 Simulation. Woo! Here we go. Mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm. Boom. What's up everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host, Alan Sake. I'm very excited to be talking about holding space. We have Ori Shapiro joining us on the show. Thank you. I'm nervous. We got you, my brother. I'm so pumped for this. Thanks. So excited for those that don't know Ori's background. Ori Shapiro is a personal growth coach leading one-on-one support of sessions and holding space with clients for growth, healing, and conscious evolution. He's also exploring sitting with bigger groups of 5 to 15 people as well. You can find the links in the bio below to oriholdingspace.com as well as his Facebook page. Ori, let's start things off with one of our favorite questions. What are your thoughts on the direction of our world? Oh my gosh. Better and better. Like, it feels like, it feels kind of surreal how that question has transformed for me. Like, my experience of it these days is almost like the choices I make shift me into the better timeline, if you will. Tell us more about that. Like, my life just feels more and more clean. Like, more and more pristine, you know. Like, I've exercised like discernment, you know, and my relationships and my alignment to my purpose and all these things. And now like, you know, like maybe I'll have like some bad conversation with someone and then that night I might have a bad dream. And that'll just remind me that those exist. So it feels like you can, you can really garden your life. Like you can really garden your consciousness and that feels internal and external somehow. If that makes sense. So we can get to a state of our own deepest alignment with our divine purpose. And the more that we get in that direction, the more that it's reflected in our day to day moment to moment. And we author our own positive or negative world view at every moment as well. Yes. And then choosing the positive has made a big difference. Seeing the good has made a big difference. Yeah. And also facing the negative, just like meeting it. Meeting it. Yeah. How do you do that? For me, it was grieving. For me, it was journaling and grieving. This takes us directly into the journey. Let's do it. Okay. Yeah. For me, it was journaling and grieving. Where were you born? I was born in Mountain View. In Mountain View. Okay. And you spent most of your life growing up here in the Bay Area. That's right. Okay. And who were you growing up, even pre-journaling and grieving? Who were you growing up? Who was I? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I was just like a nice chubby kid. And I had a lot of sides and I could connect with a lot of people. You know, like I could be athletic and play some basketball and be cool. And then also like inside I was like a really sensitive, softie. Yeah. Yeah. Come on. Don't laugh. Laughing in the best way possible because I feel orry on that. It feels good that you laugh. Yeah. Like me, I felt similarly in some ways. Please keep going. Yeah. Going about what? So yeah, you had this like ability to tap into like basketball and hang with that crowd and be soft and hang with other crowds so you could like ebb and flow between different groups. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so interesting. I'm just remembering this now, but like, you know, I could see like a grandma on the street and just like the nicest, most sensitive guy. And it was so authentic. It was who I was. And then like in elementary school, I could be like with my friends like peeing on the slide and like doing all these bad things. So it was interesting. Yeah. Damn. So that is, you're, I think you're unpacking for many people what the dichotomy between that, between their two like most light youthful sides and most dark youthful sides was because so many young people did those like kind of like darker things like, but also did the light things and to juxtapose those, I think is beautiful. Yeah. It makes me think of like, you could say our nature or like our soul or like our intention for incarnating maybe. And then also juxtapose with the fields, the fields of consciousness, the fields of the people around us that just it's in the air. And to act that way. So that's why people will go to an ashram or to a cave and realize something. But I think part of my path has been about moving within the fields and like leveling up the fields to be more spiritually realized. Yeah. Okay. So right before we get there, let's hit on what was going on in your life around the time that you started journaling and grieving. What triggered that? Yeah. Well, I guess you could say I had like a spiritual awakening toward the end of being a college basketball player at Foothill College. Is that the the answer? It's like a sister school of the answer. Cool. And so I was a basketball player there and then but I had I had this spiritual awakening toward the end of all of that. And it was pretty cool. And then after basketball and then I kind of I thought that was that. I thought it was a cool experience. What was the experience? Yeah. Well, I mean so many tangents, right? But but it's a good story. Yes, please. Trying to think of what's relevant in the story. So I guess you could call it a heart opening. I was like picking up my friend and teammate to go to school and I was miserable. And me and my friend were riding the bench. We weren't we weren't getting playing time on this team. And we were kind of he was like the seed of my spirituality. He was like this good kid from Brazil. And so we had that. But so I picked him up and we're going to school and I was miserable. And I was particularly miserable. And there was this thing in LA. It wasn't on my conscious mind. But there was this event in LA that he was friends with the guy leading it. And he was going to go and I thought it sounded so cool. But we had our last basketball game of the season. And so that's just not really an option to miss. And you're riding the bench. But we're riding the bench. And so so I'm picking my friend up and I'm miserable like for whatever reason. Like I was just like man I am so not for going to school right now and going to classes and basketball. And then I was like particularly miserable. You know it was like pretty unbearable. And that's miserable to the point of being dangerous. No I wouldn't say so. But so yeah so I'm getting ready to pick him up. And then as I'm being miserable this thought crosses my mind like the thought of the event in LA. And like the transmission of Kyle Cease who was leading it on his Facebook about the event. Stop it it was a Kyle Cease event. Oh dope. And so but your friend knew about the. My friend knew Kyle Cease. Oh cool. My friend got inspired. He immigrated from Brazil and he knew Kyle Cease. So yeah basically my friend got inspired by Kyle Cease videos. And he made his own like putting images and music behind him riffing. Yeah. And then it went viral. It became Kyle Cease's most popular video. So then they became friends and Kyle Cease was like hey like you and a friend can come to this $400 ticket event for free. Oh this is game over. You got it. So my friend is like sending me his Facebook transmission about the event. He's like you're unlimited. We're here to play. And I was like whoa like I haven't heard this before. But I kind of brushed it off because I was just like you can't miss a college basketball game in the last one too. And age is 21. You're 21-ish. He was probably like 20 and I was like 22. 