 You're it You're it quit these any quickies. You're it quit these no any quizzes. No starts. You can't do that No, can't not stand that can't you double-stamp that no races cannot triple-stamp that no races No, no, you can't double-stamp another Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels know all about not being too serious That of course the clip from dumb and dumber Today's guest is awesome He's taking the idea of not being serious and not thinking too much and brought it to next level spirituality And that's the truth. I'm a mystic and I believe in nothing because when you have an experience like this, even if it's just for a split second It's just you don't look at things the same way ever again and there's all and I'm you know now years later I've just encountered teachers and teachings talking about this from different angles again and again saying the same thing in different words We get lost in our head and we get really serious about our spiritual journey. So this is what happened to me in my my 20s basically like after I had this experience and then I had other You know, quote-unquote mystical things that happened to me or whatever little strange experiences But you know, I lived it. I went to Zen centers. I lived at a Zen center You know, I got really into different self-improvement teachings all these things, you know I wasn't told I was almost 30 before I realized I'm so full of shit So what I would say is this You you can do these exercises and they'll make you feel better no matter what but when I do them They're what they're coming out of is like, alright, like now like this is let's see like God's here So like physiological, oh, you'll feel better and match your baby they better Have fun with that. It's like the law of attraction people. How do I get a bigger house? How do I make more money? I don't know Shut up stop thinking And like I love you, you know, shut up to stop thinking Stick around for my interview with Tim Grimes Welcome to Skeptico where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers thinkers and their critics I'm your host Alex Sikaris and today we welcome Tim Grimes to Skeptico Tim is the author of a best-selling book It was the number one in its category when I first found it on Amazon The title is the joy of not thinking a radical approach to happiness You know it was still number one when I went back and bought a copy for everybody in my family and sent it to him And I honestly cannot tell you the last time that I did that with a book if ever, but it's it's just short succinct and It's amazing and it's great to have you here with us Tim. Thanks so much for joining me Thank you, Alex, and thank you for the kind words. It's so nice to hear How much you you know appreciate the book and also the fact that you gave the family members that all that always Makes me feel good when people share this information because I think it's nice nice for people to hear it And they don't get to hear stuff like it that often. Yeah. Yeah, you know as we were chatting about just a second ago you know, it's like There's so many things I want to talk to you about yeah from such a straight forward kind of Intentionally simplified book, you know and like I want to say Tim do you realize that this is a radical condemnation of scientism and You know this Consciousness is an illusion and you're nothing more than a biological robot in a meaningless universe That is not what the book is about the book starts out beautifully as a teenage Tim sitting on a beach and Experiencing something that I think a lot of us experience not only as teenagers but throughout our life when particularly, you know, what's interesting, I'd like to hear that the What you slip into that point of this very Kind of troubling feeling oppressive feeling that you're in is that it's triggered by a zen kind of experience Which is supposed to be the opposite of that So I've kind of laid a lot on the table. Tell us a little bit about who you are And then the I love the the origin of this book that the way you open it up sure So first of all, I'm a I'm primarily a writer and an editor of kind of alternative mind body material I've always been interested in the mind-body relationship and I usually Go about explaining and exploring it in kind of a different fashion then most people do especially people in Kind of like the stress management or counseling field And that's why I call I called myself initially a radical counselor because I was basically counseling people on Stuff that they probably hadn't heard about in the way I was going to describe it to them And so I basically I've just always been interested in how our consciousness works and how our consciousness fools us and How we can transcend our rational mind In in different ways that we're not ever really taught in school or in traditional You know backgrounds So that's a little bit about who I am and I you know, I still coach people on the stuff and like I said, I write about it a lot Now getting back to how this particular guide Begins the joy of not thinking it's it's describing an experience I had on a beach when I was on vacation with my family when I was 16 years old and I Was at that age like a lot of teenagers very Inquisitive and curious about you know, what it all meant and I was fortunate enough to Be exposed to some really good Zen books and Zen material at a young age and kind of just found myself Drawn to that stuff immediately and so what preceded This kind of meltdown on the beach that I had was I was reading This famous Zen book In English, I think we usually call it the transmission of light Just old Zen stories about different quote-unquote masters and their enlightenment experiences and It seemingly triggered something in me and I became I had been in you know Many weird situation psychologically leading