 President Mohammad Buhari has told his fellow leaders in West Africa that free, transparent and credible elections are a panacea for peace and stability in the sub-region. According to the president, democracy and good governance must take its roots in Africa to sustain peace, stability and development, even as he urged leaders to redouble their efforts to guarantee the irreversibility of democracy. He also called on West African leaders to do all within their powers to ensure that elections are conducted in their countries in an atmosphere of trust, freedom and transparency. And joining us to discuss this is Timmy Frank, former Deputy National Publicity Secretary of the All Progressive Congress and NFA General Chairman Rivers State Civil Society Organization. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for joining us. Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you. I start with you, Mr. Timmy Frank. I always like the fact that, you know, we go back to talking about, you know, governments and leadership, the trajectory that Mr. President has put forward since 2015. Now, the president has obviously been out at an event speaking with world leaders about transparency, free, fair and credible elections in Nigeria. But then charity, they say, begins at home. Let's take a look at how the elections have been carried out so far in the country and what Mr. President had to say. The elections, of course, for 2023 is just around the corner. And INEG, thank goodness, has been able to up its game. But the transparency, the atmosphere in which the elections are supposed to happen, all of that is determined by leadership. Can we boastfully say that the president is practicing what he's preaching? Well, let me say thank you very much for giving me the opportunity. Oh, Mr. Frank, I think that you're very good at being able to hear you. Mr. Frank, let's try again. Can you hear me? I think that we're losing connection with Mr. Frank. Well, let's go to NFI. NFI, you're representative of Civil Society in Nigeria. And just as I asked to me, Frank, are we really practicing what Mr. President is preaching back home, looking at all of the things that have been happening in the country? To be fair to Mr. President, there seems to be some level of improvement in our policy and our electoral process, unlike the politicians who want to say that they wouldn't like to see, especially with you, there have been a number of actors that have been trying to do a lot. And of course, they do the versions that they are trying to do, so whether we agree or not, whether you like Mr. President, we want to have the chance to answer. However. Now, Mr. Timmy Frank, I started by asking a question. Mr. President has spoken about free-fair credible elections and secure safe atmosphere for which this can happen in. Now, NFI, before he was cut off, said that we can give the president some credit because he has allowed for certain adjustments in the electoral act that has made some of these things that he's speaking about to be possible. But I'd like to share your own thoughts on what you think. Well, I can tell you clearly, the president should understand what he takes to conduct free-fair elections in any nation. The biggest beneficiary of free-and-fair elections today in Nigeria in 2015, the election that happened to power was free, fair, and credible. But again, in 2019, we respected the same process. But at the end of the day, the election in 2019 was rigged. There were so many outcasts at that time for him to sign the electoral act. But because he was not a believer of free-fair and credible election, he refused to sign the electoral act. In 2020, the Society Group, the international community, mounted pressure on the president to sign the electoral act to enable Nigeria to participate in the free-and-fair process of conducting the election. At the end of the day, the president had to bow to pressure. You could see us at that time, the president signed the electoral act out of pressure, not because he wanted to sign the electoral act. Because the only way we can achieve free-fair and credible election is when the electorate is signed. But by the grace of God, for the first time, they have had it bowed to the pressure that has enabled us today to have a certain level of free-fair and credible elections. But again, we are about to test the water with the trains with the train. The last two elections seemed to be good. Anambra was good. Oshun was good. But we cannot say because Oshun was good. Anambra was good. But today the process is now totally in progress. If you get that question, it is going to be in 2023. We are waiting to see what the INEC and the APC hesitation that he is trying to reach of free-fair and credible elections. Okay. Then after the elections in 2019-2023, they will be able to commend you. Okay. Let me go back to NFA briefly. NFA, your civil society. We have been seeing people advocating for free-fair and credible elections, a safe, civic space for conversations to be had. I mean, Timmy is not in Nigeria, but NFA, you are in Nigeria. You understand the killings, the threats, everything that has been happening in the space of two weeks. We have seen the kidnappings. We have seen all sorts of things happening and meets the campaigns and meets the back and forth between the presidential candidates across boards. And the president spoke again on the fact that, you know, true democracy and good governance has to take its roots in Africa, being that the rest of the continent is looking to Nigeria. And I'm wondering, as civic civil society and talking about the issue of, you know, making sure that the civic space is safe enough for these conversations to be had, what