22, okay. Yeah. So I'm picking my friend up. I'm miserable. And then among the misery that thought crosses my mind about the event. You know I was like oh but that event you know like and then I was like but I can't go. And as soon as I had that thought then there was this shift where I just realized that I could go. Yeah. I just realized that I could go. And when that happened I was decided I was going to go. And then. Change your life trajectory with that moment. Yeah. I love stuff like that. We live for stuff like that. That's beautiful. That moment and you the choice that you made. Yeah. That altered your trajectory. It's massive. And if we can if other young people that are listening right now have that decision that is like should I go to the thing that I'm just trudging. Or if there's that moment that I could go and do something that could potentially just change my life trajectory forever. Explore that option. Pick that option. See what it does for your life. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And this felt orchestrated. This felt like there was a timing to it. It's like I was ready for it or something. But I had that shift and then I became like completely different state of being. Like I was just like so light in the heaviness. And you were light in the heaviness after the cease event or before ruin there. The moment when I was miserable the moment I realized I could go to that event. Somehow then I just transformed and and as I was waiting for my friend I was just like in I was just like a new man I was light I was surrendered like in the best way. Nice. I was like I don't know what I'm going to say to my coach. You know but there was just this feeling like I remember standing up on campus. I was just like so light like I was standing there and I was just like letting myself like slouch if you will. You know everything's tense and you're at school and you're on the basketball but I was just like like slouching and I was just like I was like very open to environment and I felt so light and I was like I don't know what I'm going to say to my coach but I was like absolutely courageous and it was like effortless. It was like wait a minute like if you just like yells at me I'm just I care about the team you know I care about my coach I care about everything my my heart's open but like I'm just going to take it I'm just going to respond and it was just this shift it was just this different way of being and that's that whole day was pretty magical you know there were like four or five girls on campus that I was attracted to that I thought were hot and I ran into all of them like kind of magically and so it was almost like my heart was communicating on the kids the whole thing was crazy man yeah so that was my you could say that was my first spiritual awakening. You went to campus that day but did you still go to the event in LA too? Yep. You did. Yeah a couple weeks later. Okay a couple weeks later you guys went okay okay so then so it was the moment actually in the car where you went from being miserable to knowing that you had authorship of making a decision that you could go that then opens you up to that state of being that day at the for the for both the coach your coach your peers the girls all that stuff that opened up for you and then later you went with your friend a couple weeks later to the cease event yeah and then what did you take from that that also like the event was incredible you could say I found that state again and then after basketball as a whole which was a few weeks following that then basically over the course of the next couple years I opened up to this grief I didn't even know I had I was like you could say in my cells and it was like deep and transformative and healing and I would journal and I would grieve about stuff that happened in that day that seems small but whatever my I had this ancient well of grief that would get attributed to stuff that was happening and so I would I would process this grief and then over the course of the next couple years I kind of leveled up my system to be able to hold that state of consciousness from that awakening. Call it an ancient well. Yeah. Damn. I mean yeah people have asked me where the grief is from I mean honestly who knows maybe it's from our collective maybe it's from you know my father passed away when I was seven maybe it's from that because I remember kind of holding and not crying when everyone else was during that and then I also have like my grandpa's seven siblings were killed but in the Holocaust and so there's that ancestry thing. Yeah there's an energy there obviously that you just inherit somehow just terrible grief that you don't know where it comes from. I'm trying to I'm trying to get this. Yes. I understand and it's an energy just as much as if it's an idea or an abundance of joy you don't know why and it's similar. You know you're suffering the grief of your grandfather who lost seven siblings from the Holocaust it still just carries on it's interesting fascinating what are we going to do about it. Science is now more and more pointing to the what ancient wisdom used to just carry with them as an essence but now science is like no there is literally epigenetics that we on through trans generations that are like you know my grandfather siblings died and seven died in the Holocaust. I'm carrying some of that. I need to connect to that spiritually and heal so that I don't have these potential subconscious moments that occur unconscious moments that occur in my life. Yeah. Yeah. These karmic propensities karmic propensities. Damn. Yeah. I don't know if it has any connection to what we're talking about but I heard a story where there was a native tribe of indigenous peoples in the Everglades that had committed suicide in a specific area and later in life hundreds of years later there was a plane crash in which the equivalent number of natives who committed suicide were also in this plane crash in this specific area. I don't know where that none came from. I don't know if it has any connection to the story but it's you know the suggesting these souls that committed suicide also happened to be souls that ended up on this plane destined for catastrophe. That's the interconnectedness like that. Karmic propensity to go ahead teach us more about that. I don't know. It's just a word that came through. Okay. So this ancient well that your grief so you have to what is the process for you of when you find yourself journaling about something that day or something that's ancient in your family's trauma as well? You're journaling about maybe one of those things or both of those things every day for how many minutes, for how long? No. So most of the journaling was about the present. Okay. But this ancient grief would get attributed to the present or journaling about what was real for me, journaling about what I cared about the most about that day and just getting in touch with that and opening and going deep would kind of like would move the grief