 So my name is Bree. I'm part of the coordinating committee of Cairo's here and the local Cairo's There's a number of folks who put a lot of effort into tonight and I just sort of jumped on board So I just want to highlight the work of those folks Yeah, and welcome everyone here to this really Really important topic and yeah, I'm so grateful for those who are coming and sharing today for several points is here So thanks so much Yeah, it's really important that we we talk about The land that we're in and we're going to talk a lot about Brandon tonight And a lot of us here are from Winnipeg and from other places So just it's always super important to acknowledge The land that we're on and this gathering is is centered in Treaty one and treaty two territories Which are the ancestral lands of the Dakota, Nakota, Anishinaabe, Salta, Ojibwe and Cree nations as well as the homeland of the Métis nation It's also important to acknowledge that our energy comes from treaties three and five And that there's participants here tonight who are from a whole bunch of places also. So We're grateful and be welcome Yeah, we're so happy to have everyone here. Great. Thanks Linda Yeah, I really love that they see everyone in the chat so I like to pass it off to Debbie for The offer in tobacco and introducing our elders Thanks Brie and Welcome to your new position uh I just want to introduce our honorary elder for our series Marge Raselli who is a respected elder from Sioux Valley Dakota Nation And she uh agreed to Be our elder for this series and if anyone finds any of the presentations to be stressful or triggering or difficult I would encourage you just to contact Marge in the chat box and She will offer support in whatever way is appropriate. I'd also like to present virtually Marge with tobacco and we present this with thanks for um her presence her teachings and What we will learn from her tonight. So um, I'll get this to you Marge Thanks for being with us would also like to pass it off to Yvonne and uh And uh all the elders from canora. Hi good evening everybody So, um, I'm here with um Elders from the 3d3 territory. We have Tommy K We're having supper by the way. So it's felt so delicious in here And we have elder Kathy Lindsey and our other elder Margaret Hunter So we're very, um, thankful to be here this evening and um looking forward to the presentation much I want to say thank you And welcome to everybody I have some sweet grass here That I'm making a little smudge with And this presentation by Catherine, I know Catherine quite well. So I want to say hello and And welcome to her on her presentation I have been a part of the work that she's doing And it means a lot to me the work that she's undertaken as we talk about As she presents about the anomalies or The burial sites that have been found at the Brandon residential school There are two sites there And before we started the work there, there were four Elder women we went over there and we prayed and smudged the area and Talked to the spirits of those that who were Returned back to mother earth at that location named and unnamed and We invited them to go on to the spirit world and to Not be there but to make that journey that sacred journey that we almost would make And some were unacknowledged. They were hidden and secret and buried so We did a lot of work there and that work is still ongoing and I honor the work that Catherine is doing and I've been looking forward to the continuation of her work, but with The pandemic things have changed, but I'm very much interested in the work that she still does so I wanted to acknowledge her in the work she's doing so I'd like to pray and Acknowledge the spirits of the ones that You know in that area and went on to this sacred site Sacred place from there And I always like to say my prayers to creator god in my own language You know, I I do a lot of prayers in English too because I'm lay clergy for the Anglican church but when I Pray about certain things. I like to do it in my own language I Know The church Thank you. Thanks so much. So Catherine is pursuing a doctoral degree at Simon Frazier University in British Columbia in Burnaby, British Columbia She's enrolled in an interdisciplinary program that allows her to work with faculty in the departments of indigenous studies and archaeology And is affiliated with the Center for Forensic Research Current work stems from research started during her MA at the University of Manitoba in part done in partnership with Sioux Valley Dakota Nation Focus on locating ceremonies at the Brandon Indian Residential School in Manitoba And Darien is currently currently working on Bachelor of Arts with major and native studies And minor in anthropology at Brandon University Originally from Manitoba strong roots in Sioux Valley Garden Hill Darien is the community liaison for the Brandon Indian Residential School Cemetery project In this role helps facilitate respectful collaboration between Sioux Valley Dakota Nation and University partners. So Again, thank you so much. We're honored for you to be here and Good evening everyone um, so Tonight we're going to be talking about our presentation addressing the legacy of Brandon the Brandon residential school exploring the role of community liaison Myself and Catherine Nichols will be presenting The authors are Darien Kendi Catherine Nichols Alden Yawar and Emily Holland John Albanese Deanna Redder De Jong Yong Kim Fugira Dale Blackbird and Hugo Cardioso um, we want to acknowledge the land that we Virtually we acknowledge all indigenous peoples traditional homelands in Canada Specifically the land that we are currently situated on in modern-day city Brandon Manitoba Which is the traditional homelands of the Anishinbeg Cree, Ojikri, Dakota, Mekis and Dene peoples um, we just wanted to um, let everyone know that uh Our talk isn't it's an important talk But that it we're going to talk about soundaries. Um, and we're going to talk about the students and they'll be photos and um This might be triggering so we just wanted to encourage you to um, you know if You need to turn off your video if you need to leave we understand we support you As was said before Marge is here for you to talk within the chat, but we also wanted to let you know that the national The truth and reconciliation commission they have a 24-hour line that you can call through as well So I just wanted to start out with sort of the the larger People that we're working with We have indigenous and non-indigenous faculty members And we're really lucky because we're working with uh, Sion Fraser University Brandon University Here and Windsor University and all these professors Bring important skills to this project. Um, and and with great Yeah, we're just really grateful to have their support There you go, Darian. I'll pass it back to you. Yeah, so, uh, We would just like to introduce the students behind the project. So myself as a community liaison Catherine Nichols um And came through a fear gear and fear care and Dale Blackbird The current research team is comprised of both Simon Fraser University and Brandon University students Really quickly. Um, I just wanted to say that, uh, I was born and raised in branding and now I live in work here and uh, I just I show this picture here because, um Uh, it's my very first archaeology excavation and it was just a really important, uh moment in my life Uh, a little bit