 Good morning and welcome back to why in the morning at Y254. My name is Sankara Kaisu and I'm here with the discussion of the day. Today we are going to discuss about reading culture. Reading culture, somebody has described it to me here as an environment or putting an environment where reading is valued, promoted and actively encouraged. Putting an environment where reading is valued, promoted and actively encouraged and that is what we are going to discuss here on our social media handles. We asked why do you think nowadays you don't see people with those big novels reading. I used to be, I used to see when I was young that people, especially girls, university girls used to carry big books, very big books you wonder when she will stop and reading it but now that is no more. We are going to see what has really happened with reading culture and with me in studio those who have joined me are two people who are very relevant to this topic. One is a student who is supposed to be really reading, we'll know whether it's reading or not and now a specialist. A student is called Enoch and a specialist, a reading specialist is called Joseph. I love their names, their names are biblical. So can you introduce yourself starting with Enoch, tell us everything about you that you think we need to know your name, your area of study, where you study and maybe your social media handles in this camera here. Okay, my name is Enoch Nyamongo, I'm a student at the University of Nairobi. Second year taking Bachelor of Arts Anthropology. Also I'm so interested, my major part as a talented guy, are my names of Nairobi University and I love reading. What do you mean MC? You do MC? I usually host some events, mostly talent events in Nairobi University. Like televised or something at UNTV or something? We mainly focus on growing talents in the University. So we usually hold some events, editions, U.N. talents editions where we are having our students who come to participate and also compete where we get them and nature their talents. That's nice, Enoch Nyamongo. Yeah, welcome to White Faith 4 and then we have Joseph. Joseph, how are you? I'm fine man, how are you doing? And you're welcome to White Faith 4, you can tell us about yourself please. My name is Joseph Mwa, I'm an author, I'm a publisher and I'm an advocate for the reading culture and I'm also a motivational speaker. I'm so passionate about books and the power that it can bring to people. That's exactly why I'm here to have it on the table to show you how this can be valuable to your life. Do you have social media handle? Yes, you can find me on social media at Joseph Mwa official or platforms, YouTube, TikTok, everywhere. Oh, you're welcome Joseph Mwa. Let's start with you on this. Are you saying you are an advocate of reading culture because you see there's a problem with reading culture in our country or what has motivated you to be an advocate of reading culture? Well, there's a huge problem with the reading culture in our country, especially Africa in general. People don't read, people have lost it. I mean anytime somebody sees a book, they just see something which is going to bother them, something which is just going to waste their time. But then when you go back in time, these were valuables. There were things which when people had them, they were equivalent to wealth, a vast amount of wealth. If you look at history, you'll find people used to pose with books, scrolls, all these things, libraries were places of value, places where people would love and really want to be at. But right now, look at libraries. No one wants to go, no one wants to buy books. And yet at the same time people are struggling. You see I tell myself this and I'm an author. So when I'm writing a book, I understand what it takes, especially non-fiction books. Every single thing that I know at that particular moment, I'll put it down on paper. I will spend time meditating, going through my mind, trying to get every single thing that I've learnt in my entire life within that specific period of time to write it down on paper. Every single person who has written a book out there, they have gone through the same process. So what I say is if we can become like supercomputers, go take a book, read it, download that information. You will be able to learn the things that that particular person brought, spend an entire lifetime learning within two days or one day. If that's not a short cut, then what is? I am coming, I want to zero into that problem first. Did you say that there is a problem in the reading culture? There's a huge problem. Is it scientific? Have you measured it to know that people no longer read? Yes. What statistics do you have? Statistical. Okay. The problem starts from our education system. When you look at most people when they finish high school, there was a time we used to have this habit. Anytime we finished fomfo, we would go buy books and we would be so happy about it. Why do you think that is? That is these people communicating something that these things have stressed me in my entire life. And I'm completely done with them. So let's now move on to other parts of life. Now, here's the scientific part of it. That wiring whereby you have to study something which you're not interested in, something which your mind does not align with. It rewires your mind to associate reading with pain, to associate reading with something you don't want to spend time doing. So when you grow up, anytime you see a book your mind goes, no, no, no, I don't want to be at that point. I don't want to do that. So this educational system which, by the way, has not really get us towards that which we are naturally cut out to be. You know you're reading about biology, you're reading about geography, but really you're not wired. Your mind is not wired to be that. So