 Welcome everyone, and thank you for joining us for Mechanics Institute online. We're very pleased and honored to welcome you to our program, Old Ways and New Ideas, Drawing Upon Traditional Cultures to Reverse Climate Change, with author Malcolm Margolin, Paul Hawken, and friends, including Michelle DePena from the Pitt River Tribe, Susan Masten from UROC, and Claire Greensfelder, who's going to be our moderator tonight. Tonight's event is cosponsored by Hay Day and also the California Institute for Community Art and Nature, and we're very pleased to welcome those of you who are in our audience from our cosponsors. Before we begin, I'd like to introduce a little bit about Mechanics Institute if you are new to our events. Mechanics Institute was founded in 1854 and we remain one of San Francisco's most vital literary and cultural centers in the heart of San Francisco. We feature a general interest library, an international renowned chess club, ongoing author and literary programs, and a Friday night cinema with film series. Now the library has been opened, so we welcome you back to our building at 57 Post Street, and please see our website milibrary.org for all of the programs and listings, whether it's an author event or a writer's group or the knit club, or anything that you might find of your interest that's happening at Mechanics, some online and some on site. Also, we will have a Q&A, put your questions in the Q&A or the chat, and we will bring up those questions later on in the program. Also, Deep Hanging Out, Wanderings and Wondering Native California is available through heydaybooks.com. This is this wonderful memoir by Malcolm Margillan. Also Paul's book is available. Regeneration is available through your independent bookstore, alexanderbookstore.com, we'll be happy to send a book to you. So, I would like to first introduce our moderator. Claire Greensfelder is the Associate Director of California Institute of Community, Art and Nature. And she's engaged, she has been engaged in climate protection advocacy and collaboration with indigenous peoples in local to global campaigns since the early 1980s. She's participated as a delegate to 13 negotiating sessions for the UN Climate Conference since the preparations for the Rio Earth Summit in 1991. And she's also co-founder of the Women's Global Call for Climate Justice. Claire is currently collaborating with Malcolm to develop innovative and joyful projects and programs to the California Institute for Community, Art and Nature. And we welcome you Claire and everyone on our panel. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Thank you so much Laura. And thank you to the Mechanics Institute for all your efforts to organize this wonderful evening tonight. Before we begin, I just would like to recognize that this meeting is coming to you from the physical locations of all our panelists from unceded lands here in the state of California, including the unceded lands of the coastal Miwok, the Oloni, the Karkin Oloni, the Nisanan, the Miwok, and the Yurok. And we are particularly honored tonight to have the participation of two of our indigenous colleagues from the California Indian tribes, both Sue Mastin from the Yurok tribe and Michelle Apeña from Pitt River. It's just tremendously honoring of Malcolm's work and book to have you with us tonight. And of course we're especially thrilled to have our dear colleague and friend and longtime inspirational writer activist and chronicler of all things that need to be done to make the world a better place. Paul Hawken with his new book. I'd like to. I also will just say that I'm first going to read a welcome statement from Malcolm. Malcolm is really thrilled to see all of you here and we're just bold over that over 300 people registered for this evening. It's really impressive, not just because of the affection and love for these two authors in their books and our tribal members members who are doing incredible work, but also for your concern about climate change and to take a look at what traditional cultures can offer to it. We're very grateful for your interest this evening. I'm going to read to you an opening statement from Malcolm who as many of you know has been suffering from Parkinson's for now almost 15 years, and has made the tough decision tonight to not offer his own opening statement because it might might take a long time in terms of stumbles, but he hopefully will join us in speaking later but he wanted the state opening statement to be smooth. So he wrote it out. And I'm going to offer it to you in in a language like only Malcolm can write. From Malcolm. First, I'd like to thank the Mechanics Institute for sponsoring this evening. They've been supporting heyday books, and me, and now California Institute for Community Art and Nature for some 30 years now and it's so very gratifying. The Mechanics Institute is a unique institution and independent intellectual force with surprising capacity to do things. And I really recommend that the listeners tonight, take a look at their website and join as members. I'm especially pleased to launch my new book deep hanging out at this event. It represents a good part of my life's work. It's a collection of my writing for the last 40 years and recounts my experiences with the California Indian pre contact California had the greatest population density north of Mexico City, and along with it astonishing cultural diversity. There were over 500 independent nations and nearly 100 languages spoken. So really, there was no such thing as a California Indian, each of these groups developed ways of life that were unique to their environment. They inhabited the California deserts and small family groups and traveled widely over the land in search of scarce water. The Chumash lived along the coast of Santa Barbara. Other people who's lived in the fertile Central Valley and the oak woodlands of Sonoma County, some in villages over 1000 people. They live successfully and more or less continuously in these diverse places for thousands of years. They adapted their lives to the land, rather than changing the environment to suit their lifestyles. Each of these groups had accumulated a huge body of knowledge, customs skills and beliefs that comprise a cultural treasure of great magnitude. In the years of living in a single place, the knowledge of how to live well is deeply embedded and reflected in every aspect of their culture in people's direct relationship to the land and their spiritual beliefs, and their economic institutions in their educational systems, and in their customs around warfare trade class structure, etc. Native cultures as diverse as they were and are share all the markers of a healthy society. So here I'm going to read to you from what Malcolm wrote in deep hanging out what he and his friend Jim quay decided and wanted to share were the markers of a healthy society. This is from deep hanging out page 19. And as I read these you can think about how this impacts our relationship to climate change and the relationship of traditional knowledge and indigenous wisdom to climate change. A sustainable relationship with the environment. In a healthy society, the present generation doesn't strip mind the soil, water, forest minerals, leaving the future impoverished and the beauty of the world degraded. In a healthy society, there will be relatively few outcasts. In a healthy society, you will find relatively relative egalitarianism, the gap between those with the most wealth and power, and those with the least should be moderate. And those with the least should feel protected cared for or rewarded in some other way. There should be widespread