 Well, welcome everyone. Thank you everybody for coming to the middle sex select board meeting on Tuesday April 2nd recording in progress Okay, so we're gonna welcome our guests. We have Steve from our FEMA World and we have folks over here Hello everybody We don't need your name unless you're gonna speak so if you're interested in speaking you can just raise your hand and I Will recognize you and ask you for your name Let's see we need to approve the minutes of March 19th regular meeting And the March 26th Special meeting so you are not here for the second meeting So let's do this separately. Who wants to make a motion for approving the minutes for March 19th? I'll do that. All right. Thank you Vic. Is there a second? Zara second set. All right Any discussion? All right hearing none all those in favor of approving the minutes of March 19th Say aye. I Okay, and then March 26th that had Vic Liz and Peter Peter were you there online, right? Yeah. Yeah, okay Is there a motion for approving those minutes? I make a motion to Okay, okay Peter first dick second All those in favor of the March 26th special meeting minutes say aye. I Actually, you don't down vote if you're not there, but that's okay Okay Now we're on to improving the agenda for tonight's meeting April 2nd Action likely is there a motion? I Will make motion to approve the agenda as sits. Okay. I'll second it. Alrighty. Are there any amendments there to the agenda? the only amendment is a annual several months all the ways management district grant from the Green Mountain for the part I'm sorry for green up day. Okay. That's not a big deal. It's just usually I sign it About that Okay, I Will amend my motion to include the annual green up day grant. Perfect. Is there a second so noted and I'll Alrighty in Vic seconds already. So all those in favor of today's agenda with the Amendment say aye. I Alrighty we're right on schedule. In fact, we're ahead of schedule We're on to awarding bids to contractors whose proposals for permanent work on nine flood related repair projects were Unsealed and read at the March 26th special meeting action likely That would be you Steve and Vic, right? Yeah, I think that is have the floor So The town did receive 14 bids. There was one bit that was not read During that meeting because they didn't do any math. They had some unit prices, but that's all they had So there was 13 bids that that we did review Ten of the contractors bid all nine projects So we reviewed all the bids We did end up After reviewing some bids rejected two of the bids because of numerous math errors and omissions in the bid So then we we went to the scoring Process that we're provided with a sheet from FEMA to score on various items of the thing the largest Largest item on the things back on it on it is the Is low bid itself? others vary from from Past experience workload of contractors And that type of thing So we did have a high score one high score of 95 and low scores 75 Our total estimate for the project was two million three hundred and four nine oh eight The bids varied a few of them or above that but there was quite a few of them below that amount So Vic as the road commissioner and Eric as the road foreman myself as the project manager Reviewing the bids and going through the scoring process We're recommending to the select board that we accept an award online contracts to dirt tech company LLC in the amount of one million nine hundred and twelve thousand four hundred and forty dollars Did you repeat that number? One million nine hundred and twelve thousand four hundred and forty to one contractor dirt tech dirt tech You got their address Good scoring. She's on there. We're out of there. What town they were out of one? No cold Yeah, what is there? They're out of cold chest. Where do you see that the scoring the scoring sheet? Sarah passed off of the scoring sheet shows it's slightly different number One nine one eight one nine one eight one ninety The scoring sheet shows what I have a total of one One million nine hundred and eighteen thousand. Oh, yeah, there was a math error one math error in there Okay, so that number that you just gave is the correct number number. Yes, okay? Okay, so Are there questions from the board for Vic and Steve? Yeah, I Curious about the capacity of the contractor awarding all nine or all nine projects I think 13 roads nine projects is that correct? Yeah They have they have the capacity to do all of the time Actually, there were several contractors that had the capacity to do all nine. That's a pretty ambitious project, but Steve Steve had a conversation with dirt tech They assured them that assured us that they have the Manpower and the machinery to do that And are these The price that they give you is that Like an estimate or not? The project estimates that we got They're their contract a big contract this for the items that we had had listed That there's a chance that some of these projects items may change a little bit And in which case we'll do a change order to subtract or add to their contract, but they're If they did it exactly like we put the bits together That's exactly what they would get for money Yes, it's unit price Now that Steve Between the time he got back from Florida and the time that we sent the bid sent the proposal out I Went through all the Well through all his numbers and came up And checked all his numbers and if there was anything there was one One you had to do with length of ditch Cubic yards. Yeah, you had to change That I remember anyway, so they've been check, you know We went over them again or went over them again It's a key word there's estimate Have have we ever worked with dirt tech? No, I have not Have we done any? I mean, are we planning to like just check references from other towns? I have checked some I will be checking more, but we will be talking Okay, hi Good I When I was my prior former life work to him. Thanks. Sorry I'm just wondering if that's a normal thing that if we have nine jobs that one company gets it Or do you usually like break it up to two or three? Is that normal you prefer to work with one company? Well, yeah, I mean those ten ten contractors bid all nine jobs, so It's That's fine. I mean, I I think it's an easier thing than having nine different contractors Yes I was just looking at the numbers and I Think I have you know some Concerns around allotting all roads to one contractor. I know they say they can do it you Know if you look at the numbers from A bid stance with the highest scoring on low the low bid of contractors that we know They're in the area You know, there's a hundred and hundred plus thousand dollar difference between I think dirt tech is Low bid on let's see. It's so the Bulldog Culver Hill government Hill project, which is 24-6 24-7, which is South Bear swamp 24-8, which is Macy Road and 24-9 for Wood Road and then Looking at the other projects the 24-1, which is East Hill 24-2, which is Center Road Hutchins would come in Low bid there and 24-5 They would be low bid and some of these are significant like $30,000 difference on a you know Yeah, it's probably a 20% difference if you look at it that way and then J. McDonald For 24-3 and 24-4 I think for me just the thought of the time it's going to take and awarding all of them to one contractor and looking at the fact that there's a savings that to the town potentially I Think I would be in favor of splitting this up to some extent. It's my after my review Sarah agrees with that Sarah I Guess my question would be when I'm thinking about the cost. I mean I in theory that makes sense You know, I you know, I understand that They might be overestimating their capacity or but in terms of our process with FEMA and Our scoring rubric here It does look like dirt tech comes out quite high compared to everyone else McDonald seems pretty good at 80 I guess My question would be is there a Reason that it would be disadvantageous for us to go with in terms of this whole FEMA business to go with a Lower scoring person a lower scoring group Is your suggestion that like Dirt tech takes X number of their lowest bids and J. A. McDonald for example takes Their lower bids and say I'm not sure how they're gonna react to that Right, that was that was my other question like they're bidding like that in nine projects. There was a couple of contractors have been Just a few projects, but all of these contractors if you Don't know how they'd react to that. I just don't know. Yeah Yeah, I guess when I look at it each each bid is Individual so they're not yeah, we're not getting a volume discount here. I guess is the way I'm looking at this Each each project is bid individually and each