 Well, good morning, everyone. You're all very, very welcome to this morning's State of the Union 2021 webinar. My name is Gerber McDonald, and I'm absolutely delighted to be chairing this morning's session, which is co-organized by three parties, the Institute of International and European Affairs, the European Commission Representation in Ireland, and the European Parliament Liaison Office here in Ireland as well. And you're all very welcome to it. Before we begin, let me just run through this morning's running order. I'm first going to introduce each of our expert speakers and ask them what they're going to expect from this morning's State of the Union address. We're a little bit at the mercy of the live stream when President van der Leyen goes live, but we expect that just before quarter past eight to go to share screen mode, where the full State of the Union address will be live streamed and we'll all have an opportunity to tune into that. We think that's due to conclude in and around 9am, and once that finished, we'll come back and going to get some initial reactions and impressions from our expert panel on President van der Leyen's speech. But there will be an opportunity later this morning for you, the audience, and thank you for joining us in such numbers. You were ready minutes before we even went live, but thanks for getting involved and please do take part in the discussion. You can do so by submitting your questions in writing via Zoom's Q&A function and please throughout the morning, throughout the speech, or as soon as you get those questions in, because we are going to have a decent bit of time about 20 minutes or so at the end to engage with all of your questions. So please do join that conversation and if you want to join the conversation, you can get involved in this morning's webinar on Twitter or your social media using the handles at IEEA, at EU or Ireland and at EP in Ireland. That's hashtags I've seen are SOTEU and SOTEU21, but I'm sure there'll be lots of opportunities there for you to join the conversation. So without further ado, let me briefly introduce you to our panel this morning. And really, our speakers need no introduction. They are Senator Lisa Chambers, currently Deputy Leader of Shannon Aaron and Leader of Finafall in the Shannon, following her election to the Cultural and Educational Panel, following her election to the Cultural and Educational Panel, former TD for Mayo. She has served as Finafall Spokesperson and Defence and Brexit Policy, and she currently sits on the Erachtis Committee for European Affairs. David O'Sullivan is currently the Senior Counselor with Steptoe and Johnson and also serves as Chair of the European Policy Centre's EPC Governing Board, a former SEC Gen of the European Commission and former DG of the DG Trade from 2005 to 2010. He was most recently the EU's ambassador to the United States prior to that, the European External Actions Chief Operating Officer. Finally, let's go to Brigid Laughman, the Professor Emeritus and former Director, recently former Director of the Roberts Human Centre in Florence, and we wish you, we just congratulate you, Brigid, on a fantastic tenure. Do I really need to go through your CV? She's one of Ireland's most foremost experts on everything to do with the European Union, integration, policy, institutions, everything. And of course, before she moved to Florence, she was Professor of European Politics and Vice President at UCD, but she's delighted to be home, see some women early every day, and she says she's never, ever going to forget to live by the sea again. So you're all very, very welcome. I might just go to you, Brigid. First of all, what are you expecting? And maybe another question, what do you think might be omitted or minimise this time rind? So I think that this for President von der Leyen, it's her second state of the Union, so it's important. Last September, it was in a way that Europe was still in the acute phase of COVID. So what do I expect? I think we will get that she will give her perspective and the Commission perspective on where the EU is and where her big, big internal agenda is. Remember that the Commission is really driving a very major legislative agenda in areas like climate, digital. So there's an awful lot of hardcore work going on at the moment. So where that is, I would expect her to say something on the conference on the future of Europe. We're very unclear yet, and it's important that, for example, one of the first public events of that will happen in the IAEA in Dublin in December. What she says about the Commission perspective, will she argue for a health union? And then, of course, how will she handle the whole geopolitics? Afghanistan, and that's where I think if there is omission, there might be omission there. She has to say something, but the withdrawal from Afghanistan has been quite a shock to the EU. And so, again, it will be interesting to see how she handles that. Absolutely. And David Sullivan, I think it would be fair to say that President von der Leyen is delivering her second speech at a moment of what we might describe as mixed political emotions. Yes. I mean, I think Brigid has already indicated some of the main themes. I mean, I think there will be some self-congratulation, frankly, about the pandemic and the vaccination, given all the criticism that was early in the year. And I think it is a success story by and large. I think there will be definitely some emphasis on the economic recovery and the recovery fund and the money that's flowing and the economic issues around that, including that the risks to the economic recovery of higher inflation. I agree that the geopolitical question is there big time. The relations with the US, relations with China, I mean, the Commission has promised a new paper on China. We're having the meeting of the Trade and Technology Council with the US in Pittsburgh on the 29th. And as Brigid has said, the aftertaste of Afghanistan has soured a little bit with the relations with the US. How do we rebuild that? I think the question I'll be also looking to see whether she talks about is the rule of law issue with Poland and Hungary. I think there's a lot of expectation in the parliament that she will somehow address this. There are some tricky legal issues about whether you call people out by name, but I'll be watching very closely to see what she says on this. Finally, the thing I, the dog that may not bark, I think it breaks it. I