 in this super awesome Christmas episode of mine. Merry Christmas everybody. We do a year of review. We look back at 2019 and we talk about all the awesome things that happened for us in 2019. We talked about Adam becoming a father. That was the biggest thing that happened. That was really awesome. Talked about some of our live events and how they impacted us. Talked about the time Justin went up in an F 16 and got his brains scrambled. It was insane. We talked about Adam's trip to organify how I was going around training trainers. And then we talked about our top 10 favorite interviews of the entire year. This is a great reference episode. If you're trying to figure out which interviews you should listen to, listen to this episode because we break down our top 10 most impactful, important podcast interviews that we did in the year 2019. Also, I want to remind everybody this month and it is ending soon because we are towards the end of the month. Maps aesthetic is 50% off. Now Maps aesthetic is a full workout program. It's got workout videos, workout blueprints. It's designed to help you improve your aesthetics, build and sculpt your body. Now here's how you get the 50% off discount before it ends. Go to mapsblack.com and use the code black50. That's B-L-A-C-K-5-0. No space for the discount. That was a really sweet post you did last night, by the way. You got me all emotional. Oh, I didn't. Did I really? I meant it. I responded and then it didn't post and so I was like, ah, whoops. So you never posted it? I did it this morning. What an asshole. I think everybody was kind of in that feeling coming to the end of the year and talking about the things that we have done within the business, outside the business. I think we've all been in this place of gratitude, which makes for, I think, a really cool time to talk about our review of 2019. Our annual review of the episodes that we've done and recap of the business on things that have happened in and outside of the business, but most importantly to go over the, we had 50 guests this year. We cranked them in a bit this year. Well, I think the year before we actually even had more about the quality of guests. Yeah, almost every guest was phenomenal. There were a few there that were like, most of them, the vast majority were exceptional. Yeah, and so this year is going to be a little more challenging. I feel like to narrow it down, narrow down to our top 10 because they were. I mean, everybody really was, as I'm looking at the list right now, I'm like, man, those were a lot of really cool interviews. It's crazy since I've met you guys and the reason why I did that post is I was sitting back and thinking about just the past year and how much growth I've gone through personally and really realizing that since I've met the three of you, I've grown more in the, you know, almost five years I've known you guys than I did in the previous 35 years. I mean, such a fast, rapid rate of personal growth. And it's because I'm with people who I trust, who are honest, who are good. It's really hard to find really, really true, true good people, self aware. And, you know, just to hang out with you guys, it requires me to do to be that way myself. So it's been, it's been awesome. And this year has been a very transformative year, I think, in a lot of different ways. One of the biggest things that happened in 2019 that I thought was amazing was Adam became a father. Yeah, that had to be the biggest is the biggest thing. Man, when I first met you, you were, you would, you know, kind of lean towards the side of not even wanting kids. It was a lot of, a lot of the ways you talked about that were like, I don't, I don't even think I want them. And, and now getting to know you, I knew you were not put on the surface to not be a father for sure. Once I, once I got to after about 30 seconds of getting to know you, this guy was made to be a dad. Yeah. And so I knew that that was something that had to happen. And now look at your dad. Yeah, no, I, you know, I was just listening to an interview that somebody did of me last week, and we talked about Maximus. And one of the questions they asked me about was, you know, you and Katrina were together for eight years before you had a kid, they're like, what took you so long or what was the deal? You know, I said, ah, you know, a lot of people thought it was like a commitment issue thing for me that, that really didn't know me. If you really know me, you kind of know my childhood background and a lot of my motivation, where that came from. And I didn't want to bring a child in this world because of a lot of my own insecurities of, you know, having fear of, you know, I don't, I don't want to stress over money when I, when I have a child or bring a child in this world, if, if my, you know, if my wife wants to stay home and be with our son, I want to be in a place that I can support the family. Okay. If we decide that we want to put them in private school, I want to be able to do that. I want to be able to take him places and travel. And so there was a lot of things that kept me from wanting to have a son right now. And then when I, as I started to get old in any time in the last 30 something years, and as I got older, I started to realize, oh, there might be a possibility that I may not become a father. Who knows. And it was crazy the way it all worked out for Katrina and I, because when we first started trying to have a kid, honestly, there was a part of me that I didn't want to get pregnant yet. I didn't want her to get pregnant yet because we, we weren't quite there in mind pump yet, where I felt comfortable that, okay, we're here to stay. You know, truth be told, as, as confident as we've all been since day one, you know, there was a, I was waiting for a place for this business to be for me to feel like, okay, I feel like I can, we're not going to mind pumps, not going to stop in the next three to five years, no matter what, right? We've built a foundation now where I feel confident in that. So yeah, the way it all unfolded was really amazing. It was awesome to watch. Now, did, did working with and being around three fathers help or impact you in any different way? I don't think so. I think what you guys have provided along those lines is, I mean, it makes me excited to have, you know, three other men that I respect a ton in that area as far as I respect you guys for a lot of reasons, but you're all exceptional fathers for all different reasons too. That's what's really unique. You know, Doug's got an incredible story as far as him being a father, Justin is unique with his two boys and then you with your son and daughter and then going through a divorce and with that. I mean, you guys have all taught me so many things in different ways and have been great examples of how to be a great man and a great father. So, but I don't think that's motivated me more or less to have a child. It's always been the money thing and security and that has always been the big thing for me. And even like Katrina, I knew, you know, after a couple of years of being with her, I knew I was going to be with her for the rest of my life. So, it wasn't even a question of, is she the one? It was really more about where I was at or where we were at currently in our, our, you know, journey on if it was going to work out timing and I, and what I love about her is we both were always that way with it was, you know, if it happens and it happens in the timeframe that she still wants to have a child because for her it was kind of a cutoff like, Hey, I don't want to be having a kid at 40. Like that's too late for me. So, if it doesn't, if it doesn't fall in line with where you're at in your life and then we had, and that was a big pivotal point in our relationship, you know, about two and a half years ago or three years ago now, or her and I had probably one of the hardest times in our relationship when she was getting closer to that kind of cutoff of when she decided I'm not going to have a kid after that. And I was still at a place where I'm like, I'm not quite ready to have a kid yet. And we really struggled with that. And I know there was a lot of outside pressure from family and friends around that time. And I think that added to it. But we did, we finally had, we had this talk and it was an incredibly reassuring