 Think Tech Hawaii, civil engagement lives here. Aloha, and welcome back to Talk Story with John Wahee. This afternoon I have, as my guest, one of my favorite people, J. Fidel himself. Hi, Governor. From Think Tech, oh, Think Tech Hawaii. I need to say that slowly, more often, you know, I could never do the pick a pepper thing even. But anyway, and today our topic is we are going to try and not predict, but talk about forecast, I guess, politics for next year, both on the state and federal level and with just in general. And I thought that J would be the ideal person for this, because as a co-host on these programs, he likes to take on various kinds of political issues. So and especially, well, we'll start on the national level, especially the President of the United States. We had a lot of fun these past two years talking about our President, J. And what's your conclusion? Would you vote for him now? Oh, no. Oh, no, no. You know, it's so funny. You wake up, I mean, just when you think that the tweets can't get any worse, he comes out and he calls a witness that is, you know, cooperating with law enforcement. He calls him a rat. And you know, what are you saying to something like that? And at what point does the call mean anything? I think it was at Times pointed out that that's a word they use in the underworld. Well, practically everybody's been pointing that out, you know? That's what Gotti would say about the FBI informer, you know? A question, I think, is he's had a lot of trouble with people turning on him. And it has been going well for him. He lost ground in the Saudi Arabia issue with the Senate. And the, you know, the midterms didn't work the way he wanted. And so the question is, is his credibility, his power undermined to the extent that in 2019 we're going to see him, you know, get fragmented, well, more fragmented, to see him lose his influence over the base and over the Republican Party. You know, personally, I don't think so in terms of the overall base. Because I think there are a lot of people out there who, for various reasons, maybe totally unrelated to his behavior, agree with his policies. And you know, there is a kind of, there are a lot of, I guess what you would call them is a nativitis, or people who, you know, don't like immigration. They want America to be an America that probably never actually existed, you know? And so they see him as the bullock against change. And, you know, and he is. He's out there doing what they expect of him. The rest of the country is going, you know, crazy. And the polls are actually showing, though, that he's losing some of the base. But he's keeping a core. He's keeping a core. Yeah. Just like he doubles down on some of the things he's said, some of the really indefensible things he's said, they seem to double down on it, too. And that's very troubling because, you know, when you have a conversation with somebody like that, you really can't convince them. It's not even a rational conversation. And so I think there's a lot of people in this country, the base, nearly all of it, as we saw it before, that are going to support him no matter what he does, including shooting somebody on Fifth Avenue. Yeah. And I don't know why that is. I'm still, do you have an answer? I'm still wrestling with why people, an individual person or a group of people would do that. When they know that he's been acting badly and they continue to double down on what he's saying. Well, I think there are like three different categories, at least, you know, of different groupings. And at least some of the people, well, there are, for instance, I believe, a lot of what I would consider actually good people. I have a sister-in-law and a brother-in-law who are totally enamored with it, not enamored. They actually would wish that he didn't misbehave. But because their religious viewpoints sort of align with his actions, meaning their idea of what is moral and what is not in terms of abortion or other issues like that. Just believe that he's the person for them. And so you have that grouping. And I point out to them all the time that, yes, but the way he acts and the way he does it just doesn't comport with the rest of the beliefs that they have as good religious people. And, you know, their defense is sort of interesting because they point out, they say something, well, you don't know what kind of instrument God would use. And that's where I lose the argument. That's where we're stretching it. You know, I lose the argument because I know at that point, all right, let's just have a great Thanksgiving dinner, you know. I'm not going to even talk about it. Sorry, why is that, John? You know, it's just, I don't want to challenge that. But there are those people. Now, I think that some of them are also starting to realize that maybe this is all a scam. So you've got that group, you know? Then you've got the other group, which is totally self-interested. I mean, this is all about business and the business that they happen to be in. Not necessarily business in general. And because some of his policies regarding foreign trade really hurt the American business, like the automobile manufacturers and the beef producers and farmers and many people actually. But where they do benefit, they're very strongly supported. And then there's the third group, which is sort of, you