about myself. I was born in Winnipeg I now live and work and go to school in Brandon. I am a member of garden hills first nation in northern manitoba um The how I came about to get the position was that, um I was uh in one of Dr. Holland's class and she's One of the anthropologists that was working on this case and that's how We got connected and I did know a fair bit of the background of the the the school and The the project itself because I did attend the community gatherings and my grandpa was a counselor at the time. So yeah, um Personal connections, uh, so again personal connection to the Brandon residential school When I was for Just before my brother was born um It was I believe it was in 1999 my mom went to uh Went for a school field trip and then it was to the brandon residential school It was the rubble right before a couple years before it was torn down in 2000 um I Afterwards my mom went for that field trip. She took me and my my stepdad up there and I really remember feeling something when I went there and remembering and my mom Looked at me So Like she's like, how do you know all this and I was just like, I don't know I just I just know and I remember having dreams about the The brandon residential school and it wasn't like nightmares or anything. It was just It was just this weird connection that I developed with The land and the school itself. Um, I'll pass it over to Catherine Yeah, it was it was interesting that you had such a unique experience For me, I took the school bus past the residential school every day And I really didn't know What it was it wasn't until the school was actually torn down in 2000 and it was my parents that took me up to the site and I don't know. It was just sort of weird that I that was when I realized it was a school for Indigenous children I just thought that was really strange that there would be a separate school And so that sort of spurred my curiosity and why I wanted to learn more about the school and and about its history okay, so Um, I just wanted to briefly give you some quick background about how I got started doing this work um basically quickly, um, I was introduced to Like you would be considered an elder in the community But maybe just an important person to talk to about these sensitive and cultural things because I realized that there It was probably a cemetery associated with the brand residential school And I didn't know how to go about starting that work And so it was really interesting because I thought it would be sort of an intimidating and formal process, but really The my community Contact just said, you know, let's go to starbucks. Let's chat about this a little bit And so it was there that like I took a formal letter to outline what I was thinking about and what to do with the research And how we might be able to Find the cemetery and and the boundaries of the cemetery But it was also a really important time to start Talking about cultural concerns. Um, you know, how can you best proceed with this work without? Without causing more harm So it was really important and foundational meeting Um, and I continue to think about it and I continue to think about the advice He's given me and as we move forward with this work so, uh We're going to be talking about the obviously the indian residential schooling system in canada Dark secret or sad chapter. Um, it's state funded and church administered They forcibly removed children the residential schools were Eight from 1828 to 1996 was the last one that closed down, but there was Uh, a history before 1828 for different schools The specific residential school that we're in question is obviously the brown and indian residential school. It was In operation from 1995 to 1972 Management was methodist united and united church Um, education included agriculture academic Student and as it was used as a student residence um, the recruitment was from uh, alberta, Saskatchewan, minotoba, ontario go back and none of it I'm just trying to remember what slides are mine. I think this one's mine One unique thing about um, the brine residential school was that it was strategically placed um, we have it on the outskirts of Of brandon and it's adjacent to what was called a brandon experimental farm. Um, now it's called the brand research center um, but this this would play a unique role and an important role in The work that the students would do at the school and how the school became sort of a landmark flagship uh institution that brandon was very proud of at the at the time Um And just one is like I like showing these historical photos to give you an idea of what it would have looked like um, so the the brandon research center itself was established in 18 In 86 and it was one of the five original experimental farms established in canada. I I included these pictures to show that The hard work that the the children were doing It was strategically placed next to the agricultural center or vice versa To help um for cheap labor for an extra hand with agricultural training and it um If you look at the bottom right picture, you can understand how hard the the lives of the children were Understanding that the children are probably about six or seven eight years old and they're young boys making The men are making the young boys do men's work, right? And it's very hard training and and it's just It uh, yeah You know, I I appreciate during speaking to the oral history and the stories that were told about the The extreme amount of work that students had to do And it it's unique in the sense that like for brandon. I'll just speak quickly about the archival research because for brandon they had purebred cattle and horses brought in from ontario in Team so they're starting to sort of set the scene about the caliber of the school and it also brings in a lot of Financial gain for this for the school as they they breed and sell purebred animals and the picture on the Like on the top here with the cows in front of the bridge Is a picture of the boys at the brandon winter fair And if the caption underneath the archive says, uh, you know first prize car lot cattle so There's a lot going on in these photos. That's why we try to show you Sort of what's happening with the boys and the girls and the things that would have been done to keep the school going again, the experiences are very different than What have been non-indigenous students? As you can see here, there's a graduating class in 1947 They appear to be It's very staged in in my opinion With that being said The different experiences they varied from the era to era and then also from a school to school Catherine you wanted to Talk more to the experiences or um I think maybe I'll just say that when I started this work when I spoke to people in the community People often said that the brandon residential school wasn't that bad You know, there were more notorious schools out there and The more research I did the more I found that not to be true and that This school is is an example of all of the abuses that happen at the school for the majority of students So we could talk a lot about that, but we just wanted to highlight Highlight the students because that's what's driving this project is how to honor them now so um so I guess This is also sort of reiterating. We're trying to bring you back to the project and the work that we're doing How do you find a relational starting point? How do you start