mean, she'll have to talk about it, but honestly, I don't expect it to figure very prominently. I think for most of Europe, that issue has moved on. Of course, we know there's the controversy around the protocol. Marishevkovic was talking to the parliament yesterday, but I think she will probably only make passing reference to that. And let me just bring in Lisa Chambers. I know the introductory speech by the European Vice President has begun, so we expect to go now. Actually, I think that we may have to go into the share screen. Oh, Lisa, we may have to go back and I think that we're live and we're going to cross over now to President von der Leyen. Well, you're all very, very welcome back. Long live Europe. The class clarion caller from President von der Leyen as we celebrated one of our Carolimpians from the region. Just to give you a capture just of some of the headlines there, it is the union without a soul. Information is a public good. Let's be bold again. Let's not create new rifts. Vaccines is the greatest new political issue of our time, putting a price on pollution standing by the Afghan people. What we need now is a European defence union. There's going to be a lot of discussion, I suspect, on that human rights are not for sale at any price. If you don't deal with a crisis abroad, the crisis will come to you. Migration should not be used to divide us and a hybrid attack to derail Europe. We will not tolerate that. Those were just some of the headlines that we captured there from a speech that I know is going to be parsed and analysed in great depth and we're going to be doing it fresh just off the back of President von der Leyen's speech. You're all very welcome back. This is your conversation too. So please send us in those questions for any of the panel and we will take them and we'll put them to them. I first of all want to come back to you, Lisa, the chambers and we will get to defence shortly. But one of the really, really dominant themes that was the start of the speech, it ended the speech, was Europe's youth. Our youth put meaning into empathy and solidarity. There was a real, I suppose, thread throughout that, Lisa, not to leave this generation behind. What were your impressions of that priority in President von der Leyen's speech? Yes, thanks, Dervil. I feel quite good after listening to that speech. I thought she did an excellent job and I feel quite inspired and quite reassured actually about the path that we're going on with the European Union and her ideas. I didn't get a chance at the outset to say what I thought might come up in the speech but I did think that she would reflect on the last year and the handling of the COVID pandemic. I had in my notes I would expect her to focus on youth, on young people, on employment, mental health and she touched upon all of those. I did expect her to talk about digital transformation and climate as well. I was jotting down some notes and covered in sheets of paper here but she touched upon almost, just shy, same as yourself, Dervil, just shy of 20 key issues. There really was something for everybody in the audience. Maybe not everything was palatable to every member of state but I feel that she hit the right notes and addressed the core issues that we all anticipated she would address. One of the things she spoke to was identifying a year of European youth. She said that there has to be a soul and a vision that speaks to the new youth of Europe. One of the things that she has identified is a new youth programme, ALMA, which I think, amongst other things, will allow people to take up work placements across the region. That issue of youth unemployment and underemployment is a big, big drag and a concern, isn't it? It is and I think it's a fantastic initiative that 2022 will now be a year of European youth. That's brilliant and she linked that quite cleverly with conference in the future of Europe that the youth voice and the youth perspective should be core and key to that whole endeavour that we make sure that we bring young people with us. What I like about the ALMA initiative is that Erasmus, as we know really, it's for third level students, not every young person goes to third level, nor should they and not everybody wants to take that path in life. We need to open up the European Union to all young people and make it more equal and more accessible and I think this programme is trying to do that. That's very clever and I think that will be a good success. She hit upon as well the huge sacrifices that young people have made, the time that they've lost, losing two years in your 20s, 30s, 40s, there's a difference. Losing two years in your 20s when you're meant to be in college and socialising and meeting your first boyfriend and girlfriend, all of those key milestones. In your 30s, 40s, 50s, it might not be as much. I think it was important to acknowledge that young people have made the biggest sacrifice in this pandemic and now we're putting our money where our mouth is. There's going to be a budget there, we're reaching out to young people and we want them at the centre of our European policy. So yeah, I think that was a really good and I think as well just to go back to another topic, she obviously addressed the pandemic and the fact that we're still in it. When she came out fighting, you know, when the vaccine programme started, it was a rocky start for the EU and she came under quite strong criticism that the European Union was too bureaucratic, too much red tape, we spent too long negotiating on price and not enough time just getting the vaccines and I think she was very strong to begin with saying we've been very successful, we've run a very successful vaccine programme, we're now helping other less advantaged countries and that's a top priority for the EU and that we have recovered quicker than other major economies. So I think she was clear to point out the wins and the strengths of the Union. I think that was an important message for her to get out there as well. Can I just bring David O'Sullivan in that because David, as you predicted, just say I suppose in the pre-match discussion that there would be to some extent a level of self-congratulation on COVID. What President von der Leyen said was that there was every reason to be confident but that was no reason to be complacent. I think the first round of applause that she received was for that announcement that another 200 million doses would be donated, really trying to make