 Good afternoon to the hearty people who are here for the most important and best panel and And also to that we've had out throughout the day just so you know a couple of thousand people live streaming as well, so we also want to welcome the Virtual audience that is joining us from beyond the camera now throughout this conference We've heard a lot of different really interesting technologies cyber rifles Electroceuticals robots drones You name it and this is the panel where we're actually going to talk about that writ large and what it means for warfare What it means for the military and we're very fortunate to have a terrific panel here with us today I'm going to introduce them briefly and then each will give a little bit of an opening comments And we'll get in some conversation and we will engage you since you are still here So I'm going to start at the far end So, oh, right. Sorry. We have a poll for you to take first And then because we have to take this poll so we know what to talk about. So if you would please Tell us what you think the most important new innovation because this is the question that the panelists are about to answer So why don't you tell us what you think and then okay? You're running out of time if you haven't answered already Reasonably distributed although directed energy so noted comes out on the short end robotics artificial intelligence genomics Bioengineering which I think is pretty consistent with what we've heard throughout the day So let me introduce the panel and then we'll see what they think what their answer is and how well it compares with your answer First I want to introduce friends and then who is a chief operating officer at assure and I'm going to tell you I really want you to look at their bios, but I'm going to tell you what they mean, which is she is and Really working on R&D between the university and the defense Industry so that's an interesting place to be and she has a great perspective for us Dr. Lynn Parker is with the National Science Foundation But what you really need to know about her is that she herself is one of the nation's leading performers of research in artificial intelligence and robotics and other things as well So she is both a performer and a person who helps other people perform similar research Alan Easterling is a Oh has such a multifaceted career started out as a naval officer and as an acquisition executive And today is at Northrop Grumman where he is their futurist So that is a very interesting job and appropriate for this panel Karen Carrington is has done it all She is a C-17 pilot She was a defense appropriator a defense professional in the Department of Defense and she's now at Facebook So we have a very interesting perspective there and I end with you general Goldfein because I'm going to start with you So general David Goldfein is vice chief of staff of the Air Force. He was director of the joint staff before that And has an amazing career as a warfighter and a leader And as I told him when we were waiting in the green room if you like you can still look up One of the signal experiences of his life when we say that he's had time between Behind enemy lines. We're not talking about Congress. So Google it look it up What I'd like to do to start off, you know the the role of innovation in warfare is as old as warfare I mean the links between technical innovation and war and Society and war and technical innovation that's been going around and around for thousands of years You know certainly at least since the stirrup So is it different now it sounds like throughout this day that's certainly been the case that we've all been discussing That it's global. It's commercial that the military doesn't necessarily own the means of innovation anymore And that's the kind of conversation we've been having and that I'd like this panel to have and where I'd like to start with you General Goldfein is You know general Milley said this morning There's not going to be any innovation in the next 10 years That's going to change the nature of ground warfare and largely because our acquisition system won't allow us to incorporate it But after that, it's going to change the nature of ground warfare So in the next 10 years or if you agree with general Milley's timeline What's going to change what innovation is going to change the nature of in all of your domain cyber Airspace, what do you see coming down the pike? Yeah, thanks, and it's great question And it's really an honor to be on the panel with especially with such a distinguished group What's going to really change for us and it it won't surprise you that when we talk innovation as airmen We feel that's central. I mean we that's how we became a service, right? When we focus on air and space and cyber and how we pull that together So for us as we look to the future the coin of the realm is about multi-domain battlefield network and what happens because it was interesting when you took a look at you know at your Question, I would actually say all of the above Because it's really not any one particular aspect of robotics or hypersonics or whatever The real question for us is what happens when you pull that together in a multi-domain? environment And it's central to the way we as an Air Force think You know if you take a look, you know, I was privileged to be the last F1 17 pilot to fly this stealth fighter And when I took off and flew in that aircraft, I actually had a switch in the cockpit That when I flipped the switch All my sensors stowed and I shut the world off and my radios stopped