 Welcome back to ThinkTech. I'm Jay Fidel. This is Community Matters and we have the delight, the joy, the pleasure of Sanford Marata in our studio today. Sanford was a director of ThinkTech for a long time and Sanford has explored creativity in his, in his, what shall I say, more mature years. He has done so many things and I want to reveal his most recent thing to you. Hi, Sanford. How are you? Hi, fine, Jay. Thank you for having me. It's a delight. Well, yeah, I, you know, I really like following you around and checking out what you're doing. Carol Monally and I went to a show that you were involved in for calligraphy, was that a couple of years ago, and then a show you were involved in for pottery a year ago or so, made movies out of those things, out of one of them anyway. And now today we're going to talk about filmmaking. So can you explain the relationship of calligraphy and pottery and filmmaking? Will you please? Well, they all have a basis of creativity. And so each one of those elements, the in-creativity can be expressed. And I believe that we express our true nature through things we create. And that would be the common connection amongst those three things, filmmaking, pottery, and in my case, Japanese calligraphy. Let's talk about calligraphy first because I have a feeling that was your first love. How did you get into that and what did you do with it and what was the experience? Well, it's difficult to say how I got into it because I'm interested in very many different things. However, somewhere along the line, I decided I need to find out who I am and try to discover who I am through my cultural DNA. Consequently, I visited Japan a lot. And in that process, I started to investigate and learn about some of the artistic efforts that are found in Japan. Calligraphy being one of them, one of the main areas in which people express themselves. So I decided to study Japanese calligraphy, which I've been doing now for about seven or eight years, and I discovered it's both very, very inspiring and also very, very difficult. What's difficult about it? It's just writing characters down, right? Well, you only get one chance when you write the calligraphy. In this case, we're doing ink on paper. You do it in seconds and you can't go back and undo it or cover it up or touch it up. It's one chance. Consequently, we do many, many, many pieces before we get to something that we think, well, it's okay. So you throw it out if it's not up to standard then? Well, the important thing to me in whatever we do, pottery, filmmaking, or calligraphy, I guess any art, music, dance is to satisfy yourself. If you're fulfilled and happy with what you produce, then there's no more than that. We don't need to satisfy anyone else other than ourselves. And that's what I believe in. Calligraphy has a specific meaning, though. I mean, you read a Japanese calligraphy and it tells you something. It identifies something. It gives you a profundity of some sort, right? I mean, it's not just art. Absolutely. And that is what really drives me because kanji, which means Chinese word or Chinese character, comes from exactly China. It's Chinese characters written by the Chinese scholars over several thousand years ago and then imported and adopted by the Japanese. So each character has components to it because it comes from an ideogram, which is a reflection of the expression that is contained in that character. In other words, let's say something like tree. Tree comes from an ideogram of a tree, a symbol of a tree, and eventually developed into what it is today as a character. And so if you study that, you understand where that character comes from, then you can learn a little bit about the culture because language is culture and consequently that is what really, really fascinates me. And you see the tree. You learn about the essence of the tree through the filter of that culture. You learn ultimately about the tree that you are portraying. Am I right? Yes, because not only are we conveying tree per se, but then you can understand the etymology of the word. You go back and understand where did that word come from? Where did the language come from? Where did the symbol of the language come from? And that is an important cultural driver for me because I learned so much about Japanese culture and to some degree Chinese culture through in this case kanji. So you won some prizes and contests in Japanese calligraphy, didn't you? No, I wouldn't say won any prizes. We've had some exhibits and some of our work was exhibited. And when I say are, the class that I belong to took a shotle is the class that I attend. We've had some exhibits and so my work has been shown there, but certainly not prize worthy. This is at the museum. I remember I saw your work at the museum, Honolulu Museum. Right. The work you saw at the Atlanta Corner, the Honolulu Museum of Art School, is pottery. We've had several exhibitions there and what you saw was some of the pottery that I did and was accepted for showing. Well, let's talk about pottery. You talk about how calligraphy is different and