great capital on the European Union's donations as well as the uptake, I think close to 70% of the adult population. What did you think of her self-assessment of the European Union's handling of COVID? Well, firstly, if I can just echo very strongly what Lisa said about the emphasis on youth. I mean, I think this was a very good speech and I really do think that this youth issue is pivotal. I mean, I come from the older generation at this point in my life but I have children and I'm very conscious of all the points that Lisa has made and I thought it was very good that the President really emphasised that. I think there's a huge investment in youth in Europe to be done. I won't come and further I agree with everything that Lisa said and it's great that this is a priority. On the vaccines and the pandemic, look, I think she wasn't too self-congratulatory but I think she did correct the image which was there at an early stage as we know that somehow this was all a disaster and badly managed and everything else. I mean, there were difficulties and there are lessons to be learned because the EU had to deal with this something it has never dealt with before. Frankly, the European Commission was asked to take on this role, which has never done in its life and I think in the end it has worked out not too badly. As she said, no room for complacency but actually there are some issues in some of the central European countries where the vaccine rates are well, are far too low but in general the system has worked well. The common procurement by the EU has been a critical factor in enabling all member states to have equal access to vaccines, which would not necessarily have been the case if we'd gone off in 27 separate directions and I think then her point about a health union, about this creation now of a health emergency response act, there's going to be some institutional argy bargy about this because it's not entirely clear how this will be done, will the parliament be involved and so on but I think it's, you know, once again these crises demonstrate some of the deficiencies we have in the way we're organized at European level and some of the limits of what we can do as individual countries and why we need to do more together and I think the threat of a future pandemic is clearly there and there are lessons which must be learned from this experience and drawn for the future so that we're better equipped to deal with this in the future and on the international scene, look, there will always be, I mean the gap between the developed world and the developing is vast and it's not easy to bridge it, you can say we've given 250 million, another 250 million, I mean these are drops in the ocean, let us be honest compared to the needs but we need a major international effort and I think the EU has already done a lot, I hope we can do more as has been said but we need others to contribute, the EU alone cannot bridge this vast gap between the vaccination levels in the developed world and the needs of the developing countries. Let me bring Brigitte Latham in there, first of all Brigitte, your initial thoughts and observations but particularly with your knowledge of the institutions, is that a, you know, that nod to a European health union beginning with this new Herald Health and Emergency Response Authority, was that an acknowledgement that perhaps the huge multiplicity of agencies that had different responsibilities during the pandemic perhaps didn't maybe initially come together as well as they could, that now we're going to have I suppose maybe an overarching response that will bring together all of those competencies and a not insignificant figure two Brigitte, 50 billion by I think 2022 or 2023, my notes are that rapid here this morning I'm sure you're seeing yourself but just on that your initial thoughts and really is this a response, this new authority to perhaps maybe a lack of institutional I suppose unity at the outset of this crisis. So I think as David said the EU has very limited confidence and only a supporting confidence under the treaties in health, so given that there was really the infrastructure, the ecosystem didn't exist, it clearly is now the case that in order to ensure that future pandemics are responded to much more effectively, there needs to be at the European level, a stronger competence and capacity to coordinate. I don't think that the EU is going to take over health policy, rather it will involve itself in those areas where there really are transnational threats, pandemics are transnational, but also in ways where it brings added value, so I see this as a learning from the crisis. Yeah, no it is significantly and I think that really just she was very I think very, very strong on that role, the wider role that the EU has to play on the global sphere. I want to talk to you all just about defence because it was a very strong statement but what we need now is a European defence union, she talked about how one had not succeeded because of a lack of a political will, she said you can't talk about defence unless you talk about cyber, one of the questions can it be done within the current treaty obligations and as we heard under the French presidency there will be a joint defence someone held with their present Macron of France. David I'm going to go back to you just on this because obviously it's an issue of some sensitivity for member states and including ourselves, the notion of a European defence union is always a quite sensitive one, can it be done within the treaties as she appeared to suggest? Well I mean it's an interesting, I mean she chose the label European defence union, it's ambitious, some would say maybe provocative for some, but I think if you actually unpack what she proposed it is stuff that can be done within the treaties, I mean what I liked about what she said about defence and I really feel strongly about this is people keep talking about battle groups or you know 5,000 troops ready to go here or there, this is not actually the challenge of Europe's defence, what she mentioned is the challenge, it is the new hybrid warfare, it is cyber, it is intelligence gathering capabilities and I see there's a question in a chat from Brigadier General Ahurn about that, so I thought she and it's about the interoperability of equipment because we waste so much money in duplicatory spending across our member states, collectively Europe has one of the largest defence budgets in the world after