like and it was it felt so healing. Yeah. Yeah. If that makes sense. What would it tell us about what it would do with the feeling of the grief? Because if you're also journaling about things that went if you're in the present and there's something that's really ecstatic you journal about that as well. It's funny because less so for yeah less so. I mean it just felt so like like meaty like to do this grieving it felt so real it felt so it just felt like the most powerful thing I could possibly do the before and after was like being impaired like being a drunk person and then after I would feel like the saint like I would feel like hypersensitive and like just like kind of like that awakening I described. So this grieving process was just I knew how powerful it was and it was interesting because I developed health issues I developed hypertension and a fatty liver and I became like a hardcore pacondriac for like a year and I was better in because I you could say I overdid this grieving because I kind of became addicted to it because it felt so. It sounds like it sounds like there's some sort of a satisfaction in there you know. Yeah. So anyway but what it did do is when I did journal about positive stuff it felt like it was much more had much more traction you know like some spiritual people or personal growth people talk about like positive thinking or law of attraction and for me doing this remember I talked about facing the darkness earlier like actually facing our like that stuff is the real like that will take you somewhere. Yeah. And like post grieving if I like did some of that positive thinking or like just like envision stuff I'm excited about it just felt like way more real it felt like more like I could believe in it. Okay so the recommendation then is that tell me if this is right that then when we encounter something that may feel like it makes us uneasy in some way that if we take a moment to tune into ourselves and think and feel where is that making me feel uneasy why is it making me feel uneasy how does it actually feel within me can I write about it if I write about it what does that do how do I feel after I write about it. Yeah. That kind of a process. Exactly. Exactly man. Yeah I would my journaling quickly kind of became like very distilled like I became like better and better at finding what was alive and just getting in touch with like what I actually cared about you know and so I wasn't just like it wasn't like a very mental journal it was like a very felt journal and so sometimes over the course of half an hour I might write four lines but feel transformed but so yeah that was what went down for me. And then what was your father passed on your seven you said yeah yeah what was the issue with with your father. He got like this rare cancer when I was like seven months old. Oh seven months. And then died when I was seven. Oh okay wow. Haha. But yeah that I mean that makes significant impact on our lives as well. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah for sure. And then you grew up with mom then. Yes. Yeah. Grew up with mom. Okay. And she was really stressed about that being a single mother and stuff and so I think. With brothers two and sisters or. I had two older brothers. Two older brothers. And so I think I was three of you with one mom. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That reminds us of Ronnie. So yeah continue. Yeah I mean there's so much to talk about and I don't know where to start. Okay so when post journaling this is when you're 22 ish. Yes. Okay. Okay. Then what starts coming up for you at that point you're like I'm so deeply connecting to the present and how I feel most alive writing about it. What's going what's happening in your life at that point. Where is your life going after that. So after about a year of being better in I landed my dream job. As what's called a Z health trainer and it's like this neuro health and performance coach and you know I took these like expensive certifications in Arizona and Berkeley. With some of some of what I thought was the best stuff out there on health and performance just really cool stuff about like vision training and like inner ear drills which is like our balance system and proprioceptive drills which is like a fancy word for joint mobility and breathing training and just like this holistic system with nutrition stuff and so I became the Z health trainer and I and I was my dream job that was just Jim and Berkeley where they had the courses and then I interned there and then I became a trainer there for two years and then toward the end of that and that was perfect because it was like this environment for me to grow you know you could say that grieving was like this healing but coupled with growth and then this gym was like perfect because I could develop my body with all these tools and then also I could interact with clients where I didn't even know but I was already starting to hold space if you will and I would go home and I would journal about what happened with my co-workers and with my clients and I would grieve and I would get insight and wisdom and so I was really using this time and I was transforming all the time I was showing up the next day a little bit different and so after two years of that I got the gut feeling to leave because it started to feel contracting to whatever was emerging through me this expansive accelerated healing and growth process so that feeling that was coming through you the expansive process that was coming through you where did that end up taking you post the training that you were doing yeah so I left and I left this job I didn't have a backup plan but I was becoming more and more spiritually awake more in touch with myself more you know beginning to kind of just flower my consciousness my energy field I was becoming adding depth to who I was and I was showing up and I could sense that I was bringing more I was bringing more than just this kind of Z health knowledge when I was with clients I had all this love I felt so sensitive I just wanted to be sensitive to them I wanted to care for them beyond gym stuff you know so and then you could say that this life coaching because I was so dedicated to my own healing with it started out pouring can I have a question what would happen when you would start caring for people and they would be like what the fuck are you doing caring for me I'm not here for you to care for me I'm here to be like a client of yours in the gym setting I would just be sensitive to that I would just shift and I would just like that by caring for people I mean like becoming people I mean like whatever is needed I love you if you're feeling like that I love that like I love that a lot of people get spooked on you know altruism and just genuine good people they don't get it people are such miserable pricks so it's throws people off I'm sure yeah that's well said it's actually quite often it happens when people come to California and they're like what is this like care thing that you that you do like you come from the east coast to the west coast and sometimes I have love in my heart there's love in people's hearts on the east coast you know we do things there is of course of course there is yeah I love the California chill I'm all