it's more difficult. And I guess that by inference, pottery is easier. Why is pottery easier than calligraphy? Well, as I mentioned, calligraphy is one shot. You do it once and it's completed usually in a few seconds. Sometimes it could take longer if you're writing something much longer. So say a few seconds to a few minutes, but in pottery you are dealing with clay and it could take a long, long, long time. And if you are not happy with it, you can fold the clay back into a mass and start over again. Plus it has many, many, many steps. So it goes from preparation of the clay to making the piece to a low firing, which is called bisque firing, to glazing and then high firing, or what we call firing in the gloss kiln, and you have a final piece. And that whole process could take a lot of time. We're talking about potentially hours and weeks. So it was a big difference. And you can correct things. You can correct it. You can change it, correct it, add to it. And sometimes when you're working with pottery, what you started out with in terms of what you had intended to make changes over time because sometimes the clay will kind of lead you to where that final form should be or might be better than what you have thought of previously as you intended. It reminds me of that French concept of the statue is always in the marble and the work is always in the clay. You have to find it, that's all. Yes, you know, the interesting thing to me and what I talk about a lot when I talk about how we do pottery is that we obviously need to have the skill, we need the fundamental skill to be able to execute a form. However, beyond that, we need to rely on our intuition. And sometimes we ignore intuition, which is a very valuable aspect of our creativity. So what I'm doing now is I'm trying to get to the place where I'm really being led by my intuition rather than some preconceived notion of what a form should look like. And that is a lot of fun and it's very fulfilling. You've studied it, and you've admired people who have been doing it for a long time, teaching it professionally. In fact, we had a show with you and David, Kimmer was the last name right now. Kurooka. He was from Kauai originally, but then he went to the mainland and became famous in pottery there. And then he came back and you brought him into our studio so we could do a show. Now, how does your pottery differ from David to Kurooka's pottery? David is a true professional. He's way, way, way, way beyond my world of pottery. He studied pottery in college. He's taught pottery in college and is a professional, probably the most renowned local potter, local contemporary potter today. So he's in a different world. I don't even consider myself anywhere near the world that David is in. Thanks for bringing him up, but I admire him. I admire his work. I think he's a great potter. Well, you know, this all takes us to the third part of the trilogy. The art of living comes alive is the title of our show and there is art in film as well. And you have collaborated with a film named Stone, I can't remember its first name, to make a film. And I guess it's a film about pottery. It was something at the Hawi Kalani, was it not? And it's about the potter's guild. And can you talk about the film? Just introduce it because we're going to play it. Sure. The art of living is a series that is sponsored by Hawi Kalani. It's a series, a video of living in Hawaii. And Nick Stone, who was a videographer, invited me to participate with him. He's a ceramic colleague. We did a short film together. And it has not yet been released into the hotel yet, I don't believe, but shortly will be. And so we did a short film, Three Minutes, where we showed a little bit of our work and talk about the art of living as a part of a series presented by Hawi Kalani Hotel. You certainly wedded our appetite, Sanford. So let's take a look at that film right now. And then we can talk about it on the outside. Okay, good. Wanted to know more about myself and why I am the way I am. So I visited Japan a lot. Let yourself almost intuitively follow the clay. Then you quiet your mind and let your body and spirit guide you. And that way we find a way to capture the essence of our being. How do you make it show something about who you are? And that's sort of the artistry. When you're first learning, the clay is kind of telling you what it wants to do. And you're sort of at the whims of it. There's all sorts of places along the way for it to go wrong, for it to crack, to break, to warp. In the process, there's so much that you cannot control. So this is serendipitous aspect about pottery. Starting with the clay, you know, you have certain clay. And that clay can do certain things, but it can't do other things. But one thing that I really enjoy about clay is that it's very forgiving. As you make it, you can kind of go back and forth. You don't like it, you just fold it up and start all over again. Striving for a perfection is not the name of the game for pottery. So for me, it's about the deliberate handmade look. It's those little imperfections of