 Hello, good afternoon. Welcome to the Exhine stage, dear creatures out there on your devices. I'm really happy to open our stage today. I'm a bit sad to do it all alone here, no audience. So it's even better that at least for our first talk we have a pretty full panel. So with all the seven people here on the stage it would be rather crowded. But yay internet, it's possible to have them all there and still be alone in here. But there are so many people, so I don't want to talk too much about them so they have time to talk to themselves. So welcome to the Exhine Lichtung, that's the first talk and it's your talk speakers. Yeah, thank you very much. Unfortunately, we just lost Mario, so talking about internet. We're supposed to actually run the session mostly, but I also got the notes here. So let's maybe start with what the session is going to be about and let's hope that Mario will also be joining back in a bit. So I want to share the story of the PS lab that's one of our projects and our challenges in Corona times. Our goal is to inspire others to create open hardware and to share their stories of how they find solutions to problems and specifically in these Corona times. And in turn this might help us as well. And welcome back Mario, I just did the intro because. Thank you very much. So, yeah, and actually, so Daniel just did the introduction and people who are watching this now, they also can see how we basically work. So whenever something's not working or something needs to be fixed, this is how we collaborate with each other. I would like everyone here in this session now to give a short introduction of themselves. And then just like how we do in our usual regular meetings of the pocket science lab and also nominate the next person. So I would like to nominate Daniel Veselik first. Hello, I'm Daniel. I joined the pocket science lab, I don't know maybe one and a half or three years ago, but also sought in Singapore a few times at post Asia and was really excited about it. And personally, I mainly concentrate on how people can use it and work with students to test it and did some like musical instrument misuse of the pocket science lab. And I hand over to Alexander. Thank you, Daniel. So I've been working with a team now for about a year and a half. And I mostly work on the software side. So that means mostly the Python components, which is a standalone library, which can be used by people who are familiar with the Python scripting. And it is also the driver layer for the graphical user interface. And I also do some work on the firmware. Yeah, I originally got interested in the PS lab during the summer of 2020 when I was furloughed from work and was home board and I wanted some hardware project to think of it. So I got one and then that's how I got involved with the project. And then I hand over to Padma. Okay, thank you, Alex. Hello, everyone. So my name is Padma and I I've been with the project since my first GSOC in 2017. And ever since I was with the project, mainly working on the hardware and collaborating a bit to Android and the firmware part as well. Yeah, I think I can pass on to Kiwi. Hi, my name is Kiwi. So basically, friends of a foreseger for quite a while. So here in Singapore, so basically not just a PS lab, but any kind of hardware production needed from laser cutting. And generally, they'll just come to the office or shop design troubleshoot or and redesign again until we manage to get the design and the casing correct. So, so hand over to Weta. Hi, so I am Weta. I'm currently co-founder of a fund ago. Co-founding for impact businesses. So my role in pocket science lab is actually the manufacturing and of course the distributing. I've been dealing with the manufacturing issues, which is which is a headache, especially during the corona times. Yeah, correct. So I pass on to Alexandra. Yeah. Thank you Weta. Hello, I'm Alessandro. I'm background biologist and I joined the pocket science lab. As a project, I guess, almost one year ago, I knew Mario and Humphook since a while. I was also to Singapore, to the foreseger, no Kiwi and everyone and I'm biologist and what I want to do is to integrate scientific equipment on the pocket science lab to give this depth and make it useful on on a sense it on the scientific field. And yeah, that's it. And I give the world the war to Daniel M. Yeah, thank you very much. Yeah, another Daniel and I have known Mario already for, I don't know, for years or maybe longer. And at some point she told me about this PS lab project. And by day, I'm actually a software engineer working mostly on the web. And so I took over the development of the desktop application, which is based on electron. And that's interfacing with what Alex talked about, the Python interface that is our driver then. And with that, I hand over to a good question. I think everybody spoke and over back to Mario. I'm focused yet and and yeah, maybe a little bit of interaction if you like. Yes. Yeah, so the funny thing is I see myself on the screen, but I am a period and you don't see me for some reason. But yes, so thank you everyone. I'm here. I studied for Asia Organization with Mario back in 2009. And so what we want to do with the organization, we try to improve people's lives in Asia and everywhere through sharing open technologies and foster global connections. Beside for Asia, I also serve the vice chair of the open source committee at the IEEE and board member of the open source business alliance and the open source initiative. In the recent year, I started to focus on localization. I believe this is the way to have to produce locally and solve like some of the problems and I'm really happy to be here today. So as a pocket sign that is coming out of the organization, I've been involved in the project from the start, engaging