 My name is David Lattimer. I'm a security consultant at Bishop box. This is our part, managing partner, Fran Brown. We, our talk is obviously on drone defense. We want to take it. We just had a little technical difficulty setting up everything. You know how demo gods, they're not nice. This is my first Defcon presentation. This is his fifth. I think they'll come in a minute here. You really want to mess with the guy with the microphone? Because I'll win. Goons, any shots? Okay. Yeah, that's a song. Okay, cool. Welcome everybody to Game of Drones. My name is Fran Brown. I'm a partner at Bishop box. It's a cyber security consulting firm. Helps companies secure their networks and applications. Sorry for the delay. It's a good thing I have every install I've ever downloaded and could install VLC player real quick and a few things on this system to get it running. We'll go ahead and get started though. It's an interesting setup. I have to kind of manage this extended mode with the monitor all the way down there. Okay, I got a lot I want to cover today. I know we're running a little late already. But basically I'm going to get started with a quick overview of the danger drone. One, because it's cool too, because we're going to give one away to somebody in here. Yeah. Yeah. You can handle it. And then I very quickly want to move beyond that and get into some of the drone defense products and the whole industry of drone defense products and some of the stuff we were able to do in terms of testing out these fun products. And then I'll do a little bit of overview of some of the legal landscape and some things that are happening and wrap up with what the future looks like, which is scary and kind of crazy. Okay. So before I even get into the danger drone, I want to talk a little bit about drones. Why do we do this talk? Why is this important? What are we going for here? There's basically a couple angles at this, but for the most part, when our customers come to us and they say, hey Fran, what do I need to know about drones? Or do I need what I need to be looking into for drone services or drone defenses or products? Or is this something I need to do? I want to have good answers for them. And not only that, but I want to provide a resource with this talk and the research to have answers for people as they ask that. Because if you Google for drone defenses right now, you're going to get eight gajillion hits, which is basically all marketing material. And a lot of it is a complete sham. So it actually put out a real resource that you can look at and actually get some real answers when it comes to drone defenses. How many people here have paid for drone defenses or are going to pay for drone defenses in the next year with their company or their organization? Like three people. What are you guys doing this talk there? I don't know. Yeah. If it's not a problem that we will be soon, I promise. Yeah. Who's worried about for your house or your kids or something like that or a few more? Cool. So yeah, so I basically started seeing a lot of crazy articles and I had to kind of like peek at them after a while. You see, you know, popping over Mashable. You see these eagles that are plucking drones out of the sky and these guys with these huge like bazookas and jammer devices. And I just found myself asking, I saw the eagles and I was like, I bet I could beat those eagles. How hard would it be to beat an eagle with a drone and technology and bring nature to a science fight? Does anyone really test them to see if they work? So that's kind of how it started and I started looking into it a little bit more and the more I kept peeling back the onion, the more I realized that this industry for the most part is, to say it's in its infancy is an understatement. To say most of it is a complete shame in terms of what's out there is probably a little more accurate. But to say it's also very necessary right now would also be true. So it's going to be important to be able to cut through that stuff. Alright. Introduction of the Danger Drone. So welcome to the Danger Drone. You see at the bottom there, there's a URL, the tiny URL. If you go to that, you can submit to enter in to be the person that wins the raffle and we will wrap it up and ship it for you. A few people brought up, you know, I might not want to be, have to carry this back through the airport and stuff like that so we figured this would be an easier way to do it. Was anyone go to my talk a few years ago with the RFID, the TaskDoc RFID circuit boards? I gave those out live. That was a pretty crazy experience. I think like five people got killed in the crowd trying to get one of those circuit boards. Somebody gave birth. It was like people were knocking each other over. It was insanity. So to make it a little more reasonable, you go to that URL and we'll ship it to whoever wins. So quick with the Danger Drone. Basically, the long story of the Danger Drone is we created that to be able to test out these drone defensive products. We're going to be able