 script pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12th, 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law, general law, Chapter 30A, Section 18. This meeting of the transportation of advisory committee is being conducted via remote participation. This meeting is being recorded at the web and could be shown on Amherst Media and broadcast in the town of Amherst YouTube channel. I don't, oh yeah, to say, okay, I see the recording light is on. Anybody dialing in by phone can press star nine to raise their hand to be recognized. People with video can click on the raise hand button at the bottom of their screen. Otherwise I'll watch for real hands and gestures to recognize you. That sets my style. Muting when you're not speaking is recommended. That's in the script. I read that even though we've all been very good about not having background noise better than we've been about talking before we unmute. So I think it's fine if you aren't crazy about muting every time. Oh, and that's it. That is all that I have to say to open up the meeting. The, a couple of announcements. And I was hoping, well, when Tracy comes and catches up with us a little bit later, I'm expecting her to join us. She went to a MassDOT moving together. I think you all saw the hi-eve, you all saw her promotion of that. And she just had some interesting things that she's taken from that that I wanted us to hear tonight. I was chatting with Guilford a little bit earlier. Darcy, when she sent me an email that about not being able to be with us tonight suggested that we get our two cents worth in on the budget forums for, I guess there are forums that are happening, well, what is happening right now? Anyway, and I took that sort of as a, not only as a suggestion as a constituent of hers, but also maybe as chair of a committee that might have some ideas about things that we would want to take to that forum. This is something we've talked about in the past and we haven't had a really good answer for that. Our advice often is not budget directed. We have suggested things like getting somebody into the town hall who can advocate and work on transportation issues. And Guilford is suggesting that again in a slightly different form. So I think I'm going to try to figure out how to bring that into the budgeting process. I'll probably exercise Darcy on that. Also, this is actually old news and I can't remember if I brought it to the committee but our work on the Route 9 Northampton Road repaving and rejiggering it. It's not strictly repaving but it is some improvements as well. We had a bunch of ideas that we put in to them during the design process at 50%. And I had a chance to look at, and I don't know if we're all interested in it but I had a chance to look at the draft 100% drawings and all that stuff is in there. So that was, I wanted to say that out loud so Darcy could hear it and know that we do things. There's important stuff that gets done here. So Eve, do you know if Tracy, is Tracy there or is Tracy, do you know what her? She texted. Oh, she says she's joining as public and then asked to be admitted. So we need to bring her into the panel. Oh, when we see her, okay. So I'm gonna, huh, okay. So she's not showing up yet. Why don't I, I could also email her the link. Would that work? Yeah, well, she got it. She did get it. I know Amber sent it to her. Yeah, she's been having some problems but she hasn't contacted me or anything yet saying it hasn't let her in and she's not in the attendees panel. Yeah, no, I see that. So yeah, she has a couple of different email addresses. Oh, there you are, Tracy. Oh, she's still muted. Sorry. Hi Tracy, not at all. I know you've been having a busy day. I couldn't find the link. I'm sorry, I couldn't find the link. Yeah, I used my UMass email address with stuff with the town because somehow a lot of town emails to my home address never get to me. I don't know why that is. So. So what's UMass address is that? It's just tzafiannetumass.edu. Okay, not, okay. Any of the other ones, they all like resolved to the same thing. I'm not trying to have like 10 emails. And it's okay to send stuff to UMass even though this is kind of now maybe it's not really political. Well, I mean, I am sensitive to that. I just have never been able to fix that the issue with the Amherst emails. Like if Guilford was to email me, I would never get it, but it would never bounce to Guilford. And yet I send it to your personal address and stuff comes. Yeah, it's just something with the town and I don't know. So I'm just getting to the spot in the agenda when I wanted, I was wondering if you had something to tell us about the moving together from Bastio T. Oh yeah. Sounds like a fun three days for anybody who's a traffic nerd anyway. Well, I mean, so moving together, the focus of it is bicycles, pedestrians, transit, accessibility, safety. It's not as cars as much. I mean, there is stuff on signals and things. It was a good conference. We had 1,300 attendees. We had 36 sessions. One of the things I really liked was that we had, there were a lot of, I mean, one thing nice about doing a virtual conference is you get to have participants, not only from Massachusetts, but also from other states. So we had people from like seven DOTs. We had people internationally calling. We had some great keynote speakers and everybody gets to just sit at their computer, but it was good. And yeah. I mean, the secretary of transportation, she focuses, she's been talking for a few years about transportation equity. So she was part of a number of sessions on that. I assisted a session, a really great session on transit post COVID and how to keep transit going. And that was really, those were really important timely topics. And yeah. And so actually, so Ben, who's one of the Amherst planners, I guess he was hired in February, Chris would know. And I had never met him before. Chris, you're muted. Ben was hired in February, but he didn't start until June full time because he was in grad school. Okay. So Ben, he presented on the first day about the shared streets, money that Amherst got from Mass DOT and the Montague planner also presented that day. And it was a really slick video about the project. And I'm hoping to share those as soon as possible. So yeah, it was great. What would the mechanism be for sharing that, just sending a... Well, so the videos, those two videos are gonna go back to the towns. We're just doing some processing on them, like adding the Mass DOT logo and things like that. But those will be released pretty soon. In terms of all the conference sessions, those will all be released. But we're adding close captioning to all of them, which takes some time. And just for accessibility, particularly if they're gonna be posted on the Mass DOT website, they all need to be fully accessible. So that will probably take up to a month or something. Okay, so Mass DOT, it'll be in the Mass DOT website. Right, but the Amherst video will be much sooner, I think. So yeah. Good, well, thank you. Thank you for that. I don't know, did any of you guys, I mean, I sent around that little promo. Did any of you tune into any of it? Yeah. I'm just gonna ask a question, if I may. Please, Bruce. Tracy, is the Sherrod Streets, is that going toward a particular project in Amherst? You said we've gotten the Sherrod Streets grant from the state. It was a downtown grant. I mean, Chris would probably be able to speak more to it, but it was COVID-related funding. It was related mostly to outdoor dining, but it involved eliminating one turning lane on North Pleasant Street going south to Amity Street and widening the traveled way there so that we could have a bike path as well as outdoor dining. And South Pleasant Street was also adjusted. The Mass DOT grant paid for a number of things, including a couple of new bus shelters. I think there are three altogether. It paid for numerous heaters, outdoor heaters, to allow outdoor dining to go ahead this fall. And then we have some in storage that we're gonna bring out next spring. It's gonna pay for planters and just a number of different things related to adjusting the street to allow outdoor dining, but at the same time allowing or keeping the bike lane and making sure that it's safe for pedestrians. So I think we got, when did we get Guilford, 129,000 or something like that? I think that's what we got. And we're gonna apply for another one, I think. That round is coming up starting in December. December 4th is the first due date. So you have to figure out what to apply for for that. Oh, thank you. Yeah, so that's, thank you. And along those lines, sort of questions, I've got one for Guilford as well that I've just put on my notes here under announcements. We've noticed the automatic speed limit signs, the speed registering speed limit signs. I guess there are two that I know of. I don't know if there are more. One on South Pleasant Street and one on Amity. And South East Street, where is it? Where's the other one, Tracy? There's one on the UMass campus. And there's