know, falling apart. We're just, okay, we've got to protect our positioning. We're Republicans. We got to do it. So I don't know how you say that, but he seems to hold on to his faith pretty well. I just don't understand it. And I'm reluctant to have a conversation with somebody head on, although maybe it needs that. I would love one. If any Trump person is out there, I took on Duke Iona, but that was when Trump was just beginning. So maybe now, I don't know exactly where he stands, but he's got a radio show. So we had fun. You know, we did that exchange here on this show, and then we did it on his radio show. And I wonder if he would have the same zeal now as he had then, especially after all the... Well, look at what's coming out about Russia. Even if Trump, I mean, as a patriot, as a patriot, we all ought to be, as patriots, we all ought to be concerned. And I'm, thank you, by the way, for letting me turn you into the host of this all day. Sure, sure, sure. You know... It's just a conversation. As a patriot, we ought to be really concerned when the FBI, when whatever Trump's actual direct involvement might have been, there is no doubt that the Russians use social media to tear up this country. To tear up this country. Right during the last election, they were sending lies, essentially, to, for example, black voters about why they should stay home and not vote for Hillary and things that were being done. They were sending all kinds of propaganda to various groups who are actually being negatively affected by his policies and getting them not to vote. It's like suppression, really. Well, it was suppression. And what's surprising about this is that he made that into such an issue, and it turns out the only people that have been suppressing voters are Republicans. In various states, or that have been suppressing the will of voters, like in Wisconsin, where you change the rules after an election in a lame duck session. That was incredible. You know, how do you do that and get away with it? It's just raw power, you know? So what do you think of Mulvaney? What's he going to do for us, or what does he do for Trump? That's a better question in 2019. They've had a lot of revolving door-type chiefs of staff over there. Is this going to be any better? Well, I tell you what, I think, despite all of our feelings about President Trump and what he's done and what he may do in the future, the average person, most people, really would not want anything bad to happen to the country. So just like when his prior chief of staff came in, there's a lot of hope that maybe this one might sort of right the ship, might sort of do something. And he seems to have at least the experience and the skills. I mean, he's very highly taught of as an operative, as a functionary, as a technocrat. And there's some hope that his no-nonsense style, you know, would affect this presidency. So he's coming in with a lot of cautious goodwill. I hope so. I mean, it is reminiscent of some of the others in the past when they came in. Everybody said, you know, Kelly's strong. He's going to shape Trump up. He's going to make sure there's discipline in the White House. Hopefully he's going to contain some of these tweets. He's going to give some real valuable advice and it will be strong advice to Trump and improve Trump's administration. But that didn't happen. Yeah, well, you know, and one of the interesting questions for 2019, what happens to Kelly now? Does Kelly come out and say something eventually? Or Prius, for that matter? You know, the prior Kelly chief of staff. You know, do they eventually come out and say what he would really like for the good of the country? You know, there is a hope. There's a hope among some conservative Republicans that somehow somebody contained the awful excesses of this presidency. Or in a way, you know, there was an article written and I'm trying to remember who wrote it about the fact that Donald Trump may actually be George Bush with bad manners. You know, a lot of his policies where the rubber meets the road kind of thing are really conservative Republican policies. Now, they happen to be on the far end of the conservative spectrum, but they're in the spectrum. That's my point. And I don't think that's true because I think Bush was actually much closer to being moderate than this president. But the idea that his policies by themselves are extremely... I think they're awful because I disagree with them, but I don't think that they are necessarily out of the spectrum. You know, Trump, I think Trump has done more damage, more damage to international relations. Well, that's where the rubber hits the road. Yeah, I agree with you. More damage to, you know, the country's sense of self-morality, the country's sense of being a welcoming, Statue of Liberty kind of country. Well, I don't even... I don't know about you, but I don't even recognize that this country is the country that I learned about in the 4th, 5th, 6th grade. It's all different. It's completely different. And I think Trump has done a lot to undermine our notion of representative government of democracy. It's not always that he did it himself, but that he encouraged other people to do it. Well, that's probably one of the more lasting effects. But look, we're going to take a short break now, and we will be right back to talk a little