 سادگرو ایسا بہت مرسلت ہم جانتے ہیں ہمارے حقیقتی جنگچہ کو سکتے ہیں یہ بہت مہرے علیہ دہتے ہیں ہمارے ملی فرمائے میں بہت ملی پہنچی و ہندو اور ملی فرمائے میں آج ساتھ جانتے ہیں سارے ساتھ آگانے کے لئے سارے ساتھ سکتے ہیں جس میں ہے جس میں ہمارے ساتھ سکتے ہیں اس پر ذات میں نقصہ ہمارے ساتھ بھی خون کیا ہے یا تب کیسے آپ درشتی ہے بہتر ملنے میں بہتر کیا ہے؟ کیا آپ اس مجھے پیدا کیا؟ یہ مجھے لگتا ہے۔ یہ مجھے حصول بہت ساتھ ہوتا ہے۔ تو بہت ساتھ مجھے ساتھ پہنچی درشت ہے۔ وہ بہت کچھ بہترین بہترین بہترین بہترین بہترین ہے۔ سال لذا کسی محابوس پر اگر سال کرنا چاہتے ہیں میں کمشک کرنے سان You'll Be Welcome تویانی مرم AND HEAL کمشک کرنے کے لئے کسی سال جاتا جاتا جاتا جاتا جاتا ہے اگر سال کے حالت ہوج Kennedy ایک سال کتویان منبتکائی جو کامید شاہتا ہے جو ان پروگیی مکنے کا مبادر لے حالت ہوں جو کتویان تصمید کیا تو اس پرپلم initiatives جو کتویان کیا کتویان چاہتا ہے یہ بہت سکتے ہیں کہ ہمارے Wade by آجنگ مباہات یہ بہت سکتر کے لئے ہمارے بہت سکتے ہیں کیونکہ یہ بہت سکتا ہے کہ آپ نےereca구以 لئے 1528 کے لئے ہیں سب سے ایک کچھ ب긴 ہے ہے مبابک ایک دولتے ہیں یہ بہت بہت دیکھا ہے اس بہت سے ضرورت پرے لیتے ہیں یہ ایک دول مصہرک ہے اور بہت ہی کجھ یہ ترحیح تورہ کیا ہے کہ انویدروں کو بہت دیتے ہیں کہ ہمیں معاہد میں ایک جیہاد ہوتا ہے بابر ایک جیہاد کیا ہے جو کبھی ایک جیہاد ہوتا ہے اور انہوں نے ایک چیزی کیا ہوتا ہے جب انہوں نے یہ اجترہ کرے گئی جب اجترہ ایک نیسان کے اجترہ ہے لیکن اجترہ میں اجترہ دیگہ یہاں بھی اکورتا ہے today's Muslim community is very important that today's Muslim community does not identify with those people is very important at the same time it's very important that the Hindu community also do not identify the present generation of Muslims with the atrocities of the past. this is very important then the problem becomes very simple as to how to handle it right now this onerous task has been given but it's a very good thing it's coming to some sort of conclusion because kicking the can to the next generation is not an answer which is what we have done for a very long time it is very important on various levels we are making this effort right now because people have given such a huge mandate to this government because they want them to solve problems problems which are an impediment for the development of this nation for the future of this nation sovereignty issue citizenship issues this temple mosque issues everything must be settled in our generation so that future generations who live in this nation don't have to live with this endemic problems there will be other issues to handle for them but not these endemic issues of the past very interesting because some people are saying that all these issues tie in with a majoritarian sort of agenda that is being pushed by this government how do you respond to those people see there is a small group of people and they are not even Muslims those people are always trying to ferment problems if you look at the whole history of Babri Masjid case or the iodia Ram temple case whichever way you want to call it in the last 40 45 years which is the if we can say the some attempts to find solution you will see when responsible archaeologists clearly produce evidence definitely there was a grand temple out here when one level of excavation or without excavation when they were standing columns 12 columns standing in the mosque with all kinds of Hindu motives when this evidence was produced they said this is not good enough and Allahabad high court ordered one more excavation in 2003 this excavation unearthed 50 columns in 17 different rows clearly showing there was a very grand temple out there before this so evidence is substantial it's just a handful of people who are professors and who call themselves professors and scholars who are not even archaeologists who have misguided the whole nation and made this into a Hindu Muslim issue this is not that kind of a issue unfortunately they have managed to divide the country on this it's time these people are not empowered in any way to talk further about this it's very important the nation speaks clearly that we want solutions we don't want to kick the problems for tomorrow and hope they will go away they will not go away like that we have to see address them head on and come to a solution everybody whatever solution we come to there will be some give and take somebody feels loss somebody feels gain but considering the nature of this problem see for Islam this Babri Masjid does not represent Mohammed or any of his legacy it represents Babar so definitely the Islamic community should not identify themselves with the legacy of Babar because then all the atrocities also will come upon their heads they should not do this but for the Hindus the emotion is that this is the place of Rama who is the icon maybe Rama is not such a big icon in the south but in the northern communities where millions of people for them it is the ultimate place in a way if we have to draw parallels for a whole lot of devotees who worship Rama who is the icon for them for them this is the Makkah of India so there is no need to quarrel about 2.77 acres is it worth quarrelling for five centuries it's very interesting you seem to put the onus on the Masjid side to drive towards a resolution or a solution but their councils have been arguing in the courts that Ayodhya dispute would have been settled long back if it was accepted that Rama was not born under the central dome this is what Rajiv Dhawan has said in court how do you look upon this particular line of argument see nobody even knows where our grandfather was born all right exact spot the important thing is Rama was born in Ayodhya and they say that was the place millions of people believe that is the place whether he was born there or ten feet away or a hundred feet away from that place what does it matter what kind of argument is that this is because certain number of people in this country which is fortunately a small group try one problems they want to find problems in every solution it is time we find solutions in every problem there is a problem we must find a solution the judgement is nearby we must respect this and go ahead and above all I think in many ways you know the responsible Muslim community which I feel is over 95% of them are like that it's only a fringe elements fringe elements are there in both communities ignore the fringe elements if you take the responsible community then you will see this emotion towards 2.77 acres is not there in them they will be willing to settle and above all