 You're listening to the dial-in with Farm Cup Coffee and your hosts Emerson Harrow and Brian Bars. Today's guest is nicely able co-founder of Minottis in Venice, California. It's rare for a coffee shop to have a dedicated greeter at the front. Someone consistent, steady. Someone that welcomes every customer with the same cool demeanor indiscriminate of demographic. And yet here at Minottis in Culver City, such a greeter exists seven days a week without fail. All things considered, it's surprising and unexpected, yet once you've spent five minutes inside the space, the vibe feels just right. As the front door slides open, you walk in, look up, and staring you in the eyes from the enlarged photograph covering the wall is James Baldwin. In a row of five, he sits in the second chair from the right. With his legs crossed, he delicately holds a saucer and demotoss mid-stir of a shot of espresso. Baldwin greets you without saying a word. The look in his eyes welcoming, yet slightly accusatory. As if his gaze simply says, well, it's about time. And now our conversation with Nicely. Welcome to the dial-in with Farm Cup Coffee. Today we have someone really special. We have Nicely from Minottis. We have Brian as your co-host and myself. Well, thank you so much for coming in today. I am literally sitting amongst people who are great in the in the coffee industry, so I'm a little taken aback, but it's a pleasure, man. Honestly, look, we stand in shoulder to shoulder, man. We sitting, you know, just across the same table, you know, so I'm excited to be here. I mean, when I was reading about about you guys and when I was like really just going at it, there's just so many things that I want to bring up in the conversation as we go on. But seriously, you I think you've changed a lot of my perceptions and coffee and, you know, idolizing your guys's shop and everything that you do is amazing. So, man, I'm touched, man. Honestly, that's a I'm in a position, you know, I'm quite reflective, you know, of hearing some of the words, you know, and expressions and stuff, you know, and to honestly to sit across from somebody in these days and age, you know, and hear somebody express that, you know, honestly, it's it's quite touching, man. I appreciate it very, very much. Thank you. You guys have paved the way. So I think that's that's like great that you came here and it just the coffee industry overall can be sometimes a little difficult to like break into just because there's like a high barrier cost. And obviously, there's a lot of learning that has to go on before you can, you know, pull a shot and be like, Oh, I'm happy with this. And then even that is very subjective because you can be, you know, a month before you actually pull a great shot. And then once you pull it, you're like, Oh, this is great. What I was chasing before it's not that great. So having someone like you guys that created a whole vibe on Venice, it's just amazing. You know, Venice to me has always signified a very kind of like area amazing place in Los Angeles. And for you guys to kind of like set up shop and then create something so great amongst, you know, a neighborhood that was up and coming literally like maybe like 15 years ago, I want to say that it wasn't like the one of the best neighborhoods to live in. How long ago was that? No, it was eight years. I mean, honestly, I'm listening to this and stuff, you know, and I'm impressed to agree with the two ends of this that you can approach a conversation, you know, like this from because to set up in Venice, you know, you say, you know, like 15 years ago that it was, you know, one of these hot up and coming neighborhoods and stuff, you know, man, I got to give like full respect to, you know, the Venice that was there a hundred years before me, the area that I feel like we were dropped into, you know, we had to kind of like hyper learn, you know, how to embrace and adapt with this neighborhood that was changing so much that was coming from, you know, this classic bohemian artistic neighborhood, at least that particular iteration of it, you know, as of like, you know, 20 years before let alone, you know, all the gang violence, everything else that was happening, you know, throughout that time, everything else that happened in Venice before that too. So, you know, here we are, you know, this sign of the gentrification, you know, that was, you know, happening in Venice, you know, and I'm talking specifically about intelligency of Venice, you know, so when we first started that, you know, I mean, I was first embraced by that Venice, you know, and that was about 13 years ago. Yeah, it's changed so much since then, you know, and it's, there's hot neighborhoods to live in now and everything, you know what I mean, but when I moved to Los Angeles, Venice was why I moved to Los Angeles. Where did you move from? I was relocated from Seattle, so I was working at this place called the Spurs of Ibaacce, intelligency of coffee and tea. Basically, on the recommendation of Kyle Glanville, relocated me, you know, he's like, you know, we should get this guy to help us open up intelligency of Venice, you know, he and I were familiar because I knew his wife, we worked with each other at Spurs of Ibaacce, then I moved here, you know, 13 years ago and, you know, like it was my idea of California for sure. I wanted to see palm trees, I wanted to be near the beach, you know, and so we get there and for me, learning all these different people that I, you know, I was interacting with in Venice was very much the foundation for what I understood Menades was going to need to be about, kind of rounded back about, you know, to Menades, that we were going to need to embrace