when you're forcing your brain to do something, it will repel back. So that repulsion is what is taken away our reading culture. So it shows you how much many people are not aligned with the natural self and they end up hating books which they're supposed to help them and associating that with pain. We are coming to that, to that hate. Now let's talk to the student. Okay. Yes. What was the last time you were in the library? Apparently the last time I was in the library was last week. Oh, so you read? Yeah, I usually read. And immediately it was because, I usually read, but because of that we were doing some exams. So I had to do some revision. So you went to read for exams? Not really, but sometimes actually. I love reading. Oh, you love reading? Yes. Have you read a complete book, a non-fictional, have you ever read a non-fictional book cover to cover? Okay, that's where the problem starts. But actually I don't feel any. Oh, I started to begin to read, but sometimes I'm destructive, I usually develop another ability to read another one. For example, volume 2. So you don't finish? I usually don't finish, but it is not a character that I've already developed. It started soon, but it would complete a full script of a novel somehow. Difficult? Difficult. Cover to cover? Yeah. I want to know why you think it is difficult for people to finish, to start and finish a book? Okay, great. This is the reason why it's difficult for people. Anytime you see, people understand the power of knowledge and they acknowledge it. You tell them, you know what, the only difference between a man who is successful and a man who is suffering is this knowledge. So anytime you tell them, read books at first, they will be so excited about it. So they will go like, okay, right now, I'm a buyer book now. Okay, let's read. But the moment they get in there, their mind has not yet been rewired again to taking that information. They still have that subconscious unliking of books. So they end up getting distracted. They end up getting bored in the process. So what I think should be done really for people to actually have something going on like this curiosity, this I want to have this knowledge, is to step by step lead people through a program whereby they are going to practically be able to read, let's say for example, you read one page a day, two pages a day, three pages a day. And at the end of the day, let's say for example, it takes three months to cultivate a new habit. At the end of three months, these people have already rewired their mind again to associate now this thing with reward. Okay, again, yes. You get the point. ...of people are different, for example. And usually it's somewhere that there's some people burn books and they did it at my school. It was just like a ceremony or like a fair and party to reading. You've made me think about it now that while we signal in the end of reading when we finished from four and all that, and you have to also say that when you read for exams, I know you've also read for exams. Yes, sir. You stream, stream to read, try to get those things in your head. And they are there for it. That's why you don't remember so many things you know. Ah, yeah. Is it cultivating, is it bringing a problem, is it bringing a negative energy to reading culture and all this? Yes, yes. It's bringing a negative energy to reading culture and cultivating that apathy because when you look at reading, when people read for exams, you read in a hurry not to gain knowledge but to accumulate information. There's a difference between knowledge and information. So you want to accumulate as much information as possible within a very short period of time so you can go ahead and download the same into whatever, question papers, the exam you're writing. So that doesn't work. Your brain, you can't rush your brain. And the issue you talked about reading, burning books to signalize the end of reading, you realize reading is supposed to be lifelong. I usually say there's no saturation point to reading. There's no day you will just be like, you know what, I've read everything. This is why I usually have a problem with this graduation ceremonies and all these things, degree people are being awarded because that kind of makes you feel that you have all the knowledge you need in that particular field while the truth is after you graduate, that is just the starting point of the whole thing. Reading is supposed to be... In fact they say during graduation that you've been given power to read and write. Exactly. Why people think it's the end of reading? But people don't take that seriously though. They don't take that path, they just take it as just another phrase which is mentioned but it has an essence to it. It's supposed to encourage and tell you, you know nothing yet. There's still more for you to gain out there. What in Barfet is one of the richest people in the world. Is the fund of Bakshi Hathaway's and all these other companies. This guy, even at the age of 87 he reads books. He reads a book a day. He says now because of all it is slowed down. And then you want to go like why is this guy so, so, so rich? It's because of reading. Opro Winfrey runs the biggest book club in the world. Tai Lopez runs the second. And these guys are reading. They actually lean on more of reading culture and cultivating skill than anything else. That's great. Yes sir. Let's see John Beers to fiction or fictious and unfictious books. Books with fiction with fictitious characters are things like no. Things that are not real. Somebody just creates a story that it happened. That's what we have in most novels. Maybe some may be related to real life stories or situations. But the fact is that they are fictitious. Some are non fictitious. Real life. Say science. Say What is your experience when you read fictions