to do penetration test or product evaluations of people who are selling drone defense products. And there wasn't really anything to do that. I always kind of looked at it as, you know, would you buy a smoke detector if you had no way of knowing that it would ever detect a fire? You need the ability to test these things out. So that was kind of the origin of the Danger Drone. And essentially it is just a pentesting quadcopter. It's a hacker laptop that can fly. It's a Raspberry Pi based quadcopter. So anything you can install on a Raspberry Pi which you can run full Kali Linux on a Raspberry Pi and it also flies for doing penetration tests. And it has the ability to extend it to do whatever you want to do in terms of wireless, Bluetooth, ZigBee hacking. We have custom shelving so you can put your different ones. Yeah, created a custom shelve. And most quadcopters have the, you know, for the two shelves, one for the battery and one for the flight controller. We added a third one for your Wi-Fi pineapple or whatever you want to add in there to your quadcopter. And here is a number of things you can plug in. Plenty of open USB ports on it. That's a Raspberry Pi. Do software to find radios, Wi-Fi pineapple, stuff like that. Different payloads you can stick on out there. So we'll see you this first year. All right, we are having problems with the audio earlier. So hopefully we have proper sound here. Okay, my Logitech wireless mouse is awesome. What I need now is another cup of coffee. Can't hear it. Here we go. Are we going to restart this? Hit pause. Hold on. Oh, no, hold on. I'll have to go back. Are you guys ready for this? Especially in some hell, yeah. Just be able to hit pause. Okay, so what we're about to see here is just a quick demonstration of what you would use the Danger Drone 4, basically to simulate any kind of PEM test, especially over there. And in this case, we're going to use it to hack a vulnerable wireless mouse to, you know, do a drive-by outside a window and hijack somebody's computer. We nailed this like in two takes. Oh man, my Logitech wireless mouse is awesome. What I need now is another cup of coffee. I'd like to submission for the Oscar for... TLDR, throw away all your wireless mice and keyboards when you get home. Yeah, so it's a pretty easy demonstration of what's possible. You can basically hook up anything you want to do. That was a crazy radio hooked up to that, but you can hook up a Wi-Fi pound up or anything like that and just do drive-bys and hijack people's networks and systems with the Danger Drone. So go ahead to that URL again. If you want to try to get one for free. This is sort of parts and pieces. Most of this airframe can be 3D printed. We have all that up on our thingiverse. If you Google Drone's penetration testers, that was our project last year. Yep, the bulk of it could be 3D printed, including the custom shelf. It is basically a modified Earl Brain 3, which is, these guys are great. They're from Spain. They basically build a Raspberry Pi-based quadcopter that they could fly, and we just added the ability to hack to it. You could build it yourself. It's even a little bit cheaper now, but under 500 bucks total for all the major components that you would need. About 370 last time I checked. We'll be updating the website with a new image and things like that later today, but already up there is the parts list and links to Amazon stuff that you can do to get it. It's all up on our website right now. If you go to dangerousroom.io or bishopbox.com, you should be able to find it. And lastly, it's just been great. This has been good for testing drone defensive products and evaluating them, but it's also, in general, if you're doing penetration tests, kind of the advent of the Internet of Things is that everything is talking over the air now. And having a drone that can hack is kind of the ideal platform for hacking stuff over the air without consequence. So it's been kind of nice to have this capability now. And with there being more targets than ever in terms of, you know, hacking Zigby, hacking Wi-Fi or Bluetooth or you name it. Cool. Cool. So that's the danger zone. On to things in the news. Yeah. So leading up to this talk, everyone I ever met has sent me every article about drone stuff that they've ever seen and it's been awesome. So thank you everyone for sending me. Did you see this? The article? Did you see this? And it's been crazy. The news has been great for this talk in the last couple of weeks alone because of illustrating what we're going for here. So three that I just wanted to point out in particular to kind of illustrate of where things are at in the industry. Did you guys see this? We call that overkill. Yeah. Can you just picture those guys doing it like, go ahead, do it, man. Go ahead. Use the $3 million predator missile or Patriot missile to take out the $200 quadcopter. I wonder if it was a danger drone. I don't know for sure. They took it out. But yeah, it kind of illustrates that. And what I would kind of an assurance