 Hemf yn gweithio, ac yn cydweithio y twf oedd y Com oniad yn yw'r Ysgrifennu Ysgolfa Rangosol ond cydych chi, fel y cydweithio â'r Cymru, i roi yn ccisio, felly yn fe fron y cyflawn i'r Ysgrifennu Ioedd yn cyflawn i'r cy terroristig o dw i'w adael'i fyddai cynnig iawn, ac yn ddych chi'n ffaswynd i'r clywed bryda ni fel gyfan Cymru yn El Cymru. Mae'r ysgrifennu Ioedd yn gweithwyr unig o gweithwyr iawn i'r ffrifoedd i'r cyflawn i'r cyfeithi. The second agenda item is the crisis in Ukraine. It is a further consideration of the new humanitarian impact of the crisis of Ukraine. We were joined this morning by panel of witnesses remotely, Pat Toker, assistant chief officer, public protection and complex needs, Glasgow city health and social care partnership, Elaine Ritchie, senior service manager of Perth and Cronorth Council, Hazel Chisholm, housing policy officer at Highland Council and Gail Findlay, policy manager at COSLA. I welcome you all to the meeting and could open with maybe a couple of questions probably from us thinly. In your written submission to the committee, you say that COSLA is working with the Scottish Government to establish a centralised matching system drawing on the experience from previous resettlement schemes. I would like to know a little bit more about that, but you also say that you are working regularly with SOLIS, the Society of Local Authority of Executives, but you refer to additional issues that remain unresolved and I wonder if you could just elaborate a little bit on what those issues are. Thank you for having us at the committee. First of all, in relation to matching, you will be aware that COSLA has worked within the resettlement space for many years and one of the main roles that is undertaken is working with the Home Office in matching refugees to local authority placements. The plan is with the Ukrainian scheme through the Scottish super sponsorship scheme to replicate that in some form. We are appreciating that the scale around the Ukrainian offer from the Scottish Government is quite significantly different. We are looking at thousands of arrivals in the next few months rather than over the period of a couple of years, which is probably the more normal route around refugee resettlement, but there is a model there that has worked really well in ensuring that when we have information about a displaced person or refugee, that they are then located in a placement that fits their needs. They have the right-sized house, their health needs are met, mobility needs are addressed and educational needs, as well as other things are considered, but probably those are the main things. We are working currently with Scottish Government about how we scale that up to something that can cope with the numbers that are arriving and that is still in train, but we have at the moment a system that we can use for the people who may arrive over the next couple of weeks, which replicates what we have been doing for the past few years. In relation to the number of issues, working through what a matching service would look like, there are issues around how the welcome hubs will operate and their role, which there are four welcome hubs currently in Scotland, Glasgow, Dumfries and Galloway, Edinburgh and Renfrewshire. Although those are established, there are still things to be worked through as to what their exact role is. There are also issues around funding not being confirmed. The scale of the ask is so very different to anything that we have done in Scotland before, that there are lots of things that people across all the different departments in the Scottish Government and local authorities need to consider, whether that is public protection, unaccompanied miners and even really small things such as the arrival of pets, which seems to be quite a big issue, which has never crossed our radar before with refugee resettlement. However, I would say that we have now in place a really strong structure between the Scottish Government and the partners. It is a gold-silver command structure that we are all participating in. Although there are lots of groups and lots of meetings, the structure seems to have brought focus and a kind of a route to be able to refer issues up and down to be resolved at the appropriate seniority level. Obviously, COSLA works closely with COSLA all the time. That is part of our role and being able to speak to all 32 chief executives over something like that is really important as well to be able to then represent their views within that command structure. I hope that that answers your question. Yes, thank you very much. I am now going to move to questions from the committee and could invite Mr Ruskell first, please. Yes, thanks very much. There have been some examples, I think, in England of where the Ukraine family scheme extended family members have been brought over. There have then been some difficulties in terms of securing appropriate accommodation, and some of those people have then gone on to present as homeless. Is that something that has happened in Scotland? Do you foresee that happening or do you think that Gail, particularly the structures that have been put in place here, would mitigate against anything like that happening? Yes, that has happened in Scotland already. It is also through the family visa scheme, where we are seeing people not necessarily family relationships breaking down, but people do not have the space to accommodate their family in a long-term situation. We know that people have presented homeless. At the moment, that is the only route that the Scottish Government is working with the UK Government to allow the transfer of people from visa scheme to visa scheme, so that we would be able to move those people into the super sponsorship scheme and then house them appropriately. Unfortunately, the only route for those people who the placement breaks down or they are unable to stay with their family is to present as homeless within their local authority area. That has happened in Scotland already. I do not know whether the other members of the panel have any further reflections or examples on that at all. Are we hearing from Mr Toker? Yes, thank you. This is something that we have given considerable thought to. I think that that is everything that we know so far for the best while in the world. It is unlikely that we will be able to mitigate against that in its entirety, despite the level of support that we will be able to put in place. It is very much just what Gail had explained. It is not necessarily about safeguarding issues, it is more just about the capacity and space of some of the properties. For the best intentions, we do not always materialise when people arrive and subsequently can end up coming through the homeless route. As Gail has mentioned, that is our only route for that just now. However, we will endeavour to support and to support sponsors wherever we possibly can to make sure that they feel supported in the process, but we are already starting to see some of that coming through. Ms Ritchie? From a Perthyn Cynrhodd's perspective, we have not had the homeless the drill for tonight, but I know that another local authority is from our weekly meetings, which are chaired by COSLA and the Scottish Government. We have seen it in the larger cities where people have presented it as homeless. However, I understand that they have been dealt with in accordance with their homeless legislation, which, as you know, is quite significant input in Scotland. We have provided appropriate accommodation with the wraparound support. Ms Tism? Yes. We have already had one of our placements failed after just a couple of days. It is real concern that those guests did not present in Highland. They travelled through it to, I believe, Renfrewshire and found accommodation with some friends and are going to be travelling to England. I think that each case could be complex. We have to identify each case that fails on its own situation. I think that it is going to be a real challenge for us, especially here in Highland, where we have a big geographical spread and we see some of our hosts and matches appearing in very rural communities. If they present, sometimes it is where we do not always have accommodation. There are plenty of challenges and we are very concerned about when situations do fail and the impact on the current homeless situation that we have here in