the history of Venice while being excited about, you know, pushing it forward and doing something new and fresh. So I think it's so much of the importance of, again, embracing, you know, the community that was not only there before, the history that was there before, you know, and given its due respect, but being willing to be bold enough to be confident enough to also to present something new and this coffee community, you know, like I said, on the street hadn't really been done before in a way that helped make even that street that much safer too. You know, I don't know that you would see this going into it, but it's almost like it takes just after the fact to be able to look back on it. And it was like your love combined with Venice, plus your understanding of the area in the Intelli iteration, and then just knowing how to find that right pocket with Menades to kind of say, no, no, this is a part of that Intelli iteration, but this isn't this is the next evolution of that. No, it's true. And I mean, the benefit to having even bounced around a couple of other neighborhoods in Los Angeles to the, you know, the arts district when it was just bubbling or in West Hollywood, you know, when it was, you know, first bubbling to, you know, to not only, I guess, spread a bit of the community, you know, that one went in the same way that, you know, when I worked at Espresso Bivaccio, these different locations, yeah, I would see customers that would still bounce from those other locations. Well, doing that in Los Angeles, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, I'm seeing some of these other people bounce to these other coffee shops, you know, and all of a sudden the network and the community, like I said, is expanding and expanding. And giving me this appreciation of these different neighborhoods, you know, in Los Angeles, again, to translate to being the foundation of why it is that I love Venice so much, you know, and why it does feel so natural to me in a way. And it's a lot like, you know, it's a lot like my hometown of New York, you know, the melting pot, you know, for lack of a better, you know, term right now, it really, really is, you know. And I think Venice is one of those neighborhoods that you'll have a harder time while gentrification will come in and waves, you know, of mega money and all this type of stuff, you know, definitely come in and out, you know. The fact that Venice, like I said, is what it is, you know what I'm saying, is constant, you know. I don't, it will still always have a bit of grit to it. It will still have a lot of this street art sort of vibe to it. Okay, so if you can go back in your head to like the first month that Minotti's Venice opened, you know, first month. Sure. Which is amazing. We're coming up on the eight-year anniversary of it, too. Congratulations. October 1st is the... That's a benchmark. You know, I got, I mean, I think every year is a benchmark, truthfully. No, that's fair. In respecting what... That's fair. Again, you talk about, you know, all right, excuse me, I'm empowered or a purpose, feel that much more purposeful to speak about both ends of like the grind from the beginning to even being, you know, responsible for the business to a degree now, you know. That eight years, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's something to say, you know. I mean, like for a business, especially, you know, we had this pandemic and everything and we, I mean, we just do coffee and not to simplify it to a degree too greatly by saying that, you know. But the fact that our focus is beverages, you know, it's not food, not a roaster, you know what I mean? So it's not like crazy beans. So it's like, yeah, that's a huge thing for us, you know what I mean? But it's not like our focus, you know what I mean? So if you go back from like where something like Culver is now and even Venice to first month of Venice being open, like how have you seen the community shift and change for the better? Wow. For the better in the sense that it's grown, you know, period, you know, that yeah, because we've been consistent and there and open, I mean, we weren't closed for a full day up until the pandemic happened, you know, in the first, you know, six plus seven and a half years, whatever we were open, you know. And there's a lot that goes into that. A lot of people worked hard, you know what I mean, to even to maintain that, you know, even to get to that point, you know. So the fact that it grew is, I think, something that impresses me quite a bit, you know, like, yeah, that it's even a global thing that blows me away. You show up, you dedicate, you know, to doing something daily, you know, anything, you know, and it's going to produce something, you know, and it's produced this community or it's fostered this community in Venice, you know, that has you say, you know, you ask like, how for the better? Well, I think that that's been in whatever it's needed to be for the waves, you know, not, you know, it's near a beach, that makes sense too, you know, the waves of different generations of cultures that have come through almost in a way, because business in, you know, next to the beach for a lot of people tends to be seasonal, right? And yeah, that's for sure. But you know, sometimes we get a little busy, honestly, you know, that comes with it, you know, but we stay consistently busy period because we have this neighborhood around us, right? And appreciating how, well, some of that neighborhood leaves for a certain amount of time and who comes in when they leave, you know, and the season, you know, even though we got this nice summer season for most of the time, you know, well, people still travel, you know what