 Okay. Good morning, everyone. Can you tell me if you can see me and hear me on the chat and we'll go ahead and get started. Yes, Rosie. Thank you. All right. Yay. Thanks, Stephanie. So good morning, everyone. I'm Jordan McElven. I work with the Health Collaborative. Many of y'all have met me before. So welcome to our next presentation. I wanted to introduce our next speaker, Mr. Chuck Paul. He is the Director of Outreach at Roy Moss Youth Alternatives. He's an Army veteran. He's worked with the US Customs Officer on the American Southwestern border. Also as a Special Investigator with the Texas Department of Family and Protective Service. So he has years and years of experience and he's here to talk. Uh-oh. What happened? Okay. We'll make sure that Chuck can hear us and then we'll let him take the big screen. All right. I can hear you now, Jordan. Okay. Great. And remember everyone that you're welcome to look at the bottom right corner. There's an ask a question button. Feel free to submit questions for Mr. Paul. And then at the end, we will take some questions at this time. All right. I'll set, Jordan. You're all set. You're good to go. All right. Thanks. All right. So as Jordan introduced me, I'm Chuck Paul, Director of Outreach and CST Services for Roy Moss Youth Alternatives. And what CST Services stands for is Child Sex Trafficking Services. We handle more than just the trafficking, that sex trafficking cases is also labor trafficking and other exploitation. I'm here to talk to you today about human trafficking and what your community needs to know. I'm going to give you an overview of what trafficking is. I'm going to give you some details of what it is. And I'm going to probably dispel some myths because unlike, you know, I mean, I am like Liam Neeson. I have a certain set of skills, but they're not his skills. My skills are along the lines of what trafficking really is. So let's talk about that. So first off, we know that nationally there's over 2.8 million homeless youth in the United States of America. And the average age of homeless youth is 15 years old. This goes anywhere from youth that are homeless with their families to youth that are on the streets and homeless is either runaways or they don't have a family to cut to. And we know that these particular individuals are highly susceptible to exploitation because as you know at 15 in the state of Texas, you can't rent a hotel room. You can't get a decent job that's going to pay for you to survive. You can't get a credit card or a banking account or even lease a car. So you have the inability to do the basic things you need to do to survive. You have to rely on the kindness of others. And unfortunately, and many of my street youth, they end up running into someone that wants to exploit them. The human trafficking is defined as something where we're buying, selling or trading a person's sexual services or labor or resulting in a payment of goods and services or money from another person. These victims are not compensated. These victims are forced through manipulation, either physical force or they're lied to or are tricked. And we're going to talk more about that, the use shame in order to manipulate them. As a matter of fact, many of my survivors did not initially identify as being trafficking survivors. Simply because of the fact that the popular imagery we have out there today is that of a chained up girl in a basement or this, you know, beat up beautiful child, you know, tied up. And that imagery is actually wrong. That's not what this is. Most of my victims were never tied up. They were never chained physically. Psychologically, they were completely in bondage because human trafficking is very much modern day slavery. According to the United Nations, there are currently more slaves in the world today than prior to the 13th Amendment. This is a $150 billion a year international business with over $30 billion being generated in the United States alone. The United States, as of this year, according to the U.S. State Department has been listed as the top country for victims and the top country for consuming victims in the world. And we know that over 80% of the victims that we have served have been American citizens, trafficked by American citizens. These are runaways. These are kids have been thrown out of their house. These are kids that are homeless. These are often kids in foster care, but they're also very much children that are in our houses. And right now with the current climate of COVID-19 and so many children online, we don't necessarily know if they're being supervised. I'm going to show you that if a child has access to the internet, the traffickers have access to them. So I hear the term prostitution is thrown out all the time when describing my survivors as if I've heard things like teenage prostitution. I've even said that myself earlier in my early years with law enforcement, teenage prostitution has actually not a true statement. Those two statements conflict each other because you cannot be both a teenager and a prostitute simply because of the fact that if you're younger than the age of consent in the state of Texas, which is 17, you cannot consent to sex. Therefore, both the US Supreme Court and the Texas Supreme Court has said they cannot legally consent to sex for money. They are held through manipulation and force and they're lied to on their trip. Or they may be having to be exploited to pay off a debt or they're being threatened with serious bodily harm or their families being threatened with serious bodily harm. And in many cases, they're being blackmailed. And in all those cases, whether it's someone under the age of 18 or over the age of 18, those are all definitions