 Welcome everybody to another episode of the nonprofit show we are delighted you are here because Fridays are special days and on Fridays we work with somebody from Fundraising Academy at National University to answer the questions that you submit and they're always incredibly different and sometimes they stump the panel and so and that's kind of fun I think I mean yeah that's right flex those those brain muscles moving because we've got you in the hot seat today coming to us from Dittois Detroit, Michigan and he is our bon vivant world traveler and he's at home right now and so we've got him to kind of reflect on things that are going on and see what we can crank up so we want to make sure that we thank all of our partner and sponsors that include Blumerang, American nonprofit academy, your part time controller, nonprofit thought leader, of course Fundraising Academy at National University, Stepping Boutique, nonprofit nerd and nonprofit talk. You can find us nearly 900 episodes strong on our new app streaming broadcasts and podcast format so however you like to consume your information get to us we have so many different topics and so you can find really what you need or whatever might be plaguing you or challenging you at a certain time you can search with us and we will get get you some answers okay this is a really really interesting question and we held this question back for you because we felt like you were the most interesting person and we love our Fundraising Academy trainers don't get me wrong but we really wanted to get your answer to this and so the question is this we just had a job candidate submit their resume without their last name it seems that they wanted to reduce any bias that might come with the use of their last name do you have any comments or advice advice on how to approach this name withheld st. Louis so in the arts world when you are trying out you try out behind when you're auditioning you for music I should say musicians you are put behind a curtain and you are escorted onto the stage on carpet so you cannot hear nor you can't hear a gate which means high heels or men's shoes so hopefully it erases gender and then you can't see what that person looks like you're only supposed to audition the sound and that is kind of that cultural worlds approach to this I think this is fascinating and I would love to get your comments about this. Yeah you know this is the first time I'm encountering this but it's a very interesting representation of today's political and social climate. I think that you can still approach and encourage the applicant to be fully themselves in the process and you know I would still take them for the value and experience that they provide. It might even be interesting if HR would screen applications on a blind basis just based on resume without names right and then pull those candidates forward so that this doesn't even have to be an issue in their policies of how they go about screening candidates. So I think that this could be a nice trend that is developed and people are interviewed based on their skills and expertise solely and then in the interview process sure additional information like their last name and things can be put into it but that's after the screening process. So I think I'm a fan of it. It's such an interesting thing because I when I first read this question. My response was I live in the Southwest and we don't have enough people in the nonprofit sector that speak Spanish and yet we need more people from all aspects of business actually but especially in the nonprofit sector. And so I was like oh my gosh I would be really interested if they had a Hispanic last name because I would think that pulls them up into that category that woohoo maybe we get a dual language person right. So I had to shift my mindset and thinking about this and it's very interesting. It's very interesting. It seems to me like this person has had a negative you know the applicant has had negative situations you know that's led them to this point. I mean amazing. Well we're going to have to see how this goes. I like your idea about if you have an HR contractor or HR department to go through and screen those and then move that forward. Really interesting really really interesting. Okay you know what name withheld you need to let us know what happens with that because I'm fascinated. Milo from Los Angeles writes we're trying to expand our development team. My question is this how many years should a candidate have served in their previous position prior to joining our team. In other words does tenure at another nonprofit reflect how successful they will be with our nonprofit organization. You're wearing the HR hat today my friend. Yeah, you know, there are some indicators, but I don't think tenure is the only indicator that you should be looking for. In my career I've been at organizations where I did 11 months and it just wasn't a good organizational fit. So, I actually just had an interview yesterday where that was brought up. And, you know, we talked candidly about, you know, development best practices not being able to implement them at the organization I was at and founder holding closely to the donors and not encouraging. Communication and even retention of donors. So there just were fundamental things that I felt that I couldn't implement as a chief development officer. So I chose to leave. And that's a tough decision to make, you know, but for my professional career, I almost went on a sabbatical and the whole last year and a half was able to do all of this travel and join fundraising Academy as a trainer. So if it weren't for that experience, I wouldn't have been at this place nor would I have been on the show