 Jimmy K here, Metal Voice, look at this. The Metal Voice shirts are now on sale. Just go to the video description to find out on how you can purchase one. Metal! Welcome to the Metal Voice. Today on the show, we've got returning guest, the one, the only. Say it, Alan, who? Obviously himself. All right, himself. We had so much fun doing the Gary Moore show with you and then of course the Aussie. We had to have you back to complete the trilogy. And when we brought it up at the end of our last interview, we said, yeah, sure. So we'll take full advantage of that. First things first, let's just talk charity for a moment. The Metal Hall of Fame All-Stars with producer Neil Kernan, Bob Daisley on bass, Tony McAlpine, who everybody knows, Mike Tarelli on vocals, and of course studio drummer and founder, Patches Waldo, who was playing drums, and Derek Chorinian from Dream Theater. They all came out with a song called Attack of the Witch. And Bob, you played on it. Maybe you want to just talk about this briefly. I was glad to do it because it was for a good cause to help children, you know, that need special requirements and things. And so it was it was good for me. I mean, it felt good to do it. You know, it's just about, you know, a good song and a good project. And I was glad to be involved. All right, Attack of the Witch on Bandcamp. You can purchase it for, I think it's a dollar and for a good cause for special needs kids. And the dad founder, Patches Waldo, who put all that together. Congrats to him. So, Alan, you want to start things off? Hey, I just want to say I finally got my hands on the Holy Grail, which is for fact sake, written by none other than Bob Daisley. It's a massive book. It's so big. It was so good I had to lend it to Jimmy. It's a read because it's one of the best biographies, autobiographies I've read in a long, long, long time. Oh, great. Glad to hear it. Yeah, it's got great reviews. I mean, people are loving it. If you look at the reviews on Amazon and places like that, they love it. They're giving it five stars, which is great. Great to see. You know, we talked about the Aussie years. We talked about the Gary Moore years, but let's go a little bit. Since it's the anniversary of Eternal Idol by Black Sabbath, let's talk a little bit about Black Sabbath and the making of Eternal Idol and how you first got involved with Tony Iommi to participate on the album. Well, I got a call from the producer, Jeff Glicksman, who I'd worked with, with Gary Moore. I think the first thing that I ever did with Gary was with Jeff Glicksman producing his album. So Jeff and I knew each other well. And out of the blue, I got this call and Jeff Glicksman was in Montserrat in the West Indies doing the Black Sabbath album. That was the Eternal Idol. Had some time. I was still working with Gary Moore and I had some time off. And Jeff said, do you fancy doing a Sabbath album? I said, well, I've got a bit of time off. And so I had a chat with Patrick Meehan Jr., who was the manager of Black Sabbath at that time. And so we agreed on some terms. And I think I flew out within a day or so. I just got out there. And I'd never really worked with Tony before. But Tony's great. I love his playing, his writing, his sound. I mean, everything that he plays is a classic riff. They're just pouring out of him. And they're not just sort of throwaway riffs. They're all like really, really good, valid riffs. And to build songs around those riffs, it was great for me. I enjoyed it. That was 1986. Time flies. Yeah. And Eric Singer was on drums. And Eric and I got on very well. And Ray Gillen was the vocalist. And we all got on fine together. I remember the very first day I went in, I was probably still a bit jet-bagged. I'd only been there. I got in the night before. And I said to Jeff Glicksman, well play me the track without bass, because I think some of the tracks already had bass on them from Dave Spitz. And Dave Spitz had to go home to, he had to go back to America to deal with whatever it was. He had to deal with, I think, some personal issues or something. And so I was going to play on all the tracks. So I got Jeff Glicksman to play me a track. And I said, without bass, and I just had a listen. And then I played what I thought would suit the track. Tony Iomi came in, and Jeff Glicksman played him what I'd just done. And he just looked at Jeff Glicksman. Tony looked at Jeff and just said, yep, that's great. And just give him a free hand, let him do whatever he wants and walked out. You know, that was great for me to, you know, to hear that from Tony. I just did one track. Love what it didn't give me a free reign. Yeah. And Gillen, Ray Gillen, you meet him. Did you write the lyrics together with him? Or did he already get a song? Well, Ray had some scratch lyrics written, and I think a couple of the others had sort of put bits in or whatever. But a lot of them weren't that great. I wouldn't say they're world class. So they asked me to write the lyrics for the songs, which I did. And there's, you know, there's some lines that I left in there of Ray's and that, you know, but that was, yeah, that was just a sort of. This is with the bonus, by the way. This is the bonus. It's funny because there's two versions of it. There's one with Ray Gillen singing and one with Tony Martin. That's right. And let me tell you the songs with the Ray Gillen, Raydallan, you've heard them. They're like of good quality. I mean, they're like a step above. Oh, sure. Yeah. It wasn't demo. He was doing the vocals. And I think because Ray left or I don't know the full circumstances because I wasn't with the band at that point. But when Ray left or the Indian, I don't know if there was a fallout or what happened between him and management or Tony or whatever it was. But his vocals had already been recorded, but they didn't use him because they knew that they were replacing him with Tony Martin. So they got Tony to redo everything and released it that way. And it went for years and years without anyone hearing the Ray Gillen. You see, they were Ray Gillen's melodies and phrasing. And that's what comes from Ray's heart. So Tony did a great job, admirable job, of replacing what Ray had done. But the initial thing came from Ray. You know, I think when you hear Ray's version, it's like the version. In the book, you make illusions to why