 there's an old saying that says you never get to know a man until you get to know a man. What we do sometimes is we look at folks and it's just it's natural. We look at people from a distance and our natural human inclination is to analyze what we see what we hear and then go at that, right? And so we have our own opinions about Donald Trump, our own opinions about Joe Biden. You name it, we think this or think that about a person having never met him, have never spoke to him. Now some things we do get a chance to judge and talk about such as in our circles, doctor. Personal issues, never. We don't talk about someone's past as though that's an issue. Why? Because as I've said before, every last one of you are worthless just like me. We are five dollars worth of dirt and that's only because of inflation. So none of us have a right to sit and say where that person's past or that person's sin or what that person's done makes him in a worse light. Now, if a person is a believer, we hold them accountable, obviously, but we don't go back five, 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 years. Hey, you see what you did? So we don't do that. But again, doctrine is always fair game. And so anytime that you can talk about doctrine, it makes us sharpen our sales and makes us go back to the scriptures. And so that's fair game. But how we do it also is important. I've said lately of late that I want to be mindful of one because my wife told me to, but also it's just a good thing to make sure that when you speak about someone that you do so as charitable as possible, not always possible. Sometimes it is. And so the Bible says, and I'll put on the screen before I bring on Marcus, but the Bible says this, not my words, God's words. He says, how good it is for brothers and sisters to well together in unity. Of course, you see Marcus in the in the deal. So how good it is for us to well, but Cory, do you mean to tell me that Marcus is a brother? Well, I've said this. I've said this about other people that I have no idea. I might lean one way or the other, but I don't know unless I get a chance to know. And so that being the case, I will treat Marcus like he's a brother. Now, then having a conversation with Marcus, Marcus is he's high spirited. He's energetic, which is, which is a good thing. And you will recall, I said this before, I disagree with some of the doctrinal issues with Marcus. But if I felt like Marcus's doctrine was X, Y, and Z with his energy was set the world on fire, would would would be what we and how I pray for and want his ministry to grow. Amen. So that being the case, we had a conversation early and say, you know what, let's have this conversation instead of being private. Let's have this conversation together before the people so people can kind of see. And so that being the state, let me go ahead and bring on Marcus. Marcus, how you doing, brother? I'm doing great. Just a pleasure that you have me on, man of God. I appreciate it. Well, good. And by the way, they said I called him brother. So now I'm going to get, I'm going to get excoriated. But wait a minute, Cory, wait a minute, Cory, because I want to go ahead and jump into some things upfront. Cory called him a brother. And that can't be the case because Marcus is a denier of the trinity. Now, you all know me. I am a dog, a stickler when it comes to the scriptures. And so for me to vouch for something now, obviously, I don't, I'm not, I'm not betting my, my life on whether someone is saving. I know a couple people that I know that I say me. I pretty much believe that my wife and children, other than that, the rest of you, yeah, who's I'm kidding. But the rest of you guys have no idea. You might be wonderful people in chats and then at home, you might be torturing little puppies. Who knows? So I have to take you at your word. But there are some document issues that separate us, right? So the question is, does Marcus and let's just, and this is what I did with Marcus. I said, Marcus, I'm going to bless you. I'm going to do you one favor because I believe this. Listening to him and his discussion about the identity of Christ, I'm of the opinion. Now, maybe I misheard him. So am I asking him to get in front of you guys so that we can go ahead and put this issue to side, this issue about the Trinity, whether you use the word Trinity or not. Again, it's not a biblical word, but then again, there's a lot of words we use, every English word, none of us in the Bible. But so I asked Marcus these questions. I'm going to ask Marcus this now and that'll be kind of our jumping point. Marcus, how you asked, answered this question this morning, you believe Jesus is God, right? Yes, sir. You believe that Jesus is the Lord? Yes, sir. And you believe the Lord is God, according to Deuteronomy 4, 35, 39? Yes, sir. And we have one Lord, one God? Yes, sir, Ephesians 4. Yes, sir. And then God says that there is no other Lord and no other Savior besides him. And you agree with that, right? Yes, sir. And so if Jesus is the Lord and you must confess that Jesus is the Lord for salvation, you were in agreement with that, right? Yes, sir. You believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct? Yes, sir. The only thing I would say about that is, I think that's where the confusion comes. And you already said that in the beginning of the video, the words that people use to describe the distinction, sometimes is what causes people to argue, but there's clearly a distinction. You know, in the way that I think about it is, you know, Adam was made in the image of God. So I have my flesh, I have my spirit, I have my soul. There's clearly a distinction between how my flesh operates from my soul and my spirit, but it's still me. So that's how I think about it. And so one of the things that I said to Marcus earlier, and I said this to you guys, and so it's not like that I'm just saying this just to Marcus, I said it to you guys, I said to myself, I don't care who you are, whenever we try to put it in words and as many words we try to clarify, as often as we try to give an analogy, then the analogy inevitably is going to fall apart. You cannot give a human or earthly analogy to the Trinity. But as long as Marcus believes that they are distinct, yet at the same time equal and the same, how does that even make sense? How does that, it doesn't make sense. And it's not supposed to make sense. You're a human being with a flawed human mind trying to explain all we do is we accept it. So for the seven-year-old, the eight-year-old, the 15-year-old, or anyone that just gave their life or placed their faith in Christ, they can't explain the Trinity, just like nobody on the planet can adequately explain the Trinity. So I think that is an issue worth dealing with. I think though for me to to you, Marcus, sometimes we can say something and we have to come back to it. You know what, I probably should, I could have worded it differently or said it some other sort of way. There are, there have been, when you made the statement about he was a thought, well that sent everybody, you know, wait a whole, wait a minute, Marcus is going to help. But then I started listening to other times when you spoke about God, about Jesus. Like, okay, well that sounds good. That right here, we got to fix that, but that sounds good. And so it's possible a person can say something in an incorrect fashion. But I think what happens is, you tell me if I'm, if I'm wrong, you say something, people jump on you. The natural tendency for you or anyone else is to be defensive, right? And then you get defensive and then it's more fuel for the folks that don't like Marcus to see, see, see, look at his pride and so forth. I've done that. So would you, would you think that that's a fair assessment? Most definitely. And then I'm pretty sure you know that when we have these like deeper conversations on a deeper level, I think that people, you know, the Bible says greatest mystery of godliness. And so I'm glad you brought that up early in the video. When I was talking about, you know, was Jesus a thought? That's, it wasn't that I was saying that Jesus was a thought because the argument always comes down to, you know, people want to know, well, what are we going to see in heaven? To me personally, I don't believe that's a heaven or hell issue. But I was bringing up how the Bible says that Jesus was in the bosom of the Father, you know, and the word became flesh. So that was where that came from. But, you know, I've always believed that Jesus is God. I've never not believed that. And so really that was what that, where that came from, that conversation we were getting into, okay, well, what are we going to see when we get to heaven? You know, are we going to see, you know, three individuals, three consciousnesses, three spirits? Is there just going to be one on the throne? Is there going to be one on the throne and one seated at the right hand? You know, that's, that's where it came from. But people took the clip and, you know, they didn't take the context of it. Yeah. I think, again, it is easily one of the more difficult topics to cover to speak about his deity. Because again, from us, our standpoint is strange. And so now here's what I've said, that a person can struggle with his identity as long as they believe that Jesus is God. John 8, 24 says that unless you don't believe that I am the I am, and use the Greek echo in me, unless you don't believe that, then you will die in your sins. And then you must confess that Jesus is the Lord. There's one Lord. So everyone understands, I understand we were 2000 years almost removed from the verses. And so the Lord might take on or has been taken on a different kind of connotation. But if you believe that, that he is the Lord, he is God outside of that. I mean, other than that, you're saved. You can be saved. Denying that, according to Jesus, you cannot be according to Paul and Romans, you cannot be. And so it seems to be that this is where Marcus is. And so now one last question, I didn't quite cover that, but you believe that he's always existed. He's eternal, right? Yes, the Bible says, and that's where that came from, right? So if the Bible says that Jesus was in the bosom of the Father, we were trying to explore what does that mean? But yes, I believe that Jesus has always existed. And that's where they say the word became flesh. So was it a thing where the Father released Jesus out of his bosom? It wasn't a question of whether or not Jesus was God. It was just one of those things where when you dive deep into it, my attitude is we don't really know for certain. We don't have God completely figured out. And it bothers me when people try to act like they know everything. So then that's where the conversation goes. Well, when we get to heaven, what are we going to see? And I don't think it's a heaven or hell issue, but that's where the confusion came. But yes, Jesus has always been God. He's eternal. Yeah, he wasn't. I don't believe he was created. Matter of fact, we know Isaiah 40 Ephesians 111. He's the one that sits on the circle of earth. He's the creator. So yeah, it's just, I think people got to just be careful with the internet and taking different clips. Something that we talked about. And I think, one, I think it's important. One, we talked about how bad the internet is. Marcus, and like I said personally, I love it. The reason is because you get to one, see everyone's true self. Let me just borrow somebody. Let's say, let me use my moderator, Monkey Moves. We don't see Monkey Moves face. Yes, this is live, JP. We don't see Monkey Moves face. And so Monkey Moves, if he wanted to, could just spout out all sorts of things and we don't know anything. We don't know his face. We don't know anything. We don't know anything about him. We don't know any, I'm sorry guys. I'm sorry. I'm having a conversation with my wife at the same time. We don't know anything about him. And so he can say and do things and we're like, huh? And there's no accountability, but you still get to see that person, but God ultimately sees him. I'm thankful for the internet, YouTube and so forth, even for the slime for this reason, because it makes a person like myself or makes a person like Marcus or anyone else. One, it's going to show us who we are. And then two, it's going to make us go back and search the scriptures because I don't know how much Holy Spirit or how field or how moved by the spirit Marcus is. I don't know how moved by the spirit Tyra or Cephas is. I don't, I have no idea. You can tell me one thing. I don't know. I'm not with you guys. But what I do know is a couple things. One, your use of the scriptures, the text, because we have the exact same thing in common, those same 66 books. And then two, what you end up doing with the text. And so I'm grateful for that. But let me ask you this question. Do you, do you think, and I have to, but do you think there have been some times where maybe some of the reactions that you've got, because yeah, you have, what is it, 700 something thousand subscribers on YouTube, however many you got on? Are you are you are you banned on Facebook? On Facebook a couple years ago, they, you know, I have almost a million followers on there. That's where my ministry really started was a Facebook and while I was in South Korea, it blew up. And to be honest, I would like to say this to be fair, you know, to everybody, you know, who's probably known of me for a while. You know, when I first started doing videos on Facebook, I was going through some of just the hardest, you know, trials and storms of my life. And the bottom line is, Jesus changed my life. And without Jesus, I probably would have committed suicide. I was wrestling with suicide. And I knew, you know, some people know my testimony, I got in a shootout, I was at the club and stuff like that. And long story short, like, I knew that Jesus was the only reason I was still alive. And I just wanted to share that with people. And I've always been rejected. I've never been in like the cool kids club, a church, part of it was, you know, my mom's a white woman for black kids, we're down south. And then, you know, we came to Chicago and it was like, you know, just weird things. So I knew, like when I make these videos, my intent was there's somebody out there like me, that they need to know that Jesus is the answer that Jesus can help them no matter like how much they had messed up. I was going through, you know, marital problems. I went to Iraq, went to Afghanistan, and it was just, it was really depressing. And it was like, you could just continue to be out there fornicating and committing adultery or doing whatever are turned to Jesus. And I turned to Jesus and my life changed. And it got better. And so when I started making videos on Facebook, that's it. I just wanted to share that with people. And out of nowhere, it blew up. I didn't ask for it to blow up. And the problem came, I guess, somewhere along the line. It was like, people wanted to know, well, where does this guy come from? And so they started asking, you know, what, what is his church background? What the nomination? And then I said, oh, you know, I grew up in a Pentecostal church. And then man, people just, oh, you know, heresy and this, this. And I was a little bit more immature back then. I still got room to grow right now. But I got on the defensive and I got on the defensive emotionally. So when people started, you know, attacking like, oh, well, you're not valid. And it was like, I felt like I took it personal because it felt like you were trying to tell me that my encounter that I had with Jesus wasn't real because it didn't have the right label or the label that you approve of. And that's why to this day, and I'm not going to be long-winded, I just ended with this. That's why to this day, I don't do labels. You know, people hear me say, well, that's a manmade word. It's not in the Bible. I've seen people who use the right words and then they're not living right. I've seen people who critiqued me and said I was this and said I was that. And then come to find out, you know, they're doing drugs, they're sleeping around. And so to me, it's more about the character. It's more about the fruit. And that's just why I move the way that I do to this day. That's why I don't subscribe to like Pentecostal Baptist, you know, when people ask what kind of church it is, we just say we believe the Bible from the back to the front. And I try to leave it at that. And I will say, man of God, somebody asked something about, does Marcus Rogers believe that the Holy Spirit is, I think, like a distinct person? And that's always like a big thing that comes up. And I think this is another area of controversy with me where people, you know, I believe that the Bible says there's one body, there's one spirit, John 4 that God is spirit. And Joe, he says, I'll pour out my spirit upon all flesh. So to me, you know, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God. Like that's how I mean, obviously the Holy Spirit is God. And people want to call the Holy Spirit a person that's fine, you know, personality, whatever, I'm not going to argue about it. But to me, that it's just that simple, like the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God. Like when he says I'll pour out my spirit upon all flesh, it's exactly that. But that's another area of controversy. Like, I don't I don't go around saying the Holy Spirit of Person. I mean, obviously, I believe the Holy Spirit has a personality that Holy Spirit can talk to you. I just believe it's just the spirit of God, you know, so that's another area, maybe we need more clarity on. I don't think that's like a heaven or hell issue. I believe there's a distinction obviously between the three. Obviously, the Holy