 Okay, I think we're ready to start now. So, first of all, welcome everybody to the first press conference of EGU24, Europe's largest meeting of geoscientists. We're very excited to have four exceptional speakers join us today to talk about their research. And this year's General Assembly is in fact now our largest General Assembly ever with almost 20,000 abstracts submitted. So it was a tough decision to pick the exact science that we needed to present in these press conferences for your interest today. I would like to introduce our speakers each in turn. They will give their presentations and then we will hold for questions and answers at the end of the session. If you are joining us virtually, if you could please mute your microphones for the moment until the question and answer session has started. And then we will be able to allow you to unmute and ask questions at the end. This press conference is press conference number one, which is titled Climate-Compatible Energy in an Uncertain Future. Our participants today are Rasella Ioannani from the European Funding Development Warrant Hub in Italy, Eliza Koller from RWTH in Aachen in Germany, Yasa Haddad from the Institute of Atmospheric and Climate Science at ETH Zurich in Switzerland, and Dirk Jan van der Ven from the Basque Centre for Climate Change in Spain. We will start our presentations today with Rasella and I will hand over to her now. Thank you very much. Thank you. So first of all, good afternoon to everyone. It's very good to be here with you today. As was said in the presentation, I'm a physicist and I'm working in Warrant Hub for I think almost one year and a half. Warrant Hub is a consultancy company and we are focused on European projects. So I'm here today to present to you one of our newest projects which is called Hydra and the topic around which the project focus is hydrogen and in particular the development of the hydrogen economy in the future. There's been much talk about hydrogen also in the general media. First of all, because it is considered to be renewable since it can be produced from renewable energy sources. And so it is considered carbon free and a way to decarbonize the energy sector and also other sectors, for example, the transport or industrial sectors. And it is clean because it doesn't emit anything other than water vapor and energy when you use it in principle. And it has a very big number of uses, not only as a way to decarbonize the sector I mentioned before, but also it's a way to store energy, which means that you can use it to stabilize the grid, but also since it is transportable to give energy to remote areas. So it has many good characteristics and it is considered one way to reach the goals of the European Commission in the future. There are some drawbacks related to the fact that there are different ways actually to use and produce hydrogen, which can be linked to pollutant emissions. If you don't use renewable energy sources to produce it, for example, and of course about the cost of the technologies because we are at the very beginning of the development of the hydrogen economy, which means that technologies are still rather costly. And also if we intend to bring it in our distribution network, we have to invest also in terms of infrastructure. So of course, we are still at the beginning and the cost is still high. There are also some papers about possible climate impacts of hydrogen, which is not a direct greenhouse gas, actually, but it interacts with the other gases in the atmosphere and can create some impacts in terms of warming. But we don't know actually how this impact will be meaningful in the future. Some people are also concerned about safety of these technologies, but I mean, it is something that goes when you work with gases, also with methane, it is the same. It just means that we have to develop also some tools to monitor leakages of these gas in the future, not only technologies to use and produce hydrogen. And since the most common way to produce hydrogen is by water splitting, there are some concerns about the availability of water in the future and also the accessibility to hydrogen for all. But yeah, it depends also on the state of the art of the technologies for producing hydrogen. So these are some of the concerns that we will consider in Hydra and we will try to understand which are the concerns of different stakeholders and try to give them an answer. For example, from a point of view of the scientific community. Of course, scientists are interested in the interaction of hydrogen with the other atmospheric gases and on the possible climate impacts of hydrogen. So in Hydra, we will have some model simulations, starting from scenarios of the future diffusion of hydrogen technology in the market. And from this we will derive scenarios of atmospheric composition in the future and also radiative forcing, which means climate impacts of course. From the point of view of technical and industry industry. Of course, they want to know if there are some policies on incentives regarding hydrogen and how will the hydrogen economy develop in the future. And to answer this, we will analyze the policies at European national also global level and do a market analysis to understand the feasibility of the diffusion of hydrogen technologies in the near to long term in the mid to long term. And also, of course, policymakers are wondering how they can approach this. So how they can give indications and how their policies could impact on the development of the hydrogen economy. So starting from our simulations, we will give some guidelines to