and in a single ship single domain air domain Sequential closed system. I went in and do my did my business Today's f-35 just to give you an example before you actually even taxi You turn the switch and power it up. It starts doing machine to machine collaboration in the network. It compares Information and it has algorithms that produce confidence values and when it reaches a certain value It actually starts placing symbology on the visor of the pilot and that same symbology is displayed in command and control Networks and so it's a complete open system architecture and a networked approach And so when you talk machine to machine collaboration big data and Human machine teaming to make better decisions. That's what the future looks like for us And so I would tell you for as an from an airman and actually I would tell you this from a joint force perspective It's going to be the building of the battlefield networks and a networked approach to warfare That's going to be the most revolutionary aspect for the next 10 years Let me skip down the line for a minute and and Lynn So what you just heard the general say you're thinking of a societal effect And I know you and I talked and you one of the things that stuck with me as you said I asked you if when I'm a grandmother, you know knock on wood Am I not going to recognize the world that I live in and have to ask my grandchildren what the technology means? So what's going to change? Society Lee that's going to affect what general Goldfinch just said and is it going to be the same is he going to control the means? so I believe that if you think of the internet in 1990 the comparison today is where we are as of night if as if we were in 1990 with a lot of Convergence of technologies that have been alluded to today. So if you think about computing We have computing large and small fast and everywhere if you think about sensors We have sensors everywhere in society They can sense almost anything we want to sense and we have the algorithms that can largely understand What's being sensed if you think not only of our ability to gather information from the environment But also the ability to act on the environment through robotics we have robots that can swim and hop and jump and fly and Again big and small they can reconfigure they can fly and swarms and so We have those robots We have lots of data that's being generated from all the computation from all the sensing and that data is available into in the Cloud and the AI technologies are allowing the sensors and the robots to make use of that the same way that we're making use of that Information and we've talked a lot about the network today. The network is being Enabling all of these Technologies to talk to each other and we have intuitive human interfaces And so those interfaces are allowing us as well as our technologies to access everything in the world It's going to be interconnected in a way like the internet is today it's going to be these devices and technology that's throughout the world and so from a positive perspective as Citizens it can help us in many ways because it enhances us as people now We have the ability to know about anything anywhere through the environment and even have the ability to act Because we have these intelligent devices that can like robots that can act for us at a distance even as a citizen I'm not talking about in the war fighting mode I'm talking about just the common citizen today in 20 years of the future and so because of all of these and the ability to interface with these in a very intuitive way I think that in 20 years. We will not recognize Society because of the sleep of technology and it's a confluence of all of these things happening now and available now And it's happening in the commercial world All right, Alan. It's happening in the commercial world in a very significant way of what Lynn just described in terms of The breadth and the depth of what's happening and then general gold fiends describing an effect on warfare Are those two things going to happen separately? Are they going to you know, how's this look going forward? You're the futurist in the group. How does it look? All right, well, let's just put the commercial dimension brilliantly I'd like to elaborate it on a bit and then come back to answering the question We're interested in disruption on this panel. We're interested in innovation But almost by definition these are inherently non-linear processes. They're unpredictable They display emergent properties. They display complexity. They display entanglement One aspect of the global technium that we observe today is a compression of the time constant Shrinkage of the time between basic research and application and technologies Increasingly driven in the commercial domain. If you look at the technologies of interest to the department Many of them are being advanced most aggressively by the commercial domain. That is inevitable and inexorable The challenge to come back to your question is for traditional defense industry to say wonderful How do I translate the implications of that technium into conventional capability for our military? And I think it's a challenge that we're embracing All right, Karen, I'm gonna ask you in just a minute. I want to quickly ask Fran so this Spanning of worlds what's the role of the University in doing that and how hard is it for you as Someone who's got a foot in both worlds to bring them together or is it not hard? I think you're looking at this future Yeah, right. I think it's a challenge and I and I think it's