project is awarded individually a Way that we did this it's my understanding I've ever heard of uneven bidding uneven bidding is when you You bid Certain class or a certain site at a lower bid And then because for some reason you think that you can Make money on that or maybe cut it somehow And and and you actually make your money on the ones that you bid higher on It's what the state calls uneven bidding Do you see that in some of this good? I don't know. I wasn't there when they were bidding, but you could yeah Yeah, I mean you can't you know to me. I understand Randy what you're saying, but for us to go out and cherry-picked jobs. I Especially when you've got that many guys bidding on all of them And I think it's going to be a FEMA nightmare To keep track of all that because you get you would have I think three different two or three different track contractors with different pricing on different Sections of it. I mean, I think I think those guys are pretty much you know pretty uniform all the way through Yeah, on all their sites We did have some that were changed their bids on The amount of money for each item They would change it. It might like pipe might be Just for example, $40 on one site, but be a $80 on another site so Why? Why yeah Because we're doing that what maybe so why could they yeah, why would I what would they yeah because they can maybe they think that Maybe they think that they keep that There's more Of that item on one job and so if they bid it up We're down. They're going to make more money Peter what are your thoughts? That's I mean my initial thought in thinking about this two weeks ago was The idea of having two or three contractors at least to And dividing them up based on you know based on their criteria their overall scoring criteria not just necessarily price But I understand if I was a if I was a contractor Bidding on these nine jobs. I would hope that I would get all my jobs, you know And there are some economies in terms of moving equipment and material and all that if you If you've got all your equipment in town, it's one thing if you're bringing it back and forth to do different jobs It's a different thing now. That's really their problem not our problem But anything we can do to make these jobs go smoother. I Think it's worth doing and have it not drive not drive our staff people accounting people crazy and Also not get female rather But you know, I the truth of the matter is I could I could go either way I I think this is a a really good process You know, this is certainly the most advanced bid process and the most money we've ever We've ever dealt with and I and I think we've done a really good job of Doing this. I mean we got nobody can say we didn't get a bunch of good bits. We did Any more to add Zara or Randy? I just want to say if you if you do take Like you said, you wanted to maybe you take two or three contractors and go those little beds if you start Picking little bits, then you're gonna have to do it totally throughout so you might end up with six contractors No, I'm not suggesting lower beds. I'm considering Lower sports lower beds Necessarily might be, you know, might be that it's a lower bed, but not so lower bed scores Yeah, and you're ready that that was going to be my point is that these contractors are contractor one two and three on the scoring sheet so Except there's a couple of threes. Yeah, you know, I Again, I think it's it's you know, some of it is It's just concern about the capacity and You know summers are short So that's you know, I came into this review process thinking like that that it would be best to split The projects up based on based on that Did Kingsbury drop out? Pardon? Did Kingsbury drop out? dear It was Eliminated because of their omissions and math error. Oh also in the The bids that correct me if I'm wrong Steve did each contractor Listed their time of doing it This particular contract was Contractor was going to start It was in May and go through to the October We set forth but some of them are going to start in June. I think that if you had three four Three or four or up to six different Like Steve said you might have to if you're going to do that you have to do it all the way You might have more than three but how you coordinate You know how they're working there, you know, I guess if somebody worked on Woods Road and stayed right on it but you know if you get on Center Road or East Hill Road, and they're they're traveling by each other So they don't get in each other's way Yes, sir They're tech indicated that we're gonna we're gonna use the parameters of What we set forth of May 1st to October 15th. I think it was Eric were you a part of this process and you feel so the same yet I mean, I guess from my position If as a select board member, I think the role of this Group was to come up with a decision And so I would go with a recommendation based on the fact that they have looked at them They've assessed it and they've determined that this one company will fit the bill for everything And I completely understand but I also think it's probably more work to go through and sort of re-evaluate these in a Looking in the lens of hiring three people and not knowing what those The repercussions of doing that could be Randy's concerns aren't taken lightly. We've spent many hours The three of us Going through these and going through them again and going through them again so Your concerns are valid. I would say I'm gonna have to defer to the experts You know if we had put in the plan that we wanted to have three contractors from the beginning To see how they worked to create that competition then I get it But if we're at the point now where we want to make the bid I'm ready to move. Okay any other comments, okay, so is there a motion to accept dirt tech as the winning Contractor for the teamwork. Can I make that motion? I think you could but maybe it would be better Okay, sorry Okay, I think you should be clear that it's for all projects and yes for all projects online projects Yes for all of the nine projects on the 13 roads. Yes Okay, is there a second? Okay, okay So all those in favor of assigning dirt tech as the Contractor for all of the nine projects say I I Opposed Randy opposes The motion passes and dirt tech can be contacted Thank you guys for the work. Yeah, thank you guys Okay So we are next on to approving the fiscal year 25 TA 60 annual financial plan for highways Action possible action likely. What what is this the TA 60 annual financial plan? Here we go Okay, is there anything that we need to know about this? Yeah How much Maybe it was COVID Do we all sign All right, so is there a motion to approve the fiscal year 25 TA 60 annual financial plan for highways Okay, Randy makes that motion is there a second Okay, Vic seconds it all those in favor Have said a motion I okay, and then we all sign it right sir Highway report update on town road conditions, etc. Action possible Nothing really to say other than things are starting to dry out. Yeah time for the snow. I know are we Nervous about this big storm nervous. No, okay. Are we sad about it? Yes, okay Okay, are there any questions from the board about the roads or that season or anything like that The public have any questions or okay How about the equipment everything's going smoothly with that nothing's changed. Okay, great Good. Alrighty Well, we're right on schedule 525 appointing town voters. Oh here. We are the mud road subcommittee Okay, and this subcommittee would research the cost of road repairs potential grant funding paving costs, etc And Sarah has a nice list of eager volunteers Okay Wow Wow Okay, and I'm on that list Okay, Paul Richard Cowles he just gave a lot last minute. Yeah We have About Dexter look favorite just said I would it would be my pleasure to serve Some other way Let's see. Who else we have sidestecks her. Okay, Sandy LeVee Sandra LeVee who is right here these she can we can call her on the carpet Jessica Churchill Millard. I don't really know her that well. She says she's interested in joining the road She's not an engineer, but she can do Marion mullet Interested as well John Ray Hill Zach Smith No, he was on one of our last meetings when we were talking about it. Oh, that's right So we have a lot of people No, I don't think there's any reason why no one why yes Peter So Before we do this, are we thinking we want as many people as possible? Ten people five people. I don't know how many people we want and the other question is I Mean generally We understand what they think they're going to do but but we want to give them some guidelines Are we expecting them to give us a report? Is there a deadline for the