with the community and try to bring the pocket sign lab to education. Yeah. Okay, thank you very much. So yeah, I already got a lot of flowers here in the in the introductions. As you can see guys, I'm one of the person here trying to bring everyone together. And I'm always really excited when we achieve to bring people from like around the world together so in actually people didn't say where they are from because I think in our meetings is always so normal. That we just have these global calls, but I want to tell you guys here. So we have participants from Sri Lanka, like Padma, Witte and Kiwi. You guys are in Singapore, Daniel, or both Daniels are in Germany. Alessandro is right now in Italy, Alexander is in Sweden and Tong Fokus from Vietnam. So it's really exciting. And this is also one goal of our session here. We want to share how we work with open hardware, how open hardware can be a way to collaborate around the globe without having to sign any any NDAs and how we solve global problems and what are our ideas and how we as open hardware contributors and how others can help to solve the climate change. So before we go and really like to tackle that question, I think it is important to share a bit about our background and how we came to the point where we are now in the pocket science lab. So I would like to start this conversation here today by talking a little bit about the history. And yeah, I think we can hear like maybe start with Padma. Padma, you have been one of the oldest contributors on this project. Could you share a little bit about your story, how you started to collaborate here in pocket science lab? I mean, like we know that for example, collaboration on software is happening for a long time already, but hardware, it's somewhat more challenging. So how did you get started? And how was it actually that we achieved to collaborate on hardware manufacturing? Yeah, maybe I can tell how I started with the space lab project in the first place. In 2017, when I was an undergraduate, I was looking into this Google Summer of Code program. And I was going through organizations and found for CES, one of the credible organizations to join and work with. At first, GSOC is more like a software-based program where it does not facilitate much of hardware things. So as a result, there was this Expise project, which was in the community for a while, but it was kind of a slow going. So in the first year, I took it over and then we tried to bring it to a level that we can mass produce it and make it more user-friendly with a lot of applications that people can interface this hardware with. And as a result, I got into this PSLab Android project, which is software. So it was in line with this GSOC project. So I joined this Google Summer of Code project for about three months. And once this period is over, and Mario and Homebook, we were discussing how to proceed further outside this GSOC program because it was a software program. So then I was doing my internship at Singapore. So Mario and me, there are a couple of people from this call were in Singapore at that time. So we got together and we had this make-a-space in Singapore. We joined them, we discussed how to progress and we designed the first prototype. And from that, after doing many peer reviews, we developed the version that is currently on the market. And that's how we started and where we're heading now. Thank you very much. I think we don't have too much time to actually go into all the features and what the Pocket Science Lab can do. Definitely check out this website, PSLab.io, and you can definitely also produce it yourself or check a few stores on the Internet if you want to order this. So this is completely open hardware. You can make all kinds of experiments with it. You can even control simple robots with it up to four servers are supported. And any sensor that has I2C standard can be supported if there's any glitch and just open an issue in our repositories. They're all linked on the website. But we want to talk this time more about the story, how we produce the open hardware and Padma, you already shared how you made the prototypes. So basically you work on the code, you use like open source programs like KeyCat, right? And then how did you get the prototypes actually produced? Well, I would say for a general purpose prototype, one would try to ask some of the manufacturers, usually in China to do the prototyping, usually the assembly part as well. But here we thought it would be more efficient if we do it ourselves. It would save us some time and effort. So I remember we were doing like three or four prototypes before we get to what we have right now. And all these were done by manual soldering, usually SMT. Well, quite a lot of work, but we are also very lucky that we had Padma because the components are so small. I think not many people were able to solder them, but we were sitting down in the hackerspace in Singapore and together. And like I supported Padma with my thoughts, with my mind because they were so small I couldn't have done it. But then was the question, we were pretty happy with the outcome. And the big question was how can we produce them? And I think we could never have done it without Weedhead. Weedhead, would you like to share a bit about the story, how it came to the production and what were the challenges? Okay, the production wasn't easy, definitely. We had a lot of challenges, things like language, we have things like the quality assurance things, all these things coming that's totally new to us. So, especially as we, this is our first time producing, so naturally how do we first thing we think was how do we actually reach out to the people in China, manufacturing China, right? So we actually looked through a few websites. And of course Alibaba