are the things that need to be done for this to happen? Are we having enough of these conversations? And when can we say that we have come to a point where people know their rights, people understand what's happening, and people know that they need to be part of, you know, the process, the electoral process in itself? Yes, I think this issue is a big challenge. But I think our public issues, before they talk, go by. Well, I did say that hate depends on liking. In that sense, to the every electorate deal, for a lot of us who are short, judging from the distribution of the prejudice. But beyond trust and dignity, it has a lot to do with the will of the political class, especially those in government. Especially that beyond the law, that it has been implemented. For example, the issue of security. Because if there is this security fee, the people will not come out. And the people who are short, you know, are kind of managerial, and who are the complainers about the changing of the citizens. We are also able to get a sense that these areas of crime, especially in the northern part of the country, is also suited by politicians in order to scare who will be voted out of the political system. So in this case, I will take that. Then we'll find the electoral deal, which is a good thing, this time, which will come in. The government should be sure that it provides security. I thought to be closing down schools, closing down public sectors. I think the government is bowing. It's bowing to the pressure of rat tags, of safety, safety criteria. On the part of the citizens. By this I mean anxiety, Nigerians, professional bodies. All of us should come out. So we need to raise the bar, raise the capacity. Do it publicly. Of course, we have wanted to, of course, the media too, have a lot of roles to play. And I must commend the media to the size of other professional bodies for raising the bar to an extent. If you, whether you are good or not, the level of awareness and consciousness of what people can do, even if the CDC is very, very hard. People don't want people but who we do respect, and you know, who are very hostile and not so good to the CDC for the short time, you know, and get to the CDC in jail. People don't get people under the CDC. People under the CDC are not so good to the CDC. You know, it's going to kind of work on the media space and the society and others on the edge of the CDC process. Okay. You know what I'm saying? That who has not been in the different government has determined their life for everybody. And because you must get the capacity to fix your caste, you will not change the time of the man. You will not change the clan of the man. You will not change the religion of the man. You will not even change the creed of the man. What you will change is whether or not that mechanic can fix your caste. The only time your children will use to go to school and see what I say, you will get it, the mechanic, wherever you come from. You really should have this at the back of your mind. Therefore, on that day, on the following day, on the day of the election, you should get by the one to get the caste mechanic to fix their caste. As to this five cents, they will put every other animal, emotional, sentimental side. And you will get the best of something. When it's five cents of life, we stay in the concentration. And every other thing that needs a presence in the future, with a presence with acknowledging, with a presence with knowledge with security using modern technology. When the president is modern, to accept, to feel the solution in the hopelessness of this country, is gradually changing into a school of people. It's a decision I will see that the girls should be. I can feel the passion in your voice and I can feel what you're saying. But I'm going to come back to grill you a bit on what more the civil society space is doing. But let me come back to you, Timmy Frank, because you also told me over and over again that you're an activist, you're pushing for a better Nigeria from outside of the country. A few days ago, the presidency released a statement saying that the president has done his best and that the media should intervene to rescue the Kaduna train passengers. Now, the presidency put out this statement on behalf of Mr. President, saying that the president has done his best. Now, the National Assembly, in fact, senators has given the president six weeks to end insecurity. They've also threatened to, you know, impede Mr. President. And on the floor of the House of Representatives, a few people walked out on the speaker, you know, on this issue of insecurity. Now, you obviously know what's happening within the country. And if we must have elections in 2023 that will reflect the wheel, the true wheel of the people, this issue does have to be dealt with. But going back to what Mr. President has said and the message that was released by the presidency, does it seem that we are getting anywhere close to dealing with this issue of insecurity? Or does it seem from the body language of the presidency that we have been left on our own? Well, for me, I just want to make it very clear. If the president or the presidency has said the president has done his best that this is the best he can offer, I think Naira Buhari has failed. And I can tell you clearly, this is not what Nigeria expected from a general. And when a general happens to be in charge and the country is sinking, that means he's a failed general. So I think at this point in time, what Naira Buhari should have done is to take it back, I said I'm going back to my village in Daurah, I can no longer lead, I can no longer defend the people of Nigeria because this is what I promised the people of