 Welcome, welcome to Global Connections. I'm your host, Carlos Juarez, and joining me today, I've got two young leaders that are going to share a little bit about insight about their experience studying abroad at the moment. I have with me on my immediate left, Brooke Barber. Brooke is coming to us from, well, she's from Falls Church, Virginia, a student at George Mason University, and together with Haley Sieger. Haley is from Northern California, Walnut Creek, and she's a student at Denver University in Scotland. But today, both of them are joining me here in San Andres Cholula Puebla in Mexico, where they are both students studying at the University of the Americas here in Puebla. Welcome to the show, and thank you for joining me here, Brooke and Haley. Well, we'll want to take an opportunity, because of both of you, I want to first thank you for just being bold enough to leave your comfort zone, to get out of what might typically be just staying in either your home country or your home institution. And you've taken the big adventure to head off and study abroad and little abroad. And so what we want to do is kind of reflect on that a little bit, some of the challenges, some of the issues. And I always like to say, when you have these opportunities to study or live or work abroad, it changes you. You're never the same person. But before we jump into some of that, let me just ask each of you to give us a few words about yourself. I mean, starting with you, Brooke, you've come to us from Virginia, and both of you are now here in your second semester. You arrived last fall, so you've had a full semester. Now you're in number two, getting close to about halfway. Tell us a little bit about yourself and maybe what motivated you to take the study abroad. Well, I'm from really close to Washington, D.C., so politics are really prevalent and relevant in that area. So of course, the study government and international relations there. So studying abroad is kind of an important part of that. Sure, yeah, a good fit. And I feel like I've had kind of a different experience because I feel like a lot of international students, they choose where they're going to study abroad based on wanting to experience something new. But beforehand, I've actually been here to Pueblo and I really liked it. And so I just wanted to come and actually experience it from year to time. Excellent. And so you had a short visit before, just was it by chance or because you had some connection or how did you end up visiting? I've been here a couple of times because my boyfriend of two and a half years, his grandparents are from here. Oh, okay. So there was a link of connection. Yeah. And then suddenly it opened up that, hey, well, there's a place I could actually go for a longer stay and actually continue my studies. So in some ways you've came back and that's different. Sometimes when you go study abroad, you might go to a place you've never been to, it's a whole new experience and you saw it at a brochure or somebody described it. You came back having seen it, but obviously a different experience to come as a tourist as it is. And we'll talk about that, what it's been like for you to assimilate it just via part of the community here because that's really what you are. And Haley, tell us a little bit about yourself. You're a Cali girl from Northern California, but you're also, you've got this other peculiarity. You actually study in Scotland in the United Kingdom. So tell us a little bit about your background and how did you end up now in Mexico? Not quite California, but California was once Mexico, so you're closer to home than being in Scotland. Yeah. I originally chose Scotland because I wanted to get international perspective since I studied international relations and I still wanted to go on a year abroad, even though some people thought that was kind of weird since I'm already abroad. And I chose Mexico because being from California, I've kind of been exposed to parts of the Mexican culture and I wanted to know more about it. And I've been studying Spanish since middle school. And so I thought I'd continue learning it and experiencing it. And especially like, yeah, being from California in the US, getting a different perspective of Mexico, like the real perspective of Mexico. Yeah, and of course you say that because even in the outskirts of DC, all the major urban centers of the US, they have a large population of Mexicans, but the reality is they Mexican immigrants are everywhere. They're in the Carolinas, the Dakotas, the Midwest, meat packing plants of Kansas. Mexicans are everywhere. Of course, California Mexicans all know, used to be part of Mexico. Americans sometimes don't realize it was a large land transfer in the mid 19th century. But that aside, also you grew up exposed to it, but also learning some Spanish, but now a big difference to be here and have to use it on your daily life. And so I'd like to maybe have you both share just some of the impressions, like when you first came, you had an idea you had been here and you've been to Mexico much yourself, not at all, haven't you? And so for you, you had some images, some ideas, and then suddenly you came to the reality and maybe first tell us yourself. I mean, once you had been here before, but how you came in a different capacity, what were some of the impressions or I don't know, challenges when you first arrived? I think it's just different coming on like vacation versus coming to live because even though you're exposed to the culture when you come on vacation, it's more when you have to live here alone, you have to do things for yourself, you have responsibilities and you have to really put yourself out there even if you're