getting better because you look at the amount of money that the DoD or the IC or any of the federal civilian agencies spent on research and We're noticing that they're starting to gravitate towards building it themselves Towards more of that transitional focus, so I the trick becomes can you recognize a Gem and figure out how to transition it so I think most universities now have a transitional element Whether it starts out it becomes an FFRDC of a federally funded lab or it stays as a part of the University They're going to have some element now that tries to assist in that transition And you and I talked a couple of other things that affect that are large amounts of non-us citizens in our universities, right? Sometimes that works. Sometimes that doesn't work when you're in the military and less so in the IC And I think the other thing we're seeing is a large influx of veterans hitting our universities I know for for us at ASU there's three three to four thousand veterans in the program right now Different ages different experiences and some of them come back from service and say this happened to me in the service I'm a computer science person now. I'm just not going to let that happen I'm going to work on this a lot of times still cleared sometimes in the reserves And so I I think those are the three ways I see that the universities can contribute first is it offering the transition having that raw research but working with the and Realizing on this large veteran population that wants to change Maybe couldn't change the military when they were in there, but want to change now that they're out Karen I want to hear about your vision of the future and and of course you you know what France saying also should resonate with you So maybe a comment there, but I'm also going to put the follow-up question right out there for you So you can link at all which is? Secretary Carter loves Silicon Valley does Silicon Valley love him back You know we've got the die the DIUX we've got the digital the defense digital service The manufacturing innovation Institute. He's announced a number of new Institutions that are aimed at Strengthening that link. So what's your vision of the future and and do you think that? That push and you know, you're not off the hook on this either general Is it working is it going to work? Can it culturally work? Yeah, absolutely It's a great question and what pressure to be answering on behalf of Silicon Valley, right? And I should sorry I should clarify by the way that both Karen and Alan do not speak for their companies They're here in a personal capacity So you can't attribute something they're saying to Facebook or to Northrop Grumman you can attribute to Karen and to Allen The vision that the others have laid out I completely agree with and I think Especially with what Lynn was discussing about the emerge emerging world We're all living in where power is diffused and what we've got distributed networks. I think there's a real Risk of the military becoming reactive instead of proactive and that's why I think secretary Carter's Overtures to Silicon Valley are spot-on. I think a lot of people are noticing and I think there's a lot of energy there I do think from a personal standpoint There are a couple things that the Defense Department that other you know at the staff level at the senior leader level that the the military can do To harness the the momentum that Ash Carter has brought I think so One of the first ones is realizing that innovation isn't magic So I kind of sometimes feel like the department is treating it as such and I just think it's radical collaboration especially in centers of innovation like Silicon Valley, it's Radical collaboration and stepping outside of your comfort zone and it's non-linear as as you were saying what do you mean by radical collaboration? breaking down stovepipes Shedding you know in a way shedding the uniform shedding the persona of who you are and stepping into another shoes And collaborating where you haven't before Because in a world as Lynn described we're absolutely going to have to to get things done I think the other thing is a real translation of the problem you're trying to solve so I think what we run the risk of from coming from Washington out to a place like Silicon Valley is saying we're looking for new tech and People are kind of like well as a means to what and or if you say third offset Unfortunately, that might fall flat. So a better way to approach it might be Here's the problem. We're trying to solve because I think the common thread From the military from the government from tech is people who really want to tackle big problems and want to have an impact That's the common thread among those communities So I think rather than going out there with your fully baked strategy eight by ten glossy Go out there and whiteboard it out, you know Get in a room have a draft strategy and white whiteboard it out because that's really how things get done and that enhances that radical collaboration And then the last thing which you know not to get into the acquisition process because I think everything was said earlier today But I think approaching things from just getting rid of bad process when you can I mean that's what I've noticed In the tech community is there's not a lot of process and process is a four letter word So get rid of it kill it break rules where you can unless it's you know illegal Okay, so Let me lay those two things at your doorstep Which can you can I mean Can you break the process? Do you want to break the