the Americans, but nobody thinks we get the kind of defence output for that money that other people do, so I thought she put the emphasis on a modern definition of the challenges we face, I mean this is about our collective security and we are neutral but we're neutral in terms of military alliances, I don't think we're neutral in putting a value on the security of Europe and the European Union and our neighbours and I think we can all cooperate together, now the question of intelligence sharing is hugely sensitive, but honestly it is critical if you look what the four years I spent in Washington, one thing I noted was the key role of the intelligence community in Washington in helping to define policy in terms of security and we're lacking that, so that is right, the cyber is right and I think the interoperability, so I think she's hit the right headlines and we should look at the substance and not be sort of distracted by a phrase like oh defence union, European army etc, it's about how we collectively better ensure the security of our citizens. Yeah and David she really captured that you know when she was saying that you know speaking to this kind of new type of world we're in the you know the higher threats of confrontation, regional rivalries she said and I'm paraphrasing again because my writing is quite quick what she was saying is you know we don't need missiles, all you need now is a laptop and I wanted to share with you before I go to Lisa Chambers a question from a retired general and Brigadier General Jarrah-Hearn who's a member of the IIEA, he says the speech admits the deep desire for a sharing of available of full spectrum intelligence or information on all issues within the union, this admits to a dependency and not an independence of collection or analysis of dissemination of intelligence on the part of the EU as an entity. This essential independence of capability by the EU does not exist simply because the EU member states especially the larger ones to date will simply not exceed to that EU independence, he's wondering how can this barrier be overcome and many many thanks to Brigadier General Jarrah-Hearn for your for your comment. Lisa just on that it doesn't matter less that we use a term that's challenging for some such as European Defence Union and that it is more as David said speaking to the substance and to the reality of the newer challenges that we face. If you could just unmute yourself there. Thank you terrible apologies and it does matter words matter and the title and the description we use absolutely matters. So when when she spoke about a European Defence Union it was the only point of the speech where my jaw dropped and I thought this is going to get a reaction here in Ireland and because it's always been a debate whenever we have a treaty debates or for example a couple of years ago when I was a Defence spokesperson for my party the Pesco debate was high on the agenda here in Ireland and it always focuses back when we discuss it here in Ashley it focuses on boots on the ground and army and that's not what she's talking about. You know we are in a new space and she spoke about the different threats that we now face as member states and as a union cyber threats the arms race and space so it is you know as a small member state it is of benefit to Ireland to work collectively with other member states to pool our resources on things like intelligence information sharing and tackling cyber threats and we only have to look to the recent attack on the HSE here in Ireland and the devastating impact that that cyber attack had on our country and we're still dealing with that in the middle of a pandemic so we need to work with other member states it's in Ireland's interest to do this but to do that we have to have an honest conversation and a discussion here domestically on what that looks like and what it means and answer all of those questions people have genuine concerns you know and I think we have to be very upfront in answering those questions and having that debate it's going to take us some time so to answer the question posed by Brigadier General Gerard Hearn how do we overcome those obstacles or those barriers I think the conference that's going to take place under the French presidency that's a really good step that's a clever move by Macron actually because this is a clear priority for the French government and the French president to move on this issue and that's his stamp I think on that particular address that the boundary line gave today so that's a step forward and I do think that member states are becoming those that might have been more reluctant to engage in these types of debates I think are in a different space now and because they're seeing the threats of cyber at home and on their own doorstep no country is safe you know and we always thought as Ireland is a small military neutral country not an entirely neutral country that we were somehow protected or untouchable I think we've now seen first hand that we're not so it's an important discussion that we'll have to have here domestically and I hope that we will engage fully in the plans for that that EU conference between on defence and just on that Brigadier Laugh and Clota Queen who's a defence researcher at the IIEA you know says what are the panel's expectations on the summit on European defence with President Macron how might this align with the strategic compass process to be finalised in early 2002 which I think is also under the French EU presidency words as Lisa says do matter I presume that those words European Defence Union were considered very very carefully before they were included in that speech yes indeed because the EU tends to think of projects so defence union is a project the health union it's a project projects then involve all sorts of processes institutions discussions deliberation and then if they then mature then you get policy you get instruments and you get action so I regard the defence union label as a label that encompasses all that David and Lisa spoke about all the things that Europe absolutely needs to work on because we have I thought her reading that Vonderlein's reading of global geopolitics was very subtle I think she was careful she talked about regional rivalries tech sovereignty vulnerabilities she talked about hyper competition in other words the EU and Europe and Europeans we've got to wake up to the fact that the world beyond the borders of Europe is not quite