over yeah so then you would be with someone even distancing themselves from the initial care and then you would just be with where you were at with that you'd say I love that yeah yeah okay I have more to ask you about that later okay let's resume us where we were at okay so so I left and I left this job because I sensed that I was bringing more than just the the health skill set and and I didn't know what I was gonna but there was this out there was this outpouring like in addition to at the gym just in my life it felt like because I was supporting myself with so much dedication I began like it's the only thing I wanted to do with people around me you know I became really sensitive to to everyone around me as if they were part of my healing and growth process and so so I was kind of like this organic life coach I was kind of like that already and then six months into my leap well the cool thing I'll just share is things showed up things showed up to kind of support my leap I'll tell you the two biggest ones one was a living situation that was just really nice and cheap and one was a life coach who was like the real deal and he gave me six months of coaching for free wow if you know his name is Dan Spinner and he's just like this 70 year old master of life maybe someone to have on the show as well yeah he also happens to be Mikey Siegels from Consciousness Hacking his coach so with that coach and the living situation it's like I was free falling after this leap but things were kind of just showing up at the right time and then eventually I made this post on Facebook I was like hey I'm looking to offer like holding space which just means like being present with someone being present with what's what's there and supporting them and so I made a post I was like I'm looking to do this as a service and there's a lot of energy behind it too I was like I think I can do this really well like if you're ready like I think you'll transform and then what happened was I had 30 sessions within a month damn yeah with Facebook friends like 90 minutes 90 minutes yeah and I'm sorry what is it what do you do I sit with them and get questions like that so what is this and I basically just wing it like it feels like I had become support that had become very authentic and so I would just wing it and it would look different whether we go into emotions and I'm just like give them some like solid love to some inner child that had been suppressed like some emotional pain or maybe what they need is like hey you're a king like and just like empower them and so it could look different ways but most of these sessions these 30 sessions felt powerful they felt like they were working and so eventually I started getting paid and now I've been doing that professionally for a year make that money yes yeah okay so damn what a crazy trajectory to get to where you're at today okay so and it actually deeply explains a lot of yeah of who you've become so 30 of them in a month you got the good housing situation, got the good life coach and then just continue doing it for a year holding space for people and you would get everything from digging into the and how would yeah so you're not even doing the digging you're holding the space and then whatever's coming up for them you're with that and with that so they may wander themselves into the most deepest emotional traumas from their youth or transgenerationally or they may wander themselves into needing to be the queen or the king and you support wherever they are at yeah we can't do this live because my brother told me not to talk about my mother and father on social media so I can't you know I'd love to do this and talk about this relationship I had with my parents but my brother said don't so I can't but there is it it does go back there is as much as I want to say oh I've gotten over a lot of it I know it's still there it existed it comes out on my ability to interact on certain things what are your thoughts about someone that is trying to suppress like his brother is trying to suppress him from being able to talk about his parents this is what we're doing we're already doing it he's gonna be pissed he's gonna be pissed yeah talking about yeah and it's not I'm not bad mouthing my parents I love them dearly I learned to love I learned about love through loving my parents and that I did it myself beautiful as well I'm aware it's still it's hard it does affect people it is hard it takes years of shadow work and self work and just self I want to beat this I don't want to have this hate in my heart I don't want this hate so I want to fix it and be a better person it feels really good to have you share I'm glad that we're holding space I want to take full advantage of the show and understand it you said earlier well what do we do we're holding space now and I'm like oh okay alright let me get involved in the show and hold space so great Ori this is fantastic alright thanks Ron yeah and I apologize earlier we should also share the story when I came in before we even met I asked Ori who do you think would win in a scrap between you and I it's just a joke that I do often to people and throw some off and in this case Ori didn't quite know me it might have been but I'm glad that we're holding space now and I sincerely didn't mean to challenge you or anybody that I say that to and it's all in good fun you'd kick my ass Ori who would win in a scrap you would kick my ass I don't know if I have that in me man yeah I understand that I understand that now I'm sorry it was beautiful reflecting on you connecting with what you learned love through your loving your mom and dad and also just your parents I know what you're talking about and also just Jono stop we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor I'll kill the show and shut it off no it's not necessary I was just saying there are situations where families around other families even mine, yours, other families that it's important to be able to talk about the things that we find most important to dig down and understand and sometimes it can feel hard when someone within my family is trying to maybe stop me from doing that and so this happens actually quite frequently around the world and so to be able to open up vulnerability to open up to what lies that are the deepest parts of our psyche is some of the most things that make us most human yes well said well said brother that's why you hold space the deepest parts of our psyche are what makes us most human and so holding space gets people to wander into those areas with you yes I really appreciate the stuff that comes through you I feel like you are in many ways some that I feel so deeply like live through you viscerally because I also feel like as a nerve ending of our collective consciousness you are doing work that I really resonate with so thanks man walk us through some of the you gave us some of the examples you are holding space what do people do right away when they are just like what is your most common and your most outlier man it's interesting because the truth is sitting with someone one on one feels like I'm still doing it but I'm starting to get that feeling I got at the gym where I know there is something next at least in addition and so like when you ask me that