moment for me in our relationship when she said, you know, I pictured my life without you and with another man and family and what that would look like. And then I pictured life could be like with you if we never had kids. And I'm quite confident that I don't, I would rather not have a kid and be with you for the rest of my life than to pursue a relationship with anybody else and have a child and a family. And for me, that was all I needed to hear to feel good about us and going forward. And then like I said, it all just kind of happened man, the way it unfolded timing wise. That's awesome. That was one of the highlights for sure of 2019. Some other highlights were some of the live events that we did throughout the year. And for me in particular was the, we did a dinner with some of the guests that attended one of our live events. And we got to meet people up close, hang out with them. That's why we had this dinner. So we only had, I think it was five or six people that were there as part of the dinner that were, because when we had these events, there was 100, 250 people. We only had five people at this dinner. But so I got to meet people and really talk about, talk to them and hear their story. And there was one couple that sat next to me where the guy was really struggling. He had lost a lot of weight and he was really struggling with continuing to move forward. And I gave him some advice. I told him to put a scale in the closet, told him to bump up his calories, build muscle, you know, the typical things we talk about. And I got an email from him a few months later and his body progressed. He doesn't, he feels far more comfortable with what he's doing and he's much, is a better ease. And it was so nice to be able to make that impact in person and to hear from people. That was a big one for me. Did you guys have a favorite live event out of all of them? I mean, one of the things I think we all agree on is that every time we do one, even if it's begrudgingly, because we're so busy with everything else in the business, it's like, oh God, we got to go out and do this. Every time we go, we go, fuck man, these things impact each of us individually so much and remind us of why we are putting. They're very impactful. Yeah. And so we end up loving them always. Did we do Denver this year? Yeah, we did. That was my favorite. Denver wasn't Manhattan Beach. What was the one down in LA, the other location there? But that was close by. It was Manhattan Beach. Wasn't that done? Yeah, Manhattan Beach. Yeah. So that was my other favorite. That's my favorite too. Yeah. I just think that the energy, the crowd, like we just had a lot of fun at that event. We were on that one. I feel like if all, on all the alive events, you know, I have critiques of either myself or us collectively when we come back. And I felt we were the best at that event. Well, and I think too, the format of it was very much more of like, what do you guys want this to be? Because you guys are leading the questions and then we're kind of responding accordingly. And so sometimes the conversations got deep and it was powerful to hear people's story of how they're able to turn things around, how we've been able to like impact them on some way that we didn't even know. And man, that was always humbling. That's always a humbling experience to be a part of somebody's journey to find their way back to health and wellness and just how that impacts their family and then how that, you know, propels them forward in their life somehow. Like, that's what's like the most I get out of those live events is just to hear people's stories of, you know, how they've either found us, how they've either applied what we've taught them, you know, how they all interact with each other, find each other and then create more community from, you know, what we talk about on the show. It's pretty incredible. I like San Francisco a lot, but for selfish reasons. That was the first one that I had a family at. I had a lot of family there too. That was a fun one. A bunch of cousins and, you know, my brother was there and they got to see us in our element and, you know, I felt so proud, right? Because you want to do well in front of people. Of course, you had like your own little laughing meter over there. You know what I'm saying? Laughing crowd over there. Every time Sal's, it was like extra loud laughs out there. They're going to come into every live event for now. I'm going to pay for them to come. All right. So that was, that was a lot of fun. And we had this year, the best guests that we've had ever, in my opinion. Part of it, the size of the show, it allows us to draw, bet, you know, guests that have more power or clout. So, you know, when we were smaller, it might have been difficult to get some of these people on show, but Before we get into that, I also wanted to mention like going up to Travis Air Force Base. And just getting the, the once in a lifetime opportunity to fly with the Air Force Thunder Birds was just the most incredible experience I've ever had. That was this year. I'm so thankful for that. It was crazy. What month was that? Do you remember what month that was? No. It was like early in the year. February of March. Yeah. It was pretty early in the year. What I remember about that is Justin came back the next day and I'm like, how was it? And he goes, it was like every single cell exploded in my body. Because like the inside of me got strong. And I said, bro, I said, will you ever do it again? He goes, no. He goes, I loved it, but I'll never do it again. It was a crazy experience. Yeah. I've had enough time to wear it. Now it just seems like the most amazing thing I ever did, right? You know, even though it was very challenging, but it's just like, I think for me, it was the impact of the ritual, the formalities, like the, just the welcoming environment that they provided. Doug was able to come up with me and got to see a lot of like the, you know, the formalities involved with it. And just, I had so much respect and admiration for people in the service. And it brought that back in me because, you know, you just realize what everybody else is doing out there to, that we're benefiting from. Whatever happened to the video of you? And then they send you a video? Why didn't she show us? I did. You did? Did you share it with us? I posted that on my Instagram too. I got to watch it. Yeah. No, you put music to it and everything. Yeah. I tried to make like a highlight reel of it, you know. Did you put in the part where you threw up? That was way later. So it was like, you know, like the camera, at that point, you would have to go through like us just chit chatting for, you know, I was up there for an hour in like 10 minutes or something. Yeah. You almost made it, right? And then they couldn't, they couldn't land. So they were just circling. Yeah. At that point, my body just had, it was like, no, no more. You know, I can't handle any like little sudden movement. Well, the thing that I thought, there's the look right there. Yeah, look at that, man. You get out of the plane. I don't know how you cut that. That was such the perfect, that embodies like what I felt like. How did they fit your cakes in that? Oh, you should have seen me trying to, because when you put these straps over your legs, you have to squat down and then like, it's really hard to pull them up because it's so tight because they want it like almost, yeah, like almost like you're cutting your leg off tight. Well, you know what, one of the things that I thought was so memorable at that being the outsider looking in and being jealous that I didn't get to go do that was I didn't realize how special that was. Like there's people that spend their life. Oh, the people that service the planes don't even get to give them a minute. I mean, that they spend their life in the Air Force. Yes. And they never get a chance to fly in one of those. And so the honor for you to get to even do that, I mean, most people will go their whole life even being connected to the Air Force and never get to do that. No, you're absolutely right. I actually went the next day because they're still doing this airshow and I just wanted to go back there and watch them, you know, do their thing and real action because I had such a new respect for it to begin with. But then I was