 There's a hello. My name is Alex for the chair of the subcommittee of the land land use subcommittee of the conservation commission. We are starting our subcommittee meeting today. December 5th. And the time is 1206. On board we have myself. And Michelle lab and Bruce Steadman. Dave Zomac and Erin Jacques. So the agenda that we have today opens with a discussion of. The garden community. Community garden. Rules. And Bruce Steadman has a piece on agriculture. The agenda doesn't include a hearing from a shell. On the work that she was going to do. So I'd like to add that if she's ready. I can present some updates and comments. Yeah. Okay. And then the agenda includes. Next steps where we're going to work on and site meetings. So with any luck, we can get through it all. I can, I sent. A single file to Aaron of the garden. Community garden document. Thinking that. We've already been through it. And there are just a few comments to address. And when we get done with it, I'd like to move it on. So we have a discussion about where it goes from here. So if. If I could share my screen. She'd be able to. Yeah. I think I might have to go get that document again. I have it open. If that's helpful, I could share it, but. Let me know what you prefer. No, you can share it. Okay. I may have to go find it because when I shut off my computer. I probably lost all that and have to go get it. I lose your and I have something on my screen saying enable editing. Can anybody else see my screen with the document? Yes. Yeah, it looks good to me. So if you can make it slightly bigger. That would house. Thank you. Okay. So in this document. There is some blue text. Those are links. They're not new. And I put at the top for my own memory. Some, you know, when this was submitted on 913. And then it was last revised on 927. As a result of us going through it. And then I did some work on it last night. Mostly to clean up comments. So I'm going to. Alex, I really appreciate this header for, and you use the same one in mine. And I think it'll help us remember and keep track going ahead. So thank you. Yep. So what I'm going to do is quickly go down through this document. I really don't think that we need to discuss. The text. I think we've been through it. I don't know if I'm wrong, speak up. I'll remind people that nothing really changed. In the rules. That we initially had. It just got reorganized. As if a person in the community was coming. To the town website or this document, trying to figure out, how do I get a garden? Where do I apply? What are the rules? What are the rules? And what are the rules that we should be under? What are the rules that we should be under? So that kind of information is all grouped together. Before it was kind of stream of consciousness. So I'm with that. I'm going to work my. Way down through it. Aaron has control. So if you would just go down through the document. Until we get some comments, hold on. Hold on. We've got a couple of comments up here. We need to address. My comment is that for they, it says, see appendix. We don't have an appendix yet. And I just put a note in that we would need to include the form in the appendix. If that's the way we want to go or simply have people rely on the link. And I was thinking that we have a hardbound copy or we have a standalone document separate from the town website. So my thinking was well, stick the form in the agenda in the appendix. Any comments on that? Okay. Next one is has to do with pay the registration fee. Right now there is currently no mention of a fee or a donation on the town website. And in the past, there has been no fee. And a donation, I think of $10 was was requested or something small like that. In this document, we call for a $25 payment and I don't really know where that came from. So just to know that this document is different. From what's on the town website in that it requires a fee. Yes, I don't want to go into great detail, but through the years, there's been a lot of different approaches to the fee. I think, yeah, notwithstanding whatever's on the website, it is what it is. It's more looking, I'm always looking forward to where we're going from here. My only concern here is just, and maybe it's, it's dealt with later is, you know, do we have, do we have any recognition for those people who frankly $25 may be a barrier. And do we have any fee subsidy or fee waiver for those people who might qualify to, you know, so. Dave, the, my understanding and talking to Angela is that that's negotiable. And again, there was no fee required. It was a donation. And I'm sure it was a sliding scale. I didn't. Yeah, that's true. I'm just acknowledging that so I don't. Yeah, I would like to handle this as I think when we get done this, we're going to hand this off I hope to other town employees that deal with the garden and the rules and they'll look at this and comment on it and change it if they want. And yeah, I think I responded to your email saying, yeah, I'd like to at some point invite Stephanie Ciccarello