secure not settled not stable and that we're really at a switching time in world history where she used the phrase new world order she's right and the kind of world that's emerging now from you know relations between China US the rule of Europe the neighborhood all of that and I think one of the problems in Ireland and I say this in Ireland that we have part of our society is extraordinarily international and even parts of our state structure are extraordinarily international the IDA MTMA and all these institutions but we can also descend to a lot of inward thinking and small island thinking and the reality is as Lisa said the HSE was taken down by cyber from another country so I think we need also a discussion in Ireland about how a small country manages to have a contribution that shapes a world that's going to be very different and I think that that will involve defence and security and I don't think it's about boots on the ground but I do think that it will be about what I would call Europe's collective capacity will Europe have the collective capacity to tackle climate tech digital cyber etc etc and that's really where we are and I think it's not that Ireland or any other small state is absorbed into the EU system doesn't have agency and voice but rather we have to look very carefully at the environment and I'm going to come back to climate later but I want to pick up on something you said there Brigid and I'll throw it to David Sullivan and David Brigid said that you thought that President von der Leyen was quite subtle in some respects I thought on China and a couple of other issues including US and climate change but also China that she wasn't very subtle at all in fact I thought there was some sort of very strong if not quite denouncements but pronouncements on a number of issues that I felt that she was sending a message out to those to those wider allies and partners. Yes if I can just go back to briefly to what Brigid said I mean I think the the issue in Ireland is we've never really had a debate about national security we don't have a national security policy we must be one of the few countries in the world doesn't have a national and I think that's the debate that I think Lisa was referring to in others I think that's the debate we have to have because if we want to plug into or object to a European security policy we need to decide what our own security policy is and I don't think it's simply defined by military neutrality. And you know what David we just have a comment from Peter McNamara who supports that he said I feel it's time we confronted the ignorance around Irish neutrality and took a poll on attitudes to it an information campaign needs to be launched to inform prior to this could the EU facilitate this please but echoing your kind of views that we haven't really had a mature or significant public debate about those issues. This place to focus on neutrality frankly I mean neutrality is you know we can talk about it but the real issue is what's our national security strategy how are we going to protect this country and what can we do ourselves and what do we need to do collectively with others so that's the point. Yeah I also thought she was quite tough on China I thought the global gateway I mean we knew this was coming is clearly a competitive proposal to the One Belt One Road initiative and to Chinese investment in our neighborhood but also going towards the Indo-Pacific so I thought what she said about forced labour was clearly a targeting production in China so yeah I thought she was I mean I thought what was interesting and what I actually quite liked is she didn't kind of go through every bit of the world you know she had a passing reference to the US the importance of the transatlantic alliance but she didn't dwell on it China again so she didn't try to sort of box tick references to everyone it was more implicit as as Bridget said in the substance of what she was saying so you would imply a reference also to Russia in some of the stuff she did mention Belarus rightly because I think the weaponization of of the migration has been frankly obscene so I I think I thought she was quite quite outspoken I look forward very much to see what the paper on China which is promised for this is going to say because this is one of the defining issues of the 21st century for us all you know. And what she said Bridget Lappen in respect to China was she raised the question again is that she welcomed some of the declarations and climate but she said that how will China get there so looking for more detail as to how that would be done and obviously a new strategy in terms of the global gateway citing a team global approach perhaps in order to the team Ireland moniker that we have but and what really kind of in a way sort of inviting China to to step up on its commitments and to particularize them on climate. Yes and I mean Europe's EU's attitude to China has shifted over the last couple of years I think one of the things that that we haven't talked about of course is that background that this state of the union takes place at a time when there's a very significant German election coming up and a very significant French election coming up so we're at a time where politics on the continent is shifting and so I think for a lot of the EU in the world the next German government will be very important because Germany has always tried to divide the world into there's commerce and we keep exporting and then there's all the geopolitics and we try to keep that separate but that can't be separated including with China for all of the reasons that you said in the future so I think it would be it the next state of the union will be very interesting because it will come after those very important elections because of course she also the commission as an institution relies very much on getting buy-in from the capitals but I do think on China I agree that she was more vocal when I used the word subtle it was more about the way in which she depicted the shifts that are happening I think she was clear on China and she's right I mean she's right on climate she's also right on forced labour China should not get a pass into the markets of other countries particularly the single market a massive market easily it needs to be confronted on on both domestic issues but also the parallels of working from home I wanted to speak to you all just about Afghanistan and because President von der Leyen was very very strong on