mitigate possible impacts that we can come across. And give to the policymakers some guidelines and policy briefs so that the development of the hydrogen economy can actually be sustainable. And last but not least, of course, it is and so are also hearing about hydrogen more and more. So they are interested in knowing if the technologies are safe and if there are some benefits in using hydrogen. So, regarding the safety aspect, we will develop a monitoring tool. And we will also test it in lab and in a real case study. And we will disseminate of course and communicate our findings to every stakeholders including citizens so that we, of course, can raise awareness about the sustainable energy vectors of the future. This is in line with the expectations of the European Commission, who asked for projects to assess how hydrogen interacts with the other gases in the atmosphere, how it can impact climate and for better monitoring tools. And so our methodology is to start from this policy and market analysis to derive emission scenarios from which we can understand the scenario of possible concentrations of gases in the future, considering a possible increase in hydrogen emissions. And then run some simulation about integrated impacts also considering land use and water use. At the same time, develop the monitoring system to detect and quantify leakages of hydrogen. And then take all these findings to evaluate the benefits and risks and think about possible mitigation strategies and guidelines to deliver to all the stakeholders. We are a consortium of eight partners. Warrant Hub is working on the coordination of the project together with B Warrant, which is our system company in Belgium. And we have other partners around Europe. And for example, Cardiff in Spain, Cienaro in Italy, and Lancaster in UK, they are the modelists of our group. While the Polytechnico Torino and CERF are more focused on market analysis and also on testing the sensor that we will will be developed by Automa, which is a company based in Italy. And I will answer, of course, your question later on. But if you want to follow us, we have social media and also a website and we keep it them updated so that you can see our latest news and findings on there. And these are our our contacts so that if you want to reach out whenever we are available to answer all your questions. So thank you for your attention. Thank you very much for Zello and Yanni. We will now move to our next speaker, a laser caller will just take us a couple of minutes to change slides. So thank you for your patience. Thank you for your invitation. So I'm working at the Geological Institute at Eviter on the role of geological care in the repurposing process of former coal mines. And my work is part of a bigger project funded by DFG with different disciplines involved like mining survey, hydraulic and geomechanics. So first, why is it important to use underground mines? Because on one hand, there is a progressive end of coal mining activities everywhere in Europe that allow the access of existing vast underground spaces. You can see on the map the coal basins in Europe. So in black, the hard coal, which means underground coal mines and in brown, the lignite mine, which are more open pit mines. So it represents a lot of countries in Europe and also vast areas. And on the other side, there is an increase of renewable energy that need to be stored for the heat and power to cover the supply demand fluctuation. So that creates opportunities to reuse those underground spaces has reservoir for heat or power storage reservoir. So different technology can be possible, such as underground pump storage, hydro power, compressed air energy storage or heat storage, but also we can reuse underground space has a geothermal reservoir for heat production. So we look at the technical feasibility of using hard coal mine for those technology with a focus on underground pump storage, hydro power and heat storage. And for this presentation, I will focus more on the UPSH parts. So how does underground pump storage, hydro power works. So it works like a dams that can produce electricity from by draining water from the upper reservoir to the lower reservoir by pouring a turbine in the machine home. But it can also store energy by pumping up the water from the lower reservoir to the upper reservoir during a period of excess electricity production on the grid. So pump storage, hydro power at the surface is already well known technology, but required area area with altitude change and has a vast surface footprint. So on the other side, underground pump storage hydro power reuse existing spaces in area, which can be flat and and can, yeah, like, you don't need all the type of area. So if there is already a semi underground pumps, which has other powers that exist in Austria, actually that's called Nasville and was built in 2006. But underground space was newly excavated to extend existing power plant. So now let's talk about the mine site. So first the rock. So coal can be deposited in environment where all the type of rock can be also deposited in layers. So here you can see like, for example, a section of the rock mass. So rock like sandstone, silestone or shade, which means that we might have a high variation of the type of rocks and their properties vertically and horizontally. And on the other side, the mine. So coal mines in Europe are often deeper than one kilometer and contain large infrastructure network with usually different levels. So means steps of coal production. So this infrastructure include shaft and roadways that are used to access