 All right, so let's begin To begin can you just please state your full name share grass home and president and CEO of the Mining Association of Canada and your age My age 51 you're actually you're you're one of the young ones So don't worry about it And where were you born born in Montreal? Yeah, and what did your parents do? Well my mom when I was growing up was at home With my brother and me and my dad worked for bel canada Okay, and what did you do as a child? What was your interest remain interest well, I wasn't very sporty though. I didn't ski and swim But I was What I do I like to travel still like to travel like biking I went on bike trips when I was a teenager I Always sort of been a reader Always a bit bookish good at school. What were your Best subjects in school or favorites on this my favorite subjects were always political science history economics those the social sciences Were always my strength, so I came to mining Not not not the normal through like geology or engineering No, that's right, so what was your what was going to be your idea going forward after high school? Did you know kind of what you wanted to do in life or? No, in fact Be honest my career has been It just kind of happened You know I I mean at one point I thought because of my interest in local science. I might go on and study law But then when the time came and I was in university and I finished my undergraduate I didn't really feel like going to law school, so I did a masters And in policy in policy as well. Yeah, my undergraduate was in political science and economics at McGill and then I went and did a masters as well and You know after I graduated I Put with my masters. I knew I had to get a job somewhere and figured Coming to Ottawa might be not a bad idea. It was actually in the middle of a Pretty significant recession in Canada And Montreal was especially hard hit double-digit unemployment youth and youth unemployment really high So I came to Ottawa thinking maybe I could get something and ended up starting my career working for a member of Parliament and then from there it just sort of you know one job led to another job which led to another and If you'd asked me when I Graduated if I thought I'd work in the mining industry. I'd have looked at you funny And I would never have predicted this career path for me but It happened and I loved it and I Certainly never regretted it. So how did you fall into them? I guess what was your first official job you consider to be in the mining sector? Well, how did you start that? Well, the closest I came Was working on Parliament Hill for the minister then minister of natural resources and McClellan McClellan under the government of Jean Cretien and and At the time I Like like a lot of things. I would had a colleague in her office Dan Piskowski and he was her director of Policy for mining and forestry He had the right background. He had a masters in mineral economics and after the 97 election he got a job with Mac and I stayed on with Anne McClellan after the 97 election when she became minister of justice But after about two years Dan Called me and said look there's a job here at Mac Vice president public affairs and communications. Why don't you apply? So I thought well Okay, why not? Didn't knew I didn't know much about mining but also knew they weren't looking For that expertise per se they were looking someone with more of a an understanding of how government works How to work with media and how to communicate and I had those skills so I applied and they hired me and Then I discovered an industry that I found absolutely Fascinating with great people in it really committed to what they do and a sector that With people who Are far from you know some of the stereotypes you might think of when you think of mine and I've Consequently, I'm you know, what is it now? 17 years later. I'm still here Yeah, still in the second. So you started Vice president Yeah, I was vice president public affairs of communications for Mac Started in 1999 worked till 2008 when I got a When I was hired to be the president and CEO of the mining Association British Columbia So my family and I moved out west to Vancouver Yeah, I had three wonderful years best place. I've lived. Oh, yeah, no offense to Montreal second best place more Ottawa third or the And yeah, I just had a wonderful time what I really liked about Working there especially was the industry was all around me on House Street and around so Yes, it was great to sort of be Next door to everybody and really felt your had your finger on the pulse of the sector but after three years my former boss at Mac retired and They came calling and said would you come back and I wasn't sure I wanted to I was enjoying Vancouver so much for those reasons I just gave you and but ultimately decided yeah, I suppose I I should and And came back to head up the National Association In 2011 and I've been here ever since now The president could you explain what basically what the role of Mac is the mining Association of Canada? So we're the national voice of the mining industry Canada's mining industry We represent companies That operate mines from coast to coast to coast wide range of commodities including everything from base and precious metals to uranium to oil and oil fans diamonds iron ore and And we're the the voice of the mining sector as opposed to the PDAC Which represents the exploration community? We really focus on mining And our primary role is to interface with the federal government on public policy so any Rules laws regulations policies that affect mining we would be the the advocate for Mining's perspective on those issues So that's our primary function. It's been what we've been doing