is that this is a problem that isn't new. It's just new to most people trying to deal with air-based threats. People in the military are like, oh, yeah, defending yourself against threats from the area. Like we've been doing that for a while, man. Maybe you've seen Top Gun or anything before that. But it's just a new problem for a lot of people, for corporations, for people in their homes having the ability to find need to defend against it now. But it shows that the military also kind of needs to, they can take out, I think most quadcopters go at about 40 to 50 miles an hour. And I think Patriot missile goes at like Mach 3. So they can handle these problems, but it's not really scalable. And they're going to need to adapt as well as the threat continues to adapt. You see on the right there as well, it's one of the pictures of what they call like a flying IED. People are just strapping grenades to quadcopters to drop them off for suicide missions, stuff like that. So as the threats continue to evolve from an military standpoint, so will the defenses need to as well. This is awesome, by the way. I don't know if you guys have seen this, but a couple weeks ago, some guy escaped from prison with a drone dropped off some wire cutters over the prison yard to him. And they ended up catching him a couple states over. But he was able to break out of prison because the drone dropped off some wire snippers to him. In terms of illustrating the threat, prisons have been one of the people leading the way in terms of needing to adopt drone-based defenses. But thus far, it's been primarily people dropping in weapons or drugs or things like that. I think this is the first actual prison escape based on things that were dropped in with the drone. But it kind of shows the escalating nature of the threat. Big problem for anyone who runs a prison. Yeah, this is a nightmare. All right, so I don't know if you guys heard about this. You all know the wildfire is going on in California. There's some raging in Arizona. This guy got arrested for flying a drone near a fire to videotape and documented. But he was impeding 17 different aircrafts for firefighting aircrafts that were trying to drop flamethrower and got himself arrested. And he's going to be one of the first ones charged under the drone wall. Yeah, look at this guy's face. This guy is the face of the new threat. Look at that mugshot. This is a 54-year-old guy that I thought it would make for cool YouTube videos. He was circling his quadcopter around helicopters of firefighters and emergency responders, putting their lives in immediate danger. And he was posting it up on YouTube as he was doing it. And it essentially showed the lack of ability to defend against these things. What they had to do was they were like, all of our lives are in danger. We have no way of dealing with this guy with his quadcopter. We just got to let the fire burn and go home. He wants the situation, let it burn. Let's go home until he goes home, which obviously isn't going to last going forward. They don't need the ability to defend against things like that. So, since we've clearly demonstrated that they need for this market, obviously, people, there's all different types of industries that are going to need drone defenses. Let's go on to the drone defense market. It's injuring 14 different aircraft. 14. Substantial risk of imminent death and injury to firefighters because he thought it would be a cool YouTube video with his new quadcopter. All right. Cool. So that kind of leading the way into the drone defense market. This is... I got to tell you, I've had the pleasure of doing some pretty exciting research in my time and pretty fun stuff. This has probably been one of the funnest and probably also one of the most ridiculous one point somebody in our company was like, what can we do with this? Let's be realistic here. Like, realistic went out the window a long time ago, man. Like, we're getting falcons that go after eagles going after drones and, you know, air-to-air combat going on. Like, I don't know where realistic fits in. But just to give you kind of a breakdown of what the different products are that people are pushing out there right now is basically air-to-air and ground-to-air for the most part. Most are net-based. You have people who are shooting nets up at drones from the ground or, you know, drones themselves either with big nets or shooting nets at other drones. You have predator birds plucking drones out of the sky as well as lasers, which are pretty fun. They run about, like, $11 million a pop though, so we didn't get access to one of those. Yeah. But so, oh, this is what I was seeing in the news. One article I had to know, I was like, I gotta look into this. This is crazy. A couple of popular examples that you might see. Yeah, a little first-person view of the eagle coming in with a vengeance. In the middle of the top there, I sent that to every single person I know saying, for Christmas this year, I want one of these guys. Yeah, nobody. We found