 Thank you all for being here and I appreciate it you both bring different all three of you bring different perspectives to this We're gonna start at the end here and work our way down And you know what I'd like to do is save time for questions is I forgot to ask is that okay? Is that okay to question? We're gonna do it anyway So that's just kind of how we roll so we're just gonna we're gonna have some questions We're gonna do a little Conversation up here and I really do want people to think about things that they might want to ask So we can make this more of a conversation Daryl Darnell on the end here Joins us from as a senior associate vice president at George Washington University Before that he was at the White House working as the director of critical infrastructure protection and resilience policy Was there even such a thing for when did that when did that come about you know? the name kind of changed a little bit with the change in administrations, but the Critical infrastructure protection was always a director within NSS, but the resilience piece was added to the protection Yes, yeah, it's interesting actually you can look at different countries and see When and whether the word resilience comes up like I think in the UK They have it sort of cabinet level office of resilience, right? That we needed to focus not just on protection issues, but also resilience issues and that was a way To sort of drive that point home Okay, and what were some of the and before that I should say you were you were the director of the city of DC's homeland security and emergency management agency so First talking in chronological order at the city level What what were some of the challenges the barriers to creating resilience? With regards to Homeland Security and emergency management. I think in Washington DC is unique because it's a city But it's also the city of the federal government. So that brings some unique challenges to bear But it's also a city of neighborhoods 600,000 person population But also a significant portion of the population as as Admiral Allen alluded to that has a significant social economic needs And when you talk about resilience, I've always talked about there has to be Responsibility from the individual the state local and all the way up to the federal level And if you're really creating resiliency at the local level, you really have to figure out where those social economic Situations where the government may have to do more but in rely on other people who have means to assist so that the government can Can have more of a an adequate response if you if you will And then also getting people to understand what those roles and responsibilities are one of the things that I did Was I created a blog in a website called 72 hours dot DC dot gov And it was really tried to get the public to understand that for that first 48 to 72 hours We're really going to need you to be able to take care of yourself while we really assess what the situation is Where we need to focus our priorities and those different types of things Guess what percentage of the DC population. Do you think it's prepared to be on their own for 72 hours? Not a lot I think it's one of those things where it's a constant At a operational level, it's a constant Excuse me constant communication level where you have to continually engage the public and what we tried to do through faith based Organizations through neighborhood watch organizations We sort of use the neighborhood watch as sort of a template in a model Something that was already established to go into the community and say we know your focus is really on ordinary crime But we'd also like you to try to focus on this and we'll give you the tools to help you do that So that's that's how we try to try to approach it But I also tried to take a look at some of the indicators. I'm big one, you know predictable surprises and those different types of things at the time I was in the district nearly 60 percent of District public school students were receiving some type of reduced lunch for those types of things So in my mind that portended that if the children are receiving Assistance and lunch probably their parents were at the poverty level or not much above it So to expect them to have the tools and those things to be prepared for some type of catastrophe was probably unrealistic So we spent a lot of time trying to educate that portion of the population And determining what they needed from us and then trying to provide that is there a specific example of something that you feel like You were able to put in place. Yeah, I think we were able to put in place Exercises for example with with the aging population So we work with the DC office of aging and what we tried to do was we tried to identify where people for example Could not get out on their own where they didn't have a car or for example where They may have been on some type of dialysis machine or something that required power And that really came in the play in the summer of 2009 when we lost power In the District of Columbia, so we already knew where a lot of those people were in the affected area So we were able to go in right away Make sure that their backup generators were working if they weren't working we supplied them with generators We supplied them with ice all those different types of things and that was really an outgrowth of working with the office of DC And aging knowing what those senior citizens were working with the face fake faith base groups because they know where the second shut in And they already have established mechanisms for getting to those people so we just leveraged what was already there Glad you brought that up because we actually do know a lot about who evacuates and who doesn't right before Disasters or after and we know that in New Orleans For example the number one predictor of who did not leave was age and that actually was also true after Three Mile Island So even in very different kinds of events You find that the elderly are the least likely to evacuate which the older I get I can understand Yeah, you know, I'm kind of like really I'm not gonna get in back of that station wagon with my kid and her kids and the dog For ten hours and sit in the traffic which reminds me one of the things I'm actually glad I have you