participation in the arts. There should be moderation or control of individual power. Security attained through networks of family friendships and social reciprocity, rather than through the individual boarding hoarding of goods. And there should be a level of place, the feeling that one lives with emotional attachment to an area that is uniquely beautiful, abundant natural resources, and rich and personal meaning. There should be a place in this place in the world, a sense perhaps embodied in spiritual practice that the individual is a magnificent part of a larger, more abiding universe. It'll be a place where work is done willingly, or at least with a minimum of resentment. And finally, where there is lots of laughter. With that, I'd like to pass it on to Paul to Hawken, who many of you know, as I said earlier is a phenomenal author and has written so many books that have impacted our understanding of the present world and in particular his last two books have been focused on ending and really recovering from the climate crisis. Well, one thing that Malcolm ended with was saying the current cultural revival of native people throughout the country, and throughout the world of the renaissance of leadership action engagement is as exemplified by the work of Sue and Michelle has given us access as a general population in the world to more deep reservoirs of knowledge. How does that reflect in your new book regeneration and ending the climate crisis, our conversation for tonight. Well, thank you very much. I want to say thank you to Malcolm 1000 times over. He's been such an inspiration to me for decades and the inspiration has been what he chose to really write about the way he did it, the gentleness, the kindness, the openness, the respect. As opposed to being with all the respect the expert colonist, which is where we see again and again and again, you know, and especially my gender. And so it's the way he's gone about this and the way he's gone about his life and hey day and so forth is it is a pedagogical to teaching unto itself, you know, and to teaching I've received with great gratitude. And in the constancy of it has been sort of like, not just about whether it may be a compass in my own life. So I just want to acknowledge that Malcolm. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you again. With respect to the phrase you just read I want to go back to that phrase the last sentence. To me, can you read that again because it's it's a very important distinction I want to make here about. Now that indigenous cultures are opening up. Can you read that part again. And what Malcolm said was and then we'll also go to Sue and Michelle for relevant comment that the current revival and Renaissance native peoples and culture throughout the country and I added throughout the world, and it enables us to have access as a culture and society to these deep reservoirs of knowledge that are going to be so essential for addressing the challenge of climate change. The one thing I might say here is access was always there if we had been different people at the settlers and colonists have been different and so it's not as though indigenous people have opened up, you know, after, you know, 400, I mean, just centuries of horrific deracination. It's that the world is coming into a crisis. And I feel like what's happening is that peoples all over including the 5000 indigenous cultures in the world. Are are awakening and asserting their voice in a way that we've never seen before. And partly it's because it's being heard and listened to but same with black and brown and many other cultures. And so I think the legacy of the Eurocentric way of basically raping the world of taking from the world of generating the world of looking at resources as something that you turn into money is has come up, it's up and it's being talked about and it's being seen and it's being felt and it's being experienced. What's interesting to me about indigenous tribes, cultures, nations is the word indigent indigene means original inhabitant. I mean, that's, you know, it's an English word but but it means that the persons in the culture tribes who've been on the land from the beginning from the outset, you know, and, and what I think we have to the treasure that awaits us if we wake up and whoever us is as a really good question I have to think about that one is is an understanding of place. And, and what I think we have sorely mistaken is that indigenous knowledge was knowledge. Okay. Well, it is, but actually it was observational science that was developed over thousands and thousands of years and in observational science is the science of place and the science of place is different than empirical science and empirical science. If you can't repeat it, it's not true. In nature, nothing repeats. So observational science was very much about the recognition and pattern recognition of the complex interactions between people, ecosystems, pollinators, insects, waters, storms, clouds, snow, and these understandings developed over millennia. And they were encoded in the language encoded in the songs encoded in ceremony encoded ritual and so forth. And there was. And so for the white perspective is that they're illiterate. But in fact, they bet they, and I'm going to speak scientifically is because we had no idea how big the hippocampus was indigenous people, their memory was extraordinary, extraordinary memory. And so the fundamental cause of global warming is actually is we don't know where we live. I'm not saying everybody I'm just saying most people don't know where they live. They've never been taught. There's no respect. There's no sense of connection. And so there's this profound disconnection between people with that's what we read about every day is getting worse. There's a profound disconnection between people and the living world. And there's a profound disconnection between nature itself now because of habitat fragmentation is certification poisoning burning deforestation, and all the ways in which we extracted from nature. And so the regeneration of the world is something that is innate to all people, not just indigenous people all people, because all 30 trillion of ourselves regenerate every nanosecond. Or we wouldn't be here and having this conversation. And so regeneration is the default mode of life itself and so forth. And so I think of the may walk, you know, and just a simple little example that I'll stop you know so forth. But you know the, but we called Indian potatoes which is silly. And Lillies is beautiful lilies and Mariposa Lily that were harvested in the late spring. And what they would do is, is a bowl that has three forms and they would take one form and plant to it's like, that's regeneration and not take to implant one and so there, there was embedded in these cultures because the regeneration was the way you carried forward and there was a beautiful quote from Hindu Amiru Ibrahim she's a Chadian pastoralist from the Wododic tribe. And she said yes, we think seven generations ahead no question when we do something. But the reason we do that is because we can also remember what happened for seven generations in the past. And so we'll see both ways. And so we see ourselves as the continuity this to life and the idea of breaking that continuity was anathema is like unthinkable to us as a people, you know, and that is what we do not have in Eurocentric cultures. Thank you, Paul. I want to just comment that was very direct and relevant to the topic but also Hindu Ibrahim is a close friend who has also been truly a significant player in the climate negotiations now for at least a decade and as