also, I mean, I'm one, It's not ours. No, I know. And there's also one on North Pleasant Street through campus. Is that one yours? Is that part of North Pleasant Street? There's two on the UMass campus then. North of, like North Amherst, there's one on North Pleasant Street. Yeah, there's one on North Pleasant Street in the vicinity of Village. Right. Village Park is on- North Village, North Village, right. One on Amity Street, and there's one on South East Street. Way down at the top. And on Amity, right. So the two that are ours anyway, and I don't know who might speak to the two that are from the university. Is there anything gonna be done to test their efficacy? I mean, they're pretty and they're gonna startle people for a while then is it just gonna become like a, how do we know that it's not gonna become just like another speed limit sign which gets ignored when we're in a hurry to get to work in the morning? Believe, if you believe all the studies that have been done by transportation people, it will be ignored. It will become white noise at some point. The issue came up the police department got a grant for some of these signs and that's where they came from. The police department are gonna actually, the three we own, which are one on North Pleasant, one on Amity, one on South East Street. Police are gonna actually calibrate them so they can actually use them for enforcement. So you can't do remote enforcement from it, but as long as there's a police officer sitting there and can see the sign and see the car and match the two together, they can write tickets. That boosts their efficacy, I imagine, then that sometimes there'll be a cop hiding behind the billboard right beyond it and sometimes not. If the planning board would approve billboards in Amherst, yes. I mean, I have to get the marker. I was just a quick thing. I thought they were meant to stop flashing when you went the speed limit. These belong to the police. One of them that I've driven by, actually below the speed limit, they're still flashing at me. They belong to the police department and they program them and they've programmed the way they wish to program them. I have ridden as fast as I can my bicycle towards it and I can't get it to flash, no matter what I do. The Amity one flashes below speed limit, but it's like close to it and it says slow down and things, but I mean, there actually have been a number of studies that show that they are effective, too. So I may be reading different journals. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, it's a long term. Yeah, I mean, even within a few years, they're still shown to be effective. I guess particularly, I think, if it's paired with enforcement, but... Yeah, I mean, and also, I mean, like on Amity, people, I mean, I live off of Amity and people are not aware of how fast they go down the road. So I think, you know, it can be a wake up call just to realize that you're going like 40 or 50 miles an hour, just you're going downhill, there's no speed limit signs there or anything. So I think that that can, I mean, nobody wants to be speeding intentionally. And every four years we have a new population anyway. Well... Right, and so it'll be new and exciting for them. Yeah. So who do we speak to in the police department if we're interested in getting more data on those in the future? Just out of curiosity, who's in charge of that? The chief? What, I mean, what data do you want to get out of it? I'm just, just, you know, I'm playing transportation nerd and I'm kind of curious as to how well, and whether in our case, they're working. The actual, the machine's actually overwrite them, overwrite what they store. So if they do any type of data collection, it's pretty much overwritten almost by the end of the day. So there's no, you'd have, we'd have to go in and probably change it a little bit, but I don't think they're actually set up or can be set up right now to actually store data and take it after a long period of time. So those are like literally digital stop signers, speed limit signs. Yeah, that's kind of too bad. Cause I mean, they're nice and they look like they'll work and they're, but as so many things in the past that have looked great and like they would work, maybe they won't. And, you know, if they do work, we'll want more and if they don't work, well, it was a good try. Well, we haven't, living on Southeast Street, anything, anything will help. Yeah, yeah. Yes, like sidewalks along the entire length. Oh, well, that's a difference. You know, the grandkids are not allowed in the front yard for, you know, our reasons. Did anybody mention the MassWorks grant yet? That I saw WWLP had a story on it for West Street and Plummer Eye Intersection. I was about to mention it. I had my hand up. Chris, oh yes, you do. I see your hand over there. I'm sorry. So the town applied for a MassWorks grant, the planning department and the DPW together. And it's really exciting. And we got a $1.5 million to redo the intersection at Pomeray Lane in 116. $1.5 million is not a lot of money, considering how much work needs to be done there. So Guilford's gonna work his magic and try to get a plan together for that much money. But we're really excited that something's finally gonna happen because I started working with Jason's skills on this project, something like 2004, 2005. And we came up with a good plan at the design review board that Guilford isn't too fond of. But anyway, Jason and the design review board and I came up with a plan for that intersection way back then. And we did try for a MassWorks grant in 2013 and didn't get it. So we finally got in it now. And we just have to figure out how to make the project work within the budget. And it's a really good thing. And we were all there to hear the governor and the lieutenant governor. And I'm not sure who Mr. Keneally is, but he was there too and he announced the awards. Are we gonna put a roundabout in there? Yes, Guilford. Boos? I was just gonna ask the same question. Yeah. We're in this dilemma of what to actually put there. They actually, I don't know, they gave us the grant but we didn't really tell them what we're gonna build. So I think the first part of the grant is engineering, right Chris? And then we have a construction phase. So we need to design and decide on the design and then we can build next, the next year. Roundabout sounds good, yeah. Yeah, roundabout might not, might be difficult to fit that. So Guilford or Chris, how much of the old CDBG plan might be implemented or pulled into that? Cause there was a full blown accessibility. It was an accessibility improvement to that intersection which did spill over a little bit and describe other components of it. Will that be pulled in at all? Are we starting from scratch? That's sure what you're referring to but there is going to be a lot of work related to making that intersection accessible because right now it doesn't have curb ramps down from sidewalks and in some places it doesn't even have sidewalks. So much of it is going to be about accessibility and getting people through that intersection on foot and on bicycle and on cars. Yeah, yeah, I know that there's been some work done on that in the past. I would be hard-pressed to say where those plans came from and where they might be if I could find them at all but it involved accessibility mostly on the northeast corner. Cool, so when does that work to design going to start? It's probably in the next few months. I don't know when we get the money. It was just announced today. So I don't know how quickly they turn around and give us some money but Guilford and his team are going to do the engineering and so I don't know what the plan is to get started there and there's probably going to be some public process and yeah, so everybody's going to have their say about it but it's great that we're finally doing something there. So if Guilford is doing it that means he'll be around about for sure. Okay. I would strongly recommend that everybody Google's mini roundabout because that would certainly fit in that space and is a widely used alternative to traffic lights. Everywhere else in the world. Yeah, and we already know of some problems near there that a roundabout might help resolve with slowing the DC sort of giving the traffic an idea as they're heading south that they shouldn't open up their jets until maybe past pot wine. So I noticed the other day that's kind of actually lead to another conversation. I'm kind of curious why the speed limit down by Hampshire College is 50 miles an hour yet North East Street is 40. Probably mostly because it can be. Well, I was hoping that North East Street would be 52 but anyway, that's a different. No, I mean that's a speed limits are a little bit magical and have to do with how much, you know how fast people want to travel in that particular road but when you've got a mile landing strip which is, you know, 60 feet wide. I'm sort of surprised that people only go 50 on it. They keep the speed limit. Yeah, so by the way, Marcus, I just