I hope you're part of this working group that Uh can make creative out of the box recommendations on how to Not give some of this new money back to other states So to the last point I just wanted to make about the success of this program that we're extra proud of Is that every week you've probably seen in my previous reports to the state That we had a website where we were publicly tracking all the applications for our programs So the media policy makers the state Anyone could go and look week to week how much money we had paid out Who was applying where they were from what their demographics were and now that we've closed the program We're very pleased to see we could make adjustments as time went on and we could see oh, we're underserving Rutland a little bit Let's beef up our marketing and that kind of transparency We were proud of and in the end our applicants were younger more racially diverse With larger households lower incomes and more likely to be disabled than the general population and so We really see what we've been able to do here as A win for those underserved Vermonters and VHF was proud to be able to play this role in this pandemic and It's again awkward just put it this way and if I could say it better I would and But it's not coming to me But we we hope we can play a similar role going forward not because the need We're hopeful for continued need but the economic impact of this recession will continue and as foreclosure moratoriums lift nationally as and at some point the state level as Forbearance agreements run out We had a lot of people in vermont and nationally who applied for forbearance when they didn't necessarily need it And they were able to make payments last summer Um But their income had gone down and they went for forbearance. They didn't necessarily need it those That clock is running out now if they do need it more they may not be eligible for that kind of assistance again And so they started a clock, but didn't take advantage of it. They kept making monthly mortgage payments There are concerns that we see in the forecast Which is why we will be pushing hard for the federal government to not only support new mortgage assistance through the feds, but also Look for the kind of sustainable long-term capital solutions that vhcb was talking about where there has long been a push to Increase the amount of federal tax credits Hot appropriations that go to support the creation of affordable rental housing Those are the things that are going to transform our housing market for the long term as we emerge from this Great. Thank you so much more right terrific Okay, folks, uh, we're going to move on to ellen and uh s 14 Ellen, would you like to join us? Hi ellen So, um We took a straw vote on this I've tried I feel somewhat unsuccessfully explained this bill several times. All I can say is that I will Do my best to do you proud on friday and my goal is to keep it under two minutes long in terms of my explanation Unless people have questions I'm not going to try and explain it again Ellen, is there any change from what we straw voted on? That you're aware of at this time. What is the draft number at this point? Um s 14 is still as it was introduced So no changes have been made so in an effort to move this forward very quickly unless people have Questions or comments. I am going to move that our committee vote out favorably s 14 as introduced I would second that okay, uh Can I I don't I see senator brock is not visual senator rom may not be with us uh Senator rom has had to go off to do those international things she was asked to do So can I just see a show of hands? All those in favor of s 14 raise their hand Okay, four zero one And I will report the bill and this afternoon. I'll turn it in to the senate secretary's office and it will be up for Second reading on friday and senator ballon. I hope You will be in a position to move to suspend the rules after that is again. It's a retroactive bill And I have been in touch with the house on this Senator bray has inquired whether he should Look at I told him he does so at his peril, but I'm happy to go in there and explain it to him. So Um, that's where we are and I think we're done by Oh, we're early So we'll I won't be on the floor this afternoon, but we'll see you all tomorrow morning Great. Thank you. This was great