since 1935 When we were first founded The role of federal government has expanded its role in mining has expanded considerably over the years Much more so today than when it was first Mac was first created So there's a lot more for us to do Our mandate has evolved in recent years to include Being the voice for Canadian mining abroad to a degree Ours is a very outward looking sector. It's probably the only Sector of the Canadian economy where you can say that we're a global leader not sort of a branch plant of some foreign multinational So Canadian mining is a known commodity in the rest of the world Second largest outward investor to the banks and Really a uniquely Canadian success story So we've become increasingly though the voice of that leadership Outside Canada Just in the last number of years And is because mining has become so global so international This is this M a suit is Mac see itself often Other governments or it's still strictly with the Canadian federal government. Yeah We'll only deal directly with the federal government per se, but other governments often come to us to learn about what it is that we do Particularly in our role around sustainable development and the work that we've done to develop towards sustainable mining That generates quite a bit of interest From other parts of the world, but we'll be involved as well in promoting Canada's trade ties with other countries particularly countries where there's a strong mining Interest parts lots of Latin America parts of Africa Southeast Asia We are strong supporters of free trade and also You know have a strong interest in in ensuring our investments are protected and safe So foreign investment protection agreements another instrument that the federal government negotiates with other countries are important to us So the investments because mines are Very capital-intensive. You're putting a lot of people's money At at risk and so you want to try to Minimize that risk if you can From you know on unfair government action is it does Mac have a Difficult position in the sense that it's often I feel like it's Running after the government to be heard or does the government really understand the role of Mac To get to I guess the the rest of the industry. Oh Yeah, no, I think we're definitely recognized as the national voice The government in many ways relies on us For our views on on issues and we'll come to us ways it it is in fact, you know, there's a couple of times We mean one of the sub sectors of mining that we don't represent and haven't ever represented is thermal coal So there's a coal association in Canada based in Calgary and so we we actually don't get involved in matters that affect thermal coal There's power generation or or other Types of issues that that just our interests don't have and our members don't have an interest in and so when those things come up I know that the government of Canada can find it quite challenging because They want to come to us and And we can't help them And so they've had to end the coal association itself is very small and Have doesn't really have the kind of public policy depth that that we bring to the table Okay Now since we've worked in this industry, have you any role or project that you've worked on that Believe was quite dysfunctional Didn't run the way it should have If there is one Yeah, you know I really think of I'd have to go way way back to when I first started at Mac We had well we still have well There was a program originally called keep mining in Canada then morphed into mining works for Canada and There are elements of that program still alive and well today We would organize we've been organizing a national at an annual lobby day called mining day on the hill every November and Representatives from our board of directors and and other company reps come to town and they meet with officials and politicians political staff Other stakeholders over the course of a day. They can have 60 70 meetings Speaking about issues that matter to the mining industry So we've been doing that. We were the first group actually in Ottawa to organize such an event now Everybody does them these annual lobby days as they're called But we were the first and It was a key part of the program called mining works for Canada and when I first joined the association What I found was that mining works was Very unfocused It was quite superficial. It was promoting Sort of mining at a very high level But without giving what government actually needs which is real information on the issues and our perspective on the issues And so we weren't really getting much traction with people It was we've been doing it for you know approaching 10 years and it had run out of value We felt to to arise that was certainly my assessment and It was starting to also do other in engage in other activities that were also in my assessment of limited value different types of Events in across the country, but that weren't really Targeted no sense of a targeted audience. They were just sort of feel good activities It cost a lot of money, but didn't actually do much and so Certainly for the first few years part of my Challenge was to turn that around and and focus it and reshape it and of course whenever you try to do something like that That's been around for a while There are people who are attached to that model And it can be a bit of a struggle but ultimately we did succeed and and I know I at the time the board itself wanted that change So they were looking to the association to turn it around and I think one of the reasons I was hired as they hope that I had those skills to do that So I knew I had the board support and my president support to do that But there were still