this kind of work? And basically what happened was Once uh my community contact It took the letter and and the and the conversation that I had to chief and council They agreed to meet with me to talk with me more about it and It was interesting because You know at these that these meetings To discuss the project I almost thought they would like give me a yes or no answer And I thought it would just be very like No, you're not indigenous. You can't do this work or yes. Go ahead and find the cemeteries but instead We had really important discussions and I realized that There was more than just the cemetery search that was needed So in talking with chief and council, I realized that we needed to add an archival aspect I wasn't just going to go into the archives and look for the names of children that have passed away at the school I was also just going to look for photographs because I wanted to chief and council wanted to have a learning center of some sort and have the photos of the students displayed so that You know if elders or survivors came to the school they could start to identify these children in these photos And give meaning back to the land And to the students Another thing that we did was we had it a search site And I thought we would just look for the one cemetery But the reality is that there was a lot more going on and Basically We looked behind the school There was concerns from survivors and from elders that there was depressions behind the school and so Yeah, we just added another search site and then another thing that we added was Interviews with survivors and I did Thing to very many. I only spoke with survivors who wanted to share their story who were ready to share their story Um, but important things came out of those meetings and conversations because What I learned was that students that were doing laundry Had to take the the clothing and the bedding out to the back of the school to hang on the lines And that they weren't allowed to go in certain places of the property because the teachers told them there were unmarked graves there And so this really did help support and narrow The field work that we ended up doing in 2012 and 13 So basically all I wanted to say was that The research design the plan and carrying it all out was done collaboratively And it definitely shapes and expanded the initial The project that I wanted to do but I think that the extra time and effort was Was worth it to make the work meaningful for C valley decodernation Um, I can't remember Darian. Do you want me to talk to this one? Uh, just we wanted to show Just yeah. Oh, yeah, this is this is Okay We just want we just had a map to give you an idea of like what places we're talking about So we have this school highlighted in red Um, when we have like the grand valley road, I don't know if you can see my cursor Over here is where walmart is and home people. Um, so if you're coming down the north hill And um, the first school cemetery is located near the Asinaboyne river The second school cemetery is located north and it's on Um A brand research center property now And then the third section the third site that we looked at is just north and east of the school So just sort of give you a visual of where we're talking about Are you okay if I keep talking Darian? Yeah, it's I'm totally okay. I feel Jump in whenever you want. Yeah So I'm going to focus today's talk on the second school cemetery because that's where I had access to when I was doing my thesis research And I was given permission by agriculture canada to go onto their site and to Do non-invasive work everyone didn't want me to do any excavation. It was just non-invasive Um, and before we even got started My community contact from Sioux valley declaration came out and he did a smudge with us And in the field team and that was really important and we also did a a smudge at the end of the field work And then when we were at that site, um, we started talking about where the the amar graves might be inside the cemetery fence I mean, you can see it's really overgrown Um, and it was really hard to tell But we actually we started talking about maybe the fence wasn't where the fence was meant To be maybe it was supposed to be out further because there were depressions outside the cemetery fence Um, so I just wanted to kind of show you the non-invasive search methods that I used Um, it ranged, uh, we used very, um cost-effective Search probes and we're just looking for soil compaction and different vegetation We used ground penetrating radar. It uses radio waves to detect anomalies. So if you're, um, Your soil stratigraphy is disturbed. It should be able to pick up that disturbance And we also use em 38 which uses electromagnetic ground conductivity To do sort of the same things is to detect any changes in the soil And then finally we used an unmanned aerial vehicle. Do not call it a drone. The rcmp does not like that But anyways And we we are able to take it up and take some photos of the residential school cemetery So this This I just want to kind of show you this photo The photo is not It's only showing one foot For the ground penetrating radar data, so it's not going very deep at all But I just wanted to show you that because there was concerns that the There might be unmarked rays outside the cemetery fence. We were able to do non-invasive surveys Like right here highlighted in red is the cemetery fence And we did the same sort of size of cemetery just all the way around To see if we could find any anomalies and to see if we should be extending the fence Um, and we also looked behind here But what you're seeing is a lot of tree roots and that really affected the the gpr reading Um And I just I showed this just to give you an idea um What is it what the 3d data looks like? And um, and basically what we will see is we'll start seeing these red hot spots and things like that that show a disturbance in the soil Um, so I just wanted to quickly give a quick summary um You know when we went to the school cemetery the karen had a date on it it said 19 29 to 57 But when I do did my archival research, it's probable that the cemetery opened much sooner as early as 1912 Um, so that that makes a big difference in the cemetery's operation time period um And if we consider those dates, um while the karen in the cemetery says there's only 11 uh students who passed away in their Buried there um the archives actually shows that there's more There's about 24 names Of people that have they died at the school during that time period and they're likely buried there And so for the burials when we went there there was 12 Um wooden crosses there were white wooden crosses But with the ground penetrating radar and em 38 data Is more likely that there's in between 18 and 24 graves at this site So just in doing this work, um We're We're affirming and we're validating survivor and community concerns Yeah Darian did you want to talk about this slide? Uh, so the total names from the archival records State 75 names Spanning over 15 indigenous communities in manitoba um second school cemetery forensic survey have 12 marked graves and 14 unmarked graves And that's the result of the invest the initial investigation there. Um Sorry Are you ready? Yeah And uh, so when doing these this whole project We have to keep in mind that we have to be flexible be patient Be available be realistic be realistic um We want We