up to this because I was I was seeking something and looking for answers And I had put myself out there to find them But reading the Zen book not being on any drugs or anything at the time just naturally This fear was provoked by by reading the contents of this book and I couldn't get rid of that fear no matter what I did and It was like getting sucked down a black hole and I was just totally scared and terrified and again I described to the beginning of this book very briefly But it was an overwhelming experience Alex like like you said I think a lot of us have those kind of experiences and then what happened is basically, I don't know what happened, you know, the bottom fell out and Just totally inexplicable and changed my life, you know That was almost a quarter century ago totally changed my life when that happened. Do you describe it almost like some kind of Kundalini experience or or kind of this non-duality experience where you In Zen they call it Satori usually, you know, and I mean the Satori experience and you know in retrospect It's it's easy to say. Well, I was reading about all these Satori type experiences where it's like they go through all these mental hardships and then the bottom basically falls out So in a way, it was almost like well, yeah, you know That's what happened like I was you know, I would say these days I manifested that in some way except honestly I don't really I don't believe that because whenever something like this happens to us It's just way too far out there and people aren't comfortable talking about it is what it comes down to you know What it from it triggered in me a memory that I had long long since forgotten About the same age. I'm reading Just kind of obscure soren kirkin guard. You're in trembling unto death and I freaked I don't even know why I freaked I couldn't possibly understand that book at that age I don't want to like front like I was some Intellectual or something it was way past me, but That's the path of the seeker to open doors that you don't really know what to do I wish I would have had or maybe not because that's the way it is but you know the experience that you had that followed that but I Don't want to take people too far off the trail because this beautiful little book that you've written is a radical I don't want to say radical departure, but you've you put it together in a way That really is different from what people would expect to hear from someone who had that kind of experience that you just talked to It's very straightforward I want you to talk about the title because I think the title is quite profound and when I tell people I want you to respond to this when I tell people hey, I just read this amazing book the joy of not thinking There's this really strange look on their face that does relate to kind of the consciousness is an illusion scientific materialism thing Would they're not even sure what that would mean to Be not thinking and I get that again for my personal experience from where I got into yoga and the first time that I did yoga I did it with this woman on TV, you know the TV yoga and at the end she goes okay now quiet your mind and Tim for a split second is all My mind was quiet, but it was a radical Event for me because I never knew there was anything To me if that little chatterbox wasn't going constantly and I think you've captured that moment that I experienced beautifully and in the title of the book I tell you Tell me what you experienced, but when you tell people a joy of not thinking isn't there this certain? I'm sure there's this fear like what would that even mean to be not thinking Yeah, I love that Which you just said Alex Yeah, people are totally uncomfortable with it It's just I've noticed my whole life My whole adult life I should say because that experience happened when I was 16 It's hard to bring it up, you know, I used to when I was younger like in college and stuff I was go people kind of get this, you know, you're naive in the sense that you think people are into things, you know And then you get all you realize people aren't into anything so I used to talk up much more openly about these kind of concepts and That truth matters not most people aren't interested because they have no sense That what they are is not what they are that there's something bigger going on Like you said that split-second when you're watching the yoga video and you in your mind really quiets again It's like the bottom falls out and you realize you are not what you think you are And that's that's all this guide is about that's all honestly like over the years, you know The stuff I talked to people about and coach people on it's changed a little bit a lot of the You know the theory and the approach but underneath it all it's always the same It's been the same in my life since I was 16 years old. It's don't frickin think stop thinking stop thinking stop thinking That's it. That's all I have to share really. I mean I can talk about some other stuff We can get into intellectual my new show blah blah blah and a lot of it's very interesting But at the end of the day, I don't really care the quote at the beginning of of the guide is It's a the quote is just I'm a mystic and I believe in nothing There's something along those lines. It's the quote at the opening of that book and that's the truth I'm a mystic and I believe in nothing because when you have an experience like this, even if it's just for a split-second It just you don't look at things the same way ever again and there's all and I'm you know now years later I've just encountered teachers and teachings talking about this from different angles again and again saying the same thing in different words You know and this guide is hopefully just bringing all those different angles together in very plain language as you said Because I try to be very