out they cost about $80 grand a pop and everyone was like, we don't love you that much. You're not gonna get one of these for Christmas. You see some dog fighting going on there. It looks like Top Gun. You know, they're getting good missile tone and shooting a net at another drone. We'll see here. We actually got the test out in the desert. Kind of one of these guys in the bottom left, which is a faster, bigger drone. This has a big net dangling from it that it comes and sweeps up your drone in the sky. Pretty simple solution, right? And you got some one of those bazooka jammers there, as well as another one shooting a net and then actually capturing it on the bottom right there. So where this is right now, basically 2017 was the year of the drone, both consumer-wise and business-wise. People are adopting drones. It went from that weird RC toy store in the bottom corner of the mall to you can get them at the Grab Isle and CVS in Walgreens now. That's kind of like the transition of things going mainstream. And with that as well, people are predicting that by 2022 that the drone defense product industry is going to be a billion-dollar industry as well. So everyone is trying to get in on this right now. We did research, and you're not meant to see this, but just give you the overwhelming, all the slides will be available for download as well, but there was 86 different products that we looked at that were drone defensive products in some way, from the Patriot Missile to lasers to the net bazookas to the big flying, swooping nets. And depending on one of the interesting things is if you read a top 10 drone defense products report that you could buy out there or somebody put together a top five, they're all different. You might get a different 10 depending on which report you read, which is weird, right? If you read a top 10 lifehacker's top 10, whatever, software for doing your taxes, most of them will be the same depending on what you're looking at, right? Like this was all over the board. There is no Pepsi or Coke when it comes to drone defensive products right now, and you have a whole crowd of people that want access to that billion dollars coming up. It really just depends on your situation. And what this has led to is making it extremely hard for security professionals to get any straight answers whatsoever. So this is just anybody here from Department 13, as they're now, I should preface this, you're not going to like the slides or maybe not put your hand up, but this is kind of a perfect illustrative example of what has occurred due to all this money coming up. Everyone want to get in on this. This PDF isn't up anymore, but it's on the way back machine, you can access to it. They put themselves, they did a little matrix of some of the different drone defensive products up there, and you can see they put themself in the top right quadrant above, like Lockheed Martin and Boeing and who have million-hour lasers to shoot down like migs. So they're all the way up in the top right. This was on the 4th of July in 2016. They didn't even have a V1.0 product to sell until six months later. They had nothing except marketing material and they had a lot of really slick marketing material. I mean, I'm reading like New York Times articles, I'm reading Reuters articles, you would think all these things are real. Oh yeah, I've read about that and I saw it here and it gives it the appearance of legitimacy. Most people don't even have a product to sell, but based on the amount of money they've already funneled into marketing, you think they've been throwing version eight of their product, version nine is coming out next month and they don't have anything to sell you. And I had money, I wanted to buy some of these products and it was difficult to do it. I always get emails back from their CEO saying we can't sell it to you. I think they're running at it like a house. Here's a perfect example of great marketing material that doesn't really make sense. Same company. This one that wasn't even out yet, it was how do they take down drones? They mesmerize them. And the product is mesmer. And it's magic. What it actually does to take a drone out of the sky? I have no idea. No idea whatsoever. Other than it mesmerizes it. So I strongly suspect that maybe I can only imagine what it's actually doing. Maybe they didn't even decide what it's going to do yet so they just put some ones and zeros. We're going to go into some of these now, but you guys haven't had a chance to check it out yet. We went out to the desert with a lot of these products. Got a lot of sunburn. It was 110 degrees out in Arizona with a lot of really cool drone defensive products and wire did an exclusive and there's some video up on there where you can check out some of the exclusive video of us testing out a lot of these products. Cool. I don't want to spend too much time on the detection mechanisms because the drone defensive products kind of break down into detection and then the more interesting response. There's a lot of people