question it's like not even it's not what's been cooking recently it's not been in the forefront of my mind I still have that ability I mean it actually feels like so after a session supporting someone there's a transformation and then leaving that I feel transformed you know after you heal your nervous system you open to yourself it feels like your own healing work and so I would just walk light post session and that process hasn't stopped it almost feels like each session gets integrated into my energy field and then wherever I go it's like that's like their accolades like these energetic accolades that that has happened and yeah an energetic accolade that you now have embodied into your essence because you've experienced that exactly and so now it might look a lot different than before like maybe now I really can just like sit quietly and like people can just like they can just very naturally heal themselves maybe and I'm just sitting here like you could say that Ron began to do that we do we can give ourselves a therapy along the way when we talk to people and just that exchange healing oneself I got nothing you have to do it you have to do whatever it takes and if you need to and if you feel you want to sit down with somebody that you can genuinely trust do whatever it takes all it took me was about 36 years of awareness and about 40,000 dollars worth of cocaine and I'm a miracle of modern science oh my gosh thanks for saying my pleasure say no to drugs kids the other ways there sure are I'm sure there are I'm sure there is I like how real it just got well I'm not I don't really have anything to hide in that sense you know I've been using drugs since I was 12 years old when I started with marijuana you know and that's about where it usually comes knocking on the doors of our children I have a 11 or 13 year old niece that I'm concerned with I'd like to stare them away from that for as long as possible including alcohol you know so you know I understand there are other ways but there's also don't go telling a young girl who's just been you know who lived a life being raped by her horny brothers and don't tell her don't try to psychoanalyze therapy is not going to fucking work years of therapy talk there's drugs out there for that that's very painful there's a reason why these drugs are among us they also kill us you know when the heroin people overdose that's what they ultimately want so you know there's 8 billion people on the planet and there are so many ways to die and there's some people that just don't fear that and if they want to go out they want to go out feeling good it's a euphoric bliss and then it's over so I'm grateful for every I'm grateful I'm a survivor but I have no regrets going out of my drug use I'm glad that I'm not a big heroin user found it boring the whole opioid thing crystal meth I don't want to stay up for a week Ram loves where he goes during sleep and I do sleep is a wonderful thing perhaps a brief exercise in death if we really become self aware of who we are on a daily basis Monday through Friday you will see a pattern of personalities if you will a nicely glued schizophrenia of sorts that's just evenly out it's even and ride those those people on the brain of this machine that shares Ron Vargas Ron Vargas' brain let's go into Ron Vargas' brain who we are who we can be in our maximum potential who else I can invite in you know people there's lots of that just don't want to come in right now but I could be a vehicle for beautiful strong-willed grateful people so grateful to be in the situation that I have established in this body and I don't I'm enjoying who this is today to be able to talk about these things I'm picturing my mom and my girlfriend like piss that runs taking out my show no, no, no this is what the show is all about and you know from watching the show that I don't I've never talked as much as I do in the programs as I am now but what your energy it's you, I blame you don't say I want to hog the show there's an energy here that allowed me to do that and that's through you this guy's a professional because you're here Ron went into the deepest he's gone about his own self on the show so that's how I think it's a good way to frame it yeah, I feel comfortable in talking about things we were talking about earlier I won't bring it up but you know I stand firm on that as well it wasn't suppression and these are sometimes the things that happen when you hold space like, yeah, yeah you weren't expecting it but there you go you got a waterfall what's your mom and sister's name at least we should say hi to them yeah, let's say hello big shout out to Orri's mom thanks for watching the show we can say Morley and Asya Morley and Asya Morley and Asya thanks for watching I'll be quiet now we can talk more about so let's break down the most commons and the outliers of what gets explored when you hold space when you say that the thing that comes to mind is like but wait, now I'm interested in working with groups and events yeah that's what came through and have fun with it I'm seeing a fun engagement this is kind of fun yes but were you curious about examples of one-on-one sessions and what they were like let's do that and then we'll walk our way into the larger size groups and events as well it really is always different I feel that way but it's sitting with a person and being sensitive to what wants to come through actually, sometimes it would get on me I've had some really cool clients who have really developed themselves like some people on your show and you guys sometimes the authentic flow of it is where they start supporting me and it just feels true and it's kind of crazy to say but I'm not yeah the thing that comes to mind is this guy Dore who lives at the Kohak house the conscious hacking house and like half our sessions would be him supporting me in a sense so we talked about energetic accolades so he has these accolades of this really smart successful older guy in the world who's like done big business things and like I think he went to the Israeli army and like so there was something there for me to integrate and that's usually the case with two human beings we're gonna pick up some accolades along the way it's not about it's not like I'm just like this absolute coach I hope that kinda answers what really happens on the program is that the person like shines at their best teaching about what they're caring about and inspiring other people but also we get to learn so much we level up by listening to them and get further on our synthesis so that does really resonate so then give us the most common thing that people go to one of some of the outliers yeah well so do you want more water by the way um yeah that'd be great thank you yeah okay yeah so give us common and outliers so I would say thanks Ron thank you brother so I would say the most common thing is like this kind of meeting the darkness thing because that's what I really like it just feels healing and real and so that can be grief like with me or like shame and that might take like 40 minutes to gain the comfort or maybe less nowadays um but so maybe the most common is like some sort of emotional opening and like processing and loving you know like us just holding that and caring and that feels