you didn't stay in Savathy or thought their manager was a little dodgy at the time. And you know what? And Tony, I owe him his great autobiography as well. He confirms that. And in fact, he says here that the reason why Ray left was nobody was getting paid me and wasn't paying anybody. Yeah. Yeah. I did get paid. That's great. But I was wary of the whole situation because I knew that everyone was unhappy. And I thought, well, you know, why go into a situation like that? Plus, I was very happy with working with Gary Moore. And, you know, I didn't really want to leave Gary, you know. I mean, to join Savathy, it would have been an honor. You know, a great band, great name. And Tony I owe me and I got on great together really well, you know. And I love the music. And it would have been artistically, it would have been nice to be able to do, you know, to be a member of the band, but everything seemed a bit unstable, a bit shaky and a bit, you know, there wasn't any sort of definition to everything. And so I was wary of the whole thing. And as was just said, Tony confirms it in his book as well. Was it like the vision of Tony to say, okay, we're getting out of the doom business and we're going more into the 80s, you know, big sound and more glossies. It was that like the direction of the band or just it naturally came out the way it came out? I think it just naturally came out. There was no sort of plan or definite sort of, let's try to sound this way or that way or whatever. I think everybody just played and wrote and performed and was recorded, you know, just in a natural progression sort of thing. You know, I don't think it was, you know, it was like when we went in the studio with the Blizzard of Oz, you know, it wasn't like, oh, what can we write? How can we have a record? We just went in, did what we did, what we loved and did it, you know, the best way that we could. And we thought because at that time in the 80s, you know, that there was the disco and the punk thing and the new wave and all that, where people were actually trying to jump on the bandwagon and have hit singles or hit records or whatever, but we didn't do any of that. It was just do what you do, do it as well as you can and if they like it, they like it. To be honest with you, I think that Sabbath album, the Eternal Idol is underrated and it's actually a very good album. We'll show it again. Of course, I did purchase the one with Ray Gillen and Tony Martin. When you said the melody was built by Ray Gillen, it's so true because Tony Martin, you could see a great voice, don't get me wrong, but you could see he's basically singing the same way Ray Gillen is singing, you know? And sometimes it's hard to even tell them apart sometimes, you know, when you listen to the album. Yeah, well, maybe he tried to recreate what Ray had done a little bit because I think Tony was happy with what Ray had done and it really suited the band, suited the music, suited the album. And I think possibly that Tony was trying to recreate what had already been done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alan. No, and again, you know, you spoke in the book about your mom, how she was kind of blessed with foresight and here's a good case of you kind of inheriting that gene and seeing how it would play out at that time with Sabbath and it was probably a good thing to leave with the management situation. Yeah, I think so. It's all, sometimes it's just down to a gut feeling of which way to go, you know. My mom was, you know, gifted, gifted psychic and she was so accurate and I probably do have a little bit of that, you know, things come to me and quite often, you know, they're accurate but I can't do it at will like she could. She could sit down and do a reading sort of thing and she was just spot on. I don't know if I should talk about this or maybe we should leave it for people to read in the book but the Ouija board, I was kind of taken back by that at the Randy Rhodes years. Oh, when we were down at Monmouth. Yeah, and you did the Ouija board with Randy. I don't know if I want to leave that, you know, not talk about that in the teaser for your book or if you want to speak to that very high level or I don't know if you can. Well, you know, we would sort of, that place was reputed to be haunted. The Monmouth Rockfield rehearsal place and it probably was, you know, there were little things that happened and I've written about them in the book but I think one night we were just in that mood we thought we'll sit down and have a seance and we did the letters and numbers with the glass and all that and some things came out and it did, you know, I go into detail in the book but it did say things to Randy that freaked us all out because we threw all the bits to paper with the letters and numbers in the fire and broke the glass and poured salt on the table and that because it was not a good vibe and it was not good news and it was not a good prediction. It was pretty awful. Anyway, so if everybody you got to read the book to truly get the details of this seance, this premonition of sorts, we're not going to get into details because I want people to read the book and I want people to buy the book. What I took away from the book is first of all, the vernacular you're using, it's like just three of us talking in the book with all the expressions, the expressions your father used to use, they were just hilarious and it was just a set of circumstances. Bob, you were just like so many times the right place at the right time. It's just an amazing career when you look back at it. Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, that's part of the whole thing is being in the right place at the right time to connect and, you know, I've been very fortunate in working with so many, you know, gifted people. You know, there's some great guitar players, great drummers, great singers, great situations, you know, and it's been an honor for me and I feel grateful for my good fortune, you know. Yeah, I don't think there's any other artist who's actually played with all the greats like you have. So now we have the 40-year anniversary of, we're going to jump back and forth and we'll keep it very high and feel free to answer or not answer and it's all good, you know. I don't want to touch over some legal issues or anything like that. So we have the Diary of a Mad Men, I think it's the 40-year anniversary, the rerout flying high. So I'm watching a video and this is just me, Bob. I'm watching a video and I go, where's Bob in the video? And I'm trying to understand, you know, like it looks like it's just an Aussie song and of course Randy's there, which he, with all, he's got to be there, of course. Of course. But for the people out there who don't realize, tell us about the writing of flying high again and just how it came about and who contributed to that song? Good question. Well, Lee died in September last year. So in September of this year, I put up a short snippet of some of the recordings that I have of our writing sessions and rehearsal sessions. I didn't record them for any other reason than to have a, you know, a reference to work to because sometimes you would, you would, you know, write a piece and you say, oh, we'll remember that tomorrow, but quite often you don't. So I recorded everything so we wouldn't forget anything. And on that particular day, you'll hear the recording on my website and it's of Lee singing the original vocal melody to fly high because it was just the three of us there. That was Randy, Lee and me. And Randy had the main riff. I contributed musically with Randy with changes in the song. Then Lee came up with the basic vocal melody, which probably would have been maybe, you know, enhanced or added to later. But when it came to the lyrics, I wrote all the lyrics and came up with that title. And it was, there's a story in the book. You may remember that when I was just a young lad, I think it was about 19. And I was in the country here in Australia in a country town. And it was in the 60s. So this sort of old leather-faced country bloke came up to me and he said, oh, he's going to be going back down to Sydney town. You'll be flying high again. He was assuming that because we dressed in flowered shirts and fringe jackets and high heel boots and little sunglasses that were all on drugs. And it sort of stuck in my mind, you know, that little episode. So that's kind of where I got the, it was him, his words that formed the title of the song. And that was, yeah. So you can hear the original version on my website. It was just a snippet. It was only like 40, 45 seconds or something. That's what you can legally play of something that's not, you know, published and signed and all the rest of it. But I think that'll answer your question if you hear that. Okay. Well, I mean, so I take my takeaway is you wrote, Lee wrote the melody. You wrote the lyrics, arrangements, and Randy wrote the music, I guess. Well, Randy didn't write all the music. And that's quite often the thing with, with some of the stuff with Randy, he did most of the songs. He came up with the basic riffs and the idea of it. Some of them, all of it. And I usually wrote the lyrics, but some of the music in that that I co-wrote with Randy. No, no. And again, you know, going back in your youth, like you said, man, to be, you can be hospitalized for having long hair back in the day. You know, you look around the world today, people got the, you know, different colors, hair, nose rings, everything. In the day, if your hair went down slightly past your ear, you can, you can be sent off to reform school almost. Oh, so we got the shit kicked out of us a couple of times by thugs, you know, for just having slightly long hair. And, and that in those times, and I'm talking sort of early to mid sixties, we were kind of like the pioneers of, of, of that state. It wasn't just a fashion either. It was a social statement to grow your hair long was a statement. And it was like, you know, it was a kind of anti-establishment statement sort of thing. And I guess it frightened some people, you know, but I got kicked out of high school because of it. I refused to wear school uniform and get my haircut. And it wasn't that long. It was just color length, you know, but it was, it was my personal statement, you know, and there were a couple of times that we got really badly bashed up for, for looking different, being different, daring to make that statement, you know. Yeah. You know, another part that I was a little surprised I knew about, but I didn't know about it was Steve eyes. You know, he joined Ozzie for a time. Yeah. I never, I knew about it high, really high level, but I never really knew about it. Maybe you could speak to that a little bit and you contributing with him. Well, that was an honor as well. And that was great. You know, it was, it didn't work. It didn't really work out between Ozzie and Steve Vai for, for whatever reasons. I don't, I don't know the, you know, the full details, but I remember I was at, I was at home and I got the phone call. Will you come and, you know, play co-write on the next album? And you know, I love the idea of working with Steve Vai and Ozzie together. And so we went to Steve Vai studio in LA and began, you know, I was putting down tracks with Steve on some of the stuff. And then, and then we went to New York and began writing and rehearsing in the Sony studios in New York, but then all of a sudden it all fizzled out and the plug was pulled. And I was like, no, it's not going to happen. But, you know, I have. Did the songs live on? No, did the songs live on? Yeah, I think some of them did. I really can't remember what songs were there. I've got, I've got some recordings from those sessions of, and it's mostly just me, Steve Vai, and the drummer who was Dean Castranova. A very good drummer. And it was, you know, it clicked. It was, it was working well. But, you know, the whole thing as an overall project didn't, didn't really work out. So Steve wasn't in that anymore. And that was the end of that. But, you know, it was fun to do at the time. I remember when I got to Steve's studio, they had been using another bass player. I can't remember who it was or anything much about it really. But I remember Steve say, Steve told me himself. He said, they were asking this bass player, whoever it was in the studio, try to sound like Bob Daisley. What would he do here? Until it got to the point where Steve, I just said, why don't we get the real one over here? And that's, that's why I was asked to go and do it. Try to write the lyrics like Bob Daisley. Try to write the lyrics like Bob Daisley. Well, it was more the playing side of things of, you