just before we go on to much further I appreciate you being at the four seasons. This is a very storied, a storied location. Yeah, it's going to be a national monument scene. Aaron, are you able to see me because I've been raised. Yeah, I look at the people who are talking and not the people who are not talking. Eve. So just a very briefly just a reminder that we that that action was part of one of the subcommittee walks and I just am particularly appreciative of our, the member of that subcommittee at that time who was a PBTA driver. He had a lot of insights about sort of bus access and safety. So I would recommend referencing that briefly. I think the subcommittee reports I've seen them like they're still on the website but not on the tech page. But there are somewhere else. Yeah, so because there is another document missing. Also we spoke about I believe at the October meeting and someone went in and edited the website in July. That doesn't normally edit it. So I have to go in and do some recovery work on it. And find those documents again, honestly. No, but Amber, they're on a different page. Like I pulled them up somewhere different. I can send you a link when I. Yeah, that's odd. So yeah, let me know and I'll recover them. Okay. Thank you. That's a little surprised, but, but I guess during COVID when you're all locked down and having plenty of time to fuss with things, maybe something gets too tidied up. Hearings, if any, we don't have any. I was hoping tonight to, to reheat and get going and get going to the, to the and push across the finish line. Our bicycle and pedestrian plan. And I think that's a good idea. One of the things that, that Guilford may not have had time to do during the course of the week, even though I've been pestering him. Is, is get that so that we can pull it up and take a look at it. No. I have it. I have it here. I don't know. Do I want to. Yeah, I'm sure that we ever saw the revision after, after the PVPC did the final revision. And I know we never got the map. Well, yes. And what I, what I have to, to, to show, I mean, I have the whole thing and maybe part of our homework and getting it going again is to, to look over it quickly, and see what we've done now. And you're right, there's some edits that haven't gone in. I have the copy of those two long lists of things that we wanted to see fixed. So I don't know where all of that is in the final draft. I think it's there, but I don't know if it ever got published and sent back to us. I know there's a couple of hours left. To do for them to, to, to finish the PVPA to finish. So, so Guilford or Chris, maybe Chris, where, where is that? Where are those? I thought the text was finished. But I can ask Maureen, I can confirm that with her. She's the person who. Right. And. And also in, in working on this. We have our. Cover sheet. Where is it? That. Even I worked on. Just a letter describing. I said I would, but I think you would. Yeah, you, you, you did finally send, send the letter. And I did, I did pull in this stuff. I. Yeah, I know that was, that was a pretty hard time. For a lot of reasons. And. I haven't sent that around, but so, so what's left to do just, just I know there's some, some among us who haven't. I've been up to the elbows in it for months and months and months the way the rest of us have the, but basically PVPA put together. And we did, we did a lot of research about our existing. Pedestrian and bicycle networks in town. And put together a nice little report, which is, I, is it on the website? Yes. The draft is on the website. Okay. I don't know. For us to look at it. And I think pretty much everything is done. And so we have a lot of research that the status, the way things were two years ago are understood and described. In the report. And what's left, there's two big things that are left. One is to finish the. The wishful thinking maps. Where. At this point. I don't know. I don't know. Or what a, an ultimate. Network of bicycling and pedestrian ways might be through town. It's a, it's a, it's a dark blue. Yeah. Let's see. I'll see. I guess. I do this. Maybe, maybe it pops up. I'm still learning this now myself. The, we have. This map. This is the cover. The front page of the report. And the dark blue lines show where. Where we want the roots to go. Ultimately. The. What have I done? I've broken something here. And. We plan, we hope to sit. Together and finish. Making those blue lines. There, there are some gaps in them that are not right. There are, you know, just, just problems with it. That's got to be tidied up. And so that has to happen. And then next I wanted to talk about how we might want to publish the report. And I don't know if it's enough. I'm certainly not happy with just. Putting on the website where people might stumble across it, but rather. Have some other. Event. And I don't know what the right event would be. To, to. Sort of finalize it and maybe get some last minute input. So. I think it's going to be separate. So you don't have to go poking around on the website. But in the meantime, I'm wondering what we think. Bruce. Should there be a public hearing and discuss it. There's public input before it's finalized. What do you think. I think that would make sense. And the, um, and, and I want to point out, of course, it's not a hearing cause we don't do those. It's a, it's just something else. A listening. A listening. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure read or. A presentation. Presentation. Sounds good. The, um, Especially since. Um, I don't know that I would want there to be much editing, much. More input coming to it. Um, Cause I think we've done a good job. I think we're basically finished except for the, the final. Final. Um, Um, Would I love to have a meeting in person and just put this piece of paper in between us on the table like we did before. And put crayons on it. Um, actually. Guilford. Now that I've said it, how, how are we going to do this? How are we going to make that final edit? Uh, public input. No, no, just just our finishing the, um, I think we just need to mark it up and then we can have someone in here and make the actual changes. Would we mark up a PDF or would we mark up a, um, I mean. Well, do you, do you want. Does anybody have the ability to market online and then send it back or. Yeah, we could. Yes. So, so, but basically it'll be a share screen and you'd share the, um, you'd share the application, which would be. Adobe acrobat or something and draw the lines. Okay. Um, I think that that's a good idea. I like that. Um, And. So what kind of public presentation would we, would we want? Um, you know, in this, this time of, um, I'm realizing I hadn't thought about how complicated this question is because of our current. Situation. Um, but maybe there's experience. Chris. Milford. With a rolling stuff out publicly. And, you know, using the tools of zoom or whatever we've got. Just be a big zoom meeting, right? That are effective. Yeah. Um, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know if it's like breakout groups or something. If that's, you know, if you wanted people to work on things individually and then bring it back to the group. But I think, you know, if you're trying, are you talking about, like, is that weird referring to. Two separate things. One is, um, our sitting around the virtual table and using your magic markers to mark up a PDF to finish. The networks that we, we left. And then when that gets folded into the final draft. Um, a second event would be to present it to the public somehow or other and a big public. Zoom meeting, which would be maybe this meeting. Except advertised a little bit more broadly. We had pretty good luck getting people to come to that public forum that we had at the bank center. There was a lot of interest. So I bet there would be. Yeah. You mean the one we had? Yeah. I know there's lots of pictures of that in the report, which is kind of nice. Um, I'm sure there'd be lots of interest, but how, how to engage it. And then, you know, what does the present presentation look like? Well, because we can't do the bank center again. No, you're just going to have to do it on. Oh, Chris. Oh, I was going to say Maureen could do it. I mean, she could show her screen and present the, the. The text and then present the maps as well. But the maps would, we'd probably want the maps to be finished before we presented them. Yes, of course. And that's, that's what Kim is going to help us figure out how to finish them. Um, Okay. Um, Aaron. Bruce. Also, is it possible that. This could be online somewhere to be. Read and looked at before the meeting so people can have their questions formulated. So, um, yes, I will send it around. And I mean, for the, when we get to the point of the general public. Could they read it first before the meeting? Um, yeah, I mean, I, I imagined that publishing it on the website as, as the, I mean, it's there now as a draft. And the update could continue to be, to be there. As a draft as well. And the announcement might include a pointer to it so that people know it's there. Because, you know, people don't always dig deeply into a committee websites for stuff. What sounds like a good plan. Um, The maps aren't posted on the website. Only the text is posted as far as I know. Right. So a question for, for Gilford, I guess is, is there, um, a PDF of that map that. The two maps are actually, there's a, there's a screenshot or is a picture of. The two maps that are in the report now. I think. And it wasn't hard to read. I think Maureen got the data files. So I think we have the map. So it just matter of putting it together. So. All right. So is the, is it, is the write up Chris on the planning what page it's not on the page? Might be. I found it, but I, I went. Yeah, a circuitous route, but I'll look at the planning. Okay. So go for your thinking that Maureen got the GIS layers. I know she's got all the data. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Cause that's what we were needing for one kind of go. Yeah. We only need the one really the map. Yeah. Well, once the ones. You know, as I understand that the idea was we get the, the draft map, then we, you know, annotate what needs to change. And then it goes back to the town GIS people with those GIS layers and they revise it. Right. That does sound right. But what we're going to be marking up will probably be a, not a GIS because, because not all of us have the, not all of us have the GIS. It'll be just a PDF. So we can use our, our markup tools. That you professor types use every day. In your zoom meetings. So I guess, so Guilford, I guess we would look for that. That a PDF version of that map. And, you know, if it. Yeah. What's in the, what's in the draft report, like I say, it's not just a map, but it's a map that is. It's a map that's not read and not editable. At all. Cause the GIF. I think as opposed to GIS. It is on the transportation advisory committee webpage. The link is there. Where is it. Later. But it doesn't, it doesn't have the data file that we were interested in. Guilford. Isn't it only the draft, the early draft that's there. No, it's just a later draft. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I haven't looked at it to see if all of our notes are in the draft that's on the website. I kind of imagine, maybe all except for the very last ones are there. This is dated December of 2018 and I think that's pretty much when we stopped working with PVPC, except that they were doing a few more edits and we ever posted whatever they edited in the end. Yeah, I thought they, like I thought they did edits into January or. Yeah, we were working into it. Yeah. It's been a while it sort of sort of tapered off but I want to want to finish and roll it out the door. Okay, so that that'll be, I'll put that at the top for for next time. And we'll talk about when next time is because there's some, some events coming up that postpone meetings. I would be interested in this, you know, there are a couple of members of the planning board who joined the planning board thinking that they would have some influence over bicycle and pedestrian safety. And I think they've been disappointed that the planning board doesn't focus much on that, but they would be interested in seeing this plan here. So, okay, so we'll make sure that they're there on the invitation list directly. And also, imagine there's some other committees that we might want to, and I don't know what the status of, of the other committees are that, you know, design review board for instance might want to be. Sorry, Gilbert. The DAC might want to be, you might want to get a separate invitation. So SSE would want one that just just because a lot of the network would be used for recreation. I expect a lot of it would be used for recreation I don't know if, if somebody from the school committee would be interested because I hope that these things get used to get students to the schools, not having to take the bus. So the first order of business is to get the maps done. Right. Yes. Yes, please. And so yeah and so so really for that if we can get the PDF. And we'll try to try to figure out how to make a sort of a virtual table to put it on and crayon it, crayon on it for next time. That'll be nice. I have a question for you and Maureen as you asked Maureen about the status of it. When we gave our edits I was the one who had the most detailed like really line by line review and, and then that got incorporated into the package of edits you gave to pbpc. And then I said they just didn't have the hours to do all of the edits that we requested. And I'm wondering if there's an opportunity for us to go back in now that it's two years later and sort of refine some of those things. You mean us here in town, or yeah, probably because we don't have any more money to pay them. I mean we could have. The PC always comes around every year and asks if we want to work on technical assistance grants with them so it's possible that we could grant with them to get this thing finished. What do you think. Yeah, so well, a couple of thoughts Bernie. I was going to say, BVPC gets DLTA money there's some issue as to how much is going to be awarded with the new budget, but you know if there's given that they've already puts they've already invested some time in this would seem like a good use for DLTA money if, if that fits with the rest of stuff the town wants to do. Oh my gosh, can I add on to that then. No. Yeah, it says no, because for our prioritization plan, we would really love some technical assistance from those folks that's sort of the level that we need at this point to finish up our prioritization system. That would be a great use of technical assistance. That's a thought. Yeah. Okay well short of all of this will be will be working on that. So in the complete streets program. I mean, you can qualify like with, you can qualify for some assistance I mean we've been also working like even I have been working with the subcommittee on the prioritization plan. More generally, and it does say that once you're in tier one, you can apply to mass dot for some assistance in technical assistance funding to complete your prioritization plan. So I don't know whether we could try to tap into that money. Or how much is available. I was going for the original idea. We were trying to save him that money. We're actually, we're actually in the process of doing that. So. But, okay, what you're doing. Yeah, I mean, we're in the process of trying to get that grant. It's, we're just in the process, it's only 38,000. And you got to remember though that. Well, let me tell you a story. The downtown money we got for the great downtown improvements that you were talking about earlier the heaters and all that, where you got extra money if you're willing to put a dedicated bus lane in. So that's the level of thought that mass highway is asking for right now so if you ask for something from mass highway. They're going to want you to put in a dedicated bus, bus lane or are they going to want you to think at that level, which I think is not really what we were thinking at. So we have to be careful how much we, we how much we do the mass highway type of thought process versus the embers type thought process. So, so if we're willing to put in a bus lane, even if we can't, and won't as a result, we still get the money. I think you really have to put it ahead. Okay. Just to clarify Gilford since we were working on that prioritization plan and I think we're, if we get some relatively limited technical assistance I think we could finish it up in the subcommittee. I think that you, because your original idea was to get a grant to get a contractor to do the whole prioritization plan is that the, like are you writing a grant now or is it grant and basically substitute for the work that we've been doing. No, no, sorry, they're actually what you, the grants like a lot of what you've done already and mush it into the format that mass DOT wants to see. So they can approve us to go to phase three of the program. Okay. I think we're going to have to work with the subcommittee work with whoever the bay is that you're talking about. Yeah, that's not a big deal. We just had to get to that point. Okay. Yeah, because the other option is we were going to bring someone in. It seems like it was still, if we could take it another step or two further, it still would be that much easier to use them. Well, if I don't know Chris, do you think there's any chance of getting a small bit of money to get some technical assistance from PC to finish up what we've been doing. It's possible. I haven't seen their request come out this year so I'll have to see what they're focusing on. They focus on different areas. So I don't know what their focus is this year, but I guess I was thinking that since they had already worked on the bicycle and pedestrian plan they might be willing to just put in a little bit extra to finish it. So, so, the subcommittee met, had it has some committee had a chance to roll things along a little bit. Tracy and I have