uncomfortable. Whereas for example, when I would come on vacation, I have like a family that would like do things for me and explain things to me. So you have to solve a lot of basic things yourself and ask questions or just figure it out. And that's different from vacation, you're in a different mentality, right? Here you're actually having to live and then shop and decide basic needs that are quite different. Tell us yourself some of your experience Haley about maybe impressions or stereotypes or images you had of Mexico as maybe you shared with your family or friends, hey, I'm gonna go study in Mexico and what you expected, what they expected and then what you actually found, what was it like? I was, one thing I was really nervous about was just kind of the perception of being an American in Mexico. Was there any kind of like a hard time because I've gotten kind of a hard time about it sometimes of being in Scotland and so I expected to be a lot worse when I came here but it was the complete opposite. Everybody was excited when I say I'm from the US especially from California because they have family there, they've been there. Before I left my coworkers, some Mexican coworkers that were telling me about it and really excited for me to come. So they just got me more excited. It was like both ends of the spectrum, I'm nervous and excited and it's been better than I expected. Yeah, and I think often, because those of us, if you look at the headlines or see things happening in different parts of the world sometimes the news only covers, I don't know, the sensational news, the drama and there's no question Mexico is a country that has a lot of challenges there you have to be careful even here as a visiting international student where you're going, who you're with, use good judgment. The same as if you were any big major city of course, but especially given some of the insecurity issues, but that aside really what I wanna get at here is that often I think people are surprised at Mexico as a place where most people have normal lives if we wanna call that or they have basically a lot of, well even exciting and dynamic and rich culture and things that it's not a dull or boring experience. There's always things happening and particularly the rich diversity of the culture here and even the rich ones, if you're here in a provincial city in Mexico different from the big mega, you know, Mexico city, which is nearby. Maybe tell me a little about some of the challenges when you first arrived, things that were, you know, difficult to figure out so that you wish, you know, in retrospect you knew or you had some better idea and then maybe similarly, if there are things that you expected to be tough but turned out to be, I don't know, a lot easier than expected, anything come to mind? One thing that's definitely not an issue but it's just funny is that in America, everyone kind of runs on the schedule and it's actually in like cities and like in the metro area and stuff, it's very like structured. And here when I would be on vacation and things like, that doesn't really matter. You appreciate that there's not really like. Yeah, it's a situation but. But when you come here and you have like disabilities and you have homework and you have things to do, you really learn to appreciate like the structures that we have there. For example, like a week ago, I didn't have Wi-Fi in my apartment and I told the maintenance guy, like when it happened, you know, I need Wi-Fi and he's like, okay, like right now I'll bring it or like help me fix it. And like a week and a half later, he's like, okay, like right now I'm coming up and then it's like, what are you talking about? I already fixed it and so. So the concepts of time or even the sort of structure of managing that time are very more elastic and flexible here. And it works great in some level maybe, but also it's the kind of thing and when we learn about cross-cultural relations how to deal with these differences, you wanna sort of anticipate that and understand it. And then, you know, we often hear the, you know, phrase used in Mexico, yammerito or just a little minute and that minute can be three days or hours. And you know, you just wanna, at some point understand what that really means. And if it is important, you've got to follow through, you got to be on them more. Otherwise, you have to relax your own expectations, right? Anything you could share, Haley? Again, the things that surprised you, challenges, issues? Yeah, definitely the time thing has been hard, especially as somebody who likes to have everything planned out really well and scheduled. Like after this, I'm going to the grocery store and like I'm meeting my friend at the bus stop at four, but that definitely does not mean we're leaving. It may not be four or zero, yes. And the bus definitely does not come every 20 minutes. Like it's supposed to. Oh, the schedule says that, but maybe not, yes. But no. I guess the only other thing that's been a consistent challenge or something that I don't like is paying for water, which seems kind of trivial, but, and it really is, but. Yeah, and it is one of those sort of first world problems. You assume water everywhere you turn on, you could drink and here you want to be careful. Especially someone who might be coming from outside here, maybe your stomach is not quite used to the challenges here. And that's true of traveling to many places. You always want to be on the safe side, but yeah, having to pay them for everything, can every time you drink some water. And as you probably well know, Mexico has perhaps one of the, be the highest per capita consumption of soft drinks, of sodas. And maybe that is reflected in that