and Angela into this conversation. But so let's let's keep pushing forward. That's fine. I think this is a good template. Yeah. Yeah, just so everybody else knows I wrote to Dave yesterday and just saying that we were going to deal with this document. I can get through it pretty quickly. But I told them that there's been no coordination with Stephanie or anybody outside the conservation commission and that's time. It's time to do that. Once we're happy with it, prior to sending it to the broader, the whole commission for approval. So that's, we're going to spend some time when we get done to the bottom, talking about where this goes next. I would just say that we can move on. Can we move down, Aaron? I'm going to try and move quick. Can I just say something about that real quick before I move on. Yeah, sorry. I may just add, there is a sliding scale registration fee and kind of maybe even take out the money or put the range in or something like that. In one part, just to make sure that people see that it's a sliding scale and this doesn't deter them off the bat. And second, that that $25 might change in the next five years. And then this, you know, the number it would be obsolete in the document. There's lots of chances to come back to it. Just, it does seem like a lot to me because you have to pay for like us the dirt and stuff is there the plants cost money so maybe just making it clear off the bat that it's a sliding scale. Yeah, my response. I don't have a stake in this except that when we got this document, the $25 was in it and it spent a year going through the entire commission as each individual reviewed it. And the $25 payment remained. It didn't appear or become new in the subcommittee. I don't know where it came from. And so somebody thought it needed to be in there and I'm going to party to that. I think somebody from the commission thought it should be in there. I don't know the history Dave. No, it's just a carry forward. Alex, it's just. Yeah, there's no. There's no, yeah. Yeah, I would say intent. There's no, there's no strong intent or, or I've not heard anyone through the years ever lock in on that. But I'm happy to make an edit. But I'm also happy to let Stephanie deal with it. I think it would be good to get it in there because I think there will be some, I don't want to say hot button issues from Stephanie or Angela but that will be one of them that we are thinking about those people in our community, many of whom are now gardening for instance at Fort River farm who, who really, you know, a $25 fee is, could be a barrier. And, you know, we've, we've offered that sliding scale so I think it's good to just offer this sliding scale. Okay. It has been a donation so we're just overdoing is changing the word donation to sliding scale. And I'm happy to go back to donation. There was no donation written up. It was whatever people wanted to pay. Hey, great. Let's move on. Number seven. Yeah, seven. Yeah. Never mind. I got, I read it again and I got it. The next one though is right below us should be bolded. And then my question was, if these are a set of rules and we should go to seven that goes back to one. Maybe it should just go on to eight. Yeah. Yeah. Minor question for the editor editing process later. Okay. Aaron, can you bold that? I can't do it print parenthetical stuff may not be bolded. That'll make it all on one line. And, and I appreciate the numbering issue. Not quite sure where that pops up. So, moving down. Can we just leave that to be corrected later. Now we were almost at the bottom. And we have Cameron's question here. This has to do with storage. And I'll just go to my comment on the bottom that permanent structures are not allowed on conservation land. That's stated in the agricultural policy. It's not stated in the garden. Community garden policy. But permanent structure is not allowed. And the town has not provided any storage. The only semblance of storage is on. One of the community gardens where there is a kiosk, a very small kiosk. And people lean their tools up against it. So this. In my mind, this item is contrary because we're asking them to provide storage. And yet, permanent structures aren't allowed. So I think either the town needs to go in and provide storage building. Or, or soften its. Consideration of permanent buildings. And I, I didn't know what to do here. Yeah, I could speak to that quickly. So I think it's a good point, Alex. I would, I would suggest that a. A small storage shed with no electricity, no running water, no utilities. Could be considered not a permanent structure. And that I do think I think it's in our best interest as a commission and as a department to provide. Some sort of storage for tools at the community gardens. In fact, Stephanie. I believe there is something already in the works for Fort River farm through some funding that we, we got. I think the agricultural policy should dovetail with the garden policy. However, I do know when we were developing the agricultural policy. We were not