an inspirational leader from Chad, I believe. Yes, Chad, from Chad in Africa. So thank you for quoting from Hindu. I'd like to pass it on to Sue Mastin who has been just when we talk about regeneration and you mentioned Paul that we're disconnected from the land well if there's someone who is connected to the land. It's Susan Mastin. She has been a leader of locally and nationally here in California, many years ago with the salmon wars struggle over salmon rights and fishing rights up in the northern territories of California but also as president of the National Congress of American Indians. She is a person of the American Indian Film Institute which is where I first met her, and then more recently organizing women's initiatives within the native community, but always connected to her land here in northern California. And Susan I just want to pass it to you to what, what thoughts in reflection of both Malcolm's new book and Paul's emphasis on regeneration. What is your tradition and culture and your own personal experience. Where does it leave you today, thinking about climate change and the future. Well first I just want to say that, you know, I've always appreciated Malcolm's respect for the local tribal communities and the way that he makes sure to interact with the community and to listen and to learn from our people and, and to tell our stories and not to tell our stories from his perspective but to tell our stories through our own words. And so, and that's been the big difference between what he's written about the local people. It's not been what he's written it's been through our words so it's been presented through our own words. in his, in his writings and so I've always appreciated that from him and, unfortunately, I have seen him in different occasions but have just recently gotten to interact with him and, and that's the important, shouldn't at peace about our relationship because I think we would have had a very close bond had we met, you know, 40 years ago and I could have learned and shared much with him over the years and so I regret that we are just becoming close at this late point in our lives because there was much we could have shared. I think that, you know, over the course of my time coming here, I came at a point when that was the salmon wars and it was my uncle's court case that reaffirmed our fishing rights on the Klamath River. And I was actually living in San Francisco at the time I had graduated from Oregon State University and was working in the city and my family was calling me because my uncle's fishing case he was a focal point for arrest for fishing for, you know, they had come into his home in the middle of the night got his family up under gunpoint in their 12 by, you know, 60 trailer looking for fish in the middle of the night and so, you know, I mean are stopping him when he went to jail numerous times for exercising his fishing right and his wife went to jail many times and, you know, nobody faces those kinds of things with felonies for just exercising a right and inherent right and so his Supreme Court case decision, you know, with reaffirming our rights and to be on the river fishing and we had a very low abundance here and so the government and its wisdom decided to close the Indian fishery well the ocean fishery continued to fish and this ocean sport fishery continued to fish and that in river sport fishery was fishing the only people sitting on the banks was the Indian fishery. We had just won a court decision in the highest court in the land and the Indian fishermen couldn't figure out what the heck is going on. The government who is supposed to be who has a trust obligation and responsibility to the fishery and to the to the Indian fishery is not upholding its responsibility. So they protested, and that's what brought the federal agents in full riot gear. They had M 16s that they needed to protect the fish and full riot gear and helmets with shields and they were there to protect the fish and so, you know, it was very intense and my family was extremely worried that my uncle would be killed in the process and so every time they heard the large boats come down because they had row boats, they would hurry to the river so that there could be witnesses in case he was killed. And so they were calling me because I had access to media to please come up and to bring media so that this could be witnessed because we were not getting any publicity. There was only negative publicity about the Indians over harvesting and that, you know, the bumper sticker the day was Canon Indian and save the salmon. And it was very bad and intense situations and so, you know, at that time, they were very fearful for their lives and they did not want to talk to state or federal agents when that ended and it was a difficult time so it was, there is, and it still is alive environmental injustice. And, and I hate to say it but the dollar still does rule it did then and it still does today we see it in in decisions that are made by our government for water and for, and at that time for fish for money. So when there were low populations, we still took I went to meetings where I thought oh easy season. There's not enough fish we're going to fish into the escapement so there will be no fishing because the fish need to go towards escapement. And that's my mindset because that's how we think, you know, escapement first provide for tomorrow we're not going to fish, and there would be. Oh, we're taking fish. And so that's a mindset where I'm thinking, you know, no, no fishing because we have to protect the fish got to protect the fish for today and tomorrow. The other mindset is no, we need to fish we need to take today. You know, there, there is no tomorrow today we need to take the fish. The same with the water today which is, you know, 40 years later, you know, we got to take the water. It doesn't matter about the fish. It doesn't matter about the other resources that depend on the water, we have to take the water up here for the farmers for for the money. It doesn't matter that we have this ecosystem that depends on the water. We need to make this money up here for for this, the agriculture, and so take that. So, when you talk about okay we're paying attention today, because, you know, here we have all these fires, we have hurricanes tornadoes, and we have coven, which are all indicators that the world is terribly out of balance. That we need to wake up and pay attention and address this. And a lot of it has to do with the climate, the climate. And I think that Indigenous knowledge is necessary and I think that if we don't pay attention to those, those values that we have to offer, and I think women and I'm glad to hear that you are part of that women because I think women and Indigenous people because we all want to look for tomorrow and we care about our children and future generations. That we're the ones that are going to step forward to be able to help to create that that change that is necessary to address this imbalance. Coming from our perspective. The creator gave us a responsibility he said here's this world and I provide everything for you. Your responsibility is to take care of it, and to ensure that it's here for future generations. Everything has a purpose and you have to respect each of those things because everything is interconnected. And so you have a respect for each of it because each thing is interconnected independent on each other. And so everything that walks swims crawls flies. Each of that is important and needs to be respected in the same way. So if you have respect for each thing and your decision making and your values system is placed on