I mean? And we, again, we have this constant influx of people coming in and out that it's always good for them to kind of touch base at that place whenever they come in and out of town, you know, and that helps be this point of reference. And I think comfort, I think for some people, as they, you know, embrace the city or live in a city, that's what's been good. That space has been good just for them, for the community, you know, that's, that's how it's been better. What really stood out to me about everything that you've been saying in the communities and everything, it's that the community, the third place, the ability to connect further with the customer. And I think when I was looking into my, into my own journey in the coffee industry, I was like, there's something missing from all this from the general ability to go and get yourself a cup of coffee anywhere. There's no relationship in the space that you're in and coming together in there and being able to enjoy something with the people behind the bar, but also with the people that are not behind the bar. And I think what you talked about is super important because you have created that community and that love, I guess that's what it is. It's that love for the people and for what could happen while they're getting that coffee. And I enjoy that a lot because one of the biggest things that I noticed over here in America is that it's like, get me out of here as quickly as possible. And that connection between what you're doing, how you're doing it and just all the effort that you're trying to put into that coffee and what you're trying to give that customer really shines through. And I think you guys are fantastic at that. And that is really important because I feel that we've lost a lot of that connectivity to the actual enjoyment of the coffee sitting down with people and talking around coffee, but also about other stuff, about our lives and our stripes and being human and having this lovely space that sometimes does not exist anymore. And we tend to forget that as consumers that we're so wrapped up in the rush of our lives that it's supposed to be an enjoyable time. You're not supposed to leave right away. You can enjoy it there. You can talk to us. You can talk to other people. I give that moment full respect. You know what I'm saying? And you said the word. I think I heard privilege in there somewhere and stuff. And that's what I want to highlight and stuff because we live in a city in Los Angeles and stuff that has such a crazy dichotomy of super duper fucking rich and crazy poor. And having spaces or an ability to I think at least welcome, like acknowledge people of anywhere in that spectrum. I think is we're a coffee shop ought to shine within its neighborhood that it has this ability. And again, the ability to learn how to dynamically embrace every one of them so that way they feel welcomed in your space. It takes a lot of coaching. It takes I think a lot of understanding of being human. You mentioned that because again, like I said, you never know where somebody is coming from in their day and their life. And having this balance or coaching a balance of like, we get to be uber geeky about this and get paid to come and make these drinks and listen to music and interact with people and stuff. It's not to muck up that again, it's a business. It's transactional. But when we can have the opportunity to supersede that and grow the community and engage in a way that feels genuine after you learn your regulars, because I even like I coach like learn a customer's drink before you learn their name. Don't get me wrong, like learning somebody's name is dope. But man, I got to admit I smoke copious amounts of marijuana and stuff. But whatever reasons, you know, like making, you know, the same drink for somebody three, four, five times, you know, in a row. Boom, I got that long lock. I can see Americanos and lattes and cappuccinos walking up and down the street in Venice. You know what I'm saying? Like I know everybody's working like that, you know? But again, in understanding and respecting, look, this is a business you came to. I'm here to, you know, make you a cup of coffee, you know what I'm saying? And here you go. Have an amazing day, right? So getting that down. Now, you know, all right, now I can be like, all right, man, notice you had a book with you the other day and stuff like that, man. How'd you like that book? Oh, man, what's your name? You know what I'm saying? Oh, man, yeah, you know, we've been chatting, you know, the last, you know, a couple times been in, you know, felt like it's time to, you know, make it official and stuff. Man, it's a pleasure to, you know, meet you, you know what I mean? And build rapport and build the trust, you know, that when somebody gives you their name, all of a sudden, it's like the relationship is like, I've got your name. I know who you are. But even on your side, and even like what I would use to do in the past is like the thing that's happening below the surface that we just take for granted, I think in every other walk of life is like, there's a level of intention and mindfulness that happens as soon as you remember that person's drink, because the next time they come in, maybe you don't throw it out there right away. Maybe you want to make sure they get that same drink three or four times in a row to kind of note that like, okay, this is their job. This is what they're doing. But as soon as they come in on that third or fourth time, and you're like, oh, hey, what's up? Okay, but you know, you can see what happens in that moment. It's like their body excels without them even knowing it. Well, they feel cared for all the same. They killed