thinking really specifically about community gardens. We were thinking about farmers coming on to, you know, coming, being invited through an RFP process to farm, you know, two acres or five acres or 10 acres of conservation land. Like, like I think we're going to talk about maybe later today or in our next meeting. But I think a movable temporary, you know, 10 by 10 storage shed for tools and equipment to secure them. But also to organize them so the community gardens don't become a mess. I think is the goal here. Okay, so we could leave. We could leave this as it is and disregard the comments. I think so. Is it would it be fair to say that all the things that are listed there as examples need to be taken away at the end of the gardening season. I'm leaving them over the winter. And what I do know is happening at Fort River Farm because it's such a collaborative community garden. The town and Healthy Hampshire have purchased some shared tools so I don't think any individual would want to take them home. So we're actually storing them in some of our conservation buildings for the winter. I would prefer not to do that. I'd prefer to just have a small shed and put them in the shed and lock it. And then in the spring, they're ready to go with a wheelbarrow and their rake and hose and whatever else, you know, so. But would the town provide that shed? Yes, I think we would provide that shed or, you know, we'd work with some grant funding. So if that's, if that's the plan in your vision. Stephanie works for you. I'm sure you'll have conversations about it. And we could leave this the way it is. Yeah, I think it works and we can adjust it in the broader agricultural policy. Yeah. So is Michelle, Michelle has her hand up. What, what is she going to. Yeah, I was going to say something else. Just wait till. So when we, before we leave this. Bruce made a comment about removing things for the winter. Do we need to say that we can add a sentence right now. But Dave, Dave just talked about locking it for the winter. So it would stay. I guess, I guess my image is. If one each plot holder had one of those things, it will never fit in this little shed that you're talking about. Providing. And so. Oh, I think they take their individual if they own rakes or hose or whatever. Yeah, these are, these are the shared items. Like, you know, if there are two wheelbarrows for the whole garden, everybody doesn't have a wheelbarrow, those kinds of things. Why don't we leave this, the people who are going to design the shed and leave. I think that's perfect items not owned by the town shall be removed at the end of the gardening season. Okay. Do you want those comments removed? Yeah, we can delete that, that whole comment now. Okay. So now we're down to a couple of word changes based on Michelle's comments from quite a long time ago. And I just got to ask her, oh, I'm sorry, Michelle, you had your hand up. Go ahead. Well, yeah. So this is actually maybe a comment on a, maybe an additional rule and it's just sort of a cautionary tale observed from community gardens elsewhere, which didn't really have the oversight of the, like the four over community garden has sort of a crew of people looking out for it. But I did visit a community garden in Vermont, which is beautiful and well maintained and cared for. And the people using it were really, really taking sort of ownership of it. And they started sort of decorating with signs, like sort of personal, like bringing in kind of weird stuff. And to some extent it can be nice. Like people's corn stalks decorating the entrance sign, but then they like plastic signs were coming in and it kind of started to proliferate where people are being more, like personalizing their area. So I don't know if we have anything in to cover that. And I'm not sure what even the wording would be, but I'm just sort of relaying that as something that happened when people are doing a great job of the garden, but they're like taking it a little too. I don't know, not, not leaving it in its natural state, I guess. I, in my visits to the gardens, I haven't seen any sign of that in the Fort River garden. At the kiosk, there is a, a plan view of the garden. With the name of somebody for each plot. So yeah, I'm not talking about like the town signs. This is like big, like, I don't know. I haven't, I haven't seen any sign of that. Yeah, well, not yet, but I'm just saying it can happen when people get really attached to their gardens and they're been there a long time, it can start feeling sort of like ownership. Anyway, I'm just bringing this up that I've seen it. So some, I don't know what to say about it, but it might just be like no personal items should be left in the garden or something. Bruce, I see your response. I think if they take them away at the end of the year, if they take them away every year, that might alleviate, and then they'd have to constantly do it again. And so I'd say just let it go and tell it, if it looks like it's starting to be a thing, then pick it up