direct and plain in how I describe this but it's very difficult for people to understand unless they're really invested in being open with themselves and genuinely curious about what they are And more importantly what they are not you know It's beautifully written it is beautifully written and I the simplicity of it the Kind of redundancy of it is is beautiful because with a couple of words you talk about What not thinking would even mean and then you're playful in kind of putting it down and putting down That little monkey mind that we carry all around but you're not like denigrating it. You're engaged I mean this is all the things that that anyone who's been on the spiritual path understands You know, there is no past there is no future. There's only now and what are you doing right now? But you know the other thing I was going to share that that And I think I got this from the book if not directly in the spirit of it Is again the book has been so profound for me and sharing it with other people has been a real joy And when I get that look on someone's face like they're like, whoa, you know, what would that even mean? Not thinking I go, okay, so you're not down with the idea that there could be no thinking I get that But what about if there was no thinking for the next five minutes? What if for the next five minutes you just said do you need to think you don't need to think for the next five minutes, right? I mean you could live with that and then you see the fear arise again because there's no way to Wiggle out of that, you know with the program that we have we're program didn't think well, that's impossible This Tim guys nuts, you know, but when you say do you really need to think for the next five minutes? And it's like a beautiful did you have any any? Any thoughts or stories on what it's like for people where the light bulb goes off that There's something to this not thinking Yeah, I mean I have a lot of stories because Like I said, I've been trying to talk to people about this for a while and eventually you figure out how to talk to people about it in a more Palatable way for them more of a way where they're they're able to actually accept it and digest it So when I was in college it was hard for me to describe, you know If you know if someone was like high on drugs or something like that or like you were blasting loud music and explaining it to them Maybe they would kind of get the picture a little bit But then, you know, I made a whole video series and that's what the first part the second part of the book I should say is about is just not, you know stopping being serious for just a couple minutes by basically being playful And I've done I've been you know, I've done a lot of work with people now Just showing them how they can be playful for a minute or two and profoundly Shut their mind up, you know, and they're still physiologically responding to stuff. They're still there So it's not like they're really not thinking at all. I don't want to get into like Technicality or thinking not thinking whatever the point is your rational thinking has gone out the window for a minute or two If you become playful And so that's what I describe in the book. I hope pretty thoroughly But if it's not thorough enough, you know, you can go to stop being serious calm and there's videos There's three hours of videos of me not being serious showing you how to be playful for a minute or two And if if you do that, there's very few guarantees in the spiritual field as far as I'm concerned but I feel very confident if You know, if you're playful for a few minutes 100% playful that your thinking is gonna is gonna significantly Lesson and you're gonna be wondering. Oh my gosh, this is so obvious. Why don't I take advantage of this more often? I Did it I I did it I experienced all the things that you say in the book of the you know, you got to get over the embarrassment of it but I want to try it because it's Totally risk-free in trying it, you know, it's free-free. It's risk-free You understand that you've done it a million times You're not gonna harm yourself or anything like that, but I want to draw attention to if we can get a little bit intellectual which is kind of Contradiction and way for the term but not really because you're built on some very very deep Thinking that has been going on for thousands of years. You've just put it together in a way that is fresh and new and really interesting for our Western Instagram kind of Sensibility, but I want to talk about the the bridge you make between not thinking in Seriousness and not being serious because you just talked about it there, but in the book you very subtly make this transition of Okay, you might not be totally comfortable with the idea of not thinking But you're still reading so I bet you're intrigued with it How about we approach it from this angle of what if you were just kind of not quite as serious, you know So do you want to talk about how you see? The serious thing playing into this because again, and we would chat it just for a few seconds before and you said Which I totally get without even you saying it that you can tend to be pretty serious I can tend to be pretty serious. So it's almost like you're It's showing other people how you got out of your head by being a little bit less serious Yeah, I mean that's exactly What has happened in my life is I'm I'm a pretty serious dude and like I I think you know You got to go with the Western Canon and be intellectual in a lot of ways because you can you can learn a lot about yourself by doing that and The issue that most people have in this on the spiritual path as people call it and You know the modern world at least, you know in the Western world is that We get lost in our head and we get really serious about our spiritual journey. So this is what happened to me in my my 20s