Spirit wasn't crucified on the cross as the sun was, you know, but to me, the Holy Spirit is just God's Holy Spirit. And I don't know if people agree with that, or they don't agree with that, or if they believe like that's what the other argument when the Bible says God is spirit. Some people believe that this is why I don't do words like, because everybody who believes in the Trinity doesn't agree when they describe this stuff. So when it says God is a spirit, some people believe there's God, the Father, the Spirit in heaven, and then the Holy Spirit like there's two spirits. I just believe there's one spirit like the Bible says. And I'm and if we are a child of God, you're filled with that one spirit, which is the Holy Spirit. So I don't know if I didn't explain that well, but you know, you okay, you believe that that that very that very Holy Spirit is God as well, right? Right, yes. Okay. Again, this is one of the things. Let me just let me let me back up. One of the things that I used to kind of defend and this was I was I was younger. I was probably maybe 33, 34, 32. And it was something where my mentor, my pastor, my mentor, he was also a seminary professor, would just try to encourage me to to go to seminary. He would encourage me to do more studying. He thought that I had a good handle. But so because he told me that I was so I'm good then, you know, I thought that, you know, when someone compliments you, you feel like you're all right, as though you've made it. Because in your position, you're going to get compliments, people going to patch on the back, people want to say, Hey, man, that was fire. That was wonderful. And half the folks that say they don't even know their own Bible. So you're getting compliments about how great you are or how wonderful you are from folks who they themselves don't know. And so I would take that. But he would say, you need to learn, you need to learn, you need to learn. Well, after going to prison, I had no choice. I had time. And so the benefit of doing time was I had time. And so I would study and I saw the benefit and how to because one of the things he would tell me, it helps you to kind of one defend your position, but then also how to articulate your position because we don't just gain knowledge just for the sake of, yeah, see, I got that. I know, I know the answer. No, the whole point of getting whatever we get is to articulate to to share. We want to love the word so much that we learn it and then in turn live it, which is by the way, a little mantra here. So I think, and this is what I've said to Marcus, I'll say again to him in front of everyone else. Well, I think that there are little things that maybe Marcus might say something that, okay, wait a second, that may have left the scratch in our head. Okay, I was with you. Then you made me scratch my head. Okay, now I'm with you again. Now, wait a second. And so this is where, because Marcus, even though he's not 20, he's still he's still relatively young. And so to me, this is one of those areas where two things would be, I think this would be beneficial for all the younger people either on YouTube or in ministry. Period. I say everyone ought to do this. This used to be a thing that we used to do. One, make sure that you find somebody older in the faith that has some wisdom, not necessarily me, but I'm just not just anybody. There's some wise men out there who know how to kind of move slow. All right, hold on. Let's take our time. I needed that. An older, one of our older elders told me, Corey, don't defend yourself. Stop defending yourself. And I was quick to, you said something about me. I was Johnny on the spot to to grab you by the neck or to show you where I'm right or wrong. He said, stop defending yourself. You know, you don't look good. You never look good defending yourself. Let somebody else defend you, let God defend you. And if God don't want to defend you, well, then you don't need defending or maybe he needs you to go through it. But then also make sure that you are going through the word being challenged by people who disagree or might agree, but make you he would ask me questions. Did Jesus die on the cross? Sure he did. Well, give me the passages. Why then, then not only did he die on the cross. Why did he die on the cross? Why was it necessary that he die in that fashion? Why was it necessary that blood be shit? Why couldn't he have just, you know, just, I don't know, drowned? What was the whole point? What was the purpose of this blood? What was he saying in the Old Testament? How do we see this showing up now and being able to defend those things? Not just for the sake of defending it, but there's other people. And so it helps with buttoning up arguments such as, I don't mean arguments like debates, fights, but I'm some discussions, buttoning up those discussions as relates to the Trinity, button up discussions as relates to the atonement and salvation, buttoning up discussions as it relates to spiritual gifts and so forth. How do these things work? Why do we have spiritual gifts? Why were they promised all those things? And so it helps. And so the point is, I would think that Marcus would, that you would benefit because you're out. I don't know. It seems as though you're out there doing the best you can. Matter of fact, I've even heard you say that before. I've literally heard you say, I'm doing the best I can. I'm doing the best I can by God and so forth. It's like, okay, well, you know what? I can get with that. I can get with that because you're not the only person. You ain't the only person that's been in ministry and said some things that you wish you wouldn't have said or been excrued for saying something. You're not the only one. You won't be the only one. I give you, I give you a billion points for just saying, you know what? I'm willing to be accountable to anybody. And I'm willing to talk to somebody like me because a lot of folks aren't trying to talk to me, Marcus, which is fine, which is fine. But here you are. They have something to hide. I mean, I think that anybody that loves the truth will never shy away from these kinds of conversations. And I do see that there's a couple people, you know, in the comments saying they still don't understand my views. And I think one of the problems, men of God, is I ask questions that it's like there that sometimes it's questions that people haven't heard asked before. So the whole thing, right, where we're talking about the Holy Spirit, where God says, I'll pour out my spirit upon all flesh and, you know, God is spirit. So that's just a question that when you get like, if you've ever done and I'm sure I feel, I don't want to say your first name like that because you are my elder. Listen, I'm not a apostle, prophet, doctor, but I'm Corey. I mean, you're still my elder. So I didn't want to just say your name like we're like we're boys. I'm big on that with my kids. But the thing is, I've been doing this so long. And, you know, what I wanted to say earlier is when people started coming and like, you know, telling me I was this and I was that I know I love the Lord. I know my life has changed. Like, I'm not out there living like the world. I'm not fornicating no more. I'm pointing people to Jesus. I preach repentance, you know, and all these things. And maybe put a note in this, I don't preach a works based salvation, even though people say I do. I don't believe in a works based salvation. I just want to say that. But the bottom line is that I think that there's greatest the mystery of godliness. So when you have people who kind of debate scripture and sit together, we get to this point where there are certain questions that are generally not talked about. And I think that's where like a lot of disagreements come. So, you know, that verse is a perfect example when when he says, I'll pour out my spirit upon all flesh. And I say, well, to me, the Holy Spirit is just God's spirit. You know, people seem to take issue with that because, you know, is it like, is there two spirits? Is there a separate spirit like God, the spirit, and then Holy Spirit, the spirit. And that's that's just the question that comes up when we dive deep into, you know, these debates. And sometimes people don't really have an answer. You probably got an explanation. But you know, for the most part, when I've had these conversations, it's like, to me, men of God, God didn't ask anybody to be a Baptist. He didn't ask anybody to be a Pentecostal. He didn't ask anybody to be a Trinitarian. Like men made these words and that's fine. That's cool. Right. But to be saved, we're to believe on Jesus. And Jesus said, you're my disciple, if you continue on my words. So it's like, you got all these other words that we're using to try to explain and things like that. And I get it. And I understand it. But I think sometimes we, I guess the issue for me is everybody that uses these words, whether it's on even on the oneness side, they don't all agree when they like, when you hear some people on the oneness side explain what they believe, it's like that's similar to what I've heard some of these Trinitarian brothers say. And so that's why I don't do the labels or the names. I feel like you got to test the spirit, test the Bible knowledge. Obviously, if they're talking like Jehovah witnesses, and that the Mormons and stuff like that, that's way off base. But fundamentally, what is important that Jesus is the only way to the Father and Jesus is the way to be saved and Jesus died for our sins. And I think if someone believes that I can work with them. You know, and I kind of leave it there. So I got people at my church that they believe kind of maybe on both sides of it. You know, and the important thing is to me, I wish that we could get the body to come together. And like, I would never go in nobody's church and argue this stuff or debate. Like I'm just going to give the people Jesus and let them work out their own salvation with fear and trembling, you know, study for your study for your show. Now here's here's why I step in. Yes, sir. For let's say Bobby or Joe or Mary or Sue, who's just an average lay person. That's fine. But for you, it's not. Now, I don't hold to any particular titles. As a matter of fact, we talked about this several times on this channel that I'm not of Paul. I'm not of Apollos. I'm not of serious. I'm not Calvinist. I'm not provisionist. I'm not Armenian. I'm not dispensations. I'm not. But now do I have a leaning one way? Sure. But for you, the requirements are high because no one came one night and put a gun to Marcus Rogers head and said, listen, you better go be a pastor. You better go. No one did that. And as a matter of fact, let me just pull this up because this is what do I even have it up? The scripture tells us I don't have it. I'll just repeat it. But the pot. Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do. I've got it somewhere right here. I'll find it somewhere if I don't have it. But there it is. Qualifications says it's a trustworthy statement. If a man aspires to be the overseer, it is a fine working desire. Now, fortunately, unfortunately, more and more people come out today saying that, you know, certain words like pastor is not in the Bible. And I and every time I reach out to these folks, they get quiet and I'll just run down the list. Yes, it is. This word overseer, this word, Episcopos, this word, Presbyteria, this word for shepherd is the same word. And Paul says that we ought to treat them in such a way, giving oversight and leadership to the flock that God has purchased with his blood. And so he says, no one. And so my point here, one, we've got to defend the text and you being a pastor or anyone else, you desired that. No one, again, no one said, hey, Marcus, leave the army, do this, do that, or I'm going to shoot you. No. So you did that, which is fine. He says it's a fine work. But he says it must be above reproach. Doesn't mean that he hadn't seen and have a pass because if that's the case, then nobody would be the husband of one wife. So will he check on that the temperate part? This is where Marcus has to say, OK, you know what, I'm not going to, I'm not coming back because everybody has something that they're going to say to you about you. Yes. Somebody's going to say something. They're going to talk about you. They're going to put horns on your head. Six, six, six, call your all sorts of names, call your mother in all sorts of names. You know what you do? Put that there. Why? Because I'm not a boy anymore. I'm a grown man. And so I expect people to say some things. I expect if I'm in a public sector, public square, folks are going to say something. And you do that because, again, as Jesus says, if they said it about him, they're going to say it about Marcus. So if Marcus is really on the Jesus train, they're going to talk about you and they have a right to and you should expect, as a matter of fact, you should enjoy it because he says, blessed are they that when they revile and persecute you for my sake, say all sorts of things for my sake. So that's a good thing. Take it as a badge of honor. If I got as the comedian said, if I got 10 haters, I need 10 more. If I got 20, if I'm doing it for the Lord, now if I'm out here doing my own thing, I deserve whatever comes. And so you have to be one above approach. You cannot be, you have to be, you cannot go back and forth. If someone has a doctrine issue or statement of question, whether you address that, I'll address doctrine questions and statements all the time, prudent, respectable. Our job is to present ourselves as respectable as pop. Obviously that everybody's going to respect you. They didn't all respect Jesus, but to the point that you can, hospitable, here it is, able to teach. And so what Marcus has to make sure that he's doing is though he doesn't like those labels, Marcus better be able to explain those labels, Marcus better be able to walk through those scriptures. And guess what? Marcus is not expected to know everything about the Bible, but Marcus is expected to be how to go and research and stuff, reach out to other folks. Hey, what do you think about this? I do it. I call up, what do you think about this? How does this say to you? What does this ring you? Look up other commentaries and so forth. Look what other people who are in the world, what they're saying. And so therefore I want to know as much why, so that I might be, I've changed my tone and my doctrine on so many different things. I've changed, listen, y'all won't believe how hardheaded I was when it was tongue, when it came to tongues and eternal security. I have changed and it was hard. They took me kicking and screaming. I was ready to fight. I was ready to leave the church. You guys don't know the word. Y'all ain't saved and all that stuff. And so all right, here's the word. This, what this word means, all this thing. So someone says, am I, am I, am I conforming or comforting a heretic? This is what we got to do guys. Now here's one, two things. One, two things Marcus, either you are a heretic or you're not. Let's go with the, you're not a heretic. Let's go with the, I'm not a false teacher. If someone, and if you go, if you guys go and check the chats, whether it's the main channel, this channel or the smaller channel, when I respond to a comment, most cases it's someone with a negative response. And they'll call me all sorts of things. So if I'm not, I don't think I am. The question for you Marcus, for me and everyone else, why are they saying so? They might be nuts. They might be, okay, we're fine. Some folks you just can't talk to. You can't, but what about those that really, truly think that because they're on YouTube, they're hearing all sorts of things. Hmm, why? I told Marcus, I said, none of us ever got on YouTube and said, let's call up everybody else. Let's call up everybody else and let's all make a video on Marcus or let's get on YouTube. Let's all make a video about this person or that person. Sometimes we are responsible for what we put out and how people take it. They may have taken the wrong way because I gave it the wrong way or I gave them the impression or I could have said it better. So therefore it is, it is up to Marcus to prove that he's not saying something that's heretical or he's not saying something false. Why he, you know, his, his homework, my wife's a teacher. And so in math, y'all remember, you have to show your work. You don't just go to the back of the book and look at what the answer is. You show your work. And so because Marcus has chosen to be in a position that has a high degree of responsibility, then he doesn't get to make excuses. When you were in, were we in the army? Yes, sir. So you had a commander, you had, you had supervisors over you and yeah, the, the, the, the private, the E1, the E2, they can say some stuff and get passed and get, and be okay. But Sergeant Kent, Lieutenant Kent, right? The higher you go up, the more responsibility there is, and there is no buck to pass. And so the same thing has to be done. The same thing has to be done with someone like you. The same thing with everyone else. There is a, let me just, let me go, let me go full screen. There is a high degree of responsibility. If someone says something bad about it, it comes with the territory. If I'm getting beat up at night unjustly, it comes with it. If I'm getting beat up and it's justified, I deal with it. That's how, that's how it is. And so I've got to be a man of God. I've, someone said, I've called you a heretic and no, I haven't called him a heretic. As a matter of fact, Marcus, let me back up for a second. Marcus was the one that, that actually reached out to me. I just happened to go through some comments and I saw Marcus and he, it was on a video. I'm like, what, what video was