taking care of and ensuring that it's protected for tomorrow, then you are not going to cause harm for what is your responsibility to care for. I don't know how much you want me to go on because there's other people who need to talk and there's so much to say and so little. Thank you so much. So I'm sorry I was muted that was beautiful and I'm going to follow what you just said with a very brief passage from deep hanging out and then pass it on to Michelle. You know, who speaking about fighters for the land has been so involved with fighting for native peoples rights here in California and other parts of the country. But also is been a big supporter of the campaign to save the West Berkeley shell mound and can share with us the kinds of initiatives that are going and a big as also co chair of the indigenous advisory board for the California Institute for community art nature, playing roles and helping us pull our programs forward, but from deep hanging out. What we now call conservation was an everyday practice of the native people of California embedded in religious belief social structures, good manners, and just every day habit. It was spread so widely over so many cultural practices that is difficult to sum up impossible to define. Yet surely there's a sentence in my colleagues Ruth Roberts article that he references in the book that bears deep thought. And this reference directly with both Susan said and what Paul said about the brodea and the me walk people. And I quote from Ruth Roberts to destroy wildlife for any other reason than to meet his or her need of food would have been as ridiculous a procedure to the native Californian as if we entered our own gardens, or went among our own herds and destroyed them for the share of our prowess as destroyers for the first Europeans who settled in California, the land was a wilderness. It belonged to no one. Its wealth was here for the taking. Certainly too much of that attitude remains today worked into our laws or institutions and our daily habits to native people who have lived here for thousands of years, however, and whose actions shaped the landscape, it was indeed and is a garden, a garden that attended tending and care, and that rewarded such efforts with bountiful food, a sustainable way of life, and an environment of almost unimaginable health, figure and beauty. Michelle opinion, Indigenous rights attorney champion for the land and for your peoples. And Phantom Malcolm Margolin. How do you respond to that. Wow, it's such an amazing concept that is presenting there and it really does tie into, you know, the idea that native knowledge is so important to address climate change because I think it's been touched on. And it's kind of interesting how things work out I happened upon a video by Deloria earlier this morning just by accident, and he was talking about the difference between native and non native people. He was focused on commercialism, which is something that was referenced earlier in Paul's comments in a way that the difference is between, you know, settler ideology and native thinking is commercialism versus in many ways, the versus the other side of it would be giving and or redistribution and and sharing. And for the, that's referenced quite a bit and, and, you know, in mouth and deep hanging out Malcolm talks about where traditional leaders learn how to be leaders, and it's through our creation stories, and the creation stories talk about leaders not having power, but they have a responsibility, and the responsibility is to ensure that everybody is taking care of. And so there's a big element of redistribution in our community and I can't speak for all but in many of California's native communities. And it always I always think of a quote that I've recorded many times of Malcolm's from the Oloni way. A book he wrote many years ago, and the saying of the aloney people was that he wrote of the lonings was to be wealthy was not to have, but to be wealthy was to give. And the idea that there's a giving community or a giving way is part of native people's lives and it and it does reserve resources because it allows for what is available to be shared. And that involves, you know, plants, our animal or foods that come from plants and animals. And I can think of my own family, my great, great, great grandmother on my career side from Southern California. Her role in the community in her tribe was to redistribute and allocate Mesquite. And in the, in pre colonial days, the Coachella Valley was a forest, and we would never imagine it today because it's a desert. And there's just brush and sage, and there's very few mesquite trees but when in my ancestors times there were forests of Mesquite in the Coachella Valley and my grandmother her role was to ensure that she for the Mesquite groves knew what was going on within Mesquite knew which ones were producing seed and the pods, and which ones weren't and which areas could be allocated and what the needs were in the community so that everybody had their share, and nobody had heard no one got to take. They all were given permission to use the resources and that is a big law I think that's a law that is part of most tribal communities and ancient law. And what Sue was talking about with the fishery. They would have I'm sure I'm not your and I can't speak to the specific law but I'm assuming there was laws about use of the fish and who could fish in certain places and at what time and for how long. And we did that to make sure everybody could have something and no one went without. And so the leaders were often them. They would gather wealth, but they gathered it to be distributed to others so they might be the least wealthy person in the tribe at the end of the day because everything they gave, they had they gave away. I think that is our greatest, you know, knowledge or principle in our tribal communities is about giving. And unfortunately that was our greatest weakness. You know it resulted in the loss of our land, the loss of our culture, cultures and our ways of life because we didn't always know when we were giving something that someone was taking it forever. It may have been a temporary gift or a borrowing or sharing of something a basket land access to a river may have been a temporary grant of right of use, but to a non Indian settler, it was another authority to take it. So our giving culture has been transformed into, you know, it was used by a commercialist ideology and so, you know, the great thing is we're still here. And that's what I think is so present in this in Malcolm's book as the native people are still here and it says that a few times about people saying we're still here. But there's a quote in here, and he's talking about Frank Lapina, who is my, my late father in law who passed away a few years ago. And there's a quote in here with this from him that says when there are no more Indians than we will end when the songs and the dances are forgotten and when our language is forgotten and when we do not honor the earth, because we have forgotten all living things on earth are sacred and important than the world we're in. But just before that time we will know the time of emptiness. And, you know, I do feel we're, we're in a little bit of that emptiness, but we do still have our practice our cultures and we do still have our songs. I was just at a tribal event where songs were were sent were song. Funeral rights were given, and we still have our ways. And we do have to really protect them today because we can't give them away anymore. But I do think we're in a period where we can share. And hopefully that sharing can be respected in a way now in today's