today. So I think that every situation is unique. Yes, if there are multiple back to back less than one year stints at a place that could be a flag of concern, but not even a red flag, just a gray flag, you know. And I think that with the looking at success should be more around the metrics what were they able to do with their portfolio how much were they able to raise what did they increase in engagement, reducing attrition increasing retention. Those are the things that I would rather focus on than somebody's tenure because at another organization, maybe they don't have the steps in place or maybe they relied on that one person to do everything and they just held on to them even though they weren't amazing at their job, but the org was just strapped for resources and couldn't hire multiple people to help the organization grow there's so many different things that could be the case. You know, movie, it's interesting to hear you speak in that way because it makes me think, you know, it's old school thinking to look at the resume and and attach all these values. And it kind of leads in Milo's question to the first part of the first question that we got about using somebody's last name. I mean, we need to be rethinking how we're looking at this documentation leading us into, you know, the employee job search because it's it's a new dawn and also, frankly, we don't have the pool of candidates that we used to. We don't have people lined up at the door so we've got to be thinking about these things in a different way because the candidates are. I mean, I think I think considering part time remote, all of those things should be the new wave of nonprofit development sure face to face meeting should still be a metric. They can be done over zoom phone calls effective communication. You know, if you have a portfolio that's for a specific region traveling to that region regularly that all still holds, but to come into an office or, you know, in terms of years served in a prior position. It depends on what the job description is as well is this for a more green early career candidate is this a more mid level senior career opportunity. And which case should they have 1 to 3 years 3 to 5 years 5 to 10 10 or more right those are the things that would align with the position. Okay, so let me ask you this is a follow up question when you and you said you just had an interview yesterday when you are talking with somebody in the space and you are talking quote unquote maybe job interview kind of or. Introducing yourself to somebody. What do you focus on as what your zone of genius is like, I guess I'm asking you to tell me like how do you sell yourself. Yeah, you want the trade secrets. I don't know if I can give you those Julia. Things are looking skinny. I might have to go, you know, I might have to go in competition with you. Yeah, no, I think you know I really focus on the relationship development that I've been able to have with the donors within my portfolio. I talked to them about how I increased their giving from the first year to the third year and so on so forth. I talked about how I implemented a development plan and managed a team and looked at the philosophy of philanthropy in the organization and embedded it from the board members to the staff to the volunteers and integrating it to permeate the culture of the organization. So those are a few of the things that I focus on, but really just looking into what the mission of the organization is the value that I see that I can provide and how I can help achieve the mission through strengthening the relationships that the nonprofit already has and prospecting new opportunities for them. You know what I hear you saying and this is me. This just might be me hearing. It seems to me that's a discussion that is much more leadership oriented. Do you think that's fair to say like, because it seems to me, I know you but it seems to me I'm hearing like these are leadership qualities and leadership traits. Yeah well most of the positions I'm looking at our vice president of philanthropy vice president of development chief development officer director of major gifts these types of things that you would need somebody who's been a frontline fundraiser and a manager and has set strategy. So it's a little mix of everything and you know 15 years in this career I think I am well suited to help an organization achieve their goals. That's really cool. I love how you've been able to tie that and and Milo I hope that this helps because I think what we brought up it's like don't get hogtied to that resume and just looking at those numbers you know on the left hand side of the piece of paper. Right. You know where you where you generally and traditionally in a resume would put you know that information but go a little deeper and be thinking about you know what the impact of that person is going to be on your entire team really interesting stuff. And with the major bleed off of talent in the nonprofit sector this is a question that's going to be coming up more and more because we're talking about these things more and more so. Anyway let's go to Gustavo in Houston Texas he writes in we're wondering how to set up a board give or get policy we've never had this in the past but some want to start one up and we could use some guidance on how to be successful. This is such a controversial thing. Well it's more controversial when you put it as give get or get off. I've never heard that but I love it. Yeah so Gustavo I think that you are well positioned to be doing this is something that needs to and just having talked about permeating the organizational culture of philanthropy. This has to be the standard. It doesn't have to be a major gift