again, but I. Right. Yeah, I would agree with that. They have to clean out everything by this time of year. They've straightened everything up. And most everything and put it to bed. So they're supposed to be nothing there because they have to reapply for the plot. So there's a chance that they're not coming back. I'm with Bruce. Okay, I'm fine with that. So in this case, it was like a six foot plastic like banner on the external fence. It wasn't just in their plot, but it. I think in that case, Michelle, you know, that's going to be something that staff is going to notice. And we're going to either go to the coordinating group, or we're going to go to the individual far Gardner and say, you know what? You know, you just can't have that thing up there. Okay, sounds good. Problem. So moving down to Michelle's comments. We're looking at number eight first. This has to do with. Herbicides and pesticides and stuff. And I didn't quite know how to resolve for. That comment. And so last night I added some language. And I just said not permitted for organic production. And I'm going to ask Michelle if that works. I mean, yeah, I think that works for me. Is there already something that says that the gardens are organic? I mean, I don't think they are, right? They are, they are supposed to be organic. And when you talk to the people who run. The community garden. That's the way they do it. Okay. That works. So number nine is kind of the same thing. I took your words. And tried to make it work. Just saying. Cause you had. Said. Maybe we could be a little planer and tell them what can be used. So I took your words and said, oh, manual techniques, plastic mulch, et cetera, permitted. Does that work? Yeah. That's good. I. When I read it, I thought, well, wait a minute. A carpet. Remnant is a mechanical manual technique. I've done it myself. It's not intrinsically any different than putting down black plastic. Well, I was, I was going to comment on that. But I will say that. With a smile on my face. Many carpets have PFAS in them. So. No, I'm talking about the word manual. Yeah. That was my, I agree with that part. Don't use camera. Did you mean like hoeing or something? Maybe if we just remove manual and talk about materials only, then it is more clear. You wrote that. I didn't write. Did I write manual techniques? I'm sorry. I was going to say, I'm plastic. I do not favor the kind of plastic, you know, plastic mulch. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I'm not going to say I'm plastic. I do not favor the kind of plastic, you know, like many farmers use plastic. To do tomatoes, for instance. And then they actually. Often hero in that plastic. I would, I would say. Only manual techniques, removable plastic mulch, something like that. I go with that. I don't know what plastic works, but they. At the Fort River farm, they're using big sheets of. Black plastic. Over the growing season. Kill weeds. Yeah, I mean, that's like a standard organic practice, which is weird. And then in the area that they're. Got the plastic they want to put. Sweet potatoes in next year. So they're preparing for that. Yeah. So we're there as the plastic is being removed. Whereas, you know, there are many. So let's add the word removable before plastic. Yeah. At least we'll know what that means. But. Okay. So we can get rid of this series of comments. We're done with them. And it's got our hand up. I was just going to ask, could we just put a period here and say, like these. Um, items are not permitted for, or something, because it just reads weird. Um, don't use chemical herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, redenticides not permitted for organic production. Like these other, I think that was there because there are organic herbicides and pesticides. And is, is that the intent of the addition? Well, no, I'm just trying to, the wording of it is weird. So I'm, I'm, I'm encouraging us to wait until we have the, the fine grained editing to deal with these kinds of. Okay. Okay. But that is a content question because so I think my question was it, it said no chemical herbicides. Or pesticides, but I mean, like soap is a chemical and soap is an organic, um, treatment for pests. So it just, it's, it didn't read right to me when it just said, no chemical pesticides because chemicals can be organic too. So in terms of organic farming. Michelle, when, when I was looking through the agricultural thing, there's the organic law is, is cited. And I actually went on the web to try and find the information that was being talked about in the agricultural policy. Um, would the word synthetic work better than chemical synthetic? I don't know enough about it to say, but. I mean, just that you can use like, you know, copper as an organic treatment, right? So. Yeah. So you could reduce, you could get rid of the word chemical. I just say, don't use our resides. Yeah. I would be happy with that permitted for organic production. I think chemicals sometimes use to say, like, uh, what, like synthetic