fingerprints. Everything looks like someone specifically took the time to make this. The glaze isn't perfectly even. You can see the runniness. You might see a fingerprint. It might be thick in places, thin in other places. These are the things that you interact with every day. And so I think it would be nice interactive things that you feel a connection to when you hold that plate that you know that someone made this, someone took the time to make it handmade. Sanford Marrata and Nick Stone, nice. That's an art film. That's a very personal experience film. That is a hands-on film, a statement of earthiness, if you will. And it makes you think that this art has been going on for a long time. And in capturing that, you capture, oh gosh, the history of the culture and more. So it must be very gratifying, no? It is. It's absolutely fulfilling for me. It's something that I thought about doing most of my life. And while I started almost 50 years ago, it didn't last too long. I took some sessions at Hawaii Potters Guild when I came home from college. This was about 1968. But I couldn't continue because I was too busy with my profession, my family, building a career. Consequently, it was in the back of my mind that someday when I was able to pursue my art, I was going to be able to do that. And that someday started about 13 years ago. And so I'm very, very happy that I can do something that I thought about doing and am doing it. It's something I hope that everybody has a chance to do in their lives. Yeah, and everybody does. You're a lucky man in the sense that you saw this as something you would return to in the future and circumstances would have. You were able to do that. You're able to do it now. That's very fulfilling. It's great that you're doing that. It's great that we have you to talk about it, Jeff. Very, very lucky to be able to do that. And I just encourage others to find something that they can be passionate about and do it. Now, the film, you and Nick Stone collaborate on the film. Whose idea was that? Why did you do that? Why did you get started on, you know, yet another art for him? Well, Nick is a videographer. And so he is friends with the folks who made the film, who would do the Art of Living series for Holly Coloni. So that was a connection for me in an event. Nick invited me to participate in this video, being fellow potters. And so I was honored and privileged to be asked. And I had a lot of fun doing it. There was something we spent a few hours doing. It was without script. We just talked and did. And the filmmaker recorded in film and put it together. I think it's a wonderful film done in a real low key, enjoyable style. Yes, something like this talk show, Samford. This is low key and enjoyable, Jay. I'm enjoying it. I always do. We're going to take a short break to enjoy that. We'll be right back on the other side with more about how arts affect our community and how they are changing in our community. We'll be right back with Samford Marotta. We're studying the art of life. The art of life comes alive here on Community Matters with Samford Marotta, who is involved in a number of arts and who has built a lot of great things around his art. But you know, I wonder, Samford, what is it like out there? Are your groups, are your communities full of people? Are they young, old? What's the demographic? How enthusiastic are they? And how much vitality do they have for continuing the art going forward? Well, there seems to be a resurrection of arts and crafts throughout the islands. I think we have lots of very vital, vibrant places and studios of people doing things in their art, in their craft, and whatever they're doing to pursue their creativity. I practice at Hawaii Potters Guild, which was formed in 1967 or 68, I believe. We're now in a 52nd year at, next to the Church of the Crossroads in Ely. In fact, Hawaii Potters Guild was sponsored and started by members of Church of the Crossroads about 52 years ago. Was there the Reverend McPherson at the time? I don't know who the Reverend was at that time, but it basically was formed by, as I've been told, a group of members, mainly women, wanted to have some kind of community outreach and decided that pottery would be a good way to do it. And the early teachers at Hawaii Potters Guild were University of Hawaii, either students or people who had just graduated from University of Hawaii Manoa in ceramics, and they were the early teachers. My early teachers were three from the University of Hawaii Manoa, and so it was very, for me, a great opportunity to get my hands back into pottery, although I did take a long, long break before I returned more recently. My wife was there too, in the late 60s, early 70s. She was doing pottery at the Potters Guild in the Church of the Crossroads. But you know, one thing is, there was a large, oh, it was called, it was, I forget the name, but it was in Kakaako, it was an old building. The iron works, does that sound right? It's the foundry. Foundry, thank you. Foundry. All kinds of arts and crafts in there. Little shops you could rent just a few feet of