good I think that can really there's nothing like emotions you know in terms of feeling transformed and really good but um sometimes it can be just playful you know like um I've had you know there's this one guy who was like you know we were in his like business office and I was like why are you scared to be intense like just intuitively I knew that was there's like a lion but like he wasn't expressing it and so he got up and he pushed me over the chair I fell to the ground and there was a space there that that could happen you know we put um so you know whether the however the being wants to expand whether they want some energies want to express you know there was a woman whose brothers whose brother was killed by the Cuban government like decades ago and she has this like rage like this absolute anger and um what I got and now she has all these health issues and anxiety but what I got her to do in a session was to find those energies feel them with me like get to it go there and then share what the message of them is so for example like and and you can get a really clean like expression of the message right because maybe like maybe like on the surface because I journaled so much I got good at like distilling like the heart messages like the essence the undistorted messages of emotions and energies so maybe before doing that distillation it might be like oh yeah what I want to say to the Cuban government is like fuck you but um but maybe after it's like you're not helping and then like some really like juicy like gays that just like shares them and then um so um undistorted messages of emotion yeah yeah yeah um do you write poetry what's that Ron do you write poetry do you know you do the journal you talking about I've written poetry uh sporadically more of a journal or I do like writing poetry but I don't do it that much what does it what's the difference between um the two the examples that you just gave there sometimes it may be like we go with this initial gut instinct of doing something like raging is that an undistorted message of emotion or if you were to hold space with me and we were to get to that point you know what is it exactly where did that come from be there with it and then come again it would be less distorted what do you mean I don't know so like sometimes that initial outburst that we have of emotion if you would hold space with us like I'm curious what emotion you have right now what's the energy because I feel something I feel something kind of dense I feel that more than the words are speaking because I'm so sensitive and so I'm feeling curious about it yeah I don't know what the denseness is it's definitely felt like uh reconnecting to all that is several times throughout the show to kind of yeah to kind of put myself into the oneness several times throughout the show because that's how I feel when I'm around you I'm able to tap into that deeper more frequent so I wonder what the denseness is to then should I try to intuitively read you sure yeah it's very deep like maybe like a hurt this is just something a story but like I have this image of like a kid who didn't get what he wants I barely know myself I'm trying to learn about myself every single day so this may have something to do with it I don't know yeah sometimes we can say things like that like something that's deep something that hurts something that is like a kid not getting what they want and it can be like pretty applicable to like a lot of people right yeah yeah yeah yeah I appreciate you going there a little with me it's a fun thing like to be able to practice like you said that intuiting through eye gazing is that a major component of it that you stay eye to eye locked with the person you're holding space with yeah just to try to like just to try to read like what their eyes are saying there have been some sessions where like the whole thing or at least like the culmination is like this reading of like all these feelings and who knows like how spot on like you said like we don't even know what we are like we just have these energies and you could say they're collective energies but um it can be really healing to be seen in these energies you know yeah should we keep going sure well sure you mean keep going in the unpacking of what we were doing between us on like what we thought was dense or where we were just at with eye contact and what you do in the sessions which one of those the first the first one was dense okay interesting yeah I yeah I would like to as well let's see where it goes so what if you allow yourself to go back to that sense of being heavy with me okay alright let's do it wow it already doesn't feel as good I don't know why got it I like feeling like a lot mmm well dude you're talking to the heaviness king I've spent a lot of time surrendering to heaviness if you want it let's surrender to heaviness okay alright let's do it okay you're brazing yeah yeah man yeah okay alright where do we go from here okay so I'll just share what I'm noticing which is that I really feel my body in the chair right now like I was not feeling my body in the chair that much earlier I was feeling kind of more like light and now I feel yeah okay alright so so what's it like to start let yourself feel heavy it feels like I'm still clinging to the lightness like I'm still clinging to feeling light would it be weird if you allowed yourself to get all emotional on your show no I'm super down for that yeah we've done it before but yeah mmm just allowing the energy to take you okay what do you do when you go into the denseness when you go into that where do you go how do you do that I just maintain my breathing and give up everything else okay so yeah like almost like you let yourself drown like you're nothing but a breath this emotion to have its way with you looking good keep it up it's really healthy to grieve like this how does it feel to be seen by seen in this I feel like it's important so there's not a lot of room in our culture for this socially correct yeah the first things that come up when I go to that density when I'm in that state of breath and density is like you know who was I growing up you know what inputs that I taken from my family and my environment from the genetics as well as from the environment to become who I am now and then what do I not know about myself regarding that all those stimuli that I don't know about right and if I learn about them that they can help unleash me at my fullest better yes do you feel this heaviness at all being digested by us you feel like there's yeah yeah as we talk about it it is yeah so I live for that so creating the space that makes it easy for people to be with you in the process of digesting density yeah I feel like we were just tapping in we were just tapping in yeah but thank you for going there because that can be hard to do for some people but I know you worked on yourself a lot so and we can also revisit this another time down the line where we just start the episode by diving into density with maybe Ron yeah yeah something like that that could be interesting alright let's visit the we did a bit on the one on one side what about when it happens one to many and also at events as well yeah so this holding space it feels like the coolest thing about