basically like after I had this experience and then I had other You know, quote-unquote mystical things that happened to me or whatever little strange experiences But you know, I lived it. I went to Zen centers. I lived at a Zen center you know, I got really into different self-improvement teachings all these things and It took about, you know, it wasn't until I was almost 30 before I realized I'm so full of shit You know and I was don't get me wrong I always have been a playful person too like I'm a serious dude, but I'm also very I've always been playful So I always knew that that like That Playfulness made me feel better, you know, or that just drive me in the car listening to loud music I like loudly made me feel better, you know, or just like jumping up and down Made me feel better like for no reason and just kind of waving your arms around Just being really yeah, exactly. But it wasn't until I became I would say thoroughly disillusioned with the spiritual Culture, I guess you should like I would call it of Of, you know, the Western world like or at least the United States that I was like, you know what? This it's really I'm just being too serious about it and what preceded that realization was I got really into Byron Katie, I don't know if you know who she is, but you know, she's she's a great Spiritual teacher just a wonderful teacher and she's very big now And she's wonderful, but I went to you know, several workshops with her and I went to this week-long thing and Leading up to it. I was like, you know, I want to get involved in her organization and learn from her And I went to this week-long workshop with her and it was awesome. It was amazing and she's just amazing She's the best spiritual teacher. I don't like he's not worried, but she was the best spiritual teacher I've ever met But at the end of it, I was like I don't want to deal with any of these fucking people ever again I hope it's okay. I use the F word there, but It was I realized this like this is total horseshit like this whole organizational thing and then The sage on the stage thing as I say on the stage. Yeah, you know, it's good They have amazing information to offer, but there's a cult around these people even if they don't intend there to be a cult around them, you know and So yeah, I was like, you know what so much is that of this maybe all of it is just me being over overly serious about it and if I shut that off even for just a few minutes a day, I'll feel a lot better and I really got into that and Most people don't want to hear it. They still want me, you know, people when they talk to me They don't want to talk about this stuff. Alex. They want to talk about You know how they can get stuff using the law of attraction, which unfortunately I know all about But it's not really what I'm interested in, you know I mean, I'm interested in the consciousness dynamics of that that the inner work that is involved in Quote-unquote manifesting things that interests me and that's what I talk about the the last part of the joy of not thinking but people who want a bigger house or more money If they're coming to me for advice, they You know, they're gonna they're gonna get lit up because I but I have to really say isn't I don't know You know what I mean? Like what I know is is stop being as serious and don't think as much. So You know one other And I wish I would have written down the reference, but I didn't know that we were going there I didn't follow the reference to Byron Katie, but I followed a couple other ones that I found really interesting in the book that I just found interesting. I think what you're doing. I've read a ton of spiritual books. I've been a spiritual journeyer for A lot of years and I so appreciate All the threads that I see in your work, but there were a couple of new ones that were interesting to me Who is the guy who did the thing with the Bushman in Bradford Keeney, that's the Bushman's way of finding God I might have that title that book around but it's something along those lines. You'll find it if you Google it That's just a that quote was just from an ant. That's like an anthrop like a modern anthropology book, but he made the connection That that we're you know, we're all making the obvious connection really that like, you know in most cultures his story like, you know before history You know, if things weren't going right, you just danced around some You know what I mean? You didn't you didn't be like, oh, let's think about this some more and you know get more and more stressed out about it You know, it's like no, you they think we're idiots in a lot of these indigenous, you know, Aboriginal Cultures, you know the quote-unquote primitive cultures, right where they Often know much more than we do You know, so so that was beautiful and I thought that that whole connection between Because I think we can you know, we can overdo that, you know and the quote-unquote noble savage and you know Kind of right things to those people that they don't deserve But then discount some of the wisdom that they have that they do deserve And I love people to come along and take a fresh look and just add it to the pile But the other thing I got him out of his thing that I thought really related to your work in kind of an interesting way So yeah, there's this thing of yeah, just dance around and shake a little bit and do some music You know and it all feels better But the other thing they have a major the bushman have a major kind of slow your roll thing So if you come home with the big kill What you're going to encounter is everyone's sitting around going Yeah, but man that gazelle don't look so good, man. Just all this kind of Really really sarcasm Joking around in order for you to bring your ego down and I thought wow That is like so genius from all the ways that we're talking about it