that? So I went back and watched that video and I said some things at Marcus, but I thought I saw some things that was also, you know, kind of, kind of nice towards Marcus, probably the whole thing. But did I call, I don't know, did I call you a heretic in that video? Not that, not that I know of, you know what I'm saying? And the reason I honestly that I came to your, to your channel anyway is because I just, you know, I said, I know he's a real man of God. You know what I'm saying? We might not agree on everything. And one thing that you said that was so key and I give it right back to you. But, you know, I've had to grow, you know, I've been doing this for a long time. I was preaching on the internet before it was like a popular thing to do. And there's some things that, you know, as you learn, you grow. And so I think people throw around that, that heretic term too easy. The way I stand on it is, is the person doing it out of ignorance? Are they are, are they intentionally trying to deceive people? Like, are they waking up? Like, you know what? I'm a wolf. I want to deceive people. I want to leave people to hell. I believe that there's a lot of people that they start off right. And as they grow, whether it is an influence to whom much is given, much is required. And then people start doing it for the money. They start doing it for the wrong reasons. You know, and even Jesus, when the disciples were complaining, they said, those guys over there are casting out devils, but they're not with us. He said, leave them alone. You know, if they're not against us, they're for us. So to me, I guess the thing is, where do we draw the line? And I had to reevaluate this. Where do we draw the line on what is a heaven or hell issue? And so a lot of people, they'll say, well, you know, if you don't believe in the Trinity, or if you don't, if you're not a Pentecostal, if you're not a Baptist, then you're going to hell. But I mean, where is the, where is the Bible for that? Because the requirement to be saved is to be born again. And you know, we believe in Jesus, right? And I think another problem is people, why there's such bad theology out there, faith coming by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. So that's another thing I want to hit on. I don't believe in a works-based salvation, but I do believe that, that faith without works is dead because you have these people like, you know, Cardi B and these artists and even Pete Diddy and I seen usher the other day, they say, Hey, I'm a man of God, I believe in Jesus, right? But if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, to me, faith means that I'm looking at the Bible and I believe what it says. And if I believe what it says, I'm going to follow what it says to the best of my ability. Now here's where it gets crazy. The Bible says, if you've broken one of these, you've broken all of them. So we all have fallen short in some area. I've Peter, there was arguments, there was debates about things, you know, they were arguing about the food and stuff. So somebody could say, Peter, at this point, before you got this revelation, you were teaching something that was heretical. Paul had to go, you know, and correct him. If it was up to me, I think all these men of God from different camps, we should come together, sit at a table, have these discussions, you know what I'm saying? And I think it can't be like, Oh, well, I disagree with you. So you're going to hell. You're heretical because Peter and Paul, they disagreed on some things. So what is the heaven and hell issue? I think that's where the fine line is. And I think a lot of people, their mindset is, if you don't believe like me, think like me, especially when we're mixing in these man-made words, then automatically like, you know, you're going to hell. And I just think that's very dangerous. And it can also be kind of like dishonorable. So I'm all for like having these conversations. And like I told you before, like, if there's anything you say on this, this live, that even if I don't agree with it, this is the God honest truth. It was the same with Alan Parr. It was the same when I talked to Ruslan. It's the same when I talk to my mom. I'm going to get on my knees right here as soon as this live is done. And I'm going to say, Lord, am I missing it? Am I wrong? And that's why I said, when I first started on Facebook and people started coming at me, you know, false doctrine, I have changed the way that I explained some things because I said, okay, I understand that. And I understand that perspective. But if you never have that conversation, then you can't like many people run around saying he doesn't believe Jesus is God based off a clip. But now that they've heard the context, it's like, Oh, okay, I understand, you know, why that was even a conversation. And so I think like if we were, if people weren't so clicked up and arrogant and just think everything that they believe and know is right, we could have these conversations and it would be beneficial to the body. You know, so far this conversation has been a blessing to me. Like you're very honorable. You're very patient. You know, you're not coming with a lot of accusations. We're just having a conversation. And I, I think that's beautiful. And I think that's how it's supposed to be. It is, it is. I, I, and I'll be honest, all of us get into this, we, you know, we get into and really depends on the time of the day, the day, the week, what have you, depending on what's going on, we might see something like, you know what, I'm, you know, I'm sort of semi quasi triggered. Let me just say something. And I might say it the wrong way. I said it the other day to everyone that I've ever said something in a, in an uncharitable, charitable fashion and didn't have it coming. I spoke out of turn or incorrectly and I got a fashion. Hey, I apologize because my, my intention is not to offend for the sake of offend. I don't want to just do the, you have to be some sort of a kid to always want to just do the name calling thing and think that, you know, that, that's okay. Because at some point in time, your speech should match your age and your speech should also match where you are. Someone said, well, well, me treating, what to say? I give young people a pass. Someone says, Corey is explaining that young people get a pass for false teaching. No, I don't, no one gets a pass for false teaching. However, I'm not sure if this is a man or a woman, but does any of you all, do any of you all have children that are saved? Do you all have grandchildren that might be saved? Maybe you got an eight or nine and 10 year old, a 15 year old or 20 year old that's saved, that place of faith in Christ? And you give them the mic or you ask them to explain Christ to somebody because it doesn't matter if you're giving a false teaching on YouTube or in the classroom, it's a false teaching. Do we hold them to that standard? No, we don't. Now, there's two things that I hold you accountable to and I treat you differently. I told this to Marcus. I'll say this to you guys. One year age, I treat a 20 year old differently than I treat a 40 year old differently than I treat a 50 year old and a 60 year old. If you ever want to see me really get on someone, now I'll talk to the 20 year old and 30 year old. My oldest child is, what is Britney? She's 30 something. I don't know what she is. And I've got grandchildren, but let me talk to a 50 year old. See, I don't, I don't, I'll get in the face of a 50 year old because you know better and I'm going to make you earn what you say because you should know better. If you, because you should know better, that's how it is. Now, I treat you with respect, but that's how it is. Now, if you're a pastor, I expect more, just like I expect more from Christians than I do non-Christians and for pastors than I do non-passers. That's just how it is. I don't have some of these folks were raised that that's how it's always been. I don't treat, I wouldn't talk to someone's grandmother the same way that I would talk to someone, someone's grandchild. And I speak to you because I feel like you should be able to hand I'm not going to speak to you in a disrespectful fashion, but I expect that a 30 year old, you've got, how many you all, you don't, you don't know that she had markers, you haven't been there, but someone that's 50, how many y'all are 50 in the chats or 60 year older? And then Marcus, what do you, what do you say you 36? Yes sir. So how many y'all remember 36? What, what were you now at 36? What was I doing? I was doing time because I was a knucklehead, but I would sign me up to go back to 36 or, well, not me because I was in prison, but before then sign me up to go back to my 30s. Sign me up to go back to when I could just, you know, because you got time to fix stuff, but at 50 and you mess up, it hurts a whole lot more. And so, yeah, I treat, I'm going to treat Marcus and, and, and the Isaiah Sadavars of the world or the, let's, who are some young, some young folks that are out there? I think, I think he said, Vlad is in the 30s, but these 30 year olds that are out there speaking, K Dubb, he's in his 30s, I would treat him differently. Now Jason, he's old and bald. And so I'm going to treat him differently than I would someone who is 30. It's just how it is. How you guys don't get that. I don't understand. And so yes, I will treat him differently. Now as a pastor, he's got responsibilities irrespective of his age, because the Bible says, let not meaning you be teachers, because whether you're 30 or 40 or 50, there is a stricter condemnation. JP, JP says, I say, I've said some stuff not publicly about JP, but JP, I've said JP is young. I'm going to treat him like he's young. Why would I do that? I don't, I don't, I'm not going to fight with someone who's the same age as my children. I'm not sunning them or anything like that, but there's a, there's a different level. Someone who's older. I'm going to talk to them like, Hey, listen, we 50, we 60, we set, let's, let's talk about it. But as a pastor, the responsibility for Marcus Rogers or anyone else is that you've got to handle the text. Paul says, I don't want you to exceed from what is written. And sometimes we do. Let me give you an example. It's not a big deal, but some of you said, and I can promise you Marcus, most pastors won't get this. That passage that you quoted in Romans 10, Romans 10, 17, where it says faith comes by hearing and hearing. Most folks are going to say that that's, yeah, keep hearing and keep hearing and keep hearing. The problem is that's not what that word is. That word is a noun in Sacoae, which means the report, faith comes by the report. And Paul is speaking that point to, to about the Jews that, that someone's got to give these Jews the gospel. It's the report as Paul said earlier, the gospel that he's not ashamed of because it's the power of God unto salvation. And so they're almost connected in the same way we think, but it's not an overall just keep hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing, no, it's power that emanates from that actual report. And we need to give them the report, meaning we've got to give them the text the way it says. Cause all we got, all Marcus has, all I got in common is that, is that Bible. And so we've got to treat that Bible like it is of utmost paramount. Why? Because what is Paul said? Now, Paul does us, does a solid Marcus, someone like yourself, someone like a pastor, trade, who's in the audience, other folks, if you are a pastor, well, Paul's got some letters that's written just for the pastors. And he says in 2 Timothy, I don't know if y'all can see that, be diligent to present yourself approved to who, to God as a workman who is not ashamed to accurately handle the word of truth. That's all we got. That's our, that's our weapon of choice. I'm you, you're in Chicago. I don't know if you, I know you said you start off in the South and move to Chicago. So I'm going to imagine you're probably a Bulls fan. Could you imagine Michael Jordan never, ever practicing with the basketball, just showing up at game time? That's what a lot of pastors do, show up without actually working through the text and making somebody, make someone make you struggle. What does this mean, Corey? You said this and this doesn't make sense. Let me go back and look, that's all I got. That's all I got. I've said this to other people that I spoke to. If I can't get this right, I need to sit down. Now I can fix how I say something. I can change that. If I said it the wrong way, y'all, I apologize. Let me correct it. This is what I meant. It's okay with that. Paul was not perfect. Peter was not perfect. John was not perfect. The only person perfect that we know of is Jesus. So I expect Marcus to mess up. I expect Corey to mess up, but it's our humility and our desire to dwell as brothers, because guess what we are part of? If Marcus is safe and if I'm safe, we're part of the same team. So I'm not going to be part of the armed forces and decide, you know what, let me drop a bomb, let me be in the air force and drop a bomb on some Marines. It's interesting about that, man of God. This is one thing that I always found interesting. Like I see a lot of guys that maybe they don't agree with me on everything, but clearly like the Holy Spirit is telling them, you know, when it comes to like things that are going on in the world and some of the world issues, I'll see some of the videos and it's like we're making videos about the same things pretty much from the same perspective, whether it's, you know, Mike Todd, whether it's this one or it's that one. And I said, it's crazy to me. This is really where my heart is. I'm not big on, like I said, pushing any kind of denominational stuff. I'm big on, hey, whatever's in the Bible, that's what we should believe from front to back. I believe everything in the Bible from front to back. But how did, you know, to have some kind of unity? Obviously, we can't just have unity with anyone, but I know for a fact, there's people that don't agree with each other that are genuinely, you know, men of God, women of God. And so how can we come together just to give the people Jesus? I mean, the Bible says to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. The Bible says that God is going to judge every idol word. So to me, you know, you have to have the fear of God with every YouTube video, with everything that we preach, with everything that we teach, we're going to have to give an account. We're going to have to stand before God and give an account. And I think a lot of times it's like people just want to put you in these, like I always say manmade words, religious boxes, Baptist, Pentecostal, all that kind of stuff. And I've seen people like be in the box because they're saying the right words, but then they're not living what the Bible says and you're living on the down low, you're living undercover. And that's why I just, it's not that I'm just trying to like be like some kind of rebel or anything, but I've been around so many different types of church people. I think that if people saw the messages and the inboxes and the things that I've seen happen behind the scenes of Christianity, like with the people who have the right terminology and the lies and just the fake stuff going on, I think they would give me a little more grace. And one thing that you said that is definitely true and I've been praying about this is I need healing. And I've been praying about that constantly. I've been rejected my whole life. I've been rejected in church my whole life. You want to call it the one this Pentecostal people? They never stood with me and supported me. I've kind of been like by myself, just kind of just, you know, me and God. And that's fine. I know that I love the Lord, but it did hurt me. You know what I'm saying? Like think about it. Think about it from this perspective. If I really do love the Lord, right? If I really, really do, and I'm really trying to the best of my ability and people are just coming and trying to discredit and disqualify, I'm still human. You know what I'm saying? Like I want the brotherhood. I want us to come together and have powerful moves of God. And I've seen it done. I've seen brothers come together who might not agree on everything. And we know like the goal here is to give people Jesus. And I've seen like powerful services and lives change. And it's like people people act like they never got it wrong. Like to me, anybody who says they've read the Bible and they've never had to change their perspective or change the way they look at something like when we go from faith to faith or revelation to revelation, that means at some point maybe some of their beliefs was how you would say that word heretical, you know? But then God gave you a better understanding and you grew. And so to me, like I said, it goes back to, you know, you got to have grace for people. You don't know what they've been through where they came from. And are they doing it with the intent? Like they woke up this morning and said, I want to be a wolf. I want to lead people to hell because there are there are people there are people who are coming to covenant with Satan to push, you know, whatever kind of wickedness and demonic agendas and nonsense that all the nonsense that we see happening in the churches because they're doing it for the money and they're doing it for the fame. So that's where we that's why I believe we just need, you know, a lot of discernment. And I think one thing you might want to bring up to because it's another controversial topic. And I've seen it in the comments is about, you know, my belief on tongues. I'm gonna bring it up. I'm gonna bring it up. I have it. I have it, Mark. Before we do, I want I want to address