it is that I'm like a vessel for it more than anything else not a coach I can be those expressions this more faceless vessel that can become what's needed there's a sense of being with someone on one the vessel kept developing people talk about kundalini awakenings I would have these energetic openings and I would have all this breath holding exercises that would just happen like it's almost like my body knew its own yoga that was like emerging through me and this quote unquote vessel it means form to be a better and better space holder and so then there was a sense being one on one with someone is beautiful but I can feel that I can hold more there's this capacity here to hold more and so I had two cool 15 person sessions I did one at a church in palo Alto and I did one at the consciousness hacking house for my birthday and they were both really awesome and that was a fun exploration to hold maybe some heaviness with a group and maybe maybe lead some connection games and things like that and so that's one thing that's one thing that's also on the frontier just like being with groups and playing with that sometimes I my dream is just to just to be there and just hold space without even talking and like people don't even have to look at me like they can just like remember that party at the end of Awaken Future Summit I remember just sitting on the floor and kind of meditating but when I meditate it's not like okay boundary like let me like attune to this no it's like it's like really just like opening to the space and like holding it so so in terms of then what's next from the one on one thing it's working with groups and also just like holding events if you will just like being with the whole thing and just like interacting with it as if it were a session which is kind of funny to say but I love that it's a big organism and the different components of the organism in many ways are the humans that are in attendance and the way that they're interfacing with each other the relationships between them so when you are there like at Awaken Future it's like behind the front desk tables and you're standing there all like I'm here and like that's what you give off to people it's like I'm here and then they'll see that and they have the potential to engage with you and at that point then for wherever they need wherever they're at and it varies between the people that come up to you that you can then engage them and hold space for them at an event and help the trajectory of that component of the organism I love that that's great there's so much good with that like that why don't we have more at events it's kind of like the space holders of events I love that so that's one of the next orieholdingspace.com availability so Ori is going to put that's what's been marinating that container which I think is going to be showing up more in our future it's going to be more of a real thing that's not under the radar I think it'll be less under the radar more people will know about this yeah, yeah, like a holding space should the holding space area be very easily visible so I will know exactly where it is at an event or do you want it to be baked baked more less these are the questions we need to be asking yeah, I'm glad you enjoyed that question so teach us conspicuous or inconspicuous which one is better for speaking of which, I have a question you should solicit your service to law enforcement to interrogate suspected criminals instead of this is awful by the way, this suggestion it's totally devil's advocate but you know, you could interrogate these people by holding space and they would just willfully start from the bottom where it all comes from and then of course I ended up stabbing her and they would confess to the crime no? could it work for that? I would just be interested to evolve I don't want to interrogate anyone I would just be like I would just want to raise the vibe you do, that's what I'm saying there's a vibe there that, you know allows me to surrender whereas maybe the old method is this hardcore interrogation in that setting, maybe there's space for someone to come in that is better at holding space to engage with someone that may have committed a crime and to raise the consciousness in that environment to where the person feels like they actually want to work through what happened however, what they've done is going to send them to jail for the rest of their life they're going to be a little apt to be a liar there doesn't necessarily have to there's all kinds of factors so then let's talk about this on one side we have the conspicuous placement of the holding space people at an event so they're very visible on the other side we have I don't know what it would look like if it was inconspicuous just some person hanging out and being present tell us about this which one do you think is good that's a great question so I feel like up until now I've been embodying inconspicuous a lot I've been going to all kinds of events and exploring this I drove to LA to go to documentaries screening and support their cause but also explore this I went to like a march for the climate change and just different things so up until now it's been inconspicuous but I do think it's of value to have a place in the world when you're doing this kind of work and for people's conscious minds to know about it some people that really inspire me are these like spiritual heavyweights like this guy's sad guru who has you know him so if you go spiritual heavyweights there's these enlightened sages out like Alma the hugging saint do you know about her what's her name again AMMA yeah I would call her a heavyweight spiritual heavyweights interesting so you better believe if you're in AMMA or sad guru's like quote unquote field like there's something there like it means something yeah but they would be conspicuously doing it they have a place in the world like an official place they're not under their radar about what they're doing totally when you're in their field it's evident that there is something happening between them and the other people that are in that field that is about raising the consciousness and why would we ever carry ourselves in a way that isn't that because everywhere I go now I'm trying to carry the most light with me all the time and it emerges out of all of the actions today for an hour and a half of working out laying out in the grass talking to people on the run all the stuff that I was doing that people were lit up in their engagements with me about everything in life and it was just so fun how we can do like why would we ever not do that we are a direct mirror our worldview and our mindset directly mirrors into civilization our agitated, upset, pissed off we're going to encounter that essence in the exterior world and if we are happy, light all that stuff we're going to encounter and spread that the butterfly effect law of attraction so many of these ways of putting it why would we ever do the other one the other one it doesn't even make we want to train ourselves to like you said, Sadguru Amma that spiritual heavyweight but we also want to not take on so much from other people that we don't have our own that it can off ground ourselves sometimes with the spiritual heavyweights it's really hard to like off