people that you had to work with to convince them that was the way to go so I would say it was nearly days frustrating and dysfunctional because we were trying to obviously play a Accomplish a critical objective which was to Advance the interests of the mining industry in Canada with key decision makers and we weren't doing it very well and we need to improve how we did it and It was frustrating to see Where we were at, but then also very rewarding when we were able to turn it around And now is since becoming president and CEO of Mac Have there been any major projects or initiatives or changes that would be worth mentioning? Well One of my other major assignments when I first joined Mac was to develop what became towards sustainable mining or TSM Which is sort of another central sort of pillar now of What we do so when we You know we described earlier what's our function the voice of mining the interface with the federal government But there's another key aspect today which is to Actively work with our members to promote sustainability and mining And we've developed this program that is one of a kind There isn't another country in the world except now for Finland That has a program like this and I mentioned Finland because just last November the finish mining Association Decided to adopt Mac's towards sustainable mining initiative. And so now it's in place in a second country and That decision has also triggered the interest of a lot of other countries and we're now sort of getting deluged with requests from different chambers of minds and different governments around the world wanting to know what is it that we've designed and Implemented here and wondering what's involved in doing the same So that's been something that's Really exciting to watch to watch something that I was involved in very early on in setting up and then see it grow and actually then go global and Continue to sort of spread it's It's certainly a well-respected program and As I said it there isn't another There isn't anything quite like it anywhere else. It's got You know, there's public accountability for performance third-party assurance. We have a national advisory Panel of stakeholders that what it keeps our feet to the fire and challenges us Yeah, it's it's a it's a I think a pretty unique way of engaging with civil society that the mining industry and other countries haven't quite Done to the extent we have but something we're certainly proud of And is it like what are the outlines of the program? Is it things that you? You you kind of have to implement towards the the industry so these are so how it so how it works is every member of Mac every year at the mine site level Or at the level of or smelter or refinery because we also represent smelting and refining They will evaluate their performance against a suite of 23 indicators that cover issues like Greenhouse gas management and energy tailings management biodiversity conservation External engagements Aboriginal engagement those sorts of issues they'll measure themselves against criteria and Give themselves a rating every year that's publicly reported in every third year Those mine sites undergo an external evaluation of their performance and those results are published and then the national advisory panel every year will choose a couple of companies to come before them and and Present the results and have to speak to the result defend the results show how they plan to improve over time etc. So it's It's fully transparent. It's available in French English in Spanish. It comes with training for the program as a whole but also on some of the specific areas that have been developed it's a and What makes it unique is there there isn't another program out there that Is measuring performance at the site level? You'll have a lot of public reporting in our sector or in other sectors that are sort of company wide Sort of a corporate roll-up But as we know You know in all if you're being honest any mining company will tell you they have some mines that operate better than others And so you can hide Your overall perform You know your your weaker performance by and highlight your your stronger performers and this really this program essentially compels you to be totally honest and transparent about your strengths and weaknesses because you report on all your mines But then what that does too is in private provides a very strong incentive for the mines to improve their performance and we're able to show After over ten years of doing this Significant improvements and performance across all of the indicators our companies are much better today at what they do Then they were a decade ago and TSM is partly responsible for that and how Are there what are the examples you see? What companies were or we're not doing Well Well, one of the obvious one of the obvious areas is around community and Aboriginal engagement Today are in Canada our sector is seen as in the vanguard of Aboriginal inclusion Compared to other sectors it's not to say they're you know, if you don't at times have Difficult relationships sometimes with some Aboriginal communities or some companies But for the most part the industry is now regarded as a leader in this area and There's a lot of interest amongst Aboriginal groups in terms of getting involved in mining and they are getting increasingly involved in mining, but if I go back 10 15 years this was still pretty scary stuff for the sector Some were doing it But a lot we're not sure how I Remember developing TSM early on and There was a fair bit of pushback from some of the more Established mindsites, you know saying well It's easier to do this if you're developing a new project to engage with local communities But