and when you read realities? Okay. I personally I love reading the realistic novels. Yes. The reason is some of the some of the things that you get to inquire or you have to apply in your personal life. But the fiction one actually it's like you're watching a movie. So you personally people I personally I don't love watching movies which are actually not real. I don't have that attitude. I don't develop that attitude to read those fictitious novels. But the moment I read the realistic novels I start to know these and these some themes that I usually face in life. I can handle them in this way because I read this book which directed me to solve such situations. Okay. Thank you. We are going to pick it just from there to get expert's reaction. We are taking a short break a very short break and then we are coming back to you to end this conversation. In life and we were getting the expert's opinion on what he thinks about reading too much drama that didn't happen that was created by somebody creative work and real life things sort of such and all that. Yes. What's the implication? All type of work both fiction and non-fiction because also I feel like fiction to some extent it's a creation in one's mind and in the modern time we're living in a creation of somebody. I mean like things which are making life convenient to us they are a creation of a man. Right? I mean phones and everything that we're using man came with something creative. So when you read this they unlock something in you of creativity. You understand? You start like okay this person is thinking along this line so also for me I can be able to think so it creates some it unlocks some creativity in you but also books which let's say stories of real life happenings they're so inspiring because there's a book I read called named Kuntiki Kuntiki is a story of a guy who crossed the Atlantic ocean maybe in a raft so this is a story of inspiration it's a story which tells you no matter what you go in life things can also be it makes you relate your situation with this guy so encouraging and inspiring every kind of work is important both non-fiction and fiction they have the same impact in our lives. So do you encourage people to read both or what you like you read what you like I encourage people to have a balance or to have a balance to have a balance between fiction and non-fiction because sometimes you can read too much fiction and then it's not helping you you're just living in your own imagination but also you need to read books about you know something just came to me when you look back when you look back in our high school in our studies there was no book which was titled money and that's an important aspect of our life so anything I usually say this anything you're going through anything you can't figure out there's always a book about it why don't you just go and find it read it elevate your mind you don't have to you know put your mind in this one one way where you're only reading what you're studying be diverse read about psychology read about journalism have this diversity of wisdom in the books you read Enok, let's talk about barriers what diverts your mind when you start reading or what disturbs you what disturbs you what makes you not go on with reading if you want to read and all that the first thing is the moment I start reading and have my my divorce loza to me that is the first barrier the moment I have received any message a pop message and already have been alerted my mind diverts from the book to the message yes secondly it depends on the platform where I'm reading the book maybe it is an online book so the moment I'm in you know the moment I'm in my phone it may it there are more distractives compared to when I read my hard hard book novel so that's personally will not make me to develop to continue reading that book and thirdly the moment I'm reading in the process of reading maybe sometimes I felt like I've read a story and that story already I personally in personal life I experience it or I saw my friend experience it so I'll start diverting my minds to that and I'll come up with some solutions whereby already I've not finished the reading but already I've started coming with some solutions so I don't have that need for me to complete the book I asked him that to introduce now the barriers of the reading culture the poisons what poisons the reading culture in our country one number one poison is free books anytime you get something for free you don't pay attention to it so avoid anything which gives you you know there's a free app where you can get free books you will not pay attention you'll now put yourself the discipline to sit down and get your value back so I suggest go and invest real money use it buy a book spend I was saying this because you are a North you want your books to be bought no it's the truth it's a psychology too if I give you something for free you won't pay attention to it how about if you buy it you will be like okay I got to take care of this thing because I spend money in it right so anytime you spend you say okay I'ma take my 1000 go and buy this book how you will make sure that book you will read it but if I give it to you for free you won't ever read it so invest I have something to track you so that it makes sure you have you get your value back number two number two ebooks versus the hard books yes avoid ebooks they're important they're the same thing but avoid them because of distraction you see anytime you get this you are used to your phone your phone is something which subconsciously it has already gotten into your subconscious like this is where you get memes you know your mind knows anytime you hold it's there's nothing serious you're doing there so anytime you're reading you're just something puttsing tiktok you want to you want to check