know, what would he play here? What would he do? You know, that sort of thing. And, but you can never really recreate something that someone else does. You can play a bit like their style or play what you might think that they might play there or whatever. But you know, it's, it's just, there's, there's only one of whoever it is, you know, and, you know, I've been asked that question many times of all those different guitar players you played with, who's the best? Well, there is no best. There's the best for a situation. You know, Richard Blackmore was the best guitarist in Rainbow. Randy Rose was the best guitarist in the Blizzard of Oz. You know, Gary Moore was the best guitarist in the Gary Moore band. It's kind of like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things I was reading the book and it's really your friendship with Ozzy. And then Sharon comes in and, but it's, you know, okay, this happened and then this happened and I didn't get paid there. And, and I've, I've seen her say, geez, Bob's such a nice guy. He's giving them a third, fourth, fifth chance. But then my family saw it towards the end of the book. He's like, Bob, stop, stop. Don't go down that road. You know how it's going to end. So it just, I don't know your comments about how you were so like good hearted and always giving them a second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh chance sometimes. Well, it does come across like that, but it was quite a complicated situation. It was never black and white of like, you know, it does get complicated with the, with the overall going back and forth and some of the legal issues with, with jet records and with, with Don Arden, the, you know, the father and the more you read into it, you get to understand, you know, the complications and why I kept on going back and what happened. Yeah. I agree with that. I did live in hope and I did give the benefit of the doubt and I did want it to, you know, work out, I didn't. Bob, I'm going to say something. I think giving people the benefit of the doubt and always looking for the best and people is always the better way to go in life. Of course. And I think that's what you, you were doing. You're saying, I like this. I enjoy this. And I hope these people could turn around, you know, and, you know, appreciate who I am. And there's nothing wrong with that, you know. No, it's, you've tried to do the right thing. Even if you get shit on or, or it doesn't work out or whatever, but at least if you've tried to do the right thing, then, then that's the main point. Absolutely. And, you know, what you got to play with so many great people because of that, you know, the offshoots of all that, right? So there's so much more. Another. So talk to Carmine, a piece or apesie, whichever the name is. Carmine apesie. Yeah. Any apesie. Carmine apesie. Any apesie. They just, they both went with the pronunciation of their name. Most people call them, you know, most people called it vine apesie and Carmine apesie. Yeah. I mean, the real pronunciation in Italian, which is an Italian name is a peachy. A peachy. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. So on Bark at the Moon. All right. This is what Carmine tells me, you know, because, you know, Carmine was part of it at the end. Tommy Aldrich. Yeah. He didn't really play any drums on it though. He says he came in and he fixed it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How much did, so Tommy plays, they want Tommy, they want Tommy, they put Tommy on the album, then Carmine comes in to fix it all up. I mean, what's the story there? It's all Tommy, you know, Tommy played on that album. Tommy's, you know, forte really is these live stuff. His live performance is great. And he's still great in the studio. He's still a good drummer, but he gets a little bit sort of, Oh, I don't know. Timinated. Being in the studio, it rattles him a little bit, I think. And sometimes, you know, he takes longer than, than, you know, some other people might. And, and it was, I know it was taking a long time when we're at Ridge Farm to get the drum tracks down. And, you know, the, the powers that be, we've gotten a bit rattled about that. And, but, you know, the thing is once it was done, it was done. It was in the can. It was Tommy on the album. It should have been just okay. Let's go on the road and take Tommy because his forte really is playing live. But instead, Tommy was ousted and they got Carmine in. Carmine's another great drummer. But I couldn't see the point of shutting the gate after the horse got out. If you know what I mean. And that's what it seemed like to me, but it didn't work out with Carmine anyway, because there was a personality clashes and this clash and that clash and they got Tommy back and, you know, but Carmine didn't really do much on the album. He says he touched it up. It wasn't like he re-recorded the album or anything. No, no, no, no. I think they brought him into sort of tweak stuff. That's what he was saying. He was tweaking Tommy's drum sound at the end. I don't, I don't know what he did exactly, but that's what he was saying. Well, that's what he said. Carmine was on the tour for, well, the English tour and Scandinavia. And then, then we went to America. And then that's when things started to fall apart. And they got Tommy back. Is it true that he was asked to leave after they found selling his t-shirts at an Ozzy Osbourne Continent? Carmine, a piece of t-shirts being sold and that's why he was asked to leave. Is there any truth in that? It was a combination of things really. I think it was, well, see, he had a contract. And then his contract, I mean, I didn't see the contract. It was just, I'm just going on what he told me. He said he had a contract with, where he was, he got the okay to do clinics on the afternoons of some of the shows. So he would go along and do his drum clinics and fans had come along, pay. And he would, you know, teach them and show them things. And he also had his own little merchandising stand that he sold t-shirts and sticks and badges and whatever else. And I think it kind of got up the nose of those at the top. And, you know, I didn't like the way it was handled, but that wasn't for me to jarge or do anything about. So all of a sudden he was gone and Tommy was back. When we saw the Bark at the Moon tour, Alan, who was on bass and who was on drums? Bob, were you in Montreal, Canada? Did you play there? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did the whole world tour with the Bark at the Moon. So then it was you. And some of it was Carmine and then the last bits were with Tommy. I can't remember who was, you were on bass. So I was like right there up front. I think, I think, I find, I remember it as Tommy being on drums. Yeah. And Bob was on bass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there was this little like small person who used to bring up, had a pillow and he brought it to Ozzy every few songs. Oh, that was Tony. Yeah. Yeah. But what was that pillow he was taking? It was like a salt pillow or something. It was very peculiar because I was standing right front stage there watching. And there's this like this pillow he was bringing him. Nobody could answer my question. I've asked Carmine this. I've asked everybody. Oh, what was that? What was on the pillow? It was on the pillow. There's like a little pill. Like I was standing right there. And I don't know what it was. Maybe it was a salt pill. It could have been. I don't know. I mean, Ozzy didn't do drugs or drink. No, I think on stage. No, no, no. So I really don't know. All right. I still not answered the question. I still can't figure it out. All these years. Is it true that when you're on the Molly crew, the bus at the Molly crew, they're even, I mean, were they nice guys? Were in, you know, they're great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're a wild boys. You know, but as, you know, that we got on great together, you know, sometimes one or two of them would go on our bus. And sometimes some of us would go on theirs. Are you going to ask me about the McMars? Yeah. Are you the power broker and keeping McMars? You're the power broker here, right? The voice of reason. That night after the show, Mick went on our bus with Ozzie and, and that, and I went on their bus. So I was the only one of our lot that went on their bus. And they were having a meeting about, I asked Vince Neil, he came out here with, with Molly crew and I went to the show and, and saw them and it was, it was great to see him again. That was a few years back now. And I said to Vince, I said, look, is it okay for me to say in my book about that night, you know, with the McMars when I was on your body, he said, yeah, that's the, he said, he probably even knows about that now. But what they were planning doing was getting rid of Mick and getting another guitarist in. And they asked me for my opinion. So I said, well, if you want my opinion, what it's worth, I would say, do not try to fix something that's not broken. I said, I've seen it before with leakers like in the Blizzard of Oz. You know, it's, I said, you've got a chemistry there. You're going to, you know, a functioning unit and Mick, Mick Mars is part of that. Don't, don't fuck it up. You know, that's my opinion. Just don't do it. And I think I saved Mick's neck that night because they were getting serious about, you know, getting someone else. Probably because he was, I mean, Mick was good for the band. He was part of the sound, part of the, you know, delivery of, of what they did. And it'd be like sort of trying to replace Ringo in the Beatles with John Bonham or something, or Ginger Baker or somebody really, really technically brilliant, but it just wouldn't work. It wouldn't suit, you know. So I said, no, leave it as it is. It's not broken to stop trying to fix it. So, you know, they left it alone and it worked out. Yeah, Mick, Mick was, I think he was a few years older than them. And he was also, I mean, you wouldn't call Mick a virtuoso or a guitar hero, but he was great for the band. So I just said, you can read about it all here in the book. And you can read about it all here. Oh, look at, you know, actually you want, what really blew me away with this book was the pictures. It's like you used to take, you took so many pictures. Oh yeah, there's 380 photos. Look at this. This is a massive book. Like this is like so heavy. My back hurts when I lift it. There's just so many pictures. You've detailed your life and all the events and all the, from the roads to Gary Moore to, you know, to the later years. It's just amazing how many pictures you took. Well, I, you know, I took a lot of photos and I also kept a diary, but I also have a very good memory, you know, so I can, I can remember things very well. And, and, and quite often I, I would just consult the diary to see what happened and when and that. And it's, and then I've got all the dates and the days and who was there. And which was why it's called for fact sake, because it's all factual. Yeah. Like I said, it was, it's such a great read. I had to lend Jimmy the book and I knew he would enjoy it thoroughly as well. So buddy, that looks like a first edition copy. Yes, I think so. But there's no, they made a hardback version. Not after that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I lucked out then. All right. So, so okay. Settle the hardback versions or the later ones. The only thing I changed was I added to the epilogue at the end when things like, and when I was so and so has died or this has happened or this development came or whatever, you know, but the basics of the book remained the same without any changes. And apart from like in the very first one, there was a couple of words that needed either replacing or correcting or spellings and things like that. There was a couple of typos and that, but the, the current one is a hardback with, with the added parts to the epilogue and that just to bring it up to date. Yeah. No, it's great. So settle this now. Okay. So Frankie Bernal. Frankie Bernal who's been on the show says that he, and you know, rest in peace, Frankie. We love Frankie Bernal. You know, this is over the mountain. This is over the mountain. Now, that was Lee's. That was Lee's. Now Lee Kerslake was on the show too. And he said, no, that was mine. That was mine. Of course it was his. Where does Frankie and again, I don't know. He didn't even know who Frankie was. He'd never even heard Frankie play. Well, you know, we'd probably heard the name from Randy in those times, but we, you know, we'd never heard anything that they'd done because they were virtually unknown anywhere. I think they could only