been insanely busy. Tracy and I have been insanely busy but today marks the end of, well tomorrow marks the end of the semester so things open up a little bit but we really do need, yeah. We do need some technical help to move forward so we were. If you guys don't have directions to send us we were going to sort of send out a query to people that you know in Tracy's world, as well as to our PB PC contact to see who we could get help us. If we're going to be asking for help on it which I think is a great idea. I'd like to sort of to get it back to the full committee, so that we can, you know, you know, we can touch it before it goes off. So, when do you think you might honestly Aaron part of what I, I want to get it to you guys once we have enough detail to it to be able to show you like, here are some of the choices and here's how it would work but I kind of. We kind of need technical assistance to be able to get to that step so I don't know that it's, I mean we can bring it back to you guys but I think it's actually going to be more your time is going to be more useful after the next step. Okay, well let's just think about that. So, um, and also I guess I'd be interested. Go for it is talking about that it has to be in a certain format to be submitted and approved by the state. So if there's some guidance on that. That would be helpful too. I mean I feel like, go ahead. Part you're doing now is like the front end of the plan. And then the part that they want in their format is actual projects and actual numbers and taking basically our project list and making putting that into the. We're making the algorithm and the output of the algorithm. Well, and at the subcommittee meetings right we have played with some of the scoring to see how different prior different projects would score, like does it make sense to score some projects higher some projects lower right right so that's what I want to do on a systematic basis but with some technical I want to see you guys, here's, you know, what are these different kinds of score, but that gets a, I mean there is an agenda item tonight too about the priority projects. Right, wherever that is. But I wanted to, yeah I did want to I did want to get on to the looking at our project spreadsheet I don't know feel for had a chance to pull up that. So that we could all look at it again and I noticed when I looked at it that it pretty much stops one a year ago. Yeah, hasn't been updated. Well, and so I don't know that there have been many updates because really everything has been sort of held in abeyance for Nelson's March anyway. So Tracy. I mean I just have a question I've raised it before just in terms of like I know sometimes the town manager gets emails from the public saying they're concerned about a certain intersection or you know something that they feel like needs improvement. And there's also that whatever click fix website and I know some I mean some of those are very small like here this street sign is missing, but some of those are actually bigger projects like I'm concerned about the safety in my neighborhood. And so I mean is there I mean one of my questions is like this information is coming into all these different sources is there like one comprehensive list place where all of those requests. Oh Tracy you know you know the answer to this. Well, it's all in charge. But you're saying it's like been a year but obviously like people have made requests in the last year. Oh, Aaron. Yeah, one of the reasons that I'm so anxious about getting the charts next step. Part of what we're trying to say and that is it yeah it come to us and then we will get it on this list and it's going to go into a couple of different places on the list to be considered. No, we're that's not that's not okay. And this is an immediate thing. And, and so so you know your point is well taken. I don't want to be. I don't want to be too mean but. No, but currently doesn't Guilford how is the list I always feel like it's Guilford list and then he gives us part of yeah but it's been it's been inactive because of because of the uncertainty about the role the TAC is to play in this new thing and that's that's something that I'm hoping we're getting to the bottom of well reasonably quickly. So, and the reason that I want to put this on the, on the agenda is understanding that it is not up to date, and that we are not directly a part of it. But I hope we will be. In fact, nothing that we're doing tonight really is sanctioned yet. And that's something that's been made and polite agreement that you have good idea if you keep on doing that. And that's something that we fix soon. In the meantime, to look at the stuff to get it, you know, out of the oven again put it back on top of the stove so we can begin to think about and work on it. So, there isn't like I say there's a lot of stuff missing because we have nothing since November. And even if it's been updated. I mean, even if there is, there are updates that could be made to it. It really hasn't been our purview to get them, although I'm asking I'm hopeful that Guilford can do that for us so that we can catch up with things when the time comes. I see him looking very constructively at his computer maybe. Well, Aaron, Aaron, I think the speaking cat move from you to amber. So she had the hand up a while ago and the cat in the window as well. Yeah, so on your committee website, the email address goes directly into your own inbox. So it does get filtered people do respond to that. And then anything from the town manager's office does come down to us, but just generally, since all this has started, even with C click fix. Public interaction is down regarding traveling and I just think it's because nobody is so nobody is really seeing issues like they were. But yeah, they're really, I haven't seen anything come in through that tack email to that inbox. There really have been sent from the town manager's office to Guilford, but I haven't seen anything come through my way and there really hasn't been any sort of issues that have come in through C click fix. But it's just a quiet point right now. I'm not surprised. Let me let me let Kim go Kim go first. But she has to mute area go. Yes. I know for example, I myself submitted a C click fix. I did several, at least a couple months ago, and I haven't heard anything about it at this committee. For example, that's direct knowledge of C, C click fix. Yeah, well it depends what it would be for. I mean not everything you enter gets sent up to here. And so that's one thing is there's some things which are our screeners amber and Guilford may not bring to us because it's not appropriate and that's fine. That's fine. But I know there's some other things rolling around like that actually may have gone away speed limits requests for here and there and stuff like that. So let me finish with let me finish with Kim first Tracy. Since it my particular issue and I'm just bringing this up because of the context was sidewalk issue. So, and then I will prepare kind of repair thing. Yeah. That that I like I say, if we got that. I would expect us to sort of move it right along say Guilford you take care of it. It's a sidewalk. Get it into the now. Part of what we had been doing. And I don't know how we want to roll this in the future is to say oh, there's a sidewalk that that needs capital effort to repair. This is high on the priority or this that's just shuffle this in along there that's something that I hope would help Guilford. I mean that's part of one of our roles that we're asking to do. And sort of look, I guess I'd be like reviewing the paving list and saying yes, this goes first. Tracy. So I think, I mean, I just know that in my neighborhood or, you know, other people I've talked to have contacted the town manager, for example, like they'll send an email to the town manager and mention an issue they're concerned about. And I mean, in those cases right the town manager, I mean they'll forward me the response that they've received from a town manager, or for somebody else in the town related to their concern whether it's like speeding or, you know, a certain intersection or anything like that and I mean those I've never seen anything forwarded from the town manager to the committee. And I haven't been on the committee very long and I don't know the extent to which like Guilford forward stuff to the committee either but as I've only been on the committee a few months and we weren't meeting. But since I've been on the committee I've never seen any of those kind of forwards maybe they come to you Aaron, but they come to me as a committee member. Yeah, he's pretty good about sending me when when it's when it needs to be yes Guilford you are raising your hand. So this is your third meeting you've had since you had your break. And you, this committee, this committee's life was very much in jeopardy of not because you're basically not going to be here much longer and now you're trying to save yourself. So during that year time when stuff was sent in it never left and came