bit about the national scene and where go with our president, and maybe get to see where go with Hawaii under the newly elected or re-elected governor and state legislators. And aloha, my name is Calvin Griffin, the host of Hawaii in Uniform. And every Friday at 11 o'clock here on Think Tech Hawaii, we bring you the latest on what's happening within the military community. And we also invite your response to things that's happening here. For those of you who haven't seen the program before, again, we invite your participation. We're here to give information, not disinformation. And we always enjoy response from the public. But join us here, Hawaii in Uniform. Fridays, 11 a.m. here on Think Tech Hawaii. Aloha. Aloha. I'm Wendy Lo, and I'm coming to you every other Tuesday at 2 o'clock, live from Think Tech Hawaii. And on our show, we talk about taking your health back. And what does that mean? It means mind, body, and soul. Anything you can do that's your body healthier and happier is what we're going to be talking about, whether it's spiritual health, mental health, fascia health, beautiful smile health, whatever it means. Let's take healthy back. Aloha. And welcome back to Talk Story with John Wahee. We are talking to guests, guest co-hosts, conversational friend, and the rest of it, Jay Fidel today. By the way, if anybody out there has a question for either of us, call us at 808-374-2014. Oh, I'll do it again. 808-374-2014. You know, we talked about Trump, and sometimes people like you and I get so involved with our Trumpite conversations that we don't really ask another question, and that is, so what should the loyal opposition do about it? What should Democrats do? One of the most interesting statistics I just saw today was that the popularity of the Democratic Party, people who strongly support them in this Trumpian era, is just about 3% higher than those that support the Trump. And so you have this, and the only difference is there, you know, with the Republicans and Donald Trump, there's a slight, there's a higher negative. I think it's 43 or something like that through 36 for Republicans. But the Democrats are like 39% support, and 35%, you know, you're not doing a good job anyway. So here we, you know, this is our state of our country. So what should a party that's supposed to be, you know, what should they do? How do we get into a thing where the Democrats can't get together like this? I think it's because of the phenomenon at the Trump election, where Russia and others were trying to divide and create divisiveness around the country among various groups. And I think we're still suffering from that. And we're suffering from what he's been doing in terms of dividing the country. So the result is that even the Democrats have been affected. They've been divided. They've been divided. They've been divided among themselves, between themselves. Even you saw Nancy Pelosi had a little trouble getting it together. Well, there are a lot of new Democrats who think Nancy Pelosi might be, apparently, the same old, same old, you know? But I don't think people... I don't think people recognize the need, the value of getting together. I don't think they recognize, you know, the old Ben Franklin thing about, we've got to hang together or we'll hang separately. And so the result is that... But are they going to be any better? You know, well, here we are. Just politically speaking, a child died just last week, I think it was. A seven-year-old. A seven-year-old child because of the inhuman treatment that we are, you know, doing to people who are seeking asylum in the great America. Right? And yet, as awful as that is, you know, it got to raise some shackles and everything. Nothing changes. So where's the check and balance in all of this? Where are the policies that can reach over to the people that are, you know, currently dissatisfied but find themselves nonetheless supporting Trump? I think the Democrats have to find a leader. And I like to mention a name. Sure. Beto O'Rourke. Oh. Beto O'Rourke. I see his name coming up more often all the time. And when he speaks and the media is going after him for soundbites because he really gives good soundbites, I think, and he lost, of course, in Texas, but he's a winner. And the dynamics of that election were a little strange. But in the future, I think you're going to see him like a snowball gaining speed all the time. But isn't that, in a way, the symptom of what's wrong with the Democratic Party, that you have to reach out and get somebody who lost an election and call him a savior? Call him a savior. Or you've got to deal with a Cortez. You think he might be a savior? Yeah. And I find her very interesting. And I love somebody who fights like her. But I also know that at least of this moment, 80% of the country would not support her. So what does this say about our democracy? Well, it needs a leader. It needs a leader. And Trump is not going to lead the whole country. The best he can do is 30%. So who is coming along here who will be able to mount the real campaign in 2020 and give him a run for his money and beat him? We don't have anybody. And the question is, how does the process work to emerge? Well, last time, there were so many people on the stage. And then we made this huge, gigantic mistake of letting him be elected. What about now? Do