process? How much of your innovation dollars are locked up in legacy systems or in soon to be legacy systems How much flexibility does the air force really have? and then you know secondarily You know, I would be interesting to hear you comment too on how the air force Attracts and retains people like Karen current in yeah Well, first of all, it's exciting to have you sit next to Karen and see your title major air force reserves. How cool is that? And i'm actually a little bit hurt that 25 powerpoint slides doesn't work One of my one of my favorite stories actually Our our our leader of air force space command John heightened was out At a base up in lewis mccord, which is up in seattle right next to the silicon valley And he's pulling up into a parking lot and up pulls next to him as a tesla and out of the tesla Comes a senior airman in uniform And so he looks at the airman He looks at the car Looks at the airman says, okay diga me talk to me. What's going on here? In case you don't know an airman's salary would be a bit of a stretch for tesla. That's right And he said well, sir. He said I'm the I'm head of security for Google or so one of the major companies out there and he said but I want to serve And I want to make a difference exactly what you said And so I'm also in the air force reserves That's what it's all about The reality of what goes on to a large authentic silicon valley and I'm not an expert So Karen you can correct me 100 percent, but you know in facebook Your primary reporting mechanism is to the shareholders The united states air force our primary reporting is for the american people and the taxpayers through their elected leadership There therefore is a certain amount of oversight That we will always live with that may not be the same in silicon valley So it's different pacing right you have a you have a ability to perhaps move faster In silicon valley in some areas And we're going to be more methodical here in terms of how we're going to move forward as we continue to report on our process And so if you have two pacing strategies in two locations What happens when you put one plus one and how do we get to that to equal three? Because we leverage the strengths of the two systems And what we got to do in the air force and in the joint force is we got to be we got we got to be An organization that these young people want to join and be part of we got to create The the secretary calls it permeability, you know, we got to bust through some walls And make sure that we make the right thing easier For folks to come in and serve in the air force reserves or come in and work part time Come into the air force and serve some period of time and leverage that capability And we got to be able to make sure that's going both ways in a two-way street and a dialogue that goes back and forth So I think where the secretary has taken this is exactly right He he has acknowledged And helped us to understand the war for talent that we're in And we need the department of defense and I can certainly speak to the united states air force to say That we need to leverage that talent and that capability That's there to help us as we move forward at the same time Is looking at the way we do business that provides a lot of time some structure and some repeatability As we develop technology that can help silicon valley. So I think there's a two-way street here Yeah, I mean, I'm not wondering if those paths are are really ultimately reconcilable that you know, the whiteboarding hoodie You know Where where it's a flat organization if it's compatible And and again are your legacy big acquisition platforms compatible with this sort of dispersed and democratized Technology and I know alan has some thoughts on that and lin is it true that we're democratizing innovation and and that we're Um democratizing violence on some level you talked in very positive terms, but there's a downside too And is it are we dispersing and democratizing innovation? Not only innovation, but certainly the access to all these technologies as well We're making it so that it's it's very easy to use and that's a positive thing In the sense that we can have perhaps smarter cities because we can pool resources and have Governments and and individuals who can use information to do things like improve health care or Improve traffic congestion that sort of thing. So in that sense it brings it down to the individual And that there's many positive Outcomes of that and that's why there's commercial investment in these areas is because there are many commercial applications But these technologies are very much dual use in the sense that the technology that you develop for one application Has military application, but it also Can be used by militaries around the world and individuals around the world individual actors around the world So it is a An important challenge to to grasp with grapple with so i mean when we talk about Alan fran when we talk about offsetting And we usually mean adversaries are we really talking about offsetting everyone now I mean offsetting commercial development and the diffusion of innovation and the fact that it's available to everyone How do you offset that? I don't believe you do. I think you go out of your way to harness the outcome of that democratized technium or Technocracy, but I'll acknowledge it's challenging. I mean the very nature of the survey question Had a somewhat false dichotomy. We had artificial intelligence over here in synthetic biology over here. Why would we view them as distinct? I can see on the one hand