was one of the first few that came out, right? So Alibaba was actually brought us a few quotes of different components and stuff. Initially, we were thinking about procuring the parts of ourselves and finding manufacturing ourselves. But luckily, we actually found a very nice distributor who actually connected us with one of their long-term partners who actually also does the manufacturing of the circuit boards as well. So a lot of two and back and just nice, it hit the Chinese New Year period and during this entire period of time, especially in China, they had actually one month long of holidays. So we actually had to rush, rush the production, rush the revision, rush the schematics and we rush a lot of things just to make it happen. Yeah. And of course, this involves going down to the factory itself to make sure that the things are properly in place, the quality assurance, the quality checks, and of course, and all this stuff as well. Yeah. One of the problems that we actually face while we are trying to source the components of Salesforce, we met some of the distributors actually selling those second-hand components which actually will overall bring down the quality of the PCB seal. Bring down in terms of what we are saying, things like there's a higher rate of failure or there will be higher rate of manufacturing being disposed out as well. Yeah. So how is this process actually changed now during the corona crisis? More or less, things are still the same. Luckily for our distributor, they are still there. They are not closed down yet. Yeah. So that's the fortunate part. Things definitely has become more expensive when we talk about supply chain, things are getting stuck at different ports, you know, factory shutting down, people getting quarantine factories, workers and things like that. So because of all these issues, the cost, the turnaround time actually went up. When we talk about turnaround time, we are talking about components that we might actually wait for, say, what could have been out there, we kind of gotten the components in three months, that required maybe till the end of next year, maybe not even end of next year. We're talking about three years later that the links available components are available as well. So this results in some of the distributors, not just China, probably around the world as well, to start hoarding on those components that are very, say, crucial. There are more commonly used, which resulted in the prices going up, sky folding, we talked about one of the chips, the MCP chips that we are using. It could be actually just be a few, $1, it's actually about $6 now. So that's actually quite a huge jump. Yeah. So, but the rest of the challenges still stay the same, finding a partner who you really can work with. And all these things are pretty much some of the things that we need to set across while we are doing the production. Yeah. And while we have that idea about local production, I think Kiwi will talk soon about it a little bit more in detail. We are not there yet. I mean, our batches are relatively small. I mean, the industry produces hundreds of thousands of batches. We are producing a thousand, yeah, in these kind of numbers. So we are still doing the production now in China. And so what are the challenges when talking with the Chinese people? I know at the beginning we tried to talk to them in English, and then we switched to Chinese. Can you tell a bit more about that? Yeah. Okay. So through Alibaba on Alibaba platform, we actually, we are only allowed to converse in English, purely English. So any Mandarin was actually reflect out. So this was Alibaba was meant to be built for for international buyers, right? So they don't want the native speakers from China to start going to around Alibaba, you know, and jacking up prices and things like that. So everything was in English. So naturally after that, and they took it offline with everything was true Gmail was through we chat. It was still in English as well. Right. So up to a certain point where we feel that information was lost during the communication. So that's where where we start to start to converse in Mandarin, you know, luckily in Singapore, we actually, most of us actually are able to communicate bilingual. So it's English is another language. So, so for me is of course Mandarin. Right. So I communicated with them with Mandarin. Because they get it, they get it, they get the idea across. And then of course, when you are able to converse in Mandarin, their service towards their service towards us also became better because they understand that we could also communicate with other distributors or manufacturers or in China as well, you know, to compare the quality so naturally the quality of their service became better. Yeah. But after and because of the able to converse in Mandarin, of course, they were able to do to show us more stuff. They even did a free checks on the schematics for us to make sure that it doesn't hit any production issues. Yeah. Cool. And yeah. But as you said, things have changed a bit. I mean, our advantage is that we have the established connection already, and we understand the process much better. I mean, like, actually, it's pretty straightforward, the process. But when you do the first time when you produce the first time, you're not sure, right? Is it like this or is it like this? Will we get cheated? And we also, yeah, for us, it was quite a substantial investment. Like we started a commercial operation because as a community, you cannot just produce a pocket science lab. But we achieved to do it and we had some insights from you, we did, but now we have corona time. So how could we do it in corona times when they are component shortages? How did we work it out? And yeah, Padma, you were the center of the hardware