level it doesn't have to be a huge gift it really just has to be a meaningful gift to the board member and that's what I promote. It should if somebody serving on the board they should be passionate enough to consider it one of their top five philanthropic gifts that they make in the year. And that's really where you want to focus the conversation. You know everybody on the board is going to have different capacities they're going to be people who can make six figures seven figures four figures or three figures gifts, even a two figure gift doesn't matter just needs to be 100% giving. And if there is an additional get policy, then yes, setting that per board member, making it within their network something that's comfortable for them to achieve. And again it's going to depend on the individual board members network you can expect everybody to go and get $10,000 when their social circle may be more young or early family stage or not as well established. So work with each board member on what they feel comfortable with and do it that way. I think you can achieve 100% of board giving and getting to their goals. If not work towards it and be a partner with them as a development person on your staff. Maybe there's a development committee on the board encouraged them to set the example, and so on so forth so this should be a standard best practice across the nonprofit industry. I think so. You know one of the things that I would invite advise Gustavo to look at sometimes what happens is that it like freaks out that board that's sitting in the room around the table that one point in time. And there's no harm no foul and saying we're going to implement this in 24 months or at the beginning of you know year X or whatever so that it allows people to kind of plan and organize and structure what they're going to do. And I'm fascinated. I want to go back to what you said. And the and get. Are you seeing more organizations more boards saying you have to give a certain amount and get. Are you seeing like that because that's an interesting thing to me. Yeah, some definitely do the give or get. I'm a fan of the give and get. And if they don't have the capacity or don't express interest. Maybe it's not heavily enforced but it's highly encouraged. So let me ask you this then movie. Let's say you work for a Fortune 1000 company you're on a board and you have board a board give or get policy. You would advocate that that corporate alignment come for the and get and that you would still have that individual make their own gift. Aside from whatever that that corporation. I think the corporate is the get right but then the board give is totally separate so that needs to be a personal gift in by any means. Other than their time and talent. If you get the hint so. So then before we get off one last question I have and I want to clarification from you do you feel that a board needs to set specific amounts and stick to that or because you use the word a meaningful gift. And again we are all you know in life at different places. I mean from from week to week month month year to year I mean our our economic situations change. What do you think about that. I mean should we say it's X dollar and to get to use your phrase get off if you can't navigate that. What do you what do you think about that. Yeah you know board terms are usually one to three years somewhere around that so planning their giving around their board term. Seeing what they can do annually and it can change from year two and year three if they run into financial hardship or other circumstances come up. So it's not a pledge that is put on the books but a written agreement perhaps that. This is the considerate consideration that I'm going to make for this year and next year and as I'm a board member to complete my term. So I necessarily wouldn't put it in the books as income for the entire time period but I would use it as a guidance to come back to the next year and say for this calendar year you had mentioned. This is what you'd like to commit and so on so forth so I think that there should be specific board member giving pledges and that's going to vary per board member. If they can all do a minimum amount that's awesome but it should really be based on their capacity and there's going to be varying capacity on the board. So the way that I've done it is working individually with each board member to come up with what they feel their minimum contribution can be for their duration as a board member on the committee. So one last clarification. Do you see this as the role of like the chief development officer the board liaison or the CEO board chair. Like who is administrating this because it's somewhat personal and it can be you know it can be a little tense. So how do you see that coming down. Yeah whoever the development lead is at the organization working in tandem with the executive director if they're closely holding the board relationships advising the ED. And if the development lead is on the development committee for the board then they have more access and leeway to have those conversations. But then it's really getting the buy in of the board development committee that this is the expectation and this is manageable so that they again can lead by example and encourage the rest of the board to do it. So it has to be in tandem. But each organization has different ways in which they operate their development committee and who has access to the board and engaging the board. So I think it needs to be a mixed approach mostly. I love that I I appreciate you kind of giving us some of that background because one thing to say we're going to do this. But it's another thing to administrate it and to make it successful. I mean