here. Brilliant. Yeah That's just that at all. No, I mean that's just brilliant exactly. I mean like again, it's such like It's uncommon common sense, right? Yeah, it's like it's like that's how you Keep everybody in line, you know, that's how you become harmonious with other people, you know and like with my My good friends I've known for years There's this kind of like Immediate irreverence where no one ever you always are backing each other up. Don't get me wrong. You're edifying each other in many ways But if any you never I never allow my friends to have get a big head or for them to allow me to get a big head And I'm the only talking about people I'm very close to and very informal with you know what I'm saying but Yeah, I mean the idea of having a community like that and again when I was younger I behave more that way with other people that I didn't know as well because I thought they kind of Would get it and now I realize like holy, you know, holy shit. I was like crazy Like in my 20s and stuff like that. Just how I behave like I was coming from a genuine place. So like I don't regret it, but like People probably I mean I people had no idea what the hell I was doing probably most of the time, you know And I mean people still don't know what I'm doing, but I I'm more presentable now And how I go about it. So yeah That's awesome. Hey, so tim um, tell us more about The exercises the the not the playfulness exercises and you know, you kind of dropped a little hint there that I thought Again as we bounce back between the kind of intellectual and dare always say, you know Neuroscience of this to the just kind of practical fun part of it And that's that interrupting a pattern that we have in the way we're organizing our consciousness experience Psychologists have studied that and say wow, that's can be very efficacious for for moving depression and doing all these other things and you seem to have Put that together in this playing kind of therapy so without being too serious about it, but Maybe go into that a little bit more of and you do have some videos that are just, you know, you just put yourself out there I'm playing, you know kind of think speak more of that if you would sure. Yeah, I mean It's a great idea if you can do it and if you get comfortable doing it and as you said Alex It takes some practice just because we're not used to Being playful even if we're in a room alone and we know nobody's watching. We're still not comfortable just being ourselves um, but it can be really helpful to do Whatever you want physically Um to kind of get you out of your head and that some really basic examples are like jumping up and down um making funny faces in the mirror like just, you know, moving your arms all about You know barking like a dog or making animal sounds and hopping up and down um really stupid Stupid things absurd things, you know, if you do goofy stuff like that Um for just a minute or two and you know, if you do it each day if you if you'll notice it Like you just notice it when you do it if you get into it that it it helps you And so if you can manage to do it a couple times a day, that's probably might even be better. Um, it's immediate Oh, I mean it's immediate exactly and again. I hate using words like immediate or guaranteed, you know, guaranteed to work Where but it's just it's a it's a mind body physiological thing where if you get a hundred percent into physically being playful basically um, you'll feel better. I'm not saying you'll feel phenomenally great if you feel like crap before but in the very least you'll feel Significantly better than you did a few minutes before and that's a that's a profound thing, you know, so it is and particularly when it's married to the first part of the book because again to maybe risk over analyzing this stuff, but Some of the people who do the playfulness stuff or talk about managing your physiology in order to change your mental state See it as an end You know rather than a means to an end where I think you're coming at it, which is to say Your mystic thing. I'm a mystic. I'm nothing, you know, there is nothing. There's only this silence that That from which emerges all this beautiful profoundness. So that's what I'm trying to get to I'm not really trying to Get rid of these yucky feelings. That's just That's just kind of what I've Added to that. I need this addition by subtraction of just saying, you know, and you're nodding your head So do you want to speak to that subtle difference of The means to an end versus kind of an end end of itself Yeah, well, what did you describe those people? Like what what what terms do you use for them physiological like uh Experts or something like that or my body? Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean because people take that mind body thing and you know exactly Of course. Yeah So what I would say is this When you you can do these exercises and they'll they'll make you feel better no matter what but when I do them What they're coming out of is like All right, like now like this is let's see like god's here So like physiological, oh, you'll feel better and match your big day better Have fun with that. It's like the law of attraction people. How do I get a bigger house? How do I make more money? I don't know Shut up. Stop thinking And like I love you, you know, shut up and stop thinking, you know, that's that's that's We're talking about god, you know, that's what so that's where I've always come from With this stuff because of this experience on the beach and my background That's my my background for not being serious is the beach experience It's not like how can I become a more productive person and feel better? I mean emotions are just there and it's when we have negative emotions. It can be very difficult there's no need to deny that and Doing this stuff being playful