care for it. You know, we say that I don't know if it's a it's more of an East Coast sort of thing, you know, but like I, you know, my mom and people growing up, you know, take care, take care, you know, take care, you know, and it's been pointed out that, you know, whatever it is about my service, you know, that people really enjoying everything, you know, they feel well taken care of all that type of stuff, you know, it's like, well, yeah, people want to be feel at some point taken cared of, you know, and if what you do is making great coffee, if you take care of that and they are receiving that, well, they're going to feel cared for about that. And then you're going next level, you know what I'm saying? By being sure like, look, man, you don't got to worry about, I saw you, I'm already working on it, you know what I'm saying? For some people that does that they feel taken care of. And then it becomes sustainable because you're doing that across the board. Well, there's the surfer, the 19 year old skateboarder, or the 30 year old freshly minted Oscar winner. You're giving them that same kind of equal kind of like attention. I think people in a space feel that without knowing that that's what they're feeling. It's kind of like that X factor of like, oh, there's something going on in the space. Yep. You guys touched on the third space sort of thing and that kind of warped me back to being 16 years old working for Starbucks in Seattle. We did a week long of training. It was like three and a half, four hours long each night after I was off of school. It was between like four and like eight or nine o'clock or something like that for about a week at their headquarters in Pioneer Square. And they touched on a lot of, you know, sort of these things then, you know, like this third space, you know, sort of thing like, you know, it's not home, it's not work, it's this other place, right, that you go to, you know, to either dip into your community, you know, or decompress, you know, before you go to one of the other places. I think being 16 years old and hearing that then, you know, was an amazing primer for my mind to appreciate in any space I was going to be in customer service related, you know, what sort of environment could I help facilitate by being there and being that third place for people. This is really a part of what you do when you have a space like this, you know, and so it's been so heavily ingrained in me that I think that's, you know, again, it's part of the coaching, not even calling it a third place or, you know, whatever, you know, what I try my best to coach in my staff, you know, or my people that I work with, you know, and it's like, you know, look, you've got this opportunity, you know, these three to five minutes and stuff, you know, to kind of help somebody, you know, disengage or, you know, kind of get through their day or laugh or vibe a little, you know what I'm saying, and it's your privilege, you know, to a degree to be able to not only do that, but it's also theirs, you know, and the excitement that we get to do it at all, you know, it is, it's the privilege. We'll be back to the episode right after this message. Today's episode is brought to you in partnership with Chobani. Chobani's mission is making better food for more people, and they've brought that mission to non-dairy by crafting the ultimate oat milk for food service. Chobani Oat Parista Edition. It's plant-based, gluten-free, non-GMO, and vegan-friendly. The formula was crafted for a superior performance and versatility, whether adding to black coffee or creating the perfect microphone. Chobani Oat Parista Edition will satisfy your caffeine needs and delight your customers. And now, back to the episode. I almost want to intentionally use this language because I think it's important for the whole conversation overall, like the conversation happening outside of these walls. So the world in general, the industry, every industry is talking about, you know, sustainability, you know, reducing this, and what are you doing here? What are your alternative milks? What's biodegradable? But I think the element of sustainability that COVID has kind of laid bare is now as we kind of move out of that phase slowly, we're also rebuilding communities. And there's something that talks about the sustainability of brotherhood, sisterhood, community, neighbors. You've already been successful because you've already been doing that model. And now you guys are somebody that can be leaders in reminding other businesses and companies like this is one of the ways out of this because everything we're doing sustainable with our products and goods, like in the end, it means nothing if we're not creating a sustainable, supportive community. Dude, you're totally right, man, because we're looking at, you know, the 21st century, everybody has an ability, literally in the back of their pocket to, you know, find information or order things at an instantaneous sort of moment. You know, and we've lost sometimes the ability, yeah, to be present enough to, you know, allow the time some things it takes to happen. And I think when the pandemic took and we had to adjust a little bit, you know, adjust our service model, you know, yeah, to be basically like a window where people could order ahead, you know what I'm saying, and pick up. Man, it crushed my soul to degree as a barista because, yeah, that connection that I, and I don't think I've realized it as much until we're well into it, you know, because I think part of me was maybe like a little okay, again, having been a barista as long as I have been put as much energy as I do into people as often as I do and everything, like, yeah, the batteries every