your mind will never concentrate I usually say the effect that you get when you're holding a book like this you're reading it's it will never be the same when you read a book in ebook it's like you are in a gym but then you're watching so you're just like you're watching people walk out and then you want to be like oh man and you expect you expect to lose your big muscles you will need to go into the gym physical yes do it reading is to the mind what lifting weights is to masses so you will need to do the actual thing he talked about forms yes yeah that you are now talking about it as a distractor so that we don't read from the form the ebooks but I want to know how exactly you deal with it where do you put your phone when you start reading or writing I have my specific reading times that's all you need every day make sure you have a time where you've allocated you say this is a time where I'm not going to do nothing else but read it could be in the morning it could be in the evening so that time you put your phone on flight mode or you just put it away completely put it away take your book read write the sit down take your notebook write notes read read put your mind in there read how long how long is that how long do you do really you can it depends on you how fast the reader you are or how much you you can get information in you so it can be an hour normally I suggest that you start with an hour okay so and probably do it in the morning when you wake up the first thing because when you start that's when you're reading your mind is churning it's like a ninja it's churning it's it's you know all these things are being activated it will start your day well if you can then you can also do it in the evening that's after maybe you meditate you clear your mind you're rested you can read it so that now when you're sleeping and it everything that you've read that's exactly what will be going on in your mind exactly so it will stick in where do you read where do you read I know you you don't often go to library you go to library when you have exams so where do you read your own nanakademi kwaak majorly that's I wanted to that he may focus on the EE learning some some others prefer to share their books online I personally I love reading my books online compared to the physical one so you'll just see me it is a rare rare condition whereby you'll see me in library compared in my in your phone and the ones in your phone are free books yeah some some of them are free to purchase them as a student I can give you an example as a student also in journalism we were told uh sometimes back that we purchased a book chozi langu and that book actually it was inter online so you had to buy it so another another person came up with an idea he modified the book and put it in a pdf form then that's that's what circulated among students compared to the when you compare those who went is that back to high school no in campus or in the campus so when you compare those who bought the book they are very few compared to those who access online okay but now now come back to my question you have stole that somewhere in your subconscious part of brain where do you read where oh you say you read in the via the phone so maybe in the bed when sleeping the place some any free place that I am for example I'm in a session I told you that I'm a host as an emcee when I'm done then I have to retrieve I have to those being tired when I'm I'm a free place so enok it's clear that you don't dedicate a specific time for reading as you say any time I can read you've not dedicated a place for reading and you are vocating for reading of the soft copies and all that and it was talking about the teroriation of the reading culture in this country so you see your points are being validated here by enok but also also I had I had him saying that you asked him how do you manage your phone for example your device and reading he puts it okay it is actually indication that I have mine here I don't know where the problem is you see this but now react to his to his methods and claims yeah you see this is book about limit limitless by Jim quick he says the way for you to unlock the ultimate potential in your mind you will need to avoid one of the things that he says you need to avoid is social media distractions so social media you should not be on social media if you're not doing anything important don't be on social media so instead of putting your gadget where you are just put it away and say you know for the next two hours I will dedicate this to developing my mind and also coming back to his point whereby he says about buying books that's also part of what is killing the culture because when you look at it you also denying the author something so we will not have new voices with new creativity which will spark something an interest in us for the next 10 years if people are not going to buy books because author is somebody who will dedicate their time to write they will need to feed they will need to pay rent they will need to travel who is going to pay them if we are consuming their work for free so that would mean the people won't be writing because you won't be writing if you don't have a return on your investment exactly do you get it I'm not getting it can you write and then you don't get anything out of it people you give for free I do sing sometimes yes sir and I feel it when somebody says that we send you your song and you will get what's up you know we said for free and you said you sing your own bundles and then you spent a lot of money in studio recording it preparing it and all that and then somebody says I may ask this question for example as technology changes and you find more authors personally I've made some of them they prefer to share their books only so maybe through the online platform that's why