managing your physiology will help but What we are talking about is god So so tim I I do have to drag you into the the muddy skeptical waters that I've weighted in way way too long But I've always had that spiritual sensibility that you're talking about but it does fucking piss me off that so much of the messaging in our culture is Over intellectualizing this stuff and making it sound so true and legitimate and just unassailable in terms of you know, you are just your brain your brain my man You are there isn't consciousness. That's an illusion as Neil deGrasse Tyson says You are meaningless in a meaning because the universe it's not that you are meaningless. Hey, you want to have some Social construct meaning that's fine, but the universe is meaningless So you're meaningless if you can't have any meaning in your life if the universe is meaning meaning meaningless You get what I'm saying. So I don't rail on that because I do it way way too much But did you you must have encountered that experience that in in college or whatever and what have been your Kind of brushing up against some of that materialism. You are just your brain stuff Well, I mean, I just have never fit in In my adult life, there's no place for I say at the end of the joy in not thinking like I've always been staring myself basically a bomb You know, like I don't I don't fit in at all and I always What I was interested in which is this mind body stuff from You know spiritual or whatever you want to call it place. I was very I had a lot of I was genuine. So I had a lot of integrity about Going forward in that path if I was to pursue it and I found that any traditional model I followed like for instance You know going to graduate school or getting a phd about this with what I'm talking about they would say I'm fucking crazy And also any spiritual organization basically including and I had some, you know, I met some great teachers and like I You know, I'm very grateful the time I spent like at you know, a zen center. Those people are just tremendous, but nonetheless that setting even that What would seem to be a safe spiritual setting? Even that was too square for me even like a Byron Katie organization, which is you know, they do really good things It didn't it didn't jibe with what The integrity I had for what I was into and um Yeah, I mean Can I ask you this because I want you to kind of go on on here Um You know a lot of people talk about the east west thing And I think there's something to what the west has brought to this new spirituality One thing I always find offensive is when people kind of say, you know, you should really stay in your lane And I think studying the western tradition if that's your spiritual background I I see that totally differently and I see someone like you who has truly Built upon an eastern tradition, but brought a sensibility to it that is very western And I think catapults is Forward in some undeniable ways that you just look and go The zen folks they just had a bit of a blind spot not putting them down or anything like that but there was a bit of a blind spot that kind of calcified in that system and What do you think about this marriage of eastern and western spirituality? If you want to kind of wax philosophical a little bit I mean, it's I don't know enough about it, but my argument would be neither does anybody else um I've just always been interested In various spiritual stuff. I was not raised religiously. Um My dad had a good spiritual library of stuff I read the the Tao Te Ching the best translation of the Tao Te Ching The way of life by wittner binner when I was like 13 14 years old that was like the book that catapulted me to Whatever came after that. Um, that's the one of my favorite books So that's how that was like my introduction to religion. And so I went to eastern track first from obviously a very western perspective You know being a young kid um, but I got I did get exposed to some of that eastern stuff and The western stuff I don't know enough about it's only been in the last 10 years or even let like the last I'd say seven or eight years that I've gotten more into like traditional western religion in the sense of like The new thought movement, you know, like the mental healing movement Which are all very american. You know that really comes out of this country. Um In the last 100, you know, 50 years or less since, you know, emerson and thorough and then out of that That stuff's fascinating and they you know emerson especially was bringing like The hindu stuff supposedly to the to the west, right? And so I feel like a lot Of that new thought material is still vastly unexplored and that's what I'm really into now talking and you know and working with people with that stuff because it's so unexplored and Difference maybe was what I do compared to other people that do that is that I do have this kind of Zen background. So I think that might be what you're alluding to it's like a marriage of Kind of like new thought ideas Which I try to look at very practically not about it's not about god with new thought for me It's more like how can you practically feel better and get better things in your life by feeling better? um So it's that married to my First like exposure to spirituality, which is more like zen Taoism and you know a little bit of indian non-dual stuff. So, you know, I guess specifically what I was kind of alluding to And I just maybe didn't make a clear reference You have An american approach you have a new england, you know, uh emerson certainly have a new way I have a new england approach. Yes for sure. You know when you said your your buddies, you know I I just kind of see, you know, you got busting each other's balls kind of thing and you know going to other field I'm just like what is going on here because when you first encounter that I think that