talking to like old vets and we were in this like B 52 bomber plane and we're just chatting and then Courtney's like, hey, you know, he just went up in an F 16 and the guy just looks at me like, tell me, tell me all about it. Like he was like fascinated by it. And I'm like, you were like in the wars. This has nothing compared to that. You're right. And this is Air Force, right? Yeah, Air Force. Yeah, man, I like that video. So that's freaking, I think that's awesome. So yeah, that was a powerful thing that I got to experience. I was pretty excited about that. Now, you know, you saying that, so now you're starting to spark some things that, you know, like, I'm trying to think that this will be good to try and think of each of us individually that went off and did something like, you know, I recently went down to meet with Organifi and their team and see their new, their new location. And that was a really neat experience for me going in there. And we hadn't, we hadn't been by Organifi and I think two years, I think it had been. And even then was a big deal. Back two years ago, we went by there and like, you know, saw their operation and their team. And there was quite a few people that listened to the shows were, oh, wow, that's really cool. You know, we thought it was really cool. And it was a cool experience. But this last one, it felt way different. I mean, there was, there was people that worked there that got jobs with Organifi because they listened to the show, they heard the commercials, they've reached out to Organifi, they got the, the entire place were not only just fans, but they were, I mean, when I walked in the door, like everybody kind of surrounded me and wanted to hear, tell stories about Mind Palm. But yeah, it just was a really, really cool, humbling, amazing experience. And because it's been, there was a two year gap between the last time that I went around that team, you could, I could feel the difference. And so it was just confirmation of how much impact that the show has made and how much it's grown over the last couple of years. And so that was a really cool experience for me. Last year, I had the opportunity to do a lot of sales trainings for trainers in the, in the fitness space. And that was really cool because it brought me to my, my fitness roots, you know, working with and training trainers and being able to make a positive impact and, you know, getting in front of people, getting in front of them, teaching them the communication process and showing them that we value the hell out of what they're doing. I feel really good to do that. It was great to get in that space again, get in the gyms and see these people. And it gave me that itch, you know what I mean? That itch to get into the gyms and, and, you know, train people again or whatever. It was really fun. What about, I mean, can you talk about being reached out to about writing a book? I mean, is that, that's happening? We've talked about that. That's something that's happening. That's a big deal. Yeah. I don't know if we can necessarily talk too much in detail, but yeah, getting, getting, having a publisher reach out and to, to get into the process of talking about writing a book to represent this amazing company. That could, that could be a huge opportunity for exposure and just a new chapter, you know, no pun intended, right? It's a totally new, different thing. It's something that we haven't done as part of Mind Pump. We've used other forms of media. We'll see what happens. And that's always been something in the back of my mind, like something that I've wanted to do. So that's going to be pretty exciting. Haven't started it yet though. So I'm sure when I do my year review next year, I'll be able to talk about what an experience that was all about. Of course. But anyway, the guests were phenomenal. That's what I was. When I look at the year of guests and we did almost 50. Yeah, we did almost 50. I want to nail down to the top 10. And we have to agree first on the criteria, like what, and some of the things I'm thinking of, and you guys can add or take away from it, you know, obviously, to me, I won that was enjoyable, entertaining, like it's got to be entertaining for me to list it in the top. Can you do, could we say most impactful to us that could be up in the entertaining part? Well, yeah, that's, well, I think impact would be another category in itself, right? I think entertainment is one thing. And then impactful. Or like the best response our audience had. That's another one. That should be in there. Impactful for the audience. And then I also think that we should try and recall and remember the ones that we felt we did the best as far as our skills. Yeah, our skills said the way the conversation went. If we got things out of that guest that maybe somebody else didn't, like I think that should maybe like best new information presented as well, because I could think of a few examples of that as well. Yeah, well, they really again impacted us, where I felt like my mind was blown. And what's funny is that the ones that I'm thinking all tend to fall in this category, like the ones that were most impactful for me also tended to be the most fun and also tended to have a great audience response. And as a result, it was also one of our better. So throw a name out there, throw one right out there. For me and easy. Number one is Bishop Baron. Number one for me and that maybe part of that. Now there's a few different reasons why number one when this was a second time we interviewed Bishop Baron. And I remember the first time we did it, there was a bit of there was a discussion as to whether or not we should even have a Catholic Bishop on our show, where a fitness show. And I remember the discussion was, you know, hey, we're a health show, spiritual practice is a part of health. This could be very beneficial to to our listeners. I personally was kind of on this spiritual journey. I had a lot of questions myself and I thought interviewing someone as highly ranked as Bishop Baron in one of the most practiced religions in the world would be valuable. I think there'd be some wisdom there. He's also an exceptional speaker. So we thought, okay, let's let's do this. But it was, there was a bit of like fear, right? We didn't know what the reaction would be like, are we gonna get backlash? Like, what's the deal? Are people gonna get mad that it's not a fitness episode, that it's, you know, religion or whatever? And the reality is Bishop Baron, especially the second interview, gave us one of the largest download boosts that we'd ever seen. We saw a huge audience come over to listen to our podcast who might not have ever heard of our podcast. We also had, I saw a huge response from our audience and not from Christians, who people you would expect to say that was great, from people who really had no interest in Christianity, but were very interested in self-improvement, say that they took some bits of wisdom, not necessarily converting, but really they got bits of wisdom from that podcast. Yeah, that was the interesting part. And I think too, just the way that he presented a lot of his ideas and based them off of like old philosophers and authors and, you know, he's just like such a well-read individual and like such a great communicator. And so I think that it was just refreshing for people to hear somebody else that was that intelligent be able to deliver like a spiritual message. So he didn't, he didn't make my top 10 list. Interesting. But the only reason why he didn't is because he was on it last year. And because we've already interviewed. So when I made the top 10 list this year, because there's people and, you know, like Max Lugavere. I agree it would be harder to make the list that was your second time around. Right. So and, and I, but I definitely agree he should be in yours because I know it's been a major impact aside from just the great interview and your life and your journey and where you're at currently right now. So. But I mean, the biggest, the best compliment that I had gotten up until that point or that I'd gotten for interviewing was at that interview. Remember after we were done. They did, which is another reason why it belongs in that top 10. Oh yeah. We went outside and one of his, one of the guy that runs his production company comes outside. And