there's not as much abundant water available everywhere. So a soda can be a quicker or a beer, in many cases, an easier option. Now, one of the things, and as we continue our dialogue, I mean, you've come at a time now, here we are in 2019, we've had now two over two years of the new administration, President Donald Trump. Of course, as he campaigned for office, in fact, he didn't know he was gonna be president, but at the time he had a rather, a lot of negative things to say about Mexico and the relations have been soured quite a bit. But more to the point, here you are, students from the United States studying here, and like it or not, you are cultural ambassadors. You represent that country. And when you meet people, they may have questions and puzzles, and you have to try to, part of your role as a cultural ambassador is helping them understand more about your home country, including ciliarities of politics and the puzzles of that. Have you had opportunities? I don't know, questions, awkward moments, or any times where you had to try to explain what's going on back home. And both of you are students of politics and government and international relations, so you're in a better capacity than maybe a nursing student or someone else. Nevertheless, talk a little bit about, I mean, what it means to be an American in Mexico here in 2019 or in the last year, the time you've been here. I think it's been interesting every time, some find, well not every time, but often when people find out that you're American, they always wanna ask you what you think of Trump. And I always just say like, I don't think that I would be interested in necessarily in standing abroad here for a whole year if I was that big of a fan of Donald Trump and the things that he says about Mexico. So that's been interesting, but more than that, I think, when people find out that you're American, even more than politics, they're always interested in the language and they always wanna speak to you in English and try to make that cultural connection. So that's really interesting. And I mean here, especially at the university, I mean by and large, this is a very international oriented institution and the students, particularly those like you studying internationalization, they have a good working knowledge of English. So for them, it's an opportunity to kind of perfect a little bit, practice it, improve it. And so there's a certain excitement about that. Moreover, and your peers here, the students, they have a lot of experience traveling, many of them have been US or to Europe, other places. And so they're pretty familiar with these issues, but I'm sure one of the differences about studying where not only are you in the classroom with your peers, but you're actually living here, dealing with the local community and everything that entails. As we continue, I wanna take a short break in a moment here. And as we come back, just talk a little bit about again, what are some of the things that you had to do it again or otherwise provide some tips and advice to others who are about to embark on a new journey, traveling, living, studying, working abroad. What are the kinds of things that you would put on your little checklist that many of them you may have done already to organize your structure. But there are certain, there's always things that you kinda, oh, if I had only known or if I had done this, but we'll come back after a short break to talk a little bit more about this experience. I'm delighted that you're sharing these. And I, again, I wanna thank you both for this bold decision to get out of your comfort zone, get into see the world. And as a final reflection, we'll talk a little bit about how this experience has changed you as an individual because these are life-changing experiences. We'll never quite go back to the same. It'll open up new connections, but even a new way of thinking. So as we come back, we're gonna take a short break right now. We're here on Global Connections. I'm your host, Carlos Juarez. I'm joined today by two young leaders, American students that are studying here in Mexico, Brooke Barber from George Mason University in Virginia, and Haley Zieger, who's from California, but she's studying abroad in Scotland and she's studying abroad from there in Mexico. So that complicates things even more. But join us for more on the story as we come right back in a short break. Thank you. Hey, Loja, my name is Andrew Lanning. I'm the host of Security Matters Hawaii. Every Wednesday here on Think Tech Hawaii, live from the studios, I'll bring you guests, I'll bring you information about the things in security that matter to keeping you safe, your coworkers safe, your family safe, to keep our community safe. We wanna teach you about those things in our industry that may be a little outside of your experience. So please join me because Security Matters. Aloha. Hi, I'm Rusty Komori, host of Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. My show is based on my book, also titled Beyond the Lines, and it's about creating a superior culture of excellence, leadership, and finding greatness. I interview guests who are successful in business, sports, and life, which is sure to inspire you in finding your greatness. Join me every Monday as we go Beyond the Lines at 11 a.m. Aloha. Aloha, and welcome back. I'm your host here, Carlos Guadiz, back on Global Connections, and joined today by Amy Barber from Virginia and Brooke Barber... Haley Zegger, I'm sorry, from California, and Brooke Barber from Virginia, but both of them are students studying abroad in Mexico at the moment. And of course, these are experiences that are so important, especially to help us understand how to function in