of trafficking. So I would propose that very many men and women and it's both men and women out there that are we have identified as prostitutes are actually human trafficking victims. And this goes everywhere from strip clubs to escort services to the person that's working in the kitchen cleaning the dishes at the place that you like to go eat. We've had many stories like that. These individuals are groomed. And there's a process of grooming it's referred to as fractionization seduction. And it involves a mind control enslavement process whereby they first capture an individual's attention. And, you know, if you're a kid on the street, it's easy to capture your attention. You know, hey, you need somewhere to stay. You need somewhere to go around the internet. Get on the internet, start talking to them. On the internet, you can pretend to be anyone you want to be. How many of you I know you can see by picture, but how many of you would say that I'm a 15 year old Asian American female back in my days when I was doing investigations and finding missing kids. I was online. How many of you would say I'm a 17 years old African American female. Again, back when I was doing investigations. I was online. How about a 20 year old a Hispanic male. Online. Or a man in his 60s who's a widower and has a lot of resources in an entrepreneur. I know I might look a little old but I'm not quite that old. But no, and my wife is very much alive. I am online. I have been all those people. Now I don't use those profiles anymore. But the reason why we had those profiles because if I was looking for a missing young man, I could use one of those three younger profiles to find that young man. If I was looking for a missing young woman, the same thing. If we were looking for a child, we would believe we're being trafficked. The profile of the widower in the 60s was the profile we would use to find the ads for sex where children are being advertised. You can be anyone you want to be online. And unfortunately traffickers know this and they utilize this process of grooming online. In order to create a attention and then start to build a relationship with an individual. And when they build a relationship they use they build rapport and they talk to them and all this time they're trying to identify how the victim gives unless receives love. We all have different love languages. Some of us like gifts. Some of us needed to be hugged and are really going crazy right now because everyone has to be six feet away. Some of us like when someone tells us we did a great job. Others just want to be around the person that they care most about. And while still others like it when somebody brings them a cup of coffee. These are all ways we give them to receive attention and love. And traffickers are great at talking to someone for however long it needs to talk to them to learn how to give them receive love. And they utilize active listening because they base this in two main factors. Everyone wants to tell their story and we all want to be loved. This is common theme for all humanity. And traffickers build on that. They let people tell their stories. They learn how they give and receive love and they use that to manipulate them with lies. Fake shared personal experiences and losses because if they feel themselves being pulled into the friend zone. They're then going to speak up and say you know how you were saying that your mom and dad have been fighting lately. Well, I never shared this with anybody and you're just so much more mature than anybody else to your age. And I really feel close to you. But you know my dad left my mom when I was little and it really messed me up. These exaggerated face fake shared personal experiences and losses create a bond where they feel like they have something special between the trafficker and their intended victim. And then they exaggerate these emotional experiences and they build this close relationship where it becomes more than a friend. And as they're doing this, they're poisoning the waters between the intended victim and all other social connections. You know why your best friend gets jealous when we talk online. Really because she's trying to talk to me and she wants to get with me. You know why your family doesn't like you being online with me. Well, that's because well your dad probably doesn't care. And you know what your mom, your mom knows that she's never going to have a real relationship like we have. The child may not believe these lies at first, but over and over again they hear these things. And as they're hearing this, they're going to hear entice repel. And entice repel is a very powerful tool for reprogramming a human being. And it goes a little something like this. Hey, I really like how you look today. You look great. But you know what? I've got this friend that does hair and nails and they can hook you up. It's always a compliment followed by a correction. And these compliments followed by corrections help build on that relationship, but also help slowly manipulate the behavior of an individual. So this individual feels like in this relationship they have to act a certain way, dress a certain way, and they start to take on those personas. As they're slowly being more and more isolated from all their social connections because they're changing and they're hearing all these lies about their best friend, their family, maybe their coach and anything else. But as they're losing these relationships, there's this constant threat of loss. The loss of the relationship with the trafficker, the groomer online. They call this bunny hunting online. When they do this face to face, when they're doing this as an age made at school, this is called knocking. And