 The typical strength training fanatic increases their risk of injury. It's true. Getting stronger often makes you more resilient to injury. Not if you do it wrong. A lot of people at lift weights daily actually increase their risk of injury. They make themselves literally more fragile. There's more to that though. A lot more. Yeah. A lot more. It's really, it really has to do with, so a lot of people don't realize that injury plainly is due to weakness, but really what it has to do is being unstable. And what happens if you always strengthen your body in the same planes of motion, right? And this with the same exercises, the ratio of strength that you have in that plane that you always train in proportion to other planes is disproportionate. It's no different than putting a engine in a car that's too powerful for the frame and hit the gas and it twists the frame. So you have all these people that lift weights and they do the same, you know, the best exercise squad. Deadlift bench press, overhead press, but then they never train laterally. They never rotate. They never strengthen their body to accomplish balance. Then they go to the park to throw a Frisbee. Oh, this is where you see people, yeah, fall in the shower and they get hurt or like reach back abruptly to grab something and they throw, you know, their muscle out. And so it's just one of those things that people don't really consider that getting really strong to also if you're not balancing that with stability and mobility, you're, you're leaving yourself open for injury. It took me a long time to realize this because you get a client who's in advanced age, they've been lifting for 15, 20 years and you would think that client is less likely to get injured doing silly stuff, but it was, they always got hurt doing that. It was never when we were deadlifting three or 400 pounds. It was never when we were squatting a bunch of weight or doing exercises in the gym. Yep. It was always like this weird movement out of pulling a weed reaching back to feed your kid in the car. It was always picking up a shampoo bottle down in the shower. It was like, this makes no sense. I don't understand. It took me a long time to figure that out as a trainer. And it realized that it was, it was my fault of neglecting all the different planes of motion and always getting them so strong in like the sagittal plane. There's an ideal ratio of strength with muscles and supporting muscles and agonists, which are the prime movers, antagonists, which are the ones that are, that you are opposing. Like there's this, there's this proper balance that needs to be maintained. And if you get really strong in some and the other ones lag behind that balance is thrown off and then you, you know, look, I experienced this like I'll go in the backyard and throw rocks with my kid and then my shoulder sore yet. I could go overhead press 200 pounds and you know, whatever, and it's because I lack the stability. My prime movers are generating more force than my body can maintain because I don't train those stabilizers. You know what's funny about this? The average person listening who's like, I don't care, I just want to look good. You can tell by the way somebody moves in the way they look, whether or not they're balanced often. In fact, the whole meat head stereotype of the guy walking around looking stiff or whatever. The reason why they look and move stiff is their body is trying to keep them in a particular range of motion. It's literally trying to make them move a particular way because it's trying to protect them from injury. So you're like, wow, that guy looks. Yeah. Don't let him turn and rotate. Yeah, it looks stiff. And this is your rotation. And it's usually the body saying we will only keep you in this range of motion. So, you know, in terms of aesthetics, pictures are different than real life. In real life, aesthetics can also be displayed through movement. Like somebody who moves well, I mean, you can see someone looks all fit, but then they move awkward. They don't look so good. And the reason why I'm saying this, I'm selling this to the average person, right? The average person who could care, they're mainly focused on aesthetics. It's like, you will actually look better if you do this. Not to mention there is a limiter in terms of how much strength you can build that when your body feels like it's too unstable. That's it. You're bench pressing going up. You're deadlifting going up. Well, it's funny because like, I hate using the word functional strength just because it's been bastardized. But it's just one of those things. You got to consider what you're facing with challenges every single day and just like, you know, uneven surfaces that you're walking up or like something that he has to, like something happens. You have to move really fast all of a sudden. That's a big one is like when people have to move fast and then and then slow down really fast. Like both of those things. If you're not training that at all, your body is going to overreact. Your muscle is going to overreact. You're going to pull something, you know, and it's it's just one of those things. If you're not practicing it and you're not training it, you're going to, you're going to get hurt. Well, this is why we say that there's, it would not be ideal to follow any of the programs that we've written indefinitely, except for maybe maps performance and maybe symmetry now. Yeah. And it's because we don't address that specifically. Performance has to be the most complete one in that sense, right? That's what I mean. Right. So it's the only program that you could probably run that indefinitely and never run into this problem. Yeah. And we've covered those bases. You're going to get strong. You're going to look good. You're going to be able to move in different planes, protect yourself, the anti rotation stuff. Have balance. Yeah. Not hitting any huge plateaus or sticking. Yeah. Everybody wants to keep doing maps and a ball over and over again because it builds a lot of strength. Come on. Yeah. But if you follow maps and a ball over and over again, you will start to have problems because there's no lateral movement. It wasn't designed. It wasn't supposed to be that right? There's no lateral movement. There's barely any rotation. I did this with myself with the deadlift. That's one of my favorite exercises and I pushed it for a bit there to see if I could hit a new PR. And I did, but I noticed I kept getting like this low back pain on the side. I couldn't figure out what was going on. I'd slow down my lift. I'd do all kinds of, and then, you know, of course, you're always training other people better than yourself when you're a trainer. I said, what would I do for a client? I'm like, oh, I don't do anything laterally at all. Did some QL work, some lateral sled drags and poof, you know? I feel like a lot of times people feel it coming on. Like they've been training in just that one plane for too long where even for me, when I was bench pressing too long, I just inevitably started to feel like, you know, my shoulders were sort of just forming into that position and then I was getting rigid and then, you know, even then bench pressing started to work against me and I felt a pain and impingement there starting to form. So it's just like you got to listen to your body and you got to actually train so you feel good, not just look good. Well, speaking of the training, did you guys have like specific movements or a movement that you liked for clients? Like to like address this? Like obviously there's not one movement that you just have them do forever, but are like, were there exercises that were like, oh, this was like a go-to movement to address this with all my clients? Yeah, for shoulder stuff, stick dislocates and then just good old basic external rotation, right? The good old rotator cuff exercise was always good. These were of course, general clients, right? Not the super strong. I'd probably have to do something else for them. Then for hips, it would be some kind of a lateral strength training move. This was before I really learned about like priming like we do with maps, prime pro type of stuff. And then the knee, the knee was also lateral. It's funny cause we used to foam roll all the time and then I realized that foam rolling is kind of like a band aid and I had people do like a leg swing like a stupid leg swing and it would help with their knee pain. Yeah, I mean, I try, I try to be sneaky about it and add rotation with pressing or add, you know, rotation wherever I feel like there's an opportunity. One of them, I can, a lot of people give me grief about the Matrix lunges, but I would do this all the time with my clients just to add that in. So it kind of covered the basis of lateral movement and then, you know, the transverse plane but it also step up. Sometimes I would like add that in with different ways to do that with a lateral plane. You know, it's funny, I bet you, you know, many times I did that kind of stuff, not because I understood the benefit of training different planes because I was trying to razzle dazzle my plane. Magic man. It was like, it was like on accident, you know, I did something good for them. Mine was that, so I used to have, so if you had like the boxes in front of me right here and instead of facing the box, I would face side step to the side and I would open the hip, step up to stabilize to touch my toe. And I used to tell my clients that if after I'm long gone and we don't train anymore, if you could just maintain that skill, like keep that skill of everything I've taught you, like, and that's not discounting the value of getting strong in the squad and deadlifting and overhead, probably like all those obviously are incredible movements. But I think it addresses so much in one movement that the ability to be able to perform that movement with good form and technique as you get it into advanced age, I think is such a powerful exercise. Here's a tell tale clue. I don't even think it's a clue. This is like literally what's happening if this happens to you, okay? Because sometimes people hurt themselves and it's, you know, quote unquote freak accident or, you know, something happens, fine. But if you have a repeated issue, which 90% of people watching this who hurt themselves know what I'm talking about, where it's like, yeah, it's always my left shoulder or yeah, it's always my upper back on the right or it's always my low back on the left. It's always my whatever. If you have a repeated injury that pops up every once in a while and then you got to kind of take it to time off and relax and let it go away and then you start training and then it pops up again. That is a clear sign of an imbalance and it's a clear sign that you can fix it. If you have that repeated thing, I have those. Yeah, I think everybody does. I think it's a matter of being aware or self-aware and knowing that and then also the having the tools or the knowledge to know how you go about it because that's the, that's the challenge is like you get something where somebody has like an achy knee and they think it's their knee. You go, oh, I have bad, how many times have you heard I have bad knees when actually has nothing to do with that at all? It's actually weakness and instability in the ankle or the hip that's causing your knee. But you, you interpret that as I have bad knees, right? Whatever, when in reality, yeah, it has nothing to do with that at all. There's weakness and instability somewhere else. I just think, yeah, we're creatures of habit and it's like we just form into the same routine and a lot of people just don't realize the value a lot of times of challenging themselves with, you know, the stuff that's, they're like, oh, this is, I don't like this cause I suck at it or it's like, it's, you know, it's not as sexy and it's not like, you know, purely just driven to build muscle. It's like, you know, it's movement based. You know how many exercises I've waited forever because I wasn't strong at them? Yeah. So stupid. I mean, same, everybody's guilty. I built Bulgarian split stand squats. I didn't do for years cause I'm like, I'm going to grab 20s. My girlfriend at the time would like kill, like smash me with the weight that you can do versus like Bulgarians. I was like super embarrassed. You know, I want to go back to the one that you pointed out, Justin, because I think there's, there's like magic in, in this understanding, right? Like you would take an exercise like a shoulder press, which is a pretty staple movement that everybody would agree that should be in pretty much every routine and you would do it with like a dumbbell or a kettlebell and do it in a spiral motion, right? Right. And so finding ways that you can do traditional movements or like the Matrix Lungs, you brought that one up, right? Or like I said, the opening up with the step up with the, like, if you can find ways to just slightly modify a very traditional movement to add tremendous benefits to it like that, I think that's the key is teaching people how to be able to do that. How to assess in a movement, go like, oh, I've been doing it this way for so long. How do I adjust this to protect myself in other places? An easy way to do is just do it unilaterally, you know? Do it with one side because the other side has to stabilize. That's like a basic, easy hack, you know, for some of that. Yeah, I think that's the probably the easiest and that's why it requires the least amount of programming understanding. Right, right. I would say that because you still would, I think you'd want to do something. No, what you're saying is better. Right. But I'm listening, I'm thinking like, oh, the average person is going to like, yeah, it's like your duo deadlift with a twist or something weird, which you don't want to do, you know? You don't want to do a deadlift with a twist. You know what I mean? I heard Adam say this. Don't get that creative. No. Today's workout program give away is maps power lift. Here's how you can enter to win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. We also have a sale this month on some