here because one of the things I've always wondered is when I see those blue evacuation signs in DC I mean, I know this is a balance right you have to have evacuation routes You have to do that planning But there's one that goes right up through on Wisconsin Avenue through Georgetown I can't get up there on my car on a normal day No, that's a that's a very good question I mean, it's a dinner this identified as an evacuation route because it's a major North-South artery and we have plans in place to turn that in a contra flow and shut that traffic off So that the traffic would go out of the city Exactly And they would all be going out okay, all right, my plan is to use a bike for as long as I can and that's a good plan All right, I want to move next to Jason McNamara who is the chief of staff at FEMA. Thank you for being here Jason He spent over 15 years in emergency management Including among many other things stint on the staff of the House Select Committee on Homeland Security So coming at this from a federal point of view FEMA is a place that is widely misunderstood. I think it's fair to say and you know I have criticized FEMA in the past, but I've also come to realize that it is There's a disconnect between what people think it should do During a disaster and what people wanted to do before a disaster Can you talk a little bit about how? Do you think that's improved? Over the past few years that disconnect and you know What do you think are some of the ways to deal with the difference between? What we say we want our federal government to do and then what we actually expected to do when all hell breaks loose Well, it's a good question and it's and if you follow if you listen to what the Admiral said and actually what Darrell just said With respect to individuals communities and then as you take it up to states municipalities private sector organizations What you're what you've heard and hopefully what you've heard all day is there's some increased level of expectation of Those of you and those of us who can? Provide for ourselves who can take care of ourselves There's there's an increased expectation that you should do that now We can talk about that all day long and we have talked about that all day long In many different venues However, when something bad happens There is an extremely high expectation of Somebody to quote-unquote be in charge and somebody to fix everything In many cases that gets thrown at my agency The and We have to I don't think fight is the right word But it as you were saying in terms of we have to educate the public in the media about that disconnect Let me read you something that Craig said in testimony which follows on to all of this which is government cannon My boss and so I'm quoting my boss, which is always a safe thing to do Quick proof that but he's the administrator has been since the beginning of the Obama administration Government cannon will continue to serve disaster survivors. Okay, so there's the there's the recognition and the acceptance and the accountability that yes We are on tap to serve Government is on tap to try to help the population after disasters However, we fully recognize that a government-centric approach to disaster management will not be enough to meet the challenges posed by a catastrophic incident That is why we must fully engage our entire societal capacity capacity, I thought he said capability that's the kind of the The hub and the spoke that we're working with right now, which is We're going to be there and we're going to do everything we can to help the population after a disaster We've helped the impacted population after a disaster But there is a limit to the of the amount of things that we can do and that we can do more importantly the things we can do well Daryl had a great example there with respect to The DC department of aging aging. Okay, they know where these folks are they know what their needs are They know who the service providers are in the private sector in the nonprofit sector who work with these folks on a daily basis so as opposed to One way we are trying to be successful, and I think we can be successful is opposed to us creating mechanisms to serve that population Creating federal mechanisms to serve that population Is to leverage the resources of those folks who work with those folks every day when it's something I've called in Various for us kind of finding the experts you find the people who work with low-income populations elderly population disabled populations children Variety of quote-unquote special needs populations or or different needs populations probably a better way to put it That are much better at providing services to those folks than you could ever could be last example I'll give and this is outside the United States One of the things we do after disasters. We have to bring in logistics and you know stuff basically water food ice Cots blankets, whatever you whatever some of that stuff needs to be distributed on an individual basis The default government position on that is to create a brand new distribution system with with our own points of Distribution our own staging areas that type of thing That is probably exactly the wrong way to do it There are there are mechanisms in the community that exist already That are well known in terms of distributing goods and services and in Haiti where you saw and this was us The United States military trying to distribute goods you saw kind of the the failures there in terms of people going You know jumping up on helicopters or you know kind of fighting for the goods Meanwhile in a different part of the country where they used Established faith-based distribution mechanisms no problems at all no issues whatsoever and And the the goods and survey the goods and food and water got out to the people that needed to get out to them So we need to do a lot better job and this is what Craig has a spouse since the day he got to FEMA We knew we need to do a lot better job and using the community-based mechanisms that already exist to further our disaster response and recovery capabilities and if you could give our Administration a theme that's pretty much where we where Craig has been since the beginning So everything we do on a daily basis tries to reinforce that that thing So if I understand