I can tell you that right now, according to the Sheriff's Department, Bear County Sheriff's Department, there's a knocker and that's what they're called groomers of face to face. There's a knocker in every high school in Bear County. So why do they stay? Why don't they leave? Well, because they share what's called a trauma bond. And so this trauma bond is where they're using fear and sexual feelings to attract someone. As they build on this relationship, they eventually get this young person to run away with them. Now, why run away? Well, simply because of this. Often we hear stories online. We read on Facebook about zip ties on windshield wipers or kids getting snatched from some particular mall here in town. And I'm here to tell you that that's all already. That's not how traffickers are offering. At any given time in a local shopping establishment, when you're there, there's usually several cameras watching. Most malls, you're easily on 20 cameras at any given time. If a young person gets snatched from a mall or a local shopping establishment, they now have a description of the abductor. They have a description of their vehicle. They have their license plate. They have a trigger and amber alert where there's going to be an army of cops looking for this individual. These individuals do not want to attract attention. They operate in the shadows. They operate in the gray. So what they do is they groom online. They groom through age mates, another kid, another victim that they have at school. They groom through that process. And then they entice that child to run away. And the reason why they do it that way is because, you know, there's going to be an army of cops assigned if a child gets abducted. However, if a child runs away, the police officer is going to come out to the address to take a report, put them into NCICTCIC. They have one hour to do it from the time that the report is taken. They put it into the system. It goes to the missing persons department. And I'm here to tell you that in most major metropolitan cities in the United States, there is not one police officer assigned to the missing persons department. Not one. It's usually civilian, but they call service agents. They're allowed to do data research and make phone calls. And when they develop a lead, they send that to a detective or they send that to a patrol officer to check out. Last year alone, there was over 460,000 children that went missing in the United States of America. 460,000 someone's baby, someone's sister, someone's brother. Somebody's child. And that fact wasn't made very well known. I mean, it's posted on websites all over the place to include the National Center for Missing Disploited Children. But unfortunately, missing children, it happens. I mean, we know that when the kids go missing, sometimes they come back home, sometimes they end up with friends. But unfortunately, sometimes they do end up in the hands of traffickers. And once the trafficker gets this child and runs away, that's when they're going to engage in sex acts with them. There's going to be this sense of Romeo and Juliet on the run from the law. There's going to be this sense of fear of loss. But then there's also going to be, they're going to see things, witness things, violence, things that makes them feel like afraid, but also enticed. And they're also going to be rewarding. Rewards include new hair, new nails, new clothes, cell phones, trips. They're going to be treated well, but none of this has anything to do with rewarding the victim. To the trafficker, this is all about marketing, marketing a lifestyle, marketing a product. And that product eventually becomes that child. But the victim truly believes the trafficker loves them. They truly believe the trafficker is the only person that can still love them. The trafficker tells them that every single day. Remember, you can't go back home, you ran away. Your parents are going to be mad at you. They're not going to love you like I do. I'm the only one that can love you. And eventually when that trafficker turns them out, because that trafficker has some type of crisis where they have to make money really, really quick. And then they go to the victim and say, hey, I owe this guy 5G. I owe this guy $5,000. He's going to kill me if I don't get it. How are we going to make $5,000 today? I'm going to make $5,000. And they're going to trick the victim into suggesting that the victim engages in a sex act for money. And the trafficker is going to say, yes, let's do that. And then when the victim does that two, three times, and they think there's going to be done, but it still keeps happening. And the victim asks about it. That's when the trafficker is going to be like, hey, wait a minute. This was your idea. And the victim feels trapped. These victims become property. They get stamped or tattooed with the marking of ownership of the trafficker. Now this is just like the Nike Swoosh or the Golden Arches or any other logo that's out there. You know from my shirt that my logo says I work for Roy Moss Youth Alternatives. It's a good logo. It's children. They're usually with the traffickers. The traffickers are advertising their product and they're advertising who these victims belong to. So they're usually marked with a tattoo of a street name, usually involving a money symbol. It may involve a money symbol or a crown or a black rose. And it's somewhere that's going to be visible, arm, hand, neck, even face I've seen. And this tells the victim that they belong to the trafficker, mind, body, and soul. It also tells the other victims who this victim belongs to. Because there's this code out there in the streets. It's a code whereby it's called bounty. And what