 Yeah, let's begin this Thursday edition of the Sportsmax Zone with a football head coach of Jamaica's national under-20 male team, John Wall, says that schoolboy football is not the vehicle to sustainable player development in the country. He says the premier competition for under-20 players in Jamaica doesn't mold players into the standard needed to transition to the senior level. Unfortunately, I cannot relate to schoolboy football, converting that to global football. I cannot. It's a different game. So for me, I have to look at how we can recreate it in our environment, and therefore trying to access it in all zones as possible. And that is done through scouts and others, assess the players and so forth. Globally, we're already pretty much fully operative on people who are voluntarily scouting for us and looking and providing scout reports. So I'm pretty close to actually delivering the 60-man squad that will be the provincial list sent to CONCA cap. And from that point, that's going to be the player selecting. Wall also cited how huge the golf is between the Jamaican schoolboy football level and the world standard. How do you convert schoolboy football to a global game? You don't really. You have to bring up a magic wand sometimes. It's not really in the context of the global game. That's the hard thing. Yes, there will be some players, but I'm not going to mention them by names. But senior professional needs is a starting point. JPL is a semi-professional league to the point right now, but I would love it to become a full professional league. You have to strive and improve. Yeah, Jamaica's national under-20 head coach, John Wall, planted to unpack, of course. And so we turn to a man who has tremendous experience as a player, as an administrator, our own sportsmax analyst, Brent Sancho. Brent, I just want to get your initial reaction to the thoughts of John Wall, the head coach of Jamaica's national under-20 team. Good afternoon, Ricardo, and Lance, and to all your viewers. He's spot on. He's spot on, and it's correct in what he's saying. And it's something that has, well, I don't want to use a word plague, but it's something that has challenged not just Jamaica, but throughout the Caribbean. How do we develop our best talent, our young talent, into future international stars, into future club stars, and transitioning from high school football into other domains? And it is a challenge. Back in the day, Ricardo, yes, we would have had one or two that would have left the SSFL, schoolboy football in Jamaica, Grenada, St. Lucia, wherever. I may have gone on to scholarships, may one or two, gone on to the professional ranks, I think. But you're talking about the modern day game and things have changed drastically. And coach John Wall is very, very correct in what he's saying is that schoolboy football cannot be a developmental pathway for our players. Yeah, Brent, can you break down a little bit more as to why schoolboy football cannot be that developmental pathway, specifically as it relates to what it is lacking? Yeah, there are tremendous amounts of deficiencies in schoolboy football that does not run in line with what is Okara with the rest of the world. I think first and foremost, Ricardo, the level of the games. When you look at the type of games that these boys play throughout the season, maybe three or four of those games are high-intensity games, games that they challenge both mentally and physically, and the demands are up there, but still not close enough to what you would see at the international level. And even if you look at the time frame of the league, the league runs for approximately three to four months, and that's it. In most places around the world, football in countries around the world, contact time with a football is roughly about 15 to 20 hours a week. We don't see that in the Caribbean, and again, that's a challenge that comes with schoolboy football. And I just think the entire environment is not one conducive for development of a young player to play on the world stage, and I think that's the key, Ricardo, to play on the world stage. It's not conducive for something like that. So when you look at those two to three points that I've mentioned there, of course there's more. That, in itself, tells you the challenge that people like John Wall and other coaches at the U-20 level will have, and even U-17 have as it relates to schoolboy football and the thought process, that that should be enough to give a young man the international experience to go out and beat a Costa Rica or USA and Mexico. Yeah, let me take the discussion from a different point of view, Brent, because there is the school of thought. Let's use the Jamaican context, for example, the Intersecondary School Sports Association ISSA is responsible for organizing schoolboy competitions, which includes football. Their remit is not necessarily to develop the game of football in the country, but is to give student athletes at the high school level an opportunity to express and show off their talent, which they get the opportunity to do. And it's also competition among schools, which is important for the overall development of students. So it's not necessarily from the standpoint of ISSA, and I suspect other such bodies across the Caribbean about producing world-class players, but it is giving the students who are under their guidance an opportunity to enjoy themselves, to showcase their talent, whatever the case may be. And so the school of thought extends beyond that, that it is the national associations, the TTFA, the Jamaica Football Federation, Grenada Football, whatever the case may be, who have fallen short in building on what schoolboy football