once in a while need a little recharge, you know what I'm saying? And so I think I was okay initially, you know, like, you know, show up, crank out tickets, go home, you know what I'm saying? That was okay. But I needed to be reminded, you know, to a degree, you know, like, yeah, how much I missed, you know, the ability to talk with somebody as I was making their coffee, it helps the pacing, you know what I'm saying of how you make these drinks, you know, because when somebody can order, you know, a head, you know, and then they show up and it's not ready, but because they don't understand, well, these other five people showed up, you know, right then and somebody has a tremendous, you know, app out there, I'm sure that, you know, and I'm actually familiar with one right now that, you know, does a great job of like, when people are geopositionally close to the shop, then that's what the order fires, da, da, da, you know, like, great, you know what I'm saying? I'm glad that there's an ability to embrace that particular customer. And we had to do that for a while. And we were happy to, you know what I'm saying? And a lot of our customer base adjusted with that time, like we all were, you know, to place orders ahead online. The amount of, you know, coaching we would have to do for some people to get through, you know, the website to pay, it was herky-jerky at some moments, you know, but then it was rapport affirming at other and trust affirming and we built better relationships, you know, with some of our customers as a result. But the ability to, at one point, when we were told, okay, like, you can kind of reopen and all that type of stuff, you know, like, okay, cool, you know, let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. You know, we're doing it tomorrow. Let's do it. I'm telling you, you know what I'm saying? I don't think a few weeks past before we're like, all right, let's try and get this to happen. You know, before the conversation to get it to happen was like really reaching its fever pitch, you know, and when we were, you know, like, okay, well, do we keep online ordering? You know what I'm saying? Like, yo, it's clear and people like doing that. Honestly, that's not the way we built this place. I'm infamous, you know, to a degree for saying like, oh, fuck the phone. You know, like, if the phone is ringing, but you got a line of people in front of you, fuck the phone. It's kind of the same thing, you know, like, I still feel like even to this day, you know, it's like, you know, well, if I got people in front of me, you know, like, fuck the internet. And I feel really, really, really happy that the fear initially from our group to keep online ordering was, you know, a non-issue within three or four days of reopening. You know what I'm saying? It was like, it was clear, you know what I'm saying? Look, our lines are coming back. It was taking coaching for sure. You know what I'm saying? That people that had been so accustomed to placing their orders ahead, you know what I'm saying? We're like, oh, wait, we noticed that, you know, you can't order online anymore. And they're like, well, yeah, you know, we wanted to go back to like how we built this place. And like, we value so much of this, you know, and that we could talk through that with some of the regulars that were coming through again, you know. And I promise you, I read a few emails of people being like, oh, we really preferred the online ordering. We're not going to come in anymore. Or, you know, please bring back that as an option. I feel you, you know what I'm saying? I don't even mean to make that I'm saying, but like, that's how it felt to me to do this. I'm like, yo, again, that's a privileged problem to express. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, yes, you are inconvenienced that now you can no longer place your order while you're brushing your teeth before you head out there. You know, I get it. But we were, you know, you talk about you can show people how to come out of this. Man, if we can show people how to come out of these solitary confinements that we, you know, been sequestered to for the last, you know, year plus, you know, and get to be with people again and stuff, you know, I'm going to be excited to provide that opportunity. And so, yeah, I mean, within, you know, a few days, a week, two weeks, you know what I'm saying? We're seeing like, all right, you know what I'm saying? The numbers look solid. Like we got a line, you know, people are coming through again. You know what I'm saying? Like there's a reason why, you know, we did it this way. We didn't need online. I want to bring it back just for one second that I've been trying to like formulate this in my head. But it seems like you came from an era of coffee where it was really splitting off into what we know today. And you've seen the industry grow, adapt through multiple challenges. You know, there's been recessions from the times that, you know, maybe you were in Seattle to now the pandemic and everything. And it has forced us to change the way that we see coffee. But you've seen it throughout it all. And that is pretty impressive because all of the concepts and the ideas that you're talking about, you live through them rather than learning about them after opening the shop, like the way that I did. Bam! There's where that, oh, it takes one month to pull a great shot of espresso. Right, right, right. So then all of that is quite amazing. I almost want to put the word on it. It's kind of like the renaissance of coffee on your side. Like you've seen it so many times in waves and everything. And with that, you know, like I see your shops and they're amazing and what your craft, I