happens is that if a trafficking victim sees another trafficking victim talk to the police, they can report on them to the trafficker. And even if that's not their trafficker, they can be paid with drugs or money for reporting information. And they know who they work for based on their tattoos. But it also tells other traffickers, if you want this product, and that's what they consider this person with a tattoo, you have to pay their owner for them. And they do buy and sell victims between themselves. As a matter of fact, these three photographs you see here are the same 14-year-old child. I took these pictures. These are the same 14-year-old child, and she also has a tattoo on the inside of her lip. You see, when this little girl was 11 years old, her mom, who is now divorced, who had adopted her and her two brothers, met a new guy, a new boyfriend. And his guy seemed like he was really great. But eventually, he started taking the kids out to trips to Corpus Christi. And as he was taking the kids to trips to Corpus Christi, he was using the boys to sell drugs, using them to hold the drugs and sell the drugs. Anybody was turning out this little girl to tourists to Corpus Christi when she was 11 and 12 years old. His street name was Righteous. And eventually, he tattooed his name on her arm. Now, her mom was really enjoying the extravagant lifestyle, but on top of that, her mom was also greatly in love with Righteous and couldn't believe Righteous could do this. And even when she knew what he was doing, well, you know, she was afraid of losing him. He had trauma about it, her. Eventually, Righteous realized there was more money in selling this little girl to a guy whose street name was Jeezy. Jeezy took her to Houston and to Dallas and moved around that area. And eventually, Jeezy took her up to Washington State, you know, because things got too hot down here for him. Jeezy eventually sold her to a guy whose street name was Ricky, Ricky tattooed his name on the inside of her lip, took her to California, where at 13 years old, she was being sold in Beverly Hills as a baby doll. And she told us all the stories about the mansions and rich people she went to, where they would dress her up like a baby doll and sell her. She was recovered in San Diego, I'm sorry, San San Francisco. We recovered her FBI and I were involved with it, brought her back here to Texas, got her into one of the three programs that are currently existing here. And at the time, it was only one. And she got there, but unfortunately, she kept taking off and running away because this is a normal reaction. We know that they run away on the average seven times. But unfortunately, she's got to take another girl's with her. Now, I knew how to track this girl down. And let me just say she's responsible for helping and we're getting over nine girls to go with her. And we tracked her down, we recovered those other girls and her, but by this point she was working for Marvin Lee, his brother and his dad, here in San Antonio. And she had originally gone back to righteous and righteous sold her to Marvin Lee. And when I asked this little girl, 14 years old, what was going on? She told me, Mr. Chuck, you know what I am. This is the only thing I'm good for. No one else cares for me. We didn't eventually get her into a back into that same program. But I can tell you her story didn't end well. She's best checked currently in jail. This little girl who had the opportunity to be everything, her world turned around at 11. So these victims' health, as you can imagine, greatly diminishes. As healthcare professionals, you can only imagine what they're experiencing. See, they're not allowed to eat or sleep each day until they earn that particular amount of money that's what's called their automatic. The automatic is the amount of money they earn each day for their trafficker. Here in San Antonio, it goes anywhere between $1,500 to $2,500 a day. So as it says in the streets, this is the phrase that's used, 2K a day. To make that $2,000, they have to engage in activities in order to, activities normally between what's called the girlfriend experience or the porn star experience. Porn star experience is one hour time with a condom straight sex is the only thing on the table. It goes for about $120 an hour. So that means that victim has to work 16 hours to make $2,000 back to back sex, which is very hard. Or there's something called the girlfriend experience. The girlfriend experience is no condom untimed, whatever the traffic, whatever the client wants is on the table. And what these clients are purchasing is not romantic sexual relationships like you see in Pretty Woman. Now what they're purchasing is the stuff they see in pornography. And in pornography, what is normal is spitting and choking a lot of choking, slapping, hitting, biting, burning, beating. I mean, these individuals are paying for things that they've seen in pornography. As a matter of fact, we know that only 20% of the buyers are feeling 75% of the trafficking that goes on there. That means 75% of the sales is going to 20% of the buyers. These are what's called high-frequency buyers. And the profile we have in a high-frequency buyer is they're usually middle-aged professional males who are married with children. They're in occupations where they have some power and control like CEOs and lawyers and doctors and judges. And yes, healthcare professionals because I was going to shock you when I say the highest level of sales currently going on here in San Antonio. What's traditionally been going on is the medical center where you have a lot of haves and have-nots that are co-locating. And you have individuals that have disposable income and they have to