produces or gives them the opportunity to do. I get the feeling, though, that it is being suggested that schoolboy football, and I hope I'm wrong, that schoolboy football is just a complete waste of time. Take me up on that one. Well, first and foremost, I don't think it's the fault of the association. I think it's the clubs that are required to develop talent anywhere in the world. It's the clubs that are the ones that are recommended and given the task of developing young talent. Schoolboy football certainly has never said once that they are a pathway or they are the beacon for developing the young talent. So you're right on that side. But I think the clubs throughout the Caribbean has fallen short in that department. And when you look at any club structure around the Caribbean, they have what I would call a skeleton department when it comes to youth football, and they are very short on what is demanded worldwide for developing young talent, simply because they don't have the funds. I mean, that's the fact. And because of that, that is why you've seen that shortfall. Yes, the association can start putting together more meaningful youth tournaments and maybe trying to guide the footballing pyramid in a particular way where so much emphasis is put on to school football. Yes, that can happen. But I think before that happened, you have to understand what is required to develop a plan. I think that development comes from club structure and club football throughout the country in the region. Yeah, a couple of things. I just want to make the point that John Wall had said that part of the issue he was having or is having is that it is difficult to get players who operate at the schoolboy football level, international training sessions throughout the schoolboy football season. And that is a problem. So they may want to have camps, but because they are involved in schoolboy competition, then the coaches don't necessarily want to release them. And at least in the Jamaican case where a lot of these teams and especially the top teams and therefore the best players start preparing from around April, May. And so you are looking at about 78 months where you may not be able to access the players in the way you want. I'm glad, though, Brent, that you went to the point about the clubs and they are the ones who should be responsible for developing a lot of the talent. I'm also happy that you spoke about the fact that they are struggling financially, and that's part of the reason they have been unable to do it. The high school system, though, and not just for football, but so many sports is able to garner significantly more support, whether it be because of their past student associations or whatever else, but they are able to garner the support. Is there a way, because the support comes through the schools, that there can be a developmental pathway that is unique and specific to the Caribbean situation, or is it just that this is not going to work? I don't think it will work, and I'll tell you why. I just feel that because it's a school and at the end of the day, any student athlete that attends a school, their first priority is to be scholastically on par and doing what is recommended throughout the school. A school sport is an extra curricular activity, and that's the key word there, that that is something extra given from the school. A football club is designed and structured to develop talent and to move talent upwards to their senior portfolio and then hopefully sell them on. So they're talking about chalk and cheese here, two separate, completely separate entities that have different endgame, different desires and different wants in where they're headed. Yes, there is a lot of emphasis on winning because us as human beings have that emphasis placed on these kids placed on these schools because of the rivalry, because of the history as part of it. It does not denounce the fact that it is not the correct place for a young man to develop his talent. In fact, I was fast to say, we would, we would go, we would do very well on this program if we had to name schools throughout this world, the top level football teams, that be England, Brazil, et cetera, that players are now applying their training. All players come through the academy for a reason because it's designed that way to develop talent. Yeah, very much the case, Lance, what do you think about this? I think Brent is on the right track because if you talk about players in their late teens and even in their early twenties and you talk about like qualifying for a world under 20 football and so on, when teams from the Caribbean assemble an under 20 squad to face, you know, top teams in Concacat and if they go beyond that to the world level, they're up against 19, 20 year olds who are in big clubs, big clubs like Barcelona and. Yeah, but clubs that are well funded though. And I think that's the real issue in the Caribbean context that our clubs are not well funded. I understand that, but it just puts our backs against the wall because there's no quick fix to the situation. Because Brent, I understand the point you're making. And there has been a school of thought. I know that it would be problematic to get this done. But if you have elite 17, 18 year olds in the Caribbean who are obviously talented beyond schoolboy football level, how then would you extract those players from a school system and put them into a program to to achieve their, their, their highest levels? Because as you mentioned at the top Brent, schoolboy football isn't going to do it. We saw the John Whisper Richards last year representing Kingston College and he was just walking through the opponents because they didn't