what you're saying a lot of this is about it's basically like you're all you're an agency full of fixers You know you need to have relationships with people and have trust built in with people before and you probably see variation, right? from place to place like you have FEMA Has you know Organizations all over the country and you probably have some people where they've got very networked very a lot of trust many years Relationships or so it's solid right and some places where that's not true Is there any pattern to that? Is there are there certain things that tend to corrode those networks in that trust? I think what you can say you can go back to what again go back to what Admiral Allen said about pre-existing societal conditions if you have an area where there is a history of racism or a history of economic disparity or a history of Injustice or perceived history of injustice you will you will run into many many more problems in the disaster response phase It it it basically it will bring those issues Those issues already do ahead it will bring it even to a higher head Be and the level of distrust will will just exponentially grow and Once you're once you're in that situation There's really not a heck of a lot you can do to get out of it. It becomes it's kind of self-perpetuating And so I guess what I would say is the pre-existing conditions particularly with particularly with respect to socioeconomic disparities become become They get a spotlight shined on them during a disaster situation the last thing I'll say about that is is one of the reasons we Spoused the kind of you know take care of yourself when you can Mantra is that We do see we really do see our role as taking care of the folks who can't take care of themselves Every time if you're an able-bodied if you're me you're an able-bodied Non-minority upper-income person You know I Have a responsibility to be able to take care of myself and my family for a certain amount of time I will tell you I am First an emergency manager. I I fail on that measure. I mean we're not I think we know where to go if there's a disaster But after that we haven't done much So so I am I am I am the example of what not to do I'm just gonna call Craig for a second He knows I'm having a baby during a hurricane season. I mean he teased laugh me out of his office on that one So if I if I do what I'm supposed to do Governments at all levels local state and federal can focus focus the resources on those populations who can't do that Who can't do that for themselves or will have trouble doing that for themselves for for a whole variety of reasons? And every time every one of me that exists is taking away help from right from someone else Yeah, I mean it almost sounds like we're headed in a very sort of leftist direction here Like what the best way to increase resilience would be to fight poverty Yes, and no, no, I you know, I mean if we knew sure if I our ways through Actually not necessarily let me let me say one thing if you got if you got the money and you don't care about the rest of society and you don't have networks and you Not plugged in and you don't and and then no it won't work But yeah, but it's also not just that it's also again Washington DC is a good example on any given day There may be 250 to 300 thousand tourists in this in the city So if we had a catastrophic incident along the lines of Katrina those people they're not going to be getting on any airplanes Or any trains home. They're not going to have anywhere to stay Maybe their hotel their hotel may be destroyed it may not be destroyed So they're going to need some type of assistance But they have means but they don't have the means at that particular moment the same thing with our college a students We have we have 10 colleges and universities here in Washington, DC where I'm at at George Washington University We have 25,000 students So again, if we have a catastrophic incident, I have to be able to take care of those 25,000 students So there are a lot of different things that come into play And I think the important thing is figuring out what it is and then developing those resiliency measures to deal with it Yeah, and I guess I have seen not a lot, but I have seen a few Small communities that have been around a long time at say in the Gulf Coast that we're we're low-income communities by any definition But we're quite resilient. Well, that's absolutely right. I mean here in Washington, DC and in Anacostia east of the river That's the poorest section of the city if any of you are familiar with the city here and the same thing Pock is a neighborhood is where they will tell you look we you know, we're resilient You know, we've been resilient in a lot of different ways And we can be resilient during a disaster during a terrarium terrorism incident You just need to tell us what to do and provide us some of the things that we don't have for example I've had people over there tell me we're not evacuating. We we were second third and fourth generation Washingtonians We're not leaving So tell us what we need to do to stay here And and you work with them they go through a cert training all those different types of things that we offer They know how to coordinate with us They participate in exercises and they do all of those different types of things and so, you know, Craig is you know His mention is I think Abra Allen mentioned in it down in Katrina There were areas where people say we're not leaving and that's no different here than what in Washington, DC Right, and you can fight that all you want, but you're not gonna win No Patrick I want to ask you to maybe Help us put this in some broader context Patrick Dougherty is deputy director of the national security studies program and the director of the smart strategy initiative here And you really I think if it's fair to say you think about sustainability as a national security issue Which is I think a good way to think about it So can you talk a little bit about what we've been kind of dabbling in here? You know my concern is that we're actually heading into Really an era in which the services of these two gentlemen is going to be called upon more frequently For higher degree incidents and events and that To the extent that we can predict that across a variety of different sectors