you can sit around a table and vote on something and be all like woohoo yeah team. But the reality is you got to have somebody that that manages and administrates it. So yeah that's why anybody can hire me and I will help them do this. Good job. I love that. That's awesome. Good job. That's that's cool. Good. See you are good at this cause selling thing. Okay. Let's hear from Ron coming to us from Denver Colorado. Ron says we're discussing a campaign that basically fund raises from our employees in support of our nonprofit during the holidays. Our marketing firm thinks this is a great PR tool but we are not so convinced it might become an uncomfortable issue. We have about 325 staff. Most are hourly employees. Wow. This is a tough thing. Yeah. I think there are definitely going to be concerns of pay equity in terms of income disparity, especially with hourly employees. Maybe in Denver I don't know what the minimum wage is but definitely making sure that this nonprofit is above that if you're going to implement this. Those are the general concerns but I don't think it needs to be uncomfortable in the way that the ask is made. Right. Again it's based on means it's based on making a meaningful gift. Even if it's 5 bucks, 10 bucks, trying to get to 100% participation, that's what's important. You know, I think this is very common for annual fund campaigns, especially at universities, even students giving, like think of their income level but they're still doing it and encouraging it. So I think that, you know, is it a great PR tool? I don't think this is going to bring in thousands of dollars but I think you can make a great case for sharing our staff believe in us so much that not only do they work here, they give here as well. So that is part of the story that you can tell. But again I don't think it has to be uncomfortable. It's about the messaging and the context in which the ask is made. Mugi, what about something that would be kind of like a tangent, like a drive. So let's say, and I don't know what their work is, but let's say like a canned food drive or a sock drive or Denver cold, I mean like a sweater and jacket, you know, I mean what about something like that that might be easier to manage for some of the employees and their families versus the cash, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, it really depends on what the campaign is focused on. You know, I think there are great ways for staff to volunteer together, even if it's at the organization or outside of the organization to build team camaraderie, things like that. So I think those are still valuable. But if this is a fundraising campaign, again, I think focusing on 100% giving, focusing on it being at any level, they're comfortable with letting the staff decide what that amount is not necessarily asking for 100 bucks from everybody or something like that. So it has to be tasteful. It has to be meaningful. And the story needs to be right and that's probably what the marketing firm is there to do is create that story, right. So, as long as they do it in a way that is not cringe, I think they'll be okay. Well, and I like that you brought up the educational aspect because we do see that in the educational and, you know, sector, not just universities, but at high schools and all the way down. And this notion that we're going to, you know, participate, it builds camaraderie. It tells a great story. It exercises a value that says, you know, this is what we do. This is how we get back. This is what we believe in. So yeah, really kind of an interesting approach and I'll be interested to know if some of our viewers out there also have looked at this or what they've experienced because that time of the year is right around the corner. And, you know, we generally in Q4 start seeing these drives or these community engagement pieces for our own teams and stuff. So very, very interesting. Well, Moohee, always, always, it's a wonderful time when we have you on the nonprofit show Ask and Answer. It's really exciting to have followed you and your success. And for somebody out there who's lucky enough to be able to work with you, you're hot commodity. So I'm looking forward to seeing what occurs. You're still a part of Fundraising Academy as a trainer. Always. And that doesn't go away. But landing a leadership position with a nonprofit who's looking for your skill set is going to be an exciting thing to hear about. Thank you. Yeah, we want to know more about that, my friend. Again, Moohee Kwaja, trainer with Fundraising Academy at National University, co-founder of the American Muslim Community Foundation. You know, the community foundation system in America is an amazing, amazing network. And it varies from state to state and city to city, but yet it doesn't. It's just such an interesting approach that I'm enamored with the concept. And so it's really cool that you have that part. And we do need to get you on an episode just to talk about that aside from the Ask and Answer because it's a fascinating topic. It really is. Hey, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. And we've also been joined by our partners. And so we want to thank them, Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Your Part-Time Controller, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd, and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out. Hey, Moohee. This is the weekend, the start of the weekend. I hope you get some rest. And you get some reflection time. And I hope that you have a great next week. Keep us informed of what's going on. And as we like to end every episode of the Nonprofit Show, we want to say, stay well so you can do well. Thank you, Moohee. We'll see you again soon. Bye-bye.