challenge him. So a player like, like him is, is really settling when he at 17, 18 is playing schoolboy football, when he needs to be challenged to lift his, his talent to higher levels. Well, I first tell you the reality, the reality that we face now is a talent like Whisper and others of that help will have to find pastures outside of the region. That's a fact. What I believe should happen is that we need to as a Caribbean, whether it be at the CFU level or at the country level, develop academies, national academies. That is the only way. The challenge that you have with a regional academy or national academy is then where are these kids and who are these kids going to play against? Yes, it's all good to train and of course be able to try to develop your skills in a training environment. But a big part of player development is also playing those sorts of games, high level games, weekend week out, where they emulate that. And that I think is where the finances come in, because you surely won't get it in the region. They will have to go overseas to get that sort of competition. And one of the benefits that Whisper Richards has, Brent, is that he was being guided by a Craig Butler who understands that schoolboy football cannot provide the genre Whisper Richards with the kind of a development platform that he needs to get to Chelsea, where he is now. He just, to me, played last season in Manningham Football in Jamaica as a token because Butler recognized that his level was way beyond that. And I think he is a good example of being in an academy that understands that schoolboy football cannot, by itself, in its present structure, take a player to high levels of football in Europe and some of the best places in the world. And Lance, I'll go even further. I've covered the SSFL now for probably back about six, seven years, and I have seen players, high-calibre players, and I think can move on to the next level stagnated because they stayed in schoolboy football too long. And again, this is not an indictment on school football as an organization. It's an indictment on the level that they play. If a kid is at 18, 19, running past a left back that's 14 and 15, how is that going to help him develop? And that is what transpires sometimes in schoolboy football. The fact of the matter is for a talent to develop, they have to be in the right environment. And I think that's exactly what coach John Wall was eluding to, creating that right environment for a player to develop and that environment is certainly not in schoolboy football. Yeah, and just to reiterate the point that I was making, I think Craig Butler's Phoenix Academy and how he has operated with Dejean Whisper Richards fully understands that. And they are a handful of other players who may not be as good as Richards is, but are quality players and have a lot of potential, as you just mentioned, but they are stagnating in schoolboy football at the moment because they have been retained by their schools to try to win titles. And that I think is a problem as we try to look forward to develop our players. But it is a topic that has been discussed constantly, Brent, I see that Tyree Spicer, your former standout player in the SSFL, is the number one MLS draft pick now for Toronto. I would like a quick comment from you about how you saw him in the SSFL and his development since that because he's now a high profile player as in his early 20s in the MLS or having an MLS opportunity. Well, look, he's one of those kids that if you saw him in high school, you probably you probably would not have thought if he stayed in Trinidad that he would have gotten to the stage that he got into. In fact, I'm going further Lancet, you know, speaking to other college coaches, they thought he was a bit too raw when I had recommended him to one or two. The fact of the matter is there was an explosion of talent, of development between his leaving Trinidad and going to the States and playing university football for those four years. And that is exactly the point that we're making here in the program is that when a kid goes out into the right environment and that's what Lipscomb provided for Tyrese, he put on size, he became physically better, he became mentally better in the way he is thinking in the game and the way he approached football games and all of that transpired during his time outside of Trinidad. Not saying that the coaches at his former school were not good coaches, but I think in the environment that he was in, they could have only taken him so far. The rest came when he went to university. Yeah, well, Brent, I'm with you on that one. You did make an excellent point earlier on when he spoke about the academies being developed across the region. But the problem with that is who do they play against? We've seen a lot of that in Jamaica, by the way, where a number of academies have popped up across the country and a number of youngsters went to those academies, but they had no body to play against. They had no competitions to play in. You know what happened, Brent? They all found a school and came back to school for football. And so you, when you, when you do the matches, you see a lot of players transferred from Mount Pleasant, transferred from here, transferred from that academy and they're playing high school football and that is part of the problem in the Caribbean. But yeah, we can continue to have this discussion. Brent, it's a pleasure. We appreciate you enlightening us on this one. And I think we are better for this discussion, at least in our understanding of this issue. Thanks very much. I'm a great one, guys. All right. Let's go to a break. We're back with more on the sports man zone after this.