remember Bishop Baron had been interviewed by Dave Rubin, excellent interviewer, Ben Shapiro, excellent, you know, communicator. He'd been on mainstream media. One of his, the guy that runs his production company comes outside and says, you guys interviewed him better than anybody else. What a huge compliment. So and so I, like I agree, but that's why he didn't make mine because it was, I, I tried to narrow it down to people that this was their first time on our show. And, and because he made last year's list, I didn't put them on this show. And it was already really hard to narrow down to 10 people. And, but I agree with you. And that was, that was an incredible compliment. And along the lines of incredible compliments, that leads me to someone who made my list for sure and would be one of my top people that I would present out there. And that's Mark Manson. And for multiple reasons. That interview, I think, stretched me as an interviewer, the amount of homework research that I did on him that I'd already done on him because I already read multiple books of his. I was also really excited because I know a lot of people in, in the podcasting world was going to be interviewing or has interviewed him already, some of our peers. And so there was a part of me that wanted to do a better job and be able to take him places that somewhere that nobody else had heard. So, and I thought we did a great job there. I thought we got things out of him that nobody else did. And in fact, at the end of his book tour, after he had done 150 interviews, he mentioned us as one of the top five, you know, he said he did 150 interviews and, you know, listed our interview with him as one. So that felt really good to get that confirmation after the amount of work and effort I felt that we put into that interview. So that would make for sure. Yeah, I got some comments from people who had heard him on other podcasts and said that they liked him on ours the best. I also learned from his podcast. He's a very wise individual. There's a reason why his book was one of the top selling books ever, definitely in the last five or 10 years. And it was because it's filled with wisdom that's echoed in stoic principles. It's echoed in religious practices and in cultures. And he's got, I think he communicates a message that a lot of people need to hear and it resonated with a lot of people. That's why I sold so many books. And he was fun. He was super fun. He got up and played so relatable. He played Justin's guitar. Yeah, he was my favorite part. Yeah, because it, I mean, he came in wearing a heavy metal shirt. I don't know if it was like Iron Maiden or something like that. But I was just like, oh, you look metal too. And it turns out he plays guitar. It turns out like he's super, you know, easy to talk to. And like, he just started jamming on the guitar with me. It's pretty cool. The biggest thing I took away from his podcast, from his interview was when he said that after his book hit a milestone in sales, he got depressed. And it wasn't, he got depressed because he had been driving so hard to accomplish that to achieve that. Yeah, his whole life. Once he hit it, he was left without that drive or that sense of purpose. And he went through a period of depression after achieving the best success you could ever imagine, which what a great lesson to hear from someone, right? Take that and learn that. Yeah, he's, you know, and I think there's going to be a common theme with the people that we all individually pick, right? The people that are great storytellers always make for good podcast guests. And he was such a great storyteller. Like you said, he has, he's got a lot of wisdom with what he writes. I think we connected really well with him. So for me, that's the first name that I'm going to throw into the hat is like, it's got to be in the top 10 for me because it was all around when. Yeah, for me, and you guys pick some really good ones. I, I, I totally love both those interviews. I also liked, you know, this one's hard for me because, you know, to follow those up, I could make a lot of reasons for, you know, some other candidates. But for me, John Brinkus, because it was this year, I was like, was that last year or this year? I guess it was this year, but it was a surprise guest. It was somebody that kind of came through our area, hit us up, and we're like, wait, who's that? Oh, yeah, that's the guy that was part of this show, that sports science show. I love that show. And he came in, he's so polished. He's, he's just a great, he made my top 10 also. Yeah, he just, and also like we, we had just barely any time to kind of like scramble to prep for him, you know, coming in, but we were, we watched one of his TED talks and he was talking about, you know, women in sports and he had such a contrary idea to, you know, what I had thought, but he presented his argument very well. And so I just thought that I wish I had more time with him, to be honest. So I feel like we didn't have the best interview with him. But if we had a follow up, it'd be amazing. It still was good though. It was good. You know, like, yeah, I, I, he made my top 10. I feel like John is good no matter what. The guy was so polished and so confident and clear with his, with his matches, which is what I took away from it. For me personally, I wouldn't consider one of the top 10. Oh, he didn't break your top 10. No, it was super impactful for me personally. But what the part that I did take away from it was how well someone can present themselves. And that's John. I feel like you put John anywhere. You put them on stage. You put them on radio, whenever you turn on the lights and the guy's going to just present himself exceptionally well. And what I learned from that is because we have no training in media. None of us do what we're all just practicing, podcasting, even today. Watching him, it helps elevate my game. Like, okay, like, look at this guy presents. The part that Justin's talking about, the way he talked about the difference between women and men in sports was so interesting to me. It's probably because it was sports ball. No, it makes sense why it's in our top 10 and not yours. But he is like a first, like there's like a couple people we're going to get to is probably as we get further down the list that I could easily, you could sway me into pushing him out and pushing somebody else in. But he's like, he has to be in my top 10. That's how strong I felt about it because it was, I catch myself every once in a while with an interview where I'm like intently listening. Oh, was that one of them? Yeah, where I wanted to know everything you say. Yes, I just want to, like I could have just sat there and been okay not saying anything and just listening to this guy, keep sharing what he's talking about and been enthralled by the entire conversation. And so when I, when I, I'm very aware when I have moments like that, like, oh, wow, that was a good, fun interview. He was one of those. I think it's a must listen. For even somebody who's not into sports, I think the conversation was really enjoyable. He's polished like Sal says. He absolutely goes in my top 10. So who would be? I got another one for you. And this one because we, every once in a while, we'll meet a guest and we, it's like that, what's that show? Step Brothers where they're like, did we just become best friends? Yeah, yeah. Every once in a while, we'll meet someone. Mike Matthews is like this. Max Lugaviers is like this. Right away, you meet them and you're like, we're friends right away. And this person I'm about to name was just like this. And the reason why this was so impactful was because this is a person that we all followed and listened to for years before Mind Pump was even an idea. I'm talking about Joda Franco. Joda Franco was somebody that all of us looked up to, listened to, I consider him, we all consider him one of the best trainers ever in the world. He's exceptional, but he's also a real dude. He's down to earth. And the part that blew me away was when he showed up, he was a fan of ours. And that's when I, the first time I felt like, wow, I think we're starting to reach a lot of people when Joda Franco is saying he loves our podcast. He's in my top 10 also. Yeah, me too. Yeah, it was, it's just like you said, it was like, dude, do we just