prototyping of the new version, which comes with a few cool features. So we are supporting more and more robot functions. And we have added an SD card, we added a small battery, more Wi-Fi Bluetooth features, pins for more experiments. So it's like kind of a new product, even. And so, yeah, a lot of new components were added a battery and so on. And we needed to make new prototypes. So Padma, how did this work out? How were you able to get the prototypes together? Yeah. Okay, so Padma dropped out of the connection to Sri Lanka. Padma, you are back. Can you hear us? So how did it work out? How were you able to produce the new prototypes now in corona times? But maybe shaky connection? But I think we were also there, the other people, right? I mean, so maybe Daniel, because you also were part of that discussion, Daniel Maslowski, a little bit. How did that work out with the prototypes? Do you remember how we tried to figure this out? I think I'm back. Okay, so then go ahead. Yeah. So I remember when we were doing prototypes, we usually make a couple devices, say three or four, and then we distribute them on ourselves. And then we test this. And while we are using it, we feel like, okay, now one might find this feature useful and we try to put that feature in this new board. And so we get a new prototype. So we went a couple of times and we had two or three of these improvements. So that's how we got this SD card, this real-time clock and the battery management system and new ICs for existing ones. And then comes the corona and along with it came this chip shortage worldwide. So, but for most of the chips, they were having a very long lead time. Some parts might not be even available for about a couple more years. So but we couldn't wait until these parts become available. So as a solution, what we try to do is we salvage some components from old PCBs and we soldered them and tried to just have this proof of concept ready so that then when the components are ready, we can just go directly to mass production. And that's how we tackle that problem. Yes. And our big question was how could we do that in the future? Also, when we have maybe components that aren't available, what if supply chains are like more and more disrupted. So, yeah, and then we had the great connection here to Daniel Vassalek who worked also and supported us in the OpenNext project just funded by U Horizon 2020. And Daniel, we took an idea that Kiwi had told us like years ago already with the local production. So, how do you think like that idea could apply, for example, for us in future even more? Could you explain a bit about decentralized local production and how it could benefit us? And what is the idea, for example, with the cooperation that we try to start with the University of Applied Science here in Berlin? Yeah, sure. I was just saying another thought, but I don't know if this is technically possible, like to have like parametric key cut files, basically, so that you have a list of components for each part, basically, and then re-route the things or something, but this was just something along the lines where I was wondering how to possibly solve this. But like, it's very great that we have this connection to the BHT, Berlin Hochschule für Technik, and they have a long tradition in making PCBs. So, they have all the chemicals and a lot of like tools to make PCBs, but also like pick and place machines. So, we were already in the process of starting to getting this running, and it's of course like machines that have been sponsored by industry, for example, so they were running in production for a while, but no one has ever used them in the new location. So, then there came the chip shortage and everything got delayed a bit. But in general, I think especially for bigger things and open hardware can be like electronics, but it can also be furniture and all different kinds of objects. Their local production makes even more of a difference because if you just share the plans and the ways and the processes and the production possibilities, and then you source your products and the machines locally and you can like just get your, I don't know, your shelf system that's exactly fitted to your space from your city and everything happens there. Of course, you have a lot of less transportation. And so I think it's a strong case, especially for bigger open hardware projects and back to electronics. I think we got so used to just sending off the files to China and shortly after getting everything shipped back and everything was working perfectly. And then there was like this ship ever given and suddenly nothing was moving anymore. And then there was Corona and so on. So I think there's more of a realization that it would be good to have this to not lose the skills and the possibilities, even though it might be more expensive to produce. They're directly for example here in Germany, but it would be smart to get better at that and not to replace the possibilities of producing globally, but to add to the ways of doing it and especially for smaller badges. I think it's super great if you're able to go through all these steps and also for the students great to learn. So and we have talked a lot about what are our challenges in the production. But the question is also how a different way of producing can, for example, help us to save energy, help us in the fight against climate change. And we have Kiwi here who is based in Singapore and works with the laser cutter project with laser cutter project and his company, Lyons Forge. And Kiwi helped us to produce these casings in the pocket science lab. For example here with laser cuts and with files that we posted then on our repositories. So Kiwi, could you tell us a bit about the advantages of local production and what advantages does