 Hello and welcome to Geneva and this special Sustainable Development Impact Summit edition of the Great Reset Dialogues. My name is Adrian Monk, Managing Director here at the Forum. I'm joined in the studio by the President of the World Ethnic Forum, Berger Brenda, and we are joined by a cast of guests and with the Miracle of Zoom we'll be hoping to get all of them online in the right order. But while we get our links established, I want to introduce two of our guests who are with us online. Alan Jo, who's the CEO of Unilever, welcome Alan. And also Dr Catherine Hayhoe, who's the Director of the Climate Science Center at Texas Tech University. Catherine, thank you for joining us too. So today's dialogue is on restoring the health of people and planet. And Alan, you've been involved already in the Summit this week talking about one of the big measures that's hoping to move us in that direction, which is the new ESG guidelines that you've played a part in helping develop with other CEOs and colleagues at the Forum. What hope can people take from those ESG measures as we move forward? How good are they going to be at upping the game of businesses globally? Well, hi, just making sure that you can hear me okay. You know, I think at the most fundamental level, we've got to recognize that our 20th century business models are redundant for the 21st century. We cannot keep running our businesses and our economies in a way that just borrows continuously from tomorrow. And so we're proposing five changes that business can and must make and that we're making. The first of those is to commit to a multi-stakeholder business model, the myopic focus on shareholders. We now I think understand destroys value because it ignores the interdependencies that we all live with. The second change is to actively price in major externalities in the business that will help address the big challenges today and notably carbon. We recently committed to net zero emissions from all our products by 2039 and a Clean Futures program where we'll replace all our fossil fuel based carbon ingredients with carbon from renewable and recycled sources. Thirdly, we have to operate within planetary boundaries using a circular rather than a linear model. We just can't keep going with this take, make, dispose approach. So we're going to have our use of virgin plastic by 2025, which is just right in the corner. And we're going to collect and process more plastic than we sell by 2025 as well, making sure of course that all of our plastic is recyclable. And by the way, government can help here by mandating EPR schemes rather than simple tax schemes. Fourthly, we and to your point, we believe in mandatory reporting and non financial metrics. The WEF, IBC, the International Business Council has developed a fantastic framework that brings together the best practice, but without mandatory and standardized non financial reporting, investors simply cannot price risk or compare companies. And then the last point is fair value distribution. Of course, making sure that executives are rewarded based on social and environmental metrics, not just financial metrics, that as companies, we pay a fair living wage to our employees, but also that we look up and down our value chain for inequities that need to be addressed. That'll be central to tackling quality in society today. So those are our five tips that we would have rooted by the way in better reporting and non financial metrics to build a more sustainable future for business. Thank you. Alan, thanks for laying out at the top of this session so well. And to you and Catherine, stay with us because we've just had joined two of our other guests and we're hoping to make that three and have a full house. And I'm going to hand over now to the President of the World Economic Forum, Berger Brande, just to begin the conversation with those other guests. Berger. Well, thank you so much, Adrian. We're so privileged to have the Deputy Secretary General of the UN and also President Ghani with us. Thank you for joining us, even if they were a little bit bumpy start. But we are here to really discuss how we can use even the challenging time with this pandemic that is the worst health crisis that we have seen in the century, but still making sure that we will then accelerate our work on meeting the sustainable development goals. If we don't succeed, we might even see 100 million people entering extreme poverty this year. And we know a lot is also at stake when it comes to the health of our planet on climate change. If you think things are bad, no. I think we just have to prepare ourselves. This is the coldest moment we will see in the generation on our planet if we don't start to implement what is necessary on the mitigation side. So Deputy Secretary General, I mean, I'm Mohamed, so pleased to see you. You were behind the sustainable development goals. You fought so hard for them and know you're fighting for the implementation of them. So, I mean, how can we use this opportunity to also make sure that we don't fall behind on meeting the sustainable development goals? Thank you, Borge, for having me and let me just give my warm greetings to President Ghani. The last time I was in Afghanistan, it was a really great trip and it's today such a different environment that we find ourselves in. So my greetings to the President. Well, you know, first and foremost, I think that COVID puts a pause on everything. It certainly hasn't put a pause on climate change nor poverty nor all the issues we had when we shaped the agenda for the SDGs. And so I think it's very important to see that the framework is needed even more now and that when we really think about it just a month before COVID, we were not on track for the SDGs. So, see COVID