they can have some to boost their their writings so and also the nature of reading hard books personally as a students and also my friends we take it as a in a turudisha numa I am a chief operations manager applied knowledge publishers and I normally advise authors when they come don't share your books online why would they share their books online print books matter of fact amazon amazon is a amazon you have to pay for you to read those books yes so all these other things which are happening behind the curtains it's just unprofessional analysis you understand and that is going to kill a lot of creativity it's going to create an apathy people are going to be like I don't want to write because maybe I will never make sales but people let's say in the developed countries they understand the intricacies of this matter that's why you will find someone has a home library and speaking of home libraries I feel like every single person should have a home library I mean is it is it not a coincidence anytime you walk into big office you'll find some books at the back yes you know at the back cover or if you see some prominent lawyer talking their books at the back they are books at the back so those really during after graduation usually go to have some pigs the background actually me personally I usually take it as a this form of a beauty so but imagine if if that thing which they want to communicate to the world they actually actualized it the books they are taking pictures if they have read it can you imagine this if you dedicate your time right now to reading a book a day and reading a book doesn't even need to be like from page to page no some books even just have one thing for you to take I usually say there's nothing new under the sun so something which one author is going to write about another author is definitely going to write about in a different way but in there somewhere in between those pages there's one thing one thing which is unique so why don't you become like a smart computer where you pick just one thing all right you pick one one thing in one book like that in a year you will have read about how many books 365 that's 365 worth of new knowledge yeah by the way speaking of authors my time is running and we've not talked about authors how can one just decide to write a book how do you start how do you start yes I believe every single person is an author yes so let's ditch this myth whereby I mean you will need to be talented to write yeah some people let's say fiction they will need some kind of talent but every single person is unique and they know something that another person doesn't know in your position where you're sitting right now you have accumulated years of knowledge in interviews that knowledge someone else needs it so why don't you just package it into a small something and then sell it we're living in the information era in the next 10 years 5 years people are going to be selling information and it's already happening pure information consultancies are so why don't you you find every single person in their capacity where they are working why don't why don't they just package what they know the little they know everything I get you so I say the next the next generation of billionaires are those who are investing selling your knowledge are you getting it are you trying are you planning to write anytime infact from here I'm going to start every single person he has inspired yeah I mean you just need I'll start it's not hard you just need to find somebody for us I applied knowledge publishers we offer free consultancy you come around tell you okay buddy what do you have okay I have knowledge about this and this and this and this I know how to do this okay this is how these are the steps in which we can help you write your books before unit within one month we have something where is this applied applied knowledge publishers along the carod blessed house office number 21 opposite garden where exactly along the carod opposite garden city mall oh opposite garden yes sir yes sir when the city is around exactly it's easy to find yes and work there personally and work there it's important we consult yes can we just a little read what people have say online so many people are watching us by the way from the look of the things what we've got from our social media and as we can interact with us we can we'll read your comment if you comment on at wide for in every social media platform and now I'm coming with the Facebook comments and we asked this was our questions Bona watu apendi kusaman of this quiz Bona watu apendi kusaman of this and people have answered that questions many of you in fact we cannot finish reading your comments but now there's one here who is called Changela Vo he said good morning niniwa niya mnuna vilitu kubisi na kili kifikari kifikiri atu persa wuki geuka wuku nikeleleza politicians the other side gava haina 4 million kwa vijana alafu so this guy is talking about psychological measures and all that people are busy looking for money yes what I feel is you see when when you're looking out for this everything which is happening trying to find solutions in places where you know you can get solutions why don't you just emas yourself in books man I mean like there are books which talk about they talk about everything you need to know if it's money you're looking after you're chasing after there are books which will give you a head start on how you can be able to to move on so instead of looking out for all these things oh the government needs to give me some money to invest all these things which are happening why don't you just pick a book man even read read speaking of picking a book there's somebody called Peter Peter kikina rao kijanam digital anasema nilijaribu kusoma anofu niki kunyo juis kama mzungu hatasi kuma leza pej moja