Open Hardware have here? Thank you Mario for giving me this time to share on this subject. So this is a local production but I will change the terminology just for myself. I will call it community production. So I've been talking about community production since we first met with Mario of Force Asia. So I'm a strong believer that not just about resilience for the community but also looking at sustainability. The reason just to give you one quick example. So a lot of the PS Lab casing that we make as a prototype. We're actually using whatever material that we can find in the office. So just come in and say, guys, we want to make a prototype. I have some material here or there. We just take it. We just recycle. And then here we are managed to come up with functional prototypes. And this will also be applied to a lot of other projects, especially during COVID-19. So if I may, I'll just share with you some presentation. It just happened that I have given another session apart again from this picture if you can see. So again, local production, especially community production during the time of crisis when everything come to a standstill. But critical supply such as medical device cannot be assessed in other ways other than fabricating yourself. So just imagine if the school is to open up and allows the community to come in and fabricate like convert the schools resources into like a factory to produce like ventilator face mask. You name it. Just to draw something that I have done. So just put this. All right. Okay, so when the, what happened here that when the COVID-19 hit us back in 2020 March, Singapore was go straight into a lockdown. So the, and we all know that from China side, the shipment of masks face shoes was totally not available. So what happened then is that we quickly get with the community to kind of fight. Whoever have treated those were treated pinter will use the trigger pinter those we laser cutter like myself, I will just build what we call face shoe production jig. Right. So using laser cutter we produce this jig we distribute about 100 100 of these jigs to 100 volunteers. Each of them within a day can produce 100 pieces of face shoes. So as a result, we are able to kind of gather the community come together to distribute the face shoes, which you can see. Down here to the what I call the frontline workers or people who are in what I call it as a disadvantage. So these are the high risk areas. So whether they are selling food or whether they are working in hospital. So these are some of the example. Right. Okay, so going back, so the, so these are just a very minor small examples, but you can see that if this process of having the community able to produce your own goods using the resources you have within the facilities. So it's not just about not being threatened by China is also the ability. Now that COVID-19 or the pandemic is going to be the new norm. So you never know when will be the next lockdown. Right. So it's better for the community to be more prepared. And as we move towards climate change. So let's just talk about a bit on the energy efficiency and the material efficiency perspective. So put aside COVID-19. So you talk about energy efficiency. So using your own material, they can find that it would otherwise been trolled as a landfill or been burned away as a waste. Now you can use it for better good. I think from that perspective, you can reduce a lot of waste and moreover able to produce your own goods versus order it from China ship all the way to here. The amount of carbon footprint produced by whether it's from the aircraft or from the shipping industry and the truck logistic. Those will take out a lot of energy. So in a way, you are reducing waste and at the same time you are reducing the amount of carbon footprint per product. So from that perspective, I think open hardware comes in when we move away on not just the material, but also the design of electronics. If in the future, all electronics are more or less a standard template. Then strictly speaking, I can just unplug one components electronics and apply it into another electronics. So right now, obviously for the purpose of education, like Arduino, so they are already doing that. But what I'm saying is that can we move that open architecture that inter compatibility beyond just education? Can we move it into the industry? Can we convince the industry to do that? So what assuming when people start to buy EV car, they start to trash away that EV car. Can we take the same parts and then apply it to your washing machine? Apply it to your other products you want to design, right? Hand back to you, Mario. Wow, I'm just amazed. You're drawing a very big vision and I think these are the times where we need such big visions to change the way really the industry works. And we want to be examples. We want to give examples how this can really work. And I would like to ask again Daniel Vesulek in regards to a resilient and sustainable society now that Kiwi mentioned. You are also a scientist like a researcher. What advantages do you see as open hardware? Like going along the way that was what Kiwi mentioned as he is doing it in a practical way. What opportunities do you see? Yeah, I was very happy that this computer magazine CT published something on open source hardware. I think it's blurry now because of the filter. But basically I think this DIY approach is one side of the picture. So using what you have and so on. And I think it's a big one. But at the same time I think also being able to open your devices and so on. Right to repair has gotten a big push in Germany now because we have a new government now and they have it within their agenda to foster this approach. So for me it would be already really great if like every device that I have like laying around