something. This is this is me dealing with the folks that that tend to listen to me. Ladies and gentlemen, let me let me let me say something. Now, I have I have I have I've ever I've ever called Marcus a heretic or a false teacher. I'm pretty sure I have. Matter of fact, what, 20 times? I don't know. I don't know. There are two there are two videos when I think about Marcus a stick out that just made me just just almost listen. I had Joey in my hand. It's my coffee cup. Joey from prison had him in hand and almost dropped him on two occasions. Do y'all remember what those two occasions were? Those two occasions was one. One of the issues regarding tongues. We'll talk about tongues in a second. But then also about the snake in the back. I couldn't tell you I spun around in this chair. I don't know how many times like what in the world let me get on. Let me get in the plane. Let me go to Chicago and let me go. So yes. Now, let me just say this. Ladies and gentlemen, let me say this. Anyone that thinks that I do not have a concern for doctrine and am not bothered by false teaching and so forth, you don't watch me. You don't pay attention because I am. So let's just say let's just say I'm not saying he is, but let's just say Marcus was the worst thing ever. All these things. A couple of things and I want to put some of you guys, I want you to feel bad. I really want some of you guys to feel bad. There's enough folks. I won't say anyone by the name of folks saying Cory. You're one saying Cory. You called him a heretic and now you're back pedaling. Other folks said that Cory was, yeah, you called him this. You called him that. I just said I did. Marcus knows that. So he and I are cool with kind of coming together. Now, do I have an issue with false teachings? Do I think that all that every heresy spoken out or every false teaching makes a person a false teacher? I've said no. Now a person that's doing intentionally, sure. But let me just say this. Let's just say we talked to Frank, who is the worst of all false teachers. He's got a nice, a large channel, a large following, and we call him out and he's got followers that listen to him. Let me ask you guys a question. You wonderful, awesome, lovely, God fearing Holy Ghost field Christians. What do you want Frank the heretic to do if he is indeed a heretic? Maybe he's not a heretic. But what do you want Frank the heretic to do? Or better yet, what do you want Marcus to do? Y'all would say, I would say, man, I would love to have a conversation with Marcus. Let's get him, let's break the ice. Let's get to where we can sit and talk. What do you want Mark? Well, here he is. He's literally here. So Marcus, you need to this, this, this, and this bow down and say, I was okay. Well, first of all, if any of you, and I'm wondering if any of you have ever done this before, where I come from, whether it was on the streets, whether it was in prison, whether it was in business, whether it was in a church, when you want to help someone, if you think that if you think that they might not need it, but if you think that person needs correction, do you correct them in public? Do you, you know what? You're this, you're this, you're this, you're this, you're this. We think that that's cool. That's good for entertainment purposes, but no one is changed by that. In the, in the deep dark times of the night, when you needed correction, it wasn't before everybody else, before everybody else, you was defending yourself. So you have a conversation with someone and you can talk to that person. Let me just, let me just, if y'all think I'm making this, but let me just read the Bible. How about, how about that? The Bible says, brethren, if anyone is caught in any trespasses, this is, it's not necessarily a sin, but it can be a sin. Anything that is off the track, if you think so, you who are spiritual, you folks that say, hey, you called him a heretic too many times, pin him down, Corey says, you are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness. Each one of you looking to yourselves so that you two not would be, so guess what? Knowing that you also were there too. So what if, what if I did call them all those things? I, listen, I said before, I apologize for anything or anytime that I've said something that was unbecoming or ungodly. That is not my intent. Now my intent is to make you think about the text, make you think about the scripture and so forth. And if I could have said it a different way, well, then fine, I'll fix that. Now I'm still going to hold Marcus or anyone else account to the scriptures. That's all I got. But you mean tell me, I gotta, I gotta bring him on here and, and jump on him and dunk on him in public. I don't have to do that. Men don't have to do that. I can just say, Hey Marcus, let's talk off. Now I just remarked the issue about tongues, salvation and so forth. Disagree. And I've been waiting and wanting for somebody out there in YouTube land or pastor land or whatever to come on. Let's have this conversation, whether it be demons, whether it be tongues, whether it be salvation, what have you. I want to talk to you. Now, does that mean that I need to go ahead and because this wasn't a debate, y'all, we didn't schedule this for a debate. There was no topic that we said, let's, let's cover this. No, we didn't say it. Now, are we going to have this conversation? Sure we are. Sure we are. Is it the goal to embarrass him? No. Is it maybe his goal to embarrass me? I hope not. The goal is that we all be walking in the same direction. And guess what? This was, this was wisdom. Marcus, my pastor, my pastor freed me one day. One day I was driving to the church being a good Christian and I passed by a whole couple holiness churches, church of God in Christ, church of Christ, five, ten different Baptist church, church of Christ, Methodist and so forth. And I said, how come it passed? We got all these churches out here. That's surely what God wants. Surely he didn't want all these different denominations. And he said, son, because I was the same age as this kid. He said, son, let me ask you a question. Do you think that people in those churches, maybe not every Sunday, but in those churches or in those denominations, do you think that anybody in those churches come to Christ? I said, well, well, sure. So you think somebody in church of Christ becomes a Christian there? Yeah. Do you think anybody in church of God in Christ plays their faith in Christ? Yeah. Do you think any Baptist this week or any, any tongue talking, foot stomping, holiness people came to Christ this week? Yeah. So he just looked me in the face. He said, Cory, who do you think is responsible for that? The devil or God? Well, I said, well, God, I guess. So he said to me, well, don't you think even in spite of these little differences that God, not Cory, but God can work this out. God can make a person who loves the Lord come to him or places faith in him, irrespective of the conditions. Somebody came to Christ in a jail cell. Somebody placed their faith in Christ under a bridge homeless. Somebody placed their faith in Christ on a battlefield. Somebody placed their faith in Christ on a hospital bed. Shut up with all this talking about how somebody has to place their faith in Christ. Let's, let's, I want them saved first and let's let them grow. Marcus is literally here, guys. Let me put it. Let me go full screen. Marcus is literally here. This was Marcus's idea. I didn't call up Marcus. I didn't hit him up. Marcus did. The one thing we were saying last year, the year before, man, would be great if Marcus showed up. He's here and you say, don't restore such a one that is if he requires a story. Do I think his doctors is he got some bad issue? Yeah, I do. He probably thinks the same thing, but now we can have a conversation, can't we? Whereas previously, we couldn't. Same thing with anyone else. The, the peace trees and so forth. Listen, I was never at war with anybody. I'm always open. The guy that called me a wolf. Come on, talk to me. He said, well, I see your point now. Once you have a conversation, this is why some of you guys aren't what we see in Galatians 61. He says, but you who are spiritual, I don't mean to be mean to some of you guys, but you aren't spiritual as you think you are. If you don't want to even have the conversation with the person to see, maybe Marcus is just full of crap. Maybe he's just full of it. Or maybe he's genuine. Maybe he's open. Maybe I'm the one who's wrong. And I don't have a problem with it. I'll talk to him. I'll talk to Michael Brown. I'll talk to Layton Flowers. I'll talk to whomever else it is. And we can have this conversation. Show me where I'm wrong. Let's look at the scriptures. But what I care more about is his heart. It seems to me that Marcus Rogers, while I believe that his doctrine leaves a lot to be desired, I believe his heart is right where it needs to be. I believe Marcus really wants to get this right. And so if I'm right with an amen, if I'm wrong, how long will it take for us to find out that Marcus is on some flimflam? It won't take long at all. Matter of fact, you'll know when I put the video that Marcus lied to me, y'all. But I'm hopeful that it won't happen. Shouldn't you be that way? What God do you serve that says Marcus can't get right? Or what God do you serve that says that Corey can't get right? Who's the guy that you serve that says whatever they were, we think they are? That's what they're going to always be. Where is your... Because that ain't how you treat yourself. So yeah, did I call Marcus a heretic or a faulty? A bunch of times. Where are we at now? Right here having a conversation. So now that being the case, Marcus, I had to get that off because I just think that there's so many folks. Because we do want to jump on folks. We've said this before, so many folks want to jump on them. The nine Calvinists want to jump on the Calvinists. Calvinists want to jump on the nine Calvinists and so forth. I get that. I get that. So I'm saying, Lord, if I can be an instrument of anything, I'm not going to bridge any bridges with an actual wolf. I'm not going to bridge any bridge with someone that I know for a fact. But this man called me up, guys. I didn't call him up. He reached out to me. That says a whole lot. That says a whole lot. Because me personally, I think that there aren't very many people on YouTube that disagree with me that will come on here and talk to me and have these conversations about a doctor. Maybe they're Church of Christ or this or that or whatever or this or Baptist. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about someone that, hey, I think you're teaching. We got some issues. Most of those guys aren't coming to him, but he's here. He gets so much credit in my book. It's amazing. So now that being stated, one of the things that you said, Marcus, was about tongues after my whole little rant. One of the things that you said was about tongues. And so the question is, do you believe, now I don't think this is a heaven or hell issue, but I think it would be wrong. You believe that a person must speak in tongues to be saved? Or have you kind of changed a little bit on that? I would say I don't put people in hell, right? Because like we were talking about before, right? It's by faith, right? So if let's say someone is on their deathbed and they decide to give their life to Christ in that moment, I believe that God is going to honor their faith because that is according to what they know. But Jesus said, you're my disciples if you continue on in my word. So what I personally believe, this is how I present it to people, that tongues is for everybody, right? And there's different types of tongues, right? And obviously many people saw the conversation that I had with Alan Parr, Mark 16, 17, these signs shall follow them that believe. It doesn't say some that believe. It says them that believe. I think if it said some that believe, that would be a different conversation. But in my name shall they cast out devils and they shall speak with new tongues. And then the big one for me that I always refer to as far as just using example is Acts 19, right? And it came to pass that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coast came to Ephesus and finding certain disciples, right? So right there we see that he's saying that they are disciples. They are believers. He said unto them, have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believe? And they said unto him, we have not so much as heard whether there be a Holy Ghost. So that goes back to what I would say about somebody on the deathbed. If faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, right? If someone is just responding in faith, I believe that God is going to honor it if it's sincere. And I'm not going to say, oh, that person is going to hell because they didn't speak in tongues. And that's what I've always believed in. It's not my place to put nobody. Obviously, if you got some people preaching, you got to pray with crystals or some weirdo stuff and sage and all that stuff, that stuff is demonic. But I base most of what I believe off of Acts 19. So Paul goes up to some believers and he asked them and it says that they're disciples. Have you received the Holy Ghost since you became a believer? So you believe in Jesus? That's cool, right? You're following your disciple. That's cool. But for whatever reason, something in Paul was like, hey, have you received the Holy Ghost? And then when we read it, it says what unto them they were baptized and they said under John's baptism, then Paul said John verily baptized with the baptism repentance saying unto the people that they should believe on him which should come after him that is on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them, and they spake with tongues and prophesied. And all the men were about 12. And I know you're going to break this down and we're going to get into this, you know, but pretty much he goes up to some people who are believers says, hey, have you received the Holy Ghost? Praise for them. And they're speaking in tongues, right? And I believe there's a difference between being filled and being sealed. A lot of people use Ephesians 113 in whom you've trusted after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel, your salvation in whom after that you believe you were sealed with the Holy Spirit. So to me, those believers that Paul went to, they were sealed with the Holy Spirit, but they weren't filled with the Holy Spirit. Because he clearly says that they're disciples, he clearly says that they're believers, and he asks them, like, if we're going to just go off of somebody saying they believe in God, and that means that they're filled with the Holy Spirit, that means that everybody who says that they believe in God is filled with the Holy Spirit. But for whatever reason, Paul acknowledges these guys as believers, as disciples, and he doesn't assume that they're filled with the Holy Spirit. So I think there's a difference between being filled and being sealed. If you believe you are sealed with that promise, which is Joel 2, I'll pour out my Spirit upon off flesh. And then when I look at the Bible and I go to what is it, Acts 10, when Peter spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on them, which heard the word, right? Same thing, faith come by hearing and hearing by the word, the report that you're talking about. And they have the circumstances which believe were astonished, as many came with Peter because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. Verse 46, for they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Now, like I said, I know you're going to hit some of this, but I'm just going to get it out real quick how I believe it. Some people that I've talked to, they believe that tongues is only a form, like in the Acts 2, was to preach the gospel. So they were speaking an actual language, like African or Chinese. Some people, they believe that is solely what tongues is. I don't believe that, right? Obviously, because here, there's people getting filled in this, not the day of Pentecost, right? They're getting filled in their house. They're getting filled in private with Paul. The same thing we see with Cornelius, Acts 431. And when he prayed, the place was shaken. They were assembled together and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and they spurred the word of God with bonus. And then I guess the last thing I'll say, and then I just give it back to you, I just want people to kind of understand my train of thought. Paul, right? He talks about when I pray in a unknown tone, I pray to God, right? And it's mysteries that no one understands. And I think a lot of times this was the issue that I had with Alan Parr was like, they just they kind of skipped that verse because if you believe that tongues is only just a language that was used to preach the gospel, to me that goes against the Bible. First Corinthians 14, well, first Corinthians 14 to for anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people, but to God. Indeed, no one understands them. They utter mysteries by the spirit. And then verse four, he that speaketh in an unknown tongue, edifyeth himself, but he that prophesied edifyeth the church, then you put that with Jude 120 about building up your most precious faith, praying in the Holy Ghost. So for me, I think that and this is what I believe, and this is controversial, makes people mad. I believe that any believer can speak in tongues if they believe. Now, if you've been taught that you don't need it, or it's just a gift for some people, then I believe that you'll never receive it, because you have to believe in order to receive it. And we see here clearly, you know, every time that someone was filled with the Holy