as not to pause the agenda but to reinforce it and to use it as an opportunity to tackle the goals as we look at these investments. And as I was just hearing from the previous speaker, that is about the circular economy and the investments that we make in not just going along the same business model that we have that won't work. So I would say that the goals for us recognize that the development emergency is about reducing poverty, the investments we need to make in social protection. It is about that the lockdown has created a situation where kids are out of school so all the more reason to get more connected and therefore perhaps leapfrog some of the efforts that we were trying before COVID to get every child in school and to remain in learning. And the same thing for COVID, the response to try to test and to trace and to treat should not stop the services that are ongoing in our systems for achieving the goals for maternal mortality, child mortality and immunization. So it's really just keep it going and even more so and the responses that we have now should put these put the goals front and center. Amina you said that even before the COVID we were not fully on track on meeting the STGs. We should use this opportunity to accelerate the work but we also saw before COVID that inequalities were growing globally even in developed countries. How can we more effectively address the inequality issue? Because if we come out of this pandemic with even the poorer getting poorer and we also see inequalities rising in the developed world we really can see that the fundament on legitimacy of our systems is really at stake. I think we have to question many things first that we don't actually have the data to tell us where the no ones are and where those inequalities manifest themselves. We've just launched the STG moment for the decade and the one thing we had were very many gray areas in the indicators that we use for achieving the STG. So we need to make investment in the data so that people know where to put the money. Second would be we have these stimulus packages that's the first inequality right trillions in one part of the world with almost nothing in the billions in other parts of the world. The spending has to be global everyone needs a stimulus package and spending to happen right now so we don't reverse those gains. Having said that we need to look at those budgets and we need to ensure that in the spending that we are putting this money to reduce those inequalities to reduce the quality of the services even when you get them we found in many developed countries that while everyone was getting health care or access to there was clearly a disparity in the quality of that care. So it's to you know close the inequalities but also the quality of them and to use these stimulus packages we have to underscore the importance of making those investments now. The response now has to be really embedded and invested in the recovery that we want. We cannot have the recovery status quo as we wear before COVID it's got to be different. It gives us the opportunity for a greener economy more circular greener jobs a better education migrating our informal sector using technology onto platforms that you know young people can now engage with the formal economy. So I think you know putting that spotlight that x-ray on what governments are going to be doing with those stimulus packages but again making the call the first call which is this global response needs resources in countries across the world we need to go further. Well thank you Deputy Secretary General last year at this time physically you and Professor Klaus Schwab launched this uplink that is the forum's digital platform for engaging young people and entrepreneurs in working for the sustainable development goals fighting climate change saving the oceans and I can tell you that there are more than 4 000 participants on this that want to know contribute and I think also this year climate change will be a major topic it's also the run up to the Glasgow COP and do you see silver linings at all here I guess the fact that some of the stimulus packages also have focused on a low carbon economy is one of them is there a way that we can really make a difference or do we just have to know focus on adaptation? No no I think there are signals I mean there is always hope and and you do that by pointing to initiatives like the uplink I mean the trillion trees the ocean solutions the innovation sprint this is bringing in young people and the hope is with them but we've got to open up that space and we've got to invest in them and the opportunities that they have to engage so we've seen signals from the EU with the Green Deal we've seen signals responding to what needs to happen on that low carbon emission from Korea and many African countries are looking at adaptation and mitigation with a better balance to it now than we've had before so I'm very hopeful because I believe that businesses and young people are becoming much more innovative but we have to make a lot more effort to get those resources into those environments so that they can profit from them. Thank you so much Deputy Secretary General Amina for your leadership and also to the Secretary General we know that this anniversary of the UN is happening digitally but without your commitment I think we would be a lot worse off so thank you so much. It's now my pleasure to go to President Ghani of Afghanistan and Mr President so good to see you we know that even before this pandemic things were challenging in your country and I would like to just know who you're really coping with this pandemic do you see the support needed and how can we get out of this health crisis in a stronger way and what policies need to