in a way before the judgement comes if they take a step because this is a historic moment if they want to grab this history into their hands as they were the most responsible people before the judges come out with their judgement they should make a statement Muslims of this nation make a statement okay it means so much to you you do it the question is not about Hindu versus Muslim the question is for one person the emotion is super important for another person it's just a piece of property so tell me where the solution should come from otherwise the judgement will come and even if the judgement comes we can continue this problem all I'm saying is do not continue this problem let us focus on addressing genuine problems that we have we don't have to create new problems India has many problems of nourishment of poverty you know various problems are there instead of addressing that we are just creating problems and playing football with that it's very interesting because some people argue that the exact site of birth is at the core of this case now you've said that we all know that he was born in Ayodhya so what does it what difference does it make whether he was born under the central dome or not but the courts go into such minutiae because law cannot take a position an emotion that's what the purists will tell you that's what people familiar with the law will tell you what do you have to say to those people who say that look no one denies that Lord Rama was born in Ayodhya the dispute would have been settled had the Hindus accepted that he wasn't born under the central dome in that exact spot see if the debate and the problem was that both Rama and Mohammed were born close by within hundred feet of each other and then we are debating whether this is Mohammed's place of birth or Rama's place of birth that would have been a real problem now Mohammed was born a thousand miles away and Rama was born here if Rama was born hundred feet away from the dome what is your problem that should not even be the line of argument I would say this kind of thing is coming because you don't want a solution because a whole lot of people are using this problem as an investment to build their own political futures or whatever else they're planning so if you look at the way they discredited the archaeological survey of India whatever evidence they came up with these few so called scholars or you know professors from certain universities who went about doing this if you look at that it is very clear they had their own personal agendas they were not interested in the evidence going by the evidence definitely there is a temple Rama born there are not there you can debate forever it's over 6000 years ago nobody can geographically fix it alright you can put a google dot on it but was there a temple 100% everybody knows this now is there so much emotion in the Islamic community about it no they have just feel wronged that the mosque was brought down so now when they know in the history a certain wrong was there somebody is trying to write it you can't go on rejiging history Hindus also must understand this this one thing there is so much emotion it's come so far and this could be a big impediment for nations development in some way we must come to a solution even when the court gives a judgment it's very important once again we don't go into two thirds belongs to somebody one third belongs to somebody again there will be no solution some decisive solution should come if we don't have the courage to take that step we will only kick the problem to the next generation and that's not the way to handle things let me ask you sir there's always a winner or a loser in a court case do you believe that the Hindu side should be given without any ambiguity the entire title in this suit do you believe so to avoid a conflict from perpetuating as you've said to the next generations see we need to understand this in 1855 there was a terrible right regarding the same issue but in 1857 both Hindus and Muslims came together to fight what we call as the first war of independence it is after that the colonial design became such that if these two communities get together they will be severely weakened so the East India Company put out a plan and they came up with many many ways of dividing the two one thing is they decided Muslims should get separate education and they must have a separate oath they vote separately, Hindus vote separately all these kind of laws they brought in just to divide the country let us not be a slave of that device today after 70 years of independence let whatever you are in your heart you may be a Hindu or a Muslim let that be a personal faith but we belong to one nation it is important we want a solution what is the solution if you ask now you want me to spell out Rahul that oh I support the Hindu community no I am not that kind it is not about supporting the Hindu community or Islamic community I want the impediments for the development of this nation to be gone I am sure 95% of the country's population is with me on this one that they want the impediments for the development of this country to be gone in whatever form it is so right now this is one of them which has been a thorn which has been bothering this nation for quite some time so it should go can you move Ram out of Ayodhya and put him in Chennai is it possible no because he also came to Tamil Nadu can we say he was born here it's not going to work so obviously it's not going to work so let's do it the way it works it's not the question of taking this side or that side we want a solution not for Hindus not for Muslims we want a solution for the forward moment of this nation so what in your words would be the best solution to ensure that our nation progresses without impediments well there were sovereignty issues we are trying to settle that there are citizenship issues we are trying to settle that there is a temple and mosque issues we are trying to settle that this is a good thing see the very idea that people have given a massive mandate because they believe they are going to sort out the problems well when we try to sort out the problems will it happen in a perfect way no we must understand this no human action is ever perfect we may have perfect intentions but when we execute something it is never perfect so those imperfections somebody may perceive as injustice let us keep this down for some time let us understand in this