ground them but on ground them yeah yeah I'm glad that you that you've been even traveling as well to events to explore what it looks like to be doing this and you said you were doing it you were doing it inconspicuously yeah okay you were doing it in like a more hidden way just present but not announcing it holding space sign yeah exactly you were doing that in a way confused too inconspicuously okay and you'd say that some of the spiritual heavyweights do it conspicuously um yeah and just in general like in our culture and our society whoever is like leading like my experience is anywhere you go the space is being held it's like there's a consciousness to that place and usually culturally like it's like the speaker or like the person running the thing but my experience is that that doesn't have to be the case that it can be found around the event as well with the non-speakers yeah that's great yeah so it's like maybe a person on stage is leading a talk or something and then in a sense they're holding space because their consciousness everyone in the room is kind of like absorbing it like everyone swimming in their space to an extent yes and I think that like you said I think this can be done conspicuously and inconspicuously probably yeah did we show the image at least throughout of ori holding space it was an image there yeah it's all good no it's all good we can just I'm sorry did you tell me there was an image there and I totally forgot about it no it's all good just find it show it now well we can't just not it's just in the ori shapira folder we'll bring it up it's awful I don't feel bad no it's cool it's the same thing that's visible where did you put it clips but it's a still image yeah in just the ori shapira folder there were three that's awful no it's all good the images are literally the ones that are on the website too and that's again for everyone that's oriholdingspace.com but yeah Ron these are the images yeah they're nice it's what ori does in the yeah and here's some cool testimonials I'm sorry ori I didn't know where was my head at there was assets and we didn't run them during the show it's all good that's why we got them now I'm losing my I'm losing my mind I'm afraid no worries when we have you back we can also bring on other leaders in the space and that'll be really interesting yeah do a little round table on holding space and spiritual development, conscious evolution yeah yeah yeah yeah cool do you feel like we covered yeah this feels good yeah okay cool let's ask you a couple quick questions on the way out do you think that we come from anywhere before birth into the earth suits and then do you think we go somewhere after death I think I'm living in a reality where that is likely and maybe all perspectives can be true okay okay maybe could potentially be countered if like are we that's the whole thing of like is there a cow that's currently orbiting around the sun like near the orbit of mercury or whatever right am I a butterfly dreaming of being a man yeah so the whole like can everything be true thing is like so what you just offered it feels true like based on what I've been seeing and doing in the past year or whatever but if you asked me that five years ago it would have felt completely untrue okay so the idea is that all potential out of the possibility space is so infinite that there is a cow orbiting a star by mercury somewhere is that the I don't know about that but it feels like it feels like somehow like I have shifted into a reality that's different like where what you offered feels like it's true and maybe there's other people watching this or in the world where they think that's not true and maybe that is not true and will continue to be not true in their like timeline if you will now are all possible expressions of the simulation including the cow one there maybe not I'm not sure and then what's the most controversial belief you hold hmm that's a good one it's a controversial belief I hold probably like something related to like magic being real and like kind of these more out there concept that we kind of teetered probably something like that in general I'm not big on beliefs you know I'm just like I live with a lot of I don't know yeah and then do you think we're alone in the cosmos no at the least we're not alone if you factor like other dimensions like interdimensions and stuff but what are in those other dimensions you can I mean you could call them aliens you call them beings you call them energy forms you can call them spirits and I haven't even done that much exploring relative to other people but it does feel like there's something there do you think we're in a simulation I think we're in something interesting I think we're in something like intelligent and like fascinating and like mysterious so pick your word you know yeah yeah recently I've I really like the word God yeah you know I'm not religious but me too yeah I do too I really like it too it does a good job at summarizing all that is well God is just dog spelled backwards I just want to remind you you know this is true last question what is the most beautiful thing in the world something about sharing love like sharing love with other eyeballs or like other aware entities like there's something there and like in our simulation sometimes there can be really elegant ways that that unfolds but just that like that sense of yeah something something about sharing love with other consciousnesses hmm hmm yeah it's interesting how ori described it as sharing love with other consciousnesses and other people that have you said love just say love hmm and you say sharing love with other consciousnesses yeah love in its truest form is the beauty in it all you know the most beautiful thing that love like last night I was talking and it was there was a girl there was a few moments in the conversation where we had that connection of love you know that's sincere in the eyes you see it best but you know and it was nobody it was love good stuff right and just but it only happened a few moments in the overall maybe 10 12 minute conversation got it ori yeah thank you thank you man so nice to be on here thank you wow it's been so nice thanks Alan good work brother we love you very much likewise thank you everyone for tuning in we greatly appreciate it we would love to hear your thoughts in the comments below on the episode get talking more about holding space with your friends co-workers people online on social media let's get holding more space around the world let's do this everyone woo and also check out the links in the bio oriholdingspace.com also ori's facebook page check those out you shout out to Ron Vagus for producing and directing thank you very much Ronnie and also support the artists the entrepreneurs people in your communities that are building great things support them support simulation if you believe in us our links are below the patreons down there the paypal is down there also our link to our merch store you can design merch you can get paid and you can spread thought provoking messaging around the world that's ubi check that link down there and also build the future manifest your dreams into the world we love you very much thank you for tuning in and we will see you soon peace woo