the mine and bring the coal to the surface. And this infrastructure I remain to stay stable during all the operation of the of the mine prediction. And on the other side, we also have the underground space excavated like excavated panel where the coal is excavated, but this area not remain to stay stable long term. So the stage of reusing mine is that we have a good qualitative and quantitative data sets with the mining operators and combines with original geological survey, for example, it's a very really good understanding of the geology in the targeted area. And here we look at a study example of a coal mine in Germany called Prosphohanian that seized operation in 2018 and was previously subject to a study for already like 100 grand pump storage hydropower reservoir and heat storage. So our work right now is to use this knowledge to really have a global understanding of this mine and further potential reuse for this mine and mines in general. So here I will present you the methodology that we have for our work. So first the first step was really to understand geological challenges that can occur during all the process of conversion of the mine. The initial condition of the mine with the different mine characteristic, but also during the construction phase with a focus on the stability of the underground space. And also during the operation phase with potential cyclical processes that can occur during the filling and emptying of the lower reservoir with water. So in this first step we already published a paper with an overview of those processes, combining the different disciplines that are in our project, as I said, mining survey geology geomechanics and hydraulics. And when we understand those processes and challenges that we can have, we can set criteria, especially for my side geological criteria that are in line with requirements that we have for UPSH in general, and especially with long term stability of the underground space in mines. And also productivity of course of the power plants for having an economical sustainability of the power plants and to be in line with a local regulation for work and environment safety. Because we are in, with a big mining history, we have this use data sets and when we know the criteria we can really identify key data sets for planning and development for further stability study. So first with like compilation and starting as this data to be able, for example, to build a geological model that is really applied for the reuse of our future, the future reuse of our mines and also waiting the importance of the different data set that is available. So now it's what we are doing right now and that all of our work is really aiming at aiding decision makers that are involved in similar projects to really know clearly what they can need and having a base for their future feasibility study for similar projects. So I will conclude with the fact that this, the future of conversion mines like the future reuse of coal mines in general and mines everywhere in Europe is really an interest that is increasing. And like more and more papers are published in that topic. So really understanding the geology is really necessary to ensure the long term success of this different conversion that might be visible in the future. Thank you for your attention. Thank you very much, Lysakola. Now we will hear from Yasa Haddad. Please give us a couple of minutes to change slides. Thank you for your patience. Amazing. Hello everyone. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being here on Monday. So I'm Yasa Haddad. I work at ETH Zurich. I'm a PhD student. And my PhD project is embedded in a larger Swiss project called speed to zero, which aims among many other objectives to produce climate compatible climate resilient transition path. These are the pathways for Switzerland to reach net zero. So within this context, I'm investigating the impacts of climate variability on hydropower. This is very convenient. We already had a talk about hydropower here. And we're going to look into how this impact. So I just give us a second. Yeah, of course. Thank you. We're back. So, yes, we are going to see how this impacts also electricity systems planning in Switzerland. So, Switzerland developed its own goals and laws for its energy transition. We can see this through a map of objectives for the energy system, but we can also see that through laws that either have already been passed. There was a climate law or a bill on the security of electricity supply in the near future in June 2024. And these constitute all important milestones. When we were looking at the bill on the security of electricity supply, we saw a quite an interesting point that was brought forward by the government, which was to limit the net winter import. So during winter, you're not importing as much from the other countries and you want to focus more on the domestic production. And my point of concern is really to make energy policies and energy modeling more climate compatible. So we thought, okay, let's take these, this policy and try to understand how climate might affect this and might affect more largely the electricity systems planning of Switzerland. So for this, we explored two scenarios. First of all, the one where we limit the net winter imports to five to an hour in accordance with the energy law that was proposed in Switzerland, and then one where we actually remove this barrier. We just set it in the model that we're using to a very high number so that we can actually make it use more and more winter imports. In order to assess the climate effects on them, we're