to you because there was no committee meetings there was no nothing going on so there were things have come in there have things that have been taken care of. I hate to say it this way. The reason there's a sign on Amity Street there wasn't planned to be a flashing driver feedback sign on Amity Street but the reason was, there was so much email going to the town manager's office that please she said just put it there instead where we're going to put it. So, that's the mode we're operating in now so once you figure out how this committee is going to help move things along that that would help us know where things are going. So that's kind of where we are now and that's kind of the way we've been operating at least since March or maybe a little since March. Yeah, which is, which is, yeah, I understand that that's why a number of us grew anxious to start getting together again and showing the flag and saying look we're here, we're here to help. The whole charge writing process is, you know, suggesting how we might fit into all of that. It's not like everything is stopped because we stopped and we appreciate the signs for instance, but yeah we'd like to get going again. Kim. Well, you know, I understand that there's a pandemic, but all of us are here ready to work. And I assumed that the work wasn't happening because you know everyone was, was, you know, trying to figure out the place, but I also, you know, I also don't understand. I mean, our work is the same. Yes, the town governance has changed, but I don't understand why the thought is that our place in that governance has changed as well. I mean, they haven't told us anything. And we haven't changed at all. And I feel like we are very functional committee. So, so I kind of don't understand that your comment, Guilford, because, because I feel like we have function very well. And, and we also have a very specific, you know, we've been like looking at these issues I thought, I thought at least part of our role was to try and help you like understand the my help guide the Meyer that is your like purview. And so, so I'm curious why you just made that comment. I'm sorry. What do you see? What do you see that makes it that way? Well, I can I can answer that comment. Yes, the council doesn't really know how they want you to be interacting with them and that's been the question. And they've been wondering how they want you to interact. They also haven't done anything really to change. Well, or to do to change how, I mean, we only offer help. I don't understand. They, they, they just have, they've been trying to figure out how to do it because they, some of them feel it's, and this is only when I'm getting gleaning from the fact I, this is what I'm gleaning from just their comments. Some of them feel that they're elected and they should have more of a say in how things are handled, and they haven't figured out how to handle that situation. And they feel like they don't have enough input to make things happen, according to their agenda and what their needs are. That's kind of the feeling I have. Hold on Christine is has our hand raised. Yeah, Christine. So I wanted to say that I think part of it is that we are now in a city form of government and city forms of government tend to have fewer committees. And so the town manager and the town council are trying to figure out how many of these committees still make sense, given the fact that the town council also has committees. And one of the town council committees is TSO town services and operations or something like that. And they seem to outreach. Yeah, outreach. All right, so they seem to have the purview of the public way under their umbrella, and they're probably wondering, well, how do, how does our work, you know, what are we going to take on there are relatively new committee by the way, they just came into being sometime during the spring I think, maybe in June or something like that when they did away with OCA and then they reorganize themselves and TSO has been around for just a few months and they're trying to figure out exactly what is their role, and they seem to be getting more and more involved in things related to the public way and they're probably saying well, you know, do we still need the advisory committee, or are we going to take over the work of that and and I think that's a conversation that's going on, kind of, in the upper levels, higher than my level, but I just wanted to kind of explain that and so you know they're trying to figure it out, but it's it's essentially like cities don't have this many committees we have 60 something committees. How are we going to sort through this and figure out the ones that we really need. You know, we're, we're three committees mushed together into one so that's that's really efficient that's so Guilford that then might have a request as as a way to advertise, and I want to sort of throw this out to the committee to get some of their ideas on it that the the projects list that we the prioritization that we working through with the three tabs if I don't know if there's a if you could give us the things that we've missed that are would are on it or would have been on it. And so that we can include that in our arguments to the TSO. So, as far as sort of becoming reconstituted or reinstituted the steps are to get through the charge that you know as much as is useful. And get, you know, Paul's sense of, you know, distance and direction, and then go to the TSO and, you know, pitch, you know, make our case, and then ultimately to the town council to make our case. So as part of making the case, I'm wondering if I think, and I'm maybe I'm suggesting that that projects list, which has all kinds of, you know, things on it like annual paving, you know, this sidewalk that multi use path, a bridge replacement. Intersections can't can you. Yes. That would be great. And there are two tabs on it. I have to learn how to do that. I did the sharing thing it's a, I'm wondering if I have enough computer horsepower to do it. It's going to be a comment. Hang on Tracy. There you go. So this is basically it. So the top two are done. Hampton Road, the two North Hampton Road and Belchartown Road are still in the planning process but the date for North Hampton Road is correct it's FY 20. FY 2022 is when it's actually going to be built. The North Pleasant and Pine Street intersection is just on hold so it says the same with someone road station road bridge is actually moving along and action will be coming up on that. Yeah, so the going back to the North Pleasant and Pine Street. Are we going to put in the dirty light. That's in that isn't that's that's what that is that's there. Okay, that's what's there. It's temporary light is what we call it here, but I like the old terminology. Okay, so the bridge is going to be updated state why I think it's plenty bridges there now we don't need more. It's a great traffic calming thing. The bridge is the bridge projects moving forward. We have a half million dollar grant. We're gonna probably reply for another million million something actually a little less than a million I guess to get to the cost. If we get that they'll replace the bridge. The two parking lots are on hold North Pleasant ped upgrades is actually moving along and probably have some construction next year. So we're going to move to the street and Pomeroy intersection. This is the one that the mass works grant was awarded for. So that's going to move up. East Pleasant, we're still kind of in the preliminary phases of East Pleasant, had had surveys and all that. UMass project through UMass is still kind of on hold because they keep tearing the place up. Yeah. So a few couple years ago we had put North Pleasant and East Pleasant as our two one. And so I'm wondering why how is it that North Pleasant has been able to move forward was there some money that was allocated or a lot of voices that came in on that one and also I'm wondering why this survey hasn't started on East Pleasant. It was funded well before that was well before you guys actually became the tack. So that project's older. East Pleasant Street, it's just a matter of time to do work and get things done as all it is but it'll probably get surveyed shortly and move a little bit faster after that. May I ask a question. Oh yes Chris. North Pleasant Street, I was, I attended a presentation while it was at the planning board meeting last night where the Newman Center presented their new building to the planning board. And the new building is at the intersection of Massachusetts Avenue and North Pleasant Street and that's your way. Their, their plan showed a roundabout at the intersection of Massachusetts Avenue and North Pleasant Street. Is that something that is a town. I see that you have that here right is that a town project or is that a UMass project. It's going to be a group project between the two of us. And if you look at the, if you look at the UMass master plan, we convinced them to put a roundabout there, instead of having the traffic signal. Okay, so