want to honor both non-indigenous and indigenous science and understand that oral history collaborate like collaboratively with um Kind of western academia Used together can we can uh confirm both? Both sides using the different ways of of knowing which are indigenous in the facts of like Oral history Different sciences are stuff like that. Number seven is being mindful and be an advocate for The project itself For the indigenous children that we're fighting to to be found and Yeah um So this is my slide Basically, I just wanted to say that um, I was really honored to be invited and come talk at one of the annual survivor gatherings that su valley hosts It's on the brand residential school property And it's a really important opportunity for me to To present what we've done, but also to to listen to community members and their concerns and get and get guidance on the way to go forward Yeah Anything else you want to add to that daryon? Uh, it's just funny how uh, pardon me little things aligned because at these gatherings, um it was also How uh catherine and I connected for the first time and it was uh somebody locked their keys in the car and catherine was ready to call ca and I was like no I can I can open it with the uh cohen or something and and then we crossed paths like that and um About three three years or so later We got connected on the the project itself. And so um I think I I was meant to be on the project and help work with catherine to Kind of uh Work through reconciliation in a way that Um In a way that I can in a in a capacity that I am able to so I'm really thankful for the survivor gathering I'm not I was really intrigued by the the talk that day And that's how I uh come to know um a lot of the background before I uh before I joined the the project in uh in uh capacity, I guess So moving forward, um from When the project started, um, we had They hired me in 2020 and then with covet and stuff. Um We have to kind of put the the the Archaeological dig on hold um With that being said, we needed a committee of elders to help us guide the the project in a respectful way um again, um covet kind of put um Kind of a temporary pause, but i'm optimistic that we can as soon as we can um get uh have gatherings and uh Per uh, we can pursue another couple meetings, but we had our first meeting in september I believe or was it august i believe It was it was technically august, but we had another one in september before okay was the red zone yeah in um part of me in august and those meetings with uh the community of the elders is uh one of the examples of um community collaboration with the project and how Catherine is putting the respect of the cultural Um influence ahead of the project itself and uh, i'm very honored to be working with her on with that and to be uh an advocate for the project and to um continue collaborating with su valley and again i'm just being super optimistic uh that uh as soon as um these uh these limitations are Lifted we can get back on track were you gonna Talk to the slide there. Yeah, I can again. Sorry. Uh, so again the future of the project continued collaboration with the project partners I as soon as it's lifted. I want to start seeing bi-weekly committee committee meetings um further archival research um something i forgot to add was the um the survivor um interviews and I just wanted to note again the project is structured to allow flexibility and collaboration was su valley and other indigenous nations Just reiterating the collaborative research design We advocate for indigenous families and communities. Um, we wish to Formerly protect these uh cemetery sites unarmed um pardon me honor unmarked graves We want to help relatives find their deceased loved ones um With that being said we have to be realistic and um Understand that it may not be within the cultural parameters of the traditions of dakota or The other indigenous groups that they're uh that are affected With that being said that's what gives me motivation to and motivation pardon me motivation and The interest to um work further with this project and to uh hopefully one day we can um Mark those um one thing I just wanted to add about this photo. Um It was actually at a survivor gathering so um Uh and they're the unity riders And it was just really powerful The the photo doesn't capture what was going on. Um, but the Right riders came up to the residential school site And they they just the horses went around the site three times with the drums going And it was just such a transformation. Um, and I know the two valley is working very hard to change this place from a Place of pain to a place of healing so I just wanted to speak to that photo um because there's there's a lot going on in that photo um that um I think is worth uh worth talking about um, I think durian might have left for a second. Um, so I'm I might just close Um, we just wanted to you have a bunch of people to thank. Um Sorry, durian's just sending me he joined back durian. Do you want to close then? I don't know where he is Okay Anyway, um, okay Um Anyways, all of these people made this work possible and I just wanted to acknowledge all of them. Um And and just making this work possible. It wouldn't have been like Yeah, just wouldn't have been possible without everybody. So thank you very much um I think right now we wanted to open it up for questions and discussion But also we'd be really happy just to hear about um people's personal connection to the brand residential site site Things that uh that they remember about the brand residential school or um questions that they had for us Either way we'd be happy with what anybody would like to share So thanks Darian you're back Yeah, I'm so sorry. I got a phone call on my cell phone And it when I Put and it yeah, so sorry. Yeah, so I just wanted to apologize We wanted to open up the questions and discussion and also if you're Wanting to share this is um Safe space and also I don't feel obligated to Yeah, I can stop sharing my screen. Hey, sure. Yeah Well, I'll I'll first start by adding my thanks to both of you for Sharing what you've done what you have shared and it's Clear that you've taken a lot of intentionality to the work that you're doing Um, so thank you for that. There's uh, just a few questions that are beginning to come in the chat Um, and I'll I'll just read those and if there's others have additional questions, please type them in there Or if uh, it doesn't feel like you can do it typing it then you can let me know that as well But the first one is um, were the were there accurate records that were Records that match the sites found, where were they? I'm curious about the other two sites as well Yeah, okay, so um Talking about archives. It was particularly difficult to track those down and It was difficult to track down For certain years One of the really good records um, it's called the quarterly returns. So they're taking track of attendance But during those records, they also mentioned if children go to hospital or if they pass away and we only have 16 years Of those records and I the school operated for over 70 years So it just doesn't give us a a full enough snapshot of what's going on Um, so that's why when Darian and I say, you know, we have 75 names We knowingly Admit that this is just a working list And that um, we might not We might be missing Uh families and and they're they're children So it's