become best friends? Because it's like us represented on the East Coast. You know, it's like, where have you been, man? Like, yeah, I've been a big fan of his ever since I found him in college. And it's just, it's surreal actually to, you know, be connected to him now, you know, as an adult. So I'm stoked that we got to have him on the show. And then we had him again, because, you know, he's just that awesome. He's a funny dude down to earth, super smart, but he's one of those people who's, this is what makes him so exceptional is he's, he knows what the hell he's talking about. He's incredibly intelligent and well versed and knowledgeable, but he presents it in an easy to understand, just a ton of wisdom, which makes him effective, full of wisdom. Super effective. He's not just a smart guy. He's full of wisdom. No, he definitely made my list also. And for those reasons, like, and the reason why Max, Ben, you know, Jordan, you know, we have some, we, yeah, we have Matthews. We have some regulars that were on again this year that won't be in my top 10. And it's not because they just because they made it before. And then we've already now become, it's not fair to keep putting them up there. Yeah, yeah, right. They're, they're, they're good friends of ours now. They'll, they'll, they'll probably be lifelong friends of ours. We have the utmost respect for them as not just as podcasters or business entrepreneurs, but as people, human beings. Joe DeFranco falls in that category now. This was the year that we made that connection in bond. So for sure, because of that, and because I think it will become or it already is a relationship like the other people that I was just listing off. He, he makes this year's top 10 for that reason. It may not be the most like for somebody like, oh my God, that was the craziest, great interview. Well, for us, the impact and the, the importance of him as an individual, just for that reason alone, I think he makes my top 10. Now I have another one that I want to name. I don't know if he's going to be on yours. So you get to, you get to go out of order. Oh yeah, I mean, in me, I'm like picking what he's getting. Oh, go for it. Go for it. Come on, guys. I'll save mine. You use your, you use yours up right there and we can't double dip. Yeah, guy. So you, you know what, you know, don't play sports. He doesn't have rules. He plays bi over here. All right. You gotta pass the ball. Yeah. So we all agree on that one. Another one that I think we might all agree on that is definitely in my top 10 list. And the main reason why, and and if I think Dan Wells should be in all of our list, because we, we talk about this on the show a lot, that we are comfortable with our paradigm being shattered. And we are very quick to say that we don't have all the answers. And when we're wrong, we admit it. And, you know, on this show, I have referred to the book Irresistible and iGen and unplugged probably a thousand times and been teased about it. And to the point where I could probably be borderline fear mongering, our audience mongering, like mongering, mongering, fear mongering, mongering. You fear someone so much to become mongrel. I could be so bad that because it, I think it impacted those books impacted me so much that it really did scare me like, Oh my God, I got to be really careful about my kid in tech. And what do I do? And then when we have, we have near I.L. on the show. And completely, completely blew all our minds. Right. And because he was the complete counter to that message, to the point where, and I wouldn't say it completely relaxed me on the other side, because I still, I still think that Adam Attler's Irresistible is a must read in a very important book. It's just now provided me a nice, nice balance of the complete opposing argument and what supports that side really, really well. And now feeling really confident in hearing both of them and agreeing with both of them, I find that I have a really nice understanding and balance of how I want to approach raising my son and the tech in my family. So that episode and not to mention another one of those really enthralling conversations. He dispelled a lot of myths. You know, I mentioned how kids are more depressed. And he said, actually, they're not. And we mentioned the problem with tech. And he said, actually, and he presented to research and he explained himself very well. He made a very compelling case. And basically the case is, yes, you should develop practices around technology, but technology is not causing the problem. It's a symptom of some of the problems. And it was pretty, it was, it was, I must have said you're blowing my mind to him. I think five times during the episode. Calm down. I learned not to say hijacking around him. That's a trigger. Did he make your guys his top 10? Yeah, he did. He did. And to be fair, right now, I was going to take one, but I know Sal would probably rather talk about the one I was probably going to mention, which is probably above this. But you know, in terms of like where Adam went with that, I think that this was like the start who actually introduced us to near A.L., which is Mark Weinstein. And the reason why I pick him, and I don't know if he's in your guys top 10 or not, but I just found that a very entertaining podcast, which is outside of what we'd normally talk about, it was literally, the timing of it actually worked out to where it was relevant for once. You know, like so the, the fire festival, if you guys are familiar with, you know, the Netflix documentary about that, it was, it's very pop culture, which is not something we cover like very often, but it was just, it was fun to get an insider look at like everything else that they probably didn't even bring up in the documentary. And I feel like a lot of people enjoyed that episode as well. Oh yeah, you got to hear what actually happened at the fire festival from a guy who was there. And his video interview, because that was one of the first ones that we recorded and put up on YouTube. It flew. It was, it was, and people were commenting who'd never heard of Mind Pump. They were just commenting about the whole thing. Fire festival documentary was already exploded. It was a great conversation. Mark was very open. He was very forthcoming. He was easy to interview, great conversationalist. Didn't make my top 10, but definitely was one of the, it was definitely a good interview. I really, really enjoyed it. I'm with you. He didn't make my top 10, but I could make the case for it too. And so I understand why he, he's up there for adjusted. And that one was actually, I was really proud of that one. That was something that I, I actually caught that, uh, that documentary. I saw him talking on the show. I then started to follow him, reached out to him and then got him to come on the show and thought, this would be a really cool challenge for us to Justin's point. Like it was, you know, during that time when we were really starting to move out of just fitness guests all the time, like last year was like all fitness guests for 90% of our interviews, where we were really pushing this year to kind of stretch our boundaries and go outside that. This was an area where I thought would kind of challenge all of us. It was a different type of guest. It was during that when it was all hot and popping. So I was really curious with and it was interesting. And Mark was a really good storyteller and did. So it was, it's up there. It's a fucking, it was a great one. It, it didn't make my top 10 only because it's, it was, it's hard to make the top 10 with all the great people, right? Yeah. Is it my turn now? Yeah, go. Let me have the ball. This next person I picked because of the pure quality, brilliant information that they provided on the podcast. And I got a lot of messages from people who said it was one of the best podcasts they'd heard on the subject of the microbiome and how probiotics affect the body. This was Roger Deere. He was young dude, comes in brilliant and he breaks down how the microbiome works. He breaks down how probiotics work in the body. He communicated it very well. It's a bit of a high level project. I was just saying, how's my top informative podcast? It was, it was made my list. I got lots of messages from people who are like, this was the best episode on that topic