in the detection game, whether it's just radar or acoustic or all kinds of fun stuff coming out just to be able to tell you that hey, there's a drone in your sky outside your building or near you. One of the more popular ones is de-drone and a lot of, you're starting to see a lot of collapsing of people who are implementing response products are starting to partner up with companies like de-drone to you spot that there's a drone there first and then our ego will come in and swoop it out of the sky. It's a joint partnership. A couple of those. Interesting use case with this, the drone shield is we're seeing one of the early adopters of these drone defensive products was when they were filming the new Star Wars movies, the first one of the new batch and people were releasing footage of scenes before the movie came out because they were flying over the sets and getting a video footage of it. So people asked me, how do we prevent these drones from getting any spoiler alerts on what's going on with Han Solo because you haven't seen yet, I won't say. But yeah, so it's a real problem and a real threat. And a few more airports are adopting them. Although I talked to somebody at the Denver airport and nobody seemed to know what I was talking about with this. Denver airports implementing airfence to be able to track, you know, they're piloting this. Nobody there seemed to know what the heck I was talking about. So I don't know if it's real or not. Predator birds. Okay, so now we're getting into the fun stuff. So that was just detection mechanisms. So drone defensive products for a response. You've detected a rogue drone in your vicinity, what are you going to do now? So if you've read any articles about, you know, Dutch police have implemented eagles to defend against drones or the French military has done this. It's all one company. It's all one company that does all this. Every article you've read, it's all one company. Guards from above. How much do you think one eagle costs? Guesses? Right there. How much do you think one eagle costs? Fifteen K. Fifteen K. Hundred K. Hundred K. Two million. Three million. What is the prices right? Two low. One dollar. Okay. Anymore? Seventy five thousand? Ten million. What kind of eagles do you think they got, man? Like crap gold or anything? Yeah. So I was able to get access to, and just getting access to the prices on this stuff, this is all kept close to the vest. We'll be putting out the kind of research, but I was digging to get prices on these kind of products. And one of the things I took away from this research is there's no idea what to charge for drone defensive products. They're just throwing it out there. That's going to be $40,000? You know, like, I'll see how you flinch or not. It is, well, same competing products, one might be five grand and one might be 95 grand to do the same exact thing. But in this particular case, the initial cost for one eagle was $156,000. For one eagle, they live 80 years, but they're only mission capable for 40 years. When you do it with the other 40 years, they'll be your best friend. And it's another seven grand a year on top of that for maintenance and food and stuff like that. Yeah. So quite an investment. So I don't know who they're selling to. If they're selling to the crowd that are wasting $3 million of missile on a quadcopter, maybe they're like, this is a bargain. We should go for this. I don't know. Yeah. We did, you want to tell them about going out with the falcon? Yeah. So we actually tried this to try to do this in Arizona. We tried to get, there's only one group that does like falconry, Arizona falconers. There's only 14 in the entire... You want to know anything about falconry or eagles or the market. Two people over here could tell you anything and everything you ever wanted to know about falcons and falconry. Because of the animal protection laws in Britain and the UK, places in Europe they don't really care if you want to own a falcon. This will never fly in the United States. If you're rehabilitating it, it's pun for the whole family. You can't use it for any commercial purpose. So unfortunately, it was a no-go for the test video, but we tried. We did get to see one falcon and they were going to try to help us out and it just stood there. It's like, I don't feel like it today. Yeah. So in terms of security, I think WC feels like I never want to work with animals or kids because you never know what they're going to do. I'm kind of tired today. I'm not going to block stuff. Not exactly a reliable, repeatable solution. Now, with all this, this is hypothetical. It's hypothetical. All I'm saying is I think I could beat an eagle or a falcon. There are countermeasures. Now, if we had gotten access to one, I was going to do, so you'll see the kind of counter to these. What are the weaknesses in these different approaches and at least as I see them and how we try to exploit them. So I would have went for the carrot instead of the stick. I would have went for bacon wrapped, mice countermeasures. I'm