society I think there's more respect for what we're offering the world than there was in the past when it was just taken. So I do think that there is an opportunity here for our knowledge of sharing and giving to be incorporated in a new society of people open to it. Thank you so much Michelle, that was really quite profound and taking it back to Paul I'm looking to see if there's any questions there. I don't see any Q&A in the, in the chat yet but Paul your book is about ending the climate crisis in one generation and both Michelle and Susan have spoken eloquently about the traditions the ways of life the approach to being on earth that traditional and indigenous peoples have had that that's reinforced the possibility of not only ending the climate crisis but going into more a situation of sustainability on into the future. What are some of the positive solutions that you are seeing and how are you seeing people drawn that from traditional knowledge or from other solutions that you are offering in your new book that are relevant to what we're talking about tonight. Well one thing I'm seeing is I'm wondering why 98% of the world is disengaged from the greatest crisis we've ever faced as a civilization. If we can call ourselves a civilization, I'm not sure that's true but we have civilizations within it and I think it has to do with the way we've spoken it, the way the language we use around it, and the language is even in the introduction how we can reverse climate change that's the last thing we want to reverse the climate is supposed to change. It's perfect climate is always perfect. It's feedback. It's an expression of the atmosphere in the biosphere. We have two words for that. But in fact they're the same thing. One is solid, one is gases, but the earth is one system. And so the way we've talked about it by fighting, tackling, combating using war metaphors, male war metaphors, sports metaphors to describe climate is we're doing exactly the same thing that caused the problem which is we're othering. We're making climate othering. Bill Gates, we're going to fix it, it really? Let me find it, show me. I'm curious, you know, what is it? And so that mindset is, of course, so we've othered other peoples, other civilizations, other cultures, other races, other religions, other ways of life, a whole gender. That was interesting. That's what the Me Too movement was pointing out, Islamophobia more recently and so forth. So we have a language around this that is actually the mental cause, actually the disease, if you will, of thinking, the causes where we are today. And so I think, I mean, the number one teaching that is there for us and so forth is cultures that don't make that distinction, because the distinction doesn't exist. If we say, as a white person, if I say, well, you know, nature, I'm not separate from nature, I just did separate myself from nature in the syntax in my sense, I just did it. And so we have to, and the language that informed the longevity of the tribes and the cultures that we hear are very, very different than English, which is a very explicit language, very useful in many ways, but causes separation. And I think that is the cause for disengagement, because people go, well, I don't know what to do, or I hope somebody does it, or what are we talking about here? And so I think that understanding that, like I say, the climate couldn't be nothing but perfect, because there's an expression of the atmosphere, the biosphere, this planet, this beautiful, holy, sacred place upon which we are blessed to live. And so nature never makes a mistake. We do. So we've had a couple of questions and I'm also going to pass it back to Sue, Michelle, and back to you from the, from the listeners in the audience. One is a very specific question and I can address it myself or Sue and Michelle may be able to fill in the call that there was a question about renewable energy projects on native lands and I know there's quite a few there's a lot of people that Waila Johns and others have worked on various solar and renewable energy projects, it would be people who are interested to know what, what very specific projects do you know of that are taking place on tribal lands. Someone also that was from Annie Moose and then make bealer asked says Paul I love your ideas and wonder how heart seeing with heart fits into the foci of regeneration the six foci. So all the agendas, if we don't stay in our hearts. A high school teacher said, what steps can we take as teachers and urban public schools that are action steps towards consciousness about climate with few resources, and everybody's crazed by just life itself, but we need messages of hope towards and with young minds, and it's hard. If someone said yes with the recording of this panel be available it certainly will. And let's take any or all of those that you wish to adjust, and also just your own comments back to you Sue Mastin. Yeah, so I was just talking to my mom about being on this panel and she goes. It was probably about 40 years ago my grandpa was just looking around going. You know, there's going to be huge fires around here if they don't burn this underbrush like we used to do a long time ago. And so he was talking about how we used to burn cultural burning in our practices to take care of things. We would burn so that our basket materials would be fresh and we would burn so that the feed for the deer and the elk and we would, you know, burn for the berries we would have these cultural burns that kept it from being large fires, but helped for the environment here for the berries for, you know, our basket materials and they were regulated burns that we did on a regular basis. And so the Urocks, our upper reservation began to do this I think about 20 years ago we started to do some cultural burns up river and they are continuing to do those cultural burns on a yearly basis now so that we can control those fires and to, you know, get back to those practices for our gathering sites and to have, you know, those grounds for our wildlife for having better eating conditions so it's been wonderful to see that evolve and I got to play some role in coordinating the community with the tribe and our resources at the tribe to help them be able to do that and to coordinate with the state also because you can't just have these wild burns in the middle of the summer and the fire season and not have some concerns and so now, you know, they have have trained the neighboring tribe and and it's really exciting to see that happen that we've brought that cultural practice back into place and it's getting some, you know, national attention and and being allowing for some revitalization of that practice in other areas and and being looked at by state and national parks as a way to manage within, you know, their park system so that's a wonderful thing to see happen and something that I'm very proud that it came initiative that came from, you know, the community itself as a way to revitalize something that was of our own and a way to take care of our lands again so very exciting for us. Yes, also there are numerous solar projects in Indian country. And for those of you who aren't aware, the largest pockets of energy and untapped energies of course are an Indian country, and I don't know if most of you are aware of that. And I think also for those of you who aren't aware because we are so interconnected with our land and our resources, we are also have a lot of knowledge about what's occurring with with the climate and with the changes with the resources with the water with, you know, the glaciers with species with, you know, with resources, because we on a