a very good question and I wish I had more archive access to records Thanks Thanks another question. Do you know the identities of the people who died there and do you think other IRS may also have unmarked graves? It's a good question. Um So we do have we have names of students Um And in some cases we have home communities. So we know where they came from um Sometimes the way that the principal's reported Student attendance and student deaths was just with numbers And it's interesting because the number of reported deaths per year does not match the recorded names of deaths per year So that's also an an issue um With regards to the broader issue of like canada residential schools and cemeteries um Yeah, yeah, I think quite a few will have them In the trc's final report. Um, they said that If the school opened before 1950 it's very likely that they would have a cemetery associated with the school So I think that's if you if we think about the 139 that are federally recognized I think that leaves about 90 to 95 schools that likely have cemeteries to give you an idea of what it is on a national scale Thanks Um, do you know if some students uh, did some students go to the school in the city of brandon? Oh Okay, that's a great question, which I don't have very much archival records But just speaking with Friends and family and their friends um People remember having residential school Students in their schools So I think it was part of this transition where the residential school Functioned more as a residence in the 1950s 60s 70s And um students were more Skooled in the public like the brandon public schools um, but I mean survivors would probably know that way more accurately than I do Thanks, yeah Um for the records that you do have where there are causes of death listed at all. Do you know? Yeah, yeah, we sometimes there's causes of death um I don't know if you want me to go into it, but sometimes we do know why they they passed away May I please uh include that or add that Not all the gravesites were Children that attended the school There's a couple from the The mental health uh hospital down the road and there's uh Some records that indicate that there was actually uh adults that were buried there That were from the sanatorium for the tv sanatoriums Just seeing what other is here. What is happening? um So is it what is happening with the graves across the road from the residential school? Anything happening with that? Well, that's a very good question. Um so I think it was I want to say it was 2018. We actually got permission to do a non-invasive survey Um, and we were able to find the cemetery and delineate the boundaries And so it's uh working with the landowner to fence that area off Um, and then hopefully work with them the northern nations that the children are involved with To find a way that they want to commemorate that place So that's an ongoing An ongoing project that kind of because of kovid, um hasn't Been picked up yet, but hopefully we can do that again soon um I wanted to add that there is concrete proof that there was a cemetery across and that was the First original cemetery Presently it is a campground um I I can talk more to it. I I just uh, it's I just feel so disgusted by the the actions of both Brandon The city of brandon because their hands aren't clean in that Land transfer. Um, there's uh maps indicating that the indian cemetery that was There beforehand and I don't know Catherine. You can talk properly more to it. So you like yeah um I was just thinking of like the the land transfers itself. It's almost a legacy of like Slowly erasing the history of the school with each map the cemetery That's clearly labeled the cemetery Slowly becomes a memorial garden And so that becomes questionable Then for landowners. Oh, do I actually have a cemetery here? Or is this just a place where a caron with a monument was placed? And so and then with further passing of time All of these landmarks are erased, you know, it flooded but also people's memory the community memory is lost Cross So it's part of that process of remembering and honoring these the schools and these sites Thanks, Catherine Building on what you just said is there a vision for what kind of markers or remembrance would be put in those sites? And can the sites be visited as well as another question? Do you want to talk to that Darian at all? Um, maybe I could I could talk about site access um because that's been an issue um for sure it was Was a problem with the the first um school cemetery that was by the Ascending Boyd River because it's a private campground Um as well with the agriculture Canada um When they owned it, um They had cattle on the on the property and so it was it was protected Like it was locked but almost to keep the public safe In that sense But it was a real barrier for people who wanted to go through and do ceremony and to visit these sites and and and so um Right now the land is being leased to Sue Valley decodernation. And so I believe that if you were to ask keeping counsel When you could get access but if there are a few gates and you have to drive through to the site on a dirt road so Yeah, and that's that's really been a problem because of the different land ownership and jurisdiction and how For like You would have to ask different people for different visitation, but with that being said um We we don't want that. You know what I mean? Like we want to be able to honor the students any way that we we can and doing ceremony is an essential part of that Yeah Yeah, and then to speak to the part where you asked about um, what sort of um Like memorials will be put up. Um, I think that's like Too soon for us to talk about but in the sense that it was like very much on the front of our minds Is that working with su valley decoda elders and and doing this outreach soon For other communities that were affected. Um, I really hope that they they guide us and what they what they need what they want and how they see I'll say they see memorialization For their children Excellent. Yeah, thanks um Another question is asking when did the shifting of the label shifting of the labeling of the site happen Do you know what that's referring to? Yeah I'm um for the cemeteries. Do you think is that what that's? Um, I think so but julie if you want to clarify that you can Or you can unmute if you want Yes, that's what I meant. I was wondering about that When you said that the I gathered that the city was changing how the site was labeled and I wondered what the What the time period was uh, when that was happening when that began Yeah, so I don't have specifics. I just know that in 1980 Um, there's a plan of the site and it clearly labels the cemetery as a cemetery And then somewhere in that transition um, there's the It's public maps of this of the site from the city Um, and it and it gets changed to a memorial site and those maps don't have dates on when they were created Um, but I think they were circulated around the 2000s. Um, but I can't say for certain There's pictures from the early 2000s that Um Before the flood there was uh, very clearly gate part of me offense area where They were having some sort of ceremony or Memorial type event and you can clearly see that it is blocked off and then the following year It doesn't appear to be anything there and the Fast forward to 2018 There's actually where the the maps indicate. There's actually