that I've ever heard. And again, it's a higher level. Yeah. It didn't make my top 10 because I don't think it, I think the majority of people it was almost too heavy. But I agree with both of you that talk about it for me, I was another one of those guests for I'm just like hanging on every word he said and like, it was all new information for me. I think that's why I got so sucked in. No, it was, it was brilliant, but it didn't make the top 10 for that, for that reason. I just feel like it was too high a level for, for. Oh, I loved it, man. I was, and I learned, you know, microbiome is something that I'm always very fascinated about. And it was, you know, I got to sit down with someone actually learn things. He was communicating things I had not learned before. Like how, how, you know, probiotics actually work in the body, how there's, how they're studying different parts of the human body and how they have their own unique, you know, microbiome fingerprint. If you're interested in gut health or mental health and the effects of the microbiome, that is an episode for sure you need to listen to. But again, it's high level. So you might need to listen to it more than once. So I have, I have some obvious ones that I feel like should come in the list, but I'm going to pick one of the, one of the other ones on my list. I don't know if major guys is list. And again, I'm staying with this theme of, you know, kind of paradigm shattering of interviews for me or people that are counter what our message is. Like I really liked that. And especially if we did a good job of interviewing. And that is Sanjay Raul, Raul. Oh, he's on mine. Is he on yours? He's on mine. I loved, I love this guy. There's a, there's a few people that we've met, you know, we talked about people that we meet and that we click and we're like, oh, we're just friends. Then there's like a couple people that I've met who I genuinely think that they are among the best people in the world, just pure good people. He was one of them. Like it was, he's a long distance runner. That's why I picked it because it's so counter our message, right? We're so the anti run marathon type guys. And to listen to him share his story, his kind of message and presenting that it really again gave gave me the other end of the spectrum. I know I've already got my own information on the support, my, my thoughts and beliefs on marathon running and just running in general for your, your, your dominant way of exercise to hear him from the complete opposite share, his beliefs and his, his thoughts and, and ideology around marathon running really was he sold me so hard on the meditative, transformative, spiritually transformative potential effects of grueling, long distance running. I mean, the way he talked about and explained it and how it became a part of his spiritual practice and how it was part of a spiritual practice that he, a group of people long to you listen to him talking like that makes perfect sense. And I can definitely see the, I can definitely understand the transformative effects that this has had on you. And he was, the reason why he was on my top 10 Adam is because he was completely unexpected. I did not. Oh yeah. That was another one of those guests where we almost didn't do it. Yeah. I didn't expect it to be that exceptional and phenomenal of an episode. And when he left, I felt like uplifted from talking out. Definitely an episode you need to listen to for sure. That one was awesome. I guess I'll talk about Dr. Arthur Brooks because again, as far as us like debating whether or not to really make that happen this year, like we're like, eventually, you know, maybe we'll be able to catch him on a time where it's, you know, more convenient. Like we had just watched his amazing, the pursuit is documented on Netflix. And I just thought he, and I am not, I'm not big on politics. In fact, like Sal, just hanging out with you enough has gotten me to, you know, dive in a little bit more and get, you know, more like interest in that direction at all. It used to be repulsive to me to even like talk about it with people because it's so polarizing. And I just thought that, you know, that documentary that he created was just so well done and brought it back down to, you know, the roots of, you know, what we all need to be, you know, focused on and how we can better society, you know, by doing, you know, these simple things. And I thought that, you know, meeting him in person again, my mind was blown that he first of all knew who we were was connected to Bishop Barron. And then we go down there and then he listens to our show. Like that just, it was crazy. That was like, I was super ready to fangirl over him. And then he was doing it back to us. I'm like, this is weird. Like this is so crazy that someone that I became a massive fan over because I watched this documentary, then I started reading everything that he wrote. And I'm like, this guy is incredible. And then we meet him and he's like, Oh, I've been listening to you guys for two years. I was like, Holy shit. His talk at that event had all of us into all of us got emotional listening to what he was saying. And because of that powerful, it's obvious we did not order these in from one to 10 to one being the best, because I think this one we probably would agree would be our number one guest of the year for all of those reasons. Yeah, I thought we did a good job interviewing. I thought the whole we always surprising. Yeah, we almost didn't go. So it surprised the shit out of us, the experience, great fan response. Yeah, I think that he would for sure be up there. One thing that he said in his talk that blew me that just blew me. I don't care if you're spiritual religious or not. It was just such an impactful thing as he talked about the value of fathers in particular, having a spiritual practice for their children. So he's making the case for it. And he says, you know, when you're a child, the biggest, strongest, you know, toughest person in the world is your dad. And for a lot of us, that's very true. It was for me as a kid. I know objectively, my dad is not the biggest, toughest, strongest in the world. But when I was a kid, he was, I 100% and to my kids, I am. I know my kids, I remember my son was five years old. He asked me genuinely asked me if I could pick up the house. He literally thought I was like, can you lift up the house? You know, because when you're that age and you see your dad, he is the strongest person in the world. And then to see your father bend his knee and bow to someone else, to a God, to a spiritual practice, what a powerful message you're sending, because you are the most powerful person. Now what are you sending that message to your child is, hey, even the strongest, most powerful person in the world bows down to this, this belief that we have, regardless of what your religion, why give me chills talking about when he said that, I think all of us were, I looked to the right and left and I could say, oh, we're all fighting tears right now. What a powerful, powerful message. The other thing he said in his talk was that the opposite of love is fear. And that for me struck really home because I was left with so much fear for my divorce, carrying it into my, into my, into my current relationship. And for some reason I always thought the opposite of love was this hate and anger, hate and anger, hate and anger is no, it's fear. It makes perfect sense. You can't love a hundred percent if you're fearful. So you need to, and to love fully is to be completely vulnerable. What a powerful message. What he talked about moral courage and then standing up for the people that you, that you disagree with, the importance of that. I mean, he had so many quotes or stories he told, or I think that just, I think it hit everybody. So he's, he's got to be, and everybody's topped it. Now for the last one, since we're at 10 right now, and it wouldn't be, no, it wouldn't be fair for you to make your, your 10th because you got to go the, so this last one, I think we should all make a case for somebody different and then we should agree on that last person, right? So I'm sure we all have somebody on the list that is different from each other. So the first name I'm going to throw in the hat that each of us can and then we can, we can decide and agree on