report? Etc. Etc But what I would say is we know that When you have a giant group like this some will Peter out after a meeting or two So I think that we invite everybody who wants to come to be on the committee I would suggest that they do make it sort of a formal committee and have like a chair and Have an agenda so that they're not wasting their time And that they create that when they Have their first meeting Yes I think they should yeah, so if it's warned, I think they have to Don't if it's a part if it's an ad hoc committee Then no for example Steve Eric and Vic were an ad hoc. Yeah, but if it's a subcommittee of the select board Yes, they have to warn their meetings and post-agendas So yes the answer is yes I So I think sorry you should I talk about what I have started or what we sure So we did find that there are 75 million dollars worth of earmarked money the deadline to Apply to apply is Monday the 8th with what's going on with the eclipse I would recommend that whatever we send in and I for what I did was I went online And I just printed out all the questions that they're asking So I can give that to all the committee members once we we form that They're pretty they're generally fairly easy questions except of course how much money you want and What's going to go into the road? So I would need People with more expertise But I'd like to get that in by Sunday the 7th because I don't know what's going to go on with Cell towers or Wi-Fi or whatever on the 8th Can I just make a recommendation? Yeah, so if you're gonna do that Sarah Yeah, the board should probably appoint you just give you the authority to submit that application. Yes, I think so Yeah, I don't think you're gonna get this meeting together by by Sunday I would what what kind of questions So I printed out all the questions. It's probably better really what we need to know is How many miles of road and a guesstimate of the cost for that because again This is just kind of a getting on the radar and then they would invite us to give them more information if it sounds of interest to Sanders are you doing to all four of them or all three of them? Yeah, it was well was under Bernie Sanders Okay, because I think she has some children up there in the same I think it's all the same because it's all these Agricultural rural development commerce energy and water financial services open security interior. Yeah. Yeah That come out of the Sun and so wasn't it what when they announced it on the RIT TV it was it was welching and That and Sanders I think they all have something they all have something to do with it But yeah, and I just read today that they had another 28 million On top of the 75 but they had what but was for 20 specific projects So anyway, this will get us on the radar and probably wouldn't be this year But it'll get us on the radar so that in years future We might be able to get millions of dollars from the federal government for our roads I think I Had a recent interaction with them all three and they they said that Just go through one of them. Just go through one of them. Okay, but I don't know that may not be that you can check The other thing too is I mean and if that you know doesn't work this year, they may be interested they may be more interested in like a District potential application, you know As opposed to one small town because all the towns have this problem actually they had they have it It's that they they have state government regional government local government or a nonprofit organization So, okay, I went under local you went under local. Yeah, that would be us And if you know, I can get with Vic with just some guests at all. Okay, I'm guesstimates. I can go I can go forward It's not that difficult so maybe Sarah if you want to reach out to everybody who Who responded and Since our you're on the board, maybe you could I'd be happy to pull together the first meeting and figure that whole thing out and Sort of be the point of contact for the select board for it. That would be great Okay, cool That's awesome. Do you want to? Give Sarah the authority to apply for that. Yes Does anyone want to make a motion that she applies for she puts in the application for The first application I was namely naming it Middlesex mud road mitigation It was the Bernie Sanders office. I don't have it's like a congressional. It's called a congressional Allocation or something like that. Yeah, it's like an earmark kind of thing But there is a formal name for a congressional something Okay, so that's great. Thank you to all the people who We didn't move it right who wants to move that Sarah Sarah that Zara Okay, Peter moves it and big seconds the czar is going to put in the preliminary application is All those in favor Okay, the eyes have it Welcome, thank you guys Alrighty the mud roads we're gonna be like What do they call it like? When when people are Like the flagship mud road subcommittee and all the other towns are going to follow in our It's not flagship. What is it? Following your ruts I mean if it's a worn meeting people can come right and they can talk if they need they just wouldn't have I don't know what you'll be voting on but Okay So, oh right on schedule 535 joint meeting with the Middlesex Planning Commission action possible Appointing a town voter to fill a vacancy on the planning commission until March 25th 2025 town meeting action likely And reappointing Larry Rooney and Sandy Levine to serve on the development review board action like Sandy Would you like to join us? I'll come up here. I'm Sandy Levine and the chair of the Planning Commission It's good to to see you all I'm here to just provide an update on what we've been doing I've tried to come and see you all about every quarter missed some time and they'll recently but I'll be Fairly quick. We did I'll start with roads because you all were just talking about roads In response to some of the discussion that's been on from porch forum the Planning Commission Looked a little bit at roads invited folks to come to two of our meetings to talk about roads Is is there a role for the Planning Commission to play in this? And we haven't I'm not really sure there is but there could be which was one of the reasons I was interested in joining the subcommittee because I see there could be a good coordination with what the Planning Commission could do and With what the the subcommittee could do So we're interested in continuing to To to be involved and if there is a role for the Planning Commission going forward We might be able to one possibility as we could apply for a planning grant to think about Funding for a five-year plan for our roads for town Or you know steps along the way could tie into Language with in our town planned and outreach that we could do to residents about what we really want from our roads So there there could be an interplay there I Vision this is working through the subcommittee and reporting back to the Planning Commission If there's something specific we can the Planning Commission can do we could step up and do that We also in the process of doing that a number of residents in town and reached out to the Planning Commission and shared their thoughts And ideas and I would share those with the subcommittee as well But on the projects that we've been working on we middle sex was chosen to be part of State effort looking at how we can help build more Housing in all communities the state developed a homes for all toolkit middle sex is featured in there as sort of a Example of a rural community building smaller accessory dwelling unit and how you can do that what are some of some of the things to think about and Getting that done we hope in the Future to have our own there was a lot of interest in this project to the Planning Commission We hope to have our own Meeting of the folks who were interested in the project to come and maybe get some septic end You know septic engineer some state officials to come and talk to folks about what? Homeowners or developers would need to do to move projects like that along Another project we're working on is looking at walking paths and safety near Rumney school That was also something that some folks have talked about on front porch forum We hope to get we've gathered some initial ideas and we hope to do sort of a brainstorming Storming session with neighbors invite the neighbors who live in a long shady real To come to a meeting hopefully at Rumney school and at our main meeting See if there are neighbors who are Interested in helping with this Interested in allowing folks to create a path along their property obviously this can't happen without the Consent of the landowners, but it's a