Afghanistan and paying tribute to the soldiers diplomats and others and also to particularly the Afghan Afghanistan judges and others and very strong on the theme of women and Lisa was that an important statement or commitment to make do you feel absolutely I think it was expected that she would address the issue and I think she did it in a very comprehensive way and again announcing an extra 100 million in aid from the European Union to the people of Afghanistan and very dearly saying we stand with the people of Afghanistan I thought it was interesting that she focused on on women and then those defending human rights and those protecting the rule of law so she actually linked the rule of law issue to the whole debate around Afghanistan which I thought was very was very good and appropriate and you know she focused on women children judges and that I thought it was quite striking when she spoke about the female judges who are now fleeing from those they have put away I think it painted a very grim picture to really to really humanize what's been happening which is just and I think she very correctly pointed out that it it is very close to becoming a humanitarian disaster and we have a responsibility as global citizens and as a union to do something about that and I think that was her subtle way of sending a message to the United States as well. I think so and one thing I know we won't get to anything but Richard Laugh from one thing that really struck me that I was delighted to see an inclusion on not just enforced labour and she was very strong human rights are not for sale at any price but the shadow pandemic of domestic abuse and violence against women around the world and I was heartened to see that. Yes indeed I mean I think and and we haven't talked about the fact that Vonderlein is a woman but I actually think that we can see in her speeches she she does she has empathy and she does respond to to to to particular challenges that women experience both in Europe and globally and she always she uses women also very symbolically her use her her the fact that she had invited the Italian the wonderful Italian fencer the Paralympic to be there and to receive so I think she actually is in her again she's putting her stamp on the state of the union and on her own as commission president and it was a very rocky start she wasn't the Spitzon candidate she had the pandemic etc etc so I also saw a more confident Vonderlein today. Yeah absolutely and as I say it was it was good to see that included David we spoke earlier at the outset about what we might expect to see included and what might be omitted or minimized migration did get a a call in what wasn't mentioned which is obviously a huge significance here in Ireland was Brexit and I'm wondering and you just saw the hazards of the zoom here with me there just a few moments ago but I'm wondering with Brexit has has the European Union decided and to to mute that issue. Yeah I think I said in our pre-match commentary that I thought it might get a reference but it wouldn't be dealt with extensively in fact she chose to to not talk about it and that was a conscious decision I think probably the right one in terms of sending a message to British government that you know the EU may be on the front pages of British use papers every day but actually the rest of Europe has moved on the UK has made its decision there are issues there there'll be complex negotiations that will go on for a long time but basically we're now going ahead with with our plans and our projects and we will deal with the relationship with the UK as with any other close neighbour of course for Irish people it's it's a completely different calculation because it's intensely emotional and and and real for us. I think there has been a conscious decision as Tony Connolly has been pointing out in in his articles over the summer I think they decided that the British government was using a tactic of constantly escalating trying to suck the EU into a confrontation because it fueled domestic politics and then they do substance it just was about creating a sort of bogeyman that you could play to your domestic political base the EU has decided not to play that game so we've taken a much more low-key approach on the protocol but heavily invested I'm in Marysheff which is heavily invested in the time he was in Dublin he was in Belfast he's going to go back he's going to come out with very concrete proposals to address the real practical issues that are there in the implementation of the protocol but I think he wants also to work more with the institutions in Northern Ireland to give them a sense of homesick ownership but of of of having a voice in how all this works and I think that's the strategy of the commission I think they don't want to make this a sort of daily megaphone diplomacy now there are there's unease on the part of some member states about all this because the the good faith of the UK government is very much in question in all of this but I think people for the moment are going to sort of try and play it down and see if we can just play this long and and deal with the issues as they arise but in a very pragmatic and low-key way and I think that's reflected in the fact that she chose not to talk about the issue yeah Lisa Chambers Colin Rafter former GFA says how do we interpret the lack of any mention of UK Northern Ireland or Brexit Emily Binchie who's a Justice Research the IA says Brexit was no be absent from President von der Leyen's address even in naming reliable partners would the panel take this as reflect of a will to move on from years of a Brexit dominated agenda or does it is it something more pointed you're a former Brexit spokesperson what was your your your sense of the the omission of the B word yeah I'm really happy that she didn't mention it at all I think that's a good thing I don't think we should be in any way upset or take it as a slight against Ireland that it wasn't mentioned it doesn't mean that the Commission and the European Union are not focused on assisting Ireland in the difficulties that we continue to have with Brexit and and David pointed out Mara Sethkiewicz you know has met himself very much available to Ireland to the Parliament at all levels in terms of rock this committees and speaking to the different ministers so they're very much working with Ireland but it was really important this was a speech where we are emerging from a global pandemic and Brexit