especially the bigger ones if I can like open it up. Repair it like exchange with other people that might also know what constantly goes wrong and so on. So I think there is a lot of it would be super great to have mostly open hardware simply in my surrounding because it would make it all a lot easier. And maybe one could also like it's also easier than to if someone has a broken device or device that they don't want to use anymore to really use this directly in order to exchange parts and so on. So the more modular things are as we were just explaining the better and I wonder like what one can do because I feel like there is some more emotion now like like we had a peak 10 years ago also. So but I think now it becomes more and more of the topic to push open hardware also on a political level. So I want to see more products and I want to see them everywhere in the kitchen and in the living room and like so. And for me like like if they are comparable devices like like like I would opt for the for the open ones of course because it's a big advantage. You talked about extensibility and we have Alessandro here. And so in the pocket sampler project we can support potentially any sensor that supports I squared C this standard supported by a lot of sensors and we have circuit Python implemented. We are working with Sigrock so and we have Alessandro here Alessandro you working on a kind of extension or a component that can work together with the pocket time slap it is the open spectrometer and I think this is a very good example. Not just of how hardware extensibility can work but also how we collaborate collaborate in the project. Please tell us a bit more about the open spectrometer and what you can do with it in the future. Yes. So, for the first about the first question. What I envision is this open source hardware reaching out also the laboratory the scientific laboratories and because there is such a need of standardization. The open source movement is good for the really support scientific activities and in in the sense of reproducibility of experiments and the equipment. And like a key was saying it would be great to have a community capacity of building such equipment because you could empower communities that are hard to reach where they where the where the parts are not easy to be. And yes, by standardizing the construction of this equipment, this piece of equipment. We could empower more people to do science and to make analysis and to start and to be able to study the world and the problems around themselves about the spectrometer, the spectrophotometer. This is a tool that tells you what's in your sample. So which chemical compound is in your sample and how much of it there is. This is a very common technique used in biology, biology laboratories and it can let you do very. So a lot of different assays. So tests. And yes, we are seeing we're having some troubles because when you touch so so we have a really powerful sensor and there are some we are seeing that it's not so easy to. To connect it with the pocket science lab, but we are positive because through this experience we are really seeing what's the potential and how to go beyond the. The actual capacity of pocket science lab so I'm really positive about this experience and I'm really looking forward to see when this will. This device will actually work and starting with some workshops to teach about. More complex scientific experiments to people so already to young people so that they can proceed faster in the life science careers. And yes, I think that's a. That's a quick summary. I always find it very exciting when I come to your top lab and we talk about this and we try out the first prototypes of the open spectrometer and you tell me what you can do with the spectrometer because for example you can go into the supermarket and check out fruits and so on. Could you give us a little bit more few more examples. Okay, yes. So the practical applications that we envision is to check. So it works by checking the color analyzing the rainbows of the chemicals so you, you throw some light at the other substance and it reflects a color which is what we see. And yes, I'm family and everything. And if you split this color into a rainbow, you can check how much of each tone of color there is and each chemical has a as a known pattern. And through these you can tell how much nutrients micronutrients are in your fruit in the fruit or vegetable that you're buying how right they are. And then you can make a study to check how nutritious is a food. So a vegetable or a fruit according to his ripening status, and then you can check what's nutritious to you. Or if you have some really fine spectroscopic method you can also tell if the water is contaminated and what's in the water so which which contaminant is it and track it back through knowledge to the source so if there is a contaminant in a river. You can check if it's metal which metal or chemical dye and you can track it back to the source so to the industry which is releasing that into the waters. So these are kind of applications. These tool. So a simple version of these is used in the lab to quantify for example results of PCR tests, which is the one that we use to check the gold standard to check the coronavirus. For example, they covered the 19. So they are called called a QPC are so real time and there is a different type of of of machine and that it has this kind of spectrometers integrated. So it's works with light. So there is a lot of very a lot of applications and yeah, maybe hopefully we will see something soon in the next in the coming year. Yeah, I could imagine like all these kids they're doing you can force. Yeah, and these kind of things where they where they go out in the supermarket test what is really true. Is it really