Spirit, they spoke in tongues with that evidence, at least when I look through the Scriptures, Acts 10, Acts 8, Acts 2, it happened every time. So even if you don't agree, I don't understand how me saying tongues is for everyone makes me, you know, a heretic arts. It's not like I'm telling people to go pray with crystals or go pray to demons. I'm just saying these signs should follow them that believe, right? You should speak in tongues, like the Bible says. But, you know, we could go further because the big argument is that Pastor Vlad talks about this a lot, too. The difference between being filled with the evidence speaking in tongues, the gift of tongues. Paul says there's various tongues. So that's a whole another conversation. Maybe what we can do is sometime in the future have an actual conference where we sit down and just go through it, but just in a room. But where I used to be, I came out of the charismatic movement as well. And so we were tongue talking and so forth. And so what we see in Scripture is one thing, but the next question is why? Why did we see these tongues? Let me ask you a question before I go forward. Well, two questions. One, has the Bible, is there ever an example in the Bible where the Spirit of the Lord moved and there was ever a person that didn't know it was the Spirit of God? Anyone that was around? We don't have an example of the Spirit of the Lord moving and no one knew it, right? Everyone knew it, right? Yes, sir. Whether it was a healing, whether it was someone who had been raised from the death, tongues, what have you. When it happened, everyone knew. Second thing, the Bible tells us what these spiritual gifts or these spiritual things are for. All spiritual gifts, every last one of them according to Paul, according to John, according to Jesus, according to Peter. They are all for the benefit for the upbuilding of the body, including that passage in Jude. We've come out before where it's not saying you build yourself up. It's for you, y'all build up everybody else up. We've covered that in the language. By the way, I think that every pastor, so I'll say this to you, I think that every pastor will do does himself a disservice by not having at least a cursory understanding of of the Greek and Hebrew because it does set a lot of issues, especially when you consider that when Paul is writing the letter to the church of Corinth, he's not writing a letter to say, Hey guys, you guys are so wonderful. You guys are amazing. I love what you know. He's this is a letter of review and we've got to figure out what it's rebuking. But here's the question. Why do we have tongues? Why did this thing pop off? What was being stated? Oh, by the way, when Paul references the Old Testament in regards to this in Isaiah, it's literally a language. Jesus brings us up first when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. He says, You're going to testify of me. All of our spiritual gifts are to testify and to magnify him. Now, he's getting ready to die and saying that when the spirit comes, you will continue this ministry and greater things, not in terms of better, but in terms of volume, you will do than I do because I go to the Father, you receive the Holy Spirit. And so he says in Acts one, when you receive the spirit, what are you going to do? Be my witnesses where Jerusalem, Judea with Jerusalem, Judea. So not just in Jerusalem, but all of Judea, Samaria and to the uttermost parts of the world. So we've got three groups here and we're going to see it happen just like that. First is poured out in Acts two on the Jews, Jews from different locations and locales, but all of them Jews and the Holy Spirit is following them and we know that they speak in languages because they tell us, then the only time that we ever see interpretation in the Bible, there's only one time this gift is ever shown is in that very same chapter. Peter gets up and explains to those because there are people there who have no idea what's being said because you've got people being spoken to in a different language in their language. Then you got those folks who what in the world are we hearing? Then you also got the mockers to show up. These are mockers say, well, they're just drunk. Well, that's their job. They're supposed to be there. They're doing just what they're supposed to do mocking and Peter gets up and tells everyone who didn't speak those languages what you're doing. So you got three people that you got those that are speaking, those that's hearing and those on the outside that's hearing that it wasn't intended for. And then Peter is also sharing the gospel with them in their native language. So we've got all these folks placing their faith in Christ to the tune of 3,000 men who knows even more adding the women and children that day because the gospel magnification of Christ went out in different languages and in their native language. So it's the only time, by the way, the only time in the scriptures where we actually see and understand what was spoken in these languages. When we go to Acts 8, the second group, Paul says, I mean, Jesus says, to Samaria. Well, then the Samaritans received the Holy Spirit. We presume it was tongues because Simon sees something, hears something, wants to buy it. So all we know is that they have these tongues. That's what we assume. So we'll go and say that the tongues, we see tongues in Acts 2 with the Jews and then with the Samaritans. Then the next group is going to be the Gentiles in Acts 10. They received the Holy Spirit and the Jews marveled. There's a reason why, because what we don't have, there's two reasons why we see tongues. One, as Jesus says, to give the gospel, and then two, as a sign to those people who don't believe these unbelieving Jews, because Paul makes that point in 1 Corinthians 14, referring back to Isaiah, because remember, God is trying to make the Jews jealous of the Gentiles to bring them, because after this first outpouring, the Jews coming to Christ start slowing down. But then the Gentiles speak up, which is why Paul makes his point in Romans 9 to 11. And then we see it again with John's disciples. Remember John's disciples, those guys who run the countryside, look, say, repent the kingdom of heaven. Well, they're doing their job. Matter of fact, one of those people who was part of this group that was going around saying repent the kingdom of heaven, John's disciples, was a man by the name of Apollos, who didn't, he didn't quite fully get it. All he was familiar with was John's preaching and John's baptism. So we've got all these groups receiving the Holy Spirit. Why? Because now we don't have a divided church. We don't have the Jews saying, yeah, we're saved and we have the Holy Spirit. You guys are saved, but you don't. They even marvel that the Samaritans and the Gentiles receive the Holy Spirit. The only time that we see tongues show up again is in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14. The very same word that's used, these two Greek words, Glossis and Laleo, different derivatives of it, but those two are always there. And that is Paul is saying these gifts are for the building up of the body. And if the gifts are for the building up of the body, then someone decides that 1 Corinthians 14 2 means that it's for building up yourself. Well, that goes contrary to what he already said, what Peter said, what Jesus says, what Jews says. It goes contrary to every other passage about spiritual gifts and tongues. And so here we're going to take this passage. Paul is what he's saying is he's not contradicting the word. He's saying, all you guys are doing is edifying yourself because you don't even know what you're saying. And he says that he goes down. He says, so if you're going to pray in tongue, rather than praying tongues, as he says later on, you pray in tongues. You don't know what you're saying. I don't want you to be ignorant of what you're saying, which is what he said in 1 Corinthians 12 14. He says, rather what you ought to do is when you pray, pray with understanding. And so that's, that's how I, how I see tongues. Now, let me say this, if a person believes you have to speak in tongues or tongues is valid, what have you, does that make the person? I think that's a false teaching that make the person a false teacher. And I don't think that that ruins a person's salvation because again, I used to believe that a lot of folks we believe differently and we kind of come to understand it, but the main thing is whether you believe in tongues or not, you better believe that you must place your faith in Christ. So I believe that there's a lot to be, to be handled here. And so I think the whole point that Paul is trying to get out, the point that, that Jesus is trying to get out, the point that is written acts and the point that's written in Jude as well is that we need to disseminate the gospel. And if I go to someplace and they don't understand my language, how am I going to do it? I need, I need these languages. But if I speak it in English, because here's the other, here's the last point. Can you name anybody in the Bible that spoke in tongues, that prior to speaking in tongues, they wanted to speak in tongues? Are there any examples in the Bible of someone speaking in tongues where they knew about it earlier and then wanted to get it? We don't, we don't have an example, do we? On the Day of Pentecost, they didn't know they were on speaking tongues. They had no idea. Jesus just said, you'd be my witnesses. They had, they didn't know. And then it happened. Same thing in Acts 8, same thing in Acts 10, the Jews were wow. The reason why I bring that up is because this, the reason why people who, if, if you believe in these spiritual gifts and the outpouring of the spirit, you never have to worry about what the person who receives the gifts thinks or what people who don't have that particular gift think. Why? Because the spirit, when he moves, he moves. He's not asking you what you think. If the spirit comes up on Marcus Riders right now, he's not going to ask Marcus Riders what you think about that. Hey, would you mind if I come? So if he wants me to speak in tongues or, or to lay hands or whatever, if he moves, there's not one example in the Bible where the spirit came upon somebody and what he wanted to do through that person didn't happen. Even if it was somebody like Saul, or with Nebuchadnezzar becoming a cow, or with David, or with Samson, or with anyone, or with you or I. And so if the spirit comes upon a person, that person, and he wants that person, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 12, as he gives the gifts as he wills, that person will speak in tongues. So I never have to worry about whether, whether tongues are real or not. I can point out the ones that I see and like, well, that doesn't look like what it looked like in the Bible. But if, if the Lord comes upon me to speak in tongues, guess what Cory's going to do? Speak in tongues because it won't be me manufacturing it. It will be him. So maybe one day we can, we can kind of, you know, go through all these. I can share with you why I changed my opinion on it. Listen, I will staunch tongues. I will staunch. You can lose your salvation. I was, I mean, I was, I was ready to fight you. So can I, can I say one thing about that though? Sure. Sure. So the only thing about the, then maybe not knowing they were going to speak in tongues, I got two questions and then maybe you can just explain that. So obviously, you know, in Isaiah 28, he says, for with stammering lips and another tongue, where he speak to his people, to whom he said the rest, wherewith he may cause the weary to rest, and this is refreshing yet they would not hear. So I feel like Isaiah is prophesying of what's going to happen on the, in the book of Acts. So if they were aware of, you know, the prophecy in Isaiah, they maybe had somebody, did they know they were going to speak in tongues? I would say that they knew it was prophesied. And then the other thing is, this is the same conversation I have with Alan Parr, where we got stuck. I feel like we still didn't address 1 Corinthians 14 too. He says, for anyone who speaks in a tongue, does not speak to people, but to God. Indeed, no one understands them. They utter mysteries by the spirit. So to me, when I read that, and you can, you can correct me, teach me, but when I read that, it's clear that when I'm praying in tongues, right, there's different tongues. There's the various tongues. There's the gift of tongues, where yes, you're preaching in a language. The Holy Spirit gives you the supernatural ability to preach the gospel to these people that otherwise you wouldn't communicate. But then if we say that's the only form of tongues, then how do we, you know, bring that with 1 Corinthians 42? So for anyone who speaks in a tongue, does not speak to people, but to God. Indeed, no one understands them. They utter mysteries by the spirit. And then 1 Corinthians 14-4, he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifies himself. So, and then obviously Jude 120, to me, when I read those three verses and I felt it when I, like when I'm in my office and I pray in tongues, I feel my spirit man being built up, you know, and I don't know if there's people who would agree or disagree. I know that most people will say like, man, just in the privacy, sometimes I pray in tongues. And I feel like that the Holy Spirit is making an intersection on my behalf. The Bible says you pray and you pray a miss because I'm just a man. So there's things that I don't know. There's things that I don't see. I don't know what to pray. And I believe that's part of the gift, that supernatural ability, you know, out of your belly shall flow rivers of living water, like the Holy Spirit is interceding on my behalf and praying. And it says it's mysteries to God. I might not fully understand, you know, but there's that power there. So I've never, and every time I've had this conversation, I've never had anybody explain those three verses. Even when I was talking to Allen Parr, he just kept dancing around it and avoided it. And I just would like to hear that, you know, what is your, I'm gonna go through, but let me ask you a question. Yes, sir. When I want to speak in tongues, and I'm desiring, Lord, please, I want, I want this. Why don't I? Oh, you're saying someone who wants to do it and they don't? Yeah, even, even me when I wanted to, in the times that I wanted to. Well, the first thing I would say, right, some people, they don't do it because they were taught, right? Like you don't need it. It's a gift. It's only for some people. But for me though, I was taught. We speak in tongues. So why when I, when I wanted it, there was a time where I wanted it and just wouldn't happen. Yep, I've had it. So I've had a lot of people. So this is, this is what I would say. And I told this to, you know, Allen Parr privately, I've never met somebody who wanted it and didn't get it eventually. Usually when we have a conversation and we talk, you know, and then that brings me back to Paul. Like if they didn't need it, like if they just, oh, we believe in Jesus and then we're filled with the spirit, why did he ask them, you know, have you been filled with the Holy Ghost? Like if I just say that I believe and I'm filled with the spirit, right, they believed in Jesus, he called them disciples, then he would assume that they were already filled with the Holy Spirit because he acknowledges them, you are a disciple, you are a believer, but have you been filled with the Holy Ghost yet? And they say no. But remember, remember though, remember, you've got these people that are running around the countryside in John's baptism. Remember, because right in that same, in that same passage, we're talking about remember when Priscilla and Aquila, they pull a Paulus to the side. Yes, sir. Paulus was a devout man, but what was Paulus known for? All he knew was the baptism of John. They remember, we've got these faithful disciples that are going around the countryside, repent for the kingdom of heaven in their hand and that Jesus is coming and so forth. And that's all that we're doing. We've got John and his disciples. Remember Peter and Andrew and so forth. These guys were disciples of John. They just happened to see Jesus and go to him. But there were other disciples of John that were still there and we run into them in Acts 19. We run into them with Acts 19 and Acts 20 and we see Paulus and these other people. So they, they don't know enough at this point in time because we don't have the internet, we don't have Bibles and so forth. So it's happening in stages so that everyone can see that each group, like Jesus says, is receiving the Holy Spirit and the validation of it is them speaking in languages. However, whenever we see other new believers in the Bible, we don't see them speaking in languages. We never see, we never see anyone speaking in tongues again, even in 1 Corinthians 14, because Paul is rebuking them. Now you ask, what does that, what does that passage mean? Let's, let's, let's go to it. He says, I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead. I'm sorry. So my question, I understand what you said right there. So then I would rephrase that question everywhere that someone was filled with the Holy Spirit, it says they spoke in tongues, right? Not everywhere. No, not everywhere. So where, where is an example of where they didn't? Well, let me run through some of these passages. I didn't, I didn't, really in most cases in the Bible, most salvage, most instances of salvation in the Bible, they didn't speak in tongues, right? Let's see, everywhere someone was filled with Zachariah, didn't in Luke 17, but, but again, that was prior, but what about, what about, that's, that's, I mean, since, since the new, the New Testament church, okay, acts 19 acts 10 acts 8 acts 2, they always spoke in tongues. No, they didn't act, even acts 238, did they speak in tongues? They didn't, we can, we can pull it up. Acts 238, they didn't act, maybe acts 431 acts 826. We don't even know when Paul actually spoke in tongues. We know he did though. The procounsel in acts 1312 didn't speak in tongues, act 1348. They believe and they, and they, and they received the Holy Spirit. They didn't speak in tongues. Lydia in acts 1614, the jailer in acts 1632, Dionysius in acts 1733, Crispus in his household in acts 188. Most people in the Bible, when they became believers, we, it's not recorded that they spoke in tongues. And so we could not say, we have to, at that point, that's a point we've got to stop saying everybody who, who believes spoke in tongues, because most people in the Bible didn't speak in tongues. And we've got one time, only one time in the Bible where someone spoke in tongues and we actually know what they said. We were told about them in acts 10, but we didn't actually hear it. The one time that we see tongues in the Bible, the one time is acts two. And in that one time, it's a language and everybody, everybody knows what it is. What ends up happening is we go all the way to acts 14, even with the Bible and tell us to, we change the definition of what it is. And then Paul reiterates these languages, these tongues in acts 14, back to Isaiah. And Isaiah is clearly talking about a language, but today in 2020, the 21st century, we make it to be something different that, that it was not. It's all, it's now a spiritual language. It's a prayer language. But remember, in the Greek, the same words that described speaking in tongues, glosais, laleo, those two words are used. It's used in Mark 16. If you want to believe the long rendering, that's fine. Acts 1 Corinthians 12, 1 Corinthians 14, the same two words are used. So it's not too different. It's not a gift of tongues. And then praying in tongues, the same two words are used every time. So those aren't two different things. So when we get to acts, I mean, 1 Corinthians 14, one, we have to remember what was said in 1 Corinthians 12 and 13. 