have disposable income from this girlfriend experience. So as you can imagine what they suffer from if they're not eating or drinking or sleeping until they make that $2,000. They suffer from malnutrition, dehydration, sexually transmitted diseases, injuries like fractures and bruises and cuts. But those are usually from their clients and not so much the trafficking. You can imagine multiple infections, especially for untreated injuries, as well as post-traumatic stress disorder and other psychological disorders. Often they suffer what's called compound post-traumatic stress disorder. That means one traumatic event followed by another traumatic event, followed by another traumatic event, followed by another. We also see this in individuals who have been in combat and the outcomes are the same. It usually starts out with them trying to self-medicate with narcotics, leads to criminal activity, leads to loss of family and friends, leads to homelessness, and all too often leads to suicide. And this is the track these individuals are on. In order to identify a possible patient that comes into your treatment center, whether it's a clinic or a hospital, you have to understand the ABCs. How do they appear? How do they behave? How do they communicate? Chuck, we have about 10 more minutes. Okay, we'll get through this. So do they have that dominating person that brought them in that seems to try to control the conversation and maintain post-physical contact? Are you seeing those injuries over or make up trying to cover or introduce your tattoos that I talked about? Are they fearful, intimidated, uneasy around law enforcement? Do they have a fixation when there's discussions about money? And when you try to ask them a question, do they look at their companion for answers? And if you're referring to their companion for answers, whether it's male or female, but you get the details, you get her confusing, or maybe don't make sense that as you push to try to get to that story, it just breaks down. You may be dealing with a trafficking survivor. So some of the ways that we address that is we have the Quick Trip program. I'm sorry, not the Quick Trip program. The Safe Place program here, we run here for White Moss Youth Alternatives. Any youth can text the word Safe to For Help, 44357, or go to one of the Quick Trips here in town, and that will actually get them in touch with us. They'll get ahold of us and we'll come pick them up. One of the programs I run is the 24-hour drop-in center, which is at 3103 West Avenue, specifically designed as a 2017. We open for runaways, youth who are homeless, youth who have been exploited, or at risk of exploitation of human trafficking survivors. They can come in 24-7 and get the help that they need. We have a Family Counseling and Resource Center that is open seven days a week and has many time hours that we usually get families engaged over at the Trade and Counseling and Resource Center. Usually, if we got a runaway, let's say they can go back home, we can get them outpatient treatment over at the Family Counseling and Resource Center. And here's the thing, most of it's free. We have permits to pay for counseling. We have all assessments are free, and we even have a psychiatric clinic every Thursday. We have two emergency shelters that are specifically for these youth. One is our bridge facility for the runaway, CPS youth, and youth with shoulder justice. And our La Porta facility was opened in 2019, specifically for youth who are at risk of trafficking or trafficking survivors. We also have our Meadoway facility out in Burnie, Texas. This is for our young people that are in long-term care, six to 17 years old. We have four male cabins, two female cabins. And these are a lot of these kids suffer from trauma behaviors they experienced through child abuse, the Black Presploitation, that makes it very hard for them to be adopted. So we work with them in order to get them adopted. And our Turning Point programs work with our young people, the ages of 18 and 24. As you know, when you turn 18, you don't get this bag of wisdom and everything suddenly becomes good. A lot of our young people, especially those that grow from foster care, still need continued help. So this is a supervised independent living program where we work with them in order to get them into coordinated entry and housing. And they could be there for up to 18 months. You can actually call the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. I mean, sorry, National Human Trafficking Resource Center Polaris to report cases at 1-888-373-7888. And for those of you that prefer to text, it is 233-733. As well as get additional information there. So sorry I had to wrap quick at the end, but we'll have any questions. Yeah. Thank you so much, Chuck. I wanted to first ask you, will we be able to share these slides with our attendees today? Yeah. Okay, we'll catch up with you and share those out via email later on then. We do have a couple of questions. So first one is, are you seeing any specific or new challenges with child trafficking or with all of the services that you provide because of COVID-19? So what we're specifically seeing right now is that, well here locally at San Antonio, what we're seeing is we're seeing a fact because we're one of the few places left open that accepts, actually we're the only one left open, except for Rotaways and almost youth. We're getting SAPs bringing us a lot of kids that could potentially be victims in the future. A lot of these domestic violence cases, family violence cases are up. So we're starting to see an increase in youth being brought to us because it's safer to be at home. We know that these kids will probably end up in situations