get a record deal in Japan as a sort of glam rock band. But, but now when Lee came up with that, if anything, I would say it's got a slight influence from something that Ian pasted with deep purple. But that's about all, but it's still Lee's. I mean, it's still his, his thing. And it's nothing to do with Frank. There were no like tapes that Randy brought with him because they said they jammed with Ozzie and LA, then they went to England. So there were no tapes from your collection. Randy got the gig in LA. Ozzie said, you're in the band. You want the gig. But when Ozzie came back to England, that was when I met him at a club in London called the music machine. And he didn't even mention Randy was going to get another band together. Cause he was, I think he and Jet Records wanted to base the whole band in England. So the, the Randy thing went out the window. It was only when I went to Ozzie's place. And we had a knock together with, with a couple of guys he had up there. It could have been the people that he had the first time when he left Sabbath in, I think 77 or 78. And he got a couple of guys together and he was going to call the band, the Blizzard of Oz then, but that didn't work out. And he went back to Sabbath. It could have been those guys. I don't know. But when I said to Ozzie, look, you know, I love working with Ozzie. We got on great together straight away immediately. And I said, I'd love to do this. But if you want to get serious, I don't think that the other two guys are really, they're okay. They're nice guys, decent players and all that, but I don't think they're well class. So he went in and he said, he said, pack up fellows, go on. It's not working out. And that was it. That was when he told me about, he said, I met this other guitarist in LA called Randy Rhodes. I said, well, let's get him over here. And that's what happened. We went to David Arden at Jet Records and David finally agreed. Cause at first he said, no, he's unknown and he's young and this, that and the other. And then eventually he said, okay, against my better judgment. And that was his words. I still remember his exact words. He said, again, I agree to fly this young, unknown kid over. And that was when the band began. You're a good friends with one of Alan's favorite singers of all time, Bond Scott. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew Bond from the 60s here from the circuit. What was his personality like, like on a given day? A lovely bloat. Heart of gold. Lovely bloat. Real down to worth. Real sort of rough nut street kid with a heart of gold and a real gentleman. Really nice bloat. That really affected me when he died because well, the story about him dying and how I found out in the book as well. It's just, that was, that was very sad. That was a sad way to find out exactly the way you wrote it in the book. It's a really sad way to find out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you play with Ozzie and Aaron Meaden at the Reading Festival? Was it when Paul Deanna was in the band or was in Bruce just got into the band? Do you remember? At the Reading Festival. Yeah, the Reading. Yeah. Now, well, I think we were, the Blizzard of Oz was booked to do the Reading Festival that first year, which would have been, well, that would have been 1980. But we weren't ready to do it. So we weren't actually on it. Unless you're talking about another one, another one. I saw a clip. Was it the Blizzard of Oz or the Blizzard of Oz? There's a photo in the book. They even got the name wrong. There's a picture of the poster in there. That's what I'm talking about. The Blizzard of Oz. Yeah. The Blizzard of Oz, yeah. You were on the bill. Meaden was on the bill. Yeah. But we didn't do it. But you didn't play. So that was just sort of like a poster of something that should have happened but didn't. Yeah, they didn't. Yes. Okay. And when you played in the UK with the Blizzard of Oz. Yeah. Was there any film crews anywhere? No, nothing. Nothing. So there's no footage of us anywhere that I know of anyway. You know, at the time, I thought it would have been good to actually get a crew in and film one of the shows. But, but that didn't happen. You would think that with, you know, obviously coming from Sabbath and Sabbath being such a big name, but I think the new band might be filmed for, you know, for posterity or for whatever reasons, but nothing happened. They did record a show with the mobile studio. And two of the tracks, I think no bone movies and goodbye to romance. We used on the tribute album tribute to roundie. Yeah. That's not that band on that. That's us from the, which they didn't pay you for. What's that? Which they didn't pay you for. Yeah. Or credit. Spend your whole life getting, you know, other people, other people sort of taking the credit for your work. Must be frustrating. Must be frustrating. Yeah. But Alan, do you got anything? Oh, no. I mean, again, you know, the way you built up your youth, the bands that were influencing you, the Rolling Stones and Beatles. And then you had the chance to meet George Harrison. Years later, when he came to visit his neighbor, Gary Moore and one of Gary shows. And the way you just described that whole story in the book, it's so self-effacing. And you must have been shocked. It's realized you're talking to a live Beatles. Oh, I was gobsmacked. You know, it was, it was, I've always been a Beatles fan since they, since I was like 13 or something getting ready for high school. And my mom had the radio on in the kitchen and she loves you came on. And my ears pricked up and I ran into the kitchen and turned the, I thought, God, what is this? And that was like, oh, this new band from England called the Beatles. And it's just amazing. And, and, you know, I was just so fascinated with, with the whole energy thing, the whole, you know, what was happening with that. And to be able to, and that was in by the 80s when, when Gary lived near George Harrison, that George came to one of our shows and stood on my side of the stage for the whole show. Foot away. So, and then he came into the dressing room later, you know, I shook his hand and that meant a lot to me. But the way he was talking about this band that he used to be in, he said, oh yeah, we used to play here. And I felt like so in George, you're George Harrison and the band you're talking