going to take the lens of hydropower, which is at the core of Swiss energy policy and hydropower constitutes 62% of Swiss domestic electricity production. And in this framework, we're also going to look at more specifically run of river hydropower. This constitutes half of the hydropower production in Switzerland, and therefore a third of Swiss domestic production. So this is quite a substantial number. And why run of river particularly it's because run of river hydropower is those hydropower plants that are built along the river network. And these do not have a storage capacity. So basically they are directly impacted by hydroclimatic conditions. And therefore these are a great gateway into assessing climate impacts on hydropower. So we developed a methodology in order to assess those impacts going from climate data and some technical specifications of hydropower to hydropower generation to electricity systems planning all through different models. And in the first part, we look at the climate impacts on run of river hydropower, and we can see that year to year hydroclimatic variability induces this nice ups and downs in the run of river hydropower generation in Switzerland. So there is a clear impact, a clear variability that we can see. And we can also see that there is a slide down or trend. This is in accordance with the other studies that have been done on stream flow in Switzerland. Now we are going to take each of those hydropower years and we're going to give it to the model that we're using to estimate electricity systems planning. And with that, we see that monthly electricity prices reveal enormous differences between the different policy scenarios that we're considering. From now on, we're going to consider in orange the limited import scenario and in green the non-limited one. The little shaded lines, the whiskers are the different simulations that we've done with the different hydropower years that we're using. And one thing that we can see right away is that there is a clear difference in the winter electricity prices. These show that there are differences in the way the model and the policies behave during winter. And one other thing is that we can see also that the gap between the two policy scenarios are greater than the climate effect on them. The climate effect can be seen through those different, if I can try to point out. So you can see that the climate effect is those slight whiskers here and the policy effect is this big gap. So we can see that the climate effect is smaller than the policy effect. However, we can see also that the different policy scenarios have different ways to adjust to climate. And one thing that we can notice is that the limited import scenario exacerbates the climate effect with bigger spread between the different simulations. And the non-limited one actually dampens it. We're much more concentrated. So we ask ourselves, why? And this comes first from the total size of the electricity system. And what we're going to see now is how the size of the electricity systems changes with the availability of water. So how much runoff river hydropower generation is given to the model. And first thing that we can see is if the project buyers, yeah, the animations are automatic. So one thing that we can see is that there is a clear difference already between the two policy scenarios with the limited import one being higher and also that the slope. So how much it varies between low and high water availability also changes between the scenarios. Now this difference in size comes from further investments in renewables. The first renewable energy that we thought about at this point was photovoltaics. Photovoltaics in Switzerland are the pretty popular option to decarbonize and to switch to renewable energies. However, we see that this is not really affected by the water availability. So the next thing that we thought about was, okay, so what's the next renewable energy that's cost efficient. In this case, for winter electricity, it's wind power and wind power is actually quite problematic in Switzerland. Because it's not still not socially and politically accepted across all different parties. So we can see that here when power is the reason why there is such a big difference between the two different electricity system sizes. So here we see that the limited import scenario relies on wind power. Problem number one. Now, obviously, the non limited import scenario relies on imports and exports as levers. And so we can deduce that in a context where we limit the import scenario, we need to compensate the lack of water with a similar type of energy. And in this case, it was wind power, which was the most cost efficient. And in the case of non limited import scenario, we're compensating this with imports. So finally, the take home messages are that there is an impact of hydroclimatic conditions on runoff river hydropower. There's also a notable drying trend that we can see over the period that we're looking at. And also that I had to encounter with my colleagues is that there's a real need for more open data on energy systems for better transparency and better research. This has been an obstacle along all along the way and we hope that in the future this will be much more apparent. And finally, in terms of the variability of hydropower generation, this can be compensated in different ways, different strategies with a technology that has the similar generation profile or with flexibility through imports. Finally, I wanted to emphasize that the main message to take away from this is that careful energy policies, the