nili kwa ni me me leza juis from that day nofu niliyajchia waatru wene wame make it in life so this guy is like trying to read the way anasu read ako naka juo mahali so anasip aki suma anasipa kusoma anasema kuma leza pej moja naka glasili kwa ni meisha so what's your comment about this oh you want to let it not comment first you also do juis ah sometimes we try to put ourselves in some people eh what really yes for example we are in this session and uh kiyangalia ula pata there's some drinks about kiyangia yes so kuna umtumingine in the same session atataka kwa kwa the same station yes in palingu oh your comment on it please I think uh know yourself yes just know yourself I mean there are people who are too far off I mean like you understand if it can't work for you then the other ways of actually getting that we have podcasts we have audiobooks we have movies watch those somebody is saying uh is called deniz he's saying deniz uh moka he's saying I'm too lazy for it man I start I don't finish what should I do advice this guy you're not too lazy it's just a mindset you have on you the minute the day you realize how much power books have man you will never be lazy again let me tell you just that so just condition I mean get yourself started on a on a routine of getting your natural capabilities of reading back and you will have it it's just a matter of practice by the day two weeks one week you be good you're not lazy okay there's somebody saying imani imani imani staff he says good morning novels nowadays it had to make a j and the social media the social media replacement for reading it will never be a replacement for reading that I can tell you that for sure yeah you know I usually say this people might as much as people might think social media is going to give you all the information you need books books books of look nations have have come they've perished kingdoms have come they've perished but still we have books dating 18 or whatever they're still there they will never fade somebody saying some novels are boring to read is this bothering choices or what to read and all that yeah yesterday talked to my friend he told me that said initially he said there is some of the novels he can read maybe you are expecting to read this novel it is a love novel talking about love then your expectation is different you find fiction but which it doesn't major in love so you just elect inakua board inakubo duktokabu so elekituna expect alafu na pia some of them there are some authors wanna hit direct wanna puja direct if you want to get money do this and this so ukiyangalia ukiyanda you direct it is so difficult for you okay people have commented they cannot finish then people like mendoa leonard reisun reishan jia ki jia si ki gres benson alupian msi joan lenokso chieng so many comments we can finish but time is of essence to us time is money time is what we send here I want you are closing remarks maybe award or two to your fellow students on reading going forward things you've learned here and maybe what you are going to do going forward enok okay to my fellow youths the moment we began to read that's why we will be free to stress and everything in this life so the moment we start to develop this habit of reading we are now free we are now free uhu we pay with GMBA ya ya ya we pay with GMBA we pay with GMBA we pay with GMBA we pay with GMBA we pay with GMBA just a moment of truth for wisdom okay um what I feel is the solution you're looking for desperately working out to look for is in books you'll find it because there's always a book about everything and every author who's written a book they don't joke about writing it everything that has worked in their life they put it down on paper for you to download become like a supercomputer accumulate all this kind of knowledge read all this kind of books and now later you can say you know what it didn't work for me and also understand this whatever you know you can always package it package it into a book it's not a myth it's not a talent whatever you can always write a book just find the right person to lead you and you will make money and also sell your creativity yeah and also we need to unlock creativity in young people as they grow up okay so if you have babies or you have your younger sisters and brothers begin gifting them books let them understand this is something valuable let them and let them begin rewiring their minds not as a shade books with pain but reward but with prosperity and all these things because that's actually the truth we are here civilized because we went to school and read books I mean look at if that's exactly led us to where we are how about if we read a book every single day how far could we be so let's start with this the apathy of I don't read a book I don't love books start your start your own library do something okay if you start buying books every single month you buy books by the time you get to your 40s or 50s you will have already a full library to give to your kids or your grandkids and they will appreciate the knowledge nice that's nice you see there's so many people like me who want to write but you cannot write if you are not reading so you start by reading I think this is very educative and informative we it's not for granted it's not just like any other MCM I propose that you watch this again and again you are going to put it in YouTube just such a 254 and going forward let's change let's be a reading nation so that we don't kill the reading culture in Kenya this has been why in the morning Enoch and Joseph thank you for joining us for this talk and everybody who made this segment or this MCM as access from the camera people TX production sound and all that thank you for making it and you who was watching us from home thank you for making time for us till we meet next time