the world today, how to develop important cross-cultural relations, even just adaptability skills, because we live in this age of a lot of interconnections, global links, and that's what we're here talking about. But also, the idea that you and preparing to come here, you obviously had some images and ideas, some checklist of things that you decided, Brooke, you had already come, so you had maybe a slight advantage, or at least having been to Mexico. In your case, Haley, you were far off in Europe and you're on your way to Mexico, so you've got a little research and reading, what do I do? And I wonder, maybe if you can share, I mean, things that you are glad that you brought with you, whatever it might have been, little goodies or things, or were there any things that you wish you had prepared a little better, or maybe things that you had wish you had brought with you, but didn't? Anything come to mind? Or everything worked out? You came and planned it and everything's been... So far, everything's been good. And again, we're talking about, we're not in like Madagascar or someplace where you don't have access to Mexico, it's a pretty well-integrated place and you can find most of your needs in general. But I guess I'm just thinking more about that. The past, though, many of us like to travel and go and see the world. I'm certainly a global traveler myself. I find the more I travel, less I need and the lighter I like to travel because we often have this image of, you've got to have this, you've got to have the hair blow dry, you need this, and in the end, no. It's sometimes better to go simple and just keep it simpler. Any reflections on that or? I live alone in an apartment, so I had to come here, obviously I didn't pack up all my blankets. Yeah, but you had to set it all up. I had to like buy all those things so now I'm coming back home soon. It's kind of an issue of something that I'm going to do with all those things. Exactly. I mean, you have to learn how to solve it. Keep it simple, right? And otherwise, before, for the day before, you've got to start maybe reaching out to some friends and moving it off. That's the life of a college student, in general, you accumulate stuff and we others who are arriving that need stuff. So you'll find a way. Now, maybe another angle would be this. These experiences are so crucial for us to develop our own personal growth, professional growth. You open up links and you're developing friendships that are going to be lifelong. We will know five, 10 years from now. But beyond that, I mean, I wonder if you might talk a little bit about how it's changed you, if it has. I mean, or if you're the same person, maybe just let us know that. But you think you've changed as a person, having come here and your way of thinking, your values, what are maybe, I don't know, advice that you would give others who are considering studying abroad. Should they do it, why? Or what are the kind of skills that you need to make it work? I say, yes, absolutely. Study abroad if you have the chance. I think that it's given me a more open mind in terms of being more flexible and just letting things happen as they happen and being open to different, trying different things. And I knew I would be trying different things, but it's challenged me just in a really positive way. It feels good to, you know, it's been hard. And sometimes, and getting through that makes me like feel really good and it feels, reminds me that like I can keep doing things. Yeah. And it's again, that it's sort of getting out, I said that getting out of your comfort zone because wherever we are, we develop a certain routine, a certain way of doing things. You get comfortable with that. You come to a new country, a new environment and things are never quite the same, whether it's putting a stamp on a postcard and trying to mail it or how to get the wifi service going. Things just aren't done the same way as you might know. And there's often not an instruction manual that tells you where to go, who to ask. So you have to be resourceful. And you described, I guess, the idea of open-mindedness. And that's really an important skill you develop, because you realize people do things differently. And maybe the same thing, and it's not that your way is better or there's better, but it's just different. And that's something you have to come to accept. Anything you could add, I mean, how it's changed you or what kind of skills you need? Definitely. I mean, it's been interesting learning kind of problems on a different level. But also, I'm a very shy person, naturally. And even when I speak in English, everyone always tells me to speak louder or whatever. So having to speak in Spanish is that much more of a challenge. And so it's just made me a more confident person because I have to be not necessarily because at first I wanted to be, but you have to really put yourself out there. You wanna survive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think we can take this in jest as well. I often note that you need a sense of humor. You need to be able to laugh at yourself because you're gonna make mistakes. You're gonna do things that you may not know, you're stumbling along the way or things that are just different and odd. And if you don't have the ability to laugh, to laugh at yourself, and I don't mean laugh and make fun of others, but just to kind of take it as stride. And that's part of the open-mindedness that you described. And I wonder, maybe pushing this a little farther, what are the kind of skills that are again needed? You mentioned open-mindedness, maybe patience, maybe learning to listen carefully because often this is often maybe a criticism of none of the Americans. There's a sense of optimism or an attitude that we know how to do it and this is the answer. And sometimes you have to have a certain level of humility and just step back, observe, listen, and not always have the answers. Just see that things are being done in their own organic way and go with that flow. Anything that comes to mind for you? Knowing that things are gonna get done and they might not be getting done how you wanna do it or you might not get to do it how you would usually do it, but it's gonna work out and things will happen better than you think that they will. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Something last semester, we were talking about group projects and things. Like if you're in a group of like Mexican students, usually they're really like back and they procrastinate. Of course we procrastinate too, but we did them for a little bit more. Yeah. So, thanks for that. And this is so important because as you think about it, you are young leaders and whatever you want to do with your lives, you're gonna be increasingly working with people from different places, even if you're back in the US. So the United States is a very diverse place. You've got populations and cultures and religions all over. And it's important to learn how to bring together people with different values. You don't always get to choose your groups or your partners or your workmates. And that's I think an important skill. And as a professor, we have to somehow figure out, help you develop those skills, not just memorize things, but even working in a group project because ultimately that's the nature of what you do in the real world. You've got a team, you've got to figure out and the challenge there is how to either motivate or get people to do the right thing. They may not be the main initiators of things, but maybe they've got other skill sets that you can somehow harness. It's the challenge of cross-cultural management or intercultural management of how do you get others to do things? And maybe they're on a different system of values, of time concept or what is urgent for them and things like that. So I think you're developing those skills just in your day-to-day life, just negotiating everything from going shopping, getting a bus ride, figuring out your work assignments. All these are good examples of that. And I think ultimately the challenge that we all have is how do you work, build from that and get rid of some of the bad habits you might have if you have any, but as you are evolving from this experience, it's gonna bring out the best in you, but inevitably too, and there's this thing that we often talk about, the sort of culture shock, which even happens if you're on vacation, but certainly more if you're going to a place to live, the honeymoon after two or three weekends and then suddenly you're faced with some anxiety moment like why am I here or how do I do that? Maybe just as we kind of followed through with this, each of you have any examples of a culture shock moment? Maybe you were lost, maybe you were frustrated, maybe you were at a sudden moment of anxiety that you just wanted to scream or cry and nothing like that. Um, I'd say just sometimes in terms of transportation, that might be one thing that has been... Like a frustration. Yeah, like with taxis and collectivos, things like that, there'll be a set price and it's not always the price that you want, especially if you're white and American. And just but knowing in advance that you kind of have a bit of power in helping to set the price. And then figuring out that maybe that's the first task when you get in, you got to clarify, what is that price here now? And that's a lesson again, I've traveled the world and sometimes if you're in a taxi and you wait until the end, how much are you then? It can be very, very awkward. And then there's a, you know, you're caught off guard. It's their turf, it's, you know, you're a young woman as a foreign national here. So you want to learn to somehow clarify that right from the get-go, right? And how much is that? Even though it says eight there, maybe it's 10 and, you know, just figure that out, right? Any culture shock moments for you? I mean, again, you've had experience having before, but it's very different to come and live here, right? Right, culture shock, I'm not sure. But I think just maybe adjusting to life in general. And like I said before, like I'm very shy. So like, like you said, with the taxis and setting prices and things, you have to be very direct because they see, they can tell that you're not from here. And if you're insecure and you don't know nothing, ah, this is a sucker that I'm gonna be able to take advantage of. And so you need to be more assertive in some ways, like it or not, it's just a skill you have to develop. Toughen up a little bit, very good. And, you know, beyond that, let me, as we kind of wind down our talk, I wanna thank you for the opportunity to reflect on some of these things. You are now, you've been here many months and so well into your second semester, you've had opportunities now to get to no Mexico on the level, not just the school and classmates, but travel a little bit. As you think about that and the takeaway you have, I mean, if you're, you know, sharing insights and impressions, once you go back, back to your family, to your friends, what are some of the things, takeaways that you have from Mexico, things that you would want people to make sure they knew or understood or appreciated? I don't know, you know, how would you describe Mexico, Mexican culture, Mexican society? Because there are a lot of images and impressions we often get. Just a few days ago, we celebrated the Oscars and the number one