why categorically you would but from the standpoint of innovation What happens when artificial intelligence begins to practice synthetic biology? We had george post up here earlier Noting that we now have high school students Creating synthetic organisms. They do there's an annual competition at i mit called i gem Founded by tom night. It's in its 11th year initially postdocs now high school students And if you look at some of the writings of In demonstrations actually a Craig ventner He articulates the concept of a transporter. Well, actually what he's doing is he's Communicating via rf or whatever other means the genetic sequence that he wants to replicate somewhere else on the planet Or on a different planet right because when he advanced the idea was from Mars to earth Why bring your life form from Mars to earth just being the genetic code back once you've sequenced it in situ right? So you take that kind of technology and one of the challenges we have is in the translation of genotype and defenotype And you turn the artificial intelligence loose on the problem right so the protein folding problem Maybe becomes trivial under the ages of machine learning And by way of an example, I'll highlight watson which has been mentioned on a number of occasions Uh, one of the things ibm did really almost as a publicity stunt after the jeopardy show Which itself was a kind of stunt it was to send watson to cooking school And they had watson survey all of the literature all of the recipes all of the writing on on cooking taste knows flavor notes human sensory perception all of that And then said okay watch and go create unusual recipes and of course watching combine things in a way that a human chef Would never have thought to combine and someone would turn out quite badly Uh, some of them were surprisingly good. What was extraordinary was the rate at which watson could do that And if you're interested in good amazon and i'm sure buy the book there's a watson cooks cookbook out there All right Now what happens when we apply that same technology, which is all done in funny games of watson To the identification of the appropriate genomes for denoval life forms Now so long as we're harnessing them in benefit of industrial application for the good for the health industry Wonderful, but as the points have been made Many of these technologies cut both ways. There is a black aspect of this that has to be taken into account So none of this is requirements based I'm not aware of any labs national labs working on that particular problem But the forces are in place to make an outcome of that nature And I emphasize that nature if not a detail Inevitable That should be of concern Um, you know Fran, uh, I mean, what do you think about that and especially I mean, how does this affect warfare So I think for 30 years I've been in defense. I think in the beginning we were technologically superior There is no question that DARPAs iARPAs we were so technically Superior that it didn't occur to us that it would it would level And and I think what we're looking at right now is a leveling of the technology playing field that I I can I I don't want to but I can build a bomb in my house. I can go look it up I can do these things and so goes to your point with anything that's good can be used for evil I think it's the speed of transition and I don't mean that acquisition look on that I don't want to reform acquisition I I don't know how some of those people working on that take take that right that's a very difficult job But I think you got you have to have people who strategically think who are willing to look at the big picture And say I recognize what this is this is an insider threat This is an IED and be able to react and and take evasive action And that's not easy to train And so I within the university systems within I'm sure you as well at NSF The air force trying to train people to think that way is is fairly difficult And so that's that's one of the things we're looking at that ability to have people strategically think but still line up And and and still you know, uh, be able to function as part of a larger organization So I I definitely agree that the good and evil thing is is very scary. I think I'd like to give the audience a chance to ask questions. So if you have a question, please raise your hand and Make sure you identify yourself in your affiliation and make sure it's a question because I may seem nice But I will cut you off if you go on So Please this gentleman right here Karen while we're waiting just tell me what a day is like at work at facebook relative to The air force Oh, wow. Um, well, so I've been off active duty now for nine years. Do you remember but I remember remember it well and Yes, I think if you're coming from the military you are optimized for hierarchy. It's just in your nature That's how you're trained So a transition to facebook even though I've worked in a lot of other great places It has been a challenge and I'm not a digital native. I'm not a millennial So that's a challenge too. I'm like one of the oldest people there The ceo is younger than me But um, it's uh, it is very flat. It is very fast-paced. It is uh, very collaborative and They do move fast and and break things as part was part of the values, but they're very much like hey, let's just move fast um So I think to fran's point about that being ready for that that type of thinking that strategic thinking What we it come into contact with every day is just ambiguity and complexity So being ready to think in that way. There is