change. Well Mr President thank you for having me and it's a pleasure to share a platform digitally with the Deputy Secretary General we had great conversation with last year. The first thing is that COVID is a hyper event. It marks a distinction between the past and the present in the future. Second it combines with four other events that are equally global trends the fourth industrial revolution the climate change inequality in the fifth wave of terrorism in combination what it presents is that there can be no longer any assumptions of stability. We have to take turmoil as the condition the context within which we operate turmoil leads to uncertainty and to risk so what's the guideline the guidelines are people's expectations in public discourse at the local level national level in global level on COVID we've been very lucky we took with first cases occurred in February we took very strong measures thanks in part to the warning and advance notice that we had received from the Emirates the only country that I know that was that predicted the likely scenario was of the Abu Dhabi as a result of that we mobilized officially our total deaths or 1446 unofficially probably it's another 7000 but Afghanistan is probably a case of collective immunity and in that regard we predicted a five phase unfolding unfortunately we are in the descending phase the challenge now is whether the strength will stay during winter or not the impact has been severe because urban economy came to a standstill so we go from projected 3.5 growth to minus 5 revenue loss of 33 small and medium enterprises very hard hit particularly the informal sector where millions of people were making a live deal from daily poverty exacerbated in two respects one is structural poverty those were that were already in vulnerable positions but the second is it produced situational poverty people were able to work because of lockdowns people's expectations very early on I produced the first paper comprehensive paper and program of action in April 1st relief second recovery we changed all our budgetary practices everything that we funded is come from 90 percent of it is come from reallocation international agencies associated with the UN have been totally marginal they've still not delivered a single laboratory for testing but it is what it is collectively what I would say is that that one private sector is done a miracle supply chains value chains were not disrupted the rice and food prices is less than double digit so it's still in low numbers agriculture has been good industry has been hit but the second issue for us is really been regional connectivity Kazakhstan Uzbekistan were absolutely central that Central Asia kept its borders open to us and then Iran was extremely important the other part of this is that we live at the heart of Asia so we live within an open system vulnerability in February to March 15,000 on average refugees were returning a day fleeing from the perception of heavy COVID-19 in Iran we've managed to deal with this now the task is multi-dimensional meanwhile we had to cope with incredible violence since February 29 when Taliban in the United States signed the agreement we've lost over 7,000 around casualties and fatalities of security forces now 4,000 civilians but we got to the peace table which is important now in terms of so I can go on but I will not the main thing is that COVID is brought closer trust between the government and the people we tackled first those who are directly exposed by the first time in our history providing baked bread during the month of Ramadan to all our urban citizens now we've launched a program called the national meal 4.5 million family households which will come essentially to constitute 90% of the population of Afghanistan will be covered by this program I'm delighted that 50% of the community uh councils that will administer this program are women the vulnerability of female headed households girls and in women especially important because we have to deal with the the silver lining we signed a memorandum of understanding with Fortesco uh the largest metal uh company in Australia for producing 20,000 megawatts of power from hydro and using this to produce green industry green energy for production if this vision is realized Afghanistan would have had the type of opportunity for leapfrogging the way Singapore headed in 1960s the way South Korea headed in 1970s and other countries so what measures do we propose I'd like to briefly highlight seven things one partnership if we could have 10 companies to work with us on renewable energy and on one trillion mining word it will be transformative aid at this moment needs changing but it's it's a palliative and people are going to compete this regional connectivity Afghanistan is at the heart of Asia it missed the transport revolution and the subsequent revolutions to deal with connectivity essentially is going to be transformative in the Asian story third is environment we are the 17th most vulnerable country on earth but simultaneously the source for water for nearly all our neighbors and dealing with water resources sun and wind it becomes an incredibly important the other thing is the role of business in value chains and supply chains our pine nuts alone till four years ago we didn't know we were one of the largest producers now it's a potential of one billion dollars a year and in terms of both environment woman-centered development youth-centered development and poor empowerment it's crucial to think through not the recipes of the past here I think the fundamental changes that the role of the state can no longer be ignored I think that we should say a prayer for the Washington consensus and forge a new understanding of global development