about is the Beatles, you know, I felt like giving him a slap. But it was very nice, you know, he's a real gentle and lovely, lovely, gentle person. But not only George Harrison and the Beatles, but Led Zeppelin, right? You know, our plant. I mean, you, you hung out with these guys, right? They're, they're like pals, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I joined chicken shack in 72. I think the, yeah, or actually no, it was when I was first staying with Clive Colson in London in 72. That would have been July 72. And I was only there a couple of days. I'd just arrived and the doorbell rang and it was John Paul Jones. He bought a new car and he said, oh, come out and never look at my new car. Well, see, I was a major Zeppelin fan. I love the band. You know, I love what they were doing, that sort of heavy blues stuff, anything blues orientated for me. I just love. So we went out there and I was in awe of him because he was such a great musician and the bass player, one of my favorite bands at that time. You know, and then when I joined Stan, what I would chicken shack in 72, that was 71 when, when I met John Paul Jones. And then in 72, after I joined chicken shack and Stan was up in his house in Kidderminster, which is near where Robert and Bonzo lived. There was a knock at Stan's door and it was John Bonham. He said, come out and have a look at my new car. He bought this stingray. So there's a photo in the book as well with Bonzo with his new stingray that he just had shipped over from America. And that's it. You know, it all meant so much to me. You know, I'd go, I'd go up the pub in Kidderminster with, with Stan and I'd be Stan at the bar and in would walk Robert Plant and Stan with a snub of beer. You know, so pretty fascinating stuff for, you know, a young lad like me at the time being Zeppelin fan, you know, I went to one of their rehearsals and even though they weren't there at that point at that time, I think that the road crew were testing all the gear and had it all set up. So there was John Paul Jones's basses and these acoustic amplifiers and Pages Marshalls and the drum kit and all that stuff. And they're going through everything and I, and I got up and played John Paul Jones's basses, both of them and through his gear. And that for me, that meant a lot. Oh, wow. I'm playing the basses that were on those Zeppelin albums. Like, I think they only had. Yeah, they did. They only had three albums out at that point. They'd done the third album. But, you know, it all meant so much to me. Yeah. And you know what? We should also talk about depersonalization syndrome, the syndrome that you talk about throughout the book. And if you want to talk about it. Oh, sure. Yeah. So people can know about it, right? Oh, it's, well, see what, when I was only 16 and it hit me, it was, it was nobody knew. It was very difficult to explain because if you have it, and it is actually quite common, it's way more common than I ever, you know, imagined. But as years went by and there was more research done on it and that, you know, there's, they found out there's a lot more people have it and suffer from it than, than, you know, they thought. And at the time I was trying to explain it's. Apparently it's a brain function thing. So it can come from trauma, whether it be physical trauma being bashed in the head or emotional trauma by being very upset or mental trauma by being, you know, mentally tortured or whatever. Well, I had sort of all three because I had a really bad spinal injury when I was 16. And your spine being sort of like an extension of your brain with your spinal cord being attached to your brain. It was, it really affected me. Plus the band that I was in at the time broke up and that really affected me too. So I had, you know, the mental and emotional trauma of that plus the physical trauma. And, you know, I've had people right into the, my website after reading my book saying that they'd suffered from depersonalization as well. It's, it's an awful feeling. It really is. And nobody on the outside could tell just by looking at your behavior that you were suffering from anything at all. So it's, you know, it can make you very depressed as well. Just the effects of it, you know. So my mom and dad took me to places and like, you know, analysts and psychoanalysts and psychiatrists and all the rest and they would tell me, oh, no, you're depressed. And so it's causing this thing. And I'd say, no, you got the cart before the horse. You know, it's, I'm depressed because I've got this, this condition. I haven't got the condition because I'm depressed. I'm depressed because I've got the condition. And that was it, you know. So I think I go into it in a bit more detail in the book and how it happened and when. But it was an inspiration for a lot of music too. So with bad comes good. Oh, sure. Right. You know, the yin and the yang, right? They say people like Vincent Van Gogh also suffered. And there are people like very artistic people. And there was a movie done with Matthew Perry in it. And it's called numb. And that's a true story about, I think he was like a film director or producer or something in Hollywood that suffered from it. And Matthew Perry plays the part. And in that film, they say it seems to affect artistic types more than, than anything. So. How about any last stories about deal? Did you ever, okay. So there was the initial deal band that you sort of could have been a part of, but later on in his career, did you ever sort of meet up with him and say, Hey, Ronnie, let's do something together. Was there any sort of. Well, in, in the book, I do get the call from, I think it was Wendy Dio I spoke to on the phone. I met up with her in LA and Ronnie's bass player at the time, I don't know if he left or he had already got. Oh yes. Yeah. And so I did a three week tour with Ronnie, but that was in 1998. And I went over and I rehearsed with Ronnie in LA and then in London. And then we did the Scandinavian tour. So there's no magic after that, no magic to, to write together to sort of come over. What a new crazy train for me. Yeah. I, I, I, you know, we did discuss and I discussed it with Wendy about, you know, joining Ronnie, right joining Dio the band. But, you know, it just sort of, I don't know if he got his old bass player back or what happened, but I had kind of fizzled out