start to see if there's something we can do with that Next is the Planning Commission submitted some written comments to the state on the Worcester range state lands management plan That's the all the state lands from Like the Notch area all the way up to Mount Elmore the Worcester range a lot of that's in middle sex we submitted comments on on the their planning for that and There's been you know some some interest in that will review the plan when it's finalized But because we had just been as part of another project. We were looking at natural resources and wildlife resources in middle sex We wanted to share what the information we had in in town with with state officials on that Hopefully this summer we're going to try to work with Camp Mead and the Regional Planning Commission to see if we can Do sort of a temporary demonstration project to slow traffic down a little bit through the village here by Camp Mead There is a provision V-trans has a provision for doing that There's a lot of hoops to jump through but we might be able to to do that You know so I've set up some temporary parking places narrow the roads a little bit with planters or plants Do a speed test see how that would would work. It's a basically a way without You know paintings without doing permanent structures temporary structures that can try and facilitate slowing traffic down and creating paths for walking and a crosswalk And then coming up in the fall We're hoping to be able to apply for a municipal planning grant We'll keep our eyes out for what that could be for it could be for road work different road issues I don't know if there's additional work planning work for the town hall. That was the last planning grant We had was for that We also have sort of a project that's kind of ready to go to for the next step in our wildlife and conservation planning to create the next Portion for our town plan update for that we'll be talking about that later in the summer and fall and Coming up in April. I believe together with the Energy fair which will be at Romney school Some members of the Planning Commission are working with some experts to have a workshop or Table and information on how to help keep bears out of trash cans and compost because that's a continuing problem throughout Middle-Sex throughout Vermont that there is some resources on that we wanted to try and share that with folks in town and Then we're hoping in the spring to talk again with the folks who are planning to develop the former Colby farm across the interstate on off of Center Road See what their plans are and there are plans for Possibly water Infrastructure that could that could be helpful to the village as well I know they've talked with the select board as well But that's something the Planning Commission has also been really very interested in so we're interested to hear what what's happened with that and We have Route to sort of pedestrian making the route to section through here better for bicycles and Pedestrians that take your life in your hands when you try to walk along here That's ongoing at some point the state will be doing some work on this road other than just paving We might be able to get some work tied into that whether it's sidewalks or other work The the plans are already there. We've done the scoping study. We've we've got you know initial costs An alternative would be and to work with the Regional Planning Commission to break that project down Into smaller parts that we could maybe implement every year or so Funding is an issue with that. There's a 20% match, which is pretty high So but it's something that we could could look into doing it would be the town Pretty much sort of taking over a part of that they would have to pay for the construction But you would get the grant money for that so Nothing final on there. We've done all the planning work for it. It's in place. It's ready to go. It needs funding So that's those where those projects are happy to Wow answer any questions or I have a question about the this whole accessory dwelling piece so It's been a long time since I've looked at our zoning regs But like a house like mine like when we bought it It's like oh you can't build another house on this because you only have you know three acres or something like that Is the accessory dwelling different and that like allows for that or how it is? I do I do not have our zoning regulations committed to memory Yeah, but for the most part when we when we updated the most recent zoning we specifically Expanded the availability of what's called accessory dwelling units. There's a size limitation It has to be like under 1,100 or 1,200 square feet, which is still pretty big Yeah, you know, I think it used to be like 600 square feet really small So it's you know, it's a small house size and pretty much any house can or any Property that has a house on it can also have an accessory dwelling unit. It has to there the limitations is my recollection Don't quote me on this but it has to be in the same ownership So yes, you could put that on your property, but you would have to own it You couldn't sell that to somebody else and have it as a separate rent it you could rent it You could own it. You could have a family member live there You know a more complicated sort of thing might be a condominium sort of structure I haven't looked into that but I've heard that I know that downstreet housing is operating large grants like $50,000 grants for people to build these Right, and that's one of the things we wanted to you know share with folks when we have our meeting later this spring about Accessory and they're still doing that. They're still doing that and that's still available. Yes, Shelly. Did you have a comment? Yeah, I think My understanding if it's an accessory dwellers got to be a person it can't be over a certain percentage of the primary dwelling I mean size-wise. Yeah, I am yeah It's like that or or 12 or 11 or 12 square feet whichever is larger Yeah, but you know what I think some something happened in town they build They build the accessory dwelling unit first then they build the house and they swap it or something You know, I yeah, there's something but you can build like a set you can have a septic and everything put in I Believe so. Yes. Okay. Yeah, or you can also share yourself. I am to your Existing I think it can tie into your existing except if I have if it's I don't have a septic Yeah, yeah, and I think some of the septic issues are the bigger issues particularly in a town like Middlesex That's where it's a fairly high cost Sir, I'm sorry. What's your name? Ken Davis Ken Davis. Oh, thank you. Yeah I just want to say we just finished an apartment as an addition onto our house So it uses the same septic the same water well the same power supply And it turned out to be about 900 square feet, but it was for my mother Right That's attached to your house like it was an added on to your existing. Yeah, we converted a wood shed into a kitchen Storage room into a bathroom It makes sense that it would be under the same ownership and that would be the structure that you've got to deal with I think you're you are right when you were talking about You know how being able to have separate utility functions to each dwelling unit But property ownership would be the key. Yeah, that's the key. So like when you sell it is tells us one thing Yeah, okay. Yes, the other thing I wanted to add and just working with our DA on this We had a couple of these this year is that right now they have nothing in the state of Vermont so we use it as a an outbuilding apartment is called and The the costs that's included in the outbuilding apartment is a full kitchen and a full bathroom. Gotcha. Yeah It'll be my single living I'll move there when I get old and can't climb the stairs anymore, okay Any other questions for Sandy on all that good work you guys are doing on the Planning Commission? Do you give us a little bit of a idea what or about the? Worcester range what you advocated for or What you said or Where that's going who makes the decision this the state of Vermont I think it's forest park. No, not forest parks Visiting came no It's it's it's one of the departments within the agency of natural resources. It's the one that's responsible for the trees Is that forest parks and recreation? Yeah It's they're the ones who will be deciding this was the only Sort of the only time that it was a fairly generic plan that they that they produced And what we advocated for what there are two things in particular the state had recently passed a law Supporting more More land set aside for to remain or to develop old growth forestry and also to Have area more land set aside as ecological reserves and given that the area of the pieces of land in Middlesex is all Higher elevation the state lands in Middlesex along the Worcester Ranger higher elevation have not been logged for a long period of time We we Recommended that that the Middlesex portion of that land be set aside as an ecological reserve isn't that the the The issue between forest and parks wants to minute have forest management, right? And it's it's going to it will be a mix of forest management and you know some areas will not be But Middlesex Middlesex won't what be part of the forest management. It I mean That's what they will be deciding. I mean been decided under the plan You know, I think most of the land in Middlesex other than the really high elevation land would be eligible for logging if it was in a Ecological reserve it wouldn't be But we own that land in Middlesex. We don't it's not well we own we own land. That's the Okay, this is the management plan only for the state. It's just a state. It's a state lands That does not include the Middlesex town forest, which is part of the Worcester range, but that's under separate. Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. That's it. We the town of Middlesex decides how that's managed. Okay She did send out the comments. I think back in February 19th Anybody wants to read those? Yeah if our town plan advocates for Conservation, right? Yeah Another question about them Romney the walking path on shady real does the town not have a right of way that goes into people's lawns anyway That could be turned into a path. I don't know where that town where that town right of way is I mean that'd be one I would hope that's one thing we would kind of look at You know roughly measure where that is if there are right it could we I mean it goes into people's lawns Yeah, but I don't think I think they have to be cautious here because I don't think because the town has a right of way for the road for public access there I don't know about Building sidebar no that kind of thing. Yeah Well, yeah, but I mean certainly the town has all of the wreck fields that are there And it seems like you know place to start is can we have a walking path that goes along through the wet through the wreck Fields We would come to you know if that's what's talked about obviously that have to come to the select board Any other questions for Sandy? All right. Thank you Sandy. Thank you. Okay Let's see. Did we talk about oh we still need to Appoint a town voter to fill a vacancy on the planning Commission Okay So shall we Make a motion for that Make a motion that we appoint Paula on tante for buying commission. Okay, and Zara seconds it Right all those in favor of Paula O'Tenty to be on the middle sex planning Commission. Thank you Paula. I Okay Congratulations Paula Reappointing Larry Rooney and Sandy living to serve in the development review board action likely Is there anything we need to learn about this? Okay, and is there any other interest Oh, okay. Well, there are some requirements mean some people have to be from the planning Commission Okay, I would make the motion, okay Randy has made the motion second as Zara seconds All those in favor of reappointing Larry and Sandy to serve on the DRB say aye. Aye. Aye Okay, did you guys vote? I didn't hear you. I didn't I abstain. Okay, Vic abstain Um It's we're we're now ahead of schedule, but I do see Adrienne here. Is there any reason why we can't jump to Adrienne Meghita? Five minutes early You're not waiting for anyone, right? I can do two things and then we're waiting for Brian on zoom and he might be there already. Okay. Brian is on zoom. Oh, Brian is on zoom Okay, let's let's do the EWPB program first. Okay, great So Brian will start with the EW the emergency watershed program So yeah, considering MCC's requests at the select board engage in engineering services for the NRCS emergency watershed program All right, Brian. Is that something you're going to explain to us? Yeah, so Hi everyone Brian Voight senior planner at the central Vermont Regional Planning Commission. I met with you I feel like it was maybe two months ago now to talk about this program and The next steps and at this point we have conducted a request for proposals That RFP period closed about a week and a half ago We received two proposals as part of that process one from Northeast Or sorry New England consulting engineers for $38,000 and the other for from fuss and O'Neill for About a hundred and sixty six thousand dollars as a reminder the budget the engineering budget for this project was Capped it at forty thousand dollars See the RPC staff Conducted Reference checks for both of the both of the Proposers and we followed up with the natural resources conservation service They have to better understand You know budget constraints and any engineering or design considerations. They had in the decision-making process Following that as part of that we also met with Adrian and Larry Becker to discuss the the proposals so after going through that that process we're recommending that the The town of Middlesex proceed to contract with the New England consulting engineers to handle the Design bid and construction oversight services for those 10 projects that were funded by the NRCS You guys do you all have this Yeah, Brian, can you just say slowly the name of the company that was a higher bidder I Have it here. Thank you Okay, so Adrian refresh my memory Have we have we agreed like to do all of these 10 projects or this is like the engineering piece that is Okay, originally the grant was to cover a hundred percent of engineering Right Okay So the first step is to get the engineering set Often the state engineer will do this part of it, but they're too busy and so that's why we have that's why we're okay great So we haven't committed yet and or happily to all Ten I can't remember the price we have All ten people have said they're interested in moving forward and as Michael appoints the state engineer said they can pull out at any time until Okay, the shovels in the ground Right, and the good news was that we figured out how to do the payment for this So that we didn't have to grant is going to cover a hundred percent of the landowners Yeah, gotcha originally it was only 75 and we're gonna work out the nuances of payment and Due dates so that we don't have to borrow for this exactly And CDRPC is going to help serve in that role So the the contract will assuming you're willing to move forward with the contract the contract will specify the Invoicing procedure they'll come to us for approval will send them to you and prepare the advance Form for NRCS at the at the same time So the big change there was that the town didn't have to pay money and then wait to be reimbursed Once the invoicing process has gone through and we fill out the appropriate paperwork we can request funds to Pay the the contractor In a timely fashion Yeah, that's cool. That was really helpful We're appreciative of that. All right Are there any questions for Brian or Adrienne about this particular emergency watershed program where we There where they're recommending New England consulting engineers Nope, okay, hearing none. Is there a motion to approve New England? Engineering consulting engineers Okay, Randy moves second Vic seconds. Okay. All those in favor of hiring New England consulting engineers to work on the emergency watershed management program say aye. All right. All righty. Thank you, Brian Yeah, so just just really quickly Next steps. We will have a Contract for the the town that you can then I'm we're happy to share it with the New England consulting But I certainly want someone from the town to take a look at that before we send that out for signature and I was listening to the earlier part of your meeting and Heard about some construction bids if you have Construction firms that did apply for that other project work that were not selected We'd certainly be interested in knowing their names because we can direct solicit them at the time of bid for the The 10 projects that will be constructed as part of this emergency watershed Protection plan so you can pass that information to Adrienne and she could share with me, please Sarah will send it to you Brian we can do that Okay, all right, that's cool Thank you very much, okay Ten landowners that are gonna be very pleased All right. Thanks, Brian and so now we yeah, bye-bye, and so now we're going to talk about this lovely loop Yes, let's do a green update first. Okay, Dave Shepherd's gonna come but if he doesn't I can talk to Dave is here Okay, Dave is on there. Yeah. Oh, okay. Go ahead then talk about