governance should not be suspect it it is essential that parallel systems to the systems of government in the poorest countries whether it's non-governmental organization whether you in agencies or others or brought within a coherent form efficiency accountability is a must lastly peace and then reshaping the aid agenda so that's I think we have an opportunity to reshape our world and Afghanistan could be a case study for this thank you so much Mr President you also have his excellence is the president of Costa Rica waiting but I have one question and if I can get also a short answer to it I know it's extremely complex as you said President Ghani on top of this with the pandemic but also all the poverty challenges that Afghanistan is fighting you have had a very tough season when it comes to fighting seven thousand security personnel has been killed four or five thousand civilians who are you hopeful that there will be a constructive outcome of the peace negotiations taking place in Doha now and without compromising on the rights for women and others in your country if you can one two minutes and then I'll go to the president of course the the figures I give you are both killed and wounded so just a correction not yet they're not killed second yes we need a political solution to the conflict the promise of the UN charter in the in the universal declaration of human right is our tragedy half of the world made was made secure the other half has been in conflict so we need to try I'm hopeful we will now it's not a discussion between Taliban Americans it's a discussion between the Afghan government in the Taliban we will take measure of each other and you arrive it hopefully at the common understanding but patience is absolutely essential meanwhile the multi-dimensional work of governing has to go on we cannot think unidimensionally just just because we're engaging in peace we can stop dealing with poverty or SDGs or empowerment of the woman the more fact we create on the ground the more peace will become possible thank you so much and thank you also for your leadership I'm so pleased that we have the president of Costa Rica with us we know that Costa Rica has a long tradition of taking so well care of its biodiversity we know that Costa Rica is a thought leader in the field of protecting nature through national parks protected areas but also have had a very proactive policies on climate change so President Carlos Alvarado with the pandemic now are you able to still hold up the flag and continue these active policies on the environment and the climate or are you seeing that the pandemic is also taking so many resources from you that you potentially can lose momentum in this important these important fields thank you very much for the question and also salute the Deputy Senate Secretary General and also President of Afghanistan and other members of the panel the short answer is yes we keep these policies because these policies are embedded in a legacy that we have built throughout the years it's not dependent specifically on the on the moment but those are long-standing policies so we are able to keep those but it's more complex than that I believe this scenario requires us to embrace complexity that's one first concept I would like to to share we need to embrace complexity because some of the citizens perhaps don't don't don't perceive why within a pandemic this is so harsh and within a context of such high unemployment topics such as climate change are still relevant for the present and the future of our countries and of humanity so that's one big challenge and it's the challenge particularly within democracies because there's lots of debate of okay why are you still devoting resources or even time addressing issues of renewable energies or electric vehicles so those kinds of topics at the time that we are suffering other other problems such as the pandemic so I think that's one of the that's one of the challenges for policymakers and from the whole of the world but also that's why I share the concept of embracing complexity if you think about the sustainable development goals we're talking about 17 of these and it is because it's an ambitious and comprehensive framework for real change to happen so we have to feel comfortable working in different fields and addressing different problems at the same time now with the pandemic as well to make change and good change happen so our policies on decarbonization that we launched two years ago are holding there we're working towards decarbonization of our economy we are as we speak we're working on bringing transportation that's clean and electric to change our transportation system but it's true that it's a real challenge and I think I want to point out also that climate change and sustainability it's not only a challenge in terms of environment one of the present issues actually as the deputy secretary general mentioned it's inequality and that has a lot to do for example with education what we're seeing today in Costa Rica but also across the region is that differences for example in education and the level of education within the population are marking who are the ones that are most affected by the pandemic because it's the low and mid-level levels of training for the workforce the most affected because of the pandemic so wherever there is a gap in education becomes a gap in income and becomes inequality and inequality is very dangerous for all the societies and also for the regions and I want to just address this last point on inequality not only within the countries which cause a social distress but also regionally if there is global inequality in the recovery there is not going to be full recovery for the whole of the world we have to understand that if