careful choice of energy policies, considering climate impacts can lead to a more resilient climate resilient energy system because some might amplify climate effects and some might dampen them. And this is why we need to take that into account for the future. Thank you very much. Thank you. Yes, we will now move to our virtual presenter. Dirk Jan van der Ven, please give us a couple of minutes as we switch presentations. Yes. Hello everyone. My name is Dirk Jan van der Ven. I work on passenger transport decommunization on the different equity considerations. I'm myself a postdoc researcher at the BASC Center for Climate Change in Spain. And this is the work done in the EU project called Diamond. And I will be in an attempt to go in person as well, but from when the morning over so this this pressure once came early for me. Next slide please. So just to get into context of this topic so I'm looking at decommunizing the demand for a mission from passenger transport globally. And this is comforting with many hurdles on the one hand like cheap transport system has been on the basis of modern infrastructure and planning and lifestyle. So it's very the current way of life and infrastructure is really based on having a certain way of transport and although there are of course always ways to do some things without transport, there will always be a big demand for transport, at least in the coming decades. It's hard to think we can drastically reduce the need for transport. And also, there's a lot of luxuries that we can call luxuries like private transport and actually holiday trips that are liquefied to rise and that are idealized, which also means that there's a high income elasticity for transport and for non economists between us that means that like for every additional percentage or your green income. I relatively high share of that percentage you share or you spend on transport and certainly if you compare to other energy, energy, spending like heating or electricity. The next two address transport emissions are often criticized as being regressive as they affect the working class, much or they benefit the rich, such as taxes on gasoline. And the yellow vest movement in France specifically on debt and they, they will manage to cancel that plan. We also have subsidies for electric cars that are often deemed as regressive as they get into the progress of those people who can afford a new electric car in the first place. So there are some policy side is not straightforward to address these emissions and from equity reasons. Next slide please. We're at the current demand for for transport services. We see indeed a very high in quality. This is another paper with a graph on another paper. And where we see on the on the on the x axis on the left side is the population from the less wealthy to the most wealthy. And on the y axis we have energy use so we see on the red line is the total energy footprint so of course always more wealthy consumers, always have more higher energy footprint in general but we see that this is even stronger for land transport but much stronger for transport which are the blue dots. We see that the wealthy top 5% of in the world is responsible for 55 60% of global energy and CO2 from aviation. And we saw the high between and reading country inequality in terms of transport service access to transport services. Slide please. But on the other hand we also have technological progress just quite strong in the in passing transport despite having used for support for like 100 years without much change in the last years there's been a important search in the battery electric vehicles at least for for private transport that has driven in in the wealthy countries and specifically also in China until 2323 we have we see this incredible increase that we see in this graph from Bloomberg on the right hand. And it also has search it also has led to a technological learning which made the cost of batteries and battery electric vehicles to come down. And significantly at the same time as we see in the graph below. And another time mark on this which which is like a base for the for the scenario that I'm running I will explain in a bit is that it's talking to this traditions has often been driven by initial demand search of wealthy consumers. And this was also our core ID and the strategy of Tesla was our blog from Elon Musk like a long time ago that he clearly explained that the idea of increasing the scale of electric vehicles. He first focused on on the wealthy consumers with the Tesla Roadster. Then they could increase the volume of electric vehicle production and that's why that way, going to more cheaper variants of electric car so this. And also has happened in the past for other services and and products related to energy use. So, this is a positive thing in the scenario design for what I will be presenting now. Next slide please. In this study we use an integrated assessment model GCAM is a name with updated with the atrogynous income groups income details for passenger transport demand. So for all kinds of transport services. And we will be simulating 1.5 degree compatible features so passenger demand is compatible with one one deep decarbonization basically so close to their mission in 2050. Globally. And we are using to equity considerations to different scenarios the process like the pay to pollute principle which is often seen as the economy efficient solution which is creating one global market for. C2 from passenger transport and let have consumers to trade permits and on order to allocate who is who's emitting the C2 and who