daily basis see it because we're the gathering or fishing where, you know, we're just utilizing we're out there every day. With those with the resources so we see on a daily basis what's occurring, we see that the runs are the salmon runs are different that the timings are different we see that that the water levels are changing that, you know, we see that the coastal waters are changing and all of those things that other people may not notice because they not connected so closely with the land and the water and its resources and and most all of us, you know, live in those places that you would would see all of those changes that are occurring within nature, more closely and more readily and so that's a key also and just that traditional knowledge and that ancestral knowledge that comes through that we have that is is carried through with us for, you know, all of those since the beginning of time that is invaluable for that that we just have inherent knowledge. And I guess, and as well as living in, you know, on the lands and that connection with the lands is invaluable and if we're if we want to really address what's going on today. It's, it's critical that the peoples, the first peoples of the land be at the table, having those discussions along with, you know, the scientists, and, you know, looking for how we, how we address things in this day and ways that we can find solutions for like cultural burns, you know, that are things that we can do today and solar projects or whatever else there is that makes, you know, good sense. And I'm really pleased that there are some teachers, you know, that are in our audience because there are some things that we can do in in teaching in our classrooms about the history and the true history that happened with Native peoples in California and there's curriculum that that is available for schools and that is a good way to introduce your, your students and if you are interested in things I'm sure Malcolm knows but I also have some resources and would be happy to share my contact information through with you so that we can get some resources to you but there's some really easy ways that you can share with your students that that are cost effective and easy for you to do and and I would be more than happy to do a zoom meeting with your class at any time that that you wanted and and I'm always excited to to share with students so I offer that to you to Fantastic Susan and just to add to what you were saying is that the I remember some even as far as 30 years ago, the analysis of the nuclear the National Energy Agency was that all the electricity needs in the US could be powered by wind in the 11 Midwestern states with westerns and plain states, many of those that are on tribal lands so it's, it's not a question of is it possible it's just how do we get there. Yeah, what do we do to make it happen Michelle. Back to you on this whole topic of the solutions and response to what Paul was and so it both said and, and for those who tuned in late Malcolm, actually Malcolm just gave me a comment in the chat which I'm going to read both for those of you that didn't know Malcolm is decided to not speak very much tonight because of his underlying condition of Parkinson's but I am going to call on him at seven o'clock if you would like to make some comments but instead he's he's taken advantage of the chat to say how about we pick up the conversation from where Michelle took it before back to the underlying values and practices that pertain to climate change. There's like names on the land like the property laws, like the political structure like the education of children the belief that land has power. And that also brings me to one more quick reading from deep hanging out that Malcolm asked me to read, which is individuals so dominate our modern sense of being. We often name places after people and pit river is no exception, a modern map of the area bears names such as Clayton Canyon, Bernie falls pitfield McGee peak and a host of others. I can't help but wonder, did anyone ever asked the peak, whether it wanted to be named McGee. In the world into which my friend Daryl was born in contrast, place to find and name the person. My native name. The Sunma et Jotay Darrell once explained is an active culture, referring to the landscape where I was born on the North Bank, the Sunma et Jotay fall river, also called fall river mills. In a 2007 interview with Indian Times, a publication from UC Riverside. Darrell explained his name and his identity in this manner. My connection to my mother and to the earth is in the fall river valley. There beside the fall river. Therefore, my native name must show that connection. I am so much Jotay. There is only one summa a Jotay the river, recognized by the great universal powers. And the recent past, all males were named for the landscape of their birth. In this manner, anyone would know you, your birthplace, your genealogy and your history, just by your name. Michelle, that was actually back to your territory. Yeah, yeah, and it kind of reminded me of some of my notes and reading the pain out. There's, there's so many stories, you know, the book is really Malcolm talking, giving us a picture and telling us where what he learned and, and many of those experiences he had with with native people across the state. So, there's a chapter that's talking about his time with Preston arrow weed down in, in the Kumi island, the equiton, and they're talking about cremations and cremation being part of the place and how, when native people. And what I found out to myself from this whole chapter was, there's really not a separation between life and death that we, we live in this land our ancestors lived in this land and we've always been in this land and it's an incredibly powerful thing to be able to say I'm, I'm from this land, which is what the reading just was talking about that the land and the person are the same, because we come from the land, and it's one of the things that I do feel sad sometimes for non native people that aren't from living where they're from originally where their homeland might be. You know they don't have that connection to the land, although some, you know ranchers and people that have lived for many generations can make those kinds of claims about living, you know having ties to the land. For native people, going back for, for eons for for tens of thousands of years, it brings a level of knowledge that it's hard to express to a non native person that we're living where our people lived we're living where our people died we're living where generations and generations have lived and died like it's the shell mounds in West Berkeley, and in the Bay Area and all across northern California actually along the coast there were show mounds, which, you know marked the fact that those generations lived in that place for hundreds of thousands of years and and recognize that at the point of contact. And then fortunately, you know with contact that that line was broken for some or at least disturbed for some and they've had to reclaim that connection to those places, and then other tribes you know where there wasn't a a removal. Or genocidal overtaking of the land, like maybe up in your country. You know that that still exists. And so that sense of being part of the place, the sense that time is different. And I remember reading something I think it might have been Winona la Duke. I think it was talking about. And I'm sorry if it wasn't her by I'm pretty sure it was her she was talking about how you know their cycles of the earth, their cycles of the land their cycles of the plants and of the animals and there's, you