 Do you work with a producer on both series? Yeah, yeah, I do. And that's an important part of the relationship, I think, and having somebody to help you shape the story and, you know, push you in certain directions or take you away from certain directions. I think that's great, but I am very hands-on. I think that's something I've enjoyed about podcasting as well because I think in radio before, sometimes I have worked with producers where they would effectively shape the story. They'd do the edit. They'd sort of tell me how it's going to be and then I sort of have to write a script around the bits they'd cut together. Whereas, you know, this is very offered indeed, you know, and I'm choosing all the material I use and I'm choosing when to use certain effects and music and stuff like that. So it is very offered. Anything you do, whether it's kind of writing a sitcom, writing a play, making a podcast, it's always the product of several people. Like, you know, if you try and tell the story by yourself, it will not be as good as if you get input from different people. You know, when I'm writing a play, I've found like, you know, the director, the actors, you know, if you have like a dramaturg, you know, sort of script editor in fitterland, you know, all those people help you shape it and then sometimes the things they say to you, you don't totally agree with, but it takes you to a certain place, you know, that does, you know, open something. Sometimes you don't agree with it at first, but then actually you realise they were right all along, you know, and sometimes they're like, you know, they just unlock a door and you go like, yeah, why didn't I think of that? Collaboration and being open to different ideas is a really important part of the process. And clearly, as I said before, with podcasts, with something where you're maybe producing it on a week by week basis, that collaboration can extend to your audience, you know, and, you know, in radio and television, you're generally producing something that's finite, at least in the instance of like a first series, it's finite, you produce it, then you put it out into the world and you say, what do you think of it? Podcasting isn't quite like that, you know, it gives you that ability to react, you know, and to change what you're doing and to respond, you know, so I think we've haunted, like we saw what people were enjoying and we could respond to it, you know, and, you know, that's nice. And it will obviously make an audience engage more if they feel they're being listened to. When you are interviewing your guests, is it on a Zoom with a handheld microphone? I tend to prefer not, I mean, are we getting quite specific and technical? I tend to prefer not setting up on a table and making people really aware of the mic. I tend to prefer having the mic quite low and sort of handheld and sort of going between people where they kind of forget the mic, because I do think you get quite powerful audio out of people forgetting the mic is there. And I mean, that might sound crazy that if you're waving a mic in people's faces, they forget, but if you can keep it quite low if the recording levels are set right. And it makes people talk to you more as well, I think, like if it's on the table as a tendency to sometimes kind of, you know, you want the person sort of chatting to you and having that conversational kind of thing. I mean, if we're getting really kind of nerdy specific, I always record in mono. I try and always record in mono. We were talking about this before, but a lot of kind of new podcastings like this seem to be set up to only record in stereo. Somebody will probably now kind of come in and tell me about how to undo that. But it does seem to me like from zooms, you kind of are locked into recording stereo, which I don't know, it gives your podcast a different sound. Like you get every sort of like rustle of the headphone lead and stuff like that, which makes it feel to me it's more set up for a sort of very static conversation. I like to be able to move things about. I love the kind of walk and talk. I love, you know, to have action in my scenes. I love to think of interviews less as an interview and more as a scene sometimes, I think. You know, like if I've got an interesting person like on the Folsom story, you know, like we had a prison guard, Folsom prison guard, who was a great character. And so instead of just sitting and talking to him, I wanted to get it on its feet and sort of move him around. So we walked down to the gates of Folsom. We took a photograph there and it just feels like then if you're spending the money on going to America, you're getting a lot for your money because you then have the sound of Folsom prison as well as the sound of a room, you know. So I always favor a kind of recording technique and a recorder that allows you to kind of be very reactive and be moving and out and about. Yeah, I've always liked that. A sense of movement, yeah. That's really helpful. And it's funny when you speak it, I'm obviously putting it through this entire prism of where I'm going next with this podcast. There's so many different ways of going about it that there is no one right way. No, no, definitely. And I think, you know, this is the thing like, you know, we're sitting here talking and, you know, loads of podcasts are set up with that with just two people sitting on the table talking. It's really easy to do and edit wise. It's really easy as well because you could edit this in any way you want at any point. There's no sounds in the background. They're going to sort of affect your edit, you know. But, you know, another way to do it would be like, you know, me puttering around making a cup of coffee and tea and and toast for you whilst this is going on. And that instantly does give you a sense of character and it plunges you into, you know, a sort of sense of how the person lives. I think it's horses for courses because sometimes you want your into you totally unadulterated and, you know, you just want to hear what the person is saying. And other times it's really nice to get a little glimpse into their life. You know, I love that. That's sort of the sound of a kettle in the background and sort of cups of tea being made. I think, you know, that can get distracting at points. But I think sometimes it's a really nice way to set up an interview. Sometimes I find myself using that kind of, you know, arriving at someone's house. I always try and record when I'm arriving at someone's house. Being even recording in the car as we get out the car and, you know, like I'm full some until we seem to be constantly greeted by people with dogs barking, you know, so almost every interviewer seems to be giving me getting out of a car and dogs barking with me. But, you know, yeah, like pottering about and sometimes you get those kind of little funny eccentricities of like the way someone lives, you know, like, you know, that they, I interviewed the 83-year-old former drummer of Johnny Cash and, you know, he was very deaf and he was like, you know, come and sit here. I've got to get my best ear, you know, I think it was like my best no good ear on the case. And hearing all that stuff, you know, just instantly paints a picture, you know, even though you can't see this guy, you kind of, you kind of can in a way, you know. So, yeah, again, we get back to that thing that in podcasting, you find yourself including stuff that you probably at the beginning didn't think was ever going to be relevant or necessary. But by the time you get to that stage at the end when you're doing the edit, you realise that those little extras, those little kind of seeming kind of irrelevance has painted a brilliant picture of this person and bring him to life. That's Danny Robbins and this is the Podcast Producers podcast with me, Neil Mossy. It's a place where podcast producers share their tips and experiences so that everyone can start a podcast and keep going. There's details of how to subscribe in the description. Thanks so much for getting to this point in the podcast. And thanks again to Danny. The links to him and his podcasts are in the description. And if you've got this far into the podcast, it's really good to have you here. Why not give me a thumbs up or a comment or tweet me. It'd be lovely to hear from you. And there's also details in the description for where you can find the next episode. Can you please help my daddy get 1000 subscribers? Just click on his face. Thanks. Bye.