Nigeria that is very clear today that the president has failed, the president does not have the capacity or the will or the idea to tackle the issue of insecurity in the country today. You can see clearly, how many moons down the drain will be able to make any progress on the cardinal train attack victims. Today, the insecurity in the country is the heights of impunity of the laziness of the military and the laziness of the government to fight and tackle these issues that we are suffering from. For example, even in Abuja, that is meant to be for your capital territory, Abuja is no longer safe. So I think this leads us that are shouting for the impeachment or removal of the president. For me, it's coming too late. They would have done this long time ago. This should have happened like two years ago. But they are worried and they are bothered right now because they are living in Abuja. They are not right now, anything can happen to any of them. So now that the battle has been taken to Abuja, they are not shouting. Nigerians have been yearning calling for help, calling for the national assembly, including Northern leaders have called on the national assembly before now to commence the impeachment process of the president. The national assembly ignored because we have a robust hand and have a lower voice in the Senate. But today, the battle has been taken to them in Abuja. The senators are now crying. How many months down the drain before this administration will be over? I can tell you clearly the issue of impeachment right now, they cannot have the numbers. You need to try to impeach the president from the both chambers. But as I speak, with this government that I know, very clearly they are going to fight back. This government does not care whether Nigerian people are dying. Every day they come out to tell us we are winning the war. Every day they will come out to tell us that Jirabuara has done better than any other government or the PDP government in the past. Remember, under President Jonathan, the insecurity was curtailed within the North East. But today, the 36th state in Nigeria is not safe anymore. Under the watch of a general who have all the ideas and the military background, I think Jirabuara should be stripped of the name called Genera because it is a failed Genera. Quickly. Nigeria today is the worst country. The worst. I do not necessarily agree with that because when you say Nigeria is the worst. I mean there are other states who are literally at war and we are not at war. We are facing serious insecurity challenges. What are we talking about? I don't think you can say that we are the worst. Let me tell you where the worst. I can tell you clearly in a country where you kidnap 100, 250 people every day kidnap in all parts of the country. In a country where people die every day in numbers. I wanted to ask for solutions but I think we lost you there. I want to ask you quickly because we are almost out of time. In 60 seconds because we have seen all the problems we have laid them out on the table and we have seen all the possible solutions. If the president is saying we have done our best, the national assembly is saying no, your best is not good enough. We are going to start an impeachment proceeding. If at the end of six weeks you are unable to deal with this issue but I am even wondering to myself is six weeks good enough time to deal with this issue if we were to deal with it. Quickly. My colleague in the studio and the president failed and I find that there is no other country in the world where the people would have tolerated the president to say another one hour. So the choice is in the hands of the girls to either go to Sri Lanka or wait for the president in three elections to boot out the party that has put in place to deal with it. But by the end of the day what we have done in the past is proper things to do in this circumstance is to sack all the service chiefs Why would the energy of everyone who keeps his job why should the government keep his job why should they do the proper but enough what we pushed for service chiefs to be changed what change took place right after changing the service chiefs so again if we keep sacking service chiefs what happens at the end of the day what's the essence there are young men we ready the army the police are ready to start this country if it means for you to fire spies in the trade in the chain of command for young officers and the military for general the problem with the war we are having is that there is lack of political means because of the part of government because if we see the attitude of government so what the police could do we have to go so what is happening it's quite sad but because we are not anywhere in the world we are the we are the person who has a political way to fire people we hire I think that one thing that the worry about is is a legacy of the electoral process into the judiciary I will give advice to you you should do everything you can so make sure that it starts with Isaac so make sure that the election is clear we have to go we are out of town we are out of time we have to go thank you so much it's of the civil society organization and of course Timmy Frank is a former publicities national publicities secretary of the all progressive congress and he is now obviously in some form of activism to fight for a better Nigeria I want to say thank you Mr Timmy Frank for being part of the conversation thank you so much and that's it on the show tonight ladies and gentlemen I hope you had a good time because tomorrow we will be back talking about the biggest stories in our political scene and of course we are talking always for development I'm Mary Anacorn have a good night