those types of disruptive shocks To the American population to our lives and livelihoods. We should be able to We should we should be thinking today about how we design an even deeper level of resilience So what I wanted to do is just share kind of the top four I think threats that are facing us. I think have started to fuse into one As the systems folks call it a wicked problem That is going to be this that's going to be sending in our direction These higher frequency Disruptive events the first one is the major financial disruption that we all experienced in 2008 Which is now created a moment which we call a deleveraging right? We're in the midst of this credit Bubble bursting But it's a deleveraging. It's a 10-year process of winding down our debt and in the meantime our economic Growth is going to be suppressed. That's going to be eating away at our social fabric It's going to be eating away at the resources of our families of our corporations of our governments To be able to respond to these types of things So we're in that moment of deleveraging the second piece is this global Trend that I call economic conclusion. We're bringing three billion people into the global middle class in 20 years according to Research that we released with the McKinsey global Institute When those people come into the into the into the global middle class their incomes go up 300% and Their resource consumption goes up 300% and we're already seeing this an increased commodity prices so what's what and in One great example of how that affects the American people is What triggered that financial crisis you had a simultaneous resetting of loans and a doubling of the price of gas? as commodity prices go up again our families Take the Bear the brunt if you're already in the midst of deleveraging. We're weakening that underpinning The third piece is ecological pollution Whether it's the dynamic of climate change or the lack of ecosystem services, whether it's flood control or Stronger hurricanes or more frequent hurricanes. We're going to be hitting. We're gonna be getting more and more disruptive weather events whether it's the Joplin tornadoes or Hundred-year floods coming every five years We're going to be seeing those types of Whether events crazy weather patterns heatwaves those types of things We're gonna be having that come at us more free more frequently as well on top of these other things Thanks And then the third piece is really Just this overall pattern what I call the resilience deficit It's everything that we're talking about today that we're just not investing in our systems our supply chains our structures Our infrastructure If you look at what the American Society of Civil Engineers says we need to invest in our domestic infrastructure to get us up to Zero it's two point two trillion dollars How are we going to get how we can get that level of funding in the midst of the of a deleveraging in midst of these deficit problems? So what I'm saying is that these four problems have functionally fused if you're if you're the president of the United States You want to solve one of them you you effectively have to solve for all all four and that is creating This problem that's gonna this problem is is is a low is a slow speed high mass event That's already upon us. It's not it's not like a one of vice president Dick Cheney's Low likelihood high magnitude events. This is upon us all right all four of these are upon us already They're slow moving and so it's harder to see them But they're functionally fused and the way we're experiencing them is through their symptoms through the shocks shocks and disruptive events They're coming at us and so what I was I just want to kind of raise that awareness out there that that's the that's the strategic environment Which we're facing and it gets into Kind of the the strategy of great powers as those commodity prices move north Especially around energy and water strategic behavior follows and armies and the aircraft carriers go with them So this this type of behavior this these patterns are going to have a full spectrum of Consequences for the United States and and I'd argue that they're actually not amenable to What we normally think about economic policy with monetary policy and fiscal policy and they're not amenable to military strength. We can't We can't militarily defeat climate change Or we can't stop Three billion people from coming in a global class And so what we're going to need to do is think about how our systems and structures and infrastructure is designed And to address this world that we're coming into now a good news is And I'll stop here is that there's there's actually Incredible pools of pent up demand what we're experiencing is a system misfit that we've had we've been running a Sentient economic system that was designed to help the United States go through the Cold War Sentient economic system that we never re-evaluated after the end of the end of the Cold War and as a result There's massive pools of pent up demand in the system that Beep that the what people want has dramatically changed and we've got Whether it's demand for housing we all know that demand for housing in the suburban fringe is really low But what we don't know is that the National Association Realtors is saying 56% of Americans want a home in a smaller home in a Rockable service-rich transitorian community which are fundamentally more economically Ecologically sustainable, but they're also much easier to provide emergency services to if you're out in the in the vast distributed suburbs it's really hard to get emergency services out to that distributed population and Especially when they're all cul-de-sacs you can't get an emergency you you got it's really hard if you've got one tree down across a key Contributing a street. There's hard to get out to that cul-de-sac In time to save lives and reduce suffering So you're saying about half the people want to live in cities But don't they already? Half the people want to live in a community in in a house that they don't already live in that is smaller That is in a walkable community. Okay, and that community is service-rich. It's got the restaurants the schools the healthcare that they want and it's the And transit oriented and the dynamic is that baby boomers are downsizing