no process that you can rest upon. There's no legislative process There's no, you know budgeting process There there's not necessarily a process that you can fall back on and where there is it's pretty You know, it's a guideline So it's up to you to create a taxonomy Create the guidelines create that and we're constantly doing that from scratch which and to respond to To the users so it's not just the shareholders. It's the 1.5 billion people as well All right, sir, please. Yes, uh, paul joyl in a sign Um General you were talking about all the tremendous technology with our new fighters Recall to mind that during the Crimea operation. There was an article Suspect source in in russia that said a fencer aircraft had gone over um Conducted a simulating bombing run over a ages cruiser in the black sea and had Detonated an EMP device which rendered the entire Um capabilities of of the of the cruiser And it had to return to base in romania So what are and and you're talking network network network? So what happens if there's let's say a significant space event? Where there's a huge EMP burst that starts frying everything out there or In combat EMP technology is used To take away the advantages that we have as this very marvelous high tech Cutting-edge society and military. Okay. What are we doing? You know to protect what we're building the old days we had tempests and we had a lot of other things But what are we doing now? Yeah, that's a great question So i'm reminded of my combat commander boss general jim mattis United states marine corps Who used to look at all of us and I was his air component commander And of course I had a counter power for each of the domains land component marine component soft component And he would get us together and he said don't tell me you can't fight without communications wrong answer Come up with backup and backup to your backup and make sure that you have a layered plan And so we worked out pretty hard To ensure that if in fact, you know conflicted breakout in the middle east And we had someone that came after the network That we had a layered plan to be able to continue to operate All be it perhaps at slightly degraded level until we got the network full backup and running But to never place ourselves in a situation Where one attack on the network could take us all out So that's the way we approach it. It's a layered defense You you identify the most critical systems that you rely on The critical You know indications and warnings the critical satellite capabilities and you ensure that those are the most protected And then it layers out from there so that you can still continue to operate And then while it takes you time to get back up full up and operating you never get to the point where you're to stand still This is a question for a general gold find in major currington and any others. Um My son graduated from the air force academy last year He's a physicist 61 d. Um, he's at afit now getting his masters in astrophysics What would you tell him and his colleagues young second lieutenants? What do they need to be doing now to prepare for future warfare and to optimize their contributions to the air force and the military? Yeah, first of all, congratulations to your son physics philosophy 3.8 four stars 1.9 Yeah, by the time I got my diploma, I think the speaker had already left So first of all, I would tell your son that it all starts with character And so he's on a journey For the remainder of his career, whether it stays in the air force or he goes on to to some other service organization That we are on a lifelong journey to continue to develop our character Sometimes we get focused on reputation as we get moving through the ranks And and we get a little bit confused with character and reputation Right characters who we are every day and what we do when no one's watching Reputation is what people think of us after they've watched us for some period of time I will tell you a son focused on the first The second will take care of itself It's all about character, you know, we We as the uniformed military We all know are among the most trusted organization in the United States government And there's a reason for that I'm also reminded that America is in love with its with your son And America is in love with the young enlisted men and women that I'm privileged to work with and lead America is not in love with this gentle officer core America expects me to be a man of character and lead your son well And so I would say that's the most important thing I'd tell your son far Long before we started talking about mission or technology or anything else because if he takes care of that The rest is going to fall in place And but and also I mean so are there any hope for philosophy majors these days or if you're not an astrophysicist You're out of luck in the future. I mean I was a political philosophy major. I don't tell people at work that What you just did I Well to your question I would agree with the general about absolutely the the fundamentals and the character and that will serve him well No matter where he goes Uh, this is going to come across as very cynical, but I would also say with that background He should serve and then at some point go start a company, you know, like the world is his oyster You know, that's that's kind of what I've seen is think big Just you know follow your passions and think big and if you find a problem and you want to go solve it Especially with his background and and don't be afraid to do it while you're still serving in some way. Um, I