Um a camper trailer on it when they went to go take pictures and do the very minimal non-invasive Uh research that they they did there that day. Um, there was Structures and different stuff that wasn't supposed to be there Yeah Thanks Um So a question that comes in which you can Share about your thoughts on this. So with these cemeteries Were they hidden in such a way to hide the truth about the numbers of children that that were that passed away there and hide What was going on in the school? Was that evident? So If I think about it from like a system perspective um The government just didn't create policies or provide the financial Support to keep these cemeteries Running proper like I I have a letter from the principal asking for money to have a fence and to Get headstones and the department just simply says no that's on you if you want to do it the school has to pay for it So most of the time That is sort of how it Worked is that it wasn't the department's responsibility. It was the individual school's responsibility. And then thinking about it now Um, there was no government policies to transfer any sort of perpetual care for these these cemeteries So there's nothing in place that once you know once Residential schools shut down and the land starts being parceled off and sold off There was no mechanism in place to have formal provincial registration of cemeteries or formal municipal protections and things like that and and so that is a big part from a legis like a Thinking about it from the way that the system works. Um, but darien do you want to talk about? things about So like like yeah, like now, um They definitely didn't make it easy So it would be evident that they were definitely trying to hide something um, for example, uh, the records are housed in otawa um for the the different schools for the indian agents um, a lot of records were kind of um They were In significant right like they weren't there wasn't a whole lot of information. Um Yeah, like they definitely didn't make it easy like our our the archival stuff is like The the notes and the all the all the files that katherine goes through. It's not easy work No, and I mean like if I think about it a little bit more in the forensic context and not just the records The fact that survivors told me that they knew when they were students in the 60s that they're unmarked raised on the school It lends your your thoughts to think why why Does that allow then and what what was going on that would make that happen? anyways, sorry, I didn't say that very eloquently, but yeah And understanding that the first cemetery is non-existent now. It's definitely um, evident of something that is trying to be kind of erased from history Yeah, or forgotten and that's what why we do the work that we do Is to let we're fighting for the children that don't have a voice and that are Still there, you know that never got to go home yeah Yeah, thanks for that. It's definitely complex and also shows how important this research is So thank you for that A couple other questions that came around One was about has there been requests for repatriation of remains to home communities? And also how is su valley first nations using the land now? So requests for repatriation that is a deep question And I can say even before I started this work When I got going I Reached out to the united church and I worked with diane haigland who used to be the archivist in winnipeg at the university winnipeg and She was great help and a wealth of information and she was involved in an instance Where a family from a northern community wanted to bring their child home? And they went out to the cemetery site and none of the cemetery plots are labeled And so they didn't know which grave was their child So they couldn't do anything and that was that was before like dna really got going and stuff like that now So With with all the science and technology is sort of why I wanted to have all of these professors And universities on our team because we have dna and isotope specialists that can hopefully help us If if it comes to the point where families do want their children brought home Yeah There was another part to that question about how the site's being used right now um I don't know if i'm the right person to speak to it About what's going on right now. I know that they're they're in the process of working on turning it into a healing center. I think but Maybe I don't know. I'm looking at marge marge. You might have a better Do you know what's going on? um anyways If someone else wanted to come back next week or in two weeks next week Because marge will be talking to us about the plans for the site Um and sue valley's intentions around that. No good. So that we have a whole session on that. So that's great. Thank you That leaves nicely. Yeah um elder time acusic from Panora wanted to uh share some comments So I'll open up to him No, go ahead. Yeah Each other's now big Can you hear him? I Don't really know how to begin this but it's far from over My parents Dear parents my grandparents took him out because of the treatment A lot of these people Were said that good things would happen to the children And many of the children not knowing that it was their last Time getting out of school getting out of their home never to return A lot of these children as we heard were beaten to death Ran away from school. They never made it once they either froze Or drowned Or run over by the train And something has to be done. I mean it's far from being over These were children and these were servants of god Why did they allow these kind of things to happen? I myself had my back broken I'm 76 years old now And I am still angry Because of what happened to me. It's pretty hard for me to talk about it and even nowadays as as I I try to speak to you I met a lot of people in Winnipeg when they had this All gatherings of elders. I was really happy to see a lot of them. Thank you It's far from being over. I believe that all the Anishinaabe Should bring their beliefs and we should start talking about what can we do about these kind of things We were told never to disturb People that have passed on The reserves I'm talking about the graveyards I'm talking about The hydro came there and ran over to countless of graves just to put the line through Again that that is Inhuman I wish I had more time like I got lots to say I want I want to hear some of your stories, which is you know Similar to ours. So it as if it was been planted We also have a Kathy Lindsey We also have a burial site here. It's a popper's burial site and It's mostly made up of unmarked graves of all ages Residential students school students of all ages and It is situated between a dirt road And the railway tracks We were told Many years ago that we were not to touch or disturb any anyone that's in within that cemetery One person that's in that cemetery is my mom And every year I try to I visit the the cemetery. I offer tobacco I think I have safe prayers and I also sing songs, but we still are not allowed Right Going in into into the the the cemetery itself and to see it I can tell you right now that you would be shedding tears or you would be Very emotional in regards to anger sadness all those And I am every time I go there and Knowing that we cannot disturb anybody and I understand that we have to respect We have to respect our loved ones that have passed on But knowing that