1 Corinthians 12 says, I don't want you to be ignorant or uninformed or unknowing, the word agnoane means to not know concerning spiritual things. And the spiritual things, numitikon, is the word, it's not actually the word spiritual gifts. But if you want to say spiritual gifts, that's fine. If you want to say gifts, but the actual word is numitikon. And then the same thing in 1 Corinthians 14, he says, these gifts are given for the benefit of others. And about seven, eight, nine, 10 times in 1 Corinthians, Paul reiterates that the gifts are for others, not for you. It's for the building of hearts. He says, that's what my question was. So, but just to be clear, in Acts 2, they did speak in tongues, Acts 10, they did. And we would have to go, we would have to go read them all, but Acts 2, Acts 19, Acts 10, it clearly says they spoke in Acts 2, verse 4. But that goes back to the same... No, no, no, you miss what I'm saying. You miss what I'm saying. I'm saying, I know they did, but Acts 2, 38, they didn't. And I'm saying most of the times where we see someone's conversion in Acts and everywhere else, we don't see them speaking in tongues in most cases. So, if we just start adding them up. And then we only have one... Well, name a time other than Acts 2 where someone spoke in tongues and we know what they said. So, that's my point, right? You're saying conversion and that goes back to from the moment that you believe you're sealed, right? So, but everywhere where it says that they were filled with the Holy Spirit, that's the point that I'm making. Everywhere it says that they were filled, it says they spoke in tongues. Will we agree on that? No, because even... No, no. Yeah, we can go line by line and read it. I know we don't have time. But we don't have the time. More importantly is this is the one that I want to get though, is the first Corinthians 14 too, because I agree with you that tongues, it can be edifying to the body and the interpreter. I get all that, but that still doesn't explain the first Corinthians 14 too, because it says for anyone who speaks in tongues, does not speak to people but to God. So, when they're praying in tongues, they're speaking to God and it says it's mysteries. And then 144 says he's speaking the unknown tongue, he's edifying himself. So, when I'm praying the unknown tongue, I am edifying myself, not just the body. So, there's a tongue that edifies the body and there's a tongue that edifies myself. So, here's my question to you. Paul is writing this letter to Rebuke. He's not saying, good job guys in first Corinthians, right? Nowhere. So, in first Corinthians 14, which part of tongues is he rebuking? I believe... Because the letter he's rebuking them. So, what is he rebuking them for? I don't think that he's rebuking them because he clearly says that when you're praying tongues, you're praying to God to yourself. So, your private prayer time, when you're praying in tongues, you're building yourself up by praying in the spirit, which to me, it matches up perfectly with what Jude 1.20 says. But then the gift of tongues, if we read it, it says not every one of you has a tongue, every one of you has a message. So, you have chaos in the church. The way that I've seen it is there's these moments that we've had in church, and it's like we're worshiping, and it's like almost on one accord, like there's like this reverence, and then one person will bust out with a tongue, and then somebody will come with the interpretation. But if everybody's busting out with these tongues, you know what I'm saying? And then you have chaos, you know? And so, and then you can tell in the spirit, there's been times where it's like we're worshiping, and I've seen different churches, and it's like everybody's just silent, and they're like just kind of soaking in the presence of God. And out of nowhere, somebody will just break that silence and bust out with a tongue, and then somebody will interpret it. But there have been times where somebody gives the interpretation, and the Holy Spirit like that's not it. Like that person is in their emotions, their feelings, the same way like you see people like fake tongues and demonic tongues and all that weirdo stuff. You know, that's my explanation in it. So there's people who would try to jump in and give the interpretation, and they're not being led by the Holy Spirit, right? And there's people who are doing fake tongues and all that kind of stuff. So I guess my question is, if he's saying that I pray in tongues to God, and I'm edifying myself, how do we rectify that with the rest of it? Okay, I'm going to run quick because I know you said you have to go and just so let's go ahead. He says pursue love, which is delca pain, which is pursue love. Don't pursue gifts, pursue love. In doing so, he says, zalute, which is desire of the pneumatic and desire of the spiritual things, why? In order that you would, as he says, and literally there's in the Greek, henna profite, in order that you give a revelation. Word profite means to give a revelation to prophesy with not a foretelling the future, but to tell, to infer, I mean, to utter, to inform. That's what the word literally means, either forth telling or foretelling. Then he says, for one, by the way, let me ask you a question. You don't have to answer this question, but if I say Marcus is a good guy, but Marcus loves the Lord, but, well, then what comes after that, but we all know it's not going to be a great thing. If, if, if I was trying to set up one of the guys in the chats and I, hey, listen to this young lady, she's a nice lady. She comes from a good family. She loves the Lord. She can cook, but, well, he don't want to hear what's coming after the but, right? Because but is a word of contrast. Keep that in mind. For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God. For no one understands, but in his spirit, he speaks mission and dependent upon, which Greek grammar you're asking is either, but in his spirit or, but in the spirit, if it's in his spirit and it's kind of hard to determine the Greek, if it's his or the spirit, if it's, if it's to be taken, but in his spirit, that's game change. That's it. That person is doing it clearly in error, but if it's in the spirit, okay, he's speaking in the spirit to the Holy Spirit. We get this phrase from here that only God knows how we say today. What is he talking about? I don't know. Only God knows. That's what this is. It's an idiom. It's an idiomatic phrase from right here that comes from this that we say today, but one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation, consolation, which is what we're supposed to do. But the one in verse two, all he does is he doesn't speak to men, but to God. Is he supposed to speak to men? Well, what does he say in verse three of the contrast? The person in contrast of verse three, the one who's given revelation prophesies, he speaks to men. Why? For their edification. In verse two, the only person who's getting edified is the person. Is that what he's supposed to do? Well, yeah, he feels good. Yeah, you know what, man, I felt good. I was in, I was in the spirit. I was praying. What did I say? I have no idea, but I felt good, which Paul addresses that later. He says verse four, the one who speaks in a tongue singular tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies a church. Now, I wish that all of you spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy. Why? It says greater is the one who prophesies than the one who speaks in the tongue. Unless he interprets with the word here is explained where we get the word hermeneutics so that the church may receive edify. The whole point and Paul, if we were to go and mark out every time that Paul speaks about edification or building up, you'll see the theme that Paul wants us to edify others. Brethren, if I come to you, look what he says, speaking in tongues. If I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you? Meaning it seems like he wants to profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching, yet even lifeless things. Let's drop down here. Look what he says verse nine. So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear that we can understand how will it be known what is spoken for you will be speaking into the air. So if you speak it in tongues and you don't know what you're saying, no one knows not even you. Paul says you are speaking into the air. Different kinds of languages in the world and all of them that is not one that didn't have meaning. If I don't know the meaning of the language, I am a barbarian. So look what he says verse 12. Be desirous. So you are, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts or the word Nuitikon seek to abound in the edification of the church. So what does he want you to do with your spiritual gift or your spiritual gifting to edify the church? Now one will speak in a tongue. Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. So if you think that this is a certain, a different gift, like a prayer life, fine. Look what he says. He says you better pray that you may interpret that same word. Dear Meneu, which is to, or we get the word again, hermeneutics to explain, to understand, pray that you will understand what in the world you just said. For if I pray, look what he says. If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. There is not one Christian on the planet that should ever want to have an unfruitful mind. So what does he say? What is the outcome? What's the solution? What should I do? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with my mind. The same word. Noe was the same, the opposite of what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 12. He says I don't want you to be agnoe, which is to be ignorant or unknowing. I want you to know. I want you to pray with knowing. I want you to understand. And so every time Paul speaks about these gifts, particularly tongues, because it's a preferred gift folks want to have, he says you need to have understanding and you need to build up others. And if we go to Jew 20, Paul says, but beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, he's not saying you build yourself up. No, because this is a plural. You amaze, which is y'all. He says y'all, beloved, build up y'all selves, others, not you build yourself up individually. It'd be a different Greek word that would be used. And so Paul is saying, this is why I say folk ought to, especially pastors, need to get some curse or understanding of the Greek. He's not saying y'all build, you build up everybody else or build yourself. Y'all build yourself. Y'all build up others, which is why he says the whole coming to church, being stirred together, stir up the gifts of other people. Because when you buy yourself, it's just you. You speak in tongues. What does that do? Nothing for you. I can promise you, you're no better off and no closer to God than me with my book, reading the Bible and praying in English. I know what I'm saying. I know what I'm praying for, but in this regard, Paul says you're just, Paul says you're speaking into the air. Now, we wouldn't be able to go over all this because you'll come up with a scripture, I'll come up with something. So maybe we ought to just say, you know what, let's, let's come back to this again. Cause I know you got to, you got to go pick up your kid or take your kid to, to what karate you said. I got a little time. I guess that I feel, I feel the same way that I did though, when I had that conversation, cause I agree with everything that you read. I just believe that is in the context of, of the church, because I think what we're saying is, like when you pray in the Holy spirit, you are building yourself up, but what you should do is build up others. So my point is that it's okay to build yourself up. And, and like when, what you read where Paul says, so I'm going to pray, he says, I'm going to pray in the spirit and pray with my mind. So that means there's a distinction there. Like if we, if we look at that whole context in the beginning, he says, I'm praying in the, praying in the unto unto God, right? I'm edifying myself, but I need to edify others. So then we scroll down to where you read and he says, I'm going to pray in the spirit and I'm going to pray in my mind so it can be fruitful. So to me, there's clearly a distinction between praying in the spirit and praying in my mind. And I believe every believer should do that, pray in the spirit and also pray with, pray with your mind. But the problem is when we pray with our mind, sometimes we can pray our own desires, our own feelings and things like that. And so I, you know, that's just how I look at with the Jude context about praying in the Holy Spirit. Like it's clear you build yourself up when you pray alone, but when you're in that context of church, hey, you should be building up other people. So I gotta, what are you saying? Marcus, but, but Jude is not saying you build yourself up. No, no, no. The first verse that we read, remember, we keep going back to that first Corinthians, right? He did speak within an unknown tongue edified himself. So clearly when I pray in tongues, I can edify myself, right? So let me ask you a question. You've got every other passage, let's take that verse two out. Let's just, because that, let's say that passage right there is debated. We're not, we're not coming to agreement on that one. But if we go to every other passage talking about building ourselves up, I mean, building up others, edification, it's always edifying others. Even Peter says, you need to edify the point of these spiritual gifts is to edify others with your gift. First Peter tells us that. So why do we then take all those passages where we say the point of these gifts are to build up others? Then we come back in this passage that we disagree on and say, yeah, but this passage tells us to edify yourself. We don't have any other passage. And so if a person is teaching a doctrine off of one passage, that's all you have here because you cannot use you 20 because you 20 and speaking about a singular, you say yourselves, that could be like me standing in front of the crowd and saying, Hey, you guys, when you pray in the Holy Ghost, you build yourselves up. That's how I interpret that. But wait a second, but you just said though, there's a difference between praying in tongues publicly in the church and individually. So that couldn't be praying individually. So, so, so you 20, even take it the way you said it, couldn't mean that because now that cuts your knees off on the difference between praying in tongues and the gift of tongues. So that, so the whole argument right there, right, that's where we come back to from the beginning, right? So some people believe, and I'm not sure if this is what you believe, that tongues is only like you're speaking Chinese, you're speaking African, but Paul says, right, I'm praying in tongues to God, not to a man. So that would be my question to you. What is the purpose of praying in tongues to God? There is none. You're not praying in tongues. Paul is speaking to the person like all you're doing is talking to God and only God, only God knows what you're saying. He says for the one who speaks in the tongue does not speak to men, but to God. You're only speaking to God. Only God knows. And so here's the question. What in the world are you saying to God? They don't know. So let's think about this for a second. That's the Holy Spirit making an intercession on your behalf. It can be. See, here's why it can't be Romans 826. Let me pull that up real quick. Here's