or, um, noxious or toxic or something, but I think that's fine. Now let's just remove it. That seems easy. So we're removing chemical. Yeah. And there's a double negative here. So I just, that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Great. So we're done with the tax. You can get rid of the comments. And if you'll send it back to me, Aaron, I'll take care of the format issue. And get it ready for next step, which, um, I don't know what to do with these two comments, leave it in for whoever looks at it next. Or, um. We haven't really resolved it. Okay. I'll just do save and send it back to you. Okay. So I, now I want to switch the topic to. Um, the fact that there are others in town of Amherst that deal with community gardens. And I think they were the original drafters of these rules. I think what happened was that this committee, long before I was on, not this committee, but the conservation commission before I joined it. Uh, when they were putting together the original package, the policy package, they grabbed the rules off the website and stuck them in the document. So a lot of that, probably Stephanie had a lot to do with originally. And, um, I think that's where it came from. So she hasn't seen this document. I don't think she for a long time even knew we were added in our broad policy document. The policy document does say that the conservation commission. Decides what's happens on all conservation land. And there is no provision. For islands where that does not apply. So the community garden topic. Is a topic. The way things are set up for the conservation commission at some level. Certainly not on a day to day working level. But now is the time to send something back to. To Stephanie and. Angela, I don't quite know those duties. And I feel awkward in calling her up and saying, here's this document. She'll say, who are you? And why. No, no, no, she knows we're working on this both, both Angela and Stephanie know we're working on this. And there's no problem at all. So why don't we. Alex, if you want to. Make any formatting changes. And send it my way. I will, I would suggest that I would like to sit down with Aaron. Angela and Stephanie and go through this. And then invite. One or both of them to a future meeting of this group. I'd like to kind of. Get some initial feedback from them and then. Identify some, if there are any sticky issues or areas, fine and dandy. We'll bring them to a future meeting of this group and they can bring their. You know, their roles. Just so you know. Angela has stepped in, in, in recent years to help with registration. With kind of coordinating the registration and the organization of both garden spaces. More so. More so at. Amethyst Brooke. And then Stephanie through her sustainability. Work. Has really helped me to. Create the Fort River farm. Gardens on a space that was farmed previously by a local farmer named Bob Saul. And we purchased that property with the intent of having much of the land to use for agriculture. So Stephanie's been there since we, since we purchased the land. And she's been working with healthy Hampshire. And that is now, you know, I don't know how many gardeners are there. There must be, I don't know, 40, 35 to 40 roughly. And very, very successful and, and, you know, vibrant. So, so yeah, if that's okay with the group, I'd be happy to sit down with them and, and we can try to get that done before the holidays and have a good conversation. And then we'll bring, bring those any new comments or new questions or edits to this group. You know, after the first of the year or something. Yeah, that would be great, David. I would be much more comfortable with you. Sort of taking it in one hand and giving it off on the other. Sure. No problem. Yeah. We all, we all work together every day and Stephanie, you know, sustainability is currently under the conservation umbrella, although it's a standalone function here. It's under the conservation umbrella and Aaron and Stephanie and Angela and I work very closely together. Yeah. So I think, I think we like each other too. So it's, it's kind of a good thing. We're all friends. So I, I think this ultimately our first charge was to go through this document and deal with issues and put something together that goes back to the commission as a whole. For its review and approval. And we've yet to figure out. Do we wait till the whole thing's done? Do we do that? And we've yet to figure out, do we wait till the whole thing's done? Do we do it in pieces? And we don't need to talk about that now. But the thing that's motivating me with this garden community is they have taken the rules down on the town website. And they need to get them back up before registration starts, which I think is going to be in the first part of February. And so there's some need for us to move along and make sure that we're timely in passing this on to them for their review. So great. We've resolved that. And I think we're done with item one on the agenda. And we are unfortunately have spent 40 