their spirits and that their gravesites have meshed have fallen and in because of swamp land have fallen meshed into one another That couldn't be any more disturbing and sad in regards to our people in which Thank you for sharing that Just wondering if anybody else Wanted to share something at this time Feel free to if there is someone that has something you'd like to share feel free to unmute Uh, I have an experience. I can share with you Um, I'm on on seeded danish navid territory in One of my held during sheplo, ontario. There's there was a school also there They found the cemetery Because the ministry want to retrieve trees And the cemetery is on the other side of the street or where the school was and Some of the elders there's two communities. They're the kri energy boy And they they went to my elder and said we have to do something. They're they're gonna remove the trees And we know that our brothers and sisters are there So, uh, she found she went she fought with them. It was a big argument and She literally went on the site and stopped the men Working with the machines because the wishing the machines were digging And turns out that yes, there were a lot of little children there of all ages It was about 15 graves with many bodies and each graves um A river going down there apparently it with some years it really dig out Some of those graves. So they think that they lost many of Some of the children that were buried there, but um, it was quite Very very hard to go and and be there when I entered um Yeah, I was overwhelmed my husband. We were all crying and the energy there Uh, grandmothers the some some of the grandmothers they go every year. They do ceremonies And there's one grave that they really were able to know the name um That was a last child that was buried there and what what I found that was very hard is That we talking with elders we found out that some Girls were buried there with babies their own babies So that was very traumatizing So with the ministry and everything They gathered the ministry were like, oh my god, it's true like because they still wanted to deny that it was there um Many elders came up and then they said I know my brother and my sister is there Their name were such and such so they were able to give put some names in and little graves Someone brought a brought a canoe there to honor the children But finally it turns out that there's more than 60 children there and now there's a fence around it and like They don't like people to go in Just to go and you know sneak and peek it's nothing for that but If you want to go there and pray They let people go in especially family but uh all the two groups of Nations they decide to leave it there And it's beautiful because the trees had grown up So it was never never declared as a real cemetery for the school It was always a hidden area So now it was declared as a cemetery. So um It's quite overwhelming and to know that in every of those schools there's Cemetery is like that. It's very very heartbreaking. Yeah, very sad. So Yeah, so I like to go and and pray when I go there and think of those children it's uh The east to the west say it's the same It's that's very sad That's all I want to share Thank you. Thank you carol um If there are any other quick questions feel free to put them in um Oh, so there's one more that came from elder kathy who just shared with us just a minute ago He she asked how do you cope throughout this project physically mentally spiritually and emotionally? For yourself, I think Catherine and Darian as well. That's a good question. Um, I don't know how I cope. Um Maybe it's part of like, uh, the academic training. Um, we're supposed to be a forensic anthropologist. You're supposed to be You know Objective which is a terrible word But that's sort of training and like emotionally distancing yourself is part of the training But the more you do this work the more you realize that It just needs so much compassion. It just needs so much. Um It just needs the energy that I can give it So that's what we try to do and like Darian and I I don't know. Maybe I'm saying too much But we've had good days and bad days. Uh, you know, we'll leave elder meetings and we'll just be so excited Um, but then there's other Days when you're just like, oh man, there's so much more work to do So I I guess maybe it's just COVID too. Everyone sort of feels like that during this time um, but uh It's been good. Like I do like when I'm invited for ceremonies Um and Darian and I have gone to the residential school and done a smudge. So that was really good to Do you want to speak to anything Darian? For myself like it's just at the back of my mind that Um, there's so much work to be done. Um, that's what keeps me going um, I'm really Um, thankful for the opportunity to um be a part of this project because it Aligns with a lot of how I can help Reconciliation in my own capacity like like like I said before Um, I have a background my minor is anthropology. So I have a bit of training and a couple courses with different anthropologists and I think, um If We're speaking candidly There is those bad days where we're I am overwhelmed with sadness and one of those days was when I went up there with Catherine and he's we examined some of she showed me some of the The The depressions and you just got a wonder is like what happened here. What what what is the land have to have to To tell us and there's a story behind it And to believe the stories of the survivors and that they're not survivors. They're um real experiences and just understanding that We're in a position to honor and respectfully guide the the project to kind of um To read into how things happened and to get the truth and that's what we're after is The truth that isn't told and the truth that isn't that's forgotten and a lot of this research Kind of opens the door to finding out what what's in store Yeah, and maybe I could like end it on a positive note And like I know daryon and I have said collaboration like every other word but it really It just means that we're not doing this work in isolation and then we're like as a team Like even um kim figura helped us make this presentation So we just we all have these different skills and we're all working to the same goal And we're able to help each other in the ways Is that we can um, so yeah, and I I know that like we we mentioned like our university partners, but we have Um worked with the united church here locally too, and it's been a very good experience so Yeah, it's just really good when everyone can mobilize and get behind like here We're looking for missing children and people are like How can I help so it's always encouraging so just the thanks for to the community in general Yeah Thanks Thanks Catherine and both of you for those thoughts I actually was just going to follow up on that what you just said. I was curious about the um The church parties that you mentioned who ran the these two schools and whether they have engaged at all Whether you anticipate engaging with them and what do you anticipate that would look like? Um, obviously this is a church organizations here Many churches represented tonight, but specifically those right, um so, um I don't even know where to start this story But essentially we worked a lot with um craig miller at nox united church and we also worked with barb jardine um and together Who had this idea that we wanted to