why you can, you can never use Romans 826, whether it's the Greek or the English. Notice what he says. He says in 826, he says, and we know that, I'm sorry, wrong one. Oh, I'm 28. I don't know what point. Verse 2060 says, in the same way, the spirit also helps our weaknesses, for we do not know how to pray as we should. But look what he says, but the spirit himself intercedes with us for us with groanings too deep for words. Some, some verse might say with words that cannot be uttered, but this word right here in the Greek that I have highlighted, Stenagmois, that means an inward sign. There's nothing coming out of the person's mouth. It's the Holy Spirit that is saying something that is communicating or with these groanings that are too deep for words. There are no words that are coming out. So, so this couldn't be talking about tongues. Matter of fact, what he's speaking of in this part in Romans 8, he's speaking about our salvation. And so he's not speaking about, about tongues because if he did, that would be odd that these tongues are not pronounced. There's no words coming out. They, they are groanings too deep with words or Stenagmois. What, what, what does that mean again? And could you send me that? Because I've been looking for something like that to get in the Greek and the Hebrew, whatever Bible app that is, but what is it saying that that groanings means right there? Stenagmois, it's an inward groaning. It's a, it's an inward, it's an inward sighing. Let me see if I can get this to show up. Let's see. Uh-oh. Hold on. Let me, I have to delete this to get the show up over here. Let me move that out the way. There it is. And I got, and I got one more question for you too. And then I, and I got a little time, but uh, why did they think they were drunk in Acts 2 if they were just speaking a language? Well, who said they, who said they thought they were drunk? He said, these men are not drunk as you supposed. They've just been filled with the Holy Spirit. So if I'm speaking in your language, if I'm just speaking Chinese to preach the gospel, if I'm speaking like African, if somebody comes up to me speaking Spanish, I'm not going to assume that they're drunk. So something about those people made people think that they were drunk. Well, if you come to me speaking Spanish, I'm not going to say, oh, this person is drunk. Okay. There's a good reason for that. One, whenever we hear some, see, you and I have heard someone speak in Spanish. You and I have heard someone speak in Italian or French or any other language. We have access. They didn't always have that. So, so to hear all these different languages might not have been a normal thing, but let's just say it were. Let's just say they were used to hearing all of these languages. If we go to verse 13, the question is, who was the one asking this question? Those who were mocking. And so this way right here are this, this is the mocking people. This is in a, this is a participle. So these are people that are mocking. That's what they do. They, that's their job. So it's almost like this Marcus. It's like, when the haters come, what are they going to, haters are going to hate, mockers are going to mock. They're going to say that. So he says, but others were mocking and saying they were full of sweet wine. This, so what, so what we can't do is take the mockers and take their words and put any legitimacy to it. They, they came mocking. One of the things they were saying was that they're just drunk. These folks are drunk. Well, were they? Well, clearly they weren't. And the only ones that thought that were these other people. Other folks like, man, what is this? What's, what's, what's this happening? Other folks, what's this says? And they all continue in amazement and great perplexity saying to one another, what does this mean? So the majority of the audience was not saying they were, they were drunk. The majority of the audience, they were, they were amazed and great perplexity saying, what does this mean? But then here comes the haters. They always show up. The haters who think that they know the Lord and love the Lord or what have you and want to get on you. They came saying, these folks are drunk. Well, no, they're not drunk as you, as you presume or as you say. And so Peter then does what he's supposed to do. There are many, which is, he begins to explain the only again, the only time in the Bible where they are there's interpretation. And we know that their languages, we don't have to worry about what the mockers are saying because the people that are hearing it, they themselves hear them speaking in their own languages. So we know it's language. It was funny in Isaiah, in Acts, everywhere else that we see this word, glossize, it only means two things. It's only ever meant two things. It meant our tongue that we use too much sometimes, or it means languages. In the 20th, 21st century, now all of a sudden tongues means something else. It means a spiritual language. It means angelic. None of these things was ever thought of and accepted by the church. But now we have that. Why is that? Why do we get to change the definition of the word all of a sudden? Oh, okay. So I get it. I understand what your belief is. So pretty much then, I guess that a lot of people would say like anybody who's praying in tongues privately, and we're saying like we're filling ourselves, being built up in the spirit. Sometimes like, for example, I've been in situations I didn't even know what to pray for. It was so terrible. And then I just pray in the spirit. You know what I'm saying? And then I feel that power. Acts 18, you should receive power after the Holy Ghost has come upon you. What you would say is that that's not true then. You would tell me. Well, hold on, Marcus. Hold on. This is what you did. This is what you did, brother. I got to, I got to, this is what you did. You say it, because I've been there. I'm playing with you because I was there too. I didn't know what to say. So I began praying in tongues. You still didn't know what to say after you finished praying in tongues. You still didn't know what to say. You still didn't say anything, right? But I felt a shift in my mind and I felt a shift in my heart and that's it. Oh, you feel good. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. So you edified yourself? No, the Holy Spirit out of your belly will flow rivers of lingual water. You edified yourself? No, the Holy Spirit edified me. Okay. You said you didn't know what to pray. So you began speaking in tongues, but I do recall the Bible said this is the, this is the move of the spirit. This is the gift of the spirit. First Corinthians 12. You didn't know what to say. You prayed. You still didn't know what you said. So therefore you didn't accomplish anything. You couldn't even, as Paul says, you couldn't even give the amen. But isn't that what you read that Paul said to do? He said, I pray in the spirit and I pray in my mind. Praying in the spirit doesn't mean tongues. I don't know where all of a sudden praying in the spirit, all of a sudden now means tongues. That goes back to the first verse that we read that sets that whole Corinthians into place for anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people with God. Indeed, no one understands. Verse four, he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edified himself. So that's where it goes back to me, the foundation. Is it possible? Is it possible? It may not be true, but is it possible that Paul is rebuking them? In other words, if he said it this way, here's how I say, I believe Paul is saying it. He says, excuse me, y'all pursue love and I want you to desire the spiritual things in order that you will give a revelation. Now, if you're speaking in these tongues, you're not speaking to men, you're just speaking to God. Only God knows what you're saying because no one understands you. But in your spirit, all you're doing is speaking mysteries. You're speaking mysteries, but the one who's given a revelation yet he's edifying the church. Is it, is it possible that how I just said that is what he meant? Is possible? Another question is, is it? Now, so, so now we got to go out and let's see, is it possible? So what I was taught to do, take both of the views, either Paul is getting on them for their misuse of tongues or he's saying, this is how you ought to do it. The problem is, if this is how you ought to do it in 1 Corinthians 14, Paul literally says, I want to pull this up in 1 Corinthians 12. Notice what he says, how Paul starts this off. Paul says, now concerning, here's that word, numitikon, spiritual gifts. The word gifts is probably italicized, meaning that it's not there in the Greek, but it's fine if you say spiritual gifts, but it says, now concerning spiritual things or numitikon. Obviously, he's speaking to brothers because he calls him a Delphoi. He says, I do not want, I don't desire you to be here. That word ignorant. But look what he says though. This is the part that we don't speak on. You know that when you were pagan, as you unbelievers, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led. Therefore, I make known to you that, look what he says, no one speaking by the Spirit of God says Jesus occurs and no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. Well, we're okay with the second part that no one, you can't say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit, meaning you accept that. But this part right there where it says no one speaking by the Spirit could ever say Jesus is a curse. First of all, two things. One, they're speaking. Two, they're saying Jesus is a curse. Who in the world, which Christian, how could a Christian by the Spirit, the same Spirit that calls him to say Jesus Lord, how could that very same person with the Spirit ever say Jesus is a curse? The only way he can do so is if he says something that he doesn't know what he just said. That's the only way. There's no, I rack my brains on this. How could a person with the Spirit say Jesus is a curse, be a brother, say Jesus is a cursed? Why would he do that? We know the person speaking, saying Jesus is Lord by the Spirit. How could he also say Jesus is cursed? Well, because he says you're speaking this word that's there, that's still there, la long, or la la oh, that word is still there. So he's saying something, something is coming out of his mouth that says Jesus is a curse. Do we think he knows what he's saying or not? Well, this person clearly doesn't know what he's saying. That's why he says, I don't want you to be ignorant. In this case about what you're saying, and then we drop down to verse seven, these gifts are given for the benefit of the whole body. Marcus, if you stub your right toe right now, I promise you your right big toe is not going to help you. What's going to help you is going to be your right or your left hand. If you get a cut on your head, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, can we just stop this for a second? Hold on. We got to stop and pause. Y'all forgive me. I just, I don't know where my mind, y'all forgive me, my manners, but I just recognize Marcus is bald. Y'all, can we, can we, can we just praise God for the, listen, listen, listen. Marcus, listen, this is when I started, I say, I'm leaving Marcus alone. Marcus started, started saving us here. There we go. Praise God. I'm almost poking tongues right there. I just recognize the name is bald. Anyway, I'm, but listen, I'm having fun. But all that he tells us to do is for other people. The greatness of Marcus Rogers would be realized not in Marcus doing for himself. It would be in what Marcus does for other people. Whatever Corey could do great is not for you. I can take care of my family. Got me a new car, got TV, got this, okay. What about other people? I don't care about the fact that you said you love me. Show me you love me by showing you love others. You cannot tell me you love, as John says, love others. I mean, love me. You don't love others. You cannot say that. You cannot tell me that you love this person and you're not concerned about them. So now all of a sudden I get my spiritual gifts and my spiritual gifts for me. No, that's never, there's no other time in the Bible where God expects you to demonstrate your love for yourself. I mean, for him by showing your love for yourself, because what are the two greatest commandments? Love the Lord. And then what? Love others the way you love yourself. Because we ain't never got a problem with taking care of us, but it's other people. So if Marcus wants to speak to the Lord and then know what to say, Lord, I don't know what to say, but I love you. I'm dumbfounded with my words. It's not enough words to say. So what I'll do, I'll just be quiet and just think about you. And I do that all the time. I just think about your goodness. God, I'm at a loss for words because there's not enough words for me to say how great and awesome you are. I can't tell you when I was in that sale crying, I didn't have a word to say, but my tears spoke for me. My tears said everything you needed to know. Lord, my knees demonstrated all that I needed to know. I mean, all you needed, I needed to say. And so tones would have done me no good. But the fact that you see my heart, praise God. What do you say? I would just say so then, Matt, I agree with a lot of what you said. So I guess that my understanding would be then when it comes to like actin and cornelius and where it says all these people's spoken tongues, even though it doesn't say that they gave an interpretation in all of those moments, your understanding is that every time they were speaking in tongues, they were speaking like an actual, even though it was just cornelius in his house, what was the point of them speaking in tongues in that moment? Well, they had to because again, prejudice and racism is not a new thing. The Jews didn't like the Samaritans. The Jews didn't like the Gentiles. The Samaritans didn't like the Jews, didn't like the Greeks. They didn't like anybody. So we had all these people around who didn't like anyone else that was like them. And then even then, you had different cliques. So what do we have? We have the one thing that God can show because the identifying mark of every Christian, I don't care if you black, white, young, old, if you're dispensations, if you're Calvinists, if you're whatever, the one thing that makes you part of the body is the Holy Spirit. And so yeah, you have faith because think about it. At the beginning of faith, who had the Holy Spirit? The Jews. But then after that, you got the Samaritans they believed, but no Holy Spirit. Then what do they get? The church sends down Peter and John and they give validity that even the Samaritans have the Holy Spirit. So what could the Jews never say? Well, it's just us. The Jews have to say that the Jews have it and the Samaritan, but that's okay because the Samaritans, they are cousins. They went off tripping with these other people, but they're a cousin. So okay, that's fine. But then Gentiles are believing and they don't have the Holy Spirit. So then in Acts 10, they received the Holy Spirit. And what did the Jews do? Wow. The Bible says they marvel that even the Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. So now it's a sign that these people also have the Holy Spirit. So nobody can come back and say, as Jews might have wanted to, they can come back and say, what did you say? A sign to the unbeliever. Yeah. And so now you got these unbelieving Jews that, you know what, wait a second, hold on, everybody got it. And guess what it's going to be? Just like, and that's why Paul brings this up. You guys have no excuse. You've seen even, I used you guys to be, Paul says, what benefit is it in being Jewish? He said it in every way, chiefly that the oracles of God were entrusted to you Jews and what'd you do with it? I gave you the ball and what'd you do? You fumbled it. Someone else picked it up and now they're running with you and you're jealous, which is so good. If that's the case, then they were either what, speaking, then their tongues would have had to be in Hebrew for it to be a sign to the Jewish unbelievers, right? Because if they were just speaking some random language, how would that be a sign that they would understand? Well, it wouldn't be in Hebrew. More than likely, well, I don't know what the tongues that they spoke, the Bible didn't say. That's why I said the only time that we know what they said was in Acts 2. But we know they spoke in a language. Now their native tongue at that time in first century Judea, the lingua franca, the main language was Greek. However, you got people that spoke Latin and you got some folks that spoke Aramaic and some folks that spoke Hebrew. Most Jews at the time spoke Koine Greek. So if they started speaking, let's say Hebrew, the Bible didn't say, I'm just, I'm assuming, I'm just throwing out a language, Hebrew or Aramaic or Latin. Well, they know what that is. Like if you and I go to speaking, I don't know in Spanish, I know a little bit, Pocainio, I didn't even say that wrong, in Fuego, whatever. But I know when someone in Spanish speak in Spanish, right? So therefore, all right, that makes sense. Wow, you mean because think about it, think about it. If we, if you start, Marcus, if you go to speaking in tongues right now, right now Marcus Rogers, and let's say you know you're full of the spirit and you speak in tongues. Let me ask you a question. Would all of these doubters here that doubt your tongues, would any of us be impressed? No, I mean, if you, because it's a belief thing, right, depending on what. Wait a second, wait a second. The belief that we don't believe that you can do it, right? Or we disagree with your kind of tongues, right? Well, the Bible says that the