workout programs. Maps, performances, half off and our extreme fitness bundle of programs is also half off. If you're interested and you want to sign up, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, back to the show. Speaking of interesting round fitness, a study just came out that compared Taichi to cardio for blood pressure. Okay, do you guys know what Taichi? You guys have seen Taichi. Oh, yeah, I do. Taichi is not like in the standard context of what you consider a workout, right? Cardio, you're sweating, you're working. Taichi is like, it's slow, you're moving. It looks more meditative. It's very zen. Yeah, and it's like breath work is part of that. And so that's such a huge key to heart rate, blood pressure and the ability to control that is. It beat cardio for blood pressure, which just goes to show how much of blood pressure issues is due to physiologically, you know, physiological poor health. Sympathetic state. And sympathetic state. Yes, dude. That's it right there. So I love to see that also compared to cold dipping, right? So I had my cousin over the weekend and or my buddy was over and he was asking me about the cold dip. He's, oh man, I really want to do that. I've never, I've never done it before. And I was explaining to him cause he, like again, I think what happens is it gets, it's gone viral. So everybody like looks at it as a challenge. Like can I go and do it? And I remember the first time, the very first time we ever did it when Justin had been the only one that had gone through the Wim Hof training. And this is an old, old video on our YouTube channel where we did the ice bath challenge. Oh, that's right. And you and I had no experience it, but yet we're competitive, right? So my thought process of going into that is like, I can, I can bear it. Like, yeah, I can deal with it. I can tough it out. And there was, there was no chance. Like Justin was in there drinking a beer five minutes later. And I remember like, I remember a minute, minute and a half and it was like, it was, it literally felt physically impossible to keep going. It was, there was no, no amount of grit that I could summon to get through. It was a paradox. You had to relax to make it. Exactly. And so it didn't dawn on me that like, oh my God, like the, the key to this is actually to completely try and calm yourself, which is also the real, the real benefits lie, right? Yup. The ability to calm the heart rate. After your training. Yes. Calm the heart rate down, breathe through it. And then all of a sudden it actually gets true. It gets way easier. But if you try and grit through it. And so when I think of things like the Tai Chi, like it's similar in that fashion of like you're being able to regulate and control your breathing and that has tremendous. I used to be able to get my clients to significantly lower their blood pressure from one reading to the next, simply by having them visualize and relax. Like literally we do a reading, then we do some visualization, relax, deep breathing, do another test. You know, people oftentimes will get high blood pressure tests simply because they're at the doctor syndrome. Yeah. Yeah. Simply because of the doctor. What's it called? White Co-Syndrome. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Where people go in and their blood pressure goes up. Yeah. I'm at the doctor. I mean, just think about too, like how important that is if like, obviously that's a focused moment, right in the time of the day, but like how often that's happening all day long. Yeah. That you're in this like heightened state always and you don't even realize it because that's become your norm. Yeah. Yeah. And then people, they have a really hard time with calming down like even like getting into that parasympathetic stage. Like it's just, it's always like dry. Dude, I've been, that's been a practice for me lately because my, so my three year old is just all of a sudden he decided, and the kids go through this, right? All of a sudden he decided in order to go to sleep, he has to have mom and dad in there with him until he falls asleep. This is like a nightly thing every night. And I'm just so frustrated because we put him down at seven and he tells us, I don't want to sleep. So we're going to lay here, buddy. So last night we're in there laying with them. He's climbing around doing the thing and I could feel myself get frustrated. So I have to kind of bring myself and I'm like, you know, I thought about, I put a pain in context. I'm like, you know, he's not going to want this. Like one day he's going to not want me in his room at all. So that, that brought everything down, but it's still frustrating. I could feel my blood pressure. So this is completely unrelated, but in terms of like trying to flip the script a bit, like I was, I don't know. I caught myself like hammering the boys a lot about video games and stuff. Like just constantly. Okay. You can only have this amount of time and then you take it away and it's a fight and blah, blah, blah. So in plus two, like I'm, I'm kind of trying to find opportunities that I can have conversation and like peer into their world a little bit. So, you know, they're really in the fortnight right now and I'm like, dude, this is stupid. Like what? Like I was just like sitting there, like watching him play. I just kind of like walked around the corner and I was like peering in to see like, well, what's all the fuss about? So I was like, here, let me play. So I just started playing with them and then I was like, I totally suck. You know, I think I told you one time I tried this with like Call of Duty and I was getting my ass kicked and my son was like talking trash to me and I almost choked them out because I just was like, you know, they're not competitive. Yeah, like I'm so competitive. I just like abandoned the idea. Did you throw the controller? No, I was just like, okay, I was just like trying to like calm down. Like, you know, I'm like, I suck and he's trying to like teach me all these things and I'm going through it and they got so excited that I was playing the stupid game and they're like, they'll text and their friends and call and they're like, we're going to, they're trying to teach me now and like I'm going to try and see if I could like carve a window where I'm like, okay, I'm going to focus on trying to actually play and like, you know, find my way in their world just for that minute. You know, I feel like there'll come a time and you guys obviously or either have gone through it or go through it now is like when I all feel challenged with that like that balance, right? Like obviously there's examples. I mean, I brought it up the other day like the kid who taught himself how to drive race cars on, you know, his video game and is now a pro race car driver. Now we know that's an anomaly, right? It's like one in a million or even crazier number than that. But yet there's these opportunities for kids to be able to do stuff like that. And so if my son likes it, he's good at it. How do I balance that? Like wanting him to be able to enjoy that, pursue that, potentially go after that if that's something he wants, but at the same time too, I don't want you to be socially awkward locked in your room. And that's all you do. It's like such a, such a challenging like tackle. We just went extreme and now we've told our the little my three year old that the TV is broken so you can't watch it anymore. And it's way, it's more work, you know, but he's his behaviors way better. But what you said, Justin is interesting because it's so funny. So I have teenagers, right? And trying to connect with teenagers sometimes feels impossible because yeah, you're like the, you know, you're like the dad and you know, what is that? American Pie or whatever, where dad's like, hey, you know, and the son's like, get out of my room, you know, I said the cringiest thing and they totally both stop what they're doing and they laughed at me. But this first time this happened a long time because they're like saying something and I was like, you know, to be cool, you got a zig with everybody's eggs. Oh, and then they were just like stupid thing I've ever heard. Yeah. I'm like, oh man, that did sound good. That didn't really, I thought that was going to land. Yeah. I'm like, ah, that sounded better in my head. No, no. So I try to connect with them. So Jessica sent me this, this clip. There's this, this preacher and he's a really interesting Instagram page and he said, he said, he told a story about his kid and how he was trying to get his kid to come out of the room. Come out of your room. You're in there all the time. Whatever. And then they'd sit there awkwardly, whatever. So then he said, what I did, what I tried was I knocked on my kids door and I said, can I come in? Yeah. Hey, can I come in? Sure. And then I just sat on their bed and hung out and then they just started talking and I tried that with my daughter and it totally worked. Yeah. I knocked on the door. She was, you know, whatever, hanging out and I said, hey, can I just sit here for a bit? Sure. And I sat down and like seven minutes later, we're talking about all kinds of different things. So meeting them where they're at, basically, right? Your kids are playing video games. You're like, let me do this with you and then you got bonding. Well, yeah. And it's just like, I don't know. I just, you get caught in patterns of like, I always felt like I'm just coming down. I'm hammering. I'm hammering. I'm hammering. And of course, I'm still trying to create opportunity to do things outside and be more active and like have like, healthy habits established. But to like, you got to understand like, they're having a lot of fun doing this thing. Yeah. And like, I'm just like, I don't want to be such a tyrant, you know, so just to try and like, I don't know, show them a little bit of like, interest in their world. You know, it was going pretty far. So I was like, I'm going to try really hard to keep it up for a bit. But did you like the game? Or was it? I mean, it's fine. It's, you know, it's not as cool. Isn't it the one that they can actually build like in, in it, right? Within it is Fortnite like that. No, that's Minecraft. I thought you could build your own levels and things like that. I think Fortnite is one of the characters that they try to shoot each other. They're killing each other. But they're like weird looking character. Apparently like Disney just created this whole like map where they just spent like, I don't know, it was like a couple billion or something to, yeah, to create this whole like immersive world where they have like, car wars, they have like all these, yeah, different kind of maps that they use, but in skins, this is a big thing. Is there like, they have, they have very specific like, like outfits and characters that like you can get only in that season. And so you like collect them. And so they're a bit real big on that. Tell me how you guys, you have to be able to see how this connects over the Apple, Google conversation, Apple conversation. Totally. The goggles. Yeah. Imagine, remember we talked about, I remember a long time ago when I brought up, there was people that were like paying for like the, the skins, like digital skins to put like outfits and that was like the future is like, Gucci will not only sell a, you know, a thousand dollar garment, but you could also get a digital version for X amount of dollars. Did I tell you my son got ripped off once for that? He had collected a skin, somebody offered to, no, no, he had offered to buy a skin. He ended up paying the guy money and not getting it in return. It was his first lesson in, in fraud. So I, so think about that. Like, you know how we talked the other day like how you could like digitally put somebody else's face with the Apple goggles. Imagine when you're going to be able to dress them or yourself, like you'll have skins like that. You're like a purple dragon. Yes. I mean, and you'll, you'll, and you'll pay that to be able to do that. And that'll be like a thing, like a guarantee that's going to be a thing. That's weird. Yeah. No, it's, I mean, that's the part that I think I, I worry the most about with my son is that, you know, some of these ones that are so immersive that the things that he does in it, it is more the social interacting than like, you know, actually, I guess I care less about like call of duty, race car games, things that it's just like that. It's like, but if like, this is the way you, if he's substituting real human. Yeah. Like this is like, like, Oh, I'm going to meet my friends and we all meet in fortnight. And that's the only way that we play in some of that. Like, I don't know. And I don't think that the move is as a dad, just, no, you can't do those things. It's more like trying to fill it with other things or there's other things we do first before we do that. So I think some sort of outdoor physical activity, chores, homework, schooling stuff, like checking all those boxes. Orts still and still or sports are played. Yeah, right. Like or like, if we're going to play this in the virtual world, we're going to do this in the real world. And so it's like, you know, I think finding ways to, I mean, it's kind of like the diet thing. Like we always talked about, right? Like the, we know this with adults. Why would it be any different with children? Like, instead of telling them they can't have this thing, it's like trying to add things into their life that, you know, are going to be beneficial for them socially, mentally, and physically. And I think, you know, for me, it was like, I saw a lot of good habits and patterns that like Ethan, especially was like establishing and he, he just got his first job like coaching these, these young kids and in his gymnastics. So great place. So I was like, you know, this is really, I like what he's doing. He's spending extra time. He goes right after school to go coach and then he trains right after that. And this was all in his own accord. And so I was like, you know, like I'm going to try and like do something fun with them. No, you guys are, that's, that's, you guys are doing great with that. Arthur Brooks, he said that there was some data on connecting virtually versus in person. So like FaceTime and stuff like that. And they found that you get the dopamine. Yeah. You miss the oxytocin. You don't get the oxytocin. Yeah. Which, which is the love hormone, right? It, that's the, that's how you develop a connection in love. Yes. Right. But the, but the dopamine without the oxytocin is how you develop. It's like drinking seawater. Like, oh, it's never drinking worse. Yes. And it gets worse and worse and worse. And then you can't figure out why you're anxious and depressed. Right. Because you think you're drinking all this water, but it's not. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, I think that is the area where these kids are missing is they think that they're being social because they're like, what are you talking about? I'm playing with my friends. Yeah. But they're not speaking to diet. You brought up diet. I want to talk about some of Glutide and the GLP one agonist because didn't you say Rogan was going to tell me. So what happened? I listened to that. I mean, I've been listening to a few of his episodes lately where it keeps getting, they keep pointing attention to ozempic specifically and like some people they know that have had gastrointestinal side effects from it and we've heard about the paralysis and that kind of stuff. But yeah, there was there was a really weird one actually that this lady who she claimed that like, she had like skin burns like intergenitals and things like yeah, after using a similar some of Glutide and so they researched that and it was like, Of course not. Yeah. Yeah. No, but it was like weird. Yeah. So weird. What is this honey? Weird articles out there. Yeah, like reporting feedback that they're kind of they're trying to trace it back to the. I mean, remember we called the propaganda war is only going to ramp up. It's a medical intervention. Okay. So it has, there's always going to be potential side effects. The data is pretty good though. It's actually pretty compared to any other weight loss intervention that's ever existed. It crushes them in terms of potential side effects. It risks and effectiveness. Here's the important thing though. I think that because there is some truth to something else that's being said, but people don't understand the context. If you lost weight on your own and all you did was eat less. That's all you did. You just ate less. What your body would do is it would lose fat and it would lose muscle. This is across the board. So the reason why you lose muscle along with the body fat is your body is trying to meet the new energy intake. So it's trying to create balance be no different than you making less money and figuring out how to spend less money to balance it out. So if you just diet, you end up losing body fat and you end up losing muscle. This is why we always say keep your protein intake high. That helps offset it and lift weights that definitely offsets it. Okay, so when people go on some aglutide or another GLP one agonist because there's more that are coming out. They'll lose 10, 15% of body weight pretty consistent. Okay. In the studies where people just do that, they also lose muscle. Well, it's because they're eating less. If they lift weights and eat high approach and make sure they hit their protein intake, they're going to lose body fat and not lose muscle. So that's the muscle loss like thing that people are talking about. It's that people just go on it and do nothing else. It's no different than going on a diet. So I think I'm personally I'm I'm less pro it than I am anti it meaning like I don't. I definitely am not like a huge fan of it. But if I had a client that wanted to use it utilize it. I think that I would communicate exactly that so they understood it because I'm not a fan of it. I'm not a fan of it for these. And the reason why that is is because take that out of the equation. That's all already one of the biggest challenges I ever had as a trainer and coach. We talk about them show it. No, is that clients don't hit enough protein take. Why is it always the number one thing that we say like, Hey, if you're not going to do anything, change anything right now, just go hit your protein intake. Watch what that does for your your overall diet. Watch what it does for your metabolism, what it does for building muscle. If you add in lifting weights and and hitting your protein intake, then that grows even exponentially more. You get leaner, you build muscle. Yeah, but the problem is that hurdle right there in itself is less than half the people even accomplished that. So and my my thought is that the same people that are challenged with doing that consistently are the ones that are most likely to want to buy this. So that's the problem I have now. If you're the person who checks those boxes and you're like out of my protein very consistently and I lift weights, then I see tremendous value in utilizing a tool like that, but that's just not most people. So buyer beware. Yeah, if I was a trainer now training people and this was is available, I would use it as a potential coaching tool. Okay. So in other words, semi-glutide, it makes you eat less. Now it doesn't do so like the other medical interventions that existed before what raises catecholamines, norepinephrine, you know, raises your heart rate. So like stimulant based appetite suppressant like Adderall, right, or something like that will do that. It works through a completely different mechanism in the brain, but it does make you eat less. Now the way I would work with a client is they would use this and then we would learn how to work with the reduced appetite to develop new habits that we can then keep while going off. Yeah, I wouldn't do it without a coach. Yeah, because what will happen is and I'll guarantee this is what will happen. You'll go off and the behaviors will go back to where you were before because appetite goes back up. You've built no behaviors around how to deal with you know, that's how I look at it. I mean, if people are just getting prescribed these medications but they don't have an actual plan with a coach attached work with a coach with a coach. Yeah, because to like you have to apply better behaviors. Like this all has to lead towards healthy behaviors in order for anything good to happen out of it. It's not like a miracle drug. No, it's just what I do like about is what Dr. Seed's kind of brought up when he was on the show about you know, lowering brain inflammation and and providing that ability to make better cognitive decisions. Like it's it's a lot of times it's it's cloudy and it's you know why we're not talking about interrupted. We're not talking about that because the selling point is weight loss. Yeah, I don't even care about the way like I'm all about that. The most exciting thing about the GLP ones is it's potential to help rewire the brain with habits that people use as coping mechanism. So they find in data that studies that people drink. That's the most interesting thing to me. Yeah, the stops smoking cigarettes. They're less likely to gamble. So that's interesting. That's where I think fascinating. Yes, but because people lose weight because that's where a lot of people use. You know, that's how people cope mostly to eat more food or whatever. That's the selling point. You know, even though in my opinion, but if you're going to use it work with a coach, it's no different in my opinion. Well, it's a little different, but it's similar to like hiring a trainer and you show up because you know the trainers waiting for you there. If you always rely on that the second you're not working with the trainer, you're going to stop working out. But if you work with the trainer and then that allows you to take that next step to build that, that behavior, that habit to get things moving, then a trainer can be extremely valuable. That's how I think of something like, like some, you know, speaking of like inflammation in the brain. So with that, did I hear you say that the, the, the Ned's brain blend does that? Is it have, is it got anti-inflammatory properties to it? Like, can abinoids in general can reduce inflammation in general to many cannabinoids? Like, if you, like if you smoke a lot of weed, then we'll have some kind of negative. Because I thought that I thought, obviously smoking weeds inflammatory, but that's also because you're ingesting this hot smoke, right? And then the actual smoke, yes, but if you consume it, it's all anti-inflammatory across the board, but it does cause some pruning of some parts of the brain, which is why you get like the, the memory loss with it. But the brain blend from Ned is pretty amazing. So it doesn't have, it's, it's got cannabinoids that don't have an effect on the body like THC. It's got higher amounts of cannabinoids that have been showed to be pro neuronal health, so the health of the brain. And then there's other compounds in there, like lion's mane that have been shown to be good for the brain as well. And I can really cause I, so I haven't had the effects of it. I haven't had cannabis in like months now, right? Cause I've been off completely. The brain blend, like I feel that big time now. I'll take that within 40 minutes. I remember what it difference it was when I stopped smoking and then you using that. Cause I noticed it before, but not like, like the way I'm like more sensitized now. Yeah. It wasn't so. Do you feel like there's a, like that it peaks or is it one of those things where the more you take it, it starts to compound like other like adaptogens that we've talked about before where it's like, do you feel like the consistency of using it, the effects are compounding? Or do you feel like you feel the most at the beginning because it's novel and then your body kind of plateaus off it. I think the second one. Yeah. I think your body adapts the cannabinoid like like continual chronic cannabinoid use. So I think. So there might even be value in like cycling that are only using it intermittently. Yeah. Or only using it for specific things, right? I'm trying to get this out of it for this event or speaking gauge. Exactly. Yeah. So it's got Bacopa in there. That's for blood flow of the brain. It's got Lyons main in there, which is great for again for growing new, you know, neuronal connections, Siberian ginseng, which is an adaptogen along with all the other cannabinoids. So that's, that's what makes it work so down. Well, it's my, it's, it's my favorite one. That's the one I use before we podcast typically. But I wouldn't use it every single day. I think on a daily basis, I wouldn't, I wouldn't use it. I would use it more like three days a week. Yeah. Type of deal. Or like I said, just cycle on and off or use it intermittently for specific things, right? Like I always found like using like when we would go do live events, like the calming stuff for the sleep blend and things like that. Speaking of, speaking of which, did you know that they're, they did a huge pardon of people in federal prisons for cannabis related? I know they talked about that. Can you look at it up, Doug? I think you have to, it has to be like there's like a certain threshold, but I think they're like pardoning everybody and getting them out of, you know, of course it's election season. They need more voters, right? So. Yeah. Conveniently wait till now. Yeah. I want to know how, I want to know how many and then what are the stipulations like if you went into prison for, I think you can't have other violent, any violent crime or anything like that. I think it's just like, just the cannabis. That's a lot of people though, bro. There's a lot of people in jail for just like moving weed. Oh yeah. So I'm curious to like, there had to been like a, if it was under a certain amount, because if you just let go of everybody who's in jail just for, when you were in the, when you were in the, what does it say Doug? It's for, it's for use and yeah, use and simple possession. Yeah. So not distribution. So if you're a dealer. Okay. Yeah. You're, yeah. As I was saying, because that would like clear a lot of people, you know, there's a lot of people in there for, what was the law? When you were in the space medically, legal in California, yeah, but the federal law was like, not was, what was it like? If there was X amount, if you had X amount, then it was like 10 years. Well, you, well, what the federal law could do is they could come after you for what every individual state would do. So like, say for example, you knew somebody who was sending a pound of weed from California to Florida, every single, Oh, they fly over. They fly over. You are, you could be held to the maximum penalty of that state. And then they get added up? Yes. No way. Yes. Yes. This is how stupid our laws are. I'm not saying that that should be fully legal, but you know, you got child molesters and you got people breaking into houses and she's like, they don't get 35, 50, 100 years. I've heard of people getting hundreds of years in jail. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the dumbest thing. No, it was crazy how and for marijuana of all the things that's so stupid. And so there's a lot of people in prison for stuff like that. Yeah, that or they cross state lines with a bunch of it inside their car or something like that. So that there's, there's a lot of people. That's why I was like, there's no way they're letting go of people that. No, it's just simple possession and stuff like that, which that's even more crazy, right? Can you imagine like getting caught and you got a couple of joints on you or something with that and then going, well, how many states are still like schedule one with it? Uh, not a ton, but there are definitely some. No, I think Texas now is a deeper medical. Yeah. I think it's medical now. If I'm not mistaken, I think Florida is even medical. Okay. But there's some, I think there's a couple of states in the south where you're like, uh-huh. Oh yeah, it's still, there's still places. Yeah. I don't know anymore. There's a lot of, there's some countries. I don't, I think Singapore might even be, I'm not sure, but there's some countries that if they test your blood and they find the THC in there, it's considered possession and you get either executed or life. Executed? Yes. What? Yes. That's crazy. There are countries like that. Is it, isn't Dubai like super strict like that out there? If Dubai finds it in your blood, I think you go to jail for a long ass time. What? Yeah. What do you, are you pulled up, Doug? What do you got for me? Well, 27 states and the district of Columbia have decriminalized small amounts of marijuana. It doesn't give me any specifics on, uh- So half basically. The other ones. But I think Dubai is one of those or if they catch you. Yeah. Somebody got caught in Dubai. Was it? And ended up in jail. Some of them will actually, they still do public caning. I do feel like too. It's at the, it's at the discretion of the, the cop all the time and stuff too. Right. So there's, there's a lot of it is how it's written up. Right. So they can, the reason why I always felt safe doing what we are doing was that I, it was me and my, my partner, uh, business partner, like we, we had clean records. We, we, we did everything that we could. It was, we were operating in the gray, obviously, but like, I did things like I wouldn't got my cultivating license to where I could have up to 99 plants. I got that to where I could be carrying up to 10 pounds on me. And so, and I would, I had that laminated. I would put it like in a diver's bag. I'd have it on there. Somebody wanted to mess with you. Right. Right. So like, if you wanted to come get me, like you had the ability, you absolutely, I could have been in huge trouble for a lot of things, but I was leaning on, okay, I'm trying to operate as legitimately as possible. And so if I get nailed, I'm hoping that that, what's the sketchiest, like most scared besides the, I can't say that on there. Oh, okay. Yeah, I can't say that. I've heard the story. I can tell you people, I know stories of people. There's a lot of sketchy, sketchy stuff for sure that I had to do. What's the, what is the statute of limitations on that? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I'll just start to, I mean, one day we can do an episode. We talk about it when I can't go to jail for all that stuff. Oh yeah. That entails it all. I don't know. What is that? What, like what are, what are the laws on, on that side? And then I know for taxes, it's seven years, right? Huh? I think for taxes, it's seven years if I'm not mistaken. I believe so. They can like, they can go back and check your taxes up to seven years. So if it's like eight years ago, you know, it'll be so interesting too. It's like, how much like, like who's to say that? Like our, this is a show, right? So I'm telling a story, right? So what if I give away your secret? If you need to use that. Like how much, I named shmattum. How like, how much could you, I know a guy once. Yeah. I know a guy who did this. Like, but I mean, there's still, there's still lots of shady business going on like that. So for drug offenses, the prosecution must commence within three years of the offense being committed. According to the law, I'm good. The statute of limitations is in fact, as long as you are in the state of California, this is California specific. Oh, that doesn't count. We're talking federal. Well, federal. Yeah. So you explain that again. So you might say, I heard two things there. I heard like in California, I'm fucked no matter what forever. And then I heard, I think the statute of limitations three years in California, they have to, they have to prosecute you within three years. Oh, that's good. This is all long time ago. So we could talk about that. Yeah. It looks federally. It looks like it's five years. Oh, so you're still good? Yeah. The scariest thing is getting your money back. That's always, it was just curious because when you do still, like no one thinks about that, right? In a, in a situation, in a transaction like that is, is getting the money. Like the money is always the hardest part. It was actually never the marijuana. It was never the cannabis. It was always getting your money. Like if you send somebody 10 pounds or 20 pounds of marijuana, like imagine how much money you're talking about, 60 to $100,000 in cash. Well, that's a big pile of money. And nobody, by the way, has bank stacks of hundreds. So it's like 20s. Yeah. It's like whatever it's like anything, whatever they can put together. And so how do you, how do you get that? How do you pick that up? How do you carry that? Like you're not putting it in a bank anywhere. And so, and if this person is not in the same state as you are, like imagine having to move that. That was always the scariest part. And then in the, in the space, we called that tax, right? Cause you just, you lose, you lose a lot. And it's just part of the, it's just people lose money. Yeah. So even though you're running a business that's cash and in black market or gray market, you still got to pay somebody. You still got to pay your taxes. And that's kind of how you would talk about it. It's just that like, I paid my tax, I lost $30,000 this week cause somebody stole it or got nabbed or whatever the case may be. So, but you don't think about that stuff. You don't think about the, your people are so eager to make the money and you're so focused on that. But then it's like, oh shit, like, how do I actually get that money to me? And then once it finally gets to me, what can I actually do with that? You can't do much. Yeah. If you go buy something over 10, you know, 9 grand, 9 grand. So anything over 9 grand will trigger an automatic flag. So you can't walk in anywhere and buy anything over 9 grand. A car with cash. You can't put more than 9 grand into your bank account at one time without it triggering all these things. So it's like, what do you, what do you do? Well then it's, it sounds like a good problem to have, but you know, you'll never starve, but then it's like, you can't really make any real moves. And we structure society in a way that it does not benefit the cash rich person at all. Like it's, we're about credit, you know, where it's like, it's all about having good credit. And if you don't, if you're not in the system and you're not paying all these high taxes, like you could have all the cash in the world, but you can't even go buy like a suburban home, you know, because you don't have any way to prove you can pay for that loan and you certainly can't go take all that cash there. That's interesting. Speaking of marijuana, you guys see Pearl Jam's coming out with a new album? What? For real? A real one? Or is it like a remake of The Greatest Hits or brand new? Brand new and they're releasing like in a, I don't know, a week or two, like a single off of it. They're the greatest. Excited. They're the greatest. Are they all still together too? There's no one's broken up from it. I think so. I think, I think, I don't know if anybody's died. Interesting play. Have you like dove into like, why now? And what the, what the deal? I mean, I mean, they've still been touring. And the thing is like, I've, I've been trying so hard to get tickets to go to a show I've never been. And they came here to the Bay Area and it was like, you had to be on a waiting list and follow them so to even get a time period to like, try and get a ticket. And like, we, we just never made it. So they're, they're the best. In my opinion, the best, they're the best band of the 90s. Yeah. That's my, that's my 100%. It is sad because it's like, they're like one of the remaining. Oh my God. I didn't even know they did, I didn't know they did a new album in 2020. So Eddie Vedder still, still in it too? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know they did a new album in 2020. Did you know that? No, I didn't. Yeah. I didn't even know they did. Yeah. They did another one. Yeah. Oh my God. I can't wait. But I mean, every other band, it's like their, their front man died. You know, like they were like one of the few grunge bands left. You know, the name is going to be what? Dark Matter. Yeah. Okay. All right. It's on April 19th. So April 19th, it's supposed to drop. Speaking of things that are coming out, did you guys like the movie I am Legend back when it came out? One of the better zombie movie. Yeah. All right. You don't like it that much? I thought it was good. Are you a zombie genre? Do you like it? Yeah, I like it. Yeah. Okay. Was it 48 days later? That was freaky. That's the one that changed the course of zombie movies. Is that a Rob Zombie movie? Is that Rob Zombie who did that? No. Which one did he do? He did. Oh, he did. You don't want to watch his show. That's too much. That's what I thought. What, which one did he do? He did the Thousand Corpses. Yeah. Oh, right? Thousand Corpses. Yeah. Something like that. His movies, I was like, too much. Like you watching like this is I feel like I don't feel good. This is not good. But is it 48 days or 28 days later? What's it go 28 days? It must have been a followup. Yeah. Cause zombie movies got super campy for a while. I'm sorry. Was it? Park two. 48 days later. Exmit it out. Well, no, because you know, zombie movies were remember when we were kids, they were stupid because zombies were slow and everybody made fun of them. Yeah. Then they came out with the thing is 28 days later and they were fast and aggressive and scary and it totally changed. So I am legend was. So anyway, I am legend to was coming out. Oh, really? Yeah, dude. But like Will Smith was in the last one. Is he going to be in this? He is. I don't even remember how that one ended. Do we forgive Will Smith yet? At the very end, it looks like he commits suicide to take out a bunch of them. So obviously he survived or whatever. I think, right? Am I is that the ending of it? Never saw it. I think. Oh, so good. That was good. Good film. It was a good movie. What are you guys talking about? I mean, it was all right. Like I'm not into that stuff at all. You get scared. Yeah. What was that? I forgot. The one series that it was it was a video game series that they had fungus was was the cause. Oh, that was good. Everybody becoming zombies. It was a court. It was a court of steps. Court of steps. I take that every day. Oh, yeah. What was it? You guys were all excited about. I liked the idea of that. Like last year there was like a like a zombie thing like that. That you guys were actually really smart. It was really. So it happened. You guys talked about one time talking about how amazing it was. It wasn't like something I'm like jumping up and down. Oh, so you went to the whole season. Yeah, I saw the whole thing. I watched like half the season and I don't finish it. Yeah. How can you talk about something about how you like it so much and then you can't even finish the. It was a great. It was a great. That should be a rule for now on. I don't want to hear shit from you guys. You've watched a full season of. Why? Yeah. Because it's like concept was like a reputation. Like we're going to get known as like a terrible podcast for recommending shows. Because we're like one episode like this is amazing. Go watch this guys. We're like I didn't even finish the season. It was good. I got good ratings. Is everybody like the creator I was promoting. I got feedback on that. I like the premise. I thought it was a smart. I got some of the smart ones because every eight Netflix was called love lover stalker killer. Okay. So just based on a true story. It's really good. I know Courtney will like it because I know she likes you like murder thriller murder like mystery. And it was like one story. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's it. And it's what are they what do they call that when they reenacted or whatever a doc doc you drama. Yeah. Something like that. Right. So it's like they hire actors but then the then they tell the story. But yeah exactly. The inner they're interviewing the real people. Right. So you're getting to see them and then they narrate the story but then there's people acting out like the whatever happened. But it was one that I can't remember the last time I saw a true story where a true crime story where I'm watching it and I can't figure it out as I'm going through it. Like it was that good. Was that good. We're like until the end you're like get the fuck. Really. Yeah. And then you hear the right they open it up with the with the the cops and the agents of that same like this was the most twisted like story I've ever we've ever had a case we've ever had to solve. So it's really it's really interesting and what's even more interesting about it is that it may never have gotten solved had another group of agents picked it up years later. Really. Yes. How God you imagine being a woman trying to date online nowadays like what with like how do you know you have no idea you're going to let's meet up for lunch. This is a dude. I don't. This is a dude getting stocked what yes it makes it even more interesting to get killed. I'm not going to say I'm not going to say how it goes down. Watch it. You guys will like it. It's just like another dude stocked him because that happens. No as a girl. No. Yeah. It's a girl. That's not spoiling well that's like fatal attraction. Remember fatal attraction. It's rare though. You've got to watch it. You've got to watch it and it also too. It's like it it's intertwined with the you know the online you know plenty of fish and dating online type of stuff too. So it makes you kind of your wheels spin a little bit. So I want I wanted to mention something because I just experienced this again. We've talked about this before. You're out of mentions today. Okay. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm going to go ahead and say. So for a while there I was eating store bought beef and red meat and I didn't piece it together. All this has happened a couple times and I was getting more inflamed because they eat so much red meat and then I went back to the grass fed from Butcher box big difference. It makes a big difference if you eat a lot of meat. It makes a huge difference and I can feel it in my my body and my joints and everything that I Well I think especially somebody like you because of all of us you probably eat the most red meat. You're every day you would wouldn't you say a pound a day. That's a lot of every day even a match that Justin's yeah Justin's up there. I'm a big beef eater. Yeah. Yeah. I want to maybe that's why you're so puffy. You think you're just inflamed all the time. Talk about it. I eat high grade Butcher box meat. He's all this. This is a body fat. Yeah. Just swelling. Actually I've had a lot of people tell me I told me she like looks like no you look coffee in the face. I told you that's it's always when I feel like myself right now. Adam always comes to you when he's feeling bad. Yeah. Yeah. I feel I felt yeah every time we pass the green shop. He's like I bring him in you know like dude our faces look a little fat lately. You know what I'm saying our hour. Like we're losing muscle. Can you tell me I still get messages from that interview we did with where I look like bro it's because we were in London. I was eating hella gluten and whatever. I looked at that. I think that was war. Why is my face looks like it's a camera. It was a camera. No it wasn't. My face was that big. It was. Oh yeah. No I look like Charlie Brown. You look like a big old planet. What's that one cartoon that kids watch. I just made Ryan hate it. Looks like the is it the kids bald. It looks like it doesn't look like as well. Caillou. Yes. Annoying. What is that? Caillou. Do you ever watch Caillou? No I'm not. I'm the most annoying cartoon ever made. The stupidest most annoying cartoon of all time. Oh really? Yeah. And it's like this big bald kid. Like you know we think about something's wrong with that kid. Why is he. Yeah. Why is he. Maybe there was something and so now we're assholes. Yeah. Matt I tell you I've probably been the most lenient on the iPad and TV lately because Max has fallen in love with this numbers. Oh well he's just learning like crazy. Yes. Let him learn. He doesn't even know what he's doing multiplication. Like he does because he's just singing the songs that are in the show and stuff and I'm like. That's awesome. Yeah I was like there's not often like I'm dad's super pro watching cartoons but this cartoon is like teaching him math and it's brilliant. So I told you we told that my son the TV is broken right. So like the TV is broken but he still tries and he's like well let's do this. Let's do the iPad. So I just you know every once in a while you see a trait of yourself and your kid and your ego just puffs up a little bit. Right. So he goes up to he goes up to Jessica and he goes and he goes with his hands. He goes so mom what are those videos called where you learn from them? She's like educational because yeah can I watch an educational video? I'm in the kitchen I'm dying like he's trying to sell his mom on watching something salesman in action. Oh yeah I was like it was pride you know I told I told I said let him have this one. Let him have it. Let him win some time. Let him win a little bit because that was a good that was for a three year old. That was good. Educational. Right, right, right. It's more on the way here like Katrina text me she said Max caught her off guard because she was telling him I guess the last couple of days at school he hasn't been eating his lunch and so she's telling him before that she's dropping him off. Hey today you need to make sure you eat your lunch. I saw you didn't eat your lunch. She goes why what will happen if she was like oops yeah she had to like think about what am I going to do if you don't do that right. I was so caught off guard the best thing I come up was like when you won't be able to have any of your snacks and I was like okay I've made sense but she's like yeah he's now at that age where we're starting to challenge things like that and you better be on your toes to be able to explain it that was something a commitment I've made myself is that I don't ever want to default to because daddy told you that's right like I always want and it's hard because they catch you off guard like not just that you just want to do what you want right you know right really you want them to do it because they understand that's right not because of you that's right and I I think that as parents it's it's really easy to default because I'm dad and I said so do what I said yeah and it's like that's how I grew up so I challenged myself to like in those moments like you know and it can be obviously a pain in the ass because it goes deeper and deeper right why why why why it's like yeah but I want to be able to explain the logic of why I'm telling you we're making you do these things not simply because dad told you so and so it's always funny though when they he catches you off guard because you're not always ready for the why or what will happen or whatever it's like this this is how I heard it communicate because I grew up like that I grew up like you just this way I think all of us do that was like our generation was yeah most people yeah the way I was it was explained to me where it made sense it's like do you not rob a bank because you're afraid of going to jail or because it's wrong right there's a big difference I was like okay I can see that yeah and I also I mean I want my son to be able to challenge authority intelligent yes right yes and so just he's going to be told to do a lot that's right so I don't want I don't want because I'm the authority in the house and I told you so you have to just listen to authority I'm pretty sure with your genetics he's going to question yeah I'm pretty sure he's going to do whatever he's already he's already doing that the hardest thing for me right now is he's he's so he's a he's a very sensitive kid like so like that's the the challenge right now is like you know his he is he will default to like crying like that he's you know like someone takes something from him like that right now we're having to work with that like if when other kids either bully or take stuff like that it's teaching him how to stand up for himself and not just come cry no no we don't punch him in the face that's right yes push him down when he's in the sandbox push him down it feels better than crying no don't do that but that that I can tell already like that would be that'll be our challenge is you know he he'll he'll default he's such a sweet kid that he defaults to the the crying over something like that and it's like I'm trying to get him to no no we don't cry with that use our words my my son and my brother son they'll get together and they'll fight with each other 60% of the time and then 40% of time they'll play with each other but when they fight it is hilarious we got to separate them yeah then they'll take one toy and then but they were together a few weeks ago and my my son took something from him my brother's son took it back so I really hit some right so he holds his face we separate them okay 40 minutes later okay 40 minutes later they're leaving to say goodbye say goodbye to each other and they walk up to each other and you know my my nephew Angelo looks at my and he remember he looked at him boom hit him back no right before he left bro oh we were oh laughing so hard damn my brother and I were like oh no we're cracking up oh my god oh my god yeah so do the okay so in this situation do the do the wives freak out no they're really good okay everybody's yeah they're really good about it and you know like you know if he hits the other kid you go and take care of the other kid first to show them like hey this isn't no are you okay and hey if you do that I'm not going to do that you can't do that anymore type of deal but they're going to do I mean I was a kid my oh my god me my cousins and I used to fight all the time oh yeah all the time it was you had I mean it was a royal rumble you have mainly you have what we just explained the the extreme opposites of the spectrum right you have your son who's like quick to defend himself like take my shit you know what I'm saying you have my son who's going to default and go to crying it's like and you want something in the middle right you want him to be they have to learn right you want him to be able to stand up for himself but then also not just resort to violence or they learned a rate it's what's called self-regulation right what they're learning is how to how to self-regulate right that type of deal so but anyway watching it's kind of funny especially my brother and I because we're just cracking up what do we what do we shout out are we shout out the the certification that's happening here I would say so let's what's the dates on that you talking about shallows yeah yeah prescript he'll be doing he'll be hosting here at Mind Pump and Jordan shallow one of the smartest people in our space period and the story now what and he also is like he walks the walk the dude isn't just the a scholar he's also a power lifter and trains athletes no he's brilliant guys amazing what okay what are we doing though for our audience I know that if the first is it 10 so the first 10 can actually come into the studio and watch a recording okay and then everybody else will have a Q&A session with us okay I can meet and greet as well this is what of the day before swag bag so on Friday so what we're doing so March 15th is the Q&A it says here and then it says 16th and 17th which I think is Saturday and Sunday okay so if I believe if this is correct that's correct is that right so and as so everybody if you sign up for this and you're you come to the thing with Jordan you have the option to come a day early hang out with us here we'll do we'll do a live Q&A for I don't know how many hours that Katrina's blocked off for us the first 10 people to sign up for this like right now we'll have the opportunity to watch a live recording also awesome and you go to it's pre-script dot com forward slash mind is that L L one one yes L one they need a better up down down left right left A B start yeah he'll be in the show notes yeah it's in the show notes so check it out yeah refer to that at this point you've probably heard that probiotics can greatly improve your health it's true the right probiotics can make a difference with gut health brain health and some studies shown to reduce anxiety and even depression most people notice an improvement in their skin and their digestive system anyway there's a company called seed they make the world's best probiotic hands down these are the world's leading researchers that have constructed this company this is a probiotic that actually delivers so if you've tried probiotics try seed this one will blow you away anyway go to seed dot com forward slash mind pump use the code to five mine pump and get 25 percent off your first month's order of seeds daily symbiotic alright back to the show our first caller is Daniel from Switzerland Daniel what's up what's going on hey guys what's happening oh my god that's this is the surreal moment it's crazy how can we help you nice to see you thank you right so I'm just going to jump in my my question the email I wrote so I love the podcast really appreciate what you guys do so I'm 38 years old I live in Switzerland I've been training on and off for the past few years but now I'm very consistent since December 2021 and I'm going to the gym five times a week Monday to Friday after work I follow a body split body part split program and visually I sent in some pictures I think I'm maybe at 17 or 18 percent body fat could be more I look and feel great compared to what I was in my 20s I'm 38 now as I said and I feel that maybe I should start TRT I do have low energy levels but I haven't test well I didn't get tested because it's a bit difficult to get tested here in Switzerland but I finally convinced my doctor to test and I came back at 377 I'm really in it if I want to go into TRT for losing body fat mainly aesthetics I can finally see my abs so I really like that but I would like to look more into you know getting shredded and more ripped I'm leaning towards your either maps anabolic or aesthetics but when I sent in this question I was thinking about bad about that but I ended up buying aesthetics in your Black Friday sale so I'm at phase three right now but yeah just would love to hear about TRT and but also think that seems like lifelong solution and also very quickly I'm a short guy I'm five feet four inches so I have small wrists I do dumbbell bench press with 34 kilograms each dumbbell but getting the dumbbell from the rack to the bench is a struggle how do I improve my grip strength okay all right let's start with the testosterone so what would be clinically labeled as low testosterone would be below 300 nano I think it's what is it nanograms per nanoliter I don't know the nanograms per deciliter sorry so you're you're on the cusp right if you're suffering from symptoms of low testosterone and you're on the line then you would want to talk to a hormone specialist that does this and see if they'll if they'll work with you the typical general practitioner will go right off of the what they're what what their numbers say which is they typically won't give a man testosterone if he's in child you know like infertility years right years where you're going to want to want to have a child if you don't have kids they're going to be very reluctant to put you on testosterone because it can make it so that you can't have kids unless your testosterone is like below 300 right but you're on the line you've got symptoms of low testosterone there's lots of things that people can do with their lifestyle to raise their testosterone I've seen some quite successful changes with people and in typically what they'll do is they'll base it off of the number and symptoms so it's a combination of both so like someone who's you know 400 but they have symptoms of low testosterone they'll get put on TRT or somebody who's at 400 and has and feels perfectly fine they won't be put on TRT so it's a combination of things when you speak to the actual specialist as far as grips strength is