retiring And they want to some of them are retiring some of them are gonna have to continue working longer And they and they don't want to do the 200 hour a year commute anymore And they want to they don't want to get locked. They want to get stuck out out in the suburbs without a Driver's license for the keys to their car Meanwhile the millennial generation their kids 77% of them just don't want to go back ever to the isolated suburbs they're just too too static And and isolating they just don't want to go back So they're gonna make inner cities and and first ring suburbs that have much better infrastructure work again So that's really great, but in its incredible pool of demand That's pent up because we're still subsidizing this old suburban model, which is really hard to secure And and make less vulnerable to disruptive events. Okay, so that's your good news. Is that that's probably the good news Okay, nothing else. The good news is that that is the flip side of bringing three billion people into the Into the global middle class That's an incredible new pool of customers of clients And and could raise wages could raise wages over there, which would could raise wages over here China has raised right I mean the programmers the cost of a programmer per hour in the DC area went way down And has now started going back up as as the cost of programmers in India has started going exactly and the the interesting thing About this is that if you can reduce if you can the problem is that as they come in and we continue business as usual With the resource level of resource intensity of the American or average and global economy or unit of GDP We can't do it, but if the United States says hey look, we're gonna take this opportunity to lead a revolution and resource productivity and to draw and to be that Harness the inventiveness of the American people at the same time. We're reinventing our communities to be more sustainable more resilient We have a global demand piece that's driving exports and improving improving economic Outlook in the United States at the same time. We're building a new American dream. That's fundamentally more resilient So we've got this interesting read this interesting moment where we've got these macro challenges and some macro solutions, but because I think of the dynamic of crises and within our public sphere, we're all always focused on This the next crisis and and the challenge is going to be how do we look at the at this bigger picture? We're in an interesting time because this is one of those periods of national conversation I don't know if we're gonna get there doesn't look that good based on the other Republican primaries But we've got another moment where we're the at least all the party always almost all the candidates are talking about big problems The question is can we get to the to the big solution? Okay? All right speaking of big solutions I'm relying on the audience to come up with some. I'd like to take at least one or two questions. Marie's got a microphone here So we've got a hand behind you and a few here. So why don't you go right here and start there? Hi, Jamie you all again. I also work for state government and One of the things that I found in my job is the challenge of institutionalizing sustainability systems thinking resilience thinking into the short-term Thinking of politics and policy and with the panel that we have up here I was hoping that you could address some of your ideas of how we institutionalize long-term thinking precautionary approaches in Government whether it's at the state local or federal level to address these challenges because that's the only way we're gonna be able to You know, I think you first of all I think we understand we have to understand the politics plays important and a huge role in what we do and Depending on the political party in power everyone has their different priorities and those different types of things I think you have to accept that fact as reality. First of all, then I think secondly I think it's determining what your priorities are because as much as Patrick says these are interconnected systems and things like that The reality is particularly in economic economic times that we live in we're not going to be able to do everything And so I think we have to figure out what our priorities priorities are Prioritize them and then you know focus on those priorities. It may be one or two things. It may be three things You know, whatever it is and focus on that and not think that you know for lack of a better phrase that you're going to be able to change the world because You're not and that's just from my own personal experience at working at all levels of government at the federal state and local and now In the private sector and so I think if you if you do that I think you you tend you chances are you'll be more successful It depends I mean it depends if what you're if you if you're talking about individual goals and objectives Yeah, it is. All right, so what can you do in two to four years? But what we You know what I hope we will do is Be able to put in place as you know systems That you know last much longer than that and it kind of become institutionalized I mean the whole goal here of what I've talked about what Craig talks about all the time is being a Being able to show that this approach to my profession to emergency management is the successful approach It is the way to do it and that resiliency as a concept means what we have been talking about and that Frankly, the only way we get that done and this has been demonstrated is to succeed. So if we have our Katrina this year Please no I can deal with a fairly large target, but not a giant one If we have that and we and we attack it with the same the principles that I kind of outlined today and we succeed Yes, I think we can make changes for the long term The question is really about being able to budget over a longer term time horizon and be able to make trades on investments today that will provide a longer term reduction in costs both budgetary costs and human and civilian costs You want to go to the gentleman next to you Murray? Mike McDonald global health initiatives, so I'm wondering what would it take to develop a national sustainable security infrastructure Initiative that would