carnal man cannot receive the things of the spirit. So if your belief system is carnal, like. No, no, no, no, hold on, hold on. But these Jews that were there, they weren't carnal. These were Christian Jews that were there. How would the Jews know, like, let's say like Cornelius started speaking in Latin, how would they are? Well, no, because he was a Roman. So let's say Cornelius started speaking in some language. How would they know that he just didn't know that language anyway? Well, that's where I'm going. So in Acts 10, we're talking about Christian Jews that are around them, right? Yes, sir. And they marvel at the, at these Gentiles speaking in tongues. Yes, sir. So we're talking about believers who did not believe that these Gentiles would have the same thing. And so if these Gentiles, so if, so if Marcus Rogers, in front of all these other Christians that believe, let's say we believe your tongues are both, we believe your tongues are false. Right, right, right. And you go to speaking in tongues. And we're Christians, we just doubt on what you're saying. We don't believe it. We're not going to be impressed by that, right? We're not going to marvel at you speaking in tongues the way we've heard you or anyone else speaking in tongues. We're not going to be impressed by that. However, let Marcus bus up in Mandarin. Let Marcus go off in, in, in Greek or, or, uh, Hebrew. Why? I promise you, I promise Marcus, if you go to speaking another language under the power of the spirit, I promise you, that's why I asked you earlier, how many times had any, any one, as there ever been a time in the Bible where the move of the spirit happened, and even the doubters didn't believe it. Every time they say, well, something happened, we might, we might discredit it. But every time it happens, it's going to happen. So if you go to speaking in Mandarin or something else, some of the language, even the folks that, that doubt was like, wow, that is, I get, I get your point, but my mom speaks four languages fluently. I got a brother that looks like me that speaks like fluent German. So if I brought him on here and like, you just saw him speak in German, you know what I'm saying? Like, I think people today would just assume like, Oh, the guy knows another language. Yeah. But, but, but I'm saying, but you don't, we don't think you do. Now, why would you think that? Oh, no, Marcus, oh, we don't. Kansmi Sheridan, huh? You know, I might know a little something, something. Why do you think that? Okay. And that, that, that, that, that, that, okay, unfair. Let's just say, I understand your point though. I get it. I get it. Well, if I go to speaking in Mandarin, everybody know, I, I know English. That's all I know. I know, I know English. I can, I can read this, this, this Greek a little bit, this Hebrew a little bit, but it's not conversational. So if I, if I go to a matter of fact, one day I did this one day I was teaching a class and I read first Corinthians 14 in Greek and some of the words, they have long syllables in Greek. And so I read it, I practiced reading it so I can say it quickly. And so when I read it quickly, they're like, okay, well, I said, that's what those are tongues. That's languages. Just to make a point, but no one knows, believes, and I know for a fact, I don't know any other language. Don't know it. So if I go to doing it, I can promise you every single person on my matter is like, wow, Cory is speaking in, these are real tongues. They know, I don't know it. They, if I spoke in Spanish, they would be, they would be shocked. They would, because Cory on those Spanish, so the point is, if you go to speaking in the tongues that we've seen, like in the church, when I spoke in tongues, I spoke in tongues and after a while began to fake it and like, I ain't sure, but the tongues that I spoke sound like your tongues sound like everybody else's tongues and nobody was impressed. Nobody. But if I began, but if the person says, so you, you were saying pretty much to like me, Pastor Vlad and Pagani, like all these people who pray in tongues by, and we say, man, it's building us up. You're pretty much saying that it's not really nothing. I'm saying what Paul said. Paul says, you're safe, you're zealous, but he said, but what does Paul say about that? He didn't say, keep doing it at a boy. He says, instead, be zealous for the, for the giftings that built up the body in the church setting though. That's, that's what I think he said in the church setting. Well, in this point is Paul differentiating between by yourself or in the church setting. He's not. We don't see Paul. The Bible doesn't say in 1 Corinthians that he's going back and forth between by yourself and in the church setting because here's what, here's the thing though. If you prayed in tongues by yourself, Marcus Rogers. Yes, sir. Would I ever know it? No, sir. No, you by yourself. So when I tell my folks, they don't seem to be by themselves. These are folks that are doing it out in public. So, and I says to anyone that you, you believe, Corey, I believe you're wrong about tongue will find praying tongues by yourself and this, this will never be an issue, but if you want to bring it out, you can't, you can't speak, think about it. You can't speak in tongues in front of me and then tell me to shut up. I can't, I can't say anything about it. So Paul is addressing what's, what's out there. And so you can't. So, so fine. If you want to keep speaking in tongues and praying in tongues by yourself, have at it tongues away. But the moment I hear it, what the world did you just say? I don't know. Well, then Paul says, then you need to have some understanding, pray for some understanding. Yeah, I understand. I think, man, it would be awesome to bring Pastor Vlad on here because essentially what the argument is, there's a difference between the gift of tongues and then being filled with the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues. That's essentially what the argument is coming down to. Because if you bring Vlad and you bring Pagani, they'll, they'll make that distinction between the two. And I think that's where it would be a good conversation to have. But I understand, I definitely understand your perspective. What I would like for you to do is definitely send me the plug for that Greek Hebrew Bible. I'll go read it. I'll go study it. Well, what this is, this is accordance Bible software. I use Logos also, but on online live, I have this because it just shows up better. I can go from one passage to the next passage to the next passage and put it in my Hebrew. I got a little stuff that goes along with it or whatever. I think it's, I think it is, it is, and it's just good. So when I, when I talk about something online, I want other people to see what I'm doing. Corey, your Greek was wrong. I had one guy who spoke Greek. He said, I disagree with you. I said, was my Greek wrong? He said, no, I just disagree with you. That's what, that doesn't make any sense. So tell me where I'm wrong. I mean, I'm in seminary now. Why? Because I want, I want to get pushed. I think, I think I know the word pretty well, but I want to, I want to, I want to earn it because I think that there's too many folks that are my complexion and darker who just are skipping education as though it's something that we need to run away from. This helps me to, if I can earn my stripes, improve my point and write my papers and do my research with them, I can do with anyone. I think I can do it now, but still I want to earn that. And so I think that we all should just be committed to going as deep as we can in the word. Now, before we go, I want to say this to everybody else because some folks might be joining a little late. Yes, sir. We did, because I saw someone asked about, did we cover the Trinity? We did. We did. I think that Marcus believes what we believe in terms of the Trinity. He might not be ready to say the word Trinity, but he believes for the most part, there are some things that I think that even now, Marcus might explain it like, okay, I hear what you said, but then that kind of made me doubt and then scratch my head. But then you come back over, I get that. So on the basis of the Trinity, I don't believe that that is an issue that makes Marcus not a brother because I believe that he believes we believe. He believes that Jesus is God. I promise you 99% of you guys, if you began to start explaining, if I, if I said write a paper over the Trinity, you're going to get some marks taken off without question. But again, what you need to know, according to Jesus, is that Jesus is God. That Jesus, and Marcus believes that Jesus is God, he believes the Holy Spirit is God. Obviously, he's God is God. And so he didn't believe that that God, one moment is God the Father, one moment he's the Holy Spirit, one moment he didn't believe that. So we're good. Now, as Marcus fleshes this out and as we give grace to Marcus to be like us, which is kind of arrogant, or as he gives grace for us to be like, as we give grace each other to grow, then amen. And so again, let me just reiterate this as we get ready to close. Guys, guys, guys, ladies and gentlemen, let me drink my coffee one last time before I say this. I called Marcus all kind of stuff. And I apologize. I might have, doggone, I might have to go back and take down one of my favorite videos, the snake video. I might have taken it down. But uh-oh, what happened? Uh-oh. Oh, my battery's probably dying. I can change it out, but I'm listening. Okay. So I can, I can, I can go back and take all those videos down. I can go back and what have you? I said, no, he didn't get cut off. He's still there. He's still there. But I apologize for me saying anything that was unbecoming or offensive. My intent is not to offend anybody. But we always said, man, we need to have Marcus here. I bet, I bet Marcus wouldn't come on this show. Well, Marcus is here and we're having a conversation and it's cordial. And again, Marcus reached out to me. Marcus showed humility. Marcus showed wisdom and so forth and so, so we're good. And if you think Marcus needs to be corrected, Marcus is here. The Bible says if any of you are, there he is right there looking, if any of you with his bald head, if any of you think that you are spirit, if a person has overcome anything, then you or spiritual restore them. If you don't have it within you to restore a brother to bring a brother closer to them, then maybe you're not as spiritual as you think. So guys, I want to thank y'all. This is, this has been wonderful. This has been amazing. And it took me about 80% of the time through to realize that Marcus was bald, which means we definitely going to rock with Marcus. So I'm kidding. Marcus is bald. So that's a good thing. But I love the fact that we can have this conversation. We can sit and talk. I said to someone else, all I've got is what I see on YouTube. And if I disagree, if I disagree, wouldn't it be good if I can talk to you? Hey, what do you mean by this? Or hey, I didn't like what you said. Fine. But I can't do that if we don't have a conversation. And our conversation, our conversation took place, ladies and gentlemen, offline. We didn't come, we didn't, hey, let's, let's, let's get on YouTube and have this, have yourself. No, we talked offline first and say, you know, this might be beneficial for the body to see. So Marcus, brother, I'll let you say some words before we go. But thank you so much, man, for showing up. I really do appreciate that. I enjoyed it. I, I got honest truth. I enjoyed it. I respect you, man of God. I know you're a real man of God. There's no doubt in my mind, you know, saying that you're, you're a real one. You're going to heaven, you know, whether you agree on everything or not. And I, the only thing I would like to say, you know, just give me grace, guys. The God honest truth is before I leave, I'm going to get on my knees and I'm going to pray. And I'm going to say, Lord, is there anything that I failed to see or that, you know, I just couldn't see. And I'm going to ask God to show me. But also some of you, I've seen this comment like a million times in the comments section saying, you know, when is he going to, you know, repent for all the times he was wrong? Well, that was one of the points why I wanted to come on here. Maybe consider that, you know, especially with me clarifying what I've always believed, like, for example, that Jesus is God thing, maybe you just took some information and you ran with it, right? Instead of, you know, studying or researching for yourself, like, I've always pretty much for the most part, you know, believed and said some of the similar things, some things have changed. But don't put it past the point where it's like, well, maybe you listen to somebody say something about me and they took what I said out of context. That's possible too. You know, so all I know is God is going to judge every word that comes out of my mouth. He's going to hold me accountable for every video that I put on YouTube. He's going to hold me accountable for every message that I preach over here at the church. And so pray for me. That's that's all I could say, whether you like me, whether you think I'm this or that pray for me. And my heart is that I just wish we could come together, give the people Jesus, plant that seed. And I believe that if we do that and people have a genuine encounter with the Word and the presence of God and this crazy world that we're living in, my goal is to set them on the path to study and just seek God for themselves. Because at the end of the day, you know, myself, the man of God here, we're all going to have to stand before God and nobody else is going to be there. You know, and so that's kind of how I look at it. I always tell people, pray about everything that I say. Anybody who watches me on YouTube, they know every video I say, look, don't take my word for it. Don't put me on a pedestal. I'm not perfect. I'm still learning. I'm still growing, but you got to seek God for yourself. If you don't agree, seek God for yourself. And that's just my heart, man of God. So I appreciate you. I honor you. I thank you for having me on here. And I thank you just for being so kind. I'm even getting a little teary eyed. I know that's a little extra. I could be emotional at times. But, you know, I'm used to people just, they say that they're Christian, but it's clear like you hate me. You know, like you, it comes out in the way that they, like they, they get so angry and so like some of these guys, man, I've gotten threats and people want to fight and stuff, you know, and you don't, don't, don't do that. You know what I'm saying? But the way you handled it, you handled it with grace. And I just really respect that. And I really appreciate that. And it means a lot to me. And I want to, I want to say that to you. And I'm definitely going to pray about everything that we talked about and just continue to pray for me, man, of God, you know, that I grow and I just want God to be pleased at the end of the day. People might think I'm just saying stuff to say stuff, but that's really my heart. I want God to be pleased, you know, with what I'm doing and I want people to go to heaven. So, amen. We're going to pray on our way out all together. And I bet not to you, cry. Listen, you, you bald, you don't cry in public. We don't do. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Listen, I know, I know what he's saying. I have had people threaten me. I had one guy said he wants to do. So I said, I'll tell you, listen, tell me where your email is so I can email you my address. I was shooting shots back at him, but I shouldn't do that. But, but, but the humble way is to, that stuff gets you after a while. Sometimes folks say some stuff and it's easy to kind of respond back or whatever. But how he, how he did this guys, this was amazing. So this is for, for me. This is for Marcus. This is for everybody that we've disagreed with and disagree with me and so forth. This is for all of us. Lord God, we just thank you. God, we all have a past. We all are messed up. The beauty about our salvation is that you didn't come to say folks that don't mess up. You came to say folks that mess up and no, they mess up. You came to say folks with a past. You came to say folks that are from a broken home. You come to say folks that have broken some homes. You come to say folks who have said some vile things and done vile things. You've saved some folks who Lord God didn't want to have anything to do with you, but you came nonetheless and you paid the price. So how dare we say that nobody is above forgiveness, reconciliation, that no one is allowed to be wrong, that no one can think differently than us. God, all we know is one thing that matters and that is we have Christ. If you are led by the spirit of God, meaning that you place your faith in Christ, then you've told us that we are the sons and daughters of God. And that's all that matters. The other things that's growing in the knowledge of the Lord, that's important. Help us to do so Lord in a godly fashion. If someone were to reach out or we were to reach out, we pray that that humble spirit will be reciprocated. So God, have your way in us, in this live stream, in the subsequent videos, in churches, in our homes, Lord God. Have your way in the body. We pray this in Jesus' name. Amen. Guys, I look forward to seeing you guys later. I've got some homework to go do. I look forward to even going back and reading you guys' comments and the live stream chats, which I do sometime. I'm going to do that today. So anyway, guys, I love you so much. In the meantime, go find somebody to hug, to bless. If they don't know the Lord Jesus, go preach the gospel to somebody in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.