we actually, you know, Jesse Jackson, who's a friend of mine and who I actually never voted for on the national level because he was running against some of the people I thought would be really good, used to say over and over again that when we say we need a leader, we are really giving up the victory already. What we need to create is a leadership, which he described as having leaders come together like planks on a boat or a ship, and develop something that has some kind of momentum more than being based on some... More than a popularity contest. ...or on personality. But one of the things about Trump's, the Trump phenomenon is he's created, I think, a personality-based politic. Absolutely. And so we, by the way, I love veto, you know, and I broke a cardinal rule. I actually contributed to his campaign. See, that's the cardinal rule. I'll give you a little insight. Cardinal rule for politicians is, you know, you never, you always ask for money. You never actually give it away, you know? But I did that. I did that because I really thought that he would be a good person. But, you know, is it something more? One strategic move, and what do we do? Well, in order to develop a leadership, I know that Clinton, for example, took over the... What was it? Americans for Democratic Action, I think it was cool. And actually created a basis. In a way, Trump inherited that. He inherited that and used it to his advantage tremendously. Not the Americans for Democratic Action, but he inherited a kind of leadership base with all the, what would it be called, the moral majority and the rest of... Oh, boy, how can I forget this? The Tea Party. Tea Party, which was the result of all kinds of actions. Can a party so splintered, like the Democratic Party, go beyond the idea that diversity is good and actually show us how coming together is even better? I agree. Solidarity is better. Solidarity is even better. That's what it needs. And if better is the one, then what has to happen is the Democratic Party has to get behind him. And people have to say it's really valuable that we all get on the same page here. And if he looks like a good candidate, let's all back him up. And then you have the likelihood that he will surface as a Democratic candidate and he'll run. And he's very good. He can deal with the kind of stuff that Trump puts out. He can run a campaign. And the problem with the campaign with Trump is if you're weak, Trump will find the weakness. He did that with Hillary Clinton. He found the weakness in every engagement. Yeah. And he revealed it. And he was, you know, his criticisms and his tweets and all that, very damaging to her. And she didn't know, in my view, she didn't know how to deal with that. I think O'Rourke would know how to deal with that. Well, okay. You know, but then we have, and I'm kind of going through history a lot to say, but then we have Will Rogers, one of the famous comedian in the 30, who said, you know, what was it that he said? It says something all about, you know, I'm a Democrat, which means that I really have no party. I mean, I just, we enjoy fighting with each other, you know? And so that's our strength. And I don't know. It seems like we have all these constituents and they just all over the place. So I hope you're right. I hope you're right. Now, what about impeaching Trump? Is that something the Democrats ought to do? They can't get the numbers, can they? Well, let's see. You know, should they even try? Well, one commentator on NPR the other day said, there's only one thing worse than an impeachment. It's a failed impeachment. Well, yeah. It's a charge to people who've tried. Unless you are Bill Clinton. It was a good thing that happened. You know, and if you're Andrew Johnson, he's a lucky biker. But you lost, you know? Not everybody's going to go down like Richard Nixon. And the point, though, I think for many Democrats, is they're always wondering whether or not on the policies or whether Vice President Pence would actually be better. You know? And why not just wait it all out and let Trump disappear by himself? You think that Pence would necessarily... You know, it's not really the same Bola Wax. What I mean is you have to measure each president on his own merits. Well, one thing about Pence... And worry about Pence later. What I come up with is that when Mueller finally issues his report, which may not be right away, it's going to be pretty tough on Trump. And it's going to be, at that point, we're all going to be, I think, surprised. And we're going to have to measure Trump as to whether he is fit to lead or has done things that are so bad that are, you know... Well, impeachable. Okay. Well, I don't know. And we'll see what the future brings for us. Unfortunately, we're almost out of time and we didn't get to Hawaii and Hawaii's problems. Another time in another show. Yeah, it's going to be really interesting to see how this unfurls, because they are, I just saw an article, people who are suggesting that it's better to let Trump stay in office and then just indict him the day he leaves office. But that's, you know, that's maybe wishful thinking by another commentator. Folks, thank you very much for tuning in with us. It was a fun session. I want to thank my co-host, guest, Jay Fidel, and invite you all back to join us again with Talk Story with John Whyay.