mean, it's a craft, you know, it's an art and it's a love. And I really appreciate that. Where do you see the coffee industry going from now? I think if I can continue to celebrate spaces where much of the same way we celebrate, you know, culinary professionalism, you know, where we sell it, you know, we are excited about particular chefs. We're excited about particular bartenders. We're excited about restaurateurs doing certain things. You know, I want to continue to see, you know, people empowered to create those spaces in neighborhoods you wouldn't typically, you know, yeah, anticipate them being and stuff, but be reflective of that neighborhood. I mean, I've read crazy conspiracy theories about, you know, like, will coffee even be around in 50 years? And so I go, I hope so. You know what I'm saying? But I really think, again, the idea of focusing on you know, you say craft and stuff, you know, but, and that's applicable, I think, to any chosen passion, you know, that your dedication, I'm a shout out Kobe even right now to be like, you know, that mama mentality, if you will, of just sticking to it and, you know, being about it. I think there are so many different, like, voices in the coffee industry coming up, you know, that if they are empowered to own that voice, that perspective, that aspect, whatever, you know, to provide a space, you know, for their niche or their people, I'd like to see that possible. You know, yeah, you talk about the era that I've come up in everything. And yes, sometimes, you know, it is trippy to think about, like, yes, since I was 16 years old, I'm 36, you know, now and stuff, you know, I've been in coffee, you know, I think I was out of it, total of like a year and a half, and even then I still had a part-time job, you know, in coffee. You know, so I've seen a lot of different in and outs of it, you know? So I, in appreciating that, it's like, well, yeah, the constant has been showing up and fostering genuine relationships, you know? So, and I've only seen that possible, honestly, for a lot of white folks to be real about it, you know? And you talk about that privilege, you know what I'm saying? That people, you know, enjoy the experience that I'd had, the majority of the time, you know what I'm saying? Coming up, up until maybe the last two or three, maybe five years and stuff, you know? Was that a lot, like I said, I was existing in what is a very sort of whitewashed world, you know? So my excitement, you know, to sit across from you and understand like, yo, man, this is somebody that, you know, and I can resonate with and feeling like, you know, as a person of color as well, too, you know what I'm saying? To have had the opportunity and the privilege and stuff, you know what I'm saying? To create a space that he can have his voice amplified or amplify the voices of a community and stuff that he feels strong about and everything. That's a future, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's exciting to see more people be empowered to take that, you know? And know that it's okay, because, you know, when I was coming up, it was like the barista, like I was mentioning earlier, is a stepping stone sort of job or being a coffee professional or career coffee professional, so like that, you know, like what? And there are so many different definitions of what that is, I feel like within this industry that again, just people, you know, I want the future to feel like those, you know, the people that look a little bit like me and different, you know what I'm saying? Feel empowered and comfortable to really go for those opportunities, you know? And when you say like, you know, you were, sounds like you were like a perfect place to, you know, like, yeah, you know, they say luck is when opportunity and preparation meet, right? And, you know, I believe in that, you know? And I'm in a position right now where I'm trying to prepare a whole lot for a lot of luck to come my way right now, you know what I mean? But I think when I've worked, you know, shoulder to shoulder with a lot of baristas and stuff, you know, or I've impressed somebody from across the bar enough to go and start their own coffee shop, the great blessing of that stewardship would be a part of something that, you know, look, I was impressed by somebody so much, you know, that I wanted to be in coffee, you know what I mean? And I'm a conduit now for that same style of, you know, impression or that same impression for somebody else to want to do that. And that's an amazing future to pay forward to, you know? So I think, yeah, putting value in these community events that, you know, celebrate all these different people getting into coffee, you know, and learning about it, you know, and then empowering them to learn more and appreciated in a way that I think then, if they appreciated in a way that much more, well, then when they come to a coffee shop, you know, what they pay for it, what they, you know, understand about it becomes that much stronger, you know, again, because it's being, you know, sort of reinforced not only by somebody who wants to live it and do it, you know, but somebody who's appreciating it. Like most third wave coffee shops, the drink menu at Menades is minimal. For a time, this approach was, for some, off-putting. In a consumer culture that's accustomed to supersizing, the notion that each drink on a menu is offered in only one size may seem unheard of, if not an outright act of counterintuitive capitalism. Menades has been around the block long enough to anticipate such reactions. Despite the minimalism of the offerings, the menu ends with a gesture of encouragement, one that miraculously explodes the possibilities of the menu wide