address some of these at the top level Policy, but that would actually go all the way down into the neighborhoods building Neighborhood resilience networks that have all the fundamental Networking capability that you would like to build in FEMA is already doing this for example in San Francisco supporting it At a theoretical level, but there's no real resources to build this kind of thing So how do we enable a broader whole society approach to get the investment? That's necessary combined with some of the leadership from government Well, who is there anybody here from New America that has money that I can talk to now actually and well That's kind of a little bit off the cuff. It's not too far off the cuff I mean there this is not if if you believe what I said and you believe in the principle that was just Articulated then it is a responsibility. Yes, is it partially our responsibility to fund and kind of seed these types of efforts? Yes, it is and I think you know, we're starting to do that But I think it's kind of a more distributed responsibility where you have a number of folks that need using as you said our guidance our ideas our principles to to Take that and run with it In a number of parts of the country and there actually we've talked to a number of foundations Who once if we can get it going if we can seed that that they would be willing to kind of take up the cause for us? So I mean the federal government really can't do that in this kind of we spent an enormous money I mean don't you think the locals aren't going to trust the federal government to do that? I mean Sometimes they do I mean I hate to say it but that that's that's definitely there's certainly that's a part of it But I also think it's a culture and I think this administration, you know with Craig They've done an excellent job in trying to do that The presidential policy directive 8 that talks about national preparedness in the first paragraph It talks about this being a system-wide Responsibility at the federal state local and private sector and the individual level that's never been in presidential doctrine before This was the first time but I think it's also An awareness issue and a communication issue to the public and I liken it to to the no smoking campaign It took 35 40 years before we changed the culture that smoking was not a good thing from a public public health policy standpoint in a societal standpoint, you know now, you know people take it almost for granted You know that the vast majority of Americans don't smoke well That was a 40-year education campaign to do that and I liken this as the same way if we're really serious about Resilience, it's going to take something that takes over time is which is why you see programs that are geared towards school kids children school-age children similar to what we did with, you know Smokey the bear as well as my good friend Mike burn used to tell me said I grew up in Brooklyn And we didn't have trees, but I knew who smokey the bear was You know, so I think it's the same type of issue where we just have to constantly continually and constantly push that message Creatively too, right? I mean I think one one asset that I think we have is Unfortunately millions of experts in evacuation in this country and there are places in this country that are used to evacuating They know how to do it. Well, they know what to bring what to not bring And I don't I feel like we could do a better job telling their stories and really highlighting resilient communities as in a storytelling fashion, right as a model Absolutely nothing females tried to do that with some some programs that they've had where they've taken a look at for example the Lakeview neighborhood in New Orleans after after Katrina which said you know what we're not going to wait on the federal government You know if the federal government is going to give us help We're going to take it but we're going to take the bull by the horns if you will and we're going to start this process And we're not going to wait and there are examples of that around the country and around the world I mean Joplin has come up before Joplin We're happy to help Joplin in any way we could and we did they didn't need much help they really didn't they Between the private sector the local government the the school superintendent that Adam Allen talked about and frankly the state government Who had done a lot in terms of preparedness and had built agreements across borders with other folks? I mean we came in there We did it we frankly did our normal post disaster recovery programs, which are very much check-based and very much cash cash But in terms of the response in terms of the immediate life-saving and life-sustaining capabilities Vast majority of that was done by the local and state government, which is how it should work It's exactly how it should work I think the lesson or the the case that really worked well that we should be Learning from is the Interstate Highway and Defense Act and what it was was it was a it was a package that was more about jobs and about extending the suburban economic boom and The interests of Detroit and the interests of creating a unified market and that also had requirements for being able to land heavy bombers and supply aircraft Every few miles along it being able to move our missile systems under 14 foot bridges And we were able to put the the requirements that we needed to Meet the challenge of civil defense and the in the Cold War on top of this fundamental infrastructure that opened up an incredible new market And so I think that's that's where I would focus the effort if you've got really 56% of demand out there for For something which is three times the amount of demand originally for housing after World War two is to put it in scale Figure out what the Interstate Interstate Highway and Defense Act is Interstate Highway and Resilience Act call it and frame it in that way and have it be about jobs and market opportunity not having it about Resilience because it was this is important But it's not like I'm gonna go out and buy the latest form the Resilience 4s out there and at the Apple Store. It's what you want to do is is is I would totally By the way Look, thank you gentlemen for being here. I very much appreciated. Thank you for the questions