almost positive that it would have went for the food instead of my drone if I dropped it off. I don't know. Automatic identification and response would not be that difficult given what's out there right now. Hypothetical. Okay, drone shooting. Again, next Christmas, if anybody wants to get me one, these things look awesome. I don't know if they work as well as they do, but these things run about 70 to 80 grand. They're one of the more popular cannon launched nets with heat seeking and it even deploys a parachute so it doesn't actually break the drone. So you're going to see different models, right? You're going to see the slow motion, flashlight kind of form factor to shoot down drones which may be a little more realistic for one thing I want to point out, there is no best drone solution, right? In doing this, you're going to have to look at your scenario. In terms of a drone defensive solution who's trying to guard a prison yard versus people who are trying to protect a movie studio or a set versus someone that's trying to protect a celebrity from paparazzi drones. They're going to have different needs and different use cases that will necessitate different solutions. You might not have access to different kinds of the prison warden might have access to more options than a normal person. This flashlight is pretty handy for if you look at the different kind of breakdowns you have a prison yard is something that is a fixed location you want to defend that's permanent, right? The Star Wars film set is a fixed location that isn't permanent. It's not going to be there forever. If you are guarding Kendra and if you've ever seen that, I'm going to bust it out. Kendra, the TV show, you guys know what I'm talking about. And when you have drones in your yard if you're defending a celebrity that's mobile and isn't a fixed location having a little flashlight that you can shoot out is an ideal solution. Yeah. So, how can I beat these things, right? So I started looking at it. You got these $80,000 net cannons. You have $100,000 fighter drones that shoot nets at you. Most of these defense solutions are net based and most of them are really light nets because they've got to carry themselves and it's got to shoot them. So they rely not on the weight of the net getting caught up in your motors. Most of these defenses, these tens of thousands of dollars defenses to be able to take down your drone. So I thought, can I beat some of these, the flashlight ones are like six, 700 bucks. Some of the other ones are like, you know, 20, 30 grand. Can I beat it with about $15 worth of chicken wire? And the answer is yes, we're good. So, counter measures, yeah. Can we get around 10 minutes left? We'll do some videos here. So, this one I think we're testing out the net gun counterfeiter countermeasure. This is Fran Brown from Vicious Box and we're testing a net gun of the flashlight variety versus a drone that we've hardened with sycamore. So, I think it's time to appreciate how good of a shot this is. Boom. That's the flashlight based model. That's about 20 feet. So far, since they go 45 feet, didn't do a thing. See, most net based projectile drone defense weapons need to be light to get further. So, the weight itself won't weigh down the drone. They rely on getting caught up in the motors to make the drone crash. Just some simple like $20 chicken wire bubble around this was enough to prevent the net from falling into the motors and allow us to still be able to fly just fine. So, $10 chicken wire and zip ties, effective drone defense. That I wrapped around it and stopped it. We defeated your $80,000 net gun. I know we're running short on time so just in case I don't get to it, I was talking to one of the other air-to-air based net people who sell products and I was explaining how I was going to use the chicken wire. What kind of test are you running? We have the prototype, maybe we can send it to you and get it going. I explained what I was going to do and they're like, oh, maybe I don't think we can. There we go. That's one. So there's plenty of net guns out there and people are releasing do-it-yourself ones but those flashlight ones go about for 500, 600, 700 bucks in some cases. Now, I will say we have one demo for this guy. Have any of you guys seen these shotgun shells with nets in them? These worked way better than I thought they were going to work and the cheapest at anything we tested. They were the only net-based thing that we tested that actually beat my chicken wire cage because it's basically still shooting even as a net, it's basically shooting metal out of a shotgun at stuff. Punch the hole right through the net. First, we're going to go ahead and try the Skynet shotgun shells which are 12-gauge shotgun shells that have deployed a net specifically to try to take down drones. The Skynet shotgun shells are one of the simpler drone defense options available. Just $20 for three and they can be fired with an additional shotgun. The difference, of course, is the netting which wraps around