isn't. And the second one is equal admission principle where like, we have a separate markets for each region. So that's like the most close we can model and to equal emissions conversion to us the same value in 2050 so we have for example the top 10% in the US care between them. Again, amid the same amount of emissions weighted of course by population, then the less wealthy 10% in India, which mean that in the last world tips and range India, the might be a price of zero for computing because they will not get to this minimum in the second place, but in the top in the top 10% wealthy consumers in the US, you have a very high price in order to because everybody wants that that those permits that to pollute. And we also stimulate the potential impacts of the technology or learning from both scenario. So we look at the results so we have here the on others figures we have from the left to the right like global population from less wealthy to more wealthy in the different details and different countries. And although and on the right actions we have different values so on the left we see the the current price burden so if you have a global private paper to pollute policy, we see one current price that is the same for everyone. We have equal emissions and the current price is defined by the demand in every group in them. So we see that this price is actually in equal emissions one zero for the poor households and it gets to us very high values for the most wealthy households. But and if we address. If you look at the amount of service for for consumer so the orange lines I always pay to pollute so equal current price per household we see that there's more or less an equal impact on overall transport services, and clearly an equal impact on like luxury transport services like international aviation where the poor households as a much bigger see a much bigger impact of amount of service because they cannot basically afford the high price to pay for theater missions and those and well the wealthy are also affected but less technically less. But if we compare that with a with a policy with where equal emissions for each group we see that in both cases like the less wealthy households are much less affected are still affected but much less and more wealthy households relatively more but it's also based on reference where they already have a lot more so I mean it's not that they will the I will have less transport will just have a larger reduction. Next slide please. If we look into technology. Different technologies we see a global technology mix for total passenger transport also for aviation. We see that, of course, going to us our reference to us a policy with compatible with 1.5 degree, we see our increase in amount of renewable technology certainly in electric and hydrogen technologies. More clearly in aviation even an aviation where it's of course very innovative and it's not happening as of yet. That may be happening in the future. And this is this effect is much exactly much stronger in the case of the equal emissions because the most wealthy consumers are more pressed and they are the most one of that are most needy on on the passenger transport and they are more pressed to use to use more more innovating technologies and this is a more even the case for aviation and for what's most because they the most as I say most of the aviation isn't this top 5% of for humans. So, they will spend on new technologies in order to avoid the high carbon price. And if we assume a learning rate, a learning rate of 8%, which means that for every doubling of us, we have 8% drop in the price. This is, we see that 8% is a quite average, quite a conservative value in literature. In the, on the right hand side, in the scenarios with with equal emissions so at higher current prices for the most wealthy, we have the most learning because there's more demand for innovative for innovative technologies and price of the capital cost of like duty vehicles and airplanes comes down significantly. The next slide please. If we then see that the current price taking into account is learning, then we see of course that the current price comes down before everyone for both scenarios, because there's less cost so it is less costly to remove renewable so there's a lower need for a current price burden. And if you look at the transfer services on the right side. It's interesting to see for example that in the case of equal emissions that the lowest, the most less wealth population is actually affected positively because they have zero current price but it's cheap technologies so they are enjoying more in terms of aviation they still enjoy less but basically has no impact because there's basically no aviation and those first and those less wealthy consumers but we see an important reduction of the impact to our also for medium and richer households in terms of because of technological learning, because they have a very low current price burden and they can. So, there's basically more transport with the same emissions in these scenarios, and this effect is stronger in the case of equal emissions because there's more learning in general. We're running short of time. Could you provide us with a summary. Thank you. So, passenger transport, as I say, is highly unequal. There's a high income as history because of luxury demand in innovative markets with high cost for emerging technologies and economically efficient external pricing pay to pollute affects the service equality, even further, certainly in luxury demands like aviation, but with a different tech system this can be this can be reduced