the loop. Sorry. Okay. Dave is here to talk about the loop Okay Yeah, so I don't know if anyone's had a chance. I didn't get it to you very early, but there is a little write-up the the town forest management plan has a section on Trails and recreational use so I did prepare Something to address the various criteria that are in there, but by way of just a quick overview As some of you may know if you've been up to the town forest there's an old woods road that goes in past the two cabins and That's been used kind of anecdotally for recreation for quite a long time So this proposal would be to use that old woods road But then to kind of create an additional piece of trail that would loop around and tie in to the lower end of Chases Mountain Trail To create a loop that people could do rather than having to just walk in and walk back out And it would be a shorter easier kind of a trail if someone didn't have the time or inclination to you know Do the entire trail up to the top of Chases Mountain? Okay, it doesn't look shorter, but it is Yes, the scale is a little hard to kind of grasp here But like if you look at the distance from the parking to the trailhead kiosk You can kind of see that the whole trail is probably Similar in length to that maybe a little longer We did measure it as being about a mile Whereas the Chases Mountain Trail is you know like 2.2 miles and the terrain is mostly pretty gentle too It's there's not really any real steep climbs or or drops on it other than The very first or the very last part depending on what you do it that's on the Chases Mountain Trail That's slightly steep I guess but not that steep and there's one other spot another other than that. It's it's pretty pretty gentle There are some wet areas, so we will need to do some drainage work to try to address that So the new part is by the two cabins Correct, and then it loops up to where I do if you have the map in front of you It loops up to where it says River and then it continues on from there and back over in the dotted line is the Chases Mountain Trail Okay So you're only seeing a tiny tiny piece of the Chases Mountain Trail Chases Mountain takes a long time to go up. You're going up and down and up and down So this new purple is all new and the green dotted is the actual existing trail Correct, so is the camera where it says River Junction? That isn't the view from where we when we get to the top of Chases. No. No Over the stream. I Okay, I thought you were saying that there was gonna be a loop from them Okay All right, so are you so there's not gonna be a loop from the the actual trail? This is a tiny little loop within the town forest Yeah, I thought that you were making a loop for the main trail like it wouldn't be an out-and-back What? Oh No, no, how to chase the mountain trail. This is just a separate little loop to kind of try to serve a different That's nice. I like that. Okay. That's cool. I guess I just did not read that I wanted a loop on the big one and that's what I that's what I read was a loop on the big one All right, that's cool And I was like how could it be so short Okay, any questions for do we have to make a motion? No, you're just telling us about this right exactly is he asking us I think you're just telling us you're just telling us Dave Yeah, we don't have to move this do we I just want to make sure you didn't have any objections. I mean the the decision-making process for projects in the town forest is not Entirely clear. I mean the measure plan says something about needing to have town approval I'm not quite sure what that means. So It seemed best to make sure that no one on the select board had problems with it before we got very far down the road I think the big question that I would have is if if doing so limits the use In any way other than what it is today For folks, I was just reading through here and it was like talking about mountain biking and talking about how the trail isn't designed for that and Other things and I guess my concern would be that if Folks are using it for in any capacity like that today and then we're limiting that I would have concerns with that The uses of the of the of the town forest doesn't allow for biking To do Dave did you hear that is is biking even use mountain biking in the town forest? It's not prohibited, but like the chases mount suited for it and this probably wouldn't really be either I mean, I don't I don't know that If someone really wanted to do it. I don't know that they would be prohibited from doing it But it's just not really designed for that Impressive and are hunting is allowed right in the town middle sex town forest or not? Yeah, okay, so So we're not we're not restricting you some anyway No, no, um, if anything we're might be increasing in a little bit. I guess because it'll You know make it a little easier to You know people that might be inclined not to want to go walk there because they didn't know where they were going I'm gonna have a trail to follow or another trail to follow And the chases mountain is kind of hard It's it's strenuous It takes a long time and keeps going on and on you think you're at the top and you're not and you're like I've got another so this will be nice for people that don't want to take a giant hike Yeah, if you want to take your dog for a walk or something, you know, it seems like a Reasonable thing to do in an hour or two in the afternoon rather than you know having a half a day thing plan for We were we were also thinking about children Yeah, no, I think that's nice. Yeah, it is it is better. Yeah Cool, and there's a stream and everything so that's fun and the cabins the scary haunted cabins Um, is there should we make a motion that that they should proceed with this possibility? Okay, Vic's gonna make that motion. I'm sucking it. All right We got Vic motioning and zara seconding the create the creation or research of a loop All right, all those in favor say aye Aye the ayes have it good good work day Okay, and then finally. Thank you for coming Dave. Um, finally we have green up day Um, john utas usually does green up day. He is Somewhere south right now. So I said I would do this for him and he is requesting Um dumpster to be put at the town garage On green up day because cell is willing to do that. They did it last year for the first time Before then it was the pickup that in the The dump truck and you had to climb up this huge ladder and dump this stuff over without knowing what you were doing The dumpster worked much better. It's 125 dollars for kasella to deliver it It's 205 dollars for them to remove it and then we figure about 150 dollars for the tonnage that's in it And that's a guess, but that's what it was last year So that comes up to 580 dollars In the town report. There was a line for green up day that said 500 dollars And we didn't know whether you had used that Last year for the dumpster Or you used it to pay for the tires that are collected that you then dispose of because the town Disposes of all the tires that are collected One year we gave them away. I thought that we also had there's a grant you can get well here's that's why There is a madam chair. Yes me interrupting here for a second. What did I do with this? Oh, here it is the green there's there just so happens And this is for 400 dollars. They've gone down from 500 to 400 So pretty much it can be Any trash disposal recycling Trash bags that you cannot use it for to pay the town to pick up stuff or food at beverages or any activity Does not occur on green up day, but other than that it should cover part of that cost awesome Okay, that's the grant you're talking about 400 400. It's a they here comes their former treasurer Yes So we've always applied our the person heading up green up day has always applied for that grant We've gotten it and then we put 500 dollars in the budget to offset other costs Okay, so really there could be technically 900 thousand dollars. Okay and so the Dumpster would be about 600 And that's a little bit of an estimate depending on how much trash we collect And then the rest of that money could go towards the tires that the town has offered to dispose of Okay, so that comes I mean it sounds like it's going to get covered though. It's going to get pretty close one year somebody Actually, it was Steve Martin's son got a farm to take the tires and they used them on the farm okay, so We could probably I don't know who would have that information Forge forum. See if somebody wants to yeah, but I know a farm took all the tires. Okay um Steve Was it steve's brother-in-law that had it for no change change kids Change kids. Okay. Yeah, which is now Who would the name and contact