was also a threat to the Union it was a destabilising process that had you know a significant detrimental effect on the European Union when it was at its at its height so I think it's really important in a speech where she was talking about recovery and charting a pathway forward in the future of Europe and it was about positivity and moving forward I think it sent a very strong message you're not being mentioned because you're not part of our future and we're not going to waste any more valuable resources and time in what David rightly said playing into that domestic political agenda in the United Kingdom which does not serve the interests of the European Union or of Ireland so I think it was clever I think it was appropriate and as I said I was pleased that it wasn't mentioned because I think it sent an even stronger message than even a slight nod to the topic was but as I said I think Ireland's interests are still very much to the fore and we shouldn't be in any way concerned that it wasn't mentioned in this speech I think quite the opposite actually. Bridget you know it's been a speech of interest when economy is one of the last issues that you're getting to instead of the first President von der Leyen said the commission will relaunch the discussion on European governance ahead of 2023 again struggling with my own handwriting here but she spoke about the success 30-year anniversary of this single market as the great enabler I think as she described it of progress as she said the single market was critical for a digital single market and just one of the questions there that we have from Darius Alexander she says in the State of the Union document on the AC website research and innovation is mentioned as having contributed vaccine development and in the interest demonstrated in the first great deal call in Horizon Europe and also in terms of her as we talked about that new authority she said however it wasn't really mentioned during her speech in terms of its value in addressing priorities other than the EU chip ecosystem and she outlined so I suppose it's a question that speaks to the economy and and this new kind of departure in terms of growing international partnerships how did you feel she did on the economy front. So I think that she really wanted to focus on the European chip because she saw that as the vulnerability supply chain issue so she used a lot of her time on that for a very specific reason on the wider economy I thought what I took was firstly lessons from the eurozone crisis it's really important that a commission president said we have learned some lessons from the eurozone crisis she also flagged that growth had returned and so I think broadly on the economy it is firstly there's an immediate recovery but there are all these longer term structural shifts and for her this was digital and then she focused on the chip and I think she's right on the role of research and development the the EU this year is launching Horizon Europe which is a massive massive research and innovation program so I don't think the fact that she didn't major on it is remarkable one way or one way or the other of course how Europe adapts to these structural shifts in the economy and how it manages to do so in terms of welfare and social justice that's also when she began to speak in French she began to speak about the social market economy and all of that so I think Europe will be challenged in the next phase in terms of of of the digital transformation but at least her speech says that she and the commission are fully aware of it she said there's buying in the member states so again this is a set of processes that are that are will gather momentum so I I thought on the economy again I thought it was I thought it was a strong speech yeah and David a digital president von der Leyen said is the make or break issue yes it is I mean we shouldn't neglect the fact that there are you know there are still a lot of unfinished business out of the the eurozone crisis so we still have the the revision of the stability and growth pact we still have banking union we still have capital markets union and as she mentioned there's going to be the vexed issue of taxation so there's a huge agenda there in the economic which she only sort of glanced glanced upon and I don't blame her because there's not a lot that she can say that that the stuff is on the table it's being discussed and and we hope it will it will come to a successful conclusion and the question of when because Darryl Lawler says do you foresee there being a conclusion to the debate on fiscal and deadline or fiscal rules by the deadline of 2023 given David all you've outlined there and is that quite ambitious it's ambitious but I mean I I I think I mean I think she was specifically referring there to taxation and to what's happening with the OECD and the fact that if there is finally a deal there it will have to be translated into European legislation I think we know this is very difficult for Ireland but I think in Ireland we have to be clear eyed that this is an agenda that's going ahead and at some point we're going to have some some some tough choices so I think there will be a big push on this issue and I think it's not unrealistic to say that it could be resolved in that time frame frankly but the the the economy you know she put the emphasis on the positive and she's right because people tend to talk down the European economy too much and she's right that we're growing faster there is a quite a big bounce back there's some worrying news on the inflation front I mean the ECB is still not clear you know exactly how we're going to manage the sort of phase out of the of the public spending all member states are going to face challenges and we will in Ireland about how to wind down the heavy degree of public spending which went with the pandemic how you face that how you eventually address the issue of debt overhang which is going to be a problem for many countries and also issue David the whole question of rising energy prices which is going to be a huge challenge across the region and also a potential I suppose threat to the to the Green Deal Brigid Laughan it's some tough choices ahead very tough choices ahead but the Green Deal that you know over 90 different pieces of legislation half of them are on the table many of them are not yet adopted but the kind of transformation we're all facing in our societies to handle climate the climate challenge is just it's