minutes on that. So I'll ask the group number two agenda item was Bruce with agriculture, but Michelle. Was volunteered to do some work on. How much habitat there is out there and come up with a scheme for dealing with that. And I don't want to ignore the fact that she came to this meeting prepared to talk about it. I'm not as prepared as I would have liked to be, but I do have like a couple of quick questions or maybe they're quick. But I think. I could probably just ask Dave and Aaron that offline. And we can put my. Excuse me work to the next meeting that Bruce is ready and wants to go. Mine is very, I agreed with Alex's. Final edits and I'm happy for it to move on. Okay. I did make a bunch of comments in there. If you want to address them and come back with that. Sorry, I don't, I only see one comment, which is the to be determined on the very end. The rest looked like edits to me. So. I didn't see any actual comments. Maybe I missed. Maybe the document I got didn't include this. I don't know. Are we talking about the broader agricultural policy? Yes. Agricultural use policy. And what I see is. Well, there, now that I see now what you mean, there's a couple of edits for some reason. The version I printed out didn't include them. But. Yeah. And Erin can go in and get rid of the format changes. They're just. Yeah. I don't, I don't make format changes, but they, some changes get recorded that way. I mean, I saw several comments of Bruce's that. I think more in some. Okay. I'm sorry. I miss. Again, I didn't print out properly for me. So go to the one that she's got up on the screen. Yeah. So Aaron, can you get rid of the format stuff that's, that's in the track changes commands. I agree with Michelle right out of the bat, Bruce, you were asking about why, why licenses are so short. Things like that. Right. Yeah. Right. Go into a show markup. There you go. You want me to just accept all the changes or. No, I want you to eliminate format. Yes. If you accept all the changes, it'll keep the comments in. I'm always at the end. You want me to say, except all changes. Yes. And then it'll keep the comments in and just, yeah. Okay. That's fine. One, one iterative. Bigger. I still can't read it. There. Thank you. Under accept, just accept all comments. Well, I don't know if that's going to do anything. Yeah. We just. So at this point, given that there are discussions about some of these points, do we want to take Michelle and say this for the next one, or take this one first and go to Michelle next time? Michelle just said she was going to talk to Dave and Aaron. All right. Did I get that right, Michelle? Yeah. I mean, so how much time do we have left because this is going to take. I don't know if we can do this in 15 minutes, but we can address some of the items. I think let's just go with this since it's in front of us and. Okay. So we have two other items, which is what are we going to work on next. Okay. So we're going to go to the next item. We're going to talk about field trips. And scheduling. Field visits and it's getting late in the calendar. If people want to be out in temperatures that are above freezing. And that's been on the agenda for a couple of weeks now. We haven't touched on it. Do we want to talk about field trips now? Do we? I don't know what would the group like to do. So we can do it all at once to the next time. Take up the two other points that you made. And if there's time, talk about the, the longer question of the overall editing. That's good. So Alex, when you, when you put in site visits, where did you have in mind? That was Dave's idea. Dave, where did you want us to go? Everywhere. No, I just thought. There were many places we could visit. You know, in particular, as we're talking about overall management, you know, for instance, you know, early successional management and some of the issues that Michelle is researching makes a lot of sense for us to look at places like Atkins flats and, and, uh, Mount Pollux and some of the smaller areas that might be, you know, might be isolated or maybe we just do it. So, um, Frankly, just based on, you know, on the science of it, how big is the field? Is it surrounded by, you know, what is there? Is it estimated or priority habitat? Um, so there's, it just, I would love to get out and talk through some of these things because we may, we may say one thing, we may look at the GIS and say, ah, this should happen there. But there is a context to everything we're going to do. Sometimes feel like I want to download some of the experiences I've had say with the butters. Well, did you know that the butters consider this the greatest trail since, you know, since whatever, um, since the chocolate chip cookie was invented, you know, whatever. So just, just, so, um, so that's, that's all. I, I realistically, I mean, I know what is on Aaron's workload and mine between now and the end of the calendar year, the holidays coming up, the weather. I don't see, I don't see having time. I don't think I have time to get out in