email for a person who will be submitting the receipts? Is that you sarah? Sure I mean it could be john utis. I always okay Somebody needs to apply for the grant. I will check with john to make sure he applies for that grant I just wrote myself. Well, I think isn't this it. This is it. Oh, I have to do a submit this What is your email clerk at little sex vermont? I'll spell that out. Yeah I did I'm so He doesn't have to apply for the grant. It's vermont dot org. Is it dot org? It is dollars. Okay Okay, so can I just ask a question? Is this like the normal fee for kasella to do a dumpster? Is this a lowered fee because it's green up day or has anybody contacted kasella and see if they'll give us any money off I just spelled out john has definitely contacted them and this is the price that they gave him And I don't know the answer to that question whether it's Normal or not. I have a contact at kasella. So if you want to get john in touch with me or I'll get in touch with john Okay, without it. Yes, peter I will do that. Thanks. It's just gonna say that my memory is in the past. It does a special rate for pre-op debt But I don't know whether it is this year or not It's the same rate that it was last year I'll tell you right now. That's a different rate than what you would get as a general calling. Okay. Okay Um, is bulldox gonna do a metal recycling? Okay, good. All right. I've signed it, sir. Um, okay, that's great. Um, Anything else are there bags going to be available this year? Okay, good Oh, you do. Oh great and green up days. What day may May may forth The first saturday of may first saturday of may I'll grab some bags. I like green up day Alrighty, um So we are a little bit early. Thank you very much. Thank you. Oh, no, it's 6 15. We're not early Mark Steinberg and linda Sue who sue sue Um application for a buyout of their camp Um So I just did just some I looked on fema was there anything that like They that that would prohibit like a second home or a camp from a buyout and it appears that no, that's not the case They may prioritize primary homes, but I also, um, just send an email Earlier today, but I haven't heard back just to see like Would they're just for the sake of these owners is this You know a shot in the dark that they'd actually get Actually So, yeah, go ahead. Since our last meeting there was correspondence with the state and the The dam division of the department of environmental conservation owns the land on which they sit the That's Do you understand what i'm talking about? repeat that who who that's The the camp owners mark Steinberg their camp doesn't sit It's it must it sits on a little teeny we need little sex parcel in the middle of state land So that's the complication and My question my conversation with the with the state has been, you know Does the town want to continue to maintain this little parcel in here? It's not easy to do, you know Once you remove the house, there's the conservation committee will have to come commission will have to come in and take pictures every Three years and submit them to the state to show that they haven't this land hasn't been developed But apparently there's some interest in the department of the dam division of the department of environmental conservation about maintaining that property If the board approves the buyout the reason why it goes before the select board is because you're saying yes We will allow We will allow this application to go forward knowing that his property will fall off our tax rolls once it does And you also this is also not the final say you're just Basically approving them to go through the application process, right? But you're saying that the state actually wants that parcel. They don't want it But they've they've I've been saying I just don't think that the town is I think the town's going to have some problems being Taining a piece of property. That's not really part of the town You know and anyway, apparently the state is is okay with taking over that responsibility after the buyout So they say So they say But again, you're not this isn't the final decision. It's just like all these other projects You're just if you design permission you're just saying yeah application can move go forward Okay, so I am fine with having their application move forward. Is there any discussion or worries? Feels a bit weird to to send a camp for buyout to me but It feels a little funny to me too, but I don't know that that necessarily is that matters, right? Because it's there's there's nothing in the FEMA information that I found that Remotely suggests that you know, that's not Now they now the state my understanding is the state Pays a percentage of the you know FEMA pays 75 in the state pays 25 The way it's been working Is that this in the past it's been that DEMA has paid 75 The town theoretically has paid seven has paid 25 percent But the state either runs finds a third party Organization such as two rivers out of qui chi to chip in for the 25 percent in this case And ever since the july flood The state has taken over everything so the town has just gone through the approval process of these buyouts But now I for example am not doing the buyout like I did on rich road where we had to go through all that Now the state's handling all this So the state will be handling this as well So I don't think there'll be a dime or town funds, right? And so the state will decide whether or not they want to buy that the state will decide whether or not If they want to allocate whatever funds they have left and the state's very well aware of this case Yeah, so I would say that let's go ahead move these people out of it though There's nothing for and then yeah, there's yeah, okay. So is there a motion? So moved Is there a second for second it okay, so This select board. Oh all those in favor say aye So we've passed the motion for approving the application for a buyout of their camp at 366 Vermont route 12 I think you have this the place is to sign your list Oh Peter did you vote on that or no? Yes Did you say aye? Okay, thanks Sorry, I didn't see you Peter Okay, so we have another like five minutes before Uh No, I'm sorry Yeah, we have third it's at 6 30 that we adjourned for the bca. Okay, so Status of rack space emails for office employees Action possible I don't know anything about this who who's so I I guess I'd like clarification as to is this a question of Rack space emails being set up for new employees Is that why this is on here or is this on here? because Of the conversation about switching this over to God says office employees. Yes Peter said add that to the agenda. Okay So before we can I just say something? Yes, a lot of discussions in the office with these guys who just installed her new copier And they're eager to get our it business Oh, my recommendation now that I know all about rfps and I love them is that I think we should rfp this Yeah work for it because there are two or three companies at least that want to want to do our it services here So before we get into whether or not we bring back rb tech to deal with this, maybe maybe that might be something that board might want to consider Okay Should we Think about making making a motion for that right now or put that on an agenda so we can more thoroughly discuss Put it on the agenda. I don't think you can right now, right? Oh, right because there's no right Okay, so yeah, so let's put it on next week's agenda to talk about it Um, and so that would be it plus our email systems Yeah, I'll be a part of it, right, okay I think you might want to consider the server too because part of the discussion was Whether to move to the cloud which would affect the purchase of the server I think I think it'll all be covered if you if you listed as it needs Okay, uh, welch park update action possible This is a great embarrassment to me to tell you this But our attorney who was working on amending the agreement Is temporarily closed her office because her sister has brain cancer and she's traveled out of the state Which is which is a really sad situation and you know, if I was if I was in her shoes, I'd be doing the same thing so but um Carl Balin Has contacted a brice breton Uh, who he knows and it's worked with And brice has promised us that for about the same money that she was charging He will do it. I mean he promises he will have it done If at all possible by the end of the month so We're hopping down the bunny trail, but we're not there yet Okay, great. We're now our third attorney Randy um, I was just going to ask about invoicing that was left Unpaid because we were trying to tie this up and get this finished up Um, has that been cleared up last I