director was again another Mexican director, five of the last six. And I say that because, you know, there's this image and stereotype if you listen to Donald Trump and it's that Mexico sends us their worst, their rapist, their murders and certainly there are some bad hombres and there's a lot of that, but there's also a steady flow of workers that are an integral part of the US economy. But more than that, Mexico also has, you know, more positive elements, whether it's Hollywood film directors or even just, I don't know, people here who, you know, despite the animosity intentions of US-Mexico relations today, often still have a very positive image or impression of the US. A very high percentage of Mexicans have some family connection. They've got people living there or they've lived themselves there. So just back to this question. I mean, what are some of the things about Mexico you would share with your family and friends back in the US? I would say there's just a widespread perception in America that Mexico is so insecure and it's so dangerous and everything. And of course it is in some places and whatever, but it's, there are people that live here and that are happy here and that enjoy life here. And despite that, just like in America, we have our problems, but it's a place where people live and it's not all what you see in the media. And if you have the chance to go to places that aren't included, it's kind of absurd, whatever, you should get out and like learn about that part of the culture too, because it's not all about this. It's like coming on spring break. I think that's often a real, I think, unfortunate story. Many Americans will only go and visit a hotel resort in some popular place and okay, that's fine. You can have a good vacation, but it's also a bubble. It's not the real Mexico and it's not easy for everyone to go on vacation and be with the local community, of course, but there are opportunities and those who want to adventure and sort of see in general, you would agree probably it's a very warm and friendly culture. The people are interested, they wanna help and share. And yes, you have to be vigilant and careful, but in general, most people's lives here are not lived under this constant fear of violence and robbery. It's just not the reality. Now, bad aside, yes, you always wanna be careful, but you travel New York City, you wanna also be looking if you're in DC in the wrong part of town, you wanna obviously know what's going on. What would you reflect fairly any thoughts on? Again, things that you would share about your insights now into Mexico, Mexican culture society. Yeah, I'd say the biggest two things that I want to tell people back home or anybody who just doesn't know much about Mexico is that one, it is so incredibly diverse in ways that I never, I did not know at all like the different cultures throughout different regions are indigenous versus there's just so many influences and the way that different regions interpret that about that has been so fun to learn and is so exciting. So that's one of the things. And then the other one is just the kindness. Everybody just wants you to be happy. Every time I, every new person that I meet is so excited that I'm here and wants me to enjoy and wants me to see how great this country is and I do, and I do see how wonderful this country is and I love it so. Yeah, there's a strong sense of national pride. Mexicans really do want you to experience there and their cuisine is different from the other town or state and this image of Mexico as being the stereotype. It's a very diverse, a very large place. It's a rich country in many ways. It's also poor. There's a quality injustice, but it's a very old country but it's also new. It's got such a paradox of many different things and the regionalism I think is something that people don't appreciate as much. Again, if you're just visiting a little resort town that's not quite the real Mexico. The same can be said about anything, you know, visiting one place in any place but I'm glad you were able to share again and you've seen these experiences. It's true any place you might go. You have to learn the local culture, the history of the context, how people relate themselves and to you and I thank both of you for sharing these. We've had a good conversation. I'm glad that both of you are doing quite well and you're now fully immersed really the tail end of your long stay here. You have a full academic year now in the middle of your second semester. What I will just end by saying is that you'll never quite be the same person. You've opened up a world of both ideas of feelings. You've built connections here that are gonna be lifelong and you know, Mexico even as you go away you'll have a piece of it in your heart as you might any place you go. And I'm sure you'll come back for visits and to reconnect and experience what you've done here. So I wanna thank both of you, Brooke and Haley, a chance to understand your exciting opportunity, the study abroad experience. For our listeners, I'm grateful that you could join us today to hear these insights. Brooke Barber joining us from Virginia where she's a student at George Mason University, Haley Zieger from California, studying at the moment in Scotland, well not at the moment, she's here in Mexico but doing her studies in Edinburgh, Scotland. But both our students here at the University of the Americas in Cholula Puebla. And I think it's fair to say they are the future generation that are gonna be well-rounded intercultural managers, cultural ambassadors themselves. Thank you both for joining me here on Global Connections and best of luck as you continue your studies here. Thank you so much. Thank you.