Highland. I think that all local authorities will find us a real challenge going forward. I wanted to ask a specific question to Elaine Ritchie. I met recently with students of Tayside, who, obviously, employ a lot of Ukrainian workers on a seasonal basis and on a longer term basis. I think that the concern that they had and some of their workers had is that, although there is an assurance that temporary visas can be extended to December 2022, the actual paperwork, the actual formal assurance and extension of those visas has not yet come through. I wonder if that is something that you are aware of, particularly in that rural context, where we have a lot of Ukrainian seasonal workers in Perth and Kinross, and whether that was something that you were urging the Home Office to make sure that people are getting the actual documents that they need to give them the assurances that they need that they can stay. It is currently not an issue that we are aware of in Perth and Kinross. However, we would provide the support and assistance. That was an issue during lockdown, particularly when all the hotels and the industry closed down and we had to accommodate quite a lot of our seasonal workers. We would replicate that approach again if it became an issue, first of all, to make sure that people are safe and secure and provide them with accommodation. I understand that we have raised it locally. We have a local network set up with various agencies, and it is a priority as a discussion area, but because it is not risen as a current area, we understand that the paperwork will come through. If they lose their employment or accommodation, we have a multiagency response ready that we are currently working with in terms of providing support to Ukraine refugees. We will replicate that approach. Although it is not a current issue, we have got processes and a framework in place should it happen. However, we are closely monitoring it and we are working closely with our colleagues in COSLA and the Scottish Government to try and resolve that issue and to provide some certainty to your regard and the visa and also the paperwork and timescales that go with it. I hope that that will come through in the next week. We are running up to the end of the month. I have got one extra question. That was in relation to those Ukrainian citizens who are undocumented and were here before 1 January 2022. They are caught a bit in a way because they are not part of any of the current schemes that have been announced to enable people to have extended visas here. Do you think that that is a problem? Are there significant numbers of people? Do you know how many people are undocumented and are therefore ineligible for those schemes? Do you have any concerns around that and how they may also then potentially be affected by the Rwandan scheme or any other? I have not got figures or any knowledge on that in terms of any undocumented. That is something that we are not incited on or we are aware of and it has not come through from a person like Ross or from any of our local authorities that we work quite closely with. Perhaps Gail might have a better awareness of that from a COSLA perspective. If we could get a COSLA perspective, that would be good as well. Mr Ruskell, you will be aware that visa and immigration is the domain of the home office. At COSLA, the Scottish Government is making representations about all the different visa questions, including the one that you asked previously about workers and issues around students and people on visitors visas. What we do know in conversations with the home office is that they do not want Ukrainians to be pushed into an asylum route and there is a route at the moment where people can begin an application within the country to remain on the Ukraine visa. There is a period of time where they will remain undocumented but there is that route having been open to people to apply, which was not there in the beginning of the scheme. That is a positive step forward but there still needs to be more clarity from the home office about how they are going to support people in that situation. The other reassuring thing is that they are looking to make sure that Ukrainians do not represent into the asylum system, because I think that that would obviously not be a route that you would recommend to anybody to go down if there is a humanitarian protection programme that would help them. The other thing is that, if the Scottish Government has funded Just Right Scotland, it provides legal advice to Ukrainians in Scotland and that is a really welcome addition. I think that what we probably need is more of that, because I know that they are already very busy asking questions but they would be able to provide that support where local authorities do not provide immigration advice as a rule and we would be directing people to that kind of support to get the help and advice that they need to get them on the right path. Do any of our other panellists want to contribute on either of those questions? We are not aware of any numbers. I do not have any data on previous Ukrainians who have been impacted by not having any documentation so I would not be able to comment. We have not been made aware of that. We are not aware of any data on that either but the position that we would take would be mitigating against any risk of destitution and the same way that we have done with no recourse to public fund population in Glasgow, which we have done very successfully during the pandemic. Thank you convener and good morning to the panel. Just to follow up on the first question that was asked by Mark Ruskell about the difficulties involving refugees who become homeless having arrived in Scotland, one of the reasons for that could be that the accommodation of their sponsor host is unsuitable. I just wondered what work is being done by local authorities to check for suitability of accommodation prior to the arrival of refugees. Is that happening and how easy is that to facilitate? Perhaps I could start with Gail Findlay. As part of the Homes for Ukraine scheme, local authorities are required to undertake both a property check and an enhanced disclosure check on the host and any over 16-year-olds in the household. Local authorities have started receiving the information about their host under the Homes for Ukraine scheme and have therefore started undertaking the checks, but you will appreciate that that is quite a large task. For some local authorities, there are challenges around staffing and being able to undertake those checks. We are working closely with Discrosia Scotland to make sure that those checks are done quickly in terms of the disclosure, but there is still a property check that needs to happen as well. In terms of the super sponsorship scheme, it is slightly different because there will be a number of properties that will be host properties in that, but we would not be matching anybody until all those checks are taking place. You have that mitigation and reassurance that any safeguarding concerns would be highlighted and the property would not be used within the sponsorship scheme. However, the Homes for Ukraine, because it is a visa-driven system, obviously the Ukrainians can arrive as soon as their visa is issued, and the local authorities do not get the data on those cases until the visa is issued. It is a bit of a doing things as quickly as you can, and all three local authorities that are represented here will be able to describe their own processes locally and some of the challenges that they face in that. If I could then turn to the various representatives from different local authorities to gauge the issues from their perspective, could I start with Hazel Chisholm, please? Yes, thank you. We have first got access to the data from the Scottish Government on the 6 of April. Today, we have 72 properties registered and matched with the Ukrainian families spread across Highland Council, everywhere from Skye to Wick to Inverness and Fort William. The challenges are getting to those properties. Some of them are quite rural and having the officers to do so. I mean, we set up an officer to go out and check some properties, unfortunately, but Covid still very much around. He came down with Covid and had to get one of his colleagues to step in, and that is just one of the challenges. Asking a team who are very much already quite busy to have 