know the annual cycle, where we have spring fall and then there's many, you know, five year cycles or maybe eight year cycles where things kind of come and go and migration patterns for elk or different herds or maybe monarchs or, you know different species that might be bigger than a year it might be many many in certain things happening. But she was talking about cycles that might happen at 50 or 100 year cycles that only native people would know these cycles and, and they recorded those histories and their oral tradition about the time when these things happen and, and so when it happens again, maybe 100 years later, that people know that what's, that this is expected that this oh yeah this is the time when they do this. It's a unique understanding and tied to the land. And unfortunately the actions that we've been that, you know, our, our society has the decisions that have been made for, you know, our government by our governments to move water from one place to another to drill oil from inside the earth. And we use those materials in a way that they weren't intended to be used by the earth. You know because those Tars and those oils could come there in the earth they're actually the remains of our ancestors, the remains of what was here before. And they serve a function in the earth, they stay lubricated, and they are kind of like the grease that keeps the gears running inside the earth and as we take it out. We remove that grease inside the earth and then we have earthquakes, because there's not that kind of shifting because the earth is alive, and we know it's alive, and people forget, I think that it's alive, but as Sue was saying, when you live in the place and you, you eat from the place and you die and are buried in that place, you have a connection that is has a respect for the place. And you'll have a deeper understanding of the place. And so when those those cycles are interrupted the oil is removed the water is put into canals. There's a misunderstanding of what the purpose of these resources are. I know we were talking the other day in anticipation of this event and I pointed out that there's signs in Central California, along the freeway that say, don't let our water flow into the ocean. And from a native perspective, that makes no sense, because that's where water goes water flows through the rivers and the creeks and it flows into the ocean and there's a system in place that lives on that water. So to not let it run into the ocean is a very strange idea. And it's a it's an idea that can only be understood and make sense to somebody that is absolutely removed from the land and only sees water as their personal property and a resource for them to consume. So it's a very different kind of experience. And I just add one little thing about fire. Hasu mentioned fire and control burning which is a lot is, it's talked about in Malcolm's book about the controlled burns and the basket leavers restoring the, the cultural burns into the forest for the basket materials and for the food for the, you know, regeneration of the trees because trees many of the pines need fire to be germinated and to make new trees. And so the, it's, there is a rise of the tribal fire departments and tribal fire departments don't just put out fires tribal fire departments today are starting fires, but they're starting cultural fires. And they're making sure that those fires don't get out of control. And so I think that's just sort of a dichotomy that's very, very interesting that, you know, Sacramento can a Sacramento fire department puts out a fire, but the shingle spring spandemic Indians fire department, they're, they're making fires, and they're controlling the fires and they're creating the, they're cutting the, the, the tinder down and they're making a safer place for fire. So I just want to close with that. This is so important what you've been sharing and I, I want to just check with Laura, our, our hosts. Can we go past 710. Absolutely. But I think we'd like to turn this over to Pam to start reading some of the questions in the q amp a. One second because I just wanted to make one more comment and then also there are a lot of questions in the q amp a maybe she consolidate them and if the panelists are willing could we go on to 720 and not stop at 710 this conversation is so rich and some of the questions are really wonderful. So, how about she read two or three at once, rather than trying to, you know, consolidate them rather than answering while she's consolidating. So just a quick comment back to you and then we'll get some questions. Okay, and I hate to open this to a whole nother thing but I really feel like there's some wonderful people in this audience and in this panel and it's causing me a lot of concern over the last couple of months and that is this movement towards creating some animosity between color. And I'm really concerned about that, because there's this big climate but there's this whole movement to cause this internal kind of thing within our country and with with black against Asian or, you know, or Asian against Brown or, you know, it's just this undercurrent that I see going in our country and it worries me a lot about that and how, how that's going to be addressed and and where we begin to think about that because it's going to hit us and I would rather see minds that we have on this panel and in this audience begin to be thinking about that before it's too late. And that's, I don't want to spin us it's such a late hour but I just, if people could begin to think of this so that we're not caught at late hour and no one's thinking about this. And let me pass it to Pam Pam of the Mechanics Institute to consolidate a few questions, and then also Malcolm in this round. Since we have 13 minutes left we'd love to hear from you I know everybody would like to hear from you. I know it might be difficult but how about we hear from all our speakers again with these consolidated questions and then we'll come back to you. Pam, please go ahead. Well the questions in Q&A they are there but it's not hard to consolidate them because they seem to be on a theme of how we incorporate the Native American approach. Dr. Gillan said is it possible to speak of a reproach but a paradigms of a process of change. How might our practices help us better handle differences and values and viewpoint. John Calloway asks how do we effectively integrate Western scientific knowledge with traditional ecological knowledge. Can the two work together and are there any specifics about how they have worked together effectively. Louise Dunlap asks as a descendant of early Yankee settlers in Northern California I'm paying a lot of attention to the efforts among white landowners now to return land to indigenous control do any of us know of examples in our region that are helping to address climate change. Fantastic. Who'd like to start. Paul, Michelle. Paul any examples you know of integration of traditional ecological knowledge and modern scientific approach. It's happening everywhere in the world science or scientists. Let's not call them scientists. Let's call them ecologists, botanists, anthropologists, people who whose whose work is intimately involved with the original inhabitants is particularly in the 82% you know of the biodiversity in the world is contained in the actual tribal lands, you know, and the 5000 indigenous cultures and that's about four or 5% of the people but 82% of the biodiversity and so there's a lot of interchange about that which is how why is that I mean I mean soon. Michelle can tell you right away why that's true but I mean this point is that from the ecological point of