there's only packages to finance recovery as a whole for several parts of the world particularly the ones that are the richest but the rest of the emerging economies in the poor countries do not benefit from that recovery the the rich world and the poor world and the middle world as a whole will be harmed why because global firms and firms and value change will not recover fully because the emerging markets and poor countries also consume goods and and trade why because if they're social distressed in emerging economies and poor countries things as migration drug trafficking illegal situations will increase democracies and also political systems will be affected and this will affect the world as a whole I do believe that to address things and I started talking about climate change and ended up talking about global recovery but that's why it's because it's all connected that's why we need to embrace complexity and that's why Costa Rica is launching also an initiative to have a global fund to alleviate COVID economics we call it FACE and we need everybody to be we need to recruit everybody as a world to have a global recovery and that goes from climate change addressing inequality education and post-COVID economics excellent my question was going to be around this growing inequalities and we know that Latin America is the most unequal region of the world before the COVID crisis and if you look around you know in your neighboring countries but also further south we are seeing a growing inequalities from a very high level so what and my short question and hopefully a short answer what are the concrete policies that you can take in an Latin American context to make sure that no one is left behind well that's a great question if you think about 2019 last year there was a social distress and throughout Latin America for various reasons but you saw that situation growing and the topic we discussed in Latin America 2019 was inequality and now on top of that we have COVID which is affecting inequality I'm very preoccupied for Costa Rica but also for the region for matters of actually stability I do believe our region but I believe that happens in other regions we need the fiscal space to have the appropriate policies to address that and to address the poorest to address the unemployed children women to foster education small firms but in order for that to happen we need to have fiscal space in many of our countries as in case of Costa Rica we don't have that space if you think about Europe if you think about the United States they have enough resources to fund the economic response to the COVID-19 and they will have it for the recovery and in case of Europe they are not only thinking about COVID but also thinking about their green plan which I believe is great but there's not going to be a global green plan if it's only funded for certain areas we need to fund it all across the globe and I think that's the key message we need to put to the General Assembly of the United Nations but not only to governments also this is relevant for private sector global private sector because if there is not a full recovery business is not going to be good and we're going to be leaving people behind so on the concept of embracing that complexity we live in we advocate that the whole response has to be global and just the last concept is today the more altruistic values come together if you think about it with the more selfish values because today the benefit as of the world as a hold which is a altruistic value which which we see as something necessary goes aligned with selfishness if you will because if the whole of the world is not okay your country your family your firm is not going to be okay thank you so much Mr President before I go back to you Agen maybe a very short comment from the Deputy Secretary General Amina Mohamed because Amina you were also underlining at this point that fiscal stimulus could not only apply for the developed world we see the emerging economies are contracting now the most we have big emerging economies that second quarter contracted 20% and there is no real fiscal space and both you and the Secretary General has so strongly underlined that no one is safe until everyone is safe so who are we going to get everyone working together and create the necessary space now to both fight the pandemic stick to the SDGs and also make sure that we don't see hundreds of millions of people just falling into extreme poverty this year well thank you for gay the reality is that as we look at the spending you know those with the resources are looking inwards and and quite frankly if we need a global response they need to look outwards that you know the oxygen mask has been put on your face and you're breathing very well many others are not the knock on effect of the lockdown has been a socioeconomic crisis so I think working together with G20 leaders they have to open up that space and make more resources available through SDRs through ensuring that there are debt stand stills that free up fiscal resources for countries to to use and other innovative ways of bringing in the resources it's not for want of resources we have some countries with 21% of their GDP and stimulus packages trillions over 11 trillion and we're still talking about billions in developing countries so this is a really big wake-up call because every day we spend ignoring the impact the socioeconomic impact creates more instability creates a lack of hope with millions of young people for who that's a very big challenge so we would urge that you know leaders coming to the heads of state meeting next week on finance actually provide and deliver more because it's one thing also to commit which we have seen some really good steps but you've got to