concerned you would want to do you know one or two sets of specific great grip strengthening exercises when you work out maybe your back or your biceps is typically a good combination so like a set of a dumbbell hold or a farmer walk is usually enough to speed up the process of strengthening the grip and then using chalk typically helps and if you work out in a gym that doesn't allow using chalk then you can use liquid chalk which most gyms are totally fine with what is what is the rest of your your day slash life look like what do you do for work and you know what's your sleep routine like and do you have like normal hours like tell me a little bit about like your like your routine and your your daily life so I'm I'm an accountant so I have a very sad no just very desk job I I said on my on the desk eight hours my sleep is really bad I have I was diagnosed with sleep apnea and I have the CPAP machine which which is just a nightmare to to be on the whole night I have a six-year-old who comes at about three o'clock at night in our bed and then one of us which is really me have to go in the guest room and I'm not going to you know take my machine with me at three o'clock at night so after that sleep is just is really bad and and that may be one of the causes of my low T oh yeah oh yeah probably the major one yeah you could I mean fixing your sleep could could raise your testosterone by 50 60 percent I want to put you well in a nice range I want to send you a different program of ours to because I don't think maps aesthetic is the most appropriate for what you got going on right now so I would do maps anabolic so I'll send I'll send maps 15 15 yeah maps anabolic or maps 15 either one or fun I must send you maps anabolic just because that's our foundational program and I think that between that and really solving the the bed thing is is going to like sleep is going to be a huge and I don't know if that means before getting it interrupted you move your stuff into the other room and you actually start the night out sleeping in the in the guest room I know obviously for marriage that's not always the most ideal situation but you know maybe maybe you guys hang out and then right before she falls asleep that's when you kind of cut out and then go to the other room just because you know that's going to happen to you because getting your sleep disrupted every night like that and then not being able to have your machine that helps you get into deep sleep is 100% affecting your hormone levels I mean that's probably the main reason why you feel tired or slash weak and that your t art in your testosterone levels are low and so solving that while simultaneously scaling back on the volume in your training those two things alone should you should see positive benefits in the building muscle leaning out direction for sure totally you got to train appropriately and fix your sleep I've seen the person's testosterone double just from fixing their sleep I mean I've had yeah especially when it's low I like my routine of going to the gym five times a week like the work week so that I have a routine and I and if I miss one day I just feel so bad is is there a version of anabolic in which maybe I can split something so I'm going every go to the gym and do and walk and do some mobility I mean you can still take that time for yourself but just too much volume especially with crappy sleep is going to I mean you're not helping yourself there's two ways you could do that you could cut anabolic in half and literally make it into a six day routine okay so that's what you could cut the work out in half like that and make it a six day routine or you can do what Sal's alluding to which is you still train the three full days but then on the other days you go to the gym you're walking you're stretching maybe doing some sauna meditating you're doing things that are more recuperative for your body on the other day so either one of those ways would be better at any either one of those options is a better option than maps aesthetic for where you're currently at right now maps aesthetic is one of our highest volume training programs and I know it it obviously a lot of people are are drawn to it because it is the program to get you shredded and lean in aesthetics and so people are drawn but because nothing is going to make a bigger difference on you getting ripped more than that that will show you the progress that you're looking for and your training more than anything else will so addressing that I think is the top priority I think I think maps in a box a great program for you however I do think the maps 15 has that structure already built in so if you wanted to just follow off of that as the the main sort of blueprint you know that would be my recommendation Daniel we've lost your video might have lost him all your yeah boy kids are paying ass I swear my kids it's just it's almost like four or five days a week there's some kind of disrupted sleep oh yeah one of them I'm still dealing with that and he's 11 I mean he'll come in and it'll be like different times of the night because something scared him and so we actually have this like huge beanbag now here's here's the option or or I go putting back the bed one of the other yeah I think that you know I obviously I know it's not the most ideal situation for a married couple to sleep in different beds but there comes a point here where they mean you're your hormone levels are like this you're tired like so I think the move I would do is I'd spend my quality time with my wife you know ie that we'd have sex whatever it is and then when it's time for her to go to bed or us go to sleep I would break off and go head to the other room and sleep in the other room that because the fact that he's got sleep apnea and on top of that it's getting disrupted is like that's like a double whammy for him and getting up in the middle night not moving his machine and then thinking he's going to fall back and and have good good sleep is just he's missing out on that spoon in and take off yeah that's just and it's so important to recovery and if you're and then the program aesthetic is not the right program for him for what he's going through right now way too much you got to solve that so I think that that you know and sometimes that's not what people want to hear because it's not like a you know that's that they think is going to get them the most shredded but that that is what's going to get you the most shredded is by solving the the sleep issue and that's probably what I would do which is I would just I'd sleep in the other room our next colors Adrian from Maryland Adrian how can we help you hi um sorry I'm a little nervous um I just wanted to apologize to Doug my grammar and my email was awful no worries so just a little background and then I'll do the question okay I'm 54 I was in the army for almost 21 years so that meant about four to five days a week of running and two days of body weight or calisthenics um I've been retired down for 15 years and during that time I've run um sporadically I've done five k's a couple of 15 k's and some weightlifting videos at home um I gained the retirement 25 pounds the college 15 pounds and the divorce 20 pounds hahahaha that's good hahahaha so recently I've also recovered from plantar fasciitis in both of my feet and a pulled muscle behind one of my knees uh I started lifting consistently about two years ago to help with the knee pain and so now I feel really good I don't have any pain and I've also been working on building muscle and cleaning up my diet uh so now I'm ready to start cutting um I'm at that point where you're always saying gain some weight you know you know don't worry about losing the weight work on building muscle and bulking a little bit and so now I'm at that part um so I worry about retaining muscle as I lose weight um I really like feeling stronger and being mobile I feel really solid I stretch and I do the mobility at least once a week I'm currently doing anabolic advance for the second time and I've done anabolic but I prefer the upper and lower body split I keep my cardio to less than 20 minutes most days when I do them mostly walking with intervals incline or spin bike and I started running um intervals just a couple of times a month to um for a little bit of change and plus I enjoy the effects of running so um to lose weight I know I have to lower my calories should I concentrate on lifting the same amount of weight that I am now how do I know that my muscles are still adapting and I'm not in the recovery trap and what are some signs that my metabolism is getting better or at least I'm not getting worse you know how many calories you're currently consuming Adrian um I'd be about 21 2200 okay and you're tracking on a regular basis or is this an estimate um I'm trying to I do really good most days up until you know dinner time and then um you know I might snack a little bit after okay so we don't know we don't know how many calories you're consuming okay have you worked with a trainer a one is it is that feasible for you to hire a trainer or work with somebody um not right now not right now I can't um just the cost and um I don't even know where I would get one right now got it um yeah no problem okay so a couple things based off of your past and what you're currently doing um I think you're working out too much and too hard for yourself just based off of the information that you're giving me and some of the struggles you're having the plantar fasciitis your history in the military um you know how you're talking about your workouts I don't think anabolic advanced is appropriate uh for you and I don't think that the intervals are a good idea for you I think we need to keep you with much lower volume of training but then with the diet we need to know specifically you know the the guessing and then cutting cutting it off at dinner it could be all over the place and people are notoriously I couldn't give you anything within I'm going to be off by 20% of my calories and I know what I'm doing just if I try to guess where I'm at and I've had I mean I've done this many many times to know that um you're just not going to know where you're at so we need to know where your calories are at on a consistent basis before we can even attempt to cut as far as a workout is concerned anabolic is fine mass 15 would probably be even better you could do the advanced version and then I would track steps and I wouldn't do anything that's interval based I would love if I'll do this for you if you do something for me so I would love for you to use either fat secret or my fitness pal to track for a week consistently not missing anything I'm going to have Doug put you in the form for free and then if you try and then I would also like you to track your steps if you give me that a week a week of tracking your food and a week of tracking and don't don't change anything I don't change anything don't try to impress me I do do what you do so I know what you what's a normal week for you so just do what you normally do but track it diligently for a week both steps and what you eat and then I want you to to post it and tag me in the forum so I can assess it and then from there I'll give you even better advice as far as what to do with the calories what to do with movement I agree with Sal anabolic or symmetry would probably be the program one of those two programs would be the program I would have pushed you towards so I think you that's the right choice but what I'll do is I will give you specific step advice and calorie advice when I get an idea of what a consistent week looks like on what we should do because what I don't know and it would be interesting to see is how much your movement in relation to where your calories is if I really want to cut that much right now or do I want to continue to focus on reverse dieting and then I also want to be able to see how consistent you are with hitting those protein targets every day because for sure if we cut calories and you're missing your protein intake significantly we're going to lose muscle and that would be my main my number one focus was to make sure that we hang on to any bit of a muscle that you've built over the last year to training do you and tracking the macro is going to be really important because if we don't if we're not sure what your calories are you're probably not also sure what your protein intake is is that correct I have been shooting for at least a hundred and twenty hundred and fifty a day but I I'm probably missing it okay yeah we need we need to know you give me that for a week and I'm going to be able to give you really good advice totally do you do you drink alcohol do you have how many drinks a week do you have or do you not maybe two drinks a year okay good okay and I ask that because sometimes people don't add that in their tracking and I've had clients where they were tracking they didn't add that and then I'm like oh we got to add that so you want to track everything including including fluids don't change anything be very accurate and then Adam will be able to give you much better specifics because you know we could try to give you advice right now but it's going to be based off of guessing and it would be like trying to assess how to fix a car without doing an assessment and I don't want to tell you to cut calories right now if that's not the best advice I won't know that until I kind of get an idea a better idea of what you're doing in a regular week and then from there I'll give you much better advice on the direction that we might we might just hang out where you are calorie-wise and just make a better effort towards protein intake and give you a better workout routine that might that might right there send us in the right direction or maybe you are eating 23 to 2500 calories and you're hitting plenty of protein and you could easily cut 200 or 300 calories increase our steps by a couple thousand and see great fat loss so let me see that you give that for me you do that for me and then I'll tell you what to go from there okay yeah I already have antibiotics oh beautiful