view. They, there's an openness there to understand what are the cultural practices there that are able to maintain intact ecosystems where the rest of the world, the losses of biodiversity are huge. Yeah, I might also add that in the project that I spoke about him in my bio and the website is the conversations with the earth indigenous voices on climate change exhibit that was at the Smithsonian in 2011 2012. One of the prime examples was the development of a potato park in the Andes which is using modern agricultural knowledge together with traditional knowledge to read to and to generate over 300 species of potato that are endemic to to the Andes and one of the ironies of climate change in the Andes is that as the glaciers recede the people, the traditional peoples have to go further up the mountains to to plant potatoes. And they're now able to plant corn at some of the lower elevation so they're sort of what Paul was saying it's, you know it's not that they're adapting they're adapting to the climate and making it work for their tradition. So, Michelle or Sue would you like to. I would like to sort of just bounce off of the comments that are in the chat to talking about the difference between extractive. Speaking, and there were some comments about, you know what's the difference between sharing and not having it taken, and, and I would just circle back to Malcolm's book, the book is an expose on how to share how to receive indigenous and and cultural traditions and our teachings and not take it. But he's sharing it with others he's passing it on. But he didn't make it his own he's, he's telling us what the native people said he hasn't taken in all of these stories and made it his philosophy that he will teach others about natives. His version of it, he's actually sharing what we have said, and there's a lot of profiteering they can go on with native sharing of our traditions and cultures and our ideas and thoughts about, you know, tk the traditional knowledge and, and native thoughts and native as Paul said, this knowledge is in science, science is based on our traditional ecological ecological knowledge. We have aspirin because we have willow. You know there's so many medicines that come from the plant that we know how to use and we were using it and others watched and then they used it to make the medicines that we all buy at the store today. Our native economic traditional ecological knowledge is is embedded in our society. Unfortunately, it's been commercialized and, and so I guess the teaching that we might want to have is, is more about sharing and acknowledgement, you know, even these land investments, and, and returning, you know the land back initiatives that are out there. She was also asked about people are returning land to native people. They often have questions on how to do that. But there are different many many legal ways to return land to the native people to interest them with their properties and whether they're cultural properties, cultural sites, or they are just someone's home that then can be repurposed by a tribe for the benefit of native people in the community that it's serving those those options are out there so I'm sorry I probably didn't answer your questions, Claire but hopefully I answered a couple in the chat. Fantastic and I just wanted to add. Yes, go ahead Sue. Sorry. I just wanted to of course, because the main one of the main things that's happening here locally is a removal of the dams. And I want to say that in the 40 years that I've been home on the river. I've lost a species, and have more threatened species and so I'm really excited about the removal of the dams because it has been shown that the the ecosystem repairs itself rather quickly. Once that happens and I'm excited to see what that means for the Klamath River ecosystem and and the species and and the people who depend on, you know, the river for our way of life with that, what that will bring to us. And then they come in years so that is something that can happen and will happen and I just want to leave with everyone's thoughts of, you know, we all, we all have a have a responsibility in this world and we all need to look at being good ancestors. And what is our legacy going to be and how do we want to leave this world for our children and our grandchildren and I for one want to be a good ancestor and and I live my life and and I'm conscious of my decisions and and the choices I make in my life to make a difference. So I just hope that everyone else who's out there begins to just take a look at, you know what we do in our daily lives and how we can make that that difference to be a good ancestor. And speaking that I'm going to put one thing in the chat and then we're going to pass it to Malcolm Malcolm I don't know if you've been following the chat but there's an outpouring of clamoring to hear from you and just for those who want to know about action that can be taken starting next week there's going to be a week against this extractive industries of fossil fuels direct action in Washington DC where thousands of people are expected. I've put a notice from the Indigenous Environmental Network in the chat. There's also many articles but anyways you can look to support the groups that are there and I'm going to be there risking arrest all next week it's one of the most important actions that's taken place in the last two years and Malcolm, we're all here because of you. So please share your thoughts if you wish. Thank you. So, yeah. I'm so grateful to everybody for being here, all my friends and Paul and Michelle and Susan and Euclid and Euclura and also Pam. Help. It feels like a real community people as it builds up over the years. And I think among the things that I've learned about California Indians is a sense of humility and the sense that I think that our culture has a sense of using knowledge to conquer things and using language to control. And to use language to express wonderland and to express and to say it into and into sense and into appreciate the world. I think we have so much to learn from California Indians, and it has to do with, with a sense of propriety, a sense of portion and a sense of sensitivity. I mean, Shaman doesn't go to get knowledge. Shaman goes out to the world and maybe if he or she is lucky, knowledge will come to them and I think this is something about the world as a teacher and something about how I think the important things we have to know are a bit in the land around us and there are a bit in rocks that have stories between myths and in the moods of animals. I think we should up now. It was so wonderful to hear your voice and eloquent as always I thank you so much. I'd like to wrap up the evening also to say thank you to Malcolm you are truly our inspiration for all these years of your work you're writing your community cultivation and outreach. You've just been so inspired by you and also your work in heyday books, and also your new work at ICANN. So I want to thank Claire Greensfelder, who's our moderator from the California Institute for Community Art and Nature, and our guest Susan Mastin, and also to Michelle and also to Paul Hawkin, and I've made a note in the chat where you can also purchase their books, hanging out as we've done tonight, and also regeneration. So once again thank you for this reflective and thoughtful and inspiring evening, and we hope that you'll join us again for our next programs and good night everyone. Night. Thank you so much Laura. And thank you for all the beautiful messages in the chat. We really appreciate them. We are going, I've saved it and we will read them all. Yes, thank you. Thank you Malcolm. Night.