true what's written on the product description. Is it really olive oil and other products are really from that country and so on like trying to find out all kinds of things with the open spectrometer. So that would be so cool because of course also want to lower the price, not these expensive spectrometers that are available but good quality spectrometers for below 200 euros on future even below 100 years that would be really amazing. Thank you very much for giving a few insights here and you should definitely give a talk on the entire thing because it's such a big topic. Thank you. Okay, and we don't have like many hours but we have a few more minutes I think and I would also like to talk a bit about like how we overcame this corona crisis by focusing on different topics, making the PS lab more focusing on software components and we have Alex best man here from Sweden, who also joined the project like, I think a couple of years ago, and Alex, could you talk to us a little bit more about what has been the progress. In the area of circuit python of working on plugging in our libraries into sick rock and maybe not everyone knows what is sick rock. But yeah, would be great if you could share a little bit about the work that has been done here during the crisis and over how we overcame these challenging times. Absolutely. So we have talked already a bit about the extensibility potential of the PS lab. Any sensor that that talks over any of the protocols I could see SPI or you are can seriously be made to work with the PS lab. Each of those every third sensor every such device would need to have its own driver written, basically. But there's already a lot of drivers written out there with suitable licenses for a lot of sensors and devices. And it turns out that a lot of these drivers are implemented in circuit python. So we wanted to see if there was a way that we could reuse these drivers instead of making our own. So we had a diesel project on that this past summer and it was quite successful. And after that diesel project was merged, the PS lab can now use any sensor that has an existing driver written in circuit python with minimal work. And it takes a few lines of code to glue it all together. But there's no need to reimplement the entire driver anymore. That's a big success, I think. And the other project that you mentioned, Mario, is Sigrock. Sigrock is an existing mature application and library for interfacing with a number of sensors and instruments like oscilloscopes and logic analyters and other devices. And so we wanted to see if we could use Sigrock and integrate with the PS lab. And the reason we wanted to do that was because two reasons mainly. Sigrock provides support for, it supports both PC of course, but also Android as does the PS lab. But the PS lab's Android and desktop support are currently implemented in two completely parallel driver stacks. One is written in Java for Android and the other is written in Python for PC. So any work on the driver has to be done twice. So if we could instead replace the drivers with Sigrock, then we could do it in only one place, which would be beneficial for us. In addition to that, the Sigrock project also supports a number of features that we would like to have, but don't have yet. So if we were successful in integrating Sigrock, then we would get those basically for free. That work is not done yet, but it's ongoing. We currently have some communication issues with upstream, but I think that's out of scope for this talk. Yeah, I think that's about it for that. Yeah, thank you very much. And these are the technical aspects and it's great to see that progress. I would also like to get your opinion about the PS lab and the topic of climate change. So practically, we have heard about open hardware. It can be more sustainable in regards to the production, to the logistics, the delivery process, as well as the repairability, I would say. But what are the use cases now of our open hardware project here? Where can the PS lab be used as a solution to technology development or to hold climate change? Could you think of any potential experiments or processes where it could be useful? Yes, absolutely. I mean, one thing that you can do with the PS lab already is you can measure such things as carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere. Yes, that's an example that's relevant to climate change. Being able to understand the world around you is essential, I would say, to hold climate change. I'm hearing something from someone else. Right now I'm having some trouble. Yeah, me too, maybe from backstage or something. No problem, I muted them, I hope it's okay. Alright, thank you. No, still hearing them. Okay, so I don't know, maybe I don't have the rights. Yeah, we understand something. Yeah, I think it's okay. Are there some questions from the audience that we can switch to? I haven't seen any questions posted on the pad. I found one question on the pad. Right now I see four or four not found, so maybe the pad is getting restarted, I don't know. Felix has one. I found the pad and it's still working. And the question that I find is where can people find out more about this amazing project? So they're asking for a link or something to find out more. Okay, so the link is pslab.io. You can just check it out. Please, and yeah, exactly. And we coming to the end of this meeting, as you see, I feel a bit bad because like Hon Phuk didn't have the chance to talk about how we make community efforts. And Daniel also didn't talk so much, but I think we have a couple of minutes left. So Alex, the experiments, what can we do? So like I was saying, the pslab is basically it allows for citizen science. So anyone with a pslab device can do a lot of measurements to learn more about the world around them. And