that's going to be a joint project where we work on it together with UMass. Yes, and I think it's done in the next 10 years, it'll be a miracle. Does that mean that the new roundabout they're putting in was put at the wrong end of the street. No, they're, they're putting one at fairing street university. At the bottom, not the top right where this is right. So, so, so Tracy you're trying to get a word and edge wise I don't know if it's, if it's part of this, this, this piece of discussion. You've gone away Tracy. Oh, she got, she got fed up with me. Okay. Yeah, go ahead, go for it. So I mean this is the basic list. The citizen requester here but they haven't been updated for 2020. Actually, there's one on for amity street in January. And then this is this this tab here is more my tab versus the tab for the committee. It's just kind of a tracker. But this is a citizen's request. There's that many. Did you cover pot wine. I forgot to look out for pot wine. That was the other one we had put in our top tier list pot wine and West Street intersect. Yeah, this one down here. It's on the citizen requests on 30 number 31 on the list. And you said it's concept conceptual. What does that mean. Oh, I see, I see your ones here. So, so, so you're saying that North pleasant pet upgrade was our number one in 2018. East pleasant was our number one in 2019 and pot one was our number one in 2020. That's what you're saying. Yes, got it. Okay. There's a new request for speed limits on one of the Amherst wood roads I can't know which one is that that come in to you. As an example of updates that might get under this list. Not on this list if anything it'll just be in a request list and it'll kind of go in here and request. I see the, I think I should, I remember there being a wildflower specifically a wildflower request on wildflower. I don't remember I can look it up here. It's for sidewalks said in July. So Kim, in a way that this is kind of what I think that we have to offer to the one of the things one of the important thing we have to offer to the town council. Okay, but, you know, I also, you know, one of the things that worries me is, is the column G on this graph is making these issues a district issue rather than a town issue and like, I have to say that because I feel like we are not like a partisan, I don't care whose district is in, but I see that our town governance now cares about this. It makes me feel very uncomfortable actually. Yeah, and so an update that we actually talked about making but clearly haven't gotten in is that we were going to go with the location more than the district, because there is some important. Some important relationships between projects that are that are geographical, rather than political, and just happen, you know, to be in one political entity or another. I can't remember now that you've brought that up I'm trying to remember how we resolve that. Here's an example, the, the Pomeroy was a Greenwich hot wine and Mill Lane, West Street intersections, or they fall in between two different districts but they're really part of one issue. When you say South Amherst, you know you realize oh yeah these are they're connected in a way in that they're along the artery that is West Street. That's a good that's a good point. Anyway, I would also like to add that I understand why there's column G. But it makes me feel like, you know, I feel like our committee is done a great job. We're not, we're not a partisan committee. We want what's best for the town. So, anyway, so, so your point of selling ourselves to our new governance. All right, that's, that's a good okay well. We need to figure that out. And like I say, I'd make an argument for maintaining geography as part of it. Yes, Chris. Oh, I was waving to someone who was leaving I'm sorry. And I need to take my leave of the meeting I apologize for having to do this but I'll catch up with everybody the next time around. Thank you. Oh, Bernie, thank you for your, your input into the charge. I think I accepted them all just as they were. That's the first. Anybody accepting any other guy. Except for the color of the font. Thanks. Thank you. We'll see you. I'm giving myself a second appearance of this so that I can see everybody and it. So, so Guilford on this list, how much. How much have we missed. I mean, it's an interesting point that Chris makes and, and, and it really sort of feels like it is the case. That people have been hunkering down and all that stuff that was sort of, you know, bubbling and churning that quiet for a while. You know, the biggest thing. And I mean speeds are starting to go up even though traffic is down. People just don't want to abide by the rules. And that's the biggest thing people are complaining about right now. People complain. So I heard a rumor. That the town council is being asked to reduce, and this is a perennial request, I think the speed limits everywhere. It's not, it's not. It doesn't allow you to reduce speed limits everywhere. They're being asked to look at the 25 mile an hour congested rule and to vote to make any street that doesn't have a posted speed limit 25 miles an hour. Is it the facto speed limit instead of 30. That's what they're being asked to do. That's what they're saying. And we understand how that works because we've had that discussion over the years, but Is that, is that really going to happen? Are they really considering it? I think TSO will probably bring it up at some point, but TSO has many, many things that's talking about. Yeah. One of which is the townwide parking. I see. All right. So I'd like to spend a little time with this and maybe figure out how to deal with column G. And thank you for updating us on the, on the projects tab. There's no column G. Don't worry about it. I see that. But, but. I think we got to remember or make up new. Our geographical. Description that we were going to replace that with. I still, I still think that's important. Especially we can figure out how to get it out of the political realm and into the geographical into the GIS realm. So. So we, we did, you touched on, thank you for. The reviewing what's happening on North pleasant and East pleasant streets. And that, that sounds like that's creeping along as it has been forever. And so last but not least, I wanted to take another swing at the charge, which I sent around to everybody. I'm less excited about it than I was two weeks ago. Because the next step seems to be having to go through Paul. And I'm a little bit afraid of that, that we might get far enough ahead that we spend a lot of effort that has to be undone. When Paul finally figures out what it is he's going to have us do this is going back to what Gilbert was saying earlier. So I don't know if you've all had a chance to look at it. I got comments from from a bunch of you and did try to get them all folded in like I said in my letter, me and the cat trying to figure out how to get that all edited. And did you happen to send that to me too. No, I didn't Chris because you know, I just am forgetful. I'd be interested. And if you don't kick me in the shins every other week you know I'm just going to forget that you know that you even exist so so that's a good reason to come to the meetings. I will send it to you, of course. So, maybe I'll let us all cogitate on that for until next time. I don't know if that's what I'm interpreting by the nodding in the silence. The, the next thing that I wanted to. Oh, yes. I mean, if we're all concerned about what Paul's going to say, why not invite him to the committee meeting and ask him. I'm going to ask him and maybe that'll be part of it. And maybe he would accept that. The reason that I haven't yet is, as I was, you know, sitting down and trying to get the edits and talking around a sort of the buzz I got I realized that that we are getting way ahead of where they are where he is, and that's a good idea. Which, which I think is a nice segue to what we can expect in our next meetings now. The next scheduled one our next first and third is December 3rd. Oh, okay, that's that's easy. And I was going to, I wanted to do a couple of things. I have a couple of suggestions to myself that I wanted to make to you all which is that I'm hopeful that we might have a chance to take a crack at the criteria matrix which we talked about earlier. I don't know, you know, Tracy Bruce and Eve if you'll be ready to remind us or have something there to get us back up to speed on where that is. And that that might be getting a little bit ahead of, of, you know, where you want to be because you won't have had the technical support in the time to really massage things. But again, I wanted to get that back into sort of our consideration. And I don't know if you would be ready or want to consider on the third, presenting something, even if it's just the, the three slides that you had for us. At the last meeting where we talked about this one channel that was November, a year ago. And there were a bunch of edits that you were taking away to do that might might be done to tidy