great we'll put you in the forum then okay make sure you tag all of us okay Adrian okay a little bit different than I was expecting but I appreciate it yeah yeah that's what I need that's what I need yeah yeah we want to give you the right answer we don't want to just give you an answer that's because we give you the wrong answer we don't want you to go down the wrong path we got you you're in the forum you're in the family we'll take care of you from here well thank you alright Adrian thank you thank you sweet yeah sweetly most people do you think she was an alcoholic or something no no no just because of her age that was so random you asked that no no no you know why because the clients that I typically would mess up with that and it just occurred to me we're all typically people in their 50s and they wouldn't track it so because you're telling her to track I'm like Adrian wasn't tracking any of the rest of her food so it's like yeah and then she wouldn't track there's a lot of those things that sneak in totally totally yeah I have a feeling what we're going to see is this is my guess let's see if I'm right I'm thinking she's going to be low calorie socially going to be in the 2000 range at the highest probably in that range I think she's going to be missing protein almost days and I don't think the advice would be to cut calories quite yet I think the advice is take protein and take yeah and then move to a better program and then I don't I'm really curious to see what her steps are so I hope she and remind her in the email Doug for me please to track her step I know I told her that but I just want to make sure she does that too because that will give me an idea for activity level because she's retired right is that what I got from her so she's retired and if her only activity is the you know a little bit of then it's not much yeah exactly steady state cardio and lifting then she might not much and simply putting her on a walk for you know an hour a day too could be like game changing and I mean just one other thing is that it's almost like clockwork where we have someone call in or even send an email and they'll pick a program that one of our programs and it's typically one that's too much volume they almost never go with the appropriate program and based off which the anabolic advanced you know I'll be surprised if that's the appropriate place for her to start I think anabolic would be good two days a week our next caller is Holly from Minnesota hi Holly how can we help you hi hi guys it is so exciting to talk to you I can't even believe I'm doing this today so thank you so much for taking my question and like everyone says I just want to pass on my gratitude to you guys for all that you do in this space as you know the health and fitness space can have some really interesting and toxic perspectives and I just want to thank you guys for all the positive stuff you put out there it's been transformative in my life and I just want you to know how much of a difference you make so yeah I'll just get right into my question I'm going to read it so I don't get sidetracked I do that sometimes so my overarching question to you guys is I know you guys get frustrated when the science crowd knocks reverse dieting so I'm curious what you'd advise when they try it and it doesn't seem like it works for them are there limits to reverse dieting and what are they are some people just not good candidates for it I hear people talk about reverse dieting like it's as simple as eating slightly more over time and training to build muscle but when I tried it something just didn't really seem to click for me so just a little bit of background for most of my fitness journey I was an intuitive eater and I had a lot of success 100% body fat and gained lots of muscle over the course of a couple of years cycling through as many maps programs as I could and just eating whole natural foods about 90% of the time and then the reason I decided to try a reverse diet was not really because I was unhappy with how things were going but really because I've never done a true both before I was wondering what I might have been leaving on the table and wondering if a higher I just wanted to chase a goal again I also really love food so anything that gets me to eat more food I'm all about it I didn't know my exact maintenance calories since I was intuitively eating but when I got the idea to try this reverse dieting thing I prepared for it in advance by signing up for a macro coaching app that has an algorithm to estimate my calorie expenditure based on my nutrition info that I input and a graph of my weight starting and I found my maintenance range to be about 2200 to 2300 calories so with that info in September I started the process with anabolic advanced I started weighing 130 pounds I'm 5'2 and about 20% body fat I added an extra 60 to 80 calories a day to start and the first two to three weeks actually went pretty well I didn't gain anything and maybe even dropped a pound so I was feeling pretty excited so then I added 30 to 80 calories or so but this time the weight seemed to come on really fast and almost make up for what I didn't gain for in the first few weeks I tried to give it some time to level out but I was watching my weight trend graph in the app and it was still steadily climbing up and not really leveling out it just seemed like I was kind of in a full on bulk not a reverse diet sign I was putting on some muscle but when I did my circumference measurements I did put on about an inch on my waist as well so I'm just kind of interested in your thoughts on what maybe I did wrong or what I'm not understanding about the process let's get more specific you said your weight was coming on fast I'm not sure you did anything wrong with an extra 60 calories a day what how much a week okay so a pound a week yeah I think you were probably doing great yeah you're doing good also a pound a week at 60 pounds surplus something was off there and we'd want to get more of an accurate measurement okay because water fluctuations can more than make up for that especially with a woman okay women will see water fluctuations much more than men typically will because of hormonal changes testing and training with body fat tests is a better gauge than even circumference measurements even circumference measurements around the waist can be misleading especially again with women with water gain water drop could be digestive stuff you can see a swing in the waist by two inches sometimes so it's really tough to say I think it's also important to note something that you commented on that is normally a sign that we're doing things really well typically means a good sign that's normally a good sign that's normally meaning that your metabolism is starting to speed up and your body's trying to tell you we need to feed it even more calories what was going on with your strength in the gym were you saying the same were you getting stronger how were your lifts oh it was it was really good I was doing anabolic advanced and since I had been doing mostly intuitive eating I was used to getting stronger but then much faster the needle moved that way so that was exciting you were going in the right direction I think you were doing great if you were my client and we were going through this I would just be kind of coaching you on just be patient let's just stay the course right now even if you think that a pound a week is I mean a pound a week every week for ten weeks straight maybe we were to back off but a pound a week just for a few weeks in a row I'm not really worried about that at all and that's how transitional feedback that I'm getting stronger and my appetite is up if you didn't give me those cues and muscle gain is almost always in short spurts it's never like I gain this consistent amount of muscle over time it's almost like I get stronger I get stronger I get stronger then boom three pounds of muscle and then I get stronger so it's you grow in spurts with muscle it's not this like consistent kind of gain and because your strength went up your energy was it good to feel otherwise yeah yeah I'm actually like I was having a lot of fun with it at first but then you know I don't really care so much about the number on the scale but I will admit when I saw my waist measurements going up that that really kind of disturbed me a little bit and that kind of took some of the fun out of it the biggest the biggest hurdle for reverse dieting is always mental always mental and it's it's always something like that like I feel good I'm stronger and then I'll do some kind of a measurement or something like that or they'll put something on and then it'll freak them out and it's oh I gotta I mean look a 60 calorie surplus you wouldn't even be able to gain a pound of body fat in a week with a 60 calorie surplus do you have almost be impossible do you have any food intolerances or any kind of issues by any chance no I don't have any issues and no food intolerances that have that you know I've ever really noticed or anything yeah I mean do and here's the thing with circumference measurement measure it first time in the morning and be consistent with it also a waist measurement can change and fluctuate pretty huge from morning to evening yeah but I like body fat testing but even body fat testing can be off from test to test you want to look at the general trend but really pay attention more to how you feel yeah than anything like how do I feel how's my performance in the gym am I stiff am I energy am I stronger I mean I've had female clients gain seven pounds on the scale not know it because I don't let them see it and then have comments from family members that they look like they lost weight yet so I mean Holly I think you were doing great yeah I really think you were I think you did a perfect amount of adding back in I mean all the signs so what I when I'm like looking at the scale the circumference even body fat percentage the only real reason why I want to know this I just want those numbers in addition to hearing what you have to say to me like if you told me I don't know I'm not feeling any better you know I'm not stronger it's hard for me to eat this food I don't feel stronger and then on top of that I'm seeing the numbers aren't moving in the direction positively for us okay I might readjust our plan but if you're telling me oh my god I might feel good I'm hungry and you're like the strength gains are coming on I don't even give a shit I don't even care I'm like stay the course we're going to keep listening to this body until I start to see something that either jumps out at me that I need a reverse course but what I'm hearing from you is like this is working and this is heading the right direction and that's such a small surplus your metabolism can fluctuate more than that on its own like 60 calories surplus I wouldn't even necessarily count it as a surplus because your measurement could be off by 5% with your food even if you look at how many excess calories are required to turn into a pound of body fat that would not turn into a pound of body fat I would think it would take something like three weeks at an actual surplus of 60 calories to turn into one pound of body fat so I think you kind of got in your head a little bit and you're already strong now the first question was is there a limit to reverse like you're not going to get your metabolism to burn I don't think you're near that I think you're perfectly fine your calories are in the low 2000s your 5-2 it says your body fat is around 20% you're saying you're pretty muscular already so are you identifying that you've got good muscle development I mean how much strength did you did you see go up during that period would you mind giving me some numbers or some kind of context yeah so after I finished metabolic advance I was actually going to do a power lifting meat at my gym low-key one I actually ended up being sick and couldn't participate but I was for a few weeks leading up to it I worked with a trainer to kind of test what I should aim for for when I go into that power lifting meat and I was able to squat about 215 I was about 255 for deadlift and for benches about 140 that's great what did you start where did those numbers start how much did that improve when you started this well the last time I tried to do a squat like a peak squat I was about 200 I think so 15 pound increase in your squat that's phenomenal yeah I mean what about your deadlift and your bench press deadlift has always been a tricky one I've injured myself a few times now I think I have my form down really well on that but prior to this I think the last time I tried to get close to top on deadlift was probably about 240 the bench I think was about 135 yeah so like 15 pound gains on everything that's phenomenal and your numbers were good to begin with I think you're doing good Holly yeah you're doing good how long have you been working out for so I started lifting about three like lifting consistently three years ago before that on and off I started with just like a strength class at the gym but then after like four or five months I started maps anabolic and once I did that I was just kind of hooked on maps programs because I saw so much faster progress than I did in the classes and you're kicking ass yeah so I just I went anabolic performance aesthetic and symmetry and I've gone through so many at this point it's been so much fun to see what sort of things I learned in each one you're kicking ass those are great lifts the five two to be able to lift that much you're doing great and do you do cardio do you do track your steps do you do anything else so I was tracking these steps I haven't worn my tracker in a while but I'm typically between seven and 10,000 I don't really I don't do a lot of cardio I just do some walking and then occasionally I'll do like 15 to 20 minutes of zone two like on the elliptical or something when I'm done lifting you're doing great Holly I want to put you in the form just so I can remind you how awesome you are so that's how you just need you just need someone to tell you that you're a 130 pound