whole thing what I see is the main mischief has come from the colonial forces and the second level of mischief has come from very far left leaning kind of scholars and professors so let us remind them that when we say Islam we talk about Mohammed Mohammed said whole earth is a mosque for me can you make a more inclusive statement than that please let the Muslims live by that when we say Hindus now they talking about Rama Rama is that kind of man just to out of his integrity he gives up his kingdom he is a coronated king but he walks away into the forest and his wife is stolen terrible things are done but when he kills his enemy who stole his wife and did terrible things to the people he repents having killed him so that is the man you are fighting for don't forget and for the leftist left them remember all this conniving nonsense that they are doing everywhere even today they are continuing like this I want to remind them they are not progeny of Joseph Stalin or Maoistang they are supposed to represent Karl Marx who thought of an equitable society a society without disparities a compassionate economy which will nurture every human being this is what he represents please let all three remember this right now this fanning of that you know Hindu Muslims must fight this whole thing is unfortunately not coming from Islamic community or largely from Hindu community there are fringe elements on both sides I am not saying no but largely it is coming from left cleaning extremists what is their interest in religion they should not even be interested in religion but they are always playing with this I request all of them please understand whom you represent you represent Mohammed you cannot do this if you represent Ram you cannot do this if you represent Karl Marx you cannot do this so left leaning extremists now the prime minister has come up with a term to describe some of them he says that they have occupied a vast influence over the minds of this country because they are located very close to the center of power I mean you can call it the Latin zone you can call it the Khan market consensus what have you but do you believe these individuals have a motivated interest or are they just ideologically driven to doing this see that is what I said their ideology is about Karl Marx they are motivated because unfortunately they have understood this when Marx envisioned communism he thought richest nations will go for communism because he believed out of our humanity we will become communist but right now they have understood only if there is poverty there will be communism to convert people into communism you need endemic poverty in this nation so they are working towards that they must be defeated because this is not good for the country the country is striving to progress people are striving to fulfill their aspirations and some people their aspiration is in based in poverty as a capital very interesting very eye opening and interesting sadguru I want to ask you that inevitably in a court case there will be one winner and loser I am telling you they are yes no go ahead you were saying something go ahead no I am telling you how far this ghost means this is not just about temple and mosque these same people are going about campaigning if you plant a lot of trees it's dangerous for the country how do you what do you say about that very interesting yeah I mean look there is obviously a massive debate raging in the country about the contribution of certain individuals but I just want to take it away from that a little bit because it's not about the country because your time is precious to us now there will be a side that might go away feeling hard done that injustice to use the words that you used have been done to them how should they cope with this who should they turn to to deal with this sense of loss if I may if they feel whatever the court may say I would advise I would advise either the Uttar Pradesh government if it is in their hands or the central government should do something to assuage their hurt in whichever form they think is best more than what is needed they must do to ensure that they don't feel hurt do you think there should be a temporal this is very important because this is not one generation so how should this how should this outreach it is not a one generations problem should it be through what sort of resolution mechanism would you suggest see one thing is I am not an expert or a scholar on Islam but from what little I have known one thing that clearly states that a mosque cannot exist on a disputed land when Mohammed speaks about a mosque he says it can be anywhere it can even be open space but only condition is it must be clean clean not just physically clean in every way clean that means he is telling you that there should be no disputes about it it must be a clean piece of land where we can assemble and seek God of course the highest possibility whatever you believe in you are trying to seek the highest possibility so in such a place let us not when there is such a big dispute and such negative emotion about it and somebody has so much angst that their temple has been taken I think even by the dictates of the religion there is simply not necessary somebody should educate them in the right sense rather than raking up and saying that injustice has happened tell me how to do justice divide it 50-50 this is like the Solomon's wisdom he asked the people two women claiming a child is there he said okay let us cut it into two then the mother said you take it I am not going to cut my child into two so don't go by this thing this Solomon's wisdom we must understand cutting it into pieces is not a solution we must offer a solution which will be good for everybody but there will be hurt as you said to assuage that if the court may just go by the law they may not bother to assuage the hurt the government should reach out and assuage the hurt it's very important the Hindu community should reach out and assuage the hurt that is very important you should not feel you should not burst crackers and jump around and we won we won this should not happen in the country you must have the humility that Ram had you must bow down to them that's it beautiful words yes beautiful words no triumphalism let's demonstrate the humility that Ram demonstrated even in victory thank you very much sadguru thank you it's been a very productive conversation and I hope your message resounds