deliver and I think that this is really important President Ghani mentioned just earlier that we as the UN perhaps have not done as well as we could have done in Afghanistan on COVID and yes we have you know provided you know a lab that is up and running has provided tests for over 25,000 people and there are more than 30 you know test testing stations that have gone out through the country but it's not enough we have to do so much more and I think that this is where we need the international community and leaders and particularly I would say you know in our countries who have and who know that these resources are available we need to have that response now the urgency with which this has to happen the scale at which it needs to happen has to be unprecedented and frankly the financial architecture in the world right now doesn't work for this and so we have to be bold enough to change that man made the architecture and man can re redo it or perhaps you need more women at the table to help us reshape that architecture but it needs to happen now those resources are urgently needed well thank you so much Deputy Secretary General I think also we will have to mobilize the private sector and we feel a special responsibility for that at the World Economic Forum as you heard also at the start Alan Schupp is one of them CEOs taking a real responsibility in this respect Adrian I no leave it to you thanks book and Alan thank you for framing this hour for us with those five tips at the very top but you've heard from some government leaders and from Amina Muhammad at the UN on the concerns at the top of their list what we've seen in the response to COVID is an extraordinary collaboration between international organizations between governments and business particularly in the pharmaceutical sector does that give you encouragement when it comes to the kind of collaborations that we will need to tackle climate change and the impending climate crisis you know it does give me hope but what gives me greater hope is listening to presidents Kasada and Ghani talk about the important role that the private sector will play in the recovery some companies right now are struggling merely to survive and many but many are not many are doing quite well in our recovery and in that context I think we should be thinking how do we get our own house in order how do we adopt some of the principles I talked about at the top of this session but then we have to go further and see how can we push our industries to go further and we're using industry associations like the consumer goods forum that represent our industry to drive multi stakeholder model and the other things that I mentioned but I think now is also the time for the private sector to set the example for government in some ways by committing to net zero by making bold ambitious statements frankly any company that hasn't already got a net zero ambition of some sort should be ashamed of themselves and as we work towards COP26 in my hometown Glasgow I hope that the private sector in a way will set an example for government to raise the ambition to work collaboratively and the final point I was totally inspired to hear President Ghani talk about how important open borders are our supply chain has performed magnificently this crisis precisely because it's a globally connected networked supply chain with lots of points of redundancy and backup this mad dash to nationalism and so-called local for local supply chains is insanity and will actually cause impoverishment of the world not security so a few thoughts there on how maybe private sector can show the way and collaborate with government thanks Alan really interesting and stay with us I want to put something to Catherine Hayhoe over in Texas Tech Catherine you're a climate scientist when you look at the kind of collaborations that we've seen to tackle COVID-19 is that the scale of collaboration that's going to be required to tackle effectively the climate crisis or are we going to get there you know by small incremental kind of efforts of the kind we've been talking about thank you it's an honor to be here in such distinguished company I think that what we are seeing is the beginning but it does give me hope because a year ago we were focused on what divides us so much more than what we have in common yet what this year has taught us is that when a massive global threat confronts every single one of us no matter where we live no matter what language we speak no matter what our other priorities are that we can come to the table with solutions that we can recognize our commonality that this issue has highlighted the poverty and the inequality that we have in every single country in the world and climate change of course is the great threat multiplier the only reason we care about it is because it affects every other thing we already care about from the first to the last sustainable development goal to issues of economic growth and prosperity so we start to see the beginning I think we start to see a way of hope but we still have a long way to go global commitments right now only have about a 50 chance of keeping us below three degrees Celsius and we know that to avoid the worst of the impacts we have to be below two or if possible even 1.5 and how how prepared are we for that kind of shifts because we've seen the impact on carbon emissions of COVID-19 but we've also seen the impact on people's lives and the massive impact on things like travel is the world prepared to make the kind of sacrifices that necessary to keep us on track to deliver on those kind of climate goals as the lockdown swept around the world global carbon emissions dropped by 17 percent in the month of April and in some countries like China they dropped by 25 