open. Don't see what you're looking for? Let's talk about it. And just like that, in the blink of an eye, the possibilities within minimalism are not only welcomed, but encouraged. This is a space where they're determined to do what they love the way they love to do it. But not at the expense of the fulfillment of the visitors sliding through the doors. And now, back to our conversation with Nicely. This reminds me of a great teaching that I received while I was in the farm in Peru. And it was the whole family, all of us together having dinner after we had just gotten there from Lima. And the dad who had been doing this for all his life, actually, yeah, because he was the third generation doing it and now he has his fourth and fifth generation already coming into the coffee industry with him. And then he was like, coffee is a super competitive environment, but there's more than enough for everybody and you have to create something that you love and that other people love not out of love for money, but out of love for what you do. And you will never fail. And when he told me that, it changed my mentality of what a business owner should be in America. You know, like coming from Mexico, coffee has a very different feeling and love for it than America does. And it was, Mexico is like, let's have coffee as a family with some bread after dinner. Community, love, family, that's what it meant to me, right? And so I went in that direction. And then Peru with La Chaca de Lago, who is our farmer, he basically told us, when you do this with love, everyone will understand it. And if there's a competitor next to you or down the street from you, it doesn't matter because you can share the wealth that coffee brings to everybody just as long as you do it with love, with purpose. And I think that's what you guys do so well. And I really enjoy it. And you touched my heart by like letting me know about the voice and everything. Yeah, like a lot of the coffee industry where when I was starting to learn it, you know, through videos, YouTube, you know, paper material and everything, it was a lot of white people. And I was like, where are the people who have crafted the coffee, who have roasted the coffee, who have grown the coffee, all of these things in between to get to that cup and then have it in front of you and wherever in L.A. it is. And it's missing a lot. It is really strange. Wow. When Kyle Glanville first recruited me to work for Intelligency, you know, he I think had a different idea of like what kind of a barista he was going to make out of me. He had already been a barista competitor. Have you have you seen any of the barista competitions, by the way? I have seen a couple. Yeah, I mean, so it's quite the pony show to do. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, of course. And I've found this sort of definition to, I think, be OK with it to a degree because I started to buck against it again at some point. Barista competitors were doing a great job of putting a bit of a spotlight on being a barista at all and what daily baristas do. You know what I'm saying? Help facilitate the ability for a barista competitor to do what they do. You know what I'm saying? So I saw the hands, you know, kind of helping each other, particularly at Intelligency, where was such a focus, right? And so again, that focus was something I think, you know, Kyle had for me at some point. And I had only participated in like one latte art competition before I came down to Los Angeles and stuff, you know? But I think he saw in whatever my flair was on bar and stuff, you know what I'm saying? He's like, oh, man, this guy's got to compete. And I got to be honest with you, for whatever it is, barista competition just never really appealed to me, you know, in the same way that latte art competition felt so again, real and practical. I'm literally pouring something thousands of times, you know, and I'm getting practice from that to hand, you know, to you. And I still get to have a life outside of that, you know, I still get to go take, ride my bicycle, take pictures, you know what I'm saying, outside of that, you know? For the barista competitors, you know, all due respect to them, you know, they had to, you know, like go in after hours and spend time at the lab, like practicing runs, you know, all this type of stuff, you know? And I learned that as a result of like Kyle starting to kind of like prime me and put me through those paces and stuff, you know? And like, I started to learn like, oh, this doesn't really feel like my sort of thing. And I think that really disappointed him at some point. Again, I was still impressed so, you know, so much so then we're like, what am I practicing for? Some of what you practice for barista competition translates to bar, but not all of it. But everything you do on bar translates to being in a barista competition, you know? And so appreciating the level of attention you learn, you know, from barista competitors, you know what I'm saying? It was definitely everything I've translated to being on bar, but the ability to, you know, recognize like, man, like I want to see more people, you know, out there, while massaging the right personalities to be like, okay, well, is this something you want to do? Well, great, okay, well, then we're going to support you instead of forcing somebody to be that person, you know? And at one point I was, they were trying to do that, but like I found my own avenue. Like I was like, look, I like the latte art competition. And look, I went and I did kind of okay at those. And that was just more my speed, you know? But I agree with you. I would pray that in an updated version of barista, you know what I'm saying? That