this equality and inequality can actually reduce and the technology is switching by the wealthy potentially improved learning for local technologies improving access for all households that these are the key takeaways from this. Thank you. Thank you very much. So now we would like to take some time for questions for everybody. So I would like to open the room to both on site attendees and our virtual attendees. If you would like to ask a question of one of our panelists, if you're on site if you could just raise your hand and I will bring the microphone to you. If you are joining us virtually, you can either raise your hand in the zoom chat and I will call on you and you can unmic yourself, or you can type the question into the chat. So does anybody have any questions that they would like to start us off with. Thank you everyone for your for your talks. Yeah, so I just it is a broad question but obviously these are really urgent issues how quickly can we make these changes to our society for instance hydrogen infrastructure and that sort of thing. Sorry, it's a bit of a difficult question. Thank you. So we have two objectives, of course, with the Green Deal. So we have to make changes by the 2050. But how we make them it's up for discussion. Maybe to emphasize the point of how to make them because obviously we have a target in 2050, but the pathway to get to this target is still up there. Look, I talked about the different policies that are brought forward and how climate can affect them. And so it's very important that we take into account climate, not only climate but climate especially when designing those pathways. Yeah, I would like to add something else about the fact that we discussed different technologies and different way to either reduce consumption or like better way to produce energy or heat. So all of this project are working in lines with all these different technologies. And of course, like now everything is in a lot of research states. But in of course, like time to have this research state to the industrial scale, it takes a few few years. But like there is a lot of ideas that exists. And the most important is really to see like how much we can reuse from like especially from heat, because in a lot of especially European country during winter time, the biggest problem is the heats. So like how for from each like we have also those fatal energy. So like from like heat from like the sun heat from like power plant that already exists. We use all those heats and always have a bit this mentality of grabbing everywhere energy that already exists and store that and reusing power way. Durkian, would you like to also comment? You're muted at the moment. Yes, indeed. As I mentioned, like the timing is kind of stated by governments right at the point we have many countries until 2050 to get to get emissions down to around zero. I think that the, indeed to fill in the path policy designers policy design is very important so we cannot just assume that because we have this target that the marks will just respond and we will get there. There has to be a lot of wise thoughts on how to design policies to us to getting there. Lovely. Do we have any additional questions? Oh, yes. I have a quick question about hydrogen because it's an interesting take on it as it's been proven to be very efficient, but the infrastructure is lacking. And it seems like the biggest boom of this hydrogen was maybe 20 years ago where it was sort of on par with, for instance, development of electric vehicles. But since then, there haven't been as much coverage of it, mainly, for instance, if I compare it to electric vehicles. And so I wonder how to bring the public back into the the stoke and into the excitement of hydrogen so then there could be more of a public support of such initiative. Yeah, I think that we are actually investing or maybe the European Commission is investing in this year, for example, in the development of hydrogen ballets. And we have different projects that are dealing with hydrogen and all of us are also raising awareness to towards the site isn't for the importance of finding different ways to reach the carbonization goal. And of course, we have still some open questions about the use of hydrogen, but I believe that our project with answer, some of them, and also solve some potential concerns that also people can have. And regarding transportation, for example, that you were inquiring about, in hydrogen volley that there are some applications related to mobility. And this actually gives people instruments to invest in infrastructures to. So I believe that once we will have the results of different projects already that also people will be more invested in this. Thank you. Any last questions. Okay, just checking online. Okay. So thank you very much to all of our speakers for joining us today both on site and online. This is the first of our press conferences at the General Assembly this year. We have a total of seven press conferences. The next press conference will be this afternoon at 1600 hours. And is titled food security water woes and tired lesses. So if you please join us then either online or on site here in Vienna. If you wish to contact any of our speakers for further conversation. Contact information is available through the EGU press packs. If you require any additional help or support, please visit the media.egu.eu website where we can provide you with additional information. I have to say to finish is thank you very much to our panelists. And if you could join me in thanking them for their presentations today. Thank you everyone.