do a traveling photo exhibit and it was through their efforts um, yeah, I'm applying for grants and things like that and I'm working in partnership with sea valley to select the photos and things like that that, you know, all this awareness is starting to come around And so I'm very grateful that The united church has been really helpful And um, if I ever finish my phd, um, I can start being more active and do more More of these these projects that we need to get going. So yeah Anyways Thank you There I can go ahead go ahead. Nice. Gary. Yeah, um, I'm robert living in winnipeg I just wanted to put this in a little bit larger context um Speaking for people whose ancestors came from out another place And are buried elsewhere But find ourselves living here um Very grateful for this work that you're doing very grateful the stories. I mean these are very painful stories. They're sad stories um, but because because of the strength of the heart in the stories The strength of the spirit in the stories For me connect us who have come from away Connect us to the people who have always been here And equally importantly or perhaps even more importantly connect us to the land And so where where any person where any especially any child Is interred in the earth that that land is sacred And it can remind us that that all of land is sacred And it helps us to realize that wherever we go here and nice to see our my friends in in kanora tommy and And Kathy because I went to that cemetery But I was also where I taught and I spoke in a school once it's poor Great forest in kanara and said, you know, you have your names for the bays and And places around here, but every place that you walk around here And that's the same wherever we go. Every place has been named by the people who were here before um The people the people have imprinted themselves On this land for generations and for thousands of years And for me, that's very helpful. It helps it helps me connect with the need to to honor The spirit in the land to honor the spirit of the people Who protected this land and who welcomed Us from away to to to live here with with them And that's important for me. It's important for us as outsiders. I think to to to be motivated to join with indigenous people Who are here before to join with them in this honoring and in the in protecting Land, which is sacred. So thank you very much for all of you who have shared these stories It's very important work And it's I just want to say of course, it's for the families Of course, it's for the indigenous people, but it is it is work. That's for all of us. It's important for all of us So thank you Thank you Thank you And we're nearing the end of the time, but it was a suggestion. I think it's a really nice idea that we Take just a few minutes just a minute to be in silence as we remember Those whose lives were passed. So if we would people would be willing to do that that would be wonderful And then I'll turn it back over to uh to breathe after that Yeah, thank you so much. Um Yeah, for all of this and for all of your work and and for the care Um that you put into your work and this presentation and engaging it and uh, it's really meaningful. So thank you so much um Yeah, it's hard to transition for sure Um, yeah, we appreciate everyone has come today. We already talked a little bit about next week's uh session with elder marge about uh, indigenous youth suicides and future plans for uh healing centers. So we are uh grateful and thankful and honored To have her share next week. These are such important. All of these are so important um, so we do welcome everyone to Um, come back. It's the same zoom link that you had this time. Um, same time. So next thursday at 6 30 we would love to see As many here as possible for that and Yeah, I invite uh Marge to give us a Uh closing and a blessing if you're If that's okay, um, I think it's yeah, it feels really important to End on that note for sure Yes, I just wanted to um Share some comments You know, this is a hard topic And I really appreciate the work that the karen and darien and the group that are Working together to try and bring some comfort and to to those families of the Students who attended residential school To those who were lost Those who Don't know where their families Members are buried And it's a tragedy really And i'm thankful they were able to share and bring a little bit of Knowing about what happened in these schools To people in this presentation audience I thank them for their compassion And I think they get a lot of um energy From the work they do in a helping manner so that It does not uh I wouldn't know if that would bother would be the the right word But it does not sadden them as much as other people who hear know of this Dark spot and candidates history regarding residential schools But they have a youthful energy and I think they rely on that to go forward and you know, and we prayed for them blessed Catherine and the work that she does that she would be able to go forward and Do the things that she has to do to help our people And the students that were in those schools. So She walks with a lot of blessings from Our gatherings that we had we still have every year in brandon And darien now that I know he's involved in this project He certainly will be in my prayers also and those who are part of it There's a lot of work that still needs to be done. However, it turns out best for everybody, but In the spirit of reconciliation, I think many more people are willing to offer assistance In the work that's being done and I certainly appreciate that. I know I've worked with Craig reverend craig meller from an auction at a church in brandon They do a presentation about the school to have a traveling exhibition on photos and stories And they've brought a lot of knowledge into the area because even people who lived in brandon Swore that they did not know there was a residential school right there in grand valley So I appreciate All the work that's been done To get this message out to people about what happened in the past What's being done to help our people now to go forward In a good way to take care of those Raves that are there and I appreciate the robert. I believe it was that spoke about The earth being sacred it certainly is we come from the earth and we return to the earth and we Know that that's a blessing when In jima koth Our grandmother or mother earth received some back into herself And it's a journey that's made by each spirit to return to that sacred place that's been created for us that many people know as heaven and No matter what's happened. We have that comfort that they're with creator god and uh, we certainly I certainly appreciate the work that's being done and I uh wanted to uh, let everybody know that it's uh, good that you took part and You know what has happened. You have a bit of knowledge to go forward now And I'd like to ask for a blessing In my language Before we close Yeah Oh I ask for blessing tonight lord on each and everyone that was a part of this presentation Give them peace. Give them a blessing in their mind They will not be in sorrow, but they will remember that all souls go to ever and that The work here will continue to a good end lord You bless each and everyone that is working together To bring about something good out of this I pray in jesus name. Amen. We watch. We don't go us Have a good evening everybody