December. We'll see how the weather looks in January. You know, we're all pretty hearty people, I imagine. So if there's some mild weather in January, that'd be great, but I don't see getting out before the end of December myself. Michelle. Um, just quickly, I'm fine with going out in the winter. Um, just, we could dress formally and we'll be walking around to, I think it would be great to sort of try and dovetail Dave's priority sites visits with how I'm prioritizing the site. So, um, just to, you know, give me like bits to bite off and then have something ready for a site visit, I think would be a good way to organize it. So Dave, if there's like a short list of places that you know, you'd want to go first and you could let me know it, then I can, um, start working on what I was doing and like have something to give everybody. So we go out there and we have a notes column or something like that. Um, to me that that would be a good way to strategize it because there are so many properties. Um, Why don't Aaron and I do that? That's something we could do together. Clearly. Places like Puffer's pond. Um, Mount Pollux. Atkins flats. Amethyst Brook. Um, Even Fort River farm talking about the rest of the property would be high priority, you know, and Aaron, why don't you and I, if you could just make a note to, uh, you know, nail me down one of these days for 15 minutes and you and I could come up with that list, but that's, you know, clearly looking at, you know, because we're, we're, Aaron and I have been working on Puffer's pond. For instance, some ideas for the future of Puffer's pond and we've got quite a bit of work done on Puffer's pond. So that one could be really exciting and. And interesting to do. So. We're working. Let's see, Bruce, you had your hand up. I withdraw. Dave, we're working on agriculture. And, uh, would it, would it make sense while we're working on the agricultural policy to visit a variety of agricultural endeavors? Yes. That's what I was going to suggest. Oh, you mean in other communities or, or. What do you mean? On Amherst land. Oh, you mean potential sites for additional agriculture. Wentworth farm. Yeah. Uh, Podic Catherine Cole. Yes, it would, it would. For existing agriculture that's going well or maybe not going well. Station road, you know, the least farm on station road, those kinds of things. Yep. Now I do have one now. So my image is I'm sitting, I'm standing out there with all of you. And I have this agricultural use policy in my hand. So you're like, I'm not going to buy it to the thing we're standing and looking at strikes me as one part of these visits. Yeah. I'd really also like to hear any feedback that you've gotten from past Lisees and, you know, just Dave, your experience in administering the leases and how it went with it, Irrigation and cleanups and all the things like that. We have two layers of work. One is to go through the document, so we can go back to the commission at large. The other is to deal with the big policy issues that Dave has laid on us, and try and get them done together. So we'll get Michelle a list. We're going to front load agricultural sites, opportunities, whatever. We'll front load those, and I think talking through those would be good. So we'll front load those, and then we'll go into the Puffer Spawn in the Mount Pollux and Atkins Flats and things like that. So I know you said you didn't have time in December, and I know you put in a lot of hours beyond the call of duty, but I'm flexible and can fit most any schedule if we could do something before Christmas that would be great. Yeah. We can talk again with Erin and myself, but December is going quickly. Yeah. I mean, to be completely honest, we have 10 open hearings with the CONCOM right now, and I've got four or five NOIs to draft before the next meeting. It's just been such a difficult month with lots of filings and also complex filings that if I'm ever going to keep my head above water and steer us into January, it's going to be really tough for December. I tried. Okay. Okay. And the other item is, what are we going to work on next? So we have Bruce, could you reiterate what you see happening with the agricultural policy so that it's clear? Well, based on what we saw on the screen, there's a number of comments. So I think the thing to do is for each of us to look at them again before the next meeting. In our own minds, be ready to have an idea of what to do about those comments and work through them as quickly as possible at the next meeting. Why don't we put that at the top of the agenda? Right. The editing things you did seem all fine to me, but I just missed that there were the comment parts. So let's do those and try to, I don't know who this goes to next. There is an agricultural committee, but I don't know how active it is, Dave. The ag commission is pretty much defunct. It hasn't met in probably a year and a half plus. So once we get to the end, then this is part of our proposal to the full commission. Is that what you're saying? Okay. So