70 properties to go out and property check is quite a challenge, so staffing is a challenge for us. Every day, we give the property team an update on the properties that have come in the day before. They add them to their list. There is a property check sheet being sent through from the Scottish Government, and it is with an exhaustive check of what needs to be done. So they have started, they are completing checks, and then we run the enhanced disclosure alongside, so we are trying to do both at the same time. We prioritise either people who have said that my guests have their visas and are travelling and know the arrival date. Sometimes we have been contacted by families who are hosting to say that my family is already here, and the data will maybe arrive on the same day, so we have people and properties, we have them properly checked and we are not in control of that. We have not been able to start the disclosure process, so that has been challenging. Some situations we will be able to get ahead of, and everything will be done on all boxes ticked before families arrive. But because until we get the data, we cannot start property checks and enhance the disclosure, it is quite a challenge for us. This may be an impossible question to answer because of all the variables that you have described, but if everything goes according to plan, what kind of timeframe are we talking about between an application to ticking all the boxes, as it were, or is that just how long is the piece of string? It is a bit how long is the piece of string, unfortunately. It depends on where the property is and how far somebody has to travel to get to it, so maybe a property in Inverness, which is quite close, if we can get the data in, say, on Monday, we could probably get out to the, yeah, probably could be done within a week if we had the staff to go and do it, and I believe that the enhanced disclosure checks have been expedited, so they are coming back very, very quickly. I think that it is still hard to predict in an ideal world, I think, maybe a week if everything was in place, but I would not like to say that for sure. It is quite hard. I understand that. Can I turn next to Elaine Ritchie for her perspective from Perthyn Kinross? Thank you, Mr Cameron. Yeah, we were quite proactive in terms of property checks. Before we got the data on the 6 April, we had actually engaged with quite a lot of community groups, which were made up of hosts, so it had matches, so we went out and visited quite a lot of community groups and gave them quite a lot of advice and assistance regarding property checks, because we managed the housing service, so we know in terms of what adequate and safe and secure housing should look like. We had already done that and set up a dedicated web page on our local authority website, giving lots of information. Similar to the other local authorities, we get the information through on a data sheet, and we have developed an online forum, a property check form that we sent the hosts for them to complete. It is very basic information to gather the information about their property type to allow us to triage what properties we are going to go out and check, because the numbers are vast. We have a significant amount of properties to check, but that allows us to triage based on what information they have provided, whether or not the visa is being granted and whether or not the people have already arrived. Once we have that information, we have a team of officers set up and we have done a multi-agency approach with trained officers up to go out and undertake property checks. We are trying to do it within a week, and so far it has been working really well. We have undertaken about 50 property checks, we have got over 100 matches, and the properties that we are going out to check are really, really in good condition. We thought that we would see some things based on some of the information that we received, but most are self-contained accommodation or they are parts of larger accommodation where people have got their own access to their own kitchens and bathrooms and whatnot. We have provided advice and assistance about integrated lint smoke alarms, just things like that, but because we have access to grants and information and advice, we are able to support that sort of information. It has been working fairly well, so we are just waiting on further matches coming through and similar to the local authorities, we are working that in tandem with the disclosure checks, which are coming through really, really quickly. A disclosure of Scotland has set up a bespoke team, and the responses that we are getting back from that host needs a significant amount of support to complete the disclosure forms, because they are quite detailed. Although the property checks take up a lot of time, so do the support and assistance with hosts to complete all the documentation that goes around some of the paperwork that is required. The challenges that we are facing are the volume, the number. We had a bit of a backlog to start with, because people did not have their visas. Once visas started to come through, it is chasing our tail a bit, but things are picking up. Our online forms are working really well. It is just triage and focusing on who is currently here, and it is about that safeguarding element as well. I appreciate that this is a slightly different question, given that you represent a health and social care partnership. Any observations that you have on the practical issues that are being faced? The practical issues that are at the moment are what has already been described. It is about getting the list as quick as we possibly can, similar to the other local authorities. We received the list on 8 April, and then very quickly activated the teams that were already being prepared for. As an HSCP, we have an asylum bridging health team, which is very much part of the asylum refugee team. We have a Glasgow hub meeting, which is represented by not only the asylum bridging health team and social care staff, but also principal officers from adult protection and child protection and also the third sector. We are able to mobilise that quite quickly. The issues that have been described are really the pace of the private arrangements that are already in place with sponsors. We have to be very quick to respond and go out to undertake the property checks, where guests and sponsors have already made those connections. That is the priority that we have. Our list is in excess of 200. We are already out there undertaking property checks. As has been described, the list and the property check are extensive. We are in Glasgow undertaking that through our environmental health officers, who have been mobilised to undertake that task. As has been mentioned, the disclosure of Scotland is working really well for us. It is a quick turnaround, but the challenge at the moment is the pace of that and making sure that those placements are already taken place are seen as swiftly as possible. Thank you for that. I just have one final question on a slightly different issue to Gail Finlay. You have touched on that already. That is the differences between the super sponsor scheme and the private individuals applying under the Homes for Ukraine system. Yesterday, we learned from the minister that there have been 570 visas under the Scottish Government's super sponsor scheme and 1,050 visas under the private individual route. You have touched on that in terms of housing, but are there any differences in how that has managed? Are there any other differences in how that has managed? Are you interested to explore? I think that it is quite different. Obviously, when a person in Ukraine buys for the Scottish sponsorship scheme, they are put in the Scottish Government as their host, so they do not have an address to go to when they first arrive into the country. We will be using the welcome hub and associated accommodation, depending on which port of entry they come in, to first initially triage people to make sure that they do not have any emergency needs but also to complete forms around their needs for housing. There is a stop gap that does not appear in the Homes for Ukraine scheme in that people will have a few days in accommodation while they are matched to a property. That property portfolio will consist of social housing as well as hosting offers through the expressions of interest. Again, the difference is that we have the ability to reject a hosting offer before somebody is matched into the placement. A lot of those safeguarding concerns that we have around the Homes for Ukraine scheme are mitigated. Obviously, the welcome hubs are intended to be a very short-term stay for people just while we gather their information and make the best match for them before they are moved on to their properties across the local authority areas across Scotland and receive the support from local authorities to then integrate and settle in their new home, whether it is a hosting placement or a social housing placement. The question is firstly for Gail Finlay and talking about the response of local authorities to volunteers. You have already explained something about that relationship and the work that local authorities are doing. If you are picking up a hunger for information from the volunteers from any source, I think that the Home Office has provided quite limited acknowledgement of those offers of help. Clearly, local authorities are doing their best to get around all those people and check houses. Is there a bit of frustration at the volunteer end or the volunteer host end that they do not seem to have heard much more back from the Home Office? Certainly, some people have been in touch to put that point to me. I think that there is quite a lot of confusion, if I am honest, because the Home Office has a very small role in the whole process. It is the department of levelling up and housing communities that are running the scheme, so the Home Office is in charge of the visas and the DLUHC is in charge of the scheme, as it were. I think that there is frustration because that is a nuance that if you are new to all of that, you may not understand and most hosts have never engaged in any of that kind of work before. I think that there is very little information in general for lots of people because we are working at a pace that is almost retrofitting systems to a scheme that has already been established. In Scotland, in terms of hosting, there are several routes where we can direct people to for more general hosting support. A Scottish Refugee Council, in particular, is funded to support hosts and do some initial work with them about understanding what hosting is and what you might have to do. Some of the experiences that their families may encounter when they arrive, but, as Elaine mentioned, local authorities are talking to hosts and trying to explain what might be expected of them. Hosting is not something that has happened routinely in the UK, if I am honest. There are small pockets of it, particularly around asylum, where asylum seekers have lost their accommodation because their claim is still going through a process but has been rejected. The experience of hosting is not a widely known asset in that work. It is a bit of a learning curve for a lot of people around it. However, with the Scottish Sponsorship scheme, we are hoping that there will be more broad third sector of support going in to support the hosts alongside the work that local authorities will do, because capacity-wise local authorities will be unable to support hosts and Ukrainians across the numbers that we are expecting. I know that local authorities are receiving a huge number of inquiries from hosts as to where their families' visas are and when they will be checked. A lot of local authorities are unable to answer and need to redirect people back to the DLUHC helpline. I wonder if I could also ask a little bit, if you could say a bit more, about the situation with local authorities. In some cases, presumably, there are also housing associations in terms of putting figures on the number of houses that may be available. Certainly, I have had hosts asking me about this. They are very happy to be hosts, but they are not entirely always clear what sort of numbers of houses may eventually be made available. Is COSLA trying to begin to put figures on that for all local authority areas? At the moment, the picture is quite complex. The Scottish Government has a list of around 18,000 expressions of interest of hosting offers. That obviously is a range of people who, four weeks ago, saw something on the news and felt compelled to say that they would like to help, but have now reflected on it and may be that hosting is not for them and they want to volunteer in another way. There is a whole process around triaging that information and whittling it down to real offers, as well as doing all the checks and making sure that those properties and hosts are suitable. There is an element of, until we know what that offer is, that we will know the gap as well. At the moment, we do not know whether that 19,000 will whittle down to 2,000 or 8,000. We do not have a sense. The other thing to say about hosting offers is that they only have to offer for six months. In six months' time, we may be back in a situation where lots of people are facing the need to find a new place to live. That is further down the line at the moment. Local authorities have committed to providing social housing where they can, but they will be aware that local authorities are under immense pressure for their homelessness list themselves, but also under other humanitarian protection schemes. Local authorities had committed to participating in the Afghan scheme, where we still have over 12,000 people in hotels across the UK and more people still arriving, seeking refuge through the Afghan schemes. There is also—you may be aware—that the UK Government has just informed local authorities that they will be widening dispersal of asylum across all local authority areas, so that will be a further demand on homelessness routes once people have a positive decision. At this time, we are unable to say that there will be x number of social housing, and—yes, you are correct—that will take in a mixture of RSL, registered social landlords, as well as local authorities. However, we know that local authorities will and are able to commit properties. The other thing is that, although we have not got the arrival through the Scottish Sponsorship scheme—your colleague mentioned it—there have been a number of visas, but the number of people arriving into Scotland on the sponsorship scheme is very small. Therefore, until that demand rises, local authorities will be hesitant to put properties in, because they could use it for something else, and they will bring another property at the other end of the scheme. I am under no doubt that local authorities will step up, but they will not be able to provide the numbers that we are going to see coming through the scheme, because we just do not have that number of properties in social housing. Hazel Chisholm, you mentioned some of the challenges that rural local authorities face in terms of assessing the houses that have been volunteered and so on. However, if you can maybe say a bit more about what kind of work is being done or needs to be done in terms of planning the support that will be needed for the families themselves once they arrive on the challenges that rural areas might face in doing that, or how you are approaching that. We are reaching out through the charities and a lot of volunteer bodies who are making themselves very well known to us. We already work with well-established volunteering organisations in Trout Highland, and there is a real swell of goodwill towards supporting the humanitarian effort. People who can't host are very keen to get involved. I have started working with our ward managers and their identifying groups and committees, particularly in rural communities, who are very willing to set up welcome events and provide many welcome hubs. I am working to support areas in which we know that families are coming. I think that that is going to work very well. We have a strategy group for Ukraine, and we are going to have a subgroup of that, which is very much tied in with our third sector organisations and volunteering, so we can really pull together the community effort there. That is what we are busy doing at the moment, because I think that there is a lot of really goodwill in Highland to support the Ukrainians. They want to make us a success for people. I think that what we do not want is people going to rural communities, particularly, and finding that there is that lack of support and then deciding that they need to go somewhere else or that they need to present us homeless in cities such as Inverness or whatever. It is very much working with our third sector and tapping into the voluntary offers of support. We are very active on looking at Facebook these days and the amount of groups that have sprung up on Facebook actively helping to match people who have offered their homes as hosts but have not made a match. There is lots of really good work going on there. A lot of churches want to provide support and hubs, so we are really reaching out to local community groups. I think that that will be invaluable going forward to make a success of the resettlement for Ukrainians in Highland. Thank you, convener, and thank you and good morning panel. Really following on from Dr Allan's first question, I represent Argyll and Bute, and the last couple of weeks I've been out and about the constituency. I'm interested, too. We've heard a lot about individuals offering their accommodation, but I'm interested to know what work you're doing with businesses, because a number of hospitality businesses have written to me and have said that they have accommodation that they would love to welcome Ukrainians to, and they can also offer them work. I'm interested to know what the local authorities have been doing to connect with businesses as well that can offer a warm welcome. As part of the scheme currently, businesses and community groups are unable to offer its individual private hosts only, and that applies to both the Scottish Sponsorship scheme and the Homes for Ukraine. There are concerns, if I'm honest, about people being placed in an employment accommodation, and then there's an expectation that they will work for their rent. Now, some Ukrainians, when they're here, may choose to do that, and that would be absolutely fine as long as the conditions and pay were acceptable, but I think that there is quite a lot of concern about making sure that people aren't exploited and that there isn't an expectation. So, there's no expectation when a Ukrainian lives with a host that they will pay rent, and therefore we wouldn't expect the same in businesses. At the moment, that route isn't allowed. I know that the UK Government is looking at how they could work with businesses and, probably more importantly, with community groups and organisations, for example, YMCA, who may be able to offer properties. The concerns around exploitation and modern slavery are probably overriding those routes at the moment. I think that, although we will probably need to be looking at every possible option, that may not be top priority if that makes sense in terms of just those concerns. However, I think that the Scottish Government will look to be engaging with reputable employers and already have in terms of people's employment opportunities. I think that that may be once people have arrived in the country, that might be an option that is given to people as their next phase, because obviously people will have three years to remain. As I said before, their initial accommodation, if it is with a host, is only for six months. I think that that is one of the next steps that need to be explored. That is very helpful. Thank you very much, Gail. I wonder if any of the local authority representatives have anything to add to that. Ms Chisholm? We have had individuals reach out to us and ask us if they could present particularly hotels. There are a lot of seasonal workers who come to Highlands, and I think that that has been impacted by Covid and maybe changes in rules in relation to Brexit. They have asked if we can work with them to bring Ukrainians to work in hotels. Unfortunately, we have had to say that there is no mechanism to do that at the moment. There is a bit of concern about specifically if seasonal work ends, what those people do, where do they live and where do they get employment. I would not like to—there is concern about potential abuse of the situation. We have just had to say that that is not available. Somebody contacted us and said that a group of people had registered this super sponsorship route, and they wanted to employ them, but they did not go hand in hand. People sometimes confused the super sponsorship route and the Homesview crane route. We just had to continue to explain if business people contacted us. Unfortunately, there is no mechanism at the moment to bring people, but we have had queries, and it is potentially for seasonal work. Until something is developed, we say that this is not something that we can entertain, but there is a lot of will to bring people over here for work, but there is nothing there at the moment that we can assist them with. I will echo what Gail's points are raised by Gail. We have engaged with local business and our hospitality sector, particularly regarding their employment offer rather than accommodation. However, we have highlighted that our main focus is getting people into Perth, Inking and Ross, getting them settled, making sure that they are safe and secure, focusing on children in terms of enrolment in school, in GPs and whatnot. Employment will come if it is required. It goes back to the points that have just been raised. It is communication and keeping that dialogue open and engaging with local businesses. We are doing that, but it made it quite clear that our initial focus is getting people safe and secure and settled and then looking at employment further down the line. I was very interested in hearing about the meeting of the chief execs of each of the local authorities. I am interested to know how you are learning from what each other is doing and how, if that has changed the way that you have been operating. Ms Ritchie, you are on my screen just now, so can I put that direct to you first? Yes. We are learning from each other. It has been raised at pace. We have not worked like that before. It is different from our other resettlement schemes, although there are some elements of practice that we can adopt here. I thought that quite a lot of the local authorities are coming together. COSLA is facilitating weekly meetings, and so is the Scottish Government. We are meeting on a weekly basis. From a Perth, Inking and Ross perspective, we have got other local authorities that are quite close to us in terms of Gunty and Angus, and we are working together to share in knowledge and services. We are looking at joining services up, particularly for our volunteers and communities. There is a lot of work and a lot of practice. We are learning from each other, so there is a lot of collaboration going on between local authorities. Ms Chisholm, you have already talked about working with third sector organisations. I am sure that there was a lot of learning from the Covid recovery resilience groups that were probably set up across Scotland. I am interested if you can expand on that at all. Yes. I think that you are quite right there with the Covid. We were quite pleased that it was quite recent in a way that we just tapped into a lot of groups that have been set up for Covid and just worked on good practice with that. People who have just been actively involved with that, we just called them back and said, right, this is what we need to do, and that worked really well. We are working really closely with other local authorities and definitely sharing good practice and good ideas with each other. COSLA has been excellent in keeping us up to date, sharing regular emails, regular meetings and being very, very available when we have had questions. I think that they have been great, especially when we are waiting for funding advice and guidance to be sent through. If nothing else, it is allowed us to build on what we had before resettlement, but as this is a new kind of resettlement, we are really needing to use each other's learning and work very closely. I think that that has enhanced the working across the Scottish Government, definitely. If I could just quickly ask you about the health and social care partnerships across Scotland, if you have a similar co-ordinated approach? Yes. We have set up a fortnightly arrangement across the whole of GG&C and all the local authorities associated with that. That, again, is about sharing best practice. Glasgow has been a dispersal local authority in over 22 years. It is considerably experienced in the resettlement programme for Afghans and Syrians, so we are sharing everything from assessment template to experience, to processes and systems. Where necessary, we host a service centrally. I touched on earlier on the role of the asylum bridging health team that we have in Glasgow, and they are significantly experienced in this area of work. It is a discussion that, as we move forward, will pay significant dividends for all of us. It has been really good hearing the answers to the questions from members of the panel. Can I pick up on the issue about support for people when they have made it to Scotland? It is obviously very complicated for many people to arrive here. As one of you said, we have 18,000 expressions of interest of people being prepared to host potential refugees from Afghanistan and Ukraine. I am very conscious that a lot of people in touch have already done things such as improving their housing and decorating their housing, and they have bought new furniture to be ready for people. One of you said that there is an issue about what happens when the match is not right. I wanted to go back to explore that issue, because it will obviously not be easy for everybody to do the actual work of hosting a family once they have arrived. It is the issue of what follow-up work is being done to check that matches have worked. If they do not work for whatever reason, it is not automatic that that family or that person goes into a homelessness situation. Having spoken to Afghanistan and Syrian refugees recently, some of them are still homeless years after arriving, particularly Syrian refugees. I was wondering whether you could maybe speak to Gail Finlay first, if you want to pick that up from an overall causal perspective first. Obviously, the checks that local authorities are undertaking will hopefully mitigate any safeguarding concerns, but as you reflected there, hosting perhaps is not going to work for everybody because hosting strangers in your house for a period of time can be extremely difficult, but it could be something as simple as that the Ukrainian family arrive, the host has pets and they are allergic to pets and therefore cannot stay. It could be really basic things rather than relationship breakdown. What we are hoping is that, with agreement from the UK Government and it is dependent on this, is that where a relationship or a hosting arrangement is not able to continue, that people will be able to remain within the Scottish sponsorship scheme or be rematched with another family or another tenancy if it was a social housing so that they would not drop out of that system, but at the moment we are unable to do that because the UK Government has not agreed it because it is a swapping of posts and a swapping of visa schemes that has to be agreed. It seems that the conversations are moving in the right direction and we are hoping that we will see resolution to that fairly soon and that people will be able to move back into the sponsorship scheme whichever route they have come in so that they are not being put into the homeless route because none of us feels that that is the appropriate route for people to be going into when there is a scheme established where there will be support from local authorities, third sector and community groups for people. That is really useful to get feedback on and I think that that is something that needs to happen because, as you say, it is not necessarily about people falling out, it is just a reality check, it could be food that is eaten, somebody is vegan, all those kinds of things that cannot be predicted necessarily before people arrive. The other thing that I wanted to ask about was that issue of safeguarding, safeguarding not just for an initial matching process but for follow-ups, what support will be there for families? I am particularly thinking about people who have come from Ukraine who have experienced sexual abuse or who have had connectivity with traffickers because of the length of time that it has taken for them to get to safety. What follow-up work is being done to provide that support, it could be mental health support as well as making sure that the checks are actually carried out not just once by Disclosure Scotland but as a follow-up process for people. Again, if you want to keep going on that one, Gil Finlay. Local authorities are really experienced at working with refugees and have systems that will be different across all 32 local authority areas and health boards, but they have systems in supporting people who have experienced trauma, sexual exploitation and trafficking. We will be tapping into those partnerships at a local level. Local authorities and their partners will be taking different approaches but, as part of the scheme, the local authorities are expected to provide on-going integration support. Obviously, dealing with some of those really difficult issues that you have mentioned will form part of that and will be priority for local authorities. In addition, Scottish Government has set up some specific work around trauma-informed practice and also a trafficking group to make sure that those supports have a national reach because you will be aware that some services tend to be centred around Edinburgh and Glasgow just because the demand is better and stronger there. They are looking at how they can expand that and support practitioners on the ground in all the different partners, whether it is local authorities or health boards or voluntary sector. We have experienced local authorities that have done that with many refugee groups. As much as the Ukrainian citizens experience is very recent, in some ways their experience will reflect many refugees that have already been hosted across local authorities. That experience is really helpful in supporting them going forward, but it will be different in each area due to different services and different ways of operating. Is there a gendered analysis of that work taking place just to review it? It is one of the suggestions made by Just Right Scotland, given the particular experience that we are aware of in terms of trafficking and sexual abuse that people might have experienced in country before they leave? The trafficking group will be picking that up. Just Right Scotland is a part of that group. There is a trafficking committee that is part of the gold-bron structure that I mentioned earlier, and they will be picking that up as far as I understand. I am personally not involved in that group, but no colleagues will be involved in that. Can I ask a follow-up question to Pat Toker, which is about the issue of supporting people once they have arrived? It is using the experience that we have had from previous refugees, particularly people that I met from Afghanistan and Syria recently, and they still have challenges accessing NHS support. It is not just PTSD or trauma from the experience of having to become a refugee, but particularly some of the Ukrainian refugees. We are talking about older people or people who have underlying health conditions that they had before they became refugees. How do you provide that short-term support, access to medicines and immediate medical support that somebody needs on-going? They might have had four weeks of not having had that support. Then, how do we get them fitted into our NHS system, which is already under pressure? The process is clear for that, because people have expressed concerns about that it is really difficult for people linguistically to work out what they are meant to do and how to get that support once they have arrived. I will answer the question in the short term in the first instance. Some of that has been described earlier on through the super sponsorship scheme, through the arrival in the hotels. We have greater control and greater influence over that, because what we are doing in Glasgow is that we have deployed our asylum bridge and health team through the hotel. Immediate health needs are met at that point. Any prescriptions and medications that are required at that point can be provided. We have access to GPs for prescribing, and we also have access to advanced nurse practitioners who can also prescribe. We also have a complex needs service that was stood up during Covid in Glasgow, which can also provide some in-reaching capacity to the hotel. We are well prepared with regard to the people arriving that require treatment and medication immediately, including the temporary registration of GPs for the duration that they would be in the hotel, which, hopefully, will be a very short period of time until they are matched. On the longer term, that will come down to how well we integrate people within the community, in terms of community connectedness, which we have been successful about in that interface. If there are issues in relation to that, I have certainly not heard of them, certainly not recently. However, that is something that we will continue to check in, not only with Syrians and Afghans, but also with the Ukrainians as they arrive, by way of a follow-up to ensure that the experience is warm and welcoming, and that it is a established integrated process as much as possible. In that regard, it will be for universal services that will essentially kick in at that point once the guest is accommodated with the sponsor, the local GP registration, local education registration, for example, and the interface with the third sector groups that are also available to support that. The standing up of additional translating services in Glasgow will also be deployed there. We are certainly prepared in the short term in terms of gearing that up and drawing on our experience. In the longer term, it is about the connectedness to the localities, but there certainly will undoubtedly be a challenge just given the scale of what it is that we anticipate here. I suppose that the other issue is continuing to monitor it, so that you have your initial wave of people coming, but there will be on-going issues that will potentially emerge afterwards. Things such as PTSD might not be immediately available, and that could need support for a host and for the family that have come to Scotland. I suppose that it is keeping an eye on that. Have you got systems in place to do that? Yes. I am glad that you picked that point up there. Our experience so far is that this is not immediately apparent, and there is a risk to jump in with that type and that level of support. We discussed earlier on the absolute priority that we know from experiences that people want to feel settled and secure, and they want their essential needs met immediately, and that is what we are good at doing. Then acknowledging that PTSD can impact later on and getting the timing of that is absolutely critical. We have services that are available, and most of our services in Glasgow are trauma-informed. The services through the asylum team and the bridging health team are there to signpost anywhere else to any of the other services that are required, as well as when. That is useful. I will ask Elaine Richie and Hazel Chisholm a final question, which is about the on-the-ground challenge that you have talked about, whether it is going out to people's houses or wherever. I am thinking particularly about issues about translation. What support are you beginning to put in place because translating everything is going to be quite a challenge? I am guessing that it is going from zero to suddenly having that capacity. I am wondering how you are coping with that, and what resourcing is going in there to make sure that this is going to be a successful transition for people. Elaine Richie, you are on our screen. That is a very good question. It is something that we have had to put additional resources in. We have increased quite a lot of our translation services, because that is something that we have learned from our previous resettlement schemes and translating quite a lot of our key documents. We have done that already because that was quite slow in the process before. We are currently just going through the procurement process to increase our translation, but we have recruited, going back to your point, about that follow-up check that is so key in terms of a welfare check once a person is settled. What we are doing is making sure that we have staff that have access to translation services. There are devices that we have bought in terms of being able to translate when they are on the ground with the individual, but we are also looking for additional services to come in, particularly through the Scottish Refugee Council. They have recruited people who speak Ukrainian and Russian to support us with that. It is something that we have identified as a key area and a key priority, is to make sure that we take down that language barrier straight away to allow people to feel safe and also to ask for what support and assistance they need. We have definitely enhanced our translation services and followed up with welfare checks as well. Thanks for that. In nasal chism, I thought of the point that Pat Toker made that people may not initially say exactly what their circumstances are, so is that how you connect with them afterwards and having that translation capacity? How are you moving ahead with that? That is presumably going to be quite a challenge. Yes, definitely. I know that it was suggested and it was something that we were going to do that with all our staff from Highlands. We know that we have some Ukrainians already here and we are going to reach out and ask if people were willing to step forward as translators or be able to help if there were families in their area. We know that interpretation has been and finding people in Highlands. We struggle sometimes with our Afghan resettlement to find translator locally, not so much with our Syrian but with our Afghan one. We are also translating our documents. We will be working with the Scottish Refugee Council to access some of the services that they have provided. Definitely, once we come to the welfare checks, I do not think that we are at that stage very much at the beginning of the checks. We will be identifying staff, being able to access even if it is on a tablet or handheld device interpretation. I believe that the feedback coming to us is that young people from Ukraine tend to speak good enough English, older people not so much and children not so much. It just depends on the make-up of the household. If somebody is in their 20s or 30s, they will probably be able to communicate with English, but we cannot rely on that either. We are definitely looking to upscale our staff and devices to be able to assist us with interpretation. That is very helpful. Thank you very much. I invite Mr Golden, who is joining us remotely. Thank you, convener. I have one specific question from the panel. I will probably start with Gail on that one and then one more general question. On the specific question, Gail mentioned earlier in the proceedings on refugee pets. There has been a suspension of commercial imports of pets to allow for the management and quarantine spaces to be focused on refugee pets. While we recognise that it is important that humans are welcomed here in Scotland, pets can be very much part of the family as well. Gail, you mentioned earlier just how that was working, if it is working smoothly, and how many refugee pets are being accommodated. I do not have any figures for you, Mr Golden. I am afraid of the numbers. I know of a handful that were taken into quarantine as people arrived through Ken Ryan port and have been successfully put into quarantine under the laws of the country. It is very different from any other refugee scheme that we have had before people have not been able to bring pets into the country. Obviously, if people are arriving by airlines, they are unlikely to be bringing their family pet with them. Obviously, there are lots of overland routes into Scotland and, therefore, there will be a need for the local authorities and border force and whoever else is involved in those things to ensure that there are those spaces. I know that the Scottish Government has issued guidance about how that is to be handled. Like you said, spaces have been made available to accommodate any arrivals through that route. Thank you, Gail. I will maybe move on to a general question and start with you again, if that is okay, but feel free for the rest of the panel if they have anything on refugee pets just to chime in. On a more general question, I am just interested—we have touched on this—if local authorities have the resources that are required to support Ukrainians and if there are any gaps that you might have identified. At the moment, there are not any funding instructions being issued for the homes for Ukraine scheme or the Scottish sponsorship scheme, and those are still in negotiation. We are working on the basis that there will be a tariff, as there are with each of the resettlement schemes that are attached to each person that will help local authorities to meet some of the costs that come in. Obviously, local authorities have mentioned some of those significant costs. There are a couple of areas where it is quite different. At the moment, there are not any health or additional health costs, and normally there are health costs attached. Obviously, that is for our health colleagues to be arguing for. Obviously, that is a concern to local authorities as well. If there are not the health services in an area, they cannot successfully support people to integrate. That is an area of concern. Obviously, there is the welcome hubs as well, which is a new element to refugee resettlement, and currently there is not any funding agreement for those either. Therefore, we are aware that funding is going to be available, but we do not know what it actually looks like. That makes it very hard for local authorities and their partners to plan. Local authorities have been given additional funding from the Scottish Government that was a one-off grant that is about supporting resettlement teams for their continued employment of staff, but also bringing up properties to standards. Whether it is repairs and renovations or equipping houses that are otherwise, they would not have had the funds to do. However, that is a one-off grant, and it is different and separate to the funding tariff that would be attached to arrivals in a local authority area. Does that answer your question? Yes, that is very helpful. Thanks, Gail. Will we go to Pat Tocart next, just around resources and any gaps that you might have identified? Thank you, Mr Golden. Part of gaps will emerge as we move along. We have really quite well-established structures and resources currently in place, but that will be required to change. We will require to move with the change in the demand, particularly when we go in terms of some of the earlier questions around follow-up visits and follow-up safeguarding arrangements and how we undertake that. We will all require additional resources to do that. As has already been pointed out, there are moneys proposed, but we have yet to see the finer detail on that and how that will translate. What we have at the moment is some moneys that will be available for enhancing the resource. That is non-recurring money at the moment, so we have the obvious challenges associated with non-recurring money, but that all will only take us to the end of the current financial year. That makes it difficult in terms of recruitment for staff, but will it nonetheless assist us in some way? There are a lot of challenges around that, both financially and making sure that we are able to complement the demand that comes our way. I will echo what Gail said in relation to the lack of funding guidance and how we find it difficult to plan when we do not have that information. Based on our previous resettlement schemes, the concern for us would be support for those in rural communities. Currently, our Afghan resettlement is going well, but the challenge for the Afghan families further north for their health needs particularly is almost a three-hour, six-hour return journey to Raymore hospital. I know that presents a real challenge especially for our pregnant women and that is something that we will not know until people arrive. However, if we have pregnant women and there are midwife appointments and scanning appointments, that is a whole day to go and access appointments at Raymore. I know that our Afghan families have said that that is really challenging. If there is not much that we can do, if the services are not available locally, they have to travel. It is a cost to them and we are not aware whether the funding will support that cost. I know that TV screening is something that has been done previously for resettlements that may be needed particularly for children. Sometimes we find that quite challenging and services are not always available to do that. We are still catching up on some of our TV screening from our previous Afghan resettlement schemes. Health and funding for health and particularly for that in our rural communities is proving a challenge when we are so geographically spread up here in Highland. However, our strategy group is meeting regularly and we are doing all that we can to put contingencies in place to address the challenges that will be coming towards us based on our experiences through previous resettlements. Thanks for that. That is very helpful. Elaine Ritchie is a similar case at Perth and Cynros. Yes, very similar to what Gail and Hazel has just outlined. Lack of classification on funding makes planning really difficult. However, the Scottish Government did identify the living million, which has been shared with the 32 local authorities. We have used that pot of money to put fixed-term posts in. We have been using resources from our current services, which are heavily stretched, particularly our homeless services and our welfare rights teams, so that money, the one-off grant, was really welcomed. However, we need clarification on the funding to allow us to resource it and provide that welfare check, the safeguard and follow-up, but also to support communities, because there is a lot of goodwill out there. If we do not support those communities, it will fall on local authorities to pick that up, so it is really important that we get the support out into communities. Thank you for that. Thank you, panel, and back to you, convener. Thank you very much. I am looking to see if there are any further questions from committee. I wonder if I could ask a question about a group that already experiences a significant amount of discrimination in the travelling community. We know that there is a large population of Romani travellers in the Ukrainian area. Proposially, we should be seeing them coming through on the visa programmes, but I wondered if the local authorities had their specialist services in that area ready to engage with families that are coming from that community. Thank you, convener. It is an issue that we have been made aware of more broadly across the UK. I think that one of the challenges that the travelling community is facing is that the accommodation that they can provide is not considered appropriate in terms of the House for Ukraine visa scheme. In COSLA, in the same team that I work with, we have a policy manager and officer that works around that, so we are working with the travelling community to ensure that, if there are any issues that we are raising, however, at the moment it does not seem to be a significant issue in Scotland, although I do not doubt that that may change. Therefore, we are making sure that those channels of communication for them to report into us so that we can raise in terms of a policy issue. If family, friends, etc. in the Ukraine want to come to be with their friends and family here, whether they are travelling community or not, that should be facilitated in whatever way we can. We have specialist services in Glasgow that we will be aware of, particularly in relation to the Romani community. That is the service that we will continue to draw upon for the role and expertise and skills in that area of work. As Gail has pointed out, it remains a work in progress that we will need to address as and when those situations arrive. We have quite a large population of travelling community within Perth and Conross, so we have quite a lot of specialist services already in place, but like what the others have said, we have not experienced any issues, but it is just keeping a watch and brief and keeping our colleagues alerted and monitoring the situation. I will echo what my colleagues have said. We have a strong travelling community up here in Highland and a dedicated team who work with them and support them. We are keeping very aware of any communication with any Romani communities willing to relocate from Ukraine, but I am not aware of that happening yet. Is there anything that the panel wishes to raise with the committee today that we have not covered in the questions? I am not seeing any indication that someone wants to come in, which I am taking that as a good thing, but thank you very much for your attendance this morning. That has been really helpful. We are now going to move into private session with final agenda item.