it's we've got we've started but we've a long long way to go and again it's transformative so very tough choices but I think you know we can have floods and fires so we've got to accept what science is telling us that we can't delay the adjustments any longer across the world not just in Europe you can't negotiate with nature as people say you know yeah we've had so many questions I really want to thank everybody at home or wherever you are for all of your engagement with it I won't be as crude as to ask for marks out of 10 but I just finally before we head off and for the morning I might just go to each of our panelists just for some final thoughts or closing remarks on the speech and I'll begin with you at least the chambers and if you unmute yourself if you can you think I'd have gotten the hang of it my apologies and no I think it was I think it was a very good speech I think she was inspiring she hit the right notes there was the appropriate focus on on young people on youth and driving the agenda for the European Union as I said she left outbreaks of which I think is actually a good thing for the EU as well her focus on climate there was a last topic we discussed I think was very strong and she said about if you don't believe what's in front of your eyes believe the science and she referenced the IPCC report as well and you spoke about Europe doing its its part and publishing the appropriate legislation the first major economy to publish legislation making it legally binding to reach certain targets and calling out other economies that are not doing the same things that was a very important point and I think her her notes on Afghanistan on human rights rule of law again very appropriate I think the two takeaways for Ireland the two things that maybe will be will give us something to mull over in the coming weeks and months were her comments on a defense union I think that's going to spark a debate here nationally and also her comments on taxation the need for minimum corporate taxation rates that the companies benefit from the infrastructure from the education of our citizens and its own right and fair and just that they pay their fair share of taxes again I think they're the two key takeaways that as I would see for Ireland to kind of to grapple with in the coming weeks and months and just thanks to all of the participants as well it was fantastic and a pleasure to join everyone this morning and yourself Derva for chairing really engaged Dave Russolevin and your predictions were on point what are your closing thoughts following the speech this morning I thought it was an excellent speech I mean I've I've been involved in a few of these in my time I thought that was a very professional well well put together hit all the right points I mean I like the fact that she combined the sort of big picture the climate change the global Europe and all of that with some of the slightly softer stuff youths I liked the the emphasis on women I agree with Bridget that this is something that she had brought and I thought she got the you know those little bit of showman razzmatazz having the the Italian investor there borrowing a little bit from the kind of state of the union stuff you see in Washington but still full of content but well presented and I must say generally speaking I think she made the best possible presentation we know that there is some grumblings in the parliament and elsewhere about the commission relations are a little bit strained I think this speech will have done but gone a long way to convincing people that she really is someone who heads a commission that has ambition ideas is sensitive to the human dimension of everything that we're doing and at the same time has an agenda so but it's it's a vast agenda and we should not underestimate the challenge for all of us to help her deliver because it's not she who has to deliver it's it's it's all of us it's it's it's the government's member states the parliament so I know very good speech yeah and and finally Bridget laughing long live Europe she was really really energized at the end of that speech it's real they're hard into into that what were your thoughts on the state of the union the dominant word in last year's speech was fragility this year it was confident it was strong confident purposeful and a speech for the future it wasn't talking too much about legacy stuff it was really very focused on the future and I think that's obviously the important contribution the EU makes to all of them its member states and peoples is that it helps forge the future because we're too small on our own so that that emphasis on the future the emphasis on young people the balance between the sort of internally you and and and the external and as I said earlier she brings that empathy and she understands that she must connect with with people and not just with institutions and with member states can I say in relation to Ireland I'm I agree fundamentally with what Lisa has said about defence and taxation but I would like to make a broader point and that is that these are very big projects we heard about today and there's huge led legislative agendas behind all of them and it's really important because our system had to focus so much on Brexit over the last number of years that we almost should do a stress testing of the of the administrative and political management of our engagement with Brussels and the other member states at this stage just to check are our systems robust enough it to for that vast array of collective collaborative policy making that's coming down the tubes in Europe and I think that's something because of Brexit that we really you can only focus on so much I would think someone in government needs to start thinking about is the system overall capable of managing and contributing to the development of EU policy but also protecting Irish interests in that. Really that institutional robustness on behalf of the IAEA the European Commission representation Ireland and the European Parliament liaison office in Ireland I want to thank all of you for your intense and fantastic engagement this morning and personally I'd love to thank David Bridget and Lisa for making my job as chair such an easy and thoroughly enjoyable one I hope that you like me have really enjoyed this morning I'm sure it will be available and to look back on the IAEA's website on others but I hope you continue the conversation and thanks a million for joining us this morning