I'd say let's get this subsection is wrapped up as we can. And then after that, there's other steps, but the other subsections can come as quickly as we can do them. So the other part of the discussion, I'd like to get clear before we get into it is how to deal with the two things we've been charged with. One is just preparing the document in its final form to go back to the larger commission. The other is how to address Dave's policy issues. Do we want more agriculture? Do we want more food production? And do those recommendations go into this document or are they separate? And I don't want, we don't need this result that now, but it would be nice to know how we're going to handle Dave's larger policy issues. Do we write them down and needs? So I'd like to put on the agenda for the next meeting that we address that and maybe as part of the agricultural discussion. Go ahead, Bruce. I think it'd be helpful if Dave's questions, his priority notions were a little subpart of each of the agenda, just to keep us remembering what they are. Let's put them at the bottom and maybe some of them will sort of come up in the context of these other things. But that way we're always, in the same way you've got that header on the subparts, this will remind us, oh, Dave's really concerned about X and Y and Z and there they are, we see them written down. Okay. So it's 1254. We were going to end sharply at one o'clock and we've got six minutes. And there's a hand up. Yeah. I was just wondering if December 19th is still working for everyone for the next meeting? It is for me. Yes. Okay. Michelle. I just have a comment not reasonably anticipated before the meeting. If it's a total off subject that we've already talked about before about carbon sequestration, but if Bruce has something relevant, I'll let him go. It's only that we should at some point, I'd like to talk about what is the process for getting this edited in such a way that it speaks with a single voice. Because inevitably there's like five voices talking in the different subsections. I have a suggestion of how to do it. It would cost some money, but I think we should consider doing it, which is to hire a serious editor to take it who's completely separate from all this and who can only work on it as a copy editor. Okay. Let's put that on the list of things to talk about. Yeah. I have one issue I need to put on the table and that is I'm not always confident that I'm dealing with the most current document. And I would like to at some point talk about how to modify the file name so that I know that I've got the most current. And one suggestion is to put the date as the first item of the file name instead of the same four letters all the time. So it sorts well where it's filed. And there might be, and I know the document, there is a document that got lost that I worked on that had comments in it and got lost during the summer. And I haven't taken the time to put it back in. So I'm concerned about file management and naming conventions. So I propose we enable the chair and the staff member to work it out and do whatever you think is appropriate. Yeah, I'm equally concerned about it because I know there's various drafts kicking around. And when people edit, I don't know that the edits come back to me. So I try to, like I have a folder set up every time I get drafts sent to me after a given meeting, I put them in this folder structure that has the various drafts from each of the meetings. But if there are versions people were working on that didn't get sent back to me or whatever the case that they didn't, and I didn't get them following a given meeting, they might not be in those folders. You know, that's kind of why I started putting that line in the header. And that was mostly for me. Yeah. And that garden community thing, you know, that was submitted December 13th and we worked on another 29th and then blah, blah, blah. You know, the agricultural document Roost did all the work on October two and now it's December five. So just want to be careful that we keep that everything, nothing gets lost. Well, I will endeavor to use whatever format you give us. Okay. Anything else for the good of the order? It's 1258, but we're going to meet on the 19th. It's like we're starting to get some momentum here. I'm happy about that. Good. And thanks again, Dave, for getting back to me on my email last night. Where you went home and helping us coordinate with other folks that work for the town. So it goes smoothly. Sure. I agree. I agree. And I agree with Bruce where it feels like we're getting some momentum. A little head of steam here and we'll keep pushing forward. And we'll get our boots ready for some winter site visits. And that'll be fine. We can still see a lot with four to six feet of snow that we're going to get this winter. And now it's the quadruple W. Welcome to the warmer, wetter winter. On that high note, thank you, everyone. Nice to take some good places. All right. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye, everyone.