the drone's propellers to take it down. The Skynets were extremely effective with the cheapest out of all the solutions by far. From 70 feet out, it took them three to five shots per drone. That's a metal piece that went into that. So what do you say this? So we can see here, it looks like if we had more zip ties it would have been in the net it blew a hole in the metal piece that went straight through it. So we just put some cartoon shotgun holes in the chicken wire there. When you think like net ammo, you think somewhat safer, partially safe, I think you would actually die if you got shot with this stuff. Five minutes. Five minutes? We'll just cut to some more videos. We're going to go to the really fun now. One thing I want to say about this. Lastly, the piece of resistance, the big guy, we have the sparrow hook attached to it. So one thing I want to say about this is I'll fly through some of these guys, you look through our slides, out of the air to air based drone defense products. I called all of them. All of them are either they're about to release their V2 any day now and they check the shell. Bob, check the shelves, there's no more V1 left. You don't actually sell any product. You know, you got years going back with some of these products. They're winning awards and eventually you find out like we're hoping to ship our first round of products by the end of this year. It looks like they've had products out for years. I only found one company out of the air to air based ones that would actually sell me and it was a prototype still, but actually we're willing to sell me a prototype for some air to air based combat and it's one of the ones of the nature of it drops a huge net and tries to scoop in on it. The big guy, we have the Sparrow Hawk attached to a huge DJI M600 drone and essentially it's going to be some air to air combat. It's going to try to go catch up to the danger drone with a really big net and swoop it up to try to capture the drone. I love how it's so creepy here. The Sparrow Hawk system is by far the most expensive option Brown tested. The drone and the net system together come close to around $11,000. Yeah, about 11 grand. This is the actual drone itself, which is the filmographer is using the same as that drone. It's a DJI M600. But a couple interesting things here. They did sell us one. They noticed us unfurl it by hand. They were supposed to be able to do it. I was like, do you have an instruction manual for this? And the guy was like, can you give us an extra day? I was like, what? Can you send it to me? They're writing it as you go, right? This guy sends me five pages of just pure text, not a single picture, not a single image. Like a million parts. And just prose, just text, and being as articulate as I can describing how to build a bicycle. And I was like, can you take a photo of your phone or something, man? He's like, it's pretty straightforward. I was like, no, it's pretty much the exact opposite of straightforward. Yeah, it's not straightforward even in the least bit. But we were able to get it going anyway. So that isn't what you saw right there as an interceptor type, obviously air-to-air interceptor type. Yeah. It caused too much in terms of that. I was really debating having with those ones that have to swoop in, they have to get really close to you and they have to come in from a predictable direction, right? If it's chasing me, it's going to come from behind me. And I wanted to use a confetti gun do like Maverick style, like I'm bringing them in closer, let it get in closer and use a confetti gun out the rear to basically fart confetti on it and make it crash the big drone, which I'm pretty confident would have worked, but it's pretty expensive gamble at this amount of time. With the chicken wire stop it? In that case, I think it would probably grab on the chicken wire. The chicken wire is more about the ones that shoot the net at it, hoping that the net will take it down. I think it would actually probably grip up the chicken wire. I think part of the other problem is if they have a faster drone than your interceptor drone, there's nothing you can do, right? So let's get through these real quick. So drone shooting. This drone catcher is one of the ones you'll see the most. It's got like dog fighting stuff going on. They've got stuff going back years. They say it's going to be about 30,000 euro for one of them. And even with all this stuff going back years and years, they're really hoping to ship their first batch of products by the end of this year. Can't buy right now. Airspace, they wouldn't even get back to me. They got back to one of our people saying it cost millions of dollars to shoot basically shoot a net at it in the air. This is from Michigan a little research project. And this one's interesting. Excipio. This was Excipio. Doing the way back machine, it was $3,500 for one of these net shooter Excipios back in December. They've rebranded it. They're going to be called drone hunter. You can't buy the old Excipio anymore. Drone hunter is not for sale yet. But it went from $3,500 to $47,500 in a couple of months with no clear identity as to what's going to be different about it. I think they're like, we're charging. How much? We need to charge more than that. So pricing is all over the board right now. Who are you? And if you're government, they add a couple of zeros. Yeah. I have a bunch of these guys like the Sparrowhawk that we tested. I found a PDF with an old invoice from the end of the year it was 25,000 Euro for one of these other guys. We bought ours for the actual Sparrowhawk it was only 5,000 pounds itself so versus 25,000 euros for a similar product. You can see they're all over the board. Sparrowhawk. Jamming. None of these guys can sell in the United States and they won't be able to. You see all these articles about these jamming devices for the most part. You can't jam GPS. You can't jam cell phone connections which is what the Danger Drone uses for command and control. They're not allowed to sell these in the United States and they won't be. At any time in the foreseeable future. They're basically just doing a reverse turnover cell phone connection for the USB 3G adapter for making it pretty much impossible for most of these jammers to the ones that are legal to buy anyway to work against it. Guys I know we're running short on time we will be able to take questions out there a few lasers. These run or directed energy weapons. The guys at Boeing were like maybe let's just make a dumb down version of the ones we use to shoot real planes out of the sky like fighter jets. They're not as good as that department 13 up in the corner there. They created these auto tracking like basically a drone going crazy fast it was just like auto tracking no problem just see it burst into flames with directed energy weapons. These things I think Boeing's are about 11 million dollars a unit and I think it's like rate down about 6 million dollars a unit but you're looking at a million dollars for one of these guys throwing them back to your truck to knock these out. They're putting them on ships and trucks basically deploying them. I'm always looking to beat these lasers. Basically China was talking all kinds of crap saying we could beat most of the US's lasers with just smoke bombs and it may actually be true. Smoke and dust and obscurance really degrades the ability to use these flashing mirrors on your drone to ward off the laser. One of my favorites is the metamaterials which bends the light and energy around it like predator. You wouldn't look like predator but does something similar in terms of displacing the heat and energy and the last one there's actually a project and a product that somebody does that has auto tracking of the text that a laser is on you, on your drone and immediately responds with another laser back to take it out. So there's a whole people sell these products it's pretty cool. Again we didn't have millions of dollars to test this stuff out but maybe next year legal issues. This guy's a hero, it's a random guy basically anyone who registered their drones last year can get your money back. This guy was like this law is just bull crap man I'm suing the government anyone. So the registration drone law from last year got thrown out a couple months ago. Okay we're going to wrap up. One last thing with the shotguns and web people are like why don't you just shoot a regular shotgun at that point like this guy did he's shooting it above his house with his kids and all. Anyone poke a lipo battery that's in these guys they're basically like lava bombs that might blow up for no reason whatsoever let alone if you're shooting a shotgun at it and spit flames everywhere so not something you want to do in a residential area trying to shoot these guys out of the sky and yep and the future is awesome drone swarms none of these defenses are going to work against drone swarms none of these nets if I send 5000 drones it's not going to do anything against you know a couple these nets aren't going to do anything super small bug sized drones hybrid approaches we have one of these spiders so a drone could drop off a spider and it could crawl in a building could plug in an ethernet port or you'll see like submarines that are coming up as long as it shoots something in the air off or UPS trucks that are driving your neighborhood and then deploying with a drone the hybrid approach is going to be big in the future and anyway you think air when you hear drone and drone swarms no one's thinking naval supremacy and a million little raspberry pi based submarines just controlling the ocean and it's kind of a big deal still but nobody thinks about it and raspberry pi based somebody released some dog fighting AI stuff for the raspberry pi which is being real so I think the next top guns coming out I think it's going to be all raspberry pies like you know the plaque for the alternates down in the air or something like that but it's pretty freaky it was beating this guy nonstop and that's it all right time thanks guys