 It is my absolute pleasure to be here with Deepa Paralad, author and design strategist as we talk about transformation. Deepa, as you know, Brightline is all about transformation and better enabling organizations to transform, recognizing the alarming, I'll say, stats around the ability to actually do that. And you've been around this space for quite a while. Help me understand what you see in terms of challenges to transformation. Well, I think there's some legitimate reasons it's become more difficult. It's not because of a lack of good intentions. I think that the set of issues that companies are asked to weigh in on are extremely complex. Things like sustainability and things like, you know, security don't have a finite set of things we can even test, right? Those are very open-ended questions. They're open to a lot of culture. Even debate about what the end looks like. So you kind of have no fixed set of approaches and no completely shared understanding of what, you know, a successful completion of that task looks like. So I think the complexity is part of it. But in that process, I think in order to come to terms with that uncertainty and still move forward, whatever transformation efforts you undertake really have to have, I would say, you know, more than specific end points, they need to have specific traits. And I think one of the key ones is about inclusion. You know, I think a lot of technology can assist us in some ways, but it's geared toward helping us find a match with people who have common interests that we do. But everything we know about innovation is some of the greatest discoveries come from far outside our field. And so we don't really have technology right now to help us find the mismatch. But I think leaders have to undertake that responsibility and always make sure they're being as inclusive as possible. And I think things like using some of these visual and design tools by definition make it more possible for a better set of people, wider set of people to give input. So inclusion is one. The second is we have to be really transparent about what the assumptions are. You know, there's no guaranteed success or failure in any innovation or any transformation effort. But at least if we're transparent about what our underlying assumptions are, people can comment on those. If there's a lot of, you know, lack of understanding around those, it's very hard for people to get behind. And the other thing is, like I said, a lot of things we're trying to do are pretty hard and you're never sure whether they'll truly be accepted. So I think we really have to focus on making the process a little bit more fun, a little bit more inspiring because that's the only way you can capture the energy of people around you. And you know, I think organizations can hopefully start to design these things so that it feels like a field trip, not like homework. Yes, yes. It's about, you know, as you say, the hearts and minds, right? You want to be able to engage the organization in that conversation to be able to truly see what are the kinds of things that make sense to be able to engage in and do as opposed to just assume to your point. And I think personal trust in relationships, a lot of these issues are beyond the walls of the organization. So whatever your leadership style and however effective it is inside the organization, it's not always sufficient to have an impact, especially now when CEOs and leaders are saying, do something beyond profit, have a social impact. That requires a much wider, you know, set of collaboration than we've ever really had to do before. So I think it's not only communicating your objectives, but really having people understand your intentions that is critical. And I think that takes a huge investment of time. It may be unfamiliar, uncomfortable. But when that happens, I think when we're talking about ecosystems, ecosystems can form very quickly around ideas that are powerful. And I mean, we have recent examples, you know, things like one laptop per child, whether or not the product was a huge unqualified success, I think now people have moved on, but it just made people all get in on this idea of inclusion. How do we deploy technology to help a much wider set of people? Right, that engages people, that really makes people rally around the cause. And while the initial aspect of what it is may not be the best thing, actually it's a start and then it can grow beyond that. And I think also trying to take abstract concepts, I think the design aspect is very critical because once you create something tangible, people are able to comment on it. So I mean, we're not going to solve the debate about vegetarian versus non-vegetarian by discussion. But maybe if I make a plant-based meat, you know, people can see room for improvement when they also have analysts saying maybe this is going to be this $100 billion business in 15 years. All kinds of players can experiment and make it better very rapidly. So I think getting to that point where there's something for people to react to keeps a sustained energy on the process. Because having it completely abstract and word-based is very, you know, after a while you just can't sustain people's energy. Yes, yeah, it's difficult to rally around something that is so ambiguous. But being able to create something that enables people to be able to comment and make it evolve, it's not about being able to define it definitively day one, it's about the evolution of it to what it needs to be. And that's where I think, like, good products are not perfect, but what they do is they form an emotional connection and they build community. So, I mean, innovation by definition, it can't be successful all the time. And I think that emotional connection sometimes is even more important, powerful when things fail. Because if people care enough to help you get in the ring for round two. So you'll see all the time when you look at a company like Apple, everyone tends to focus on the aesthetics of their design. But I think with things like 3D printing, over time, other people will be able to copy the aesthetics. But having that community of people who are eager to write a fix all the time because they're so engaged and they care about the company succeeding is really critical. And I think more companies are going to be able to do that. When you give people some choice about how they use it, when you respect their opinions, you know, I think your base can be much wider and that inclusion is going to become more important now for a couple of reasons. Is that the lifeline of CEOs is shortening their tenure on average and the life cycle of anything we create, however successful it is, is also shortening. So if we don't take into account a much wider group of people and consider their tastes and preferences early on, it's very hard to go back and backfill and say, let me now course correct and think about this. Because we know now that good ideas travel, right? There's a global payment infrastructure in place and you can actually have a much larger market than it was ever possible before. And everyone has the same information. So I think that, you know, for me, inclusion, I don't look at it as a philosophical point. I think it's really an insurance policy and it's probably the best business model of all time. Great. Well, thank you for your time and your insights. Thank you so much.