there is, you know, at least one or two competitors and stuff, you know, to represent, like to feel that what it's like, you know, on camera, you know what I'm saying? What it's like for a person of color to go through those competition? I sit here across from you, you know? And I'm saying, I respect this man for everything that he has done and everything that he has created and what he will create. But then I'm like, there's just so much and so many things that have been left on set from people of color that have not been able to come up in this industry as owners. And, you know, it even happens up to this day where people see me at the register or I'm doing something and they think that I'm just another employee, which is fine. You know, I am working my own bar, whatever it is. But there just needs to be representation within the whole coffee culture and it will only enrich it further. We need to bring back those voices and those people, the growers, the farmers, the coffee shop owners from every walks of life and set them up against 10, 15 years of history that have been kind of harsh and also very kind of like leaving us out on the side. And we are the buzzers or what not. I mean, at least for my Mexican folk, you know. No, I agree with that wholeheartedly. And I think I want to echo that, you know, that representation with being backed by a level of education. And we right now, we benefit from the education of people's experiences. At least I do. I wish that I had been wish is one thing. But like, had I been guided, the fact that I was like, I'm not an owner of Menades. Like I'm one of the founders, you know what I'm saying? But that became clearer for me when, again, when the pandemic hit, all kinds of shit hit the fan, you know? Well, I found out, you know, like, oh, man, you're not an owner for as many times as, you know, I've been referenced to as a partner as all the kind of things. You know, like, no, I never got it down on paper. You know what I mean? And so even just the idea of coaching the youth that look like ourselves, that have passion, that have talent, that have, you know, a certain star power, you know what I'm saying? That is definitely exploitable by some companies or by some businesses, you know? Their ability to more confidently, I think, stand for their, you know, their worth, you know, is something that I, you know, I want to continue to champion and to foster, you know, and coach, you know, because I clock in, you know, and I'm a check-to-check dude, you know, despite, you know, the amount of time I've put into what I do, you know what I mean? And, you know, yeah, for a while, I thought I wasn't an owner. And part of that is also like, you know, I treat a space or I treat something like it's mine when I take pride in it, you know what I'm saying? And that becomes, you know, almost, it's palpable to, you know, anybody that comes into the shop, well, he must be, you know what I'm saying? Well, no, it's that pride in my craft and wanting to create something, you know, delicious and beautiful for you that, you know, is a drive, you know? And so again, I think the idea of, like, coaching those that used to be like, man, get it on paper. Go ahead and, you know, make sure you secure, you know, that bag in a way that, you know, yeah, helps, you know, allow the foundation for your future, you know? And look, I dangle by strings here and there, you know what I'm saying? Like right now and everything. But I'm, again, motivated to put that message out there so that way I don't have, there aren't people repeating my mistakes, you know? Now that we're, like, on the edge of coming out of COVID and coffee is kind of evolving once more, like, give me your five-year hope for the coffee industry. Five-year hope? My five-year hope is that a place like Manati is still around. You know what I'm saying? That it's still operating, you know? My five-year hope is that, like I said, I continue to see the faces and the backgrounds being represented, opening up places that I see happening around town right now. And I see a different concept, even for myself, you know, in five years, you know? I have this sincere passion for Lego that I would love to create a space that features coffee and Lego in a way that builds community, not to, you know, pun intended, builds community. That's really cool. I see another space to embrace the art that you can create with Lego, the ability to geek on its history, even, you know, with, like, vintage Lego sets up on a wall or something, you know? Have a space for, you know, kids to play with Duplo or Lego or puzzles or, you know, that has a bar around it where parents can, you know, like, watch their kids doing their thing, you know what I'm saying? So they can have their coffee in that moment. So I don't know, I just see, like, even a different concept for myself, you know, within the industry, you know, it's like, I want to manifest that as much as possible. That's beautiful. So where can people find you on social if they want to track you down? Man, Instagram has been a pretty steady thing. Nicely85 is, works across most handles, most socials. And in the meantime, you can find me on bar between Culver City and Venice, you know, making the coffees. I'll be there. Pulling shots and pouring the drinks. True story. It's perfect. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I'm not only thanking you for the time that you took with us, but for everything that you have done. Thank you. It's really appreciated and we carry on with you. So thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. You're awesome. Thank you for having me. We'll see you another day. That's the truth. See you soon. Thanks, guys.