Catapults is further In integrating this eastern thing and I love the way you say that emerson was doing it, you know 150 years ago And we still don't appreciate it and he was trying to do that integration So let me just this quick side there. I mean thorough or I guess really should say it through. I don't know Um Thoreau is emerson is great, but thoreau is I mean that guy Yeah, he's the freaking best. He's the best Like I mean in my opinion. He's the best american writer You know in history and you know, he throws journals if you just want to read like good Or I should say great um Totally not like just like spiritual writing that's coming with no he wasn't coming He wasn't staying in his lane. He was just doing his thing and he was including all this stuff And so thoreau's journals I just want to give a shout out to that because people always talk about emerson Um, and I know they talk about thorough a lot too, but just thoreau is um But the stuff above just about anybody in my book. So I just Yeah, that's awesome. And there's so much more You know to be done there and so much more that you're going to forward So tim tell us more about Where you're going with this I understand, you know, you being a writer and uh, you know, there's nothing to I think it's totally cool what you're talking about, you know, people want to hear about uh I don't know for lack of a better term, you know, the secret kind of Philosophy or stuff like that. Yeah, I use law of attraction now I didn't used to use that term I just feel like that's the term that people use so it's like why not use it I don't care what you call it. You could call it blobby blue blue as far as I'm concerned, you know It's just like what people understand, you know manifesting law of attraction. These are buzzwords that uh People kind of get you know, and then I start talking about an awful they don't get it, but um Enough people do understand, um Those terms and Yeah, so continue on Alex with your question though. I'm sorry. No, I was just I was just going to say, you know For people they want to check out your website radical counselor calm They can connect with you one on one for some coaching Awesome. You also have these videos that we were kind of talking about it goes to your kind of uh Just some of the fun, uh, this is the manifesting abundance But just some of the fun ones too. Those are at what was that website again? Yeah, that used to just that link used to just be go to stop being serious calm Um, those videos which are like those videos are 10 years old at this point, but they hold up That's still pretty much the favorite my favorite thing I've ever done. Um Yeah, you can go down there too at that bottom of my web of the radical counselor webpage stop being serious is there um Yeah basically What I plan on to be doing going forward, um Constantly changes, but I I look at myself as someone who just likes to share Information that they find interesting and that I find works for when I work with people whether It's as simple as over email or whether it's you know on the phone or Skyping or whatever or zooming um, I just I like to work with people one on one because you really get to see how People are affected by this stuff, you know on a on a real tangible basis um, and then The more that the more people I work with and the more stuff that I'm exposed to and that I practice myself I try to integrate that all into whatever I write next And uh Yeah, I mean I also just like to share classic law of attraction for lack of a better word Books old books and stuff with people because a lot of that stuff As we mentioned it's just been kind of forgotten about or neglected. Um, and I do think we're beginning to see a renaissance um with Some of the teachers that I love Neville Goddard Emile Couet um, I've edited some of their their works and you know, they were teaching in the first basically the first part of the 20th century primarily um And more and more people seem to be drawn to that stuff. I've noticed on youtube There's a lot of new youtube channels talking about their stuff, which is Which is good as far as I'm concerned because they're master teachers. So Well, that's awesome. I always like when people Acknowledge, you know the origins of this stuff because I think it just strengthens and offers further, you know Power to what you're bringing because we're all Standing on the shoulders of other people and mixing all these things together again the book that really Got me so excited and I'm so Glad and joyful that tim decided to join us today But the book is the joy of not thinking a radical approach to happiness Our guest has been tim grimes and tim it's been super duper fun I wish I was there in boston so I could just Head down and have a beer with you or a soda now and then and you're just a guy I think would Make anybody feel better Coaching or otherwise So, uh, thanks so much for being with us. We'll do it someday alex. We'll do it someday. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much Thanks again to tim grimes for joining me today on skeptico the one question i'd have to tee up is What's your experience with? Not being quite so serious How has that worked for you? Let me know your thoughts I'd love for you to join me on the skeptical forum. I really would I'd like to connect with you I'd like to know what you think about the show And the best place to do it is there skeptico dash form. You can find it from the website I'm there. I'll respond if you join me over there. So do Do that if you're interested I have some good shows coming up. I got a bunch in the hopper and i'm gonna start putting them out faster I just don't know. There's so many great conversations and dialogues That i've been able to have and i'm gonna get them out to you one way or another Until next time take care and bye for now