through that, I struggle to find any specific ways to solve climate change through that because it's such an enormous challenge, enormous topic. But just by understanding, just by learning more yourself is I think an essential step, which the pslab and other open hardware projects like it enable. Yeah, absolutely. So we need to understand the world around us in order to solve the problems around us, I understand. Thank you very much, Alex. And yeah, we have like a little bit left and I would like to ask Daniel and Hon Phuk to conclude this session. Daniel, for example, is working hard. Daniel Maslowski is working hard on the desktop app and Hon Phuk brings the community together. So I'd like to invite both of you for the final conversation to wrap up this great get together. We also just saw the website. Thank you very much, Felix, for showing the website. You saw their pictures also of other contributors. And yeah, thank you very much for everyone. So Hon Phuk, Daniel, would you like to use these final minutes for sharing a bit about the community and the development and how people can contribute, maybe? Sure. So yeah, so I just want to say that I'm so grateful to be here, to be involved in the project and to be among you, the people, not only my friends, but the people who give me a lot of energy, a lot of inspiration to continue what I'm doing in the community. So I want to second what Alex said just now. So climate change is a huge topic and it cannot be tackled by just a small group of people we need everyone to involve. And the conversation we are having right now is an example of how bigger problems can be solved by sharing of technology, sharing of so-called resources. And I think I don't need to emphasize the example here anymore, a key way. And Daniel, Veselik already mentioned, or Alessandro, there's so many applications around that we can preference do, but I wanted to make a call for the people out there that we need more people. We need more believers on the right to prepare open source hardware can change something and we need to join together in this movement. So Daniel Malowski, I'm going to pass it over to him. I just want to say that I know Daniel for several years also through the open source community and never stopped like surprised by all the work that he's done so far and continually supporting the project. And it's great to see so many people this by of difficulty during COVID. We know that the last two years have been so challenging for every one of us. But still the people here in this call and a lot of people are there participate in the RC3. And we believe that by coming together, we can do something good. We can train something. And I really hope that this momentum continue to grow among us and inspire more people. Daniel, your final words. Thank you. Yeah, just just a quick thought that just came to me, because we've talked about understanding things and I'm absolutely aligned with Alex here. So it really helps if more and more people understand what's going on in the world to fight things like climate change, but also, well, basically any issue. So reading news, looking at things is always a very good idea. And since the pocket science lab is also open hardware as we already discussed, what you can do, for example, is you can look at the schematics that we have. So that means you can get the full understanding about how the electronics are tied together. And you can also transfer that to other electronics. So it's not a very specific thing. But lots of patterns that you see in electronics can also be found in other devices. So if you are in that situation where one of your other devices breaks, then maybe you can gain the knowledge to, you know, get that thing up and running back again. Because you may see the very same pattern also being used in PS lab. But the core difference maybe that you actually have schematics there. And then maybe you can conclude and see, you know, there are these and these devices here like, you know, specific resistors or capacitors, which have special effects if they are coming together. Or, you know, larger circuits like with MOSFET, for example. We have many of these smaller, let's say, compound circuits also on that board. And that can give you a very, very good understanding of things. And I can tell you, for example, with the sensors that you can attach to the PS lab, you can find the very same stuff in your laptop or in your desktop computer also. So that could be a very good motivation. Thank you very much, Daniel. These were very good final words, actually, and thank you very much for all your work also bring the community together. And I want to point out that we have a code heat contest code heat.org, and where you can even like win some small prizes if you contribute to the pocket science lab project. And yeah, as I said earlier, you can find us on pslap.io with all the links. And you can find Kiri also like on his website for the Lions Forge laser cutter and just like type it into your favorite search engine. Thank you very much for all the panelists. It was a pleasure. Like it was really condensed I love to get all the information here together and I hope we can meet again soon as our like regular meetups that we had from time to time before the corona times but it's great to see you all in good health. And yeah, I'm excited to get the next version of PS lab out there with everyone's work together and we know not everyone could be here today. Some people are like recovering some people are in a challenging time zone. But thank you very much for your work and for your contributions everyone and have a good day. Thanks a lot for the audience. Please connect with us and have a good time here at the RC three. Goodbye everyone. Yeah, thank you very much. Have a nice day.