girl 20% body fat which is good squatting 215 15 pound gain from before consistent for three years your calories are 22 to 2300 calorie I mean you're you're doing really good I think you just got in your head and that was a small reverse diet I wouldn't have reversed I did you at 60 to 80 calories I would have had you go up to 100 at least at the very minimum so you're doing good okay I had a feeling you were going to tell me I was just impatient but I wanted to hear it from you I guess yeah you're doing good we're going to put you in the form and then if you feel like this again I want you to message us in there tell us what's been going on and then we can talk you off by the way side note if you feel good at the calories you're eating and you feel healthy and you're satisfied you know small bulks are great to build strength but don't feel obligated to have to go and reverse diet to try and get that up I mean the idea is to put you in a position that feels good and sustainable and then from there you can move up or down into these kind of short periods of two months if you want to get a little leaner or build a little muscle but if you feel good at those calories you feel healthy you feel satisfied you're going to the gym you feel good like there's no reason to like fret over trying to push it in any direction that being said you also already said to me that you were felt the appetite increase that's your body telling you it wants more and it wants to build more so I say feed that yeah feed that trust the process you're going to be if you make good choices right so when you get those appetite crate and you don't go out and you go eat like an asshole make good choices keep that high protein diet I promise you those calories are going to get partitioned over the building muscle yeah the way you're training the way consistent you are like you're in a really good place if you're if your body's telling you to eat more eat more feed it more calories that's what I'd be telling you as your coach and I'm going to get you in the forum and then I want you when you have moments like this during this process to just message us tag us and then we'll keep you on this and I'd love to see where you're at okay well thank you so much like a little follow up question so I've been tracking now with this whole thing for a while and I kind of miss intuitive eating do you think it's possible to like do a reverse diet in like an intuitive eating framework or is that just a little too I do I do and you know what it looks like what I just said is if you're hungry if you're hungry make good food choices if you're hungry eat just make good choices that's it where people fuck up then they pile on the other stuff if you eat and whenever you get hungry you make a bout you make a high protein good choice of carbohydrate diet or meal I've never seen a client go wrong that way and if you're lifting and you're strength training and you listen to the body like that you will build muscle yep okay okay well thank you so much thank you for taking the time to answer my question it was so fun talking to you guys thanks Holly appreciate it bye bye bye how often we get our own head yeah I mean listen a 60 pound surplus you're not going to gain a pound of body fat in a week bro it's physiologically impossible no it would take almost six weeks yeah I was like trying to do the math yeah trying to figure out what it was and you know what 60 by the way for people listening do you know what a 60 with 60 calories it looks like yeah nothing what is that five almonds yeah it's like yeah you can be and you can be most people are off when they track their calories by at least that much even when they weigh yeah I mean yeah her body's like signaling her like let's feed the body yeah different conversation if she's not queuing me with that if she's like I'm weaker I don't feel strong in the gym I feel like I'm stuffing myself okay different conversation but if you're like telling me man I'm getting strong at them I feel good I'm hungry I'm hungry all the time I'm like yeah we're doing the right thing totally our next caller is Caleb from Utah hey Caleb what's happening hey how's it going guys good man how can I help you so I just want to say first off appreciate everything guys do I know you guys hear it all day every day but I listen to a handful of podcasts and this is like the only one I listen to religiously thank you I appreciate everything guys put out but yeah I mean I'll read it just pretty much straight off my email so a little bit of background so I've always been pretty lean never been able to put on a ton of muscle I've lifted weights fairly consistently since I was about 14 I'm 6'1 I'm about 5 about a year ago started trying to eat a little bit more didn't really track anything got a little bit stronger gained like 3 or 4 pounds the past so I guess at the time I wrote this the past 3 to 4 months I started tracking macros a little bit more mostly like protein and just calories Target is about 4,000 calories trying to eat between about like 225 to 250 grams of protein I was working out about 5 to 6 days a week doing a push pull lower body split first month of doing that so the first couple months I guess I gained about another 5 ish pounds my lifts went up fairly noticeably but then I kind of hit a plateau and I feel like I since then haven't really been able to burst through that plateau of like my newbie gained bulked I guess I don't know if that's a thing but so I guess questions I mean how do I adjust my workouts or diet burst through the plateau and how realistically is it to like somebody who's pretty genetically skinnier lean to see some pretty significant like growth and strength and I guess I'll throw in a couple things that's okay just like as an update so I think I wrote this the end of October so until about Christmas time I actually got up to about 191 had about 11% body fat which before I was sitting about like 7, 8% we just had a second kid about two months ago so that's kind of like thrown my schedule off quite a bit so most of January has been pretty inconsistent as far as eating and working out and since then I just have been in body this morning I'm actually down to 182 at the same 11% body fat which is kind of confusing I really had to like deal with losing weight but staying up in body fat so really just trying to figure out how to navigate going forward with my goals well going forward you lost a muscle but going forward yeah you'll gain some of that back real quickly because you had it in the first place who's also programming yeah and so I was going to ask you if you're eating 4,000 calories if that's where you were at I don't think it's a diet thing I think it's a workout thing for sure by the way how's your sleep right now with the second kid it's it's gotten a little bit better it's been super inconsistent we actually this past week switched from working out like five to six days a week to doing three days three maybe four just because my sleep has been awful and I'm just like exhausted all the time and so trying to make a little bit adjustments to get more sleep so right now I'm probably like I was probably between five and a half to six and a half now I'm pushing more like six and a half to seven okay on a nightly basis yeah I think I think the adjustment is the workout and I think you were working out too much before I mean do you write your own program or like how do you train where did that come from yeah I mean yeah I guess it's just small variations from what I grew up doing I guess I grew up just kind of working out with like football basketball teams working out with my dad we always just kind of did push pull lower split so I've tried to vary like rep ranges but other than that or like maybe a couple new workouts bro we're gonna we're gonna put you on maps on a ball you're gonna put you on maps on a ball and watch you're gonna follow the three day week version follow it exactly how it's laid out and to want to add or do other things follow the program to a T I guarantee that in three months time it'll blow your mind promise you sweet so like like a overarching goal I guess I love to hit like the thousand pound club with like my three main lifts just because I've never been like super strong and I feel like that's kind of a benchmark I'd love to hit I mean is that do you feel like that's realistic as far as where I'm at with maps and a ball all that stuff and then maybe move on to power lift or something like that so you get more specifically focused on those big lifts because yeah I mean you put that kind of attention in detail with your mechanics and the way that you know you can perfect that whole process like you're gonna see a lot of awesome gains yeah maps at a ball and then after that if your sleep continues to get a little better switch to maps power lift stay keep the cal keep the protein and take high body weights around 180 you said 181 or 182 I would hit yeah I would hit at least 180 grams of protein a day closer to 200 probably better keep that consistent you don't need necessarily track anything else just don't eat garbage you're gonna be totally free I think yeah you were working out too much and that was the plateau the plateau was you just too much volume feel like gotta recover yeah dude like three full body workouts a week program properly there's way more to it than just that but most people muscle and strength following something like that not a five or six a week routine you're gonna it's gonna change your life I promise you if you do that if you do what he said protein wise and eating correctly and you follow anabolic to a T I guarantee it's gonna blow your mind especially somebody who's been lifting pretty much on and off his whole life and has like kind of a routine that you do push pull split and then you go do what were the full body three days a week watch what it's gonna do you're a perfect older baby so two months so we got a two and a half year old and a two month old we're gotta you might not be I don't know man you might not be getting good sleep here for you know we thought we thought the baby was gonna be the tough one it turns out that was not the case and yeah it's been crazy but so it's been because there's a lot more of like helping out with kids it's not just super simple it's a lot harder to like meal prep and make sure like my diets are good for so I've been pretty consistent as far as hitting those protein marks but the calorie hasn't always been consistently no pushing 4,000 is that gonna hurt me if I have the occasional day where you know I'm maybe like 3,000 not quite hitting the 4,000 like it's a big mark no you're eating adequate calories really it was your programming I mean if your calories get down to like 2,000 1,500 you know consistent muscle and you're not gonna gain you know 15 pounds of muscle a month that doesn't work that way it's a slow process even when everything is done right you don't need that many calories to build a pound of muscle so if you gain 2 pounds of lean body mass a month consistently which is just kick ass that's like 20 pounds in a year that'd be like you're crushing you're flying that's not that many calories where people start to get you know then that makes a big difference 3,000 you know you're fine you're gonna be good bro just trust trust us trust the process and I promise we won't let you down I know with I've listened to some people who are on MAPS anabolic there's like some people do trigger sessions some people don't I don't really know what those are just like totally by listening so would you guys say do them include those 6 to 7 minutes 2 to 3 times a day on the days in between your workouts so literally while you're at home in the morning 7 minutes at lunch you know 7 minutes or before bed 7 minutes do not make the mistake that what people do is they over intensify it's not a workout it is not designed to be a workout you should not be sweating you just get a pump you should not be struggling it's literally like a little pump it's a little tiny pump couple times a day and just and there's inside the program there's a little print and everything so it it coaches you through everything on what to do so open up the program go through all of it watch the videos follow it to a T we won't let you down sweet yeah I think this will be pretty solid so I appreciate it guys you got it brother thanks for calling in man congratulations on the baby that's right yeah thanks hang in there hang in there yeah we'll send you that MAPS anabolic program I appreciate it guys you got it man alright bye later most young men especially, you take them from a five-day split to a three-day well-programmed full-body workout, that alone, no change in diet so long as it's adequate. Yeah, a lot of them are just shocking the difference. The first time I did it, the first time I had already been strength training for over a decade, the first time I did it, I gained seven pounds of lean body mass. Like it just, no change in anything, it was just the programming that made that big difference. It makes a huge difference too, if you're also coming from a place of potentially kind of overdoing it, right? So if he's overdoing the amount of volume and intensity in his training, he's also hurting a little bit on sleep. And then in addition to that, he has some days where he misses calories and the programming is pretty similar to what he's kind of been doing his whole life. You shake that up with a three-day week full-body routine. New stimulus, better recovery, yeah, better programming, boom. We did forget to tell him, I didn't ask him if he trains a failure. You gotta stop the sets about two or three reps before you fail. Don't go to failure, especially on a full-body type routine, that would just be too much. Great part is we have before pictures, right? He sent over a photo where he's at now. Watch after he's going through anabolic. Awesome. Look, if you like the show, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out all of our free fitness guides. We have fitness guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam.