 are about to be. First and foremost, who left their cell phone here? Free phone calls for me. Okay, I'm gonna do a quick introduction. I'm Agent X, aka Jesse Kremse. I'm the president and co-founder of the Hacker Foundation and let me talk to about some of the people that are here. This is Jim Schuyler. He's from, he's our operative in Uganda right now. This is Nick Farr. He's our accountant and registered CPA or he's working on it very hard. That's Frasier Cunningham. You've probably seen him around, aka Nolton. He's our secretary and I think I just outed him. That's Locke. Can I use your real name? Okay, that's Stephen Kirk. He runs all the networks here at Def Con. You got Wi-Fi? It's because you got Locke. This man right here, he works for, I, no that's not Louise. That's Christian. I'm just gonna give this cell phone to some guy. So, and then that's Jennifer at the end and that man in between who I haven't talked to a lot. He's gonna be talking about one of our projects in Chicago and this man bringing me water here is Code 24 who's a stalwart friend. Thank you very much. So here's our quick history of the Hacker Foundation and where we've been and where we're going kind of thing. In 1996, Major Malfunction, one of the head speaker goons, or one of the head goons and who's currently speaking another track and can't be here, went to Sarajevo to set up a BBS to help the people that were trapped in their apartments by snipers. A BBS in a war-torn area is a pretty useful tool because you know you need to know where you can get water, where you can get, you know it's safe to travel and so on and so forth. He's the one in the middle and so he told me about this prior to DEF CON 9. It's been rattling around my head. I'm like whoa that's so cool flying to war-torn areas, set up network equipment. Yeah! So the so that rattled around my head and I thought about that for a while and then Nick and I were tending borrow for at Caesars one night and this is how I met Nick and he was he was helping me out and I was like wow Nick's a really cool guy, he's really on it and he's way more organized than me and the next day we were up on top of the Alexis Park playing with one of Uncle Iris' sat phones and we were talking about that and we thought this was a great tool, it's really awesome. We were playing with the satellite equipment, we thought this was really awesome, we were like what could we do with this and we were thinking about something called the DC Sands Frontier at the time, Doctors Without Borders and that was like yeah hackers without borders, that won't scare anyone and so we kind of toned it down a little at that time and we decided to call it Hackers for Humanity and we talked about a little and that was about where we left it and then at DEF CON 10 I sent out a mailing to DC forums and we got a bunch of people together, he's one of them, to talk about what Hackers for Humanity is going to be, what this means and we went over to Metro Pizza which has these huge white paper table cloths and ideas were flying just fast and furious about what Hackers for Humanity should be, should be this, should be that. We really came out of this mean with two things or three things, a long possible list of activities, a lot of energy and priests said something that was really important which was if you want to make it real you got to make it formal so we started to do that. Nick and I before DEF CON 11 exchanged boat loads of email talking about what Hackers for Humanity should be and how we could help all these people. Yeah and it was like oh this is really confusing, totally nuts so what we did was we kind of came up with this idea of a hacker foundation and that's an overarching organization, it's an umbrella for all other activities that you want to do and we call these activities projects, yes with that kind of umbrella. And then so we get together DEF CON 11 we talk and then immediately afterward Nick goes back to California and files the paperwork to make us a California Benefit Corporation, Public Benefit Corporation in California. This is really important, this is the state level exempt status and then we go okay this is great, we get that, we file that in August, we get that on Christmas of 2003, Christmas Eve to be specific a nice little gift from the government. Well that's a long time that's just an idea about how slow this bureaucracy moves and then we decide okay we're going to go for the big kahuna 501C3 status tax exempt federal government our friends the IRS. Yeah they're actually really great because they're like yeah we can do that for you so we file our paperwork with them shortly before our first presentation at DEF CON 12 and at DEF CON 12 we kind of gave a lot of people a little twangment turbo talk hint about what we were going to be doing and where we were at which was in waiting mode. Shortly thereafter we got our paperwork, it's in process, in April we get a call back from the IRS, that's a fair ways off it's like with 10 months roughly after we filed our paperwork before we heard from them and they had some questions about us and they talked to us about you know we had some very idealistic ideas about what our goals should be and you know we thought it would be really easy you know we'd get all this money from Cisco, we'd get all this money from everybody and we'd get network equipment, we'd load it on a plane, we'd fly to some God forsaken place that needs help, we'd help them and then we'd be back by you know Friday afternoon for beer. I mean come on that's what every NGO and nonprofit agency does right? Well it's not that sexy and Nick's gonna talk about not that sexy for me. Thanks Jesse. One of the things the IRS asked us to do when they sent a letter back in response to our initial application was outline some of the things we're going to do. The tax law here is very specific, there are very certain things that you can do there's structures for churches, structures for schools and what we want to do is we want to be the nonprofit organization for the community. Coming up in the speech a little bit later you're gonna hear a lot about some really exciting projects, things going on in Uganda, things going on in Chicago and Frazier is gonna do a little brief about how we want to get you involved and how we'd like to give your projects a little bit of legitimacy in terms of federal tax on to be able to offer tax deductible status for donations of people give your products projects. The first goal that we have of course to get the ball rolling and we've started doing it the step con is to raise money over the past year the hacker foundation has been running largely through the generosity of the people on our board the directors the people who are here from day one and raising money is hard you know when we thought oh it's gonna be gloriful it's gonna be great just like Jesse was saying the first step to any project that you want to do is raising the funds to be able to go do it and that's hard it's hard to ask people for money they're wondering what are they getting in exchange in exchange what we'd like to be able to do is involve the community more we have an application on our website hackerfoundation.org basically any almost any open source coding project almost any robotics project almost anything that has some kind of charitable aspect or some kind of charitable bent to it can get tax exempt status through the hacker foundation and one of our goals is to be able to develop and to take anybody in the community who's interested in that interested in raising more money interested in building capacity and get them involved and get people networking and that's the leads into the third goal what we're doing building infrastructure for the future getting everybody network getting everybody together hacker foundation handling the paperwork to free you guys up to do the intellectual things but I'd like to get right now to Jim's project you the organic computer initiative it's a really exciting talk. Hi good afternoon I'm Jim Schuyler and I'm the East Africa Regional Coordinator for the Hacker Foundation and my project is UCI or the Uganda Computer Initiative. This is the prototype project of hackers for humanity which is the humanitarian arm of the hacker foundation. Just about a month ago I returned from a three months long stay in Hema Uganda where I was working as an open volunteer with local and international aid organizations providing technical support and training at health clinics community-based organizations and internally displaced people's camps. Uganda is in a word paradise in seven words paradise with a bombstrap to it. When I first traveled to Uganda in 1999 I was captivated the landscape was lush green perfects the people were warm generous hospitable kinds with what little they had they would give me food and welcome me into their homes. You know the British actually have called Uganda the pearl of Africa which is ironic because you won't find a single dam oyster in the entire country and Tanzania's got diamonds but they didn't get a sweet nickname. My godparents are Ugandan and they met my father and mother while they were studying in Pennsylvania in the late 80s and when I turned 16 my father told me that it was time for me to go visit them. So 30 or so hours of planes trains and automobiles and we were in Africa. Now as will happen with idealistic wide-eyed young men who see true beauty for the first time in their lives I fell in love. I was completely set. I had spent most of my youth in suburban America playing video games skateboarding and I never got caught. And being in Africa really changed me it was it was sort of one of those times where you just know you're gonna wind up somewhere for the rest of your life and as fate would have it it looks like I'll be able to. You know it's under a shirt. I don't have a slide for this one sorry. Yeah I'm bad at this. Yeah actually this is the largest group of white people I have seen in about a year. I'm a little creeped out right now. I apologize. Now I mean sure even when I went there at 16 there's been a civil war raging in the north of the country for about 20 years it's still going. There were tanks upended in ditches. You know kids running around with dirty shirts and bare feet and somehow you know even though you couldn't drink the water it was perfect. It was just absolutely perfect. And you know really Uganda is a country in a state of flux. Corruption, civil war, hunger and disease are realities in Uganda. During my first week of my recent stay I got malaria and for those of you who have not had malaria yet you are not missing out on much just delete that from your list of priorities and move on to the next one like typhoid. You know and even most of the roads are still unpaved in Uganda. Transport is long arduous. Power is intermittent. Hardline data connections are unreliable and few and far between. But still you know it's kind of needless to say that my blog missed an update for a week or two and I think I might have missed a couple of my space invites. But where those limitations might seem to create closed doors wireless mesh networks are starting to pop up all across even the remote regions of the country. Expansive GSM coverage really is incredible. You see because hardline data connections are nearly impossible to keep active and running what the Ugandan's in cooperation with a lot of South African telecom companies did was set up wireless towers all across the country. I mean I could literally get a clear I could get a clear signal in the middle of nowhere in Huyma. I could get a clear signal than I could in downtown Chicago. It was incredible and so instead of just sort of going with traditional methods of connectivity they're really branching out into new and incredibly just exciting means of creating communication. You'll even see internet cafes in little one room storefronts. They're you know on satellite phones they're irregularly connected poor administration doesn't matter they're there and Ugandan's are going through their very own electronic revolution. You'd be amazed by how many are taught to type in their primary school education system and they are now using email. I don't think many of them have picked up on Friendster but they definitely are communicating with each other within country. Now as well as regular citizens non-government organizations like the Danish the Danish cooperative for international development MS the United Nations Humanitarian and Children's Relief Fund and the International Medical Corps all three of whom I've worked with are starting to take advantage of these incredible new technologies and to improve their communication and really streamline their methods of just connectivity and productivity. They're also using them to preserve client records which is a problem they've been really struggling with for years. The big problem that I discovered while I was working in country was that the organizations are relying the people on the ground you know in the remote districts are relying on outdated hardware and software. I mean woefully outdated hardware and software. For example I've been working with a community-based organization the Heuma Nursery School Nursery School Development Association or H&SDA extensively for the past two months or so and H&SDA relies on its computers to create teaching materials and keep both its financial and client records for hundreds of nursery school teachers in Western Uganda. That's two of them actually and when I first started with H&SDA only one of their three office machines was up and running and what was it running you might ask? Windows 95 on a Pentium 2 with 48 megs of memory a completely shot hard drive and no CD-ROM and this was the best that they could get out to them. I'm not kidding this is the best. Another example is HADFA the Heuma District Farmers Association. Now HADFA uses its computers to create databases of clients very remote clients these people have no other means of connectivity except for the sort of general addresses that are used. I got a little click happy there sorry. And when I went to work with them all four of their donated office computers were completely shot all four of them completely shot by does anyone remember the hurry virus? I think McAfee 98 successfully took care of it for most of us two days. What happens is that because so few Ugandan's own computers they take flash drives and floppy disks and can keep all of their own records all of their correspondence all their email logs everything and they just carry them around with them in pockets on chain drives and then they go anywhere that they know there's a printer and plug it in and so viruses are passed around like crazy because they don't know how viruses are transmitted. And because there are so few IT professionals available in Uganda these NGOs and CBOs suffer. This is not to say that there are no IT professionals in Uganda it's just that they're even more expensive than they are here. And the more I worked with these organizations I mean they're dedicated incredible people who are doing good work the more I realized that they needed a durable sustainable solution to their IT problems and this is how the Ugandan computer initiative was born. The primary objective of UCI is to provide an open source solution to the technological challenges NGOs and their subsidiary CBOs face on a daily basis. We want to also simultaneously provide training and resource materials to these staffers we're talking about the Ugandan's themselves so that they can become self-reliant so they no longer have to rely on these IT professionals who are overcharging them you know the cost just for transport from the major city of Kampala is ridiculous they cannot afford this. And furthermore to empower all of the counterparts so that they can network together and everyone can support each other in sort of a nationwide CBO and NGO network. Now UCI has five primary goals. First to develop and deliver the stable and workable open source option package for NGOs and CBOs including an alternative and continually customized Linux distro to replace whichever Windows system they're currently using. Because these computers are donated and they are preloaded before they come to them they all have Windows in one form or another. Ugandans do not use Windows because they're corporate you know head honchos tell them they have to. This is not about market share. Ugandans just don't have a choice. When the NGOs and CBOs receive these in bulk in kind donations they don't have the resources or the IT staff available to fix them change them or provide a stable solution. Our next goal is to provide comprehensive training and support. I mentioned this earlier this is the training curricula package where we will bring them into our classrooms and train them on a pro bono basis. The next is to provide donated computer and networking hardware to these organizations on a proven need basis as determined by an application and approval process to be administered by the Hacker Foundation, Hackers for Humanity and UCI. Also to develop and follow a monitoring and self-evaluation program to create quantifiable long-term and short-term goals so that the Hacker Foundation and its subsidiaries the donors anyone who chooses to donate to this project will know exactly what we are doing what our goals are and how we plan to achieve them if we achieve them and with we are being successful. And finally to implement a long-term sustainability program in which Ugandan nationals will train along UCI staffers to one day replace them being me and become the directors of the organization. This is at any point I decide to come back to a country where I can still get a cheeseburger. And I have to admit there really is a sixth a sixth goal and that's to promote hacker ideals and open source evangelism in Uganda and East Africa. There is no there's no counterculture in Uganda there's no culture of closed source proprietary source activism. You would be amazed by how open to the idea of free software and NGO or a CBO will be even a regular user. The idea of not having to pay for Linux distro is revolutionary. The savings to international aid organizations and to common individual users across the country who have connectivity will be immense. I'm also proud to announce another project tied with tied in with UCI and hackers for humanity which is laptops for East Africa. This is not of course to be confused with the great program being run by the good folks over at computersforafrica.org. They really do they are doing good work. What we're looking to do is target specifically Uganda and then Tanzania Kenya and Burundi and Rwanda. The deal is this we need newer equipment and just walking around this con for the past three days I see a lot of really nice laptops and I got to tell you I want them and I want to give them to organizations who can use them. Actually are we going to be doing Q&A afterwards? We'll be doing Q&A afterwards. Laptops come with built-in UPS systems when the power goes out instead of having to fire up a diesel generator a laptop just keeps running long enough to do what you need to do. They're small. They're portable. We can transport them easily. It is easy to ship a number of laptops instead of one or two desktops and so what you do is you sign up with us. We give you a sticker to put on your laptop. When you're ready to upgrade to that shiny new box that you have been saving up for for the past few years you donate the computer to us for a tax write-off and we send it where it needs to go and where it will be used. Now again I'd like to thank you for your time and your patience. I'm really not very good at this but remember please geeks do come in all colors and I'd really like to see some of my Ugandan friends here in a couple years. Thank you. And please definitely get some of those stickers because I know I'm getting one. I would love to see one of those Ugandans with you know talk nerdy to me and root me and I would love to see that. So send me some pictures please. My name is Louis Rouse. I wasn't announced in the beginning because I was taken care of something personal but anyway I'm the systems administrator for the Chicago neighborhood boys and girls club and the Chicago it's exactly what the name suggests kids come there and they hang out with their friends they play sports and they just chill out after school but we wanted something more for them and in 2004 in March 2004 we set up for them a computer lab and next slide please and that computer lab consisted of these things five Dell computers three emacs a Clark Connect router and some wireless access points and bridges. We were able to do all this with a small donation of about ten thousand dollars from a large financial institution. We also have some office equipment as well for them for the general staff of five standalone PCs Linux terminal server project which is really cool if any of you have ever worked with that and Jim already spoke something about that and another router and we also built for them a Athlon Debian file server mail server but I don't think that's too safe but when you're a non-profit you do with what you got. In the next slide please. This is what our lab looks like when we were first building it. It's pretty sparse but it works for what the kids need basically I am chat with their friends that's about it you know blogs every once in a while they don't do much because they don't know much what's out there with what they got. Next slide some of them open having fun opening opening day next next and this is our current state of funding that $10,000 that we got from that financial institution so it's all gone. The various hardware donations that we get from the community pretty much useless because they're Lexmark printers that they get for free anyway when they buy that other computer then they realize it's no it's crap and then they give it to us and Packard Bells they are still out there I cannot believe it so and then the other one we do get some private financial funding and some these are some of the people who fund this woman is the program director for the club. Next one and that's me and obviously you can tell we need a lot of help if we're duct taping or that switches to the wall so you know we need some help next so how we're gonna use this really cool hardware that we can probably get from the hacker foundation some of the things that we want to do I mean because these guys they're getting together with some really big corporations and giving you that hardware that they're not gonna be using anyway so you know you guys can have some fun with it we want to build a local database what does that mean there are so many community businesses that support the club in many different ways we want the kids to be able one it's once it's all set up to go to these different community businesses get some interesting stories from them get some contact information photos and create a nice database that's online for the parents to go research kind of like a good guy's yellow books where they say hey these people donate to the club I'm gonna go support them first that way hey some of that money will then come back to the club all is good maintaining the website some of these kids are pretty good they want to learn about website building but right now our current webpage is a static ask website that was donated to us for free from an alum it's nice and all but it's not what we want we want something that's live maintainable easy for them to use we have over 70 years of historical newsletters that these people have created on mimeograph paper that are still in hard copy we finally started digitizing some of them but we want to be able to create a database of them in PDF with OCR very nice and I'll tell you why that's important in a second and also we want to create a photo archive we have 70 years of photos as well the reason is this because next year we have the 75th anniversary sorry it's the 75th anniversary coming up we have people coming from all over the country some of these people are 80 years old 90 years old and they want to be able to see all the things that they remember in the past but everybody believes that they're lying about so they want to be able to come in see all the photos are up on a big LCD and say hey that's me then they can take a little card right down that number go over to another computer and print it out so that way they've got a copy for themselves and then what about for their little grand kid that they told remember I scored that goal and during that game you didn't believe me here check this out they type in their name in the PDF archive and up comes every single PDF that they were in boom there you go print it out and go eat it bitch all right anyway next we got digital jukebox of legal mp3s and burns CD backups there's this really cool software called tunes that because I know any of you got kids yeah they all agree on the same music at the same time definitely but what this is tunes is a democratically designed email excuse me email mp3 server where they log on to the website for it as long as they've got an account and they get the vote which song they want to hear and whichever song has the highest amount of votes that's the one that's gets played so it's very very cool that's what I want computer repair and donation these kids I mean they see something shiny and they're like who I want to touch you know but and they want to learn how to build computers they want to repair them we want more computers that are either broken that we can then or people that send them in to repair them give them back or even better have donations of those dead computers the kids can repair them and one project we want is that every sixth computer they build they get to keep that 7th one and then after a while you're gonna be like well these kids are gonna be stacking up with computers whether they're gonna have a cluster and stuff but yeah that's one option if they want to do that but the cool thing is though they get to then choose if they want to who they actually donate that computer to which is even more fun I think because then they get to see and actually affects somebody else's life next you sound like some good ideas you guys might use also in your community okay cool the next terminal server project you saw that lab okay it was pretty sparse that's about a total computers in there plus the router well we've got it right now where if you connect to play stations in the room next to us it blows out half the computers not too much fun so what we want to do is set up a terminal server project where we can have lightweight like Jim spoke about lightweight laptops which have their own stock power supply so on and so forth and be able to run at least 20 25 computers for all these kids to then run those previous projects you saw also the web server to host on all our online projects events registration you guys probably have some kids okay you can't always make your time to go out and sign them up for all these different things go online register them and you're done time sheets for the time sheets for the staff so that way they can just sign in and the administration doesn't have to do all this stuff by hand it's really sad next please Wi-Fi for the park we've got a really nice park out there and we want to be able to broadcast Wi-Fi out there and just for the people to come in and use have the laptops have a good time if we can which would be really great is to be able to track the scores online live once again you guys can't always get to your kids games you can at least check the scores online RSS feed would be great but anyway you can check the scores online and then say hey when the kid comes home I saw your game you had a great time I saw what you scored that's excellent and talk about it wireless video cams to watch the games online secured impassor protect so that only the parents well and you guys can watch the kids play all right same thing you want to be able to see your kids play have you know score that one home run and finally be able to provide the classes that the community and these kids have been looking for I repair computers all day generally all spam viruses pop-up blockers all that stuff and it's the same thing every time asking the exact same questions every single time and I feel like I should just have a tape recorder myself right there and just play it so I want to be able to provide those classes for them so they can actually learn and on those eight computers it's not going to happen but with what we want to do and with the help of the hacker foundation I think it's pretty possible next slide and finally just you know thanks to the hacker foundation because hopefully together we can show the community and these kids that there's a lot more to tech and computers than just IMs and blogs and that's my speech thanks guys so by now you can see that the hacker foundation is official 501c non-profit with a definite presence here at Defconn so that brings up the next question what does that mean for you guys how can the hacker hacker foundation help your projects what can the hacker foundation do for the entire hacker community basically as an umbrella non-profit we can provide you with three things funding advocacy and non-profit status funding is often the largest obstacle for a non-profit initiative in order to receive adequate funding some projects will simply work under another organization for instance a great plan would become just another university project or government project receiving nearly all of its funding from just one source while that might seem like an okay idea the project loses autonomy even though universities have great intentions there at the mercy of the school's budget policy and agenda the project chooses to work with the hacker foundation funding can come from a wide variety of sources and we can work with you to develop those the hacker foundation will work to keep projects connected to organizations that provide funding and also having IRS 501c tax exempt status means that your product can receive donations just like any other the next issue is advocacy the hacker foundation is all about security conscious individuals working together for positive action and I'm sure we're all tired of stereotypes and misrepresentation and this is our chance to fight that without a doubt this will also provide more public awareness positive exposure for the hacker community as a whole finally as I mentioned before the hacker foundation can provide 501c status for a project the process to see this achieve this status typically takes at least two years and an incredible amount of paperwork it's definitely a headache and hackers aren't really good at paperwork by eliminating the headache dealing with the IRS and incorporation hopefully more people will be encouraged to turn their altruistic ideas into a reality bottom line is the hacker foundation is a ready is a ready to receive your applications to ready to hear your ideas we provide the networking for funding 501c nonprofit status and we make it easy enough is just submitting an application to us so hopefully you've learned a little bit more about what the foundation is about what we've been doing you haven't left the it's a long hard road to get over what I call the hacker hump which is a oh you're a hacker oh god you're obviously a criminal and that's not entirely undeserved because whenever you don't see a lot of things that are like hackers fly to you know bang after or bam after a after an earthquake and do great works you know they don't do that doesn't you don't see that stuff a lot so that's one of the things we're also trying to take care of and Frazier hit on that so I'm opening up for questions yes sir that's actually a really good question yeah let me touch it so the main issue is you're out in the bush somewhere where do you get the juice from it's not it's not as bad as you think actually well there are a number of ways that we really tackle the power situation our biggest problem was not in the cities he was not in the even sort of developed rural districts it was in the internally displaced people's camps in the IDP camps there would be about one government power line into the entire camp and chances were pretty good that it didn't have juice in it and when it did it would spike to about 350 and set everything on fire yeah I lost two mini fridges that way what we do is as you mentioned the battery gang solution the battery gang solution is an incredibly effective way you'll see this in a lot of I guess infomercials it'll be a group of car batteries gang together and then inverted I'm not really a tech geek but I know we do use the battery gang we also have a lot of solar cells that have been donated but it's a very solar technology is difficult we are on the equator we have a lot of sunlight but we also have you got as two seasons rainy and sunny you can guess which season is less effective for power from solar also the weather gets pretty volatile and we have had solar racks panels just demolished overnight well we've been sleeping no matter how well we try to protect them so right now we are using primarily diesel backup generators that we're lugging around petrol is expensive but when you need it you need it and especially when you've got IMC volunteers using their laptops they they really need that connectivity so we'll just fire up a diesel you want to donate the fuel cells we want to use them yeah we're not that well funded yet the yeah that's one of the main issues that you see is that you know the next everyone's like oh China is the next big market well it is but they're already really far ahead of the curve that's not worry about the next market that's where the market about the next one the mark the next next market and that's one of the reasons that you see a lot of talk about Africa in the NGO world but we don't want to focus too much on just Jim's project as awesome as it is because that's not what the hack foundation just does if you've got something else in mind say mine detection equipment our nice robotics challenge and for a lot of reasons we're we're we're interested in that kind of stuff too yes you know no it's actually the guy behind you Nick he has the funding question about how you like manage the money can you repeat the question real quickly I still can't hear you could you stand up sorry got a cold my understanding is that as an individual I can't call it the hacker foundation and say okay I want to give organization to say the apache money tour the apache organization and then give you money and take a tax deduction then you give it to the apache organization or to an individual I have to give money to you and then you in theory in a separate process give it to another organization I figured out how that works with the one what happens with the organization open source projects they go through an application process it's a more interactive process than a bureaucratic process what we're doing is determining and making sure that what the goals and aims of each project are are charitable and fall under our section of the internal revenue code once that happens it can it's not a question of what you're donating money and earmarking funds you as an organization go out there directly solicit funds you're working with the hacker foundation the hacker foundation caches the checks and gives the money straight back to you that that's all we do and actually if I can answer that the other thing you guys do is also the hardware as well correct right and well and that's the other thing is that the hacker foundation this I was just referring to projects that apply that are looking for ways to be sort of non-profit in a box I hope there's nobody from the IRS here because and in cases like mine I'm actually hoping for the hardware versus getting money because I'd love to see the money guys you know give that out to the athletics department and have kids play basketball with the server I'd love to see I mean it could be fun but I don't think there's there's two separate issues going on here I think the issue that you were addressing is that if a group applies to the hacker foundation will it be sort of a united way thing and no it's a much more streamlined much more effective than that but what the hacker foundation does as an organization on itself is go out there and actively raise funds for all of its projects so we can make our own decisions about giving you money because we'd love to do that I mean if everybody at DEF CON gave us 60 bucks or 80 bucks we could a throw a really sweet-ass party and this might seem familiar you're at that party or we could do a lot of really great projects you sir in this Cheney LeMay at this time we have three that we call these projects we should have done a slide about this if you think about that about the umbrella like this the hacker foundation sits at the top and does the money and then we have projects underneath it Uganda and in this case the Chicago project was of another internal project which is capacity building you know we need infrastructure and money because that's how you make more money and then we have and then we're actively seeking more projects so that was your question was Mike yeah I'm familiar oh are we are we are talking to other nerds about non-profit stuff yes yeah we we throw around words like capacity and IDP and you know UNHCR and all that kind of stuff all the time and we kind of don't say it here but we definitely you know we're definitely in on that world or we're getting more in on that world most of us are amateur non-profit workers but we're working up to pro yes you my personal biggest biggest motivation behind the hacker foundation I think I talked about this a little earlier in someone else's speech there's two ways you can solve really bad problems like poverty terrorism and war you can buy them out buy them in or you can fight them if we go to Africa and I mean hackers go to Africa or hackers go to Chicago and we're like hey we're really cool people we want to help you and we raise them in our mental sphere get them trained in our mental sphere and say open source is a good thing and they're used to using open source when Microsoft goes to visit in 10 years who's got more feet on the ground that's the kind of stuff I mean you want to see more hackers go where there aren't a lot already and make them it's not that hard personally I'm in it for the money but I can't speak to every I've actually studiously avoided that we don't try and tell you why you should help other people everyone has those reasons and we're done let me take one more because we're that good oh he's giving me okay two minutes yes yes this is what we want to hear yes I do we are interested in talking to you afterward about a potential project sir any more questions yes well you can get a shirt for $20 and it's tax deductible no we have one right here and I also have an issue of frack now this I haven't figured I had to give away yet how about the biggest donation it's an option I mean who's willing to buy this issue of frack and write it off 20 bucks yeah you can do better than 20 bucks oh I have a bid back there yes sir huh 30 okay a little bit more money oh somebody's checking their wallet excellent I like ambition like that and by the way this is this is kind of our money-making strategy I call it big or torture or make Nick far eat a really really big god damn hamburger yeah oh yeah yeah um I'm also having some formal dinners with some rich people tonight that'll help too hopefully yeah one more question well actually the idea is that we don't give them to individuals directly they'll be used in the offices of the NGOs and CBOs themselves I keep using the acronym it's non-governmental organizations they're international aid organizations and the idea is we give them to the organizations because they can then use that hardware to affect the most people or as many people as possible more than a single individual code so thank you