it up in time for us. So that was one thing I wanted to do. The others I wanted to invite Doug to come and talk to a dog slaughter to come and talk to us. If you would want that. I'm very cute to things as I want to walk that relationship again. And I'm really curious as to how the last year has affected them. What they're planning is for the next year when we're still in this situation. He said, hopefully, hoping that there'll be enough actually vaccine around in two years that we're talking about something else besides pandemics. Who is Doug slaughter. Excuse me. Who is Doug slaughter. Oh, I'm sorry, Doug slaughter is the president. President. He's a board member. He's the Amherst board member for the. He had been chair for a while. I remember. Yes. I'm sorry. I'm familiar. Yeah, so I've invited if he's not the chair, he's been that he was the chair of the primary value transportation authority. And a year ago, it's been that long. He did express interest in, you know, maintaining contact with us. I'm hopeful that we can do that now before we disappeared to the holidays and as part of generating some interesting minutes. So our next meeting is the third. And that right. Yeah. And then after that the 17th and then we probably won't meet again and then until the new year. Wow. I'll email you about whether we can meet before then. Sure. And Bruce Bruce can come in here. We can get Francis back involved. We had a number of grad students. And this was great. Could we get him back involved? That would be easy. He's still around. So. Is there anything else that anybody wants to toss on the table? Before I ask Bruce. To make a motion. Tracy. I mean, I just had a quick thing is that I'm in, you know, in terms of our relationship with the TSO and the council and so on. I mean, I was one of the people who had reached out to council members and so on when we weren't meeting because I had gotten that email from Guilford saying, well, you might not exist anymore. And when I had those conversations with, I mean, I'm, of course, I'm not part of many conversations that individual council members have and so on, but. Not a single council member that I talked to said that they wanted to get rid of the tack and most of them were shocked the attack had not met. And so it's come up at the TSO like I know Aaron you went to the TSO and even I attended some meetings. And so I think I mean what I heard from TSO is that they're really busy. I mean town services and outreach right that's not just about transportation. I mean they're doing a lot of town services. And as an advisory committee, we're just there to support the council and do the research that the council does. I mean, the council or the TSO do not really have time for and the TSO members pretty unanimously seem to feel like they do not want that responsibility where they're researching policies and so on like that. I mean, and they're focused particularly on more like day to day type services, because they also, they also review all that's the town manager's appointments and like all these other functions. But it is, I mean I would like us to go back to the TSO at some point and talk about like our relationship I mean there are some things that they're looking at, which do have, you know longer transportation implications, you know for transportation in town. Like I noticed like today actually the TSO is meeting at 430. And one of the things on their agenda was like a townwide parking policy. I mean I don't know whether that's just like, you know something kind of on the day to day services side in terms of like these are meters and you know but if it's like, I mean the parking could have like some bigger ramifications and I know for example Guilford has brought us parking related topics before such as when the town had wanted parking on like the major streets, like 24-7, right, that you can't park on, you know the streets that don't, they don't have- South pleasant, West street. Yeah, I mean a whole bunch of them. So I mean the other thing too is that while we weren't meeting like the town adopted the council adopted that public ways policy. It's a pretty comprehensive policy. And you know I don't know if there's room, I mean there's nothing mentioned in the public ways policy now for both like short term changes to the public way or longer term changes or like permanent road and sidewalk closures and so on where there's any consulting with committees. That's an important omission I guess that there are no committee and I don't know that it was deliberate but I think it's, I mean like what Guilford is saying is that they don't know, and Chris they don't know what to do with the committees. I think it's only 53 Chris, it's not quite 60 but you know what to do with the dozens of committees that we have and so part of our work and your suggestion to go to the TSO is to explain to them and it's kind of a weird role for an advisory committee to be in which is to advise the people that are supposed to be advising on how they might get advice from us rather than the other way around but that's that's that is a an irony which which keeps me up at night, and I'm happy to be tackling it. Sounds like an open ended charge to me right. Well, so, and this this is. Yeah, exactly. And so this is why I want to engage Paul. And this is why, you know, the idea is to sort of continue rolling our projects along as a demonstration of what we might be able to do. I don't think this is futile, I think this is all very useful and I might even suggest that it is at the town council's peril to put us aside permanently. That would not go over well in many quarters and just Tracy one of the things that that that I'm working around is that there are two counselors who have been active. They know me about, you know, make this go away. They've not been effective in convincing any of their colleagues as far as I can tell, but I know the sentiment is there. Sort of beyond head scratching what do we do with them, but really that you know they're there. The sense is is that we're imposing, we're wanting to take away some of their authority some of their responsibility, which is not the case at all. I think that's part of part of what a part of, you know, how we've been trying to frame the discussion and process. So yes thank you it's a good it's a good idea it's well well take it and you bet we'll be in front of the TSO. I don't know if we will be there I don't know I'd love to bring all of us to it. Instead of just, you know you and me. I think that would be pretty impressive. Yes, please. So, I wanted to respond to something Tracy said, which I think, you know, back in the spring when everything was shut down and Paul was trying to figure out well, what can we let go ahead what, what do we absolutely need to go ahead. We made the decision that only permit granting boards and committees would be meeting for a certain period of time and that was because of town resources being pretty limited and the IT department was very stretched thin trying to jump up and you know these meetings. So that's that was the reason why you initially, you know weren't allowed to meet for several months. So I just wanted to share that it wasn't that people back then thought that you were not useful it was that they really were focusing on only the committees and boards that were permit granting. Of course, I mean but I think that even you know one some of the other. I mean, I understand that completely. And it's amazing what the town has done it actually provides so much citizen access, like the fact that people can sit at home and like, you know, be part of any meeting which you could never you used to have to go to town hall and sit there for I mean it is incredible and all the meetings are recorded and I think thank you Amber. But the questions came up just about you know when some of the other committees. So we're meeting the ones that aren't permitting. You know climate action had been meeting for like quite a few months and I mean I think, you know some honor, you know our email exchanges with each other like the dog park committee, I mean there were a number of committees meeting and so it was just kind of, I mean, of course I'm like, you know, obsessed with transportation because I do it professionally and but I mean it just seemed like we were also important and as Kim said like we've been here the whole time. So, yeah, I mean I know the point is well taken is that doing permits and so that we put it in and since then I mean clearly, we're being supported there's Gilbert there's Chris they're all helping us out. They're helping us out for our thing and for you know we understand that and appreciate that that that's a real reason and Amber. Thank you Amber. And she's not in her car. Yeah. Yeah, I miss the drum set already. Yes, so that this is, yeah this is where we're at. I think it'll be okay we're doing okay. Yes, Kim. I make a motion that we are done for tonight. Thank you Kim. Thank you all. We'll see you in a couple of weeks. Further notes on on any.