percent now those reductions were achieved through non-sustainable ways it is not sustainable to halt industry for everybody to stay at home for children not to go to school and so for that reason as the lockdown passed those emissions bounced right back up again so then you might say well does that give us any hope at all because if even something as stringent as a lockdown could not permanently reduce our emissions what can it turns out that in order to meet our goals for a one and a half degree target to at least give us ourselves a 66 chance a two-thirds chance of meeting them we need to reduce our emissions about 45 or 50 percent by 2050 or by 2030 I should say if the COVID reductions had been sustainable we would be almost halfway to our 1.5 degree goal in a matter of weeks that is incredible when you think about it in weeks now what are sustainable methods sustainable methods include efficiency I live in the United States and one study last year estimated that the US could reduce its carbon emissions 50 percent through efficiency alone then of course there's clean energy which many have mentioned there's providing clean energy to the nearly billion people in the world who do not have it at this time and there are also lifestyle changes which we have seen are possible this past year changes for good not just for bad thanks Catherine and Alan I want to bring you back in here what are the kind of measures that governments and other such sort of power brokers can put in place to help companies like you get to your climate goals faster yeah I think what we would like to see is first of all getting rid of perverse incentives any subsidy for fossil fuels right now should be immediately eliminated we should use the fiscal stimulus government should use the fiscal stimulus that's being deployed right now to build back a green recovery the european green deal is a great example because we know already that the ROI on recovery money spent on green tech and green recovery generate a better yield a better return one great temptation for government right now with empty treasuries in many cases is indiscriminate taxation now I don't want to sound like a turkey calling for Christmas and asking for extra levies but actually we would quite like to see extended producer responsibility charges levied on things like plastics because that money then is recycled into collection and recycling schemes to create circularity in the economy so if governments could beware random taxation and go for more targeted EPR schemes and then the final thing I think is just join the private sector in using next year's series of COP and other meetings including a food systems summit by the way food food on its food waste would be the third biggest emitter of carbon if it were a country so tackling food waste is another area where government can have an intervention and use the food summit next year and both the cops to reinforce or upgrade national commitments around addressing climate change that would really be inspiring for the private sector and doing what I think government needs to do so it's a little bit of a laundry list there Adrian but hopefully one or two ideas thanks very much Alan I want to bring in a last another great guest the chief scientist of the World Health Organization Dr Sumia Swaminathan and Sumia can you just give us a little bit of perspective I know you spend your life immersed in COVID-19 but just to take a step back when we look at the impact climate change is having on habitats on environments the way it's changing the pattern of human settlement and distribution how concerned do we have to be and what measures we need to put in place to stop the next potential pandemic because COVID-19 didn't appear from nowhere and the conditions that we're putting in place through climate change are radically changing the opportunities for viruses and future pandemics yes thank you very much and again honor to be on this panel with all the other esteemed speakers today very inspiring messages as you rightly pointed out COVID-19 the SARS-CoV-2 virus is neither the first nor the last virus that's emerged from the animal kingdom and moved into humans what we call a zoonotic virus and it's long been known that global pandemics or even localized epidemics are likely to arise from zoonotic viruses and that these continue to pose a threat to human health unless we address some of these drivers that some of the speakers have talked about including of course environmental destruction as well as climate change but mainly it's it's what we do what human beings do the destruction of habitats cutting down forests illegal trade in wildlife the wet animal markets where both wild and domestic animals are sold side by side all of these and and of course climate change which is also resulting in a change in the ecosystems which in some cases allow vector insects and other vectors of diseases to thrive in conditions which otherwise they would not have so if you look at the malaria vector for example it's now able to move into more temperate areas where it would not have otherwise survived because of the gradual warming of these areas so so there are many aspects of both climate change which in turn of course impacts health and we often like to say that the paris agreement is probably the greatest agreement on health that the world could have come together for because climate change affects air it affects water it affects shelter and the way people live all of them are determinants of health so I think looking forward everyone is going to now I think focus I hope more on preventive steps against future pandemics and one why one aspect of that is looking at health systems looking at resilience looking at ensuring that we build both