mean that's That is the world that we've enabled Where you can harness technology and create it for good But you can also go out and do a lot of that good in the commercial sector, too We now understand the kind of person that Northrop's looking for what kind of person these days Are you recruiting? Oh, we're recruiting. Yeah, I know I'm sure but I mean especially you as a people do our website I mean especially use a strategist and a futurist. What what do you what do you need? creativity initiative energy drive The ability to collaborate, I mean as we well know from the ethos in the valley collaboration is everything We believe very strongly on that No one person has the right answer It's remarkable the creativity that occurs when you get the right three four or five people in a room And they begin arguing over access to the whiteboard More of that would be a beautiful thing And we hire from all domains, right? Creativity a good idea doesn't know a particular academic discipline Well, I mean You're both engineers. We're belong to engineers now. I mean, is it just I agree with all the comments here. I will put in a plug though as a computer scientist For the the young people out there not to be afraid of of technology and it actually I think it is a national security issue Because if you look at our graduate programs, they're majority foreign nationals. And so we need more American born people to go into the the high tech fields because there's a lot of opportunity And there is really a lack of of people going into those fields insufficient Go ahead And then I'm I'm going to ask one closing question because we're just about out of time So I won't tip you off what it is yet. Amy Nelson the council on foreign relations and I was a philosophy major Wow, we have a preponderance, right? So, uh, he talked about the inevitable diffusion of of these new technologies and the distribution of innovation and it knows no boundaries And presumably we have a responsibility to armor soldiers on the battlefield with the latest and greatest most cutting-edge technology But is there ever a responsibility to hold back or to slow the pace of innovation? And secondly, um Uh, presumably we learned a lesson with with cyber where the technology evolved way before our defenses did Are we developing countermeasures to these new technologies simultaneously? And what does that look like? That's a great question. Yeah So we withhold technology every day in this fight So in each uh in each fighter aircraft that's flying today over Iraq and syria There's a button on the control stick we call it the pickle button and it's what you actually press when you release munitions And we like to say there's half an inch from hero to zero Because every munition that's dropped is a strategic weapon And we're going to hit everything we aim at based on the technology that's at our disposal For a precision guided weapons And when you're a young aviator Every fiber in your being wants to go close with and destroy the enemy And it is through the discipline and training that we have worked into this young force That allows them to withhold ordinance when it just doesn't seem right When it just doesn't you know, you it just doesn't feel right There's something that you're seeing in the display that doesn't seem appropriate for what you're trying to do And so we bring a lot of weapons home But we've acknowledged the fact that in terms of that technology the bomb you don't drop Sometimes is as important as the one you do And so I think that's just one small aspect of how we have capable. We have we have technology at our fingertips today That we withhold because there still is chivalry and discipline in how we apply warfare that fighter pilot culture is really existential for the air force Is it a barrier to becoming to adopting the kinds of innovations that the panel has been talking about It's so individual that I don't think you can I don't think we can do a broad brush You know because the I mean you sort of think about What it takes to be able to strap on a high performance aircraft and operate at the speed of sound You've got to be a World-class athlete right to be able to sustain Nine times the weight of gravity as you be able to continue to manipulate all the sensors in the aircraft You've got to be able to think not only for your own aircraft because if you're focused on what's going on inside your cockpit You're way behind you got a hundred aircraft out there that you're thinking about You've got to be able to Have the right amount of aggressiveness to close with and destroy the enemy and and know that That You'll live with those decisions And then you've also got to have the discipline to withhold ordinance that we just talked about All that comes together in order to Create the individual that we need To be able to go and do that business I'm not so sure that within that It will you'd find I think you would find those in that business that can be Very innovative and those that may be not so innovative, but I think there's a full spectrum We are out of time And it is time for the reception. I just want to ask a last yes or no question, which is War has driven innovation for most of our history And other things have too, but war has been an important force for innovation. Is innovation going to drive war? Going forward is innovation going to decide the character of war so Fran, what do you think? I think yes Yes, I think clearly yes Yes Maybe no Now you can come up and ask him why he thinks maybe afterwards. Thank you all very much