heard it wasn't I would say no I would say no and I would say at this point in time We need to unfortunately handle it the way we have in the past and divide it up and send out the bills and collect the money Well, we already had the insurance policy canceled I forwarded or Cheryl forwarded you that email How much is the bill? Um, everything's in that blue fold. Let's just pay it It's actually canceled, I believe But and then there was two watershed bills You were going to call Cheryl on them. Um, okay Yeah, you are here by giving written notice of cancellation policy number for non-payment of premium So we didn't pay it no because we were waiting for direction And then I would not know I mean I don't know I can't answer that one And then there was uh, two consulting bills for watershed consulting associates One for $450 one for $341 Up and here's a third one for $286 So all the all these bills go wait a minute. Now I see another one. I don't know what's going on here Okay, that's duplicates so, um So the three watershed bills you want to go to benderson What do you say watershed aren't they? Watershed of the water supply Watershed consulting associates its storm water inspection and reporting professional fees and reimbursable expenses And a water resource scientist Yes, Sarah That's what it is. Yeah, hold on peter saris. So it's the storm water runoff for the road because college park, um I think I actually think I try to remember because it is still not it was still not a town road. It's not part of our town municipal Uh, ground water program storm water program giving the permit for the entire town So their welch park needs its own storm water permit. I believe that that's what it pays for right, but My memory is on that is that we the town need to pay that for one year And then it will be incorporated in our Permit there after that right? I thought we did that when we started this initial paperwork There were two things there are two I thought we had paid that initial Assessment when we started this paperwork two parts of that there was a part where we switched Where we had to notify the state I'm trying to do this for memory So we had to notify the state that we were using That this would have that this needed a different permit. And so that needed its own permit To move forward in a year and then we also needed to do just the normal Uh storm water program I think that's right Right, that was the 160 dollars, right? Yeah, right, which is not what these are I don't know how much are those one for 450 one for 341 and one for 286 thousand dollars Okay Yeah, it says on it fire state Right Well, it does say on it fire station, but then we had the discussion that We had already paid that 160 permit. That's why We we started this process probably a couple months ago anyways, and we discussed this Um And what do you want done with the insurance? Let's see a katia insurance For questions or changes called the allera group Yeah, that's let me I'll call I'll call them and see if it's possible to get that policy reinstated. I mean, it seems Crazy to have it enforced for only a couple of weeks, but I hate to go without insurance. So let me see what we can do Well, I think we got I'll get back to you dorinda Well, get back to get back to the treasurer's email. I mean charl is the one handling this and um But i'm filling in for her tonight All right, but well Is that 800 dollars? What was the cost of that two thousand three hundred and twenty three dollars? It was effective Okay Correspondence, I just want to say that um, I did email michelle redmond about um the Branches and the bus stop The bus driver who was from the pirate department. I forget his name Scott yes that scott was talking about and They went out and assessed That curve and are going to do some brush and tree trimming on that curve Send shady road No, it's on route 12. Yeah punnabell. Yeah, and then she said Traffic safety investigator is issuing a work order to install the school bus stop signs in both directions. So that's good He also suggested that the town should check the battery of the solar power radar feedback sign since it might not be charging correctly The 35 mile an hour sign. Yeah When I came through it wasn't working the one going from Worcester Yeah So is that something you guys can look at since we have we have what happened But you call the people that make the thing and They kind of give you a run around and what they tell you to do doesn't work So it's almost like you have to replace the whole thing. Yeah, okay But we will ask erick to check into that again All right Yes, sir another correspondence. I do I have a correspondence from nicole and de agasino. She wanted this forwarded to the board About trash on shady rail She said I heard a lot of interest from people putting up a sign to deter littering on shady rail near the intersection with route 12 I know we have green up day, but people are really fed up Is there any way to put up a sign stating the fine for littering? And I just want to know that we need to have an ordinance before we can have a sign You know, okay Heck if money is a concern. I'd be happy to pay for it. I'm soaked up Also, I'm hearing a lot of concerns about the amount of potholes and roads and towns people are concerned about safety I've had a few close calls with damaging my car myself. Are there plans to build in some of the bigger ones? and big if I'm not mistaken Eric did do that. There are a bunch of those potholes have been since last week they spent. Yeah, right Thank you It'll stay there so then her requests would require that we have some sort of town policy on trash So maybe we put that on our um Our goals our goals list. Yeah Which we need to put that on our agenda. Yeah creating a goal list Um Finish review of the personnel policy should be on that list as well and we should Finish a review of the part personnel policy should be on that list as well Yes, okay, it is 6 30 and it's time for us to um Adjourn this meeting Are we done with this meeting or did you know? No, I wanted to bring something up. Okay Sarah, do you know if the people are coming or not? Oh, we've got okay. I didn't see him. Okay. So yes, they are So do you adjourn adjourn this? No, no, we haven't adjourned, but it's 6 30 and Well, he wants to say more big does which is fine. But should we like how What what is just a minute? Okay. Go ahead. Okay. So, uh, I know this wasn't warned or anything. Um There's a couple of culverts on lower Sunnybrook road That we have two big culverts there and we're going to get a Study we do we we have a hydraulic study going and if you look at it Um, the water comes from the left hand side of the our as you're going up Goes through crosses the road goes out Comes around it goes back across the road and back over to the same place and there's about 800 feet in between it That's owned by pierce um I can't think of the other there's a three acre parcel and then rudy howl But we would have to approach those people to see if They would be willing to sell or or lease or give us a Yeah, right away. Okay And so I was wondering if if uh anybody wants to look into if We want to look into that so so that you guys can put in a culvert or something No, no, we'll put in a channel. No culverts. Just channel a channel Oh, so that it so that it moves stays all on that side of the road. You could eliminate those two culverts Maybe that's part of the roads of dollars in those culverts Um part of what they wrote committee. I think they were I think they were focusing on mud. Yes I just thought I'd brought it up bring it up tonight in case any of you guys get any brain storms in whole week How this process moves forward, right? Okay. Thanks for saying all right. Yes, sir so um We've done right a ways before and what you have to do is we have to get the you have to tell if you get Exact dimensions of what you want on those maps like exactly where you want right away And then we need to get our town attorney to approach the homeowners or re-approach the homeowners and if they're amenable Does we have we have a right away? right away deed Right drawn up Right, and of course the other thing is to know if a and r will let us even do that. Well, maybe those things should be What's that? Maybe that should be research before we have the property owners Oh, we do have a request and to a and r the But they're changing the guy was jaren borg and I understand through the the Rumor mill that he no longer does that somebody else doesn't we gotta find that person Right we will Okay So now you're gonna adjourn okay, so we're gonna adjourn the meeting at 6 35 and then we're going to start a new meeting