space and do your craft. Were you involved in that? Do you know about it? Were you there? I know a lot about it. I did not practice there, but I spent a lot of time there. I knew a lot of people who did practice there. In fact, some of them who practice there still have some attachment to Hawaii Potters Guild. Bob McWilliams, for instance, who is a recently retired teacher of ceramics at Pono School, teaches at Hawaii Potters Guild. And I believe he had an active studio at the Foundry early on. Yeah. Oh, that was quite a place. It was an amazing place to be because everybody was so alive and so active and so interested and all creating night and day and they were feeding off each other. You know, they were bouncing off their ideas and showing other people their products and so forth. The other thing that comes to mind, actually, is also in Kakaako. It's an ad I think I saw in the paper within the last couple of days about art lofts. Right. Do you know about that project that sounds very interesting? I do. I'm so happy that we have something like that. Basically, it's a place where artists can afford to live. They pay rent and they have space not only to live, but also to create. So they have, it's kind of like a live work environment and it's all people in the arts, many, many, many different kinds of arts. But they come together and have this creative environment. I think we're very lucky to have it and I hope that we can have more of those kinds of environments. And I hope someday we can have something like the Foundry, recreate it, where artists can come together and have studios, have an opportunity to work together and share the cost and become somewhat more affordable than working on your own. Yeah. Land and occupancy is so expensive. It's hard to get even a few square feet of space, much less a few square feet of space in proximity to other similarly inclined artists. And that leads me to the question of where are we going on this? Are kids learning this in school? Do they come out of school with an appetite for art? I include music when I say that, by the way. Do they come out of school with the idea that they will either do art right then or like you, they will someday later do art and they will have that kind of fulfillment in their lives? We need that. You know, great art, what do they say? Great art builds a great community or a great community needs great art. Do we have that in the offering here? Well, that's a great question, very, very difficult to answer. I think it really depends on the individual and the individual place. It depends on if there is somebody who is supportive of the art will either champion the art through resources, money or effort or leadership to create an environment where art is opposed to young people and they can then take it up as a profession or even later in life as a hobby. I don't know if I can really answer that question. I think such an individual question has so many influences that have to be taken into account. It's a question that needs to be asked and I think it needs to be pursued. In our education today, it seems to me that art and music, literature, dance has been put to a secondary place and it's too bad because it really is as important as anything else we study. Well, we talked about the Museum as a venue. We talked about the foundry. We've talked about the art lofts I mentioned and other places where you can do your art. But all of those are private enterprise and I wonder how you feel about the benefit of having government get into this. Right now, we have the Museum, the Hawaii Art Museum, see right next to the capital there, High Sam, High State Museum of Art. But not much more and the government spends a certain amount of money acquiring pieces for that museum, but not much more. I wonder how you feel about government proactive steps here to advance the taste for art, the production of art, the excellence of art in Hawaii. I feel very strongly about it. We need to support our artists, our craftsmen and in all kinds of other creative endeavors, we need to have public support. I think it's part of our culture. It's part of our society. It's unfortunate that today, particularly, our finances get directed to things that are rather short-lived and maybe has some amount of support by the politicians. But I feel the arts and crafts culture are sacrificed because of the emphasis on some things that I feel long term is not that critical. People don't realize and certainly the government doesn't realize that the value of inculcating our youth and our citizens in general with a taste for art, it's not just the art, it's the experience as for you. And it helps not only, what do we entitle this, the art of life, it helps the quality of life in these islands to have those things around us, surround ourselves with beauty and the creativity that creates beauty. So, I really appreciate what you're doing, Sanford. And I hope you can come back and share with us your adventures in art. Who knows where it will lead you next. Thank you so much. Gladly. You're welcome. Gladly. Thank you. Aloha.