 When I first went to cook them, and this is important to mention this, is there was a life as evening going on and Myra had a baby in her arms. A young baby, which I thought initially was a bit odd, but it didn't strike me as odd the fact that she was old in the baby, so much as the fact that the baby was there. Because the prison rules were, no kids under the age of 18. Having said all of that, with me, I had been given permission all the way through my career to bring my kids into prison at various ages. So I was in this bit of like, well she's having a photo taken as well, that's a bit risky really. Nothing happened to that photo by the way, apparently it didn't develop. And I believe it because it's never materialised. Why is that allowed though, from the biggest child killers in UK? Why is child allowed in? Well there shouldn't have been, basically, but there were. And the point where it went wrong for me as well, was that my, this is going back to Grendan again, I know we're on the Myra thing, but it's sort of interlinked, is that Grendan traditionally right from the start in the 60s through to, well even now they have socials, but Grendan used to have wing socials and they used to have charity concerts at Christmas, where staff and their children could come to the charity cow concerts, they could come watch the pantomimes. And staff and their children, which included my children, could come to the Christmas parties, which I ran for, oh I think I ran eight years Christmas parties at Grendan. So for me, children coming into a prison to be with amongst child sex offenders and killers and stuff like that has been something that was always second nature. And to you it's sounding like Jesus Christ, that's right, that's like giving a killer a gun or a rapist, putting them in a fucking, I don't feel like it was. I tell you what was, I'm now able to say, was that I don't think the process I followed through that period was any different to anybody else's, but I think because of what happened with me and my daughter, they were right to stop it. Not because my daughter was at any risk, but because that loophole, that little bit of what was happening natural for prisons had to stop. So in a way, did I ever feel I'd done wrong by my kids and by my daughter? Now it's as no, Sophie was here now, she would say the same. That's not the point. People from outside didn't like what had happened, people from outside didn't understand it. My daughter was eight when she was taken into Cocomwood because she wanted to know where dad was working on a Sunday. And I said to the governor, you've got this life as day happening, are children allowed in? And she said, well, yeah, I suppose so, but a lot of the staff are not bringing their kids, they're bringing, they used to bring their dogs and horses and stuff in. And I said, can Sophie pop down and join in with what's going on? Yeah, she said, of course you can. So that wasn't a problem. So Sophie travelled with me on her own to Cocom and she went into the lifer unit that's down there. And she was taken under a wing by the women in the lifer unit, all of whom I knew, I'd known them all for nearly a year. And she enjoyed cooking, she went to the, she went to the hairdressing salon first and just had her nails done and what have you. And then they took her and she did a bit of cooking, she went and helped out in visits serving. But in the afternoon, she came up into the admin block where, because I've been to see Myra and Chris said, Myra's got this cardboard globe that she wants to make with Sophie. I said, OK, they can sit and make it while we have a chat. I said, yeah, of course you can. So she sat with my daughter in the governor's office, the side deputy governor's office making this cardboard globe. And then there was a knock on the door and I think it was a principal officer or somebody there said Myra's off on her way out and she's wondering if Sophie can go down to the gym. She's going down to use the gym, the trampoline. And that will have a look through around the grounds on the way through. In actual fact, Myra wasn't going with the principal officer, she was going with Nina Wilde who was her, I didn't know that at that time. But who later became her lover. Right. So Nina, who was a criminology student working in Cookham who had keys, went with Myra and my daughter to play on the trampoline, to go walks in the grounds, to look in the pond at the frogs and tadpoles and then came back up. Right. Because you've walked with a stove, people looking at it say they were going, fuck me, man. What's happening?