one. I feel like Ryan Holiday has to make my list there again. And I know that it may not pass by you guys because it might be too closely related to like a Mark Manson as far as what that interview was like, because very similar. They both pull from stoicism. They both are popular authors right now, young guys, even though their message is not the same in some areas, it's similar, their friends themselves. But again, just a fun all around interview for me. I felt like we did some of our best work with him. I thought we asked some really cool questions. I think we got to take him, he's another guest that's been on a lot of these other podcasts that we know and that are friends of ours. And I took a lot of personal pride in trying to get him places that nobody else had. I thought we did a good job there and then also really liked him. So that would be a person. I liked that one. I enjoyed that conversation with him for sure. And I appreciate all the books he's put out and what he's doing impacting people with his message. But I would probably vote for Tommy Caldwell, mainly because his story in general is just so crazy. So he's on my list too. You get to see it in his documentary and if you read up on him. And he's been on multiple interviews, but I felt like we were able to get a lot more details of his capture. And he really got intense when he was reliving that and telling that experience to us. And I just got sucked in. And it was just a very engaging and entertaining ride that we had with him. I think those are both really good. I have a third person that's different. And this person has been on our podcast more than once. So I know that doesn't fit your criteria, Adam. But the reason why I'm picking this person is because each time we had this person on the first and second time, we've had such a massive response from our audience, in particular, our female audience. And I feel like that they often, we need to talk to them a little bit more about some of the stuff that we're not necessarily experts in that affect them, things like their hormones and birth control. And this is Dr. Jolene Brighton. Dr. Jolene Brighton, she's exceptional at what she does. She communicates things the right way. And when we have her on the show, the outpouring of support we get from our female audience like, thank you so much for having her on. Oh my God, I love her so much. Thank you so much for you three dudes to address an issue that has nothing to do with you guys, but has everything to do with just women. Thank you for doing that. And I don't know if the first time we had on the show, was that last year? Was that 2018? Or were they both this year? I think they're both this year. Oh, good. So she qualifies then. Oh, really? I thought she was last year. That's actually why she didn't make my top 10. Because I did that. I kind of went like, okay, that's somebody who probably made last year. I think Doug might be right. I think she was both times this year. Dr. Jolene Brighton for sure, if that's the case. Yeah, that's the case. Yeah, I would kind of lean in that direction as well. It was very, again, this is information that I think everybody benefited from, you know, men included. And it was just a good insight. And it's just so much research has been involved, you know, with her. And I just, I appreciated like every part of that conversation. Yeah, this is her, if you want to learn about the effects and from a doctor, right? So the effects of birth control on the body. And she communicates well. She communicates really well. Very well. She's extremely likeable. She's going to be, you know, we taught, we told her, Hey, we want you on the show relatively regularly because we liked her so much. So yeah, I think she should definitely be. I can concede to that being our 10th one, because I'll go with that. I actually did think that we had her up there last year already. And if we didn't, that alone makes her a top 10 for sure. Cause she is, she's like, she's one of those guests that, especially if I'm talking to a female, I say, you have to listen to this episode. There's just, there's so much valuable content for, for a woman that you have to listen to it. And I think, like you said too, that lots of men can benefit from it too, but it's like a must listen if you're, if you're a woman and you haven't listened to that episode of ours. Oh, I consider it one of our core episodes. And her, her social media and the way she communicates to our audience. So valuable. I mean, her Instagram is, Instagram is a hard platform to make really valuable. And she does a really, really good job doing it. Do you guys think we should name some of our least favorite or do you think she'll leave us out? I was glancing at the list. And there's, God, this year was, you know, there was a year where I felt like we had quite a few that were kind of like, weren't weren't 10 episodes. But even when I look at some of my least favorite, I wouldn't say that they were they're bad or like I didn't like them or you know, they just, they just, it's hard to make the top 10 or the ones that were just super amazing. Probably one of the least impactful for me in let downs was William Hyde. And that was, I think we're going to blend that on Sal. I think that was one that he thought it would be great to have somebody who was a expert in, what did we think he was an expert in? Was that, was that our cannabinoid? So here's the problem. Now, here's the reason why that was a problem. I had contacted, no, no, hey, listen, I had contacted, I think it was leafy to have them send us a scientist on cannabinoids. They didn't send us a scientist. They send us the podcast host. A bud tinder. Yeah. And when we started talking cannabinoids, you know, Adam and I were both sitting there going, we kind of like, we've communicated what you're saying right now. You're not telling us anything new. Right. Wasn't bad. It wasn't bad. No, it wasn't. It wasn't. No, but if you're going to, if we're going to try and categorize a handful of what I think are worse, that one would be mine that I thought was just kind of want one. I got one for you. And this was just, it was a rough, it was just a rough interview. It just seemed so formulaic. It was so hard to pull this person out. Steffi Cohen. Yeah. I, you know, not a bad person, but she came with the pages of notes and it was so hard to pull her out of that. Well, that was the one, that was the one that I wasn't there. I wasn't there. That's a factor. But you know, on top of that too, like I think there was just so many walls. There's way too many walls coming in. Like there was, well, we can't talk about this subject. We can't talk about PEDs. Can't talk about transgenders, you know, athletes. And I'm like, well, those are the interesting things. Yeah. What are we left with here? Yeah, that was the first. It was tough. So I wasn't there and you guys told me that this, so this is the first person that I ever remember that's ever told us we can't talk about something. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like I don't, normally everybody's, oh, whatever, you know, take me wherever you want. Yeah. We haven't had too many guests that have given us rules on what we can and can't ask them. No, and it was, there was at one point, I almost felt like- Did you say she had her notes too? She had notes. The first time I've seen that. And I also, I haven't seen it. I think she might have been nervous. Honestly, I think she might have been nervous. Yeah, that might have been the case. And, but at one point I think she even took something that I said to a fence. I felt like she got offended, which I wasn't saying anything offensive at all. I don't remember what I said. I can't remember exactly what it was, but I asked her a question and she was almost like, how dare, you know, she had this look on her face like, oh, I think you might have taken me the wrong way. Yeah. But it wasn't, it was, and that one let me down because I'm really looking forward to interviewing her because she's such an exceptional athlete. Oh, she's revered by so many people. Yeah. Yeah. So that one definitely makes the top, the bottom, top of the bottom list. Top of the bottom. Oh, man. Let's see. I, I mean, Brandon Harris for me, it's just, it was ridiculous. Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah. Like the, I mean. That belongs. Poor guy. I felt kind of like a bully bring him in here. You know, it's like, oh, the idea was like, let's see if, you know, we can challenge, you know, a guest a bit. Do you remember what, okay. So I remember what happened here and that, and I think the reason why it has to go on this list and why this was a good, good for us though. I'm glad we did it because there was a point where we thought, okay, you know, maybe we should bring guests on things that we think is absolute bullshit and let's fucking hammer them on the show. Right. Let's bring them on the show. That'll make for great entertainment. People are going to love to hear us do that. And what ended up happening with him is we actually really liked him as a person. Yeah. And then also. He's a genuine guy. Yeah. He is a really good guy with good intentions and just happened and is making a lot of money off some gimmicky bullshit fucking item. But you know, I think he comes from a good place. His intentions were pure. I think that's, we all read into that and it was like, then it kind of turned and we're like, yeah, this doesn't feel as good. I mean, it was, it was fun to kind of joke around about it and like how silly the product was and whatnot. But a worthless episode. Yeah, but it was worthless. Worthless episode. It totally was. Yeah. 100% you could skip that episode and be okay. Yeah. And I would never recommend that. Like, I don't know why we did it. I forgot all about that episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right though. It was good for us to test that out. And be like, yeah, we should never do that again. Because we were, remember, we were going back and forth for a while like, you know, this is what we need to do. Yeah, we got to get more controversial. And we were, I remember he wasn't the only person. I was reaching out to some other people that I knew were kind of promoting a bad message or bullshit. And the intention was we're going to bring them on there and fucking hammer them. You know what I'm saying? They're going to come on because it's exposure for them. So it's going to be a no-brainer for them. Come on. And then we're going to get on there and be hard. But what we realized was, it was like we are trying to be a dick. And we didn't want to be. We're not bullies. It didn't feel right because we liked him as a person. And not only that, but you're on our home turf. We're going to bring you on. We're going to hammer you. It's like, we're not bullies. You know what I mean? At the end of the day. No. I'm sure that works well for other media companies. You know, there's other people who make a living. Like hardball. Yeah, do me all that. But no, especially if somebody nice who's not going to defend themselves in a way that's going to make us, you know, invoke us to get that type of. That's how I felt. I felt like this guy is not going to like throw a punch back. So this is not going to be fun to sit here and beat up on. There's another podcast that we did interview that surprised me because I didn't think it would be that great. I really didn't. It was Doug Bopst. I didn't think it was. I thought I was going to turn into another one of those brand inheritors. I thought it's not going to be a good episode. But he's such a nice, genuine guy and that conversation was pretty good. And I left with that going, oh, that was better than I thought. Well, what was so surprising was how well it was received. The audience like. They did. Oh, man, they loved that episode. Well, I was like, wow. The reason why I think that is, is think about all the shit that he had been through and himself and admittedly called himself. I like talk about a very authentic. Yes, that's what it was. Very authentic. I mean, I mean, some people on here is totally being honest. Some people that we like or that we enjoy episodes, a lot of sometimes they're just polished. Like we already mentioned that a couple of times that, you know, some guests are good at entertaining because they're good at what they do. They're good at talking on camera and they're good at presenting a great story. And that doesn't, it's not a knock on them. That's fucking awesome. That's what makes them great. But then there's some people that you just like them because they're fucking real and they're just all of themselves all and they present their flaws. This is who I am. Yes, I was an asshole or an idiot or I didn't know better. And just honest. Yes. Very, very honest. And so that's what I got from his story was that it wasn't, it definitely wouldn't make my top 10. I, in fact, I thought it was also going to be one that was kind of like whatever, but what a really genuine good dude with a pretty crazy story. And, and I think that's why that was nicely. Another one like that, well, kind of like that. Like we had him on, Mike Mccastle was one that I actually really enjoyed that conversation. I loved his mentality expectations. Yeah, he, he was a real coach. You know, he, like he was a trainer's trainer and he was able to do these feats of strength that were just, it seems impossible. And, you know, you've seen a lot of this on social media of people getting drawn into the hype, you know, the hype. There's a lot of these guys out there that are, you know, just hammering themselves and doing brutal things that, you know, people rally because it's so impressive, but it's like, man, like you're killing yourself out there. But he, the reason why he's doing things, the way that he's training for these, the message behind what he's doing is, I just felt like it's so much better. Do you guys remember how that all came out? Do you remember how that, how we even got him as a guest? Why we got him as a guest and he did this stuff? No, because he was mentioned. I know that I heard his name from one of his clients that was trying to cross Antarctica by foot. Yeah. And so he trained him and mentioned him on Joe Rogan. But then I think you followed up and then- So what made me pursue him, you introduced me. I started following him after you brought him up. And what made me pursue him was at the same time we've had, we had David Goggins team had been reaching out to be on our show and we've had quite a few people saying, you got to get David Goggins on the show. And so I've listened to his interviews and I'm not a fan of the message. It's the motivation push through Navy SEAL type of message, which of course I've talked about before that it's just, it's not my favorite message to the fitness community. I think it feeds more into- It's over represented in the fitness space. And that's my point, right? And that's not a knock on those guys or those stories- Not taking anything away from it, like very impressive. But yeah, again, oversaturated. Right. And so when people would reach out to ask me about it, I mean, I'm not a fan of his message. But yes, I'm impressed by his feats and he's got a great story, whatever, but that's not enough for me to want him on the show. When I found out that my castle was the person who broke David Goggins record in pull-ups and I looked into my castle and that his trainer background, the way he goes about training for these type of feats, the reason why he does these feats, the motivation behind it is a lot different than Goggins. And I liked that. And I wanted him to come on and present that message. If you want to do some crazy fucking thing, the way that Mike presents that I think is different and I liked him because of that. And so that's what pursued it. And then he ended up being a great guest. He did. He took me by surprise. Incredible smart trainer, very good dude, very underrated too. I don't think he has much of a fall. He's not a big name in the space. It's so surprising. Yeah, because I mean, he's just doing the most impressive things that anybody I can even think of. Well, too busy doing it in real life. Yeah, he's an action guy. Yeah. He's less of a talking guy. He's all business. Yeah. Anyway, excellent year, guys. It's been a great year with you boys. And I look forward to another phenomenal year in 2020. With that, go to mindpumpfree.com and download all of our free guides and resources. You can also find all of us on Instagram. You can find Justin at Mind Pump Justin. You can find me at Mind Pump Sal and Adam at Mind Pump Adam.