you know, we've been in Sudbury for 70 80 years or whatever it is or we've been in Timmins or we've been in Cam loops or wherever it may be You can't expect us to you know repair a relationship or start a relationship now But fast forward to today and they all have they now all have agreements with local first nations and The involvement of first nations in the mining industry in Sudbury is like it's never been before And the employment were the largest employer so things have really really turned around and I think it reflects well on the industry and Other countries around the world look at Canada and again CES leaders in this area So that's you know one obvious one Canada is also known for its leadership in tailings management We're also known We've also made a lot of progress in recent years around In terms of energy use and energy efficiency and the most Our Standards and our our set of indicators dealing with Energy are really equivalent to ISO 50,001. They're quite compatible and most of our members now essentially are achieving ISO 50,001 So it's it's it's pretty impressive what members have been able to do over the last decade Different question, but I guess the social aspect of things women How have how absent the present have women been Throughout your career and have you seen that change? So how? well here at Mac The It's always been close to 50 50% female From the very beginning and half of the vice presidents were and still are female So Half of this office is female for more Have to count now I think it's seven and five Female to to male So certainly in terms of what we do there's always been strong representation of women Since I became president we've had our first female chair of the association and Next year we'll have our second female chair. We're actually we actually have a good record of now alternating I don't know if we'll be able to continue doing that Our board has a lot more women on on it than it did when I first joined when I first joined I don't know if there were any and now there's quite a large number, but they still represent the minority And so there's still a ways to go. I've certainly seen A significant increase in the number of women I work with in this industry It I started to notice it more in Geology, but I'm seeing in sort of across the board now So it is a second we we have the data to show it. I mean it is It's still a long way from You know from a 50 50 split and You know some may question whether we'll we'll get there You know given the nature of the industry will it will it attract Enough women to get us to 50 50. I don't know The more You know the more and more technology is used probably the more and more likely that's going to be it's it's not As focused on you know heavy equipment and Though you know you'll often hear that Some of the best truck drivers in this industry are women because they take better They take better care of equipment than men do Drive more safely Yeah, so So there certainly there is a breaking down of stereotypes within the sector Occurring now how far it will go Remains to be seen, but I think there's certainly potential for it to go a lot further than it has I'm encouraged by the change that I'm seeing and that the data is showing But we still have a ways to go Compared to some of the other sectors in the natural resources area We're not doing so badly either Energy is better than we are but we're better than forestry better than fishing better than agriculture so or some types of agriculture So we're not bad But we've got a ways to go Interesting to see what do you think of the situation of the situation working I guess between government and Industry and the question is do you believe there's a disconnect between The industry the mining metal or the industry and the general public and I guess we could include maybe government in that. Yeah, I I think every sector of the Canadian economy probably thinks that to a degree Especially some of the more traditional sectors Whether it be not for resources or manufacturing They often feel that they don't they're not appreciated enough. They're not respected enough and I Take a somewhat different view. I think the reality today is our societies are now so sophisticated Information is so available that people attention span or anything is limited and It would We're kidding ourselves if we think that your average Torontonian is Going to think about mining much of their day Just like I don't think spend much much of my day thinking about the pharmaceutical sector or the telecommunications sector unless I'm Getting pissed off with my One of my devices is my cell phone Or if I'm you know having to get some prescription drug from the drug store I don't really think about other sectors the economy the way I think about mining because I work in the mining field But if you asked me generally what I think about the value of those different sectors my general view would be positive with some Reservations about certain things I may have read or heard and what we've found over the last five years of opinion polling which we've been doing Is from the public? Yeah from the general public Is that Canadians views of mining are kind of similar to what I've just described that actually a Large majority of Canadians are have a favorable impression of mining But I think the range We've asked you know the sort of the top line question is do you have a favorable or very favorable view of mining or Unfavorable or somewhat favorable and the favorable and very favorable is Has always been somewhere between as low as 73 percent or as high as 84 percent. Those are good numbers Our pollster Who's one of Canada's top? pollsters Bruce Anderson you may