after that. But, you know, the three week tour was, it was musically enjoyable, but there didn't seem to be an awful lot of camaraderie in the band. It was. It was a low time in the band too. It was a very, it was a low time, you know, it wasn't like a heyday was sort of like things were not going. Yeah. Right. Yeah. A lot of grumbling probably, you know. Yeah. Well, Alan, unless you have another question, I will leave it with this. One last question. I just want to know Bob's still, still collecting jukeboxes. Oh, yes. Yes. Well, I wish I had a really, really good jukebox mechanic here in Australia. I had a couple of guys and they both died. One was only 64 and he, and he had a seizure or something and he died. And then there was another one. He was Swedish and he was very good. And he got cancer and died. So when I was in England, there was lots of really good jukebox mechanics. And in America, they're everywhere. Well, not everywhere, but they're, you know, available. But here it's, it's not, I love the old machines, but the thing is, you know, I bought a wallet for 10, 15 in the 80s, a 1946 machine. So at that point it would have been about, I don't know, 40 years old, but now that same machine is like, you know, 80 years old or whatever. So, you know, the older they get that the more maintenance and work they need or parts replacing, you can still get reissue replacement parts on that, but you need somebody that really knows their stuff and they're not always available. But yes, I love them. Ever since I was a young kid, they fascinated me with, you know, entertainment that's obviously for your ears because they play music, but to watch them, how they, you know, put the record on and they got the change color and there's got bubbles and they're beautiful. I mean, they're a work of art. I love them. I remember in the diners, those little portable ones, remember the diners, you press the buttons. Yeah, they're called wall boxes. Wall boxes. As a kid, I was just putting my money in there and just pressing all the buttons. That's right. All right, that's it. So there you go. The trilogy is complete. For facts sake, pick it up. Bob Daysley. And the introductions by Kelly Rhodes, which is beautiful. Kelly is a great person. Yeah. Yeah, he's a good lad. He's a great, great family. Thank you so much, Bob, unless there's something you want to promote. Also, we should also say it again, this is the best song of the which. Metal Hall of Fame All-Star Charity song. It's on Bandcamp. You could pick it up there. Listen to Bob play a bass. Bob, is there anything else you want to promote? Well, I've just been doing some, some instrumental music with a friend of mine, Rob Grossa here, who was the drummer of the Hoochie-Coochie men when we did the blue stuff with John Lord and and that. But Rob was very helpful for me to do the tribute to Gary Moore album. I did the tribute to Gary Moore album called More Blues for Gary. And the More Blues for Gary spelled M-double-O-R-E. So it was obviously for Gary. And Rob was on some of the tracks and he, and we put it all together and did the editing and together and that. And then we did, he had some instrumental ideas that I began playing on. I turned them into songs. And we've called the new thing, it's just really just me and Rob. There's a couple of, maybe one or two guests on it. There's somebody that does a nice slide solo on one of the tracks. But it's kind of, it's a little bit like, how would I describe it? Pink Floyd plays surfer music. Wow. Pink Floyd goes to the beach. That'll be the name of the album. I've had great comments. The feedback's been brilliant. Everybody I've played any of or two, that's, oh, I love this. One of the tracks is a little bit kind of like in the vein of Fleetwood Macs, early Fleetwood Mac when they did Albatross, you know, with Peter Green and all. It's got that sort of vibe. But that's that sort of stuff, you know, very easy listening, pleasant, and everybody loves that. The upstarts. The upstarts is, and you should hear more about that by sort of early next year, because it's going to be... I really like it. You feel chill, but you want to catch a wave. Yeah. Sort of thing. Some of it's reminiscent of early 60s surfing stuff, but it's got a more mature, evolved vibe of some sort of spacey, trippy, Pink Floyd-y sort of parts in some of them, which is, you know, I really like it. I remember taking a disc of some of the tracks and sitting by the sea one day half. I went from Rob's studio and I just went and sat by the sea and put the disc on just to listen to, you know, by myself just to relax and listen. I thought, wow, we've captured something here. This is good. I like this. I like it. Can't wait to hear it. Do you ever meet Lammy from Motorhead? Have you ever talked about working together? No, well, he was a bass player too, so it couldn't really work. But writing together, you know, like... Oh, I see. Didn't really, you know, we did cross paths. I remember seeing Lammy on one of the shows that I did with Ronnie Dio when we did that Scandinavian tour. And I was on some of those shows and... Yeah. But no, I didn't ever sort of hook up with Lammy that way. All right. Well, thank you so much once again, Bob. Thanks again. We'll talk soon. Yeah, welcome. And thank you for the opportunity to speak and thanks for plugging the book and... It's definitely a must read for anybody who can get their hand. It's a hard to find book, but you can get a hand on it. It's a great book. Amazon, Amazon UK, Amazon Australia, Amazon Canada, Amazon US, they have it. Are you going to read another book? Are there more memories percolating there? You're saying, you know, I've got to get them down. The thing is, usually when I get a new print round of that one, I just add to the epilogue and say, this happened, that happened, this developed, and he died, she died, whatever else. But I don't know. There was somebody suggested doing a book for each of the albums, the biggest ones, like Blizzard of Oz and Dying of a Madman, the recording of, just the technicalities and which is a possibility, I suppose, but I haven't done anything towards that yet. Sounds like a Martin Popoff book, if you ask me. Yeah. Yeah. All right, Bob. Thank you very much, Bob. Thank you and all the best to you both and everyone listening. All right. Stay well. Thank you.