surveillance as well as we build the capacity of health workers and communities to respond to these kind of emergencies that happen but on the other hand we have to look at at the underlying drivers of this and that's where I think the link between climate change our natural environment and health really comes in and it's a win-win to address issues like air pollution like you know cutting down on deforestation like moving to cleaner energy because it also has positive impacts on health and through that of course on the economy because we know that you know for every year of life that is cut short because of some of these factors it translates into several percentage points of a country's GDP so I think really we have to look at this very holistically and not in a siloed way in order to make progress and I think both the president of Costa Rica and Afghanistan made these points and as you rightly say Costa Rica is really taking a great leadership role in preserving some of those habitats so a big tip of the hat to President Cassada just before we close up our session I know I know a lot of people on this session would love to get your perspective on where we stand currently on vaccine development and how far we are away from having a potential vaccine to get to the people who so urgently need it can you give us in a very brief summary an idea of how how far you think we're away from having some viable candidates for that for that vaccine sure happy to do that the good news of course is that we have so many different vaccine candidates and development in countries and companies around the world many of them are using platforms that have not been used before in humans like we we have these RNA and DNA vaccines which which are completely new and so they're successful this would again be a sort of a paradigm change in vaccine development and and also because of the investments in technology over the last few years companies and labs were very quickly able to take the genetic sequence of the virus which was made public on January 12th by Chinese scientists and start developing vaccines the very next day so today we're in a in a in a comfortable position I would say of having over 200 candidates at some stage of development or the other and over 35 of these are in clinical trials and about nine vaccines are in phase three trials which is sort of the advanced stages of testing in humans phase three trials are the ones that will give us information on both efficacy of the vaccine that's its protective efficacy as well as the safety and as I mentioned safety is also important because some of these vaccine platforms have not been used in humans before I think looking realistically at when we we would start seeing results from some of these vaccine trials the earlier ones which started in July probably by the end of the year or early in 2021 and in the first quarter of 2021 we should have results from several of the vaccine trials which are currently ongoing it's impossible to predict at this stage which of these and how many of these would prove to be safe and effective but the general you know there's a 20 success rate generally in vaccine development once a vaccine actually enters human studies so because there are so many here we hope and there's also a second generation of vaccines that's coming up right behind the first and after we chose doing everything possible working with our partners sepi and gavi in within the act accelerator to both accelerate the development of vaccines by working with the private sector by working with with countries and companies around the world but also equitable access because a vaccine is not going to solve this pandemic unless everyone in every country has access to the vaccines at the same time without you know consideration for their ability to pay so equity both within countries and between countries is important and we've worked on a fair allocation framework where we go step by step because initially there will be limited supplies which would be probably enough to cover the most high risk groups the front line workers health workers the social workers and then more vulnerable groups whatever they may be you know within those within the country generally the elderly and people with underlying conditions gradually expanding to cover but the basic principle and the message here is that unless everyone is safe no one is safe because this virus doesn't respect borders or nationalities and so protecting everyone within one country while leaving millions and billions of people who are still susceptible and where the pandemic is still raging is not going to bring the world back to normal i think that's the principle we all need to understand and therefore as important as it is to develop vaccines it's equally if not more important to ensure that they could equitably distribute it and both the private sector and the heads of government the decision makers here have have really important roles to play and that's what they're currently engaged in thanks dr swenathan and i think as we close this session i think the example of that collaboration between governments the private sector international organizations is one that we can all draw some positivity from in a time when perhaps we need a little bit of hope to to light the future i want to give a very special thank you to UN Secretary-General Amin Muhammad to President Ghani of Afghanistan to President Kassada of Costa Rica to Alan Jope of Unilever to Catherine Hayhoe from Texas Tech and to you Dr. Swenathan from the WHO thanks to to our Chair Berger Brenda and to all of you for joining us we hope you'll stay with us for more from the SDIS summit and look forward to seeing you at the next great reset dialogue thank you everyone