where because of this, their parents might not be able to pay a lot of attention to them. That makes them very susceptible to being groomed. We know that in talking with our contacts in law enforcement and FBI, that there's an increase in the amount of traffickers grooming online right now because it's very safe for them. And then another pattern we're starting to see is, and this is in my contacts in other cities that have been hit harder by COVID-19, Detroit, Chicago, out there in Washington state and then out there in California. What we've seen is the traffickers actually dropping the victims off on the street, saying, I'm not going to financially support you anymore because you're not making me any money because everyone's worried about getting sick. I don't want you to get sick and get me sick. So you're on your own. Wow. So they're just cutting them loose with no resources and nowhere to go. Nope. So if CHWs, mostly we have CHWs and attendance here today are working with somebody that they suspect, you gave some great things to be observant about when you're working with some clients and they suspect that they're involved in child sex trafficking. Is there a referral process to get them into services with Roy Moss? So with Roy Moss Youth Alternatives, all they can do, they mean they can call the 24-hour hotline number, which is 210-340-8090. That's 210-340-8090. The youth can come over to us. We can do an assessment of them on the spot. We have my case managers as well as my clinicians, because every youth that walks into the drop-in center is not only going to get assessed by my case managers and we're going to use what's called the CIT tool, which is a commercial sexual exploitation identification tool. It's a question. They're also going to be seen by one of my clinicians and we're able to get an assessment there. Now, we don't necessarily have to have them stay at the drop-in center. We usually try to get them engaged at the Family Counseling Center if we can. If you have a child that doesn't want to engage in any of those ways, it's best to involve like community advocate groups, like the rape crisis center is one that you can get involved with. It's also good to notify local law enforcement. And then one of the ways you can do that is, you know, by calling the National Human Trafficking Rease, I mean the Polaris Project National Human Trafficking Hotline. You may have a tiny bit of information that might not reach the criteria for law enforcement to be immediately be involved, but they're able to take those bits of information and put it together and send it to our Fusion Center, which is at Austin, Texas, so our DPS can start to build a case. Very good. And what about to receive services? Are there any sort of requirements like health insurance or ID? At the drop-in center, no, there's no requirements because the drop-in center is set up. We are funded through federal and state funding that specifically allows us, it doesn't matter. You're someone 18 or under, we're going to help you. If you're someone 19 or 24, we're going to do an assessment. Might not necessarily be able to give you overnight services, but we're going to help you. Now, at our Family Counseling and Resource Center, we have a grant that's for zero to eight to pay for counseling. It's called Ready Children. We have one that's for 16 to 24 called Successful Students to Pay for Counseling, but we also have the VOCA grant, which is the Victims of Crime Act grant. And what that is, if they're a victim of a crime, which includes like bullying or harassment or stalking, any one of those victims of crime, they also qualify for free counseling. And for services over there. If they don't fall underneath any of those categories, we also accept Medicaid. So those are all things that we're able to get over there. So the barriers are very minimal. And yes, we have clients over there that are not American citizens. I'm going to tell you that on the 103 youth we served last quarter, which was October to December, only three or four nationals. The rest were Texas kids. Yeah. So it's an issue, big issue right here at home. So I'm glad we have some good resources. Well, thank you so much, Chuck, for joining us. We're just about at 930. So I would love what you shared with us today. And I will be sure to share the slides out with our attendees in our follow-up email. And are there any final words you'd like to share with us before we close out? Well, I mean, I'm going to say the same thing that you hear often over and over again from everybody is that if you see something, say something. Don't try to rescue someone on your own. First, this is their moneymaker. They're going to retaliate with violence. But if you see something, say something, notify law enforcement. I've had conversations with Chief McManus, and he specifically said he would rather get 100 phone calls that turn out to be nothing than miss the one phone call that turns out to be something. Yeah. Yeah, important message. Very good. Thank you so much again. We really appreciate you taking the time to celebrate and help us learn some new information on CHW Day today. So we will close out. Everybody can either stay in this room if you'd like to attend violence prevention and move into the next room, which is linked if you would like to attend pain management. All right, so we'll go ahead and take a little break while we move into the next rooms. Thanks, Chuck. Bye. I think you can close out your camera. And Susan, is there anything else he needs to do? Susan might have left. All right, I'm just going to close out. I'm going to send you the PDF of that presentation, okay? We appreciate it. Have a great afternoon. All right, you too.