have seen him on When he used to be on the ad issue panel with Peter Manchbridge and he He would say for a natural resources sector. You're never going to get better than 85 percent because there's always going to be sort of 15 percent of of Society that Doesn't believe in natural resources would like to live in a world where we don't disturb the land where we Leave everything intact However realistic that may or unrealistic that may be so there's always going to be a cohort that sort of opposed you from a certain sort of More of the extreme of views and society So if 85 is sort of the top we can get and in one year we got 84 we're doing very well and What the results also show is is is they have Like I just said before about the other sectors they have they know that mining has its impacts you can't Build a mine without disturbing land Without potentially having an effect on water on wildlife. So there are environmental impacts It can be disruptive to a community if you're nearby but on balance The benefits far outweigh The costs in the vast majority of cases so their their views of mining are actually quite favorable Do they think about us regularly no are they likely to no But when asked they'll actually say yeah, it's an important sector and it's good that Canada Has a strong mining industry and they actually think governments should be doing more To support the mining sector than they currently are so it's not a bad place to be It was a surprise for our board and for our members To see these results when the first it is is yeah, because most people kind of assume and this is sort of another takeaway for us was You're inclined to follow the clippings and the media tend to cover controversies and so you think That what you're reading is representative of the broader public attitudes, but it's not Yeah, things that go well are not as sexy. No, that's right. That's right. Of course. Yeah Absolutely. Well, thank you The next question is more than mouthful. So And that's that's in your opinion. So in your opinion, are there any events? people inventions Disasters anything whatsoever You believe must be mentioned when discussing the history of the natural resources in Canada Well, no wrong answer. Yeah Well, I think in recent history and if you look at the work that we do Yeah, half Half dimension some of the tailings failures we've had the Mount Polly failure last year Some Marco in Brazil though, you know, not not Canadian And not Canadian companies was horrific horrible disaster But there were a number of sort of high-profile tailings failures in the 1990s by Canadian companies abroad oh my in Guyana Operated by Cambior Mark Hopper by Placer Dome two companies that no longer exist And one could say that the contributing factor was perhaps those feelings failures Tributing factor to the disappearance eventual disappearance Because those have such a devastating impact on a company's reputation and their bottom line But it's in response to those that we developed at Mac the what are now sort of international leading guidance on tailings management and Hot-wired that into our towards to double winding initiative So we've taken sort of the crisis of tailings failures and Turned it into a strength in terms of Canadian mining where we're now seen as leaders in this area so it's you know, it's I You know learned from Some of my mentors years ago never waste a crisis and I think the industry did not waste The crises of of seeing some of these major installations fail on them. They took them seriously they looked at what was wrong and They work really hard to try to make sure they don't happen again Thank you We'll just close with a few questions First thing what are you proudest of in your professional career? Probably the development towards stable mining That's been I Think people would expect me to say that I'm kind of identified with it It was what I I did when I first joined Mac and and now it's sort of a centerpiece of what we do and as I mentioned Now it's starting to go global so I've One of the again probably another one of the reasons why I'm still here Is because I've found in this sector a group of people really committed to doing the right thing and Wanting sometimes feeling that they're not Getting the respect they deserve for what they do. They're better than people may May think they are Which takes us back to I don't know if that's true or not, but there is that perception but certainly a group of people who Are committed to Improving the way the industry does those about its business and and towards sustainable mining stands out as a great example of that They didn't have to do this But they felt it was the right thing to do and did it in a way that made a lot of sense for business Last question and that's if you were to speak to someone much younger like a student for example What would be the most important life lesson or piece of advice who would give them looking forward not necessarily towards a natural resource industry But this was a perfect professional life Well, they should do what they're interested in Whatever that may be Life just sort of has a way of working out if you do what you like Study what you like be good at it learning how